Transcripts For CSPAN2 After 20240704

So matt its wonderful to be with you and its a delight to be able to get to do this with you. And weve known each other for years, and i find you to be a singularly happy, hopeful and patriotic person. And i think anyone who cares about our system of governance and representation will learn a lot from your hard work and your deep research. Despite the subtitle, the swamp creatures, latte liberals and ruling class elites cashing in on america, you do not aim with filthy rich politicians to enrage your fellow citizens. You instead outline rational, doable, commonsense reforms that we can all support and we should. So lets dig right in. Why does it matter that politicians are rich, even if theres a perception that they are allowed to feather their nests . Yeah, well, look, i think that the reason it matters is that it is eroding trust in, liberal democracy and elected officials. And we have seen a correlation. I would say in the last four or five decades between the gap widening, between our elected officials and normal average americans. And at the same time, weve seen the erosion of trust in our elected officials. Now that parallels a loss of trust in a lot of institutions organs. But politicians actually at the bottom, you know, members of congress specifically less popular than colonoscopies, essential play. So thats thats why the book and have they always been richer than the rest of us. I think that politicians general have generally been who are richer and if you look at president s George Washing ten was incredibly wealthy. We think of franklin roosevelt. Theodore roosevelt. Its a donald trump. Its a long list. I think real difference is the lower chamber. Members of the house of representatives and since about the time i was ten years old their wealth has doubled. And meanwhile the wealth of the average person has kind of been a flatline. And in some case gone down. Im talking about adjusted for inflation and and things like that there is a right now average member of congress is about 12 times richer. The average american household. So i think as that gap has grown in some of the this trust and the sense is that the game is rigged. And you know, there are politicians to talk about the game being rigged talk about the swamp in order to exploit it and to sort of play on populist sympathies. But the truth, they kind of do have a point as illustrated in the book. Meanwhile, they are it. So populism is rising because theres a tension in the fact that americans can no longer on jobs that provide a living wage. Meanwhile, theyre represented by people who are wealthier than them, who continue to get while they are Public Servants yet yet being loaded does not seem to be such a problem because in your book you note that rich and compean so theyre hit on this by their opponents all the time often win. Yeah how. Well i think its partly the same reason that people can hate on congress in general but they vote for their own congressmen and so like in north dakota for example john hoeven is a very very wealthy us and in the decade so that hes been in congress his wealth has doubled and his opponent tried to use it against him and it didnt work at all and we see happening in many races don. Beyer in virginia the very rich car dealer had was used against him a democratic primary last cycle didnt work at all. And i think that basically it doesnt resonate as a Campaign Issue against specific member, but i think that collectively this sense that politicians are getting rich richer than us, which is a little bit problematic, but theyre oftentimes using their perch to feather their nest. I think that has the of kind of eroding trust in the Institution Even if you still vote for your own member of congress. So you list the ten richest president s, which i was fascinated by. Donald trump tops the list with John F Kennedy behind him whose peak net worth you was 1. 1 billion. Who right now is the richest politician. And right now its j. B. Pritzker whos the governor of illinois, is the richest in america. That interesting family. I believe there are 11 billionaires in his family. I think its hyatt fortune, the hyatt fortune, if im not mistaken and in his race, his last for governor of illinois. There were three billionaires running that race alone. So thats the kind of money were talking about. The richest senator right now. We believe. And by the way, always have to have a little bit of an asterisk here. Politicians make it impossible to know exact how rich they are. They have to they have to report their their finances. But its very broad ranges. There are things that they dont have to report that that so we believe its rick scott from florida former governor or current senator would be the member of congress. So you write about a system where the rich get elected and elected rich why do these people even want the job . I think there are a bunch of reasons why rich people run some. It i think is they really want to good i look i dont buy argument that theyre running to cut their own tax rate or Something Like that i dont i think thats overplayed they could be easier to own politicians than to be one i think some of these politicians are running because they rich people are running because they really think they can make a difference in some cases. I think its like the transitive property of expertise. You know, they believe i was great at cloud computing. I can our Health Care System i think thats a little bit naive mean i know ive worked in my past life when i was working in politics. Ive worked for politicians and who were very successful. And one thing business whatever and it wasnt necessary eerily transferable to government or even campaigning but i think thats a natural set. I think also politicians to run for office for the same reason im sorry rich people want to run for office for the same reason that rich people want to buy rocket rides into outer space or own baseball teams. You know, theyre bored and its something something for them to do. And at the end of the day, i in a way i understand theres something nice about rich people going into because i feel like id be on a beach somewhere, like, you know, like drinking, you know . Of course its a lighter. Whatever beer you like, you prefer. I dont know that i would actually to go into public service. So in a way, i it but i do think troubling when the average person represent us is like 12 times richer than us. I mean its hard to believe that that they really are in touch with the average persons concerns. Having said that, im less concerned about rich people than i am about people getting elected. And cashing in. So regular joes cant take leave and they cant quit their jobs to campaign. So how is the system not stacked against them participating . It totally is against regular joes and not even joes. Even people like me. A few like a year ago, my wife and i were going for a walk. I live in i live in West Virginia. My dad was a prison guard 30 years. I live in West Virginia. But i get do this awesome job right about politics, about politics. And my wife is, a republican political fundraiser and so with that is the backdrop were on this walk. I was telling her, im like you know, since we live in West Virginia, if the political environment werent the way it is, theres this scenario where could possibly run. I mean, theres an open governors in West Virginia right now. Theres an open theres a Competitive Senate seat which opened up the house seat where i live. And im like, you know, maybe in some scenario i could run for that house seat. And shes like, well, no, you couldnt. And im like, well why not . I like your shes like, you dont have enough money. And i said well, but youre a youre a political fundraiser. I know a lot of people. Ive been doing this a long time. And she said, let me, tell you what i tell people who call me up, who to run and not for president not for senate, but just for the house you have to either your campaign 300,000 or raise that much money from your personal christmas card. Listen network before its even worth my time try to introduce you to Political Action or rich donors and like even i, someone has worked in this industry for a couple of decades now. I couldnt. I dont have enough money to run for the house, let alone, you know, an actual kind of joe sixpack there. Like my dad, i was actually going to ask about eye popping factoid that comes from your bride by later. It is. Oh, its right. Its incredible. And i think its a great teaser for why people need to buy the book when it comes to the elected getting rich. You argue that Insider Trading is the most toxic and i agree with you lets be bipartisan. Walk through the examples of senator richard burr and former House Speaker nancy pelosi, if you could. I find it most interesting. Well, let me start with nancy pelosi and ill give you two examples that i think are pretty egregious. The first example and its really, Nancy Pelosis husband, paul, who is doing actually doing the the investing and stock market. And this is how they work this out. Exactly. And 2020, paul pelosi, he bought hundreds of thousands of dollars of Stock Options and tesla. Five weeks later, joe biden signs an executive order mandate ing that federal, local, state fleets begin transition, adding by 2027 into zero emissions vehicles. So you can imagine what happened. The stock of tesla after the president signed that executive order right it went through the roof coincidence or knowledge it curious to me and the people i talk to actually know a lot more about the market than i do say its very suspicious. Its very sketchy. Its a very swampy second example having to do with the policies is the next year, 2021. Paul pelosi exercises 10 million worth of Stock Options in microsoft this time, two weeks later, the Army Announces that theyre going to go with microsoft left for these headsets that that theyre ordering. Im im forgetting the actual word but its basically Virtual Reality augmented reality headsets. So in other words, microsoft won a bid in a sort of a contract to produce these augmented reality headsets. This could be worth billions of dollars over and again two weeks earlier, paul pelosi. Invested 10 million. And now is that is that a coincidence . The thing is, im just giving you two examples in the pelosis have gotten very, very often and in fact, theres even there were i dont know if it still exists, but there were people on social media like tic tac who were investing with the pelosi. Every time that the pelosis made an investment were always a good bet. And it seemed to pan out well for them. And what about richard burr had a very interesting time in the in the onset of the pandemic right so think back to early on when covid 19 is starting to hit and the average american doesnt know how bad it is. Two weeks to you know and two weeks ago, as donald trump said, its to all be over like in the blink of an eye. Right i think this started before we heard the phrase two weeks to flatten the curve. This would so the average american at this has no idea weve been that theres this thing in china this virus theres a couple cases or something but we dont know how bad it is is going to be in america. So richard burr, who at the time is a senator, but at the time he was chair of the intel committee. So he has access to a lot of top secret confidential meetings, information dumps, all of his stock in things like wyndham hotel, places that would be, you know, investment that would be very, very hurt by it. Lets say a Global Pandemic thats bad enough. But then he calls his brother in law and within minute of hanging up the phone, richard burr, his brother in law calls his broker and dumps his stock. Yeah. So coincidence seems a little bit suspicious. Me but heres the thing. Whether is Insider Trading or not, it doesnt really matter in the sense that the damage done to anybody paying attention is it certainly has the appearance of impropriety. It looks like the game is rigged. And again, that is what i think is i dont blame problems on this, but i think it is contributing to the erosion, trust and liberal democracy. Is there any scenario that you can see for blind trust in which we can trust members to invest but remain separated their holdings when they legislate . I dont think so. So in 2012, Congress Finally passed the stock act, which made it illegal to engage in Insider Trading. I guess until then it wasnt even illegal. You can imagine right . But since 2012, its been illegal to engage in Insider Trading and weve obviously the problem has not gone away in. Fact, perhaps its gotten but it certainly has not gone not gone away. Now, some the politicians that become embroiled in these controversies and things that look like Insider Trading say, i have a blind or my husband or my wife manages my portfolio or i have, you know, and so i believe that in order to basically in this, what we should do is ban individuals, stock trading for members of congress, their families. Now, i think you should still be allowed to own a mutual fund thats not youre not going to game the system with that. But i dont think the blind trust goes far enough in terms of quelling concerns and sort of solving like because you will still have examples of people will theyll be i mean, when russia invaded, ukraine members of congress who had invested in you name it you know weapons of war they profited from that and then they can say, well, i have a blind its still a bad look. I dont think its asking. Look, if you if you want to be in the stock market, get another job. I dont think its asking too much for members of congress who are making money from the taxpayers who are going to washington to serve their country, to say, okay, during this time when im doing this, im not going to bet the stock market. Okay . So one of the other things that one of the other ways to invest is owning property and very much enjoyed your details in the book about. The Affordable Housing crisis champions on the left, the house also being rental property owners. Yeah share a little of that right. Well so land is a kind of Insider Information on land, right. So this goes back there was a story about in the book about dennis hastert, former speaker of the house, who bought up a whole bunch land before a big highway going through. He actually had an earmark and a budget or something and so this this goes back forever. Right. And that is just thats what thats so corrupt. Yeah. Compared to just being a member of congress who owns buildings where apartments are rented condos. Right. So this story that youre talking about more is more recent and it has do with the squad. And this is in the latin chapter and. So basically what happened is covid, there pressure from progressives to put a moratorium, evictions, you know, during covid shouldnt they said you shouldnt be allowed to evict somebody from their home which, you know i can understand that. But whats interesting is that these progressives then went out of the way to say, but we have to reimburse landlords, we have to pay landlords. If the renters cant pay, we have to pay the landlords that ill get i as a kind of a center right you know carlos that makes perfect to me but it seems a little out of step with what you think of the left. And it is interesting, right, because at least two members of the squad were landlords themselves and so its impos able to know if its selfserving, but it seems odd and its a little bit, you know, hypocritical and i would say convenient that. They were pushing for landlords to get more money, not the tenants. Yeah. I mean, it is it it is. I think landlords have taken a lot of heat from the left and we do have an Affordable Housing crisis. But at the same time people who want to invest their hard money in property, then they and then they have rental income. Yeah. Its, its, its come completely fair game. Its not inside trading and and its just its just interesting but the the i urge everyone to read the house floor thing that is just really the of what we send people to congress to to represent us. What are some other ways that people can get have easy access to outside income while there and what to enrich themselves while theyre in an office . Well, one way that i think seems underwhelming when bring this up to people, they they they dont seem outraged at this one. But its book deals. I think book deals are a big way. In fact, literally, you know, as were talking just couple of weeks ago, ron desantis became a millionaire because of a book deal. Now, ron desantis, about five years ago had negative net wealth. I think was like in the red, 300,000 or Something Like that as recently as six months ago, he had a net worth of about 300,000, Something Like that. Now is a millionaire and its because of a book deal. Of course, he wouldnt have the book deal if he wasnt in politics. And so thats the way that hes kind cashing in off of his the that hes accrued from politics. What makes it even sketchier, though, is that what happens is like a lot of these members of congress will write book and then instead of normal people wanting to go out and buy the book, there will be bulk purchases of that book. So youll have like a Political Committee by 5000 copies of that book, which will, number one, put it the bestseller lists, which could actually spark people, people buying the book and even possible that that the politician who wrote the book because of these fake will call them fake box sales theyre not organic that that they will make royalties or advances so theyre personally profit not because they wrote a great book that any normal people will ever read, but because Political Committees and super pacs and other will be buying it and maybe throwing them away or giving them away right. And and it wouldnt sell at the rate that a normal author could sell their books and and the rnc 2020 bought 300,000 worth of Donald Trump Jr books i read in the daily beast. So what is your solution . You have an idea how to treat book deals. Yeah. So right now, members of congress, a normal member of congress, will make. 174,000 a year salary, which is a lot more than the average american. And in addition to that, 174,000, theyre allowed to make and another 29,000 and approximately. 8 and whats called outside earned income. My proposal is that if you want to write a book, you can write a book. If you want free speech, you can can promote that book, but you cant make if youre in congress, you cant make more than that 30,000 toe. Itll that is set aside for outside earned income. I dont think that members of congress be profiting so much off of writing these books and you know, bernie, the classic example Bernie Sanders this guys a socialist and he became a millionaire. He wrote a book. And in fact, he literally im paraphrasing, but you could look up the quote its essentially someone him about it and he said i wrote bestselling book you too can be a millionaire if you write bestselling book. And im like, well, okay, bernie. But, you know, i have like the president ial campaign to like, you know, maybe help promote that best selling book and the distribution and write all publicity. Yeah, exactly. There are probably myths in the public about Congressional Health Care Coverage and pensions that you dispel your book and you make the case that members, congress and i agree with you are actually not paid enough. Yeah. Explain. So i wanted to first let me say i want to take away a lot of things from, members of congress. Right. I want to take away their ability to bet on the stock market. I want to take away their ability to take the revolving into lobbying. I want a ten year moratorium on that . Right. Im to take away their ability to get rich on book deal. So theres a whole bunch of things that i want to take away in return. I want to pay them more money to actually focus on their real job. And that sounds counterintuitive to some to some folks because, again, the average is making 174,000 a year. And thats a lot. Thats a lot more than most folks. But, you know, they have to travel back and forth in some cases, they have a washington dc is very expensive. They have the house in, washington, d. C. And a house back home. I, i begrudge them making making a good living. But but i would rather than focus on that than on the book and the stock market. But i forgot your actual question what was that . No, no. What about what about the fact that most americans believe that there they have a rest coverage theyre covered for life pension, life. Everything is lined up. You talk about that that is sort of misunderstood. Yes. And while we are talking about them being filthy rich and having access to other ways to enrich themselves, its a good thing that you that that you note that its not actually when it comes to health care and pensions, what people think it is so yeah totally and actually its one of the funny things about the book is i think this book is going to outrage some people who dont realize how bad it is and then its going to calm down some who are conspiracy and think its even worse. You know, facebook therell be Facebook Memes that will claims like theres a claim that as soon as you get elected to congress, youve got a lifetime pension like which is not true. What jorge santos. George santos apparently believed it, according to good George Santos content. And here he told a friend that if i just get elected, ill ive got to get elected. I have a lifetime pension actually it is. You have to at least five years to get a pension and then it kicks in at the age of 62. And yes, its a good but its pretty much commensurate to you would have if you were working in a nice government job. Its not its not its as crazy as glamorous as people make it out to be. Yes. Its good. But you have to serve a minimum of five years and you have to wait till youre 62. So its not outrageous as some people as might tell you and what about their health care . A huge issue for most americans, it is. Again, theyve got a good plan, but its not a you know, its not like utopia for them either, i do believe. And you might you might remember this better than me, but there was something i found thats the book that they can go to, like a Naval Hospital in, d. C. Physically for free treatment was some there was some weird loophole that and that would be awesome if you didnt have to be here. And if you were in d. C. But by and large, they have a Good Health Care plan. But its not worth getting upset. That is the that is not the top of my reason to be worried about filthy rich politicians. So you grew up in rural maryland. You live in West Virginia now what how did your background and your your your life, your journey influenced the book . Well, i think that, you know, so its about filthy rich politicians. And on one hand, i think its important to understand why normal americans, average americans, working folks feel like the system broke and feel like the game rigged. And its hard to do that if youre in a bubble. So i think by virtue of coming from the background i come from and living in West Virginia now its helped me stay in touch and be little bit more sensitive to of the populist vibe out there. And im grateful for that. And i think thats helped me the book at the same time, i think my experience working in washington, d. C. , where i worked for years in politics, has also led me to like realize some of these conspiracy theories are not true. There are a lot of really people who work in politics are really trying to do the right thing, who are trying do well, and so i thats reflected in this book. I do believe we need i do believe we need to be sensitive to the plight of working americans out there in the who who are upset. I dont want people up at their doorsteps with pitchfork books and letters as i write in the book. Id rather have them showing up with, well, resumes. And thats kind of the goal. Yeah, i, it really is important to to tell who are not with the system and congress up close that not all corrupt they are some are who are they are not all corrupt and there they are hard and theyre schlepping between to residences and trying educate their kids and see their aging. And it is a really, really it could be a tough for people who want who come in the system cooperation. So its very frustrating but it is a good gig, as you point out, for people who want to be crazy about it. You have so many good details in this book and my absolute favorite one is donald trumps, head of the Environmental Protection agency. Pruitt, who is as corrupt as they come. And people can people can look that im not im not wrong that he had a weird obsession with ritzcarlton hand lotion and sent staff out to buy it. Oh, it doesnt get better than that. But what i loved also ron paul, the former he ran for president , hes a former member of congress he refused to give his children allowance growing up hes of libertes and they pride themselves. He and his son, on being sticklers with their Office Budgets in the house and the senate. Yet, according to a 2012 report that you cite in your book he had paid more 300,000 in salaries or fees. Let me read this list. His daughter, brother, grandson daughters, mother in law, grand, and grandson in law. Talk about being on the dole. This is a real problem. It is. It really is and look, you could argue its like a your own Country Store and you hire your family theres a theres a sort of a romantic thing to this. Right. And even Bobby Kennedy, he was probably a Great Campaign manager for jfk. Should Bobby Kennedy have been the Campaign Manager . Yes. Should he have been the attorney general . No. Right. I mean, i think one of the things i call for in the book is banning the hiring of family whether its for campaigns or official, you know, taxpayer funded office. I just think its its its a bad look at. Some of this is is spouses some of it its kids i think it was Maxine Waters who paid daughter i think it was 80,000 in one year. Theres just a lot of ilhan omar directed more ilhan omar directed millions of dollars to her Consulting Firm and maybe hes a great consultant right. I dont know. Ive my wifes in the business i would hire her you know if i were running nobodys going to nobodys better nobodys going to care about me winning. Probably. So i understand that. But it also is a way to either have someone else pay to take care your neer do well kids or be funnel money into your own household, other money into your own household. Like i raise money from other for my campaign then i give that i pay my spouse as a consultant who keeps a certain percentage of that that goes back into, you know, if were married, thats in my pocket too. So its its not a good luck. And again a lot of this is looks maybe some of this is completely doesnt matter it smells swampy that erodes trust in the system and our officials so look how how do the family members of joe biden and donald trump fit into this conversation . I dont know if i compare them. One situation is worse than the other, but this is this is what we. Yes. What weve with the last two president s. First, let me compliment you on not getting to joe biden and donald trump. Halfway through our conversation, because i intentionally i couldnt it was impossible for me to write a book, not talk about them. But theyre not theyre not the main thrust. Theyre not the major fraud. Right. Exactly. But, you know, but a lot of people just want to hear about them. I think theyre part part of this story. Let me start with joe biden. Joe biden himself. Well, unless hes quote unquote, big guy. Right. And the hunter biden laptop, which has not been proven, has not been established. So im assuming that thats not true. Joe biden. So i dont know if hunter was lying when he was exactly into conversation. Im willing to believe hunter lies occasionally about that. It like yeah but joe biden actually was one of the poorer members of congress for most of his tenure he actually cashed in after leaving the vice presidency. He had about two or three years where he made about 15 million and things like speeches, book deals, speaking gigs, that kind of thing. Now, we may find out that there is a secret account somewhere to continued, but based on what we know, joe biden is one of the richer politicians. Hes rich compared to me, but hes not rich compared to most of filthy rich politicians. But the family thing with the bidens is really interesting. So its not just Hunter Joe Biden has two brothers, frank and james both of whom have recently, not just historically but recently traded on their brothers name and position to cash in themselves with speaking gigs and consulting fees and things like. So its not a good look, though. The atlantic had had a story which i quote in the book that way in 1988, when joe biden ran for president in 1988, he about 11 million, 20 of that 11 million went to paying the biden family. So biden has certainly been a part of this, spreading the wealth around to the family. But as you note, this is bipartisan phenomenon. Trump has done so many ridiculous, sketchy things that dont have enough time, which, you know, for me to get into. But i think the family is very interesting like he, unlike everybody else. Trump literally his daughter and son in law in the administration. So i think that makes all of this worse. Not only that, but, you know, his daughter had, i think, Something Like 16 patents that were faster than china. You know, kellyanne, who was a a official part of the trump administration, went on and flat out of wonkas and then the most egregious example, probably as well right after the administration ended, jared kushner, the president s son in law, got a two was it 2 billion investment from the saudi fund . So that looks very, very say what you will about the bidens but even if theyre guilty of everything were talking millions this is billions from the saudis. So first i look at these seven years, the 16 race, the discussion about the clinton all the way to say weve been bathing in nepotism and influence peddling and and from the children to the bidens and. Now donald trump is enjoying his president ial earnings like bill clinton did. And obama and Vice President ial post Vice President ial earnings that that biden did. But hes running for while earning money from the saudis have just become numb to this i think we have and i do think know you mentioned the clintons. The Clintons Foundation hillary was taking in foreign money at time when it was assumed that hillary would be the next president. So yeah, i weve become inured to this. I mean, i went back and looked after reagan, left the white house, he went to japan and made like 2 million on speeches. And i dont know if you remember this, abe, it was an outrage page. People were up in arms that reagan made 2 million, Something Like 2 million from giving speeches. And now that was thats chump change. Nothing. First of all, its perfectly on the up and up, you know, in terms of ethics and legality. But but the amount is just, you know, its a pittance compared to to our filthy rich politician. And today its amazing. So we just lost the capacity to be outraged. And as a result, i mean, talk a little bit about this, right as a result, we just expect were not were not policing them. We it. And then just gives rise to a lot of resentment, populist anger and but were not actually bringing back that those standards of what is really the bounds of reason. Yeah i think that apathy is a really bad because it means weve given up. I dont think that when we say weve gotten used to it, i dont think were happy with it. I think weve given up hope and you know i dont im not an historian im not an expert on rome. And that of thing. But in the book, i do i do go back a little bit and look at the founders of this country and of course, they were students of greece in rome. And why democracies or republics fall and fail. And one of the things one of the main things that they point to is Public Officials who are cashing is the grift. Exactly. And so, you know, i dont want to like be overall, but theres a danger that like if we want to preserve this miracle that i believe we have people cant people cant given up on are just all those are just of course politicians cashing and of course theyre getting rich of course theyre paying their families like at some point there will be consequences to that. At some point we should expect something more. We should. But youre right. And i with you that america is a miracle and that theres so much that you that im about to quote from your book that is that i think is really really uplifting but on a dark note like you are im very concerned about the effects of social media on our society, on our politics. And you wrote in last few years have led me to question my faith in the American Publics ability to vet, remove truly bad actors from public office. Can you elaborate on that . Right. Well, thats why i changed mind about something, which is term limits for my whole life my whole career. I have been against limits, partly because, i felt like while we have term limits, theyre elections every two years. The American Public gets to have a voice and the house of representatives every two years are. And if they like somebody, if somebody is doing a good job, like why shouldnt they be allowed to return that person to office. I also worried that getting rid of of politicians, pushing them out after a few terms would like this unintended consequence of a permanent bureaucratic bureaucracy where theres staffers and lobbyists become the experts who really run show theyre there forever. They dont go away. And then we just bring in these politicians and theres no way they could compete. So i for longest time, i was against term limits when i started writing this book, i think it pushed me over the top. And now i do favor term limits, and partly because it really mitigates the amount of a politician can do when it comes to cashing in and spreading the wealth around. You know, if you only have a few terms, youre not going to be able to really have generate, you know, wealth come from that opportunity. But social media is limiting the of our citizenry to have to know the truth and thats why its got be it is becoming harder and harder for them vet candidates for office and hold them accountable they can like you were talking about theyll just be a facebook and no one really know what is exactly about this guys past. We hope George Santos will be a tale. You write that the key to Institute Policies to mitigate our human nature and reward civilization, ethical behavior. Talk us some of the reforms that you are in the book. Well, first, let me say, think its important to kind of my worldview as a im a christian, maybe not a great one, but im one. Im a conservative, like to think im a good one. But a lot of people think im not a very good conservative, but as a you know, as a christian conservative, i have certain worldview, right . So i dont believe in the perfect ability of man. I believe that are we live in a fallen world and were not going to perfect and were not going to have perfect politicians. And so just like adam smith believed with economics, that you know, he didnt think he wasnt gordon he didnt think greed is good. He thought greed exists. We cant get rid of it. Its human nature. Therefore lets channel that into people being greedy. So they invent a cure for cancer or something. Right . Lets tap human nature as best we can. So thats the approach that take with the reforms that i am calling for. I do not think that we can fix the problem of filthy politicians or that we can in the corruption, right. I like murder is illegal, but murder still happen. But policies could affect the number of murders in terms of criminal justice reform. Similarly, when it comes to in congress, were not going to fix corruption forever. But i do believe that can help. So weve talked about few of them here. One of them would be banning individual stock trading for and their immediate family. Right now, we dont have the police. It was that Insider Trading or not. Well, you cant do it. So thats off the table. Same thing with book deals. If youre a member of congress, you can write a book but youre not going get rich. Youre not going to get filthy rich of off of writing that book and having your Political Action committee or, the National Republican Campaign Committee or whatever, by 5000, 300,000, however many copies were going to have term limits which will, if nothing else, limit the damage that someone could do if theyre hell bent on cashing in. There are a bunch of little things. Heres is double dipping on there are a lot of People Congress who are earning a pension from congress which seems fair right theyve worked their for x number of years and theyve earned it. But before that they were the state house where they were also earning a pension. So theyre getting two checks from the taxpayer. Theres thats the kind of thing that i would add i think that one more that i believe i mentioned earlier a moratorium on lobbying. Theres a lot of people who cash in as politicians and then they leave congress and they keep on cashing in on k street. I believe there should be right now its depending on whether youre in the house or senate. Theres a one or two year cooling off period. Some people like aoc and ted cruz on the left and the right would like to do a lifetime ban. I think there should be a ten year moratorium on lobbying. You shouldnt be able to like walk out congress one day and start lobbying buddies and your Friends Congress the next day. So theres a whole bunch of these outside of the book. And i dont think they will fix the problem. I think that they will begin to restore trust in the system and thats as good as we can hope for some. How can people who are sort of get involved with reform should they research them and try to see they can sign petitions to give them some agency . Step one is clearly by my book. Yeah, thats your guide. Yeah, i think this is not something that is really addressed in the book. Like talk about what reforms call for i dont lay out sort of how how would you be a grassroots activist but i think that rather than spreading very thin it be to focus on the stock trading because i think that is by the most corrosive thing that has happening and become you really care about this it should be a single issue voter on that and call your congressperson email them show up at their rallies or speeches whatever and talk about this part of the game is the messed up part. And ill let you in on a little sort of its an admission against interest. Its a not flattering admission by me. But as i was writing this book, there came a point where i started to be like, oh my, what if Congress Actually banned stock trading before my book comes out . Oh, no, im rooting against you. And but luckily for, me, there was no chance of that because though almost every member of Congress Says they even and even nancy pelosi see now has been pushed by the left into she wants to ban stock trading. Everyone says it but it never happens the bills quite write in some cases there might even be a poison pill put in there to make it untenable and everybody will say theyre for it. How do they actually vote . Do they make it a priority . And in addition to, lobbying, please to the rest of us how this particular species of person can raise vast sums other peoples money. A lot at the time. And then when the campaigns over use those to to bolster their brands and their careers. Right. I think a lot of people dont know that those dollars actually stay with them. Yeah well you know it used to you would know this and most americans dont know until like around 1980 members of congress could raise millions of Campaign Dollars and retire and keep the money. Personally, there was nothing illegal about it. They could just transferred into their personal bank account and say, so things have gotten better right . Then there used to be. But were talking about people who leave congress but keep cashing in. Weve talked about lobbying. Thats the number one way. And its Something Like a third, a quarter to a third of members of congress go lobbying after they leave. On top of that, we have people who start these foundations, right . Weve talked about the clinton foundation, but members that you dont have to be the president to start a foundation. You could start a foundation if youre a former governor, congressman, thats another thing. But what were talking about right now are basically members of congress who raise hundreds of thousands of dollars, millions of dollars for their and then they retire and theyve still got all this money over. Its amazing. And rather than giving it to a charity or just giving it away right now to the party or to other candidates or whatever would be legal, they keep that money and. The reason they keep it is that theyre allowed to basically give it out over the course of years. So you essentially be a bigwig. You could say like, you know, i ron desantis or, you know, i like Vivek Ramaswamy and so im going to go using my money. The campaign money, someone elses money. But now its mine. Im going to go stay in orlando for a week and go to this retreat. And then while im there, im going to give him 1,000,000 or whatever. And now im treated like a bigwig. I get to pretend that im a big, rich donor. Its not really my money, but i get to live the lifestyle with a whole chapter in the book about the some of this. You know, theres Different Reasons people as different definitions of being rich you know, some people want to be rich because they want to say safety and security for the rest of their lives. You know, some of them want to just go to ritzcarlton or what was the hand, you know, they want eat it like a diplomat, fancy restaurants and want to be treated well. They want to go and rich vacay vacations that are funded by Campaign Dollars or taxpayer dollars, depending on how they work it. It could go either way. And so and then then i think theres also the attention now more than ever, where people are. Theyre rich not just in dollars, but theyre rich in terms their social media clout. And certainly that is a big motivator for a new breed of politician. Yeah, i remember, governor Bob Mcdonnell of virginia, he and his wife just wanted to go to those golf clubs and it is part of it, as you describe the book, theyre hanging out with people that are really wealthy. And soon, pretty soon they feel they should have a driver and a car pick them up as well. And they should play tennis at that country as well. Its kind of it you have any politicians i was interested about the Mitch Mcconnell some the marry into wealth and its not that its its the business deals theyre doing but its spouses or theyve inherited great sums thats a lot in fact i rank at the end of the book iraq whats not i didnt wreck its Business Insider ranked the richest 25 members of congress. And then i went in and sort of explained how they got their money and more than half of them either inherited it or married into money. And so like and a lot of cases its rich father in laws to like Richard Blumenthal his father in law is peter malkin he essentially owned Empire State Building at one point youve got mccall, all congressman mccall out of texas texas. I think his father in law owns Clear Channel or Something Like that. Mitch mcconnell, after being a us senator, he marries elaine chao. Thats where his money comes from. This is interesting because there is a Conspiracy Theory thats like i now would add, Mitch Mcconnell suddenly gets rich. And the answer is that his wifes mom died and he and her and then they a lot of money and so like on one hand its swampy on the other hand its not nearly as crazy and conspiratorial as some people would have you believe. Not at all. I mean, they they just inherited a bucket. Yeah, it is. There are all these. Yeah. Conspiracy theories. Rokita is another example. A very prominent young, i think, california congressman. Most of his money is from his wife. But look, theres a tradition this Lyndon Johnson would not have been president without lady bird johnsons dowry. Right. So. Well, you are youre optimistic, which i really appreciate. As ive said several times, you write in todays politics on both of the aisle, it seems the cool kids have settled on a false choice. We can look the other way. More and more americans lose in institutions or we can wise and start a revolution. I prefer the third option to acknowledge our problems and fix them. Thats case for tax reform. So lay it out for us right so you know again, just im not an expert on the stock market. Im not an expert on tax law. But you dont have to be to know that youre getting i wont use a bad word but the american normal americans who work for a living are getting the short end of the stick. The way it works is if most your money is derived from investment income, you end up paying a lower rate than those of us who actually work for a living and earn a salary and it just so happens that most of the money most members of congress have earned from investments, not from a salary, therefore, your filthy rich politician, generally speaking, is not only richer than you, not only 12 times richer than you, but pays a lower tax rate than you or me, or their member, their average constituent. And i think i think thats wrong. Im not saying that we should raise there. Id like im generally in favor of lowering taxes, by the way, but i think everyone should pay the same rate that the guy, a carpenter or a plumber shouldnt, pay more money than someone who made a smart investment off of microsoft or tesla. And i think it would go a long way toward restoring trust in, the system, if that were the case. And the way i should say that there was a to fix this problem fairly recently. Excuse me and it was Christian Cinema who stopped it right. Thats an interesting thing. Right that you write in there that its great for the people who are in congress to it the way that it is. But maybe it would make a great outsider president ial campaign. It would. So finally, you say my most important advice is not to succumb to bitterness and given a choice, naive trust in the american system and cynicism toward the fat cats in the ruling class, trust is better. Why should still trust . Well, first of all, let me say that i hope that people who are angry, who are populists, who read this subtitle and love the subtitle. The book. Right. I want them to buy the book. I do, too. And want them to go like, lets give it to nancy pelosi. Lets give it to richard burr. Those fat cats, class latte liberals. Its fine if you go into this fired up, but my hope that you will be fired up enough to push these reforms without in engaging in the politics of victimhood and bitterness and envy and if for no other reason, not only is that toxic for the nation, its really bad for you as an individual. Like if you that the game is rigged against you and that nothing theres nothing you can do to get ahead and that the fat its already its over. It started that. Doesnt lead you anywhere. Good. So politics is important. Its worth fighting for. Dont let it drive you crazy. Well done. Thank you. Thank you so much