Transcripts For CSPAN2 Megan 20240704

Starting in the 1970s and the causes behind it. Watch book tv every weekend on cspan2 find a full schedule on your program but watch online anytime at booktv. Org. Weekends on cspan2 are an intellectual feast. Every saturday American History tv documents americas story and on sundays booktv brings you the latest in nonfiction books and authors. Funding for cspan2 comes from these Television Companies and more including charter communication. Charter is proud to be recognized on the best internet providers. We are just getting started. Building wondered thousand miles of new infrastructure to reach those who need it most. Charter communications along with these Television Companies support cspan2 as a public service. Quickly the evening everyone. My name is jasmine on behalf of Harvard Bookstore im so excited to welcome you to our event with megan buskey presenting who her new book ukraine is not dead yet. Family story of xl return joining conversation by emily channelljustice. Its in full swing here at Harvard Bookstore you can find a full event scheduled harvard. Com events we can also sign up for a newsletter. Tonights event will conclude with time for your questions after which we will have a book signing here at this table. To ask a question just raise your hand or in the q a portion of our speakers will come to you. Cspan2 b is filming our vents and anklet including q and if you ask a question please wait for the microphone to reach you before you asked the question. And if you have not already confined a copy of ukraine is not dead yet at the register in the next room. Thank you for continuing to mask as we try to keep our community safer. Just a reminder to please silence your cell phone for the duration of this event. As always thank you for buying books from Harvard Bookstore your purchase support events like this and help ensure the future of the local independent bookstore. Now im so pleased introduced tonight speaker. Megan buskey is a nonfiction writer who contributed to outlet such as the near times book review, the atlantic, the new republic, npr all things considered. She is a former fulbright fellow to ukraine is been writing about the country for two decades. Shes joining conversation by emily channelljustice director of the contemporary Ukraine Program at the Ukrainian Research institute at harvard university. Shes been doing research in ukraine since 2012 is the author of without, Organization Political activism in ukraine. Tonight theyre here to discuss ukraine is not dead yet. A family story of exile in return. In this work megan buskey returns her family home and in ukraine to undercover and document her familys past following the passing of her grandmother. Author writes ukraine is not dead yet is a model of both the power and historical memoirs. To improve our collection of understanding of the past while broadening our knowledge of ourselves and our future. We are so excited to host this event here at Harvard Bookstore today. Please join me in welcoming megan buskey and emily channelljustice. [applause] thank you so much for having me here. Very exciting to be back in boston. I am going to begin with a reading from the text. Im actually going to start from the epilogue which is kind of a strange thing to read from for a book launch. Im very conscious of the fact we are now at the moment we are recognizing and remembering the anniversary of russias fullscale invasion of ukraine. Most of this book was written before the invasion i finished a draft a few days before the invasion started. Prize doing the writing is think about the things i was writing that is things that happened in the past. Things settled almost fascinating to me in part because they seem so distant. The events of the past year have shown that was not the way to think about those events. Theres a number of things that happened to my family over the past century that continued to be at play today. So an acknowledgment of that moment i want to read this portion which has to do with the state of my cousin natalia. I dont think theres much you need to know to felt anchored in this section except in an italian and i are First Cousins and we have the same grandmother. All right, so a few months after the war began i flew to italy to see my cousin natalia who had left ukraine with her two adolescent daughters when the war started. On many counts in sight and the girls were lucky. They went to italy because i had a family connection. Years earlier the mother of natalias husband married an italian man. As soon as the war broke out natalias inlaws church and bring the girls in the city in western ukraine where they lived and come live with them in a town outside bologna. I rolled into town a bright spring morning one of the regional rails. Natalia and on yet read the statement to greet me there is no greater marker of the passage of time than on hook 14 was a foot taller than when i had last seen her a few years earlier. The town we were staying and was full of italian charm. Lush flowers tumbling from hanging baskets. But as a barkley train station it was ukraine that loomed. I knew the just natalia and the girls but had not bothered them for details busy people. As we settled into their apartment on the Central Street natalia told me the full story. Like most ukrainians didnt tell you it had considered a russian invasion u wor a trucking gig and the eu abandon his job and rushed back to his family. He urged outside to leave y tha point marshall had been impose men under 60 were barred from leav the country. She was a patriot had no desire to abandon her homeland in this hour of need. She was also loath to be separated from their he was her son was over 18 was also required to remain in ukraine natalias mother my aunt had turned 80 the previous summer like many older people categorically re to environment i unpredictabl and t w not a good place for kids. The fi weeke after the invasio natalia agreed to kick off the situation at the train station a travel hub closest to y then have been widely reported the station was overrun with what would be refug that ties suspected them not be able to board a train it would just come back. So she and the girls pack small backpacks with food and documents, knowing people been standing in closer pack orders for hours to board trains they were diapers. When natalia and the girls arrived at the station is teeming with people t to fle they likely got into a Side Entrance that allowed them to bypass the bulk of the crowd quickly found themselves across the Railway Tracks they ran toward a group of meta military fatigues were knocking on the door of a train about to depart, turned away the men disperse the family remained on the platform uncertain what to do next. Then the door opened natalia in the girls went on board with the moments upon stepping onto the train the door closed behind them the will started to churn. They had made it, they barely had a chance to say goodbye. The train was moving but going where . This was the question natalia focused on sheets tried to steady herself none of people around them had an idea. All anyone new is the train was going west. Eventually natalia found a conductor, where we going she aske him . Than the others. In comparison t many other ukrainian refuge natalia and the gi trave in relative cart whic norma sat for. Once across the board or into e food, water about 20 hours after they left they got off the train somewhere help and heard the girls intoicr waiting taxes she asked the driver to take them to the nearest airport. That tu not sure in pronouncing flight to bologna that was leaving in a few hours when she tried to buy the ticket the transaction would not go through perhaps because of Cyber Attacks on the ukrainian banks rumors of such disruptions that day. She told me as part of the story i thought of her grandmother in a panic when she had to make sense of newarks multiple airports from that moment she arrived with her mom and olga from the soviet union. Fiftysix years later heres her granddaughter also momentarily stymied while at an airport in a foreign country with her two youngest children try to outrun moscows reach. As the type consider what to do her phone rang. The color was a friend ukrainian you happen to live in warsaw its i told him what was going on. The friend offered to buy them the ticket. She sent with their documents the transaction went through. By 8 00 p. M. 28 hours after natalia and the girls left they had arrived started a chapter of their lives ending with a . And peacefully delete natalia and the girls were in the habit of counting their blessings. Unlike so many ukrainian refugees they had a place they could stay indefinitely in an area that was familiar to them. They had that means to cover their modest expenses the girls had plenty of experience with distance education due to the covered pandemic and aft two wee bre they resumed onlineth hd start trans taly and had sent them suitcases packed with clothes been able to bring with them when they left. It was a delight to be with natalia and the girls i was grateful after so much time apart we could enjoy each day as they flow together we went to differ groce stores to pick out dinne to help that summerins and it on he found online. Freight one date natalia walk me through some recent photos on her phone that showed roman on his motorcycle at the girls doing yoga stretches on the each, family gathered for olgas 13th birthday in dece giant plate and video and wrapping her mane and present a guitar are faced with a picture of diker the voices of my loved ones in the background melancholy wash iron because of covid have been so long since id seen them. I neatly would be heat again it is possible our future gathered to be carefree its nice the phone reminds me of this moment since i said contract in my thoughts a moment later she added but also hard. Forgot to italy and then back to cleveland picked up a watch of my grandmother my mother held onto a simple but pretty, played in rose gold my mother purchased it or my grandmother had purchased it in the soviet union possibly when shes trying to spend down her rubles before she flew to the United States should warn all of the time i thought natalia might like to have it. I gave it to her one afternoon after we finish lunch. Was his grandmothers she asked us and she pulled out the small julie back i cap did and i nodded, she really started to cry over and over for my arms around her. You can have a part of her with you now i said. Some of her strength that she said i dont how she did the words tumbling out i rubbed her back looked across the Kitchen Table it on and olga whose faces had grown somber. For a moment by imagining joined by my grandmother this little Italian Kitchen boat she say to us i wonder . What was and what she apart from years of hardship destruction and violence she had endured . The answer came to me immediately it was simple, live it. [applause] thank you megan. Thanks everyone for being here to celebrate the release of this book. Especially in a week that so important to any of us who have been paying attention to ukraine this past year end hopefully longer. Thank you also for that pass present a very important conversati perti que pas and present how they play ut fi lets offer people if not read the book for the people may be do not know that much about ukraine. Could you describe below but the draw of ukraine questioned what makes you want to go back its funnier that particular passage. At tthe small town of western ukraine their famous for this really discussing tasting wateru eterna basically its the places in ukraine ive been there i think five tim this question about the draw of your grade without thinking about that. That really made me smile where youre reading that passage. So, for people who do not have family in ukraine whats the drama keeps you going back . Click the things that got me too create a little different than the things that kept me going back. I grew up in an American Family in cleveland. I was very close to my grandmother was like a third parent in some respects. We observed all the traditional ukrainian holidays. We went to church all the time. It was really part of the fabric of my life growing up. Also my grandmother was a cousin today. Its very understandable in some way she was very responsible, very reliable, very loving. All of the ways you expect of a grandmother. She also had about her and the sense of tragedy. There is something about her clearly she had a difficult early life. That came out with things like are trying to cry when she talked about her experience growing up in ukraine and russia. For she was always attentive to how much things cost. Even now when im at the Grocery Store in the strawberries are 275 now wow. Amounts of food for us. Copious my mothe would be like she does not want us to starve and that doesnt make sense to an american growing up in the middle class suburbia middle class suburbia there is also a mystery wrappe interest as we have a very clos family in ukraine. So my mom, one of her sisters, her moth had been left behind her moth had been left behind in ukraine and my grandfather closeness that cannot be explained for easily but sometimes my mo, my grandmother gr greta try to collect our cloth eve so often the things we werent wearing a had outgrown and send them to uk i so later or lr be at my grandmothers house board trying to amuse myself and some by a come across a photograph i won my second cousins wearing my clothes look like me with blonde hair and blue and green eyes is a weird sense of weight . Who is this person that sort of me but not. As a really rich set of questions. That was why started going to ukraine in the first place when i was in college. When i went there i quickly realized how fastening place it was. This is a place thats trying to make s of itself in the aftermath of the failure of the soviet project. All of the countries of former soviet union to have such Big Questions facing themselves. Ukraine is the home of somata con aroun a language, run history, run have very highstakes people are real reall to rep their and so, so interesting to be able to go there and to start to learn to see whats unfolding in ukraine for the other thing i would say to his ukraine is such a deep rich culture and history of the thing you mentioned about the water. There is so much there its a big country with its own history its own culture. And once you start paying attention there is so much that attention there is so much that can be unfolded ukit really leads into my next question how you found the destroyed not only about megans family but also finding out more about the family thats not just in family lore and placing it within ukrainian history. So how did you come to put the pieces together the Family History . And especially were talking about long period of time of you working in ukraine. You talk on the book about the experience of the archive itself changing a lot over time. I think thats really interesting to hear more about. One of the things that made you want to keep digging for details especially when he started to find out there might be details you might not like that you learned about your family. And whether there any specific questions you ultimately never found answers to . Okay thats a lot. Remind me a final answer the questions. The impetus for this book was i had started going to ukraine when i was in college. I was really interested but did not start this project specifically until my grandmoth died about 10 years ago but i was really close to her eyes had done some interviews with her and i wanted to document her story and preserve it about the family who really care the messiah quickly really care the messiah quickly bal into a very ambitious consulting archiv acr sour which was super u impor theres a resources secti in this book which contain some of the scholarshi i used to try to imagine what the world had been like that my grandmother had looked in. Make from calling out those people i would not have been able to do this book without some of that work. I also went back and did a lot of interviews in ukraine with people who had known my grandmother people who knew the general enviro the archives were were partic importanthey h an iy espec that can be that riches is the stuff contained in the case files that were held by this secret police whats commonly known as the kgb and the nights asa goes by couple of other names. Now and in the past. But until the mid 2010 it was difficult to get access to this archives particularly if you are a general interested member of the public. You could do it but it was tough. But after the year of the revolution there became a vested interest in trying to make this archives as accessible as possible. It basically became in 2015 you could send in email and say hey do you have anything on this hou getey some basice information and they would reply to you. And a very reasonable amount of time. Usually like two weeks. They let you know what they found within a month they would hsend you a file i think it was one or two months i forget what was really predictable theyre super attentive, clear. Much better than my experience working with American Archives and you have no idea where it went and he would not hear back. I did get good stuff from American Archives as well. What i ended up getting was kgb case files on my family which was super super interesting. Theres interrogations of people, there are trial documents different biographical statements. Its really, really interesting with the fileske s continue hado take some up with a grain of salt some of that was obtained under duress. But it is also this remarkable record of that time and what people were experiencing. And so i found all of that to be very interesting. Although it sometimes very t difficult to your question which is that i did find a lot of world war ii. Ukraine was extremely extremely difficult, devastating. Ukraine and poland are part of e most devastated countries in world war ii that the region my grandmother was from was first occupied by the soviet union and the nazis germanies than soviet union again. There is an active ukrainian nationalist trying to fight those groups at variousus point. So its really, really bloodied and no one wasan spared. Aland so i was doing this archie at work i did come across informationha that showed membes of my family were complicit and various atrocities one could say. Both at a political level but at a personal level to be honest. And thats a little bit more difficult thing to describe. Its a little more than i want to talk about. We can talk a little bit more about that. Are there any other questions i didnt answer . Lets just jump to the question of inheritance thats the next question when you start to learn some of these details. You mentioned these crimes probably things we would now categorize as were crimes on behalf of thehe Ukrainian Nationalist Movement this is a very nuanced and you cited a lot of good academic sources about these topics. I think the book contextualizes them very well for the other part of the context is the inheritance that you talk about throughout the book. Its a physical resemblance, mannerisms, inherited names. How do you reckon that inheritance you have that something that draws you to ukraine in the first place with a finding out about some of these painful details and at any point did you question your connection to ukraine or your relationship with your family . Its a really good question and i havent really thought about in those terms until you pointed itth out. I think it was part of it was drawing me to the story was a real interest in trying to fill some of the silences that have been part of my Family History great. My grandmother was an extremely important person to me growing up. She had a big life and a lot going on. She talks about them something shed experience in the past there clear thing she didnt talk about my grandfather was someone who is never spoken about my grandmothers husband was also someone who is never spoken about this or both people i learned a lot more about through the course of this research. So i think as i did find out more i think it was important to me to be able to build a story that felt like nuanced and real and was not a myth some heroic story that was going to fill in this and blank that not did not feel real to me as a person in the world who sees the complexity of Human Behavior all the time i myself am a complex person capable of both good and bad. So there was kind of i knew the Broad Strokes of ukrainian history in this region and i knew the likelihood of collaboration with nazis or its extremely difficult and complex. But the likelihood people are going to be involved in things that looked in retrospect not that great. I knewd that. I was sort of prepared in that sense. So i think theres a way in which finding those details did not shock me some of but it did make me feel really sad. My grandmothers brother was a collaborator with the nazis and Ukrainian Police under the nazis which was a terrible thing to be involved in is part of what orchestrated the holocaust. Was not directly killing people in that capacity. I remember finding that, getting the document that demonstrated he had definitely been in the police. Feeling like such sadness for him. My grandmother never talks about the police for possible she did not know he was in the police. I could see that be the case he would want to protect your family. He would not tell them necessarily. I just felt the confirmation of that made me feel so sad for him. All the promise he had had early in his life was consumed under the banner of this was a marshaledtoward these horrible. I think its important to own that i think its important to talk about it. Its the movement in ukraine on telling these stories. One of the things to say about history inth ukraine is that its a process relatively new under the soviet union people could not talk about things. There was so much taboo the soviet state has a very specific interpretation of history that was totally false. People would not talk about things for fear of keeping their families safe not to incriminate themselves in a way they were not even aware of. And so it spent in the past 30 years people have started to feel openness. I made many other priorities i would say coming toov terms of e fall the soviet union the financial collapse that happened trying to figure out a political system that works. There has been a gradual process of developing a more nuanced history of ukraine. That has certainly been strengthened in the past five seven years in terms of much more holocaust remembrance. Much more discussion among the older generation about what their experiences were like more interest in documenting those stories. My hope is this book is a contribution toward that end of continuing to have that nuanced, honest discussion that is not so much but whatex about real peope experienced. Its related to what we just talked about the archives. Yes ukraine has been independent for 30 years but access to all the thingsut that happened while ukraine was for the soviet union has not been accessible to regular people up until it much more recently. This process about reckoning with ukraines past i cannot stress enough how actual and important it is. And how in my experience most ukrainians are very tapped into it too. They understand its a process of unfolding they and their family have a role in it. I think some things that you put really nicely. If youll indulge me let me quote the late megan puts us question at the end of the book is really so fantastic. She writes if theres something troubling afoot and ukrainian history i came to think it was not and its dark chapters which can be found in the history of any country. It was in the failure to recognize an account for them to find a way to tell a story about its past that included them. How can a country know itself unless it knew all of the things it had been . I think this resonates everywhere. It resonates in the u. S. We are reckoning with the role of slavery building the u. S. In the contemporary u. S. Has inherited racial institutions based on the past. Int a Bigger Picture question hw do you think we can all be more attentive to the stories part of history . What are the stories that need to be told on then how can we take our reckoning with the past and use it to look for Better Future . Are so much and just pointing out exactly what you said this is a very universal process. It is something thats not just like you crazy to do it we all need to do it its an evolving process for us all. There are always things time, politics, evolution shows us our blind spots all there time. Thisandchildren might read book about me and i cant believe she ate meat. What a terrible person how could she do that . Theres always a shifting sense of morays and the responsibility for all of us is to try to really listen and capture as much nuance as possible and talk about these things in as clear a way as possible in understanding way asan possible. Ukraine was really on its way towards that. When i think im curious what you think but i think it will complicate that endeavor so much. There isio so much emotion in ukraine right now in so much pain. I think for a very for very unde reasons there is a very intense and tight russian sentiment there now which is totally understandable reasons. There is a process now theyre thethrowing away anything that s to do with russiaow. Renaming all of the streets, going through every piece of russian literature they can find. Not saying that to be judgmental but itsth interesting, its understandable thats happening. It does sort of make it difficult to go forward and c thinking about history or even thinking about Current Events with an amounts of nuance and trying to understand the motivations on both sides. And i do not said that as a criticism of ukrainians but something people need to Pay Attention to going forward. But i also think the war will make people even more interested understand their past and the ukrainian archives have been digitizing like mad since the war started. And unfortunately there are a number of records that were lost earlier in the war. Its really terrible about happened. But theres going to be a lot worse f Available Online a lot with things that are accessible to people and hopefully people will be able to goat back and lk more carefully at the stories of their families and think about them critically. I think it will also be exciting. I like your optimism. I think it is about ukrainians are really thinking now about what the future it looks like in the past is part of the future they have inherited and how the telling stories about themselves as part of that. Before we jump to audience questions i cannot help myself i have to ask a question about the title which is of course the reference to the name of ukraines national anthem. Can you tell us that what resonated with you about that particular phrase in the title of the book . Yes thank you. I chose theef title before the infusion started. I chose at the time i didnt think the literal meaning was that meaningful to me and virtually now it is pretty meaningful. But my think he hadf been at resonates on a couple Different Levels i think for me ukraine is not that that its a political for independence and sovereignty ove the many, many countries for which it has been struggling for that. But it also speaks to more personally i think how in my family some of my family left the soviet union. Left ukraine, came to the United States. But ukraine did not die for our family in particular for me it didnt. There is a way in which the cover also speaks to that the format on a journey. And the woman could beat multiple people could beat me, kobe my grandmother, it could be ukraine. Rt but the idea being that it is importantt for people to contine to move forward. There is another way which ukraine has said whats important i wanted to capture how ukraine didid not really die for my grandmother either in her hearts. In both ways are good or bad she had a really difficult time a really difficult childhood there is a way in which she was haunted by that for the rest of her life but also she was so connected to ukraine at the end of her life too. Its a gesture towards that and of course the literal reading. Thank you so much. We will take audience questions we have a boom mic coming around you please wait until the boom mic gets to you so everyone in our virtual audience can hear peacocks so the ukrainian there were born in ukraine but they were considered russian composers. S. And they went to moscow. It was a letter of Cultural Exchange between ukraine and russia just like in lithuania they loathe the russians and walk up the nazis as a way of giving it to the russians and the russians came back. It is so complicated. How did you see the pride of russian culture is partly ukrainian culture how does that sort itself out in your mind in the ukraine view mode clicks considered a ukrainian hero in a sense or a proud composer of the country. It is definitely get interest now and defining some of the more russian cultural figures that lisa gesturing towards where they were bornn if they identified as ukrainian certainly making itif clear in various cases that they identified as ukrainian. But to your point its pretty complicated. There are people who grew up in ukraine, spent their whole life in ukraine but just identified with russia. I think that is going to be a debate that will continue i think its really cool that it is starting and people really asking these s questions and intransient really specific and not just assume russia is theus superior culture. At least globally speaking we should just identify someone being from right russia that is primarily what people thought oe that person is being from. And now theres more like lets stop and think about this and truly tried to what that persons identity was. I do not have a clear answer. I would not say just because someone was born in ukraine at any point they should be identified as ukrainian what you think . The contention is the question for this question reminds me of this conversation i had with the really good friend of mine who is ukraine in august of 2021 it was before the war started. We talk about who invented the helicopter he was born in kyiv during the russian empire did a lot of training in russia as far as i know and invented the technology for the helicopter in the United States. When russia hosted the olympics in 2014, they did that whole abc of russian w heritage, he was on that list i think imnk right about that im so sorry if ive made a mistake in my memory here. We were joking about it because he is my friend didnt think of this person as ukrainian because he had never been an outspoken antiukrainian figure in ways that other people have this long contentious relationship with his ukrainian identity so the answer to your question i think is less, lets watch and see how conversations unfold because this is the time people are starting to think about what those identities mean and what they meant in the past and how the ukrainian and russian empire meant something completely different than today. Thank you. Thats exactly. I havent read the book yet but i saw a boston globe article and i read it to my russian born wife. When i was serving in the peace corps in context and i was struck by the nature of the Refugee Status in their country. Many people who i live there after awful things happen to them and i was talking to a girl from this area who who many people might have had access to a thing called faith in history ourselves and as a nonjewish person with a german name i wonder what was it like to be in a terrible place as one of the oppressor people and how would you let it happen and im hoping to read your book and read about the stories of why and how it happened but i wondered, i now Pay Attention to what the russians in russia are saying to me and many are saying things like i imagine people in germany said awful things about ukrainian and its shocking, im a lifelong russell file which might for many people might mean soviet files but i wonder if your book will have any significance in tpdf form or Something Like that for russians on the other side of the information wars. I wonder what others think. Its a strange thing to be sitting in a bookstore when theres this war of civilization going on in europe. Y,i want to underscore whats happening in ukraine proper right now is so alarming and requires so much attention and support but theres certainly something happening in russia to which is just devastating. And hasnt happened for along time. I dont think this is something putin just managed to manufacture over the past year. Hes deliberately made his opposition receptive to propaganda and its also important to note that people are not going to let go of these ideals easilyeither. Even if putin w,is deposed at some point or whatever. Theres still going to be a big population in russia that thinks he has thisreally alarminginterpretation of history. And i dont know how to get through to those people. Yeah. I dont know what to sayabout that unfortunately. But thank you for the question. Hello, yes. I think the book youre writing, the book youve written is interesting and the story behind it and your family is one that i would say is a very well, honorable kind of thing to study what your family did throughout history and such my question , you see the appalachia quanta has written during the ukrainian war. I was wondering what other parts of the book potentially were influenced later on by the war. You revised it and edited. Thats a great question. I think i mentioned i finished the book just a few days before the war started. And i thought im going to have to rethink this whole thing. You know, i did wrestle with that to some extent and i wasnt, i did end up going to see the epilogues show, i did end up going to europe after the were started in april or may spent some time with my family t and wasnt sure if that would make it into the book or feel important and it ended up being important so i did included i think i didnt end up using very much apart from that. I did end up creating a prologue which sets up thef story. You can think about it through the lens of whats happening now but what i found was that so much of my Family Experience actually does, has a lot of parallels to whats happening. Sort of in a crazy way. Things like people are taking siberia migration Refugee Status. Actual violence and all of these things are things that were part of my families story in the 20th century. The point is not so much drawing this direct connection much as being able to present the reader an account that allows you to see this is not something thats happened in the past year or even the past 81 years. Its independent of something thats been playing for a long timein this region. I think thats really whats going to help people understand the bigger context, the bigger history so its not just like a to b but over time there are these patterns that we need to be attuned to. Wanted to make sure everybody had a chance. Quick question do you think the same story could bee written in lithuania today . Do you think its differentor the same . Lithuania has a lot of the things i mentioned. It doesnt necessarily happen right now. But yeah. Lithuanian trajectory is a bit different from kukraines. If youre talking about history some of those historical patterns have acted out. Lithuania and who knows, theres more time passes and for people, we could see maybe a bigger pattern unfolding around places beyond ukraine but because lithuania was able to integrate so readily into europe and because it does have such a strong tradition of existing outside of russia whereas ukraine , there were big parts of ukraine under russian domination, im not a lithuanianscholar. Thats my quick take. [inaudible] certainly in the 20th century but i think the vulnerability of ukraine now, i would also think russian planes and ukraine are different. Thinking ukraine is part of russia. Thats what motivates the war so thats particular i think to lithuania. [inaudible] how is it family supported or maybe engaged with you in the book writing process in the publication of it . My family wasinstrumental in helping me do this book. Going around and introducing me to people to talk to. Took so many trips with me, she was so helpful utand she absolutely didnt need to be so she took it on to help me. All of my family was supportive. I think generally pleased they were able to help me do this and now its out in the world and theyre pleased with that. I think some of the revelations in the book are uncomfortable for people in my family and for me to. I think everyone has this different set of reactions to that. Also this is sort of your time. People have a lot of issues going on so its a weird time to be thinking about these things, these questions of history are around can i travel outside of my immediate vicinity and put myself in extremedanger, is that a question . So i think now it will be interesting to see how it unfolds hopefully with the war ending but so far its just been generally extremely supportive in terms of putting it together in terms of the book being published. How is your family doingin ukraine. So they are a number of family members have left the country as refugees and they come back which is a pretty common trajectory. A lot of people have sort of settled into the new normal one mightsay. So theyve gotten used to the power outages. I, they have like my cousin whos rightfully a genius kind of alternative electricity system in her house so that when the power goes out theres batterypowered ywlights everywhere. And its fine. Theyvegot wifi on a generator. So peoples lives are able to sort of go on with a semblance of normal. At least in the parts that are not being directly attacked. So its particularly stressful and environment and its a big psychological burden on everybody. Everybody knows someone whos died, lost their home. Everyone knows someone abroad but society is extremely disrupted. Theres a lot of resilience, a lot of commitment to living one place as fully as possible. Ukrainians i must say have a lot of lived experience with being part of a weak state so people are good at working around rings like 20 years ago. People have these big garbage bins of water in their houses so people are kind of remember how to deal with shortages that two americans might seem really hard to contend with. Theres sort of a resilience and ability to hiforward but theres also a muchance at so much suffering and i sdont think you can talkabout one without the other. You hear stories about how ukrainians are being so defiant and going out and partying and the raves. Yes, thats true but thats also sidebyside with messages about your schoolmates mserving the frontline or trying to get people whove been killed. There are really difficult reality i think. Time for one more question ifanybody needs to. Im kind of curious about the archive you said you had access to. Is that in the process of being digitized, is that accessible to the ofgeneral public through a web rouser directly ings because its anongoing war. The question is seeing a lot of similar themes and trends like is their efforts to document and archive whats going on now and have it support to abroader audience. Im on the war crimes there are so many entities doing good work in terms of documenting war crimes. And all the journalists ilthat are committed to that. Emily you probably know better than i do about this but theres a lot of lyreally good networks. In terms of accessing the material online, i havent actually tried to get in and do it myself and idont remember. They were trying to take a long portal where you can go in and sort of basically in anybodys name and be able to eventually at least get as much information as possible about whatever theymight have on that person. Theres a group of high think or i forget part of a group or maybe i follow the director of the state archives. He was saying something about how much stuff theydigitized and its incredible what theyve been able to do. I dont have a timeline or being to finish that portal. But it does seem like theyre getting a lot of support and money going in and obviously people are interested in continuing to preserve the documents so hopefully it will be a good resource going forward. Ad when the work first started anwe were contacted by a number of units again asking basically if we can help them find space for their material because it wasnt so it would be someone with a laptop uploading everything they had caused its somewhere in the cloud then our actual server gets hit it will still be preserved. This is when the first russian attacks did include things like culturalheritage sites. And they needed like somebody needed to be paid to have their material uploaded. Museums and lots of different museums all around ukraine have put a lot of effort into documenting that they have, you can do a lot more virtual ports in ukrainian museums now then you could before. Its a nice way to support them but people are taking advantage of the increased capacity that started in 2014 and interest in ukraine since the war started to push the openness about owcultural heritage. You dont have to have family members in the tharchives anymore to look around and be able to access them which is a nice way to preserve and open some of that historical narrative. If youll join me for in thanking megan once morefor her wonderful book. [applause] this yearbook tv celebrates 25 years of nonfiction books and authors. Book tv is life with library of Congress National book festival. Since 2001 book tv in partnership with the library of congress has provided indepth uninterrupted coverage of the National Book festival featuring hundreds of nonfiction authors and guests. 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