All right. Good evening. Thats wonderful to see you all again. Most especially the students from university and high school and delighted to have back the last time some of may have seen don, it was during covid had to do a webinar version its much better have back in person. I feel fortunate i kind of a friend and through the council now i think we know each other about ten years. Youre one of the worlds foremost experts on the cartels and the narco violence that goes along with it in mexico. But youve also covered Central America of brazil, gangs in jamaica we will get to yemens book and a little bit later, gun money about the flow of of a huge number of weapons flowing in the united into mexico, but just because its so much in the news lately, i just want to look a little bit more at. The fentanyl crisis and maybe. Can you those people come to some of the basics and why it is kind of in recent years, a lot of the cartels in mexico have taken a shift away from almost what wed call plant based, you know, narcotics, you know, the huge fields of marijuana or opium or coca leaves, you know, that could be, you know, need large amounts of space to be grown too. Synthetic drugs, a lot of ways are much more deadly, much more lethal, such as fentanyl and other synthetic opioids. What exactly. Is fentanyl how is it created and why is it so, i suppose, attractive to the cartels . And why is it so concerning to everyone, you know, beyond the cartels . Mexico in the United States. Yeah. Thank you very much. And yes, it was great. Be here again. Ive got a Good Relationship with houston going back some years. I work for the Houston Chronicle back at 2000 photos and five from mexico as a as a freelance as a super stringer the courier back then and yeah my my fourth event with wrote out he always takes me to good a barbecue and cajun food that ive always a memories of houston so i would say what weve seen and what were witnessing now in our lives is a revolution in terms of the Illegal Drugs and this move from the plant drug. So we had, you know, marijuana going back for a lot of years, a lot of decades, and then cocaine, which is still a chemical process. But cocaine where you have the cocaine leaves and then you get the cocaine and heroin in which is, you know, you have the opium and then make the heroin and then weve seen now this revolution to drugs made from synthetic chemicals. I need to talk more to chemists about this as any chemists at end, please come forward. Id love to talk to you about about the the chemical processes and what weve seen mexico. This is really when there was a kind of Ground Breaking thing that happened. One of the pioneers was going back to 2007 you had a china is a pharmaceutical importer called san diego and he was chinese by birth naturalized mexican and he set up the links between mexican drug cartels and chinese pharmaceutical companies. And he would in his it was for crystal meth methamphetamine before fentanyl he would bring in precursors including various things various different types of chemicals and sell them to mexican cartels who then cooked them up into crystal meth. And he was making so much money he had in his home, mexico city, a mansion in mexico, 207 million in cash. What it was bust, there was a big question of where is this guy . Turned out he was like all people, lots of money. He was in las vegas and he was going up there. He was going to las vegas with spending than 100 million in cash in casinos, going to vegas with a suitcase of money and spending all his money making from this a crystal meth. The casino, and would pay him back some of the money. So he was laundering the money effectively through, the casinos. He also bought one casino. Croupier one woman who was running cartel booze. He bought her 1,000,000 house and. He eventually of the casino to pay some of that money back. So this guy was eventually arrested. Hes now in prison in mexico he was a kind of pioneer of this. And then you saw it graduate school kind of gradually up and then moving as well. Crystal meth as well to, the fentanyl. So crystal is crystal meth is like a synthetic drug, replaces the cocaine high in way its a stimulant and now its already quite recently the tables have turned so have more crystal meth being seized on the southern border. Then you have cocaine. Youve also now got more fentanyl than heroin. Now, fentanyl is a synthetic drug, which originally was made by a Pharmaceutical Company and patented, you know go back to the 1950s, which is a form of operator opioid aids are synthetic formulas which which the opiates and opiates have form direct derivatives of the opium poppy meaning their painkiller meaning theyre down as meaning they make people feel good they make people feel get rid of pain. And often for a lot of people, its both physical pain and mental and emotional pain. The stuff is so much stronger and its been a real game changer in that. I mean, they took people to talk about being 40 times stronger, 50 times stronger. The level Overdose Deaths because its so, you know, its gone off the charts. I mean, we see 170,000 Overdose Deaths in the united in 2021, 70,000 those they had a fentanyl, at least one drug in the system. So that is incredible and. Its a huge increase this is not at all normal levels. Now why do the cartels do this and money is the obvious thing when youre dealing with plant based drugs you to rely on crop so you had a bunch of people growing opium growing coca and growing marijuana. They could be sprayed, they could seized by the military. They could know affected by the harvests. You know by the temperatures. You had to wait for them. They had to bring that stuff down and process. So cocaine was the biggest moneymaker. But cocaine, you could buy a kilo of cocaine for 2,000 in colombia. Pressed up and sell it for like 15,000 in mexico and 30,000 over the border and 100,000 went against the towns. But this fentanyl, you know, you can produce this for a very small amounts and make you know, you can produce a small amount for a few thousand dollars thats worth 500,000, 800,000, 1,000,000. So the of this is what was a game changer. I mean, marijuana know the old school of marijuana that was big seized marijuana fits in a football stadium. You know these huge amounts of marijuana fits in a football stadium. Then have these big seeds, the cocaine kind of fits in a room and these big bricks of cocaine. But now, fentanyl, you could have fentanyl in, one of these glasses and thats to kill, you know half a houston. So it is some of the hype. This is true. Its a very venomous drug. And weve got a revolut weve had a revolution in terms of drug Drug Trafficking and drug use because of that. And it puts in a very, very difficult situation it just to stay with the production of it in largely mexico. Most of its in mexico in recent years under some pressure, the chinese have put in some regulations to try and restrict the exportation of, some of these precursor chemicals. But a lot of people, the United States say its not enough. Also, uschinese relations now are probably the worst theyve been since perhaps the 1960s. So theres the challenge of of when that flow of precursor chemicals, easy flow from china, stop and maybe the even scarier thought maybe you could talk about youve written how some of the cartels themselves are saying lets cut out paying the chinese the middlemen. Were going to hire our own chemists. Well make it in mexico or or also what percentage of fentanyl is made in the United States itself, do you think . Right. Yeah so so first about with china, and im not familiar with the inner of china and the ccp and so forth. What we we saw from pressure from the United States. So now that everyone knows how many types of fentanyl there are and anyone guess how many of fentanyl there are, you know, any guesses. Well, more than a thousand types. So, first of all, there was lots of press on sunday formulas. So in china, these same labs just made out. There were other forms. Eventually under more pressure. They said, okay, were banning all fentanyl forms. Any of these things we said, if its a week, we can stop. However, it appears that the not only are pharmaceuticals coming out of china, theyre also out of india. And from chinese organizations. Is making fentanyl in india and other Asian Countries now. A lot of this stuff now as well is that you have precursors. So you have precursors which we some cases these are not illegal that its very hard to see these when you i guess why dont we talk to more chemists now to be qualified to try and draw make sense of all of this stuff. You get these new precursors all the time, formulas, find that find out youve got some weird list of numbers and letters trying make sense of. Now, a lot of this stuff comes over in ships over the pacific and into mexican port of manzanillo on the pacific coast, even if say even if the customs people were honest, itd be kind of hard to stop because youve got fentanyl, have it a false bill of lading. You go, you go through these these you know, you can hide it and so forth. So what do you looking for . How much such . However there is big corruption. And i talked somebody with a lot of experience working in the port who told me that intermediaries there, you can pay them 40,000 and your container goes through and they have 3 million containers a year going to that port. So they bring them then they can either fentanyl or precursor says make this in mexico and then take over the border of the united. You know, youve got huge seizures and the seizures theyre finding are off the chart. I talked to one these guys some years ago. I talked to one guy who was in prison in the United States, in North Carolina for flying cocaine. He flew east, fly cocaine back in the day. He was flying cocaine straight over the border from mexico to the United States under radar with the lights off. But that he started just flying cocaine from venezuela and colombia to mexico. And it would be go under the border. He was in prison in the United States. And i asked him how much of the drugs that are seized, how much out there. And he said its about 4 to 1, meaning for every ton of cocaine they seized theres four tons on the street or four tonnes that are getting through. So all the feds are there finding out that theres like four times as much still still going through now. Theres also, you know, like this is according to a dea agent. He was saying, you know, he had information on the and this is all this story has been around as well that in mexico there is cartels who want qualify chemists to work for them to to find better formulas. So then you can even take this stage back and thats why its i need to take tool to cabeza the satellite. What does it mean if you take the precursor sources and you start making your own precursors and youre making these from very much base chemicals and very much stuff thats inside the farmers pharmaceutical industry . You know, its very, very hard to an eye on that. Now in the United States, there is fentanyl taking imported directly to the United States as well well. It seems its difficult. Its impossible to know exactly when you got this clandestine. But the evidence to point from what im seeing much is coming through mexico right now than is directly in the United States or being synthesized in the United States because the quantities, the pure quantities, just look at the numbers youre seeing on southern border of fentanyl seizures there. And, you know, as you mentioned, its its catastrophic in recent years, the number of Overdose Deaths, the United States has basically quadrupled, you know, 70,000, just fentanyl alone. Do you see any kind of correlations, maybe kind of unfortunate distinctions between, say, what we call the crack epidemic, epidemic of the 1980s and nineties that disproportionately affected a lot of times urban in a lot of our big cities as. And then it was labeled and as a crime problem as opposed to now maybe weve progressed as a country the fentanyl crisis, other opioids have disproportionately affected more white and often rural or midwestern users addicts. And maybe its seen more as a Public Health issue. Do you think there are disparities there or maybe overall should be happy that were hopefully trying to treat this more a an issue of addiction as opposed to at least the lower levels crime . Yeah, what a comparison. Back to 19, a 1980s and want to reagan and motley crew and all of those great things ghostbusters and back to the future i mean a very very different world isnt it if you look at the crack epidemic, i think its an interesting point of comparison. Theres so many different things. You look at the crack epidemic and i mean, i just looked at some of these numbers before i came out. Something some of the questions and i know looking at this but like in 1988 its kind of the height of the crack epidemic, the Overdose Deaths in the United States, 5000, less than 5000, 2021, 107,000. So very, very different scale now, theres more to it than that. Know, drug addiction doesnt only hurt with drug deaths. You have, you know, addiction which can damage family is and you know people you know all these of things a lot of the in the crack years, the crack epidemic there were a lot of the deaths, the violence and the horror was people shooting, fighting over the profits. This on the corner, you had a lot of crack being sold, a lot of people got crews on the corner selling crack and a lot of money. And then people fighting said very, very high murder rates in certain cities in the United States in the 1980s, fast forward to now and. So we see it as a health problem. I think the United States has not grasped or really got a clear policy on it. In some ways, i. On one side, you have certain elements the Republican Party who are saying, you know, we need to, you know, take out the cartels and call them terrorists and, kind of bomb mexico and so forth. Now, i think theyre wrong thinking. This is some quick fix. You could just do this. You could just like do a chicago style operation. The movie sicario kind of go over the border and just kind of bomb these things. Because ive been covering these cartels the last 20 years and youve got like hundreds of thousands of people involved in this youre not going to just bomb it away, gone over, but i think its a fair point. And i know apart from the fact that youre violating mexican and, you know, it comes into a very, very big dispute. But on the other side, they are making a point. This is a real its a real political issue. Now, on the gang, on the broad elements of the democratic side, youve got people saying, oh, weve got look more towards more towards health, whatever harm reduction, but not really a clear policy, again, of what that is. I mean, really, how you have much better treatment because. You shouldnt it should not be acceptable having. 170,000 people dying of overdoses and a lot of young people up in the prime of their lives. So in a sense, you could say, well, if you know, this is affecting Middle America in some ways, and its also right now the united is not really handling it in the same way. Now, the crack epidemic is looming. Theres a kind of last note on that in some ways. There was more elements of kind of media around the crack epidemic. Some times that was overly hyped about this whole thing. Stories like crack babies, which were not really true. We know, you know, these kind of babies born on crack and stuff, which are kind of not really true and there was kind of a lot there was certainly a lot of very aggressive, kind of hardcore policing, putting a lot of people in prison over that. But but a different world now and certainly not a kind of clear solution or really they started treating it number one priority and and and well turn to kind of some, you know, policy ideas. And there are no easy there are no easy answers. Obviously, as you know, its like foreign. But at least you have a selection, a choices. This is an enormous market. Its estimates the rand corporation, 150 billion annually. The united that americans spend on Illegal Drugs. That creates kinds of disproportionate in terms of of of every year various sectors Society Economics in terms of those willing to resort to violence maybe just for two or three examples could you talk about, i think whats reflective of corruption, the difficulties at the highest levels . And first, about the capture and eventual release of el chapo, some and then in terms, sadly, the levels of corruption go to the very top. The former secretary of public security, which would be the equivalent roughly of the United States secretary of homeland. The home fence, luna garcia, or even their secretary defense cienfuegos, both accused in corruption, bribery. You talk about how it has gotten such levels all across the board of politics in mexico. Yeah, absolutely. So who has heard about el chapo has had its its funny isnt it. I mean, i know thats not a joke. Oh chapos got a name recognition probably now than any president of latin america yet you know how famous even within that america itself as well. I went to some of el chapos trial in new york and saw him first hand a few feet away. It was kind of a mix of kind of seeing all this violence, but also of this kind of sun or or struck, seeing the figure a few feet away, the courtroom, another and i heard of el, if you would pay me with his sons various sons they call lost. The little chapos and hes got a whole bunch sons but for particularly accented the head of a kind of new faction the Sinaloa Cartel or the cartels. Well lost chapters and they got really big into fentanyl. There was some of the ones who really saw this are profits of this. They run a pretty hard cartel himself, spending a lot of time in sinaloa. And the last couple of years you can see the difference, the kind gangster control in the city of cool. I cannot imagine a lot. They have a scorpion, one of their symbols they use and they had back in 2019, just before the pandemic. All those seems like years and years ago they had one of the one of the songs or video guzman known as el ratline or the mouse they captured him in a house. They had about 100 police and soldiers captured. And in response, 350 gunmen took to the streets very quickly, 700 to 800 gunmen took to the streets very responding to the police. Soldiers. They the army put. Out. Another 20 guy, that one of the gunmen from the from the army, the police melted away. The massive gunfight in the city. People were terrified if they were taking kids to pick up their kids from school, they would hide in the schools a big gunfight ensued for about 4 hours. The Cartel Gunmen even went to the barracks the soldiers were and where the wives, family, wives and children were and threatened them. And after 4 hours the government released a video who man said released so real stain on the president of mexico now this january right before obrador the president of mexico due to meet biden and then a second operation and they got be guzman very very timely for this International Meeting this time they did go with 250 soldiers. They went with three and a half thousand soldiers. They went in. They had him they found him in a village called hazards maria. Funnily enough, theres a song now, but the good narcocorrido, which are drug ballads, and theres one about obadiah guzman and actually mentioned the name of the village in the song. So its like, where did the intelligence from . Did the dea, the cia knows in the song mentions, is it but they went in there to know that they carried out a massacre would have been a lot of people in this village. But got him back. Got him very, very fast to the airport. People on a now it was in the commercial airport planes came under fire from the Cartel Gunmen. And theres video of people, these commercial planes ducking because these bullets coming. But they flew it back that they caught him. So that gave the mexican president something to to bring forward to to this meeting. However despite theres a lot of tension right now between mexicans United States in the us and you talk to a lot of the drug agents, dea agents, all the officials washington theyre angry about this, the level of fentanyl finding this year on the borders even more than last year it might you know were only april not even in may yet. And already the numbers are looking beat. Last years numbers offensive on the border. So the us is like a lot of people are angry now that what did was they they cried they bought this big indictment again against the other capitals they said and they said were them for the last year and a half we had paid informants inside the organization and the mexican president offended. How come the americans are infiltrating cartel as violating our sovereignty . You know, we have to defend this thing so its a tense moment right now. And its its a difficult moment we have to be careful where this goes. I mean, they need to we need to have us, mexico city and washington, working together these probably mutual problems. But be careful. This could kind of spot a bit out of control and just related to that, you mentioned earlier. Yeah, theres been discussion on both sides. Americans, republicans have maybe finally the gulf cartel or other cartels as what we call an fto foreign terrorist organization, because that that adds a of weight and substance to it, especially for charging people for especially financial related crimes or even if not directly aid to a murder. Its easier to prosecute people, give them longer sentences if they can make a terrorist connection. But can you about the i suppose, of that you touched upon it, president Lopez Obrador in mexico already upset the United States and youre violating our sovereignty. If we push that too far, is he going to stop on immigration and . They have actually he has been quite helpful on immigration for both trump and biden in keeping especially Central Americans. You know, on the mexican side of the border. Where do you think that goes . And if the us does designate a cartel to as a foreign terrorist organization, the equivalent of al qaida or isis or alshabab where might things go . Yeah, this this might well be coming in a they do sometimes acts of terror something might be familiar when when they massacred nine women and children from a mormon cross border Mormon Community sonora in 2019, burning down a casino in in monterrey killing thousands of people, grenades into places and killing regular people, just just celebrating. So there are there are acts. I mean, just just a the saturday before last, they went into a assuming open Swimming Pool in the state of. A heart, though, and carried out a massacre, killing a seven year old boy. So they in some ways commit acts of terror. The about designating terrorist organizations. So the i mean, this goes a lot of ways, you know, on one side they feel that way would be easier. They have to go through really long indictments. They just kind of grab people it means they could use this in pretty aggressive, but maybe also kind of grab people who are any kind of tangent tangentially and sort of like trumping up charges of being very, very high charges on them. It would go they might expect right away some of the people pushing for this. One of them is the people sitting in the United States who sell guns, which get into they could be done with terrorist charge of providing material for terrorist organizations. And theyre getting guns in texas, in arizona and a bunch of places. The people who have claiming asylum at the southern arriving and saying, i need asylum, if they say im fleeing from a terrorist organization that would strengthen asylum claims. So they can go different ways that but like i think i mentioned earlier, one of the things is is this this idea that like you could declared in terrorist organizations, youre changing the name. You call them and you could do some cross border. You know you could justify that a drone attack you say. Well weve located a cartel Training Camp in in chihuahua and we fly some drones over. Its always over. We blow it to hell. But right to kingdom come then thats going to solve the problem. And the idea going to something is by changing the name of this and, by shooting a couple of people, youre not going to solve this. This is really, really big issue that needs big comprehensive, long term commitments. The solutions to. But it could happen. You know, it could happen in terms of that and know we could see that arriving in in the near and you know from the american perspective, for four years weve said cant you get the cartels under control you know cant you do more to establish and the rule of law you know theyll argue whatever president you know were doing what we can were trying and theyll say back and a lot of ways rightly so the United States you have 150 billion a year addiction problem that most of that direct violence except for the overdoses. 90 of the People Killed in the narco related violence are being killed in mexico, maybe Central America. We pay the price for your addiction and to make it even. And its highlighted in your excellent just eye opening book, you know, blood gun, money. You do almost nothing to stop the flow of every advanced, you know, virtually militarily weapon was an ar 15 or a 50 caliber sniper rifle that people inspired a gun store in or georgia or and flow across the border. What is the reality of of the depth the drugs flowing north we all know about we dont talk about the 200,000 weapons every single year flow from the north, the border south into mexico. And what that does for these cycles, violence. Yeah, sure. So ive been covering this violence for a lot of years and, knew about the issue of guns and i thought, well what can we really say about because in the United States, you have a Second Amendment right and thats way it is. But, you know, it started dawned on me when i did an interview in a prison in Ciudad Juarez in 2017 with a gun trafficker, and he described how he used to go free. He was in juarez. Hes a cross over el paso and drive every weekend to dallas. And by 12 to 15 a fifteens mostly and driving back into mexico. And i said, okay, what did you use in terms of paperwork . And he said, no paper trail, there was no papers. What interesting. How come with no paper trail so no and the way you describe it was that, oh theres a black market at the gun shows operating their parallel to the regular gun shop. So went to check out his store and went up to mesquite town of mesquite on the edge of dallas. Some us called the gun show captain of america we have gun shows pretty much every weekend and went around to check out his story and found a few people said no you need a drivers you need paperwork but then found some people said, no, no, no, no paperwork. We can sell you a gun with no paperwork. And the idea is you have the private collectors who youre selling a weapon to somebody, the no paperwork involved, but theyre not acting as simply private collectors. That acting as gun salesmen, engaging in the business without a license. And some of are doing it with people that and they said got brand new ar15 havent been fired well sell them right to you so that people who deliberately taking advantage this and selling guns to people who dont have the paperwork to buy guns who might have a felony offense, who who might want smuggle for criminals and criminal networks, who want no paper trail and theyre buying and selling and acting as tool bars for them. So i realize. Well, thats quite a lot to this, actually. Its not just question of the Second Amendment and you can be totally in favor of the Second Amendment and in favor of peoples right to bear arms. But think theres something a bit off there that this is being abused and that people are able to arm these cartels so easily. So its better for you is getting into this, you know, went down to the gun you know rival in romania they make ak 40 sevens and around right in the business here talk to the ar 15 owners of america the head of the alaska machine gun association, a militia member in michigan, and cattle talking to gun traffickers and sicarios and people, you know, hitmen, people moving these these guns around. And you see know this is what i meant. The figure, more than 200,000 firearms a year estimated going to mexico. Theres been over the last 12 years about 192,000 firearms, which they traced. They captured cartels and other companies in mexico and definitively traced them to two factories or two shops here in the United States. And its this was this question, is this not being stopped . Whats stopping this kind of basic Law Enforcement in this issue . And i think you know, theres this something you can see quite clear. Theres a lot very difficult things, i think, dealing with drug addiction is very difficult. Thats a hard thing to do to try and deal with drug addiction. You know, you got to get to why people become addicted to drugs, why they taking fentanyl, heroin. But theres a basic stuff i mean, you see cases and is a case where an american agent was killed in mexico and they trace the gun to a pawnshop in beaumont, texas. And a guy walked in there and. He bought ten ak 47 for the cartel. He was paid 600 plus the cost of the rifles. So hes consciously buying ten ak 47 for a drug cartel. And this guy, his punishment when he was caught probation. So theres this idea of like, you know, youre conscious sleep on weapons for drug cartel. Theres no consequences so some basic Law Enforcement there, especially these big numbers. There was somebody who was watched and he was going around phenix, arizona, buying guns for the cartel, spent half Million Dollars buying guns. Buying guns. Buying guns. We have this issue of caliber, barrett, 50 right people with the cartels wider theres video when i mentioned that they when there were 700 gunmen on the street and they were fighting the soldiers they beat them fought video of them find these 50 cows on one of these bullets blowing soldiers leg off. So if youre mexican soldier or a police officer, youll find these cartels and theyre firing 50 calibers. You theyre buying those in stores in arizona. And i almost 15,000 a pop. 10,000. So you know, how come, you know, theres a basic thing . Theres basic, i would say common measures that could be taken a basic effort to try and stop this southward flow of guns. And i would say its in the interest of the states not to have really violent cartels on the southern border, because you get situations like some americans who went to matt with whatever brownsville went to matamoros for a surgery and then they got kidnaped couple, then got killed. You have situations like here some years ago, a woman who crossed who was jet skiing with her husband in falcon lake, they crossed into mexico and were hit by the settlers and the husband was killed. So having these heavily armed cartels is bad for american interests, kind of destabilize mexico pushing refugees and so forth northward. I, id say some measures could be taken just a start. And i just want to ask you one last question that i turn out to the audience questions. Youve been covering this now for for 20 years. You 50 years plus now. You know, when nixon first declared the war on drugs, a lot of ways it hasnt worked. Its kind of failed. In some ways. I think the violence that youve seen is really only comparable to kind of al qaida and easter. Do youve been horrific scenes . I wont even just people should probably never see with the council had the pleasure of interviewing from highest levels to just midlevel to special operators you know further you know seals or deltas or the people Intelligence Officers who worked on the war on terror and they would say you know for a certain point we were playing whack a mole, you know, yes, we can take out this cell. We can take out, you know, this, you know, this leader here. And but but how do we kind of get where we can stop this flow or blunt ideology . Because its not normal for not normal 14 year old boy in pakistan to say ill be a suicide bomber or 14 year old boy in chihuahua to say i want to join a cartel. What do you think are some viable kind of options policy, especially say, here in the United States and mexico . If you you mentioned that as well, when especially now, its complicated. The fact that, as you mentioned, some of these synthetic are so, so dangerous. You cant just say legalize fenton. Stuff like that. The first time you use it could kill you. And what are some viable, realistic options you think might be possible to kind of at least reduce the catastrophic kind of addiction here in the United States and, the subsequent violence in mexico . Yeah, sure. Well, three areas you mentioned 50 years since Richard Nixon drugs, public enemy number. And were at a place now with, you know, very difficult place we would drugs now worse than ever a lot worse than 50 years ago but its not an way out of it either. Either youve got them and we know we can say the war on drugs has failed. And in many ways the government doesnt even really talk about the war drugs anymore. Its kind of more of us critics who talk about it. But what do we do in its place im going to serve our like to take a different audiences it just to kind of get a sense like raise your hands if youre in favor legalizing marijuana or legal marijuana. Raise your hand im not saying im in favor. Im just saying just say im getting a survey. Raise your whos in favor of legalizing cocaine. Yeah. Small. Small i was i was in california yesterday and it was a. To raise your hands if youre in of legalizing fentanyl know take so so its a difficult situation and in terms of what Public Opinion and in terms of what we really do i would say we could perhaps find i mean, start within drug policy of saying a middle way. I mean, i think, you know, legalizing marijuana now could say its kind of crossed a threshold and maybe something should happen federally. But then what do you do with other drugs and really big time work on reducing and working addicts . Im not i think it should be a a really fun policy of that. Now, exactly what that means in terms of sometimes working with addicts, what with prevention, you know, a lot of resources into that that in terms of in mexico. I mean, theres two things. One is how do you build police that work . And its very hard. Im not into a lot of horror stories. Police officers working with cartels. I was, i was in a small town in sonora. There was a police officer. Not only was he driving cocaine around in his police car to different points, he had two rifles at a plate. He had a a Police Issued rifle and a cartel issued rifle with the punisher sprayed on the side of the gun. So. How do you turn those plates to pieces work . I think Building Police forces will Police Forces in mexico has to something this has to be seen as a long Term Solution and a third is finding real solutions. The young people, the Young Children who are trained to be the next generation of hitmen, you know, theres you the social work. The work prevention of them becoming the next killers, carrying on these of just buying a few questions because theyre the same you basic perspectives on you get your your opinions on fentanyl richard asked instead killing their customers. Why dont the cartels use less fentanyl or reduce its potency . And then kind of related to that just ask how do you tell that a fentanyl pill is lethal if there are a thousand different kinds and then nelson asks can discuss the medical usage of fentanyl. I suppose originally you have very good questions. They are all about. Take him in reverse. So, you know, fentanyl is an effective painkiller. Thats what, you know, a lot, you know, morphine gods own medicine. And they called, you know, morphine that is the story got back to when they when during World War Two the Us Government had, its source of opium poppies, cut off and it needed morphine for the troops. So went down to mexico, to sinaloa and actually started dealing with with the the growers there to in to make morphine back then you know these effective painkillers. Theres all Different Levels and all different types side different opioids but thats what people want something and you some medicine. How can you tell the doses so this is gets into where not only the different types but the different strengths so you could you know you one pill you know youre going to have you know one milligram or ten milligrams and maybe one milligram. You can survive. Okay. And ten milligrams will kill you. Theres a very is a controversial idea that people say, well, we should allow testing sites so that if somebody is buying drugs off the street, they can go and test it and they can say, oh, this has got this amount of fentanyl, the strength, and it will kill you. It wont kill you. And theyre controversial examples of what you encourage people to to take drugs in terms of. It is a good question from from richard. Yeah. Why the cartels sell drugs that are killing their base and it is a good question. I ask myself this what i do this you cannot you kill 70,000, 100,000 people in a year. Thats a hundred thousand customers youve killed off. And i think it shows a lot of this is not long term Strategic Thinking thinking it is short profits is like you know will make this right now i mean its. I spent a lot of time talking to drug traffickers. Ive talked to some who in prison right now, some who have, you know, one guy ive talked to in some deep conversations who just serve 17 years. He was going to serve 38 years. But yet he said, is reduced because of a change in the law. And he was describing his as a drug trafficker at a high level. And give me insight to how they think is a different world. I think a lot of them a really living in a very violent and dangerous world also drunk on the money and the power. So you talk about what it feels like for them. Its its money, power. And theyre a very violent situation. And theyre thinking short term, i could bring in these chemicals, i can make these drugs, i can sell them. And im making myself 20 million. And then not necessarily thinking, you know, these drugs kill off my customers and what they do next year. Now you do one day were going to find this out. It is really brutal to say. Were going to find out how much this level of death will reduce the demand for drugs in the United States. But i say this is tragic. I mean, look at streets of san francisco, los angeles, people there. I mean this is a lot of people hurting a of people taking these drugs and a lot of them are going to die. Just but some of you have come this the third or fourth time. I think we post you once was virtual glad to you back in person your brave and courageous journalist. Different people have similar questions you know one asks. Journalists have been assassinated in mexico. Do you fear for your life and to us . You know, similar questions. You know, as journalists, how do you how do you protect yourselves just for context, in the last 20 years, 150 journalists have been killed in mexico. One of the worst place for journalists is the whole world. How do keep doing what youre doing and is there a line you have to kind of walk up to and hope you dont cross . You may not know you crossed it. Yeah. Thank you. So, yeah, theres been more than 150 journalists murdered in mexico since 2000 time ive been there. Some of my friends, one particularly prolific journalist was about this. A very good journey to rise, mistakes in the law. Who books very good poetic writer was shot dead on may may 15th,. 2017 with 12 bullets as he was going for lunch from his office. Theres one thing about you understand a little about the murder of mexican journalists. It happens. Mexicos a big country and i got to be careful what i give talks or go on tv and write stories to give news. I want to terrify all of you do not go to mexico. Mexico is a big country with very Different Levels of violence around the country. Mexico city as i wrote a story about recently, has got less murders per capita than. Houston, texas, and less right now. The portland, oregon, which had a spike in murders. You could hand state of yucatan has the same murder is belgium. However youve got places like zacatecas which is you know, has the most murderous cities in world. So its very across the country where the worst attacks on journalists are happening. Are these towns and cities where you have these a lot of violence happening, a lot of are very, very strong. So one thing is for me to, go to mexico city and also other colleagues of mine from city mexican colleagues from mexico city to go to michoacan to interview a drug trafficker and, then to leave and go back home. If you live there and if you are a drug trafficker, well youre at a crime scene. You might be at a crime scene. Dead body on the ground is some drug trafficker. There on the phone plotting revenge. Now, been in that situation. And then you go to the supermarket or to the cinema and you see that same guy. So. So youre living around this and they know who you are, you live. And so that theyre living the very, you know, horrific situations where theyre basically dictated to by the cartels saying that we can never be too confident about this. Theres been a very many situations which have been hairy situations over the years. Theres also been a lot of americans and all the people who just simply being killed for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. There was an american schoolteacher who was doing a lot of kind of what i do going to parties around also kind of living this world in these areas. And they accused him of being a dea agent and he was murdered in chihuahua, another Young American canadian who was going through mexico on a motorcycle and was murdered. His mother came down to search for him. So theres been these situations as journalist. Its a lot of protocol, lot of experience, a lot of different techniques sometimes, you know, from everything from asking local police for protection. Its places where you have to call up. One time we were being pursued on a road with guys following us back to pull in and call up a contact in the local to come out and give us some protection. Even though the police could be working for the cartels, still they could be. I protection to you some of from that from working with local people dealing with asking permission to go places and when dealing with the Cartel People themselves having you know certain attitude. Im constantly thinking about this, constantly thinking, revisiting how are you going to how are you going to do this . How you going make the best of the situation . But its always a concern and always something to think about and just want to end on to Great Questions from students. One kind of maybe what i happen in mexico, that the other kind of what happen in United States. Bethany a High School Student at the international school, as you mentioned, the cartels were recruiting young, young teens, you know, offer the streets, would educating these teens for a specific jobs trade lower the amount of children being recruited and just in more generally what can the Mexican Government do to reduce the influence of the cartels . And then on the us, an interesting question, olivia a student at Sam Houston State University asked is in United States best interests to give the crisis the same Media Attention as did in the eighties with, you know, the crack epidemic or we created hysteria kind of thats counterproductive. And, you know, maybe how should we frame that the you know whats going on now with the fentanyl crisis. Yeah sure ill answer those questions in as well. So in terms of how the media should cover this, its always challenging and i as a journalist i think in some ways you dont get to decide exactly how the media cover is going to be as a journalist. You just go and write your stories. You know, you got to write your stories. Youve to make judgments and say, think. You know, as journalists, we do need to have responsibility and say this, you know, this story is hype. We should be covering certain stories besides stories. We should be. And i believe this is a story that does big media coverage. You cant decide as an individual journalist all the time. It is going to be on the front. Youre going to be you know, sometimes it is something that isnt is light hearted. I news days was a lot of things on the news days nothings happening but i think this is something that we should cover and the violence in mexico something we should cover, the drug overdose. We should we just be careful. It with violence its how much you show the violence graphically in mexico they a lot of these newspaper with a lot of very graphic violence on the cover they are not our roger not the red news and traditionally theres been a lot of appetite for that in in in the United States, a lot less so when i used to work for the Houston Chronicle remember the the journalist had some covered these these people americans being killed in saudi arabia some years ago there was a photograph that and readers complained in a you should be shown you know photographs dead bodies but either way how graphic you show violence does need to be covered and we need to give as much perspective as we can. But this is an important i think. I think when you go human life, when youve got life and death and people dying in the prime of lives from murder or from drug overdoses, it deserves coverage. Last question and its been a great its always great to be again. And in houston im with the World Affairs council. Like solutions terms of the the the for mexico in the United States. I mean i always like to end on a positive note and said some bad things about a lot of people dying of overdose and so forth. I think you going to have to see a future theres different on both sides of the board with these issues issues. If its, you know, right now mexican people in mexico dying from bullets and people in the states dying of overdoses, theres going to be less in the future has got to happen. Some. So how do you i think to say deep problems in society. Go to the us side. First. Lets go to find ways of dealing with the addiction problem, the drug problem, the use, the demand. Why is it that theres people that, you know, it could be a lot of things broken families, lack of faith, broken communities, lack of economic possibilities for certain people, old things. You you know, victims of abuse. But why, you know are these people in a better treatment of people to not even get to the stage of taking drugs and a future where you dont have these numbers with other things. Well has to be an element of Law Enforcement and you can try and reduce amount of the very venomous drugs on the but there has to be a side that treatment in mexico. Bethany correctly mentioned you know finding better ways. I spent a lot of time in reviewing some these hit men and think about some of these hit men is you talk to them and ask them about their go through their life story and go through like when they go to organized crime. Some of them that very, very brutal childhoods. Theyre recruited. I talked to a guy who recruited two hitmen, he was saying they looked for the kids who had hate in their hearts and they describe taking life and doing evil things, but also got a lot of pain in their own heart. Theyre both victim victimizes and victims to an extent. And i think rightly correctly points out you offer People Better options in life, better economic options. But this is basic reaching out. And sometimes you see these communities where theres no paved roads, where theres a real kind of of the government to reach out to this of society, to reach out. And its not even just about the money, but its about the kind of the effort and the inclusion and in these people. So i think. You know, those things there is hope there. And i see things have to change sometime on this issue. So i leave with a positive note there. Thanks much. Now, another easy thing to do do. And again, as i say, we have joannes excellent blood gun money at the back of the. Im also volunteering him to hang around and sign copies for all of you who want to get it and some of you already have it and. Youre one of the most courageous journalists i know covering incredibly difficult you know basically waves violence in mexico, Central America and beyond. I want to thank you for coming houston again. And most importantly, thank you for for what you do to kind of help the world know what the reality of the Cartel Violence is. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank