Watch our ten part series books that shaped america starting monday september 18th at 9 p. M. Eastern on cspan, cspan l, free mobile video out or online at cspan. Org. Since 1911 we vacate and interpret the John Marshall his life and legacy. We are grateful to the many descendents who have had over the years paintings, books, tableware and personal items. These objects bring along the life and demonstrate much to the magic activities of the inside tousled in the guest who visited. There are no artifacts that better define marshalls career than the robe that he wore for his 30 34 your tenure as chif justice of the United StatesSupreme Court. The room is cured for a generation of descendents before finding its way to our collection. The rope is a witness object and if roads could talk, what a story this one could share. John marshall wore this rope as he i presided over 34 years of Supreme Court cases during which time the Supreme Court was elevated to an equal branch of the federal government. And today is simple black robe is a recognizable icon of the american judicial system. And as our spirited collection put it this iconic image of the american giant has been carried on by everyone sent chief justice john roberts. Stories from its construction and tailoring traveling to raleigh as marshall wrote the circuit from the days hearings arguments before the court, cases like marbury v. Madison, which is perhaps marshalls most significant president judicial review. Asserting the court power and authority to interpret the u. S. Constitution. And stories of activities like hanging inside of the u. S. Capitol. Along with ropes of the other justices, to the loving care received over the years by family members and preservation virginia staff. And so to quote our ceo, this object is the story of the early years of the court, and represents the strength of the experiment in american democracy. We were able to successfully conserve this icon of our nation because the people like you, and many of you are joining us today your contribution to save the rope campaign have ensured that the road has been stabilized environmental factors are controlled to slow future deterioration, so thank you. Now our work leads to the next day so we are providing ongoing education both physically and digitally. So we welcome you to learn more by visiting our website. Now with my honor to introduce you to preservation virginia has collection dont hold it against her because she cried with a bachelors degree from university of virginia and she earned her masters degree in american material culture. She joined preservation virginia at the very end of 2019 from the cincinnati art museum. And since that time she has let our Historic Site to some of the most unusual times as she simultaneously learned and managed our collection to the pandemic. So with that, i will turn it over to you. Thank you. Its been an amazing year with some change now, so i am so happy that you guys enjoyed yesterday. This robe was one of the first projects we launched into when it started and it has been brilliant to watch it come to fruition. Im going to share my screen, sometimes it takes just a second so bear with me. All right. There we go. All right. Malcolm preservation virginia has cared for John Marshalls judicial robe for 108 years now its 108 years as a core object in our collection, 108 years of frequent display, and 108 years of unintentional damage from caring about this fragile garment so much. So why do we care . By three indicated an exceptionals care after school so like howard, a silk survivor. Before i pass inside to howard for a full explanation of how he accomplished that feat, its worth considering the question and looking at the history of the robe. The story that has been repeated throughout the 20th century when marshall assumed his role as chief justice in 1801, the justices wore brightly colored robes. Marshall was in the practice of wearing a simple black robe promoting a sense of impartiality, and this became the image of the american judge that lives on today. Marshalls robe, this robe, is the iconic route of that tradition. Like many good stories, its a bit more complicated than that. In two weeks time on may 19th i encourage you to join us for our next webinar will feature so hello. The associate curator of the Supreme Court and is just published a groundbreaking article on the topic of how judicial robes changed in time. Is been workinged on this for or 20 years and it calls into question a lot of the assumptions that we made about the Supreme Court in those early formative public years so please dont miss the next webinar in may 19. I dont want to steal matthews vendor so suffice to say, the shift from colorful to black robes is probably less about symbolism and more about good oldfashioned practicality. The first chief justice, john jacob initiated a very elaborate design for the Supreme Court justices robes and did a show here in this portrait by Gilbert Stuart as well as his surviving robe which is at the smithsonian and this is the oldest surviving judicial robe. Ours is one of thero very few tt doesnt survive. This is described as partlyt covered and that is not party, that is partly colored. Th as justices voted off, including jacob it was difficult to match these rather unique garments here that is easy to procure and to achieve a sense of uniformity. Probably not a smart move that we a lithic opera happened by the time that marshall took the helm of the court in 1801. Its not like black robes didnt already exist. They had been used in england especially in lower courts andth by lawyers. In the United States some late teen and 18th centuries judges cant dark robes on the benchmark marshall was a student of in a portrait at the top left, was a prominent virginia lawyer and statesman. We know he favored the black robe look better in 1772 he ordered from merchant john norton andnd left quote a robe such as one by the house of commons but better than the one i had for mr. Child which indeed was a scandalous. I could i forget what was a scandalous about the first robe. But a black robe is customarily worn by the court and hopefully it goes, scandalous choice. And i havent been down the exact moment whenhe marshall starts getting credit for bringing the black robe into our national iconography paid by the suspect was an early 20th century to perhaps around 1901 of the celebration of his appointments chief justice, inspired newspaper articles and speeches and dinner parties like this one here that was held in cleveland, the program from it. So regardless of its veracity, the iconic of the marshall robe has taken on a life of its own. These are just a few clicks of the Supreme Court justices pick the power and symbolism in the story, after all, marshall did define the powersm of the court. For example, justices lived together in boarding houses and they mostly issued unanimous ruling spirit so whether or not he instigated the use of black robes, is totally in keeping with his approach to jurisprudence. So turning from the myth of the object lets look at the object itself. Marshall may affect mores than one robe over the course of his 34 year term on the court but this is the only one that survived and theres nothing that really points to a particular date within those 34 years in terms of construction or materials. Of the only unusual aspect of the design are the sleeves, the pleats on the reverse rather than the front which what you would expect on a rope with contemporary did. With not this was a mistake by the original baker its clear it didnt bother marshall as robe shows signs of use and do the best we can tell no attempts to mend that the subject perhaps it was a personal preference, we just dont know. And as to the the resident around the collar, they underscore the fact that this is it was present on historic and normal moment marshall nominated five different president s on nine occasions in the past often noted his black robe up with their peer he dominated the portraits s one which is my favorite by Chester Harding that shows its full glory. And, of course, there were the cases. This robe was in marbury v. Madison but also marshalls repeater denial of africanamerican freedom. We dont know exactly where the robe with after John Marshall died in 1835, but it is likely pass to his daughter Mary Marshall harvey who inherited most of his richmond property. Although she owned the John Marshall house which is marked in green on the map she and her household lived a few blocks away down briefly at marked in red. The rope was probably stored at that location for a period of time. The next time we have ya confirmed sighting of the rope is 1888. Andy fischer harvey one of marys daughters, so one of John Marshalls granddaughters, mowed the rope to the virginia agricultural chemical agricultural exhibition. An they had a relics and antiquities selection. By 1892 amy and her sister emily were back at the John Marshall house living there. For years that denigrated o other families but they were back in the family residence peter and one of the nephews, doctor norton mason recalled that the rope was tucked away in a box in the cabinet in the parler this is a picture of the parler at about 1890, and we interpret this as the small dining room, family dining space. And in the far back when you see a couple doors to think thats a cabinet he is referring to, so if you can see with xray vision through those doors thats where the road is. So doctor mason recalled how his mother, he was 12 at the time, drapes this robe over him and has pranced around the house. Now, with the Marshall House was transferred to the stewardship of the association for the preservation of urgent antiquities now known as preservation virginia in 1911 and in 1913 the house open to the public. On thetr Opening Weekend the str attraction was of the robe on loan from the sisters. When emily died in 1920 the rope became part of our permanent collection. Since that time the robe has been extensively exhibited and extensively conserved. One major Conservation Campaign took place in 1962 which took over 600 hours. Now, remember the littleon boys prancing around the house in 1892, while on vacation in this 1962 Conservation Campaign, he came back to the house and he put the robe on again. It was not the original. The rope has been exhibited in various spots around the Marshall House bear generally a shown on a mannequin and have traveled for exhibition clean this one at this facility in 1967. For many years the display, exposure to light and the stress on the fibers and the hanging has all compounded the fragility of this remarkable object since 2005, about 16 years, its been off of you, only been pulled out for special events and foril visitors. Showing the robe to associate Justice Sonia sotomayor or. Ev in 2019 we started in partnership a pap with the John Marshall center for constitutional history and civics to save the robe campaign to help support the conservation of this object. Constitutional civics to save the robe campaign to support the conservation of this object. Thanks to the daughters of this project in the works by Howard Sutcliffe this robe can be safely and responsibly share. Its my honor to pass it on to jen who will now thank you. There are a lot of photos in there that i dont think i have ever seen. [laughter] thank you so much. Alll right. So nowlo its my pleasure to introduceav howard sutt cliff. Is director of [inaudible] and conservation but has a private practice in alabama. Howard has previously worked as the head conservator at the Detroit Institute of arts and in the textile conservation studios atnd the Philadelphia Museum of art and American Textile museum in the u. S. And at the National Trust and National Museum [inaudible] he is a professional member of the American Institute for conservationto of historic and artistic works and is the current board member of the north American Textile conservation conference and chair for the forthcoming 20221 meeting in nashville, tennessee. Finish howard received a bachelors in design and constructive textiles with honors from college of arts, university of scotland. He was given a first graduate diploma in textile with credits from the textile Preservation Center in affiliation with the institute of art and at the university of [inaudible] and he received a masters of the arts in museum and gallery management with merit,ty university of City University of london. So, howard, its an honor to have you join us. Welcome and thank you so much. And now ill turn it over to you to. Okay. Well, thank you, janet. That all makes me sound really old, all that stuff. But let me share my screen. Here we go. And then we will hit that. So hopefully you can all i now see that. Thank you, janet. Yeah, i have not seen those photos either, and it was reay interesting to see the photo of Andrew Jacksons inauguration, because i also worked on some artifacts from that at the Tennessee State meum. So its kind of interesting and and Andrew Jacksons top hat were at the same spot at the same time. Very cool. So, well, my involvement in this project goes back to january of 2019 which seems a very long time ago now. I moved up to richmond to basically spend a morning at the Marshall House examining [inaudible] and just really kind of getting to grips with the current condition. I dont think anyone had seen it for quite a while. It had been boxed up and, which is reluctant to take it out, so i spent a morning documenting its current condition, and after that i wrote up a treatment of sorts for preservation virginia. That outlined the condition and then it also goes through what i suggest for the treatment step by step and [inaudible] estimates. As ya mentioned, there was a period of fund raising, and we have quite a few dates on the calendar to drive up to richmond to come and various world events coming, and i eventually made it up there in mid june to collect the robe and then bring it back down to my studio in raleigh. Ev and thats on. So these two photos basically show the robe front and back with. Front on the left and right on the back before conservation. And basicallyically just basically, a quick description. Its a very simple two panels on the front and obviously on the front and black of each sleeve. The robe is made from a black silk saw teen, and saw teen is [inaudible] the warps are very fine. Theyre much finer than the [inaudible] is a and they are much finer than the wifes in this case and its a loom and each panel of fabric is about 2 feet wide. The panels are stitched together along the edges and they are drawn together at the top. This is a photo that you will see a little bit later on but this is after conservation but it shows you very clearly those panels and so you have the two in the center back the two differently sized small side panels and in the front panels and it is really interesting that the construction of the robe is a little bit not exact i think would be a polite term. You can see where the center back does not line up. There is a lot of excess material so i think the thought is whoever constructed these was maybe working from a description and maybe was not the most talented of seamstresses and obviously did you then have issued this leaves being backed up front as well. But all that fabric there is a lot of fabric there is brought together around the oak with really is fleecing. Its amazing how they have done all this fabric together to fit around the neck and you can see from these two photos that it is very very finally done. Im not sure if you can see on the righthand image the top pleading pleating and the sleeve back there. We want to see that slides to you do get a good view of that. Those are just my soap talk plates held in place using twine silk rap cord and i think those pieces are about 2 inches long each and then theres the lovely silk wrapped a wooden button at the end of each of those. In this photo you can start to see the splits and the condition issues at the robe has. There were some interesting other little construction things going on particularly around the neckline. There had been a panel added almost like a caller that was obviously done fairly early on. It was probably contemporary to John Marshall in the creation of robes but its added on almost asymmetric so it sits like a caller on one side and then it comes down as an overlay. That sets up the neckline and makes the way that the robe lies on the body a little bit strange. I dont know whether that was done because he wasnt happy with the neckline or it got damaged. There are a number of Different Reasons why that could have been done but it was definitely added temporary can dish in her repair typical of the 1800s. So lets move on and here are a few photos of the robe. Which really shows some of the condition issues that it has. There are a lot of conditions that contributed to its degradation. Its a 220yearold objects so it has age going against it and considering it is 220 years old its amazing there so much of it but first of all its made from silk which during and certainly during this time the would have been subjected to wilting. Soak is sold by the weight at this point so when you start off with the little silk cocoon those of oil down and they are boiled down to release and collect the filament thread so during that process a little bit of gum is lost in the gum is quite heavy so to counteract that the dealers would then soak those threads in a heavy metal solution to impart the none of those chemicals are great for its preservation itself so they contribute to the general degradation. You also have the structure going against it because you have certainly with this one you have six, seven actually threads crossing over every thread so its a little uneven. Its worth threads are much finer so you have that difference in weight and you have all those works on the surface that could be easily abraded so they are quite easily damaged. You also have the fact that it is dyed a lack so at this time its possible that they used iron gold guide which could have been incredibly expensive and i think its probably in more likely that it was dyed using none of those things are great for the preservation of the robe itself and then generally with it just being silk, silk of all the natural fibers silk is very susceptible to environmental damage such as uv lights and fluctuations in relative humidity and temperature. The fibers can undergo a process called acid hydrolysis in the presence of uv so they basically just start to break down and become more brittle and you will see the splits and breaks start to fall which you can see on this photo. What is happening in the center they are is a lot of breaks in the warp threads and you can see the floats and again you can see that in the photograph on the screen as well. Also as leah mentioned there is going to be mechanical dame. All obviously there is contact with sweat and things on the body at that time some none of those would have helped it also just wear and tear three use. There was damage along the hemline from maybe dragging on the ground and the cuffs may be from writing and resting on the probe in the long days of court. So those are very nice indicators of use and things that we want to try to preserve to show it was an object that has received heavy use. And then another contributing factor to the damage that the robe received is also the fact that it has been displayed in the past and quite a lot actually so hanging it up and having it on vertical display on mannequins probably hasnt helped over the years especially the weights hanging. Its not particularly well supported on the mannequin and lets move on. One of the major things that really i had to deal with was the fact that the robe has been subject to a lot of frustration and conservation work in the past and so in these two slides you can see the interior on the left front with numerous different campaigns of stitching that have been done there so you have patches and black crippling patches and areas where it is just adds to itself and you have black patches there as well. And here are some more photos along those lines. On the left you can see a small repair that was made using silk and another patch thats been added on top of that to reinforce that in there were quite a few of those and then in the top left photo you can just see the very intense stitching that the robe underwent during the 1962 restoration. Some of those areas have 16 rows of stitching per inch. Its very very intense. So really the process to take a sidebar here another part of the project was to create three replica robes. The whole process really started with mapping the robe, really understanding its construction and working that all out. For the robe reconstruction part of the project i worked with my friend ryan whom you see there in the red and ryan is the curator of the Alabama Department of history and montgomery and she is a costume maker. That is not my forte so was the Natural Choice to recruit ryan to help me with that. You can see its been an eightmonth process and lots of meetings and looking at samples and you can see one sample their. And obviously we had discussions of what to replicate and whatnot to replicate and so we replicated the neckline contemporary to the early 1800s and so ryan pretty much made a complete trial run with the very fetching shade of lou polyester before launching into the expensive black silk that the replica is made of. So in addition to all of that i had worked with a lady in maryland before on another project where needed reproduction and it was button works in maryland at may the reproduction buttons for the replica is and then we were having a hard time trying to find the replica parade. Its not like you dont walk into fabrics and find this stuff so eventually one of my very good friends in the uk is at textile conservator and she came into conservation from a background in theater costuming and design and she really wasnt doing much last year because of the pandemic because all the museums in the uk pretty much closed and are still closed. She sat at home kind of twiddling her thumbs and i was like i have this great project for you so she was able to make the production of the camp braids and ship them across. The replica that been a global affair and the replica silk came from anil in the uk as well. So the actual conservation process and we will kind of work through some of these photos. The first thing that i started out doing was surface painting using lower powered construction and thats a fancy way of saying that i vacuumed it. Using a very fancy vacuum so everything was surface cleaned and i was also able to capture all the dirt and silk fibers they came off during cleaning which is something that is not super useful in this case but its done a lot certainly with the archaeological textiles because you look at soils and its a Tipping Point where textiles come from if their documentation is not great. Its also done a lot with the American Civil War pieces because you can pinpoint particular battlefields looking at the grass seeds or pollen that you find as well. So once surface cleaning have big done i did a thorough a tidy wish and of the previous repairs and really figured out what was safe to keep and the criteria all doing good thing that they were intended it to stop further damage. Some were more easily dealt with than others. All of that incredibly intense stitching from the 1960s was very stable and removing any of that would have done a lot more damage so most of that stayed. A lot of the patches, if the stitches were large i was able to trim them down which are some of the brown patches there and the patches along the hemline were all clunky so i was able to remove those as well. So there was a lot of cutting and clipping and pulling threads out for many days. And then after that the robe was humidified to something we do just to impart some water vapor into the fibers just improve their condition and with this the robe is nice and flat so you can use goretex sheeting. Goretex from winter coats a semi permeable membrane. You lay the dry side against the textile and the moisture slowly wakes into the fabric underneath into itself so its a very controlled process. It was going from panel to panel doing this we can see on the right hand of the screen there once each panel was humidified i was able to greenlight everything. Ready for the structural support. The whole world basically rather than doing little patches here and there that had begun in the past each of the panels were fully aligned using a crepe ginza from a Conservation Company in the uk. Here you can see we just laid it out measuring things. You dont really need those in place. So those panels were pinned in place on the reverse just to hold everything and then the robe was turned over and you can see there on the right hand of the screen i stitched in gridlines basically that i was then able to follow for the actual supports stitching. If you look in the bottom right of that image on the right you can see that darker area which is one of those 1960s repairs thats just its amazing. The time that it took to do all of that is insane but its so heavily stitched. Here i am using these new stitches tote so to support all the damage i used lines of lathrop catching in the threads that i used for silk threads pulled from the organza. You go from the top to the bottom and then you come back up and patched those threads down a centimeter or so. Basically you are pretty much doing this over all of the areas of damage certainly and then in between those lines i used another, baggert reverse running ditch just to hold the lining in place. So here these are photos of aligning the fabrics along the yoke and then repeating the process of stitching the damage along the sleeves there. And there we have the robe and you can see how big it is. My tables are about 8 inches wide so its quite a large object and definitely filled the studio. Here you can see the support materials that i hadnt trimmed down yet. And then there we have the robe front after treatment and here we have that interior shot again so most of the interior was completely lined and the sleeves as well. I did leave the panel there that you can see on the lefthand side. There was actually an area that was in Good Condition so didnt need any conservation work. I left that there so in the future researchers and scholars came to see the fabric. Without having to undo any conservation work. Here is the back of the robe after conservation. In the last stage of the treatment is dealing with the display. Here i am using a very thin plastic tracing around the edge of the robe to make basically the display. We decided to display the robe clad a little bit splayed out and carried out of bed for a little bit of latte. The pads are made from several layers of polyester batting covered in needle felt and a black cotton jersey so the main body as you can see there. You can see in the background a bunch of long black sausages so there were a lot of pads used to fill the robe and then we lowered it into a case and with the case closed. That brings us to the end our presentation so i will stop sharing and go back to jen for questions. Thank you howard. That was a wonderful presentation and i have to say for everybody listening howard was such a champ working with us. When he came to install the robe we put into the ringer. We had photographers and he had to do interviews. Andy worked with us every step of the way to make sure it was safe and it was done just exactly how should have been and is looking at doing a webinar with us. Its been an absolute pleasure working with you. So, we will get down to some questions and one of the most commonly asked question is do we know where the silk satin fabric was originally made . I think at that time it was probably from the far east and probably from china. I dont know where it would then died. I think it may have been died in china. Its more than likely to have been died at the point of where was woven in europe so at that point it was coming out of central america. The nation of belize was with the love of plantations there so its likely that you have this meeting and the Raw Materials coming together. France was a big silk center and also lied in the london and the northwestern uk and that trade was fairly heavy between the fledgling United States and the uk so i suspect it was probably british but certainly materials would have come from china. Thats fascinating. Japan wasnt open at that point. So does that mean the robe was likely construct did in europe as well do you have any idea . I think it was probably done in the United States. Leaning that way as well in part a cousin of some of the awkward construction techniques that were used. London had if we go back to 1772 through john norton that are from england there were people who were specialists in that trade and theres a wonderful trade card that features all of these images so i feel like whoever was making this in the United States was maybe not as familiar with the inscription. Beyond that we dont really know. The original ones maybe matt will talk more about in terms of where they came from. Its a very colorful robes so i wont spoil all of that. Actually some of the later im american pieces that i worked on in detroit which has a collection so you have instances of europeanstyle coats that were made by native makers here used to working with hides and things like that and creating trade blankets and not as familiar with the materials so there was some like really funky construction methods so its interesting. It may be that they were just working from a description or an great image where you only see one side of something and you are left to deal with the rest of it by your own imagination. Its a interesting to look at the closeup of john j. s and you do see that same stitching style that you see in marshalls work. It looks like we have a couple of questions. Howard you did an amazing job and its going to mean more conservation in the future so what do you expect the next round of conservation will focus on . Well, its kind of interesting. One of the main ethos of conservation is trying to make things as reversible as possible so this constant improvement in techniques and materials and certainly when i look back at the conservation and the description what of what was done in 1962 and they added formaldehyde and certainly things like its we wouldnt even think about doing things like that today but hopefully this latest round of conservation will last for a long time. I think a lot of it will eat preventive conservation and not moving it to much and making sure it is well supported and well housed Going Forward, what it is. I really dont know. I think the materials being used this time around will last for a long time so there is going to continue to be a breakdown of the regional silk just during the install. Every time you move it there or silk fibers that break off and litter the case. We had the vacuum everything out very carefully before we close the case. I think Going Forward the main problem will be the care of handling and just making sure that its as stable as possible. Kind of delaying the inevitable and hopefully delaying it for a very long time. We designed a special piece for the robe and howard can you talk about some of the features of the case that will allow the road to be preserved . Im happy to jump in on that. As was mentioned we wanted to make sure that it could lay flat as putting it on the mannequin and hanging it was putting a lot of pressure on it so that was part of the reason why the case is very large. Its about 6 feet by 7 feet and dominates the gallery. Part of it scale is those allowing it to be spread out in not lay on itself and part of it is the insert and that helps relieve pressure on the fabric itself and everything in there is conservation approved. We are always learning new things about materials but at this moment it is topoftheline and its also sealed from the outside so you arent getting a lot of exchange with air in the room which keeps out pollutants and it also helps us keep stable temperature and humidity. There is in desiccant better in a Department Said the case that help us regulate the humidity level. The class itself is extraordinarily thick and is tempered and has uv protection built into it and light is one of the greatest threats to textiles and something we pay a lot of attention to when we designed this case so there is motion activated lighting inside of the case. L. E. D. Your world we call foot candles is at a low light level and through all of those things and through keeping the room itself at stable temperature and stable humidity and keeping the light out we are doing everything we can to make sure that its a happy, happy rhodes. Was or anything else howard that you can think of . Thats about the extent of it, yeah. C this question is for howard. What part of the conservation process was the most difficult . You know theres always that beginning part like oh im working on this 220 or project that is a oneoff kind of thing so what you get is an advanced project and happens with every project. Its formulating what you are going to do and then went to figure out that is going to work you can relax and get into it but for this it was great because you have large areas of robe and it was nice and flat and that was easy to deal with. Once youre getting towards the top and you are dealing with splits and pleads that are very very crispy those are more difficult to deal with. Once you have done one or two you have to get ready for the next 200 that you have to to do. So he yeah its tiptoeing into the project is the scariest scariest bit and then you settle down but uis have in the back of your mind the importance of what you are working on and you have to keep pushing that away. Weekend es on cspan2 are an intellectual feast. Every saturday American History tv documents americas story. And on sunday booktv brings you the latest in nonfiction books and authors. Funding for cspan2 comes from these Television Companies and more, including cox. This syndrome is extremely rare. 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