Transcripts For CSPAN2 Inside 20240704

Once again happy to represent georgetowns native American Law Student Association and as copresident. Big thank you to our speakers today for coming out. Personally, im a enrolled member of the oglala sioux tribe from south dakota, but im originally from minnesota. Minneapolis, minnesota, the birthplace of the American Indian movement. And yeah, its my honor today to. Welcome you all. First of all, thank you for filling out georgetowns various requirements and policies and everything, but most importantly to our three speakers today we have sharon wyatt leonard, author of the book i will, which covers the early history of the American Indian movement and Dorothy Ninham former tribal judge for the United Nation and also features prominently in the book and last but not least, kevin sharp former Federal District court judge and Leonard Peltier is attorney. So without any further ado, thank you once again for coming out. Ill pass it on to our panelists. Thank you, grant. I want to say thank you. Deeply grateful that youre here and youre given your time. A very unique story combination of stories. In 1997, i talked to Leonard Peltier for the first time. He had a cherokee friend that introduced us, timberwolf. It was telephone, of course. It went on for quite a while, i would say almost a year before i actually was able to meet with them. The experience for me started like this. My husband also an attorney, came home one day and i said id heard a story about someone who was called Leonard Peltier. Thats what id written them. Thats how little i knew. I like to keep that piece of paper. He immediately said, do you mean Leonard Peltier . And i said, you know, youve heard of him. He said, i dont think you graduate from law school in america and youre not aware of the peltier case. I thought that was interesting. He said, if you want to get people to listen to this story, find a law school anywhere in america and youll get people to listen. So we picked Georgetown University law school back in that day, and we did come in. Peter matheson came, spoke, he wrote in the spirit of crazy horse. So wonderful book. Warren allman came, who was minister of justice, came all the way from canada, bill styron and his wife rose. The bill wrote sophies choice. Big supporters harvey arden came, who was the editor of prison writings. Also important. So it was a wonderful panel. It was a long time ago and a lot happened next. I was told youll need a similar to get in to meet Leonard Peltier in leavenworth. Its not likely to happen. Oddly enough, with the way that the rules were sometimes arbitrary, larry, they allowed a prison powwow that someone organized pottawattamie lady and they said, no one can come in to the powwow thats on is visiting list only people that arent on the list. So interestingly enough, i didnt qualify for that list. I qualified to go into the powwow. I remember going through the underground of this big structure and being told that most of the time visitors never see past the front door. But because the powwow was going on in a gymnasium, you could hear the drum all through those tunnels and we got to really see the whole structure. It was very powerful, very moving, very important. I remember we were told, dont ask anyone how long theyve been here. Dont ask them what theyre here for. You wont like the answer and the drums started and are very young, man. I mean, he looked young enough to be my son. Started quivering and shaking the minute he heard the drum. I couldnt help it. Being a mom, i said, are you here for very long . And he answered, i know. I get out in six months, but i didnt think i was going to be able to make it. Ive been here 20 years. I heard the drum and i realized that if its out there, im going to be okay. And that kind of changed everything. I just thought, this is very important. So the work went on for quite a while. Phone calls back and forth. Got to know leonard pretty well that way. He had to, you know, live through your day. Frequently you would hear, you know what i would say, how is your day . He would say the same. How is your day . What went on in your day . What are you cooking for dinner . How are the kids . That kind of conversation. We noticed jim and i, my husband, not only being an attorney, he worked with doctors and the atlanta area, Emory University and he noticed that when he visited leonard that his jaw was frozen open, that he was even eating awkwardly. He mentioned he had migraines from this condition. Many people worked on trying to get him a proper surgery to correct it. They were able to get a doctor from mayo clinic saying if he could come to him, he would give him the correct surgery. And again, many people had worked on this for a period of years trying to accomplish it. We went to congressman john lewis for help a local amnesty represent a tip got us in. Ray jenkins. We went in and congressman lewis said, well, hes not really from modest sect, but he had a granddaughter that was living with this cherokee family and he made the exception and he heard jim out with the medical records. This was really important. He could come down with stomach cancer as all kinds of testimonies were given from people who tried to help, saying it should not linger. So he wrote the appropriate letters. He called this back in in a couple of weeks, and he said, i have a letter to read you. The letter said that mr. Peltier didnt have any medical issues and hadnt complained of having any, and that the information soon was not correct. So i remember just jim kind of his mouth opened. He was kind of dumbfounded, like, how do you get misinformation to a congressman . And remember, congressman lewis just called, leaned over and patted upon me, like comforted them, like, its okay. Im going to write a letter and say im going to go see for myself. Im going to take some other congressman with me. Overnight, leonard was flown to the mayo clinic and the surgery was performed and it put us on a whole other plane with, wow. This is important and its not easy and its going to take some time and some building. And a lot of people, again, worked tirelessly on it all the time, year in year out, and its important you feel rewarded doing it. I started collecting stories from him that focused on his childhood, mainly what was interesting to me, the humanity that i think can get lost when its a big case because its about saving his life. Its about the rules. Its hard to get in, but the stories were awesome. I remember at one point he was working on prison writings at the time and i commented on solitary sounded so harsh in his book, but he hadnt complain of that to me. And at that point, he said, always kind of put me at ease. He said, theyve been putting me down there since i was nine years old. How bad can it be . Said nine years old. Was there a solitary when youre nine years old . And i realized back later he was talking about boarding school for the first time. And we started going from there all the way through his fishing rights struggles and many stories. It went on over a period of years. The lompoc trial stories were some of my favorite because you could tell that, you know, native people had come from all over the country and canada to be there. They filled the rows. Roberta black coat pulls up and arrested out. School bus says big mountain or bust and got out with ribbons, shirts and a basket and even the judge letter changed their clothes. He said what can you do . Its a grandmother, you know. And people cooperated. Then there was a buffalo altar that was put on the lawn that the police came up and said, you got to move that. And Leonard Crow Dog did not want to move it. He had already prepared it. They had a permit. He said yes, but youll hurt the grass. That always stood out to me like, well, the greatest environmentalist in the world. Theyre going to hurt the grass. They actually started roving with the buffalo after he said, and moved it around the lawn and had people up under this £200 robe and complied. It was quite an awesome side. And peter mathis in i attended and later talked about how he decided to write his book with some of the things that he heard there. And bill hazlitt shared with him and some files. So it was extraordinary stories. Again, always a Human Element that when i met Dorothy Ninham about eight or nine years ago, i said, you know, im interested in all the days that happened before the things begin to escalate. I want to know the humanity. Thats the families and the people that love and draw to this. And i interviewed 15 members of the American Indian movement over that period of 20 years. Ethel pearson in canada stands out. Then leonard started saying, youve got to meet dorothy. And wow, i did. He actually introduced us. I commonly reminder that if shes in the story so much, its leonards fault. He thought of it, and shes been wonderful. So with that, id like to pass to dorothy and say she is well, she. She survived. She said something recently to me when we were at a symposium to fight heroin on the reservation, which has always been an interest of hers. Traditional methods to bring healing and there was a big screen into the simple, beautiful young girl who said she had survived heroin for 18 months. She had become a counselor. She was helping others said socialize. It looked like it was still very hard for her. And dorothy leaned over to me and she said, shes a survivor. Why is she up on the screen . Why isnt she here with us . And why isnt she in our circle . She survived it. Shes the only person i want to listen to. Theres a survivor in the room, and i thought i was going to have to introduce dorothy sim. And i wanted to say, wow. Dorothy survived milwaukee red ghettos and third chapter in an American Indian movement and went to wounded knee and arrested pickup truck in the frozen winter. Of 1973. But she didnt just survive. Her granddaughter reminded me, jessica. She said she thrived so much happened with those occupations and attention that was brought that still making a difference today. So the survivor and the thriver Dorothy Ninham. Hmm. Yeah. Im dorothy from the milwaukee ame milwaukee chapter. And i think one of the reasons that we started the American Indian movement in milwaukee, we agreed to carry on is i remember one weekend when dennis, clyde, Vernon Russell came in in milwaukee and they met with my my husband herb and they were talking about the movement and all my life, i think ive been raised to i wasnt culturally raised. I lived on i was born on the united reservation. And of course, your neighbors were brought to wisconsin with an episcopal priest. So we werent into culture or anything. We didnt bring any of that with us. And i talked to sharon about it, and i said, theres something in our dna that knows that were different. I always wanted something different. I wanted to be who i was meant to be and not go. Go to churches. Go to anything like that. I wanted. I wanted to be native. I wanted everything that went with it. And so when i moved to milwaukee, i was 18 years old. And i met a moved and met her married herb and we started the American Movement chapter after he was sober for like six months. And we started as a movement for sobriety. It was called the American Indian council on alcohol and drug abuse because i felt like in order to raise a family, in order to survive, we had to be sober. I never drank in my life and never got into that kind of lifestyle. And i kind of surprised myself when i was older that i didnt get into it because everybody in our community did. It seems like that was the only entertainment or whatever it was on the reservation or bars. So bars and churches and so when when dennis and those guys came, you know, i told her that i thought it was a really good thing that you know, lets go after our culture. You know, we need to join the movement thats going to stand up and demand that we be who we are. Because wed already been fighting the schools in milwaukee who were having a fight with they were doing the desegregation at the time. And so what the White Communities would do is they would count native people as white and the black communities would count natives as black. So when the busing started, they wanted to bus our kids back and forth. And i remember herb having a big meeting with a lot of the officials, and he said, you can you know, this fight is just black and white. Its not with us. Were not involved in this fight. You know, were going to our kids are going to go to school. We want them to go to school. And youre not going to dictate to us that they have to be a part of whatever your numbers are. We dont play em. So we were always involved in that kind of struggle to try to keep the get the culture there. And when we started our alcohol program, we met some medicine people from south dakota. We met learn crow dog first. And right after we started the movement, we did a takeover of the coast guard station down in milwaukee and we were able to keep it. Herb went to dc, flew to dc, and he met with brad patterson, who was nixons assistant, and native affairs, and he met with them and somehow, for some reason he took a liking to herb and agreed to help us. And so we had that land turned over to herb as and we put signs up. It was our native reservation. So we had an Indian School moved on to there that my sister in law had just started. The Indian Community school and we also made a Halfway House for people who are recovering and we boarded it off and native people would come down there on weekends and wed have, you know, like big feasts down there. Everybody just enjoyed it. It was right on the lakefront, real nice lakefront property. I know the neighborhood werent appreciative of us, but that was our land. You know, that was thats still part of our land. I consider it all all of our land, you know, anywhere. And i was telling sharon this. I said, no matter where anybody walks on this mother earth, if its east or west, south, north and and in the United States, thats Indian Country. There were walking on the bones of our people. Were all in that. This is ours. So no matter where anybody goes and tries to say this is, you know, whatever land that still belongs to the red people, you know, and i think that we need to remember that. And the other thing that i want to say is that in our red, people extend into other countries. Theyre theyre in canada. Theyre in mexico. Theyre all, you know, in the southern countries, because we dont we never considered borders. We didnt have our people dont have borders. You know, we welcome each other. And i think theres another thing about us that i was explaining to sharon that i had this adopted brother that came from pine ridge and moved in with me and my family in milwaukee. When herb was in prison for his involvement with wounded knee and and the struggle. And he said, you know, sometimes i think, you know, our family here, he said they really want to be indian people more than my people back home. He said theyre really trying hard, you know, to, you know, get the sweat lodge back at ceremonies, whatever it is that it takes, you know, this family here that ive adopted, he said they really want to be in india, really trying to live up to it, you know. And he said and what i noticed is that i can walk down the street. And he said it seems so different to me. He said, because ill see the white people walk in and they just keep their head down. Are they looking to another direction . And he said they dont look at each other. They dont greet each other. He said the black people, too, they dont they dont acknowledge each other. He said indian people across the street, if they see another one to shake their hand and say, its good to see you, you know, were all in this together, you know, and i really, really appreciated that. And and, you know, like i was saying that i, i really felt that as much as indian people, you know, dislike the relocation that happened to us, i was thinking about it and i said, you know, thats one good thing the government did for us is create that Relocation Program because it brought all different tribes into different areas. And we bonded with each other, we found each other and we were able to gather with each other. And thats how the movement is made up of all kinds of different tribal people, all different nations were coming together. But as a movement, were one. We have one. You know, we have one thought, one mind, one in spirit. You know, we look out for each other and i think thats you know, i think thats a really good thats what i love about it is is the cultural part. You know, i remember so many times that we would go home and some of the the Tribal Councils would say, you know, movement is nothing but thugs and misfits. You know, but it took those thugs and misfits to move this country and to get people off their knees and start fighting, you know, because since then we have the indian Child Welfare act that i understand were fighting again. You know, i remember fighting for indian kids, being with indian families before there was indian Child Welfare, before there was an act. And i remember fighting some social workers because they wanted to take this little baby that was reported to social services. Her mom was 13 years old. She was a 13 year old, adopted native girl. And she was kicked out because she wanted to recognize her heritage and she was adopted by a family in indiana. And they they called me and they said she just she just like her mother. She just wants to be drunk and she just wants to be, you know, going to powers and doing stuff like that. And theyre saying, we take her once a year, we go to powers. Isnt that enough . You know, and i felt really bad. And i told them, i said, you know, i guess it was really nice with for you when she was a novelty, when she was a baby, you know, shes a little and cute. But when she starts thinking on her own, you know, you dont want to put up with it. You know, you dont want her around. I said, if that was your own blood daughter, would you throw around the streets . You know, i dont think you would. But with this 13 Year Old Girl, they did. And so i had i found this girl and she was she was she was drunk. And the baby was and all and a little basket. And she hadnt been taken care of. I took the baby home and got her all cleaned up because social workers are coming the next day and they said they were coming to get her. So i was telling her, i said, theyre not taking this baby nowhere. You know, she isnt going. And so he was telling me, he said, you know, weve weve got our own children to take care of. You know, dont dont get too attached here because were not going to were not keeping her. So i let him think what he wanted to. But the next day, when the social workers came, they came in our office and i asked them what they wanted. And i had the baby with me and they said we came to get her. I said, you know, no, youre not. Youre not taking her nowhere. I said, you know, shes here because of your system, because of that 13 Year Old Girl that you guys took how many years ago, you know . So i said, you can take all the babies. It was there was it was a white social worker and a black social worker. You can take your white babies. You can take your black babies if thats what you guys if thats how you believe you do that. But youre not taking this native baby. So i said, so get out. You know, and so herb, who is an an officer ta da, closed her out commotions in there because when i was upset i can get real loud. And so he could open a door and he came out and he said, whats going on . And i said, the social worker think theyre taking this baby. And i said, and i told him, get out. And he said, he just pointed the door. He said, you heard her get out. So weve had we had we took the baby. We kept her. We had her three years. And they said, what about, you know, what about her mother . I said, well take her, too. You know, and we invited her to come and live with us. We said, if you want to be with us, you know, youre just like one of ours. Youre you know, youre just a young girl. You can come and live with us. And she chose a different lifestyle and was gone for like three years. And then she got herself together and came back and she got her baby. But i remember growing up, i chips family and i was talking to alice, was the elder and i was telling him that i had this baby. And i said, the mother said i should adopt her. And he told me, he said, you know, we dont have to do that. We dont have that paper to take care of our babies. We dont need that piece of paper. He said, just be whatever you have to be for her. If you have to be her mom now be your mom, auntie or grandma, whatever it is, take care of that baby. The creators going to really bless you because that baby is innocent and youre doing the best you can for her, he said. So dont rely on that. What a white mans paper, he said. Someday the mom might come back, you know, and. And really want that baby. And he said theyll have that bond again. So i didnt i didnt. I told her i wouldnt adopt or take care of her as long as she wanted me to. But when she was ready to be the mom, you know, come and be that mom. And she did, you know, so i was really happy with that. So our our part of the American Movement has always been for the culture and for the traditional way of life. You know, thats what we have. I moved back to my reservation in 1982 from milwaukee, moved back to oneida. We had the first sweat lodge on that reservation and i can remember people in the community saying, you know, what are you guys doing with a sweat lodge in your backyard . Or i just dont sweat. And i said, well, maybe you dont, but we do. You know, we have ceremonies. We put the first teepee up on that reservation, you know, and it still is there in my backyard. You know, we have a teepee meeting almost every weekend. You know, theres almost theres always ceremonies going on. And im im really thankful for this way of life. And im really grateful to the American Movement and the guys that were Strong Enough to stand up and say, you know, were not going to were not taking this anymore. Were going to stand up for treaty rights. Were going to stand up for all of that because i can remember some of the tribal chairmen were teasing these guys in leadership and they were saying, why do you go when you go to d. C. Carrying around briefcases . And i remember her telling his brother, who was a tribal chairman at the time, he said, we follow the tribal chairman around and we pick up that. He said, you guys get drunk and, you know, all over the treaties. We pick them up and we put them in our we got portable drivers. We drive off and we honor them, you know, so i remember, you know, what a big impact that started to have. So i dont know what and maybe sharon has Something Else she wants to talk about. But yeah, its been rugged way to get here. Its been hard, but its been so, such a beautiful way of life. You know, we had a lot of the leadership come to milwaukee to join us at the coast guard station and help us. I know leonard came down there when we had the Indian Community school and worked with me for a while doing that when we had our alcohol program. And i know the guys that thought they were big, bad boys out on the streets came in and they put up a gym, actually a ring, and taught the younger guys how to defend themselves, how to box. We had a boxing ring in our center and we had everything in there and we had the culture and we had my adopted brother, rufus. Rufus, hi. Come in there and teach beadwork and do things like that. We had someone come in and and teach the language and we had kids that came in after school and would come in and i always cooked for them. Ah, and then we started ordering meals so that they could come in and have a place to be warm and have food to eat. And you know, the one particular incident i remember as we were trying, there was a big blizzard and the streets were shutting down. The busses werent running anymore in milwaukee because the streets are so bad. And so these little kids, one of our counselors took them home. He dropped them off at home and the kid was coming back to the center. He didnt make it there before. Those kids beat him back to our center. And when they came back, they were all still carrying a little baby with them. And they said nobody was at home. And they were they were cold. They wanted to come in. So we kept the center open and said, you know, we cant i guess after that. That place in the storm, then thats what we needed to be and thats what we were. Thats what we were. You know, we try to take care of the young people. We were especially interested in youth because we wanted to get to them before alcohol or anybody else did, you know. And thats and now were on that same path trying to deal with heroin and all the issues that come with that on the reservations, because it is devastating our people. Ive had two grandchildren that died of an overdose in the past two years. You know, in the past week, ive known of two deaths of young people from heroin, overdosing. So weve been trying to work real hard because my goal is to try to get a a sober house, because wed like to build a Community Around that sober house where there where we can have the sweats, we can have the teepees, we can have dancing, we can have everything that we want in there that you know, for our young people to learn from, maybe even have someone teaching the language and and doing all of it because a lot of these people that are addicts are coming back into the community and theyre back with the same friends that they left with. And its only a matter of time. And there are oh, theyre falling back into that same way of life. And so what i, i understand about it is that, you know, they have to leave their friends behind or socalled friends, theyve got to leave them behind and cut all those ties, whether its family or whoever it is. Theyve got to let go of it until they can get their heads clean. And from talking to some of the people that work in that field, i understand it takes at least two years to get their brain back to thinking that they can be happy again. And because theyre looking for that high that they got with that first shot of heroin or whatever it was, the drugs that theyre using, theyre looking theyre chasing that high and theyre not going to find it. And we we have to keep them clean for at least two years before their brain recovers from the damage that was done to it. You know, so thats our goal. Thats a path were on. Thank you, dorothy. Thats wonderful to listen to you tell those stories. Brings back some memories of some of the things were able to learn at the oneida reservation, dorothy had some tribunals. One was the childrens tribunal, and that dealt with boarding School Survivors that came and gave their testimonies was really a powerful moment when Leonard Peltier wrote in his testimony from whomped in boarding school and the minute dorothy read it with all, i think the bell courts were there the means as dennis banks of course yeah midst walking out john thomas yeah the miller the the the testimony was read that leonard wrote dennis banks jumped up and took the mike and started telling his and something occurred to me for the first time that particular day i want to say that was 2013. All the leaders had seen boarding school pow wow, even the same boarding school most of the time. And then it was even mentioned from some of wilsons family that hed gone to boarding school. And i started thinking, wow, this historical trauma is waving through with relocation and termination. Another interesting dynamic was Leonard Peltier was at turtle mountain, of course, his place of his birth, and it was under terminate sion. And then came to help. In milwaukee, the menominee were under termination. He went out to his aunts to live in the portland area and the klamath were under termination. Its not an imagined thread. I cant imagine Walking Around hearing they want to terminate us. They dont want us to have our cultural identity and their case and how that would affect everything. Thats your life long and i would try to explain to my friends and family i see a portrait of abe lincoln. I think, wow, the hero, the emancipator. And you feel all warm and fuzzy. You hear leonard tell a story about the man, cato, and then we heard next is telling as well yesterday. Its like, wow, you dont see that hero. You see a mass hanging and where was the constitution when that was going on . You hear eisenhower talk about Relocation Programs started. Most of the assimilation programs and had made the state by the end of my administration, the only indian youll see is in a museum thats like, wow. And yet, like you say, turned it into a positive by reload, creating many nations were in one place and voices could rise up together and the movement became that voice. So the mechanic thats in seattle, thats Leonard Peltier. I dont know if youre familiar with the article that was in the seattle times. That opens with Leonard Peltier, the businessman because the article is about a young reporter interviewing this young businessman and Business Owner whos opened up to bays and has his mechanic shop. And hes doing really well. Hes prospering. Her palace was on a union line with 2500 men and, had a great job and a home. Dorothy and a beautiful family there, prospering there, not just hanging out is like they put a lot of wonderful situations on the side and took on a great risk because they believed in that protection of cultural identity worldwide. And can i Say Something . Yes, please. I just want to i just want to mention about the terminating the tribes that that was going to happen under nixon. It was going to happen to all of the tribes and because of the friendship that herb developed with brad patterson, i remember herb was sitting in his office and brad pattersons office, and here in d. C. And brad, they were talking about something brad asked him, he said, if i could do one thing for you right now, herb, what would you want me to do . What is that . And he said, i want you to reverse that. Terminate and the menominee have gone from one of the richest counties, our richest reservations in the state of wisconsin, to being the poorest county. They may turn them into a county and they are poor. And he said, you need to end that and turn that around. And within six months they ended that termination and. They returned the the reservation status or the tribal status back to the menominee reservation. And, you know, not too many people know about that. But i can remember i was pregnant with geronimo and we were we were walking the streets protesting those people that were selling off the menominee reservation. They were selling lands to people would come and buy lake lots and they put an end to that. And now i understand that the menominee have given the landowners that are sitting on their land. I think they had leases and they said that they were ending all of those leases and that and they were they were not going to renew them. So this is all going to be back to menominee land. So menominee territory so i was really happy to hear that, but also that they stopped terminating other reservations too. And you know, with the land return in oklahoma, that was really great to to hear about that. But i think the first we talked about this, the first land return was when they returned it to herb with the coast guard station and put it in our name. You know, it was an herb. Had to find a tribe to take ownership of that land so it could be in tribal status and we went to all of the tribes and and wisconsin asking them to take ownership or take the title for that land down there. And nobody wanted to do it. And so finally, the last tribe they went to were the pottawattamie and asked them if they would take a chance with that. And the pottawattamie did. And the rest is history. I mean, they are millionaires and i think there was a big article in one of our milwaukee papers about it, talking about how it was a what did they call it, turned it into a goldmine on. Yeah, occupation became and that article also something i thought was very important if you dont mind my mentioning that what a difference when there is an advocate with an activist and that unique case, there was a peaceful understanding, support. A lot went into it, a lot of hard work went into it to develop the Indian School is thriving on 17 acres. Beautiful. But the advocate and the activists working together that went on until of course, wounded knee and other things that began to escalate and we know policies that can escalate that termination, relocation and boarding school, all of a sudden the reversals start to happen slowly. But they did begin to happen when you dont have the advocate, it can go the other way. So i thought it was a very unique story, what happened in milwaukee is still progressing to this day, still thriving to this day and land back. Beautiful words and you know, that was the outcome there, if you can. Im sorry. Sure. Back up for a little bit, because may be people im sure there are people who dont understand how all of that is connected, why the coast guard station in milwaukee important and how is that related to alcatraz or wounded knee . And ultimately, how was that related to the take over the bia building . Right. Because all of those things, my understanding and i know there are a lot of people here who have lived this and know it, but ive been learning this over the last several years. And so how are all of those related . What was important about this coast guard station . It wasnt just picked out of the blue. There was a reason for it. And how is it related to all of the other takeovers or attempted or what the coast guard station. Theres theres a treaty that herb used with it that its a good thing that, you know, the United States government dont really know. Treaties are understandable because we use in 1868 treaty that talks about land west of the mississippi be that any a abandoned federal land reverts back to tribal ownership. Thats where its supposed to go. And so that coast guard station was abandoned by the coast guard station. And we went in and we took it over and we said, were using the 1868 treaty because thats what its supposed to come back to. The native people, and were claiming it, and thats what we did. I mean, there were still they had live forms in there yet, because i can remember the phone ringing in the middle of night and i picked it up and i said, this is the American Indian movement. And the guy said, i hope you dont know anybody overseas. But yeah, it those treaties that we have, you know, that assure that this land is supposed to be returned to us instead of sold off. I see theyre selling National Parks are putting them up for sale and doing all that. And thats whats really upsetting to me because those are supposed to go back to tribes because i mean, we never gave them up. They were taken. What the government did is they would condemn the land and was pristine land. They would condemn and take it for their own use, you know, and they would say, well, maybe we can make better use of it. And you see that there are some of those that land is devastated. And, and i dont know what theyre turning it into, but its nothing that some of us want back here in the miracle about what you all did. Im not sure if this is on or not. The miracle about that was. It hadnt happened before. No, i hadnt. Right. This was something that had been advocated every time the United States would abandon one of these locations that they had taken. And then it wasnt being returned as the treaty would require. Yeah. How how did you. Sorry. Share and im just i love it because im glad about this. How did how did you get the idea in your head that somehow this was the place to make a stand . What was it about the coast guard station . The coast guard had abandoned this and built a new facility, is my understanding. But i could be wrong about this. And in what was it that made you and or herb decide this is the place and and we have a chance . Or was it just we want to make a statement and you never thought you would pull this off . We knew were going to pull it off. Its just a matter. We were going to come out alive or not. But it was abandoned and it was it was a really its a really beautiful spot. Its a real beautiful location. You know, its right on the lakefront theres real high rises right across the street from it. You know, thats why i said the people that lived in the neighborhood probably werent happy that we took it over. But it was also making a statement because, you know, i was to bill means about some of the stuff and dennis and we were talking about how we were forced into a situation at that time you know we had to do something to get get attention, Getting National attention and. It wasnt you know, it wasnt easy it wasnt easy to plan it because you never knew if youre going to come out of it alive or not. You know, we never do and some of our some of our people, a lot of our people didnt you know, a lot of our people didnt come out alive, but we felt it was worth fighting for. We were trying to save something, get something for our young people. So these are younger generations. Werent going to have to go through the fight that we went through. They wouldnt have to be forced into boarding schools, are, you know, forced on to are anything like that. But, you know we wanted them to remember this is our homeland. This is the mother earth that we were assigned to take care of. You know, no matter where you look, no matter how far you see this country, you know, so im sorry again, im going to jump in because i have not met dorothy. Ive heard of her and i read about her in the book. And so i know some of these stories, but what you said there was we didnt know if we were going to come out alive. Exactly. And you had children. Yes. What is it about this movement or where you were at that time that made you say in spite what may happen to me and what that may mean for our kids, how did how did what made you do this . Well, i think, you know, i read somewhere that im not the one who said it, but i remember reading that if you dont find something in your life worth dying for, then what are you living for . You know, but the other thing that i, i was talking to sharon about this, the other night is, you know, when you meet native people and theyre not traditional people, theyre not theyre not cultural, theyre not in their native state of mind. Theres a look that they have in their eyes that youre looking at a dead end. And, you know, theres no theyre not there. And i would rather die fighting for all of my kids to have the look in their eyes that know that they know who they are. They know inside who they are. They know where theyre going and they know where they they came from. You know, were in this fight together. And, you know, thats i, i preach that to my kids, to my grandkids all the time, you know, ceremony, ceremony, ceremonies. Thats thats the only way youre going to survive. Thats the only way this mother earth is going to survive. If we start taking care of it, be the caretakers that we need to be, you know 100 take care of our water i mean, everybody read, you know, were willing to fight and die for the water. And youve seen the fight that that has come because of it. You with trying to pollute our water and go under the water and and do all of that kind of stuff. But you know what . I like say is that, you know, that its like the veins of the mother earth. It goes all over and the same water that my children drink on the reservation is going to be the same water that everybody else has. Children is going to end up drinking, too. So if youre going to pollute water, youre doing that to your own children. Youre doing it to your your generations that are coming. We cant afford to do it, you know, we just cant afford to do it. So i guess its at some point then that lead you to say im willing to ignore all the dangers and sign on with what the American Indian movement is saying and what theyre about, what the movement is about. More than a group. And thats what the movement is about, is saving our culture, saving our traditions, you know, saving our people, you know, getting to getting them to know who they are. So that they dont have to use alcohol, try to forget everything that happened to them, or use drugs to to try to be happy. I mean, you traditional ways of war do the same thing for you. You know, all we have are saying that, you know, we dont have a religion. We have a way of life, you know, and we live it every single day. So thats we want our children what we want to pass on. You know, this is a way of life. Its not its not and its not a joke. You know . Right. So ill ill share. And i got to ask you a question. Sorry, sorry. Ive got to ask you a question. And i think dorothy answered that question about to ask you, because we all just saw it. But what is it that that one led you to write this book . And how did you pick these for people to weave lives together and tell this story . A master. Its usually the first thing asked every time, and i always have the same answer. We were in before. Its always the same answer. Milwaukee picked milwaukee because i was looking for a place and looking for characters that could pull together as many stories as we could, cram into what i think of as a bedtime story i often tell people its a little book, but theres a big story. Theres so many other stories and books and people that that contributed to that moment. But those particular for a comic came out of the tribunals watching interact and having the amazing opportunity of getting to listen to Movement People who hadnt seen each other for many, many years get together and and share and have their own stories. And so those four emerged because they were close. I remember so many times i was dorothy because she was always very modest about it. But i said they were planning the trail of broken treaties in your kitchen. I mean, youre sitting at a dining room table and all these cars are pulling up in the snow. And and leonard was there. And how many times can you have everybody everywhere . I mean, her palace went to custer riots, which youre probably familiar with some of you its and its in many of the books and wounded knee of course and dorothy was at wounded knee. But leonard, because of the milwaukee story and this high profile moment of people in washington helping, there were lists made of people kind of be on the lookout for. And yeah, some false information went out and hes picked up and its years later before a trial comes to milwaukee, leonards already sentenced and in prison at the time, and it exonerates him. But its too late. Theyve been able to put a pattern and files and you know, the security guards that were part of the cia building occupation and it all just started to escalate. And i told dorothy, im really interested in all the years and the days that led up to the bad days and, the humanity there, and the stories that came from that. And i remember asking dorothy, i dont know how you think you can reclaim it. Its not like leon, how do you reverse verse something that was a for hundred year plan and a 50 year plan and she said the same way they took it away from us. And she pointed to ceremonies to the lodge, to the teepee with the native american church. Were going to get it back the way they took it away. And i thought, wow. And she believes it. And then you start over the last 20 years seeing evidence of this Rolling Thunder of rights and renaissance and all these voices coming out of wounded knee. So and i do remember roberta black, go back to the lompoc trial where everyone gathered because definitely got the sense the voices were being heard at these trials and on these Supreme Court vigils, steps and tribunals. And roberta black said if we could only find an honest judge, a good judge and lay leonards case out on the table in front of them, hed free Leonard Peltier. I dont think it was necessarily the way she envisioned it, but a good judge came along and has a story that can pull a lot together connect a lot of dots. So i now get to introduce you anyway. Thats judge kevin sharp, who has a story of his own about well, i hope i had to i had to step down and not be a judge in order to get involved in this case. What part of part of my involvement comes in after all of this, right . Thats after leonards life as a as a child on the reservation and after at nine years old, hes taken from his grandmother and sent to a boarding school. You know, after he escapes. And in returns after he spends three years there, sometimes in his own solitary confinement, as did dennis banks and as did wilson, who was leader of the goon squad in the the the the events that lead up to this firefight in 1975 and and one of the things that hit me as im learning about that piece of it and is that they all came out of this with their own trauma. And i include wilson in that he took his in a in direction that was. That was dangerous and detrimental to own people. But i think that that happened because of what happened to him as a child. And you cant discount that. You can condemn his. But but you can also, at least from my perspective, understand what happened and. Its all of those things. And sharon talked about this newspaper article. You know, Leonard Peltier was a guy trying to help his people. Thats it. He was a guy trying to help out. He had moved to seattle as part of of the the fishing rights protests, but there was nothing there was no violence happening. This was just a guy who was trying to help his people. And part of what he does while hes there is hes a mechanic. Hes learned hes learned to trade. And he starts this shop and they start helping the women there who are trying to get out of abusive relationships. Theyre to help others of their community with drug and alcohol problems. And that leads him into this movement. But coming into this movement and its an its a movement, not an organization coming into that you become a target. And you become a target of co intel, pro the the program, whatever you want to call it, within the fbi that is running counterintelligence and against our own people aim as part of that these individual has become part of that and so thats how he ends up in this in on this path thats going to lead him to pine ridge on june 26, 1975. Again, hes there to help his people. Right. Youve got the goon squad. Theres i didnt i didnt name them that they named themselves that guardians of the oglala nation. Right. They are now working with the government. Theyre working with the fbi. And by a and in Government Entities who want things that the traditionals have, who want leases, who want land, who want to keep a swat Training Facility thats on this reservation. And in leonard then runs headfirst into trying to protect the traditionals there have been over a three year period 60 plus deaths in in and around that area of people who were either in members or aim supporters. And theyre not investigated. No one is tried for that. In fact, there was one woman there who had multiple stab wounds in her back. Autopsy ruled the cause of death, suicide. I mean, thats how ridiculous it was. Nobody cared because in one sense to me and im somebody who came at this from the outside, im not it there was this element of vietnam, right . In all of this happens. You know, just months at least. Pine ridge just months after the end of vietnam. Thats the era that were talking about. But but it reminds me of vietnam because you drop kids into an area with guns, a around people that they see as less than, if not less than human, certainly less than themselves. And then they the traditionals as the government initially for help our people are being murdered. We need your help and theyre not getting they dont realize right off the bat that this is part of the plan. They think youre here, too. Youre here to help us. Help us. And they dont that help. What we learn is that they dont get that help because the the government, the Law Enforcement is working with the goon squad. Theyre providing them with the ammunition. Theyre providing with the intelligence. They are they are working to ensure that that group keeps the traditional natives. And so they call in and we need your help. And thats what theyre doing. Theyre at that time. Thats where they why theyre on pine ridge in june of 1975. And so the place is a powder keg. It was an area that had a handful of agents, suddenly has hundreds of agents, heavily armed. Something is going to happen. And i say this, that it happens to be june 26, 1975. But but what happens there that day is inevitable. The day may not be, but when when your government treats your own citizens that way and treats the native americans who live in that area, in that way, theres theres going to be an explosion. Somebody is going to get killed. Its just a matter of time. And they knew it. Right . Everyone everyone knew theres a theres an author named paul bird who wrote a book called sandras hands. And he had come out of the army as the navy, rather. I should remember that as a navy vet, he came out of the navy in Naval Intelligence and then went to work as a teacher for the cia. And he tried to warn them, warn the warn the bia fbi that was there. Right. You guys have got to back off. Youve got to get control of this. Youve got to get control of your people or its going to explode. And it did. It did explode that day. And, you know, its a 1975. They they end up to agents named williams and coleman pull up onto pine ridge. Theyve radioed in. We dont have recordings because they didnt do that in 1975, but they radio in that they are trailing a red pickup truck that fits the description of a of a vehicle owned by a man named jimmy eagle whos wanted for stealing a pair of cowboy boots. Now, i question whether or not the fbi even has jurisdiction over that, but lets assume that they do have jurisdiction. But theyre in unmarked cars. Theyre in plain clothes. One of them is even wearing moccasins. They dont look like the pictures of the young men in suits and ties. And so when they pull onto the Pine Ridge Reservation in the jumping bull ranch, trouble starts. Right. But its this red pickup truck. And so. A firefight happens. That firefight lasts for 10 minutes. Three people are killed. The two agents and a young man named joe stuntz, young indian, i believe hes 21, 22 years old. So i apologize to those of you over 21 or 22, but im going to call him a kid. And so theyve got to prosecute someone. Now, leonard makes way to canada, right . They they they end up within minutes surrounded by 100 plus agents and they escape the. Butler bob rabideau, Leonard Peltier and a group of others some kids are able to escape. Jean, whos here . Jean, in the back was 12. Jean roache was there along with her younger brother. So, you know, their are able to to make their way out now rabideau and butler are are taken into custody and theyve been indicted for the murder of two agents. Leonard makes his way to to canada and the canadians wont extradite him because there is no proof that leonard shot these two agents. And so leonards in canada while the government tries to get him back. The. The case is. Is given to a judge named mcmanus and mcmanus decides nothing wrong with this, that he is going to go ahead and try to of the of the defendant. Hes going to try rabideau. Hes going to try butler. Theyll do it separately and then theyll wait and see what happens with Leonard Peltier. Ultimately, the jury that hears the case decides that rabideau and butler are not guilty by reason of selfdefense. And so theyve got one person left, Leonard Peltier, and they got to get him back. So thats the thats kind of i say this story is not about the 10 minutes of a firefight. This story is about the hundreds of years that led up to it. And its about the after it. Thats what is the most troubling about all of this. That 15 that ten minute firefight. It was a series of stupid, stupid mistakes that led to people dying. But its everything before it and everything after it that happened. And i came to this to this case, and someone who knew nothing about it. Right. I had been a federal judge and had only been on the bench. I was appointed by president obama, had only been on the bench for six years. And i ran head first into into what are known as mandatory minimum sentence. Right. So thats where congress decides that judges are incapable of doing their jobs, which is the most important one. Sentencing people. And theyre going to tell you how to sentence people. And i what i saw was this sentencing that had nothing to do as a separate from leonards case. But leading into why i stepped down sentences that have nothing to do really with the crimes that have been committed or the individuals. And thats what sentencing is all about. Right . Youre sentencing the individual and im forced into giving sentences that are way more harsh than the circum stances call for the individuals should be sentence and so i end up sentencing three individuals, one of whom was only 23 years old, to life in prison for a nonviolent drug offense. And thats when i say enough is enough. This this. I am not going to continue to do this right, because in order to become a federal judge, you are investigated by the fbi. Youre vetted by the white house, youre vetted by the department of justice. You are investigated again by the Judiciary Committee in the senate and the fbi. Well, i mean, the fbi the the senate has its own fbi agents attached to that. And then the aba will do its own check of you right. Theyll do a survey. And among the bar and among the lawyers, all of that for one purpose. The only purpose of that is to is to ensure that you have the intelligence, the judgment, and the temperament to be a judge, to make the most important decisions that a judge has to make, which is those decisions that affect someones liberty. And so ive gone through all of this. Im voted unanimously confirmed by a republican controlled senate. This guy knows what hes doing. And then when it comes time to make that most important decision, they go now youre going to youre going to sentence these kids to life. And thats where i go all right. Im out and i start to advocate for one of those young men, the 23 year old that i sentenced to life. I then turn around and start helping. On his clemency application, which we ultimately are successful in getting with president trump. I dont know how much of that was me or how much of that was Kim Kardashian because kim guard ashton hears about this case and she then starts to help and she gets us a meeting with president trump. And so its its president trump. Its ivanka, its jared. Its Kim Kardashian and and van jones are all in the oval office talking about these clemency issues. That then becomes a story. I was walking by the white house with a friend of mine and i said, you know, one of the things that happened, im walking out of the white house with Kim Kardashian and one of the secret Service Agents that works there protecting the protecting the president. The white house sets his gets a friend of his to hold his weapon while he takes a picture with Kim Kardashian. Oh, wait a minute. Pick that weapon back up. You got youre here to protect us, but that becomes a story, right . Not that not that some former judges in the oval office with the president , but the Kim Kardashian is there that story gets read by willie nelsons exwife, connie nelson. And connie then says, somebody send that guy leonards file and see if he can help with clemency and so when i get that file or those files, i dont know anything about Leonard Peltier. I dont know anything about the American Indian movement. Ive heard a little bit about it. I barely know anything about the the treatment in the interaction between the United States government and the native americans. Because unless you go out searching for that information, youre not going to learn it in school. You get about 15 minutes of of a sanitized story about the trail of tears and only the the cherokee version. And then thats it. You dont learn about anything else. And so when i sit down with the file of the United States versus Leonard Peltier, i have no precancer seed notion of how this ought to turn out. What happened, why it happened. I just reading and i read some newspaper articles to get a general sense of what this is about i start reading the opinions of the courts of appeals to find out what kind of what were the issues that came in. And then i start reading the transcripts and im reading this as. A former federal judge whos only been off the bench for a two years, maybe less than two years. And so as i read this my thoughts are, oh, my god, how are we still talking about this case . I start to see that. Wait a minute. First, how did you get Leonard Peltier out of back from canada . Because you had no evidence that he shot anyone they did that by lying. They did that by getting a woman named myrtle poor bear to sign multiple affidavits saying im his girlfriend. I there i saw him do it. That was one of them. There were other affidavits that were inconsistent with that. But ultimately that was their proof. The only problem was murder. Poor bear never met Leonard Peltier. She wasnt there that day. Wasnt his girlfriend. She didnt know anything. Those events, except for what she had heard later. And she had never even met Leonard Peltier until one day in court. That was the first time shed ever seen him. And when asked, why did you sign this affidavit if it wasnt true, she said, because i was threatened and intimidated by the fbi if i didnt sign this affidavit. They were going to take my child away from me. Was that an idle threat . No, not if you know anything about the history of the government ability to take native children. So it wasnt an idle threat. You better be afraid and you sign this affidavit. But the whole thing obviously going to fall apart after leonards. Now, leonards to the United States as as the us attorney or the assistant u. S. Attorney told the court later theres not one scintilla of truth in this. Now, his explanation and because the Canadian Court wants to know why this false affidavit was. Well, his explanation is because her fbi controllers, thats his term, her fbi control, hers did this. We didnt know anything about it. Well, heres where my a federal judge comes in and go. I know thats not how this works. I know that us attorneys dont take affidavits from fbi agents and just file them. Thats a thats not what happens. So i believe that the us attorney was in on this and they were in on that the entire. But now youve got to convict him, youve got him back. There is no remedy. Youre not going return him to canada because we lied to you. So thats where they you know, youre youve now got it and thats what they want. But what they dont want is judge mcmanus to try case because judge mcmanus, in evidence of fbi misconduct he allowed in evidence of what was known as the reign of terror right so when he allows in that evidence as one of the jurors who acquitted rabideau and butler said, we were more afraid of the fbi than we were of anyone associated. The American Indian movement. Right. It gave a reason when two guys in plain clothes, in unmarked cars. Come on to the reservation with with guns, that there is a reason. Theres a firefight is going to start right. We know that there were 60 individuals who had been killed and nobody was investigating this. We know that members of the goon squad were involved in this. They are going to protect themselves and its why they were there. And no one should expect anything other there. So when judge mcmanus lets that in and has a fair trial, rabideau and butler are acquitted, they cant have that. And so the case is transferred to a judge named benson in. Now, i have looked for that order that transfers this case. And i cant find it. And i dont feel bad about not finding it in my Research Skills because judge mcmanus was not aware of it either. I saw an interview with him before he died when he was specifically. How did that happen . And he says, i dont know. The case was just taken from him and transferred to fargo. Now, the other interesting thing is theres an fbi teletype that shows that the fbi and the u. S. Attorney met with the judge benson ex party about this case. Yet another reason judge benson should not sit on this case. Judge benson then says to the fbi, not on trial. Leonard peltier is on trial. Were not going to hear about any of reasons that somebody might need to protect themselves. And so all of that evidence is kept out. Now, at some point, the fbi finds a shell casing. It not the first time they examined the scene and not the second time they examined the scene, but but later they find a shell casing and. They put on the stand their ballistics expert who says, you know, we didnt do a firing pin test. That would be the best ballistic test we could do. But weve got a shell and we did a shell casing test. And that comes from the weapon that Leonard Peltier had. And thats their case. Its a shell casing. Now, theyve also got some boys in Norman Patrick brown is still alive. Hes he was one of them. They were 15 years old, threatened. And intimidated to testify that they things that they did not see now they had recanted all of that in the first trial. So. When they took the stand in the second trial, judge benson them from talking about having been threatened and intimidated to Say Something that was a lie previously. So again, to keep out any evidence of misconduct by the fbi and by the u. S. Attorneys office. But ive spoken to norman, whos still alive, who said i was you know, it had these, you know, reminiscent of george floyd that norman told me one of the agents took his knee and put into his neck, letting him know that you were going to testify. By the way, we need you to testify. But but, norman, to credit recanted that testimony in the trial, kept out of the second trial that that he had been forced into saying these. So were back to theres one piece of the evidence that theyve got shell casing now the jury is shown autopsy photos its got nothing to do with who pulled the trigger but its meant to inflame the jury. The jury, the judges is told by the fbi about threats that had been made alleged threats by members of the American Indian movement in a way to frighten the jury, let them know these are dangerous people. And so that that sways the juries thinking. But one of the most incredible things that i saw as i start reading the transcript i get today to, im just in day two of this thing. Its you know, its a transcript of everything that everybody says from beginning to end, gavel to gavel, you know, like its court tv. Were going to see it all and on day two. Three women show up to the court they have nothing to do with this case, but theyve got a piece of paper. They knock on the door. Wed like this. We need to talk to the judge. Theyve got a piece of paper that have all signed and had it notarized. It says, we know one of your jurors. Shes a friend of ours, we work with her blue cross blue shield. And she told us in the cafeteria one day that she may be selected sit on this jury and that shes prejudiced against indians that there those were their words. This is your juror and they come in the judge calls them in. Each one comes up to testify or under oath to tell the court what they what happened with this juror. And they all tell the same story. Were in the cafeteria. She tells us. Were going to be part of this trial, this guy that killed these agents and, you know, im prejudiced against indians. So these are the women are excused. The court calls in that juror and she she takes the stand and were going to ask her some questions. And you think she would say, no, no, they misunderstood me or i never said that. And instead she says, yeah, i said that. And its true. You think were done. You know, ms. Clock, you were excused. And instead the court says, and i tell you, the amount of time that im telling this story is about the amount of time that it took in the court that day. The court says, well, you know, this is a really important case do you think you can set that prejudice aside and be fair . And she says, yes. And i brought a piece of the transcript because. It is its its hard to to remember exactly what leonards say, but then says not leonard, sorry. His lawyer says, id like to put a limited number of questions to the juror. Your honor, the court says you may and heres his question and i have to read it because its so do you understand that you will have to make a very serious, conscious effort to make sure that the opinion which you have an express doesnt does in any way come into play in this case, because the seriousness of the consequences and she says i do and he says were satisfied. I didnt understand that question. And if he meant what he said hes asking, will you go back to the jury room and be prejudice . Im sure its not the one he meant to ask. And guessing that shes answering the question that she thought he should have asked. But thats not what happened. And thats his one question. And hes and he says, were sad as find your honor and thats it. And she stays on. And as im reading that, i turn to the i turn to the back. You go surely somewhere. This woman has been excused and i get to the back and the verdict is guilty. And theres something called polling of the juror. You ask each juror, remember, is this your verdict . And they get to that juror. And she says, yes. And im thinking, what could be more ineffective assistance of counsel than that . Its a sixth amendment violation. About as clear as it comes. That he did not get a fair and impartial jury. That alone should have given him a new trial, except that theres more. And what we learn later after hes convicted on this shell casing and the ballistics expert says, i wish we could have done a firing pin test that have been great, that they did a firing pin test. And guess what it show, it wasnt his weapon. He didnt shoot these agents and they knew it. This this ballistics test was done before the trial. They knew it and so on. Appeal. How do i know people ask me, well, how do you know that . That leonards not guilty . They go, dont ask me. You can ask the prosecutor, because they will tell hes not guilty. The the assistant u. S. Attorney who tried the case on appeal. And again, these are from transcripts. Im reading the transcript the assistant u. S. Attorney tells the court of appeals our evidence was sketchy even with the id so theres a theres an appeal now that the ballistics test has come out theres a theres a appeal. And what doing now is theyve changed their theory that hes the principal because now theyve been caught and. We know hes not the principal shooter and we know that they knew he wasnt the principal shooter, that the theory becomes, well, now this is aiding and abetting. Thats our theory. He helped his codefendants shoot the agents. Well, thats interesting, because code defendants were acquitted based on selfdefense. So who did he do . The who did he aid and abet . So first he says our evidence that Leonard Peltiers guilty of shooting anyone was sketchy. And he says it twice. And the judge asked him, well, if its aiding and who did he aid and abet . And the assistant u. S. Attorney says, i dont know, maybe himself, which. Okay, you do not have to have gone to law school to know that that is impossible. You cannot aid and abet yourself. But the court lets it go and ive heard in other interviews, he says the same thing. I dont know, maybe himself. And hes also said, the prosecutors also said, we know who shot the agents. And he said, we do know that there were only three people there. Robert butler peltier well, if thats true and, aiding and abetting is your theory, because we know it wasnt leonard who shot them. Then it has to be rabideau or youre telling us theyre the only three people there and they were acquitted based on selfdefense selfdefense. So where was the crime that he and abetted he guilty . They say. And then if youre still unclear as to what the what the prosecution thinks of this case and in a later that same assistant u. S. Attorney says we did not prove that Leonard Peltier shot anybody and we knew we didnt prove it. So what are we doing here 47 years later . Why are we here talking about whether or not clemency ought to be granted to Leonard Peltier . He you know, this is ramsey said this and, you know, thats one of the things were looking if ramsey clark couldnt get this done, some of the greatest lawyers that bill counselor couldnt get it done. I dont know how were going to do this. You know, ramsey clark, so this is not this is not about whether he ought to be granted clemency. He never should have been in in the first place. Right. You did not prove hes guilty. Ask the ask the assistant u. S. Attorney who prosecuted the case. We didnt prove it. And we knew we didnt prove it. Maybe he aided and himself. Maybe he aided abetted the guys who were acquitted based on selfdefense. Now, in leonards case, because their theory was he was the principal shooter. The judge didnt let that his codefendants had been acquitted based on selfdefense. It was part of the evidence that was kept out. Well, if your theory is aiding and abetting and youre and your evidence shows there were only three people there and two of them have been and your evidence shows a there were only three people there and two have been acquitted, how do you convict . It cannot be done, yet here we are. Now, i am not the first. I hope i am the last to represent hunter in a clemency petition. So what is different except for the buyers drawer, i dont add anything else to the story. Everyone has known this, the number of people i run into that say i grew up with this story. If youre from that area of the country, or your native american, these are not new stories to you. So why do i think leonard is going to be granting clemency . The thing that has changed is the audience, right . This is a president who has who listens to native american voices. There is an audience of constituents of the rest of the country who dont live in the country or grown up in a native American Culture who now are starting to understand what happened, now starting to understand what happened in june 1975 requires context. It is everything that happened before and everything that happened after that makes this such a compelling story. The average citizen now is starting to understand the broken treaties and starting to understand the injustice that has been done by the United States government to the native American Communities. As we learn about the horrors of boarding schools, native americans know about this but i didnt know it. And i had heard this story, kill the indian, save the man but i thought this was something from the 1800s. I didnt realize these schools were going to the 1950s, 60s. The last one is still in existence in the 1980s. 96. Okay. 1996 right . So the American Public was hearing this, they see the body counts, its like vietnam again. We used to watch the news and there are body cams. Now we hear the same things about boarding schools. Whats the body count at this one and we are horrified. For the first time, the average american is starting to hear the story and waking up to that tragedy. We are starting to understand what dorothy was talking about about the importance of water and water rights and why you dont want to run a pipeline through these native lands. The standing locks of the world that would have nothing to do with that, opens up the door to the story. That is why i think this constituency that hasnt existed before, but is important to the president is one that can move the needle here and help free leonard. The story of leonard is not just about leonard. When i opened up that first thought i thought this was a story about a guy who had been wrongfully convicted and it was, but then the onion started peeling back and what happened was easy for me to understand, but why it happened was this 3 and a half year, four year journey that i had been on and everybody else is starting to learn that story and that is why i think that now, there is an audience to hear this and now theres a constituency that knows the story and can say to the president of the United States it is time to end this not just for leonard but for the native American Communities, not just for the native American Communities but for ourselves and for the fbi. They need for this to end. They cant move beyond the the hoover weight that is around their neck until this is over. We cant really understand the healing that has to take place if we dont work on this wound that has to be healed and that is how we are going to be able to move and start healing the larger ones. Unless you can stop the bleeding you will never be able to heal those wounds and unless we have real honest conversations about all of this we will never be able to hear those words, we will never be able to have the kind of relationship with each other and individuals in this country need to have, unless we can heal these wounds. So that is why leonards case is important. We want leonard to be able to go home to chippewa, they are ready for him, they are expecting him, but we also need to get this done so that we can heal as a nation. And i cant overstate the importance of sending leonard home to doing that, at least starting that journey for all of us. So this keeps me up at night, it gets me worked up. I am the new guy to it. How i feel if i lived with this story for 59 years instead of four . This needs to end. I feel that it will. So thank you for listening to me. [applause] back to you. Im listening to all of that, quote leonard gave recently that is part of a book called behind bars, not all, it is 122, a big report that tells the story that i believe Ethel Pearson started when she which means he who draws the people to him. That was fascinating because i met so many people from all over the world, uniquely different and this was in their hearts. It drew them to the story, to this case and it became their story. The quote that he says yes, my life was stolen from me but not wasted because it held my people and that is a brave, beautiful thing to say. I want to close on that and thank dorothy for the door she opened. Say i want to serve, thank you for being here and representing us because i think this is the first time weve come across someone who was honest and willing to take the case to the limit. I have been working on leonard for quite a few years and i have seen a lot of people come and go and for some of them as far back as when this was another one. I told them you ever stop to think you are worth more to these people inside than on the outside . It seems it is a vending machine where people make money off of his name by whatever they can use to slap his name on. Leonard doesnt get the money. He can only have 300 in this commissary in a month and a lot of people benefited from jumping on the bandwagon and weve tried to prevent some of that from happening. It is impossible because there are a lot of people who are drawn to him, for whatever reason they are drawn to him, they come to him and end up using him and it gets very discouraging. He tries to hold on, people say they want to help them and he takes them at their word and allows them in and then he gets taken advantage of and i feel bad about it and i talk to him, a couple days ago, feeling really bad with his health. His back was bad. I was teasing him because he was crying and says i never believed that your back could hurt you so much. I was telling you about that, i said my back was hurting, you know what it feels like. He said no medical that he could get at that point, nowhere to go to get a release and i felt bad. I just hope that this is the time. Im hoping everybody that hears this case does it for his benefit and to try to help and get out and not just as a way to use and abuse him because hes had that for 37 years. Im hoping we can put our minds together to be of one mind and do the right thing, im hoping everybody on the outside is of the same mind. We all know one of the reasons he is in there is if he gets out, he has a voice too, has to talk about resources that are being stolen on reservations there being ripped off, children that are being abused, and whatever and i think at the boarding school, all of that, we try to bring it out and we have tried to go to the public to educate people about what they are thinking, not what the government wants for us but what we want for our own people and we need to start listening to some of that. It is time, tough time, he never should have been in there. I hope he gets to come out and enjoy little bit of his life yet. This would be a perfect time to open it up for questions for the audience. If folks want to pose some questions, the microphone is going around. There is an additional one. [inaudible conversations] do we have a microphone the audience can use . If you guys dont mind. Good evening. Can you hear me okay . Is it working . There we go. Hi. My name is brooke shiflett. Sorry about the voice. I thought it might be nice to hear a voice from the past. Forgive my brain fog. The elder up there. I have a water i found around christmas time threatened by dennis, dennis banks, i thought it would be interesting and you might want to hear it. Its not long but it includes leonard. Anyway, ive got a certification and everything, this is a copy, before it was typed, where he certified it and mailed it to president obama back in may. Lets see. May 31, 2016. He mailed the original but this is his copy, sign and everything. He says dear president barack obama. I write this letter from selma, alabama. A very Historic Town with two significant meetings. The cradle of confederacy and the birthplace of civil rights. Yesterday our group of 40 plus people, the longest walk 5 calling for the end of drug abuse and Domestic Violence walked over the edmund bridge. As we walked across that bridge to montgomery to voice demands for our rights, people had walked across the bridge, by state troopers, sheriffs and deputies with dogs, they were viciously attacked by the dogs and beaten by deputies using nightsticks and tear gas. Two weeks later, doctor Martin Luther king senior successfully led 300 walkers across that bridge protected by the United States army and the Alabama National guard in montgomery, alabama. On august 5th, 1965, president johnson signed the Voting Rights act into law. On february 27th, 1973, another action not noticed by many took place at wounded knee,. When the American Indian movement, acting with the Oglala Sioux Civil Rights Organization and the oglala chiefs, reasserted their right to control their destiny on their nations territory, january 1, 1974, two men, russell meeds and myself, leaders of aim, defenders of the wounded knee seeds were arrested and tried. After 9. 5 months, federal judge fred nichols, citing government misconduct dismissed all charges against us. I, this is where his notes change, i never understood why the federal government feared us. We werent lawyers. We werent doctors, we werent architects, we were just indian guides who wanted more for the next generation. We were the dog soldiers. We had nothing to offer but our liberty and ourselves and so we offered both freely, hoping the next generation would be doctors and lawyers and architects. Leonard was one of the dog soldiers. I write, inspired by the courageous acts of president johnson and federal judge fred nichols. The history of leonards case is dripping with the smell of politics. Today, i humbly ask you to release Leonard Peltier from federal custody. He has been held for over 40 years and his health is now failing him. Should you fail to release him, you fail all of us, as i am positive he will die in prison. Mister president , please do not fail us again. National field director dennis banks. American indian association. I thought that might thank you for reading that. It also reminds me that judge nichol dismissed those charges because of the governments misconduct. It was the same type of misconduct that happened in leonards case and also reminds me that judge cheney who heard leonards appeal came out before his death and called for clemency. Anyone who was at the rally yesterday and if not you may have heard about this, James Reynolds am a former United States attorney who helped prosecute leonard and was there for the appeals in the heaviest petition also came out in strong support of clemency for leonard. The 10th circuit talking about leonards case in one of the opinions said theres no question that witnesses were intimidated and exculpatory evidence was hidden. Leonards case is so full of misconduct it is layered with reasons to grant clemency even if you are not going to set the conviction aside. All of that, denniss letter hits on all of that. You didnt depend on me to mail things on time so he did himself. I found the mailing receipt with it. I wanted to remind everybody here, last week, the second through the ninth, people remember that, the 50 Year Anniversary of the occupation of the eia. It was the first televised indian battle of the indian war we have been in, that is why nixons policy on termination changed so quickly. It was the first time nonindians saw guns pointed at us. It was the first televised battle of this war. 50 years ago last week. Thank you. We now all know Leonard Peltier is definitely innocent, 47 years is more than enough. My first telephone call to him from prison i told him, so sorry your life was stolen, first in boarding schools and then in 47 years in prison. I was so surprised with his answer, and it just shows his humanity. He said not wasted because my people benefited from it. A lot of attention was drawn towards my people and many changes were made. Now we are all here and we want to know, especially what can we do to add to our lives, all our lives this additional value of helping getting Leonard Peltier home. Thank you for that and that is leonard. The most important thing you can do is not leave here and say what a tragedy and not think about it again. You cant watch this program and then change the channel or go to Something Else, you have to take action. The president needs to know that you care about not just leonard but about these issues. Are members of congress, representatives and senators need to know that you care about this. They have the ability to influence the president. If you walk away and turn the channel, saying thats a shame, you havent done anything and nothing has changed and nothing will change. That is one of the things that is so important. I noticed in the election, rehashing the midterms, the largest voting bloc was this 18 to 29yearold demographic. That group, what does this have to do with me, this is 1975, decades before i was born, the answer is it has everything to do with you. It has everything to do with you because we cant free leonard if nothing can change, than it is destined to repeat itself. And it can happen to you. And it can happen to your friends. It is a government that is unchecked, and that is the worst, so you have to make your voice heard. This is as important an issue as water rights. Important an issue as Climate Change because if the government can do this without being called to task for it, then what have you got . It is back to dorothys statement, if you are just going to go this doesnt matter to me, nothing will change. If you are afraid to make that statement then nothing will change. Dorothy stepped up and said this isnt about me. It is about the next generation and the next generation and the next. Its got to end. Enough is enough. Let the president know what you think about it. That your members of Congress Know what you think about it. You got to let them know. You can email, you can call, you can write letters. I text every day but i am sure President Biden is not checking his phone for Text Messages but somebody is checking so every day i send my text response back to the white house that says free Leonard Peltier. Leonard peltier matters, people care when they get that text and you can go onto the website and you can say the same thing and call and let him know. Whatever you do, dont remain silent. Silence is the worst thing that can happen. Thank you to the speakers for sharing your stories, some of the things i heard tonight i heard for the first time but also am reminded in 1975, or just prior to the shoot out at oglala, the Church Committee was investigating the cia, nsa, fbi and the us military and its role in surveilling and suppressing social movements in the United States, known as the Church Committee and for whatever reason they didnt investigate the us military or the fbis role in suppressing and surveilling the American Indian movement. What we know now with the foia documents through freedom of information act, two months prior to the shoot out at oglala, there was an internal memorandum issued by the fbi that said something to the effect of the paramilitary operation special agents in Indian Country, prior to wounded knee in 1973 there were only two fbi agent in the state of south dakota assigned to police, Indian Country and the entire state. During wounded knee we know there were 300 deployed and after wounded knee there were 30 decade dedicated fbi field agents and we saw an increase in crime, murderers as judge sharp pointed out that went unsolved and thats the primary function of the fbi as i understand it in Indian Country, historically and today, to investigate but we now know through this internal memorandum that it was also serving the paramilitary function. Judge sharp, you mentioned that this is something we can attribute to the hoover era but we also know the fbi was deploying similar tactics but this time using corporate counterinsurgency, private Security Intelligence and informers to do the very things that they were doing against the American Indian movement during that time period and they were investigating the children of members who had been investigated by the fbi using informants who were the children of the bureau of Indian Affairs officers who are part of that federal policing and surveillance force. I would like to ask beyond clemency for Leonard Peltier which everyone in this room might agree with perhaps, the fbi agents who are here. By now may be they do. Beyond that, does there need to be a full accounting beyond just Leonard Peltiers case for the role of fbi and its suppression, surveillance of Indigenous Social movements. The short answer is yes. I dont know, except for historical reasons, if you take an investigation back to the early 1970s. For historical reasons it would be interesting. Youve got to do it now. You talked about at standing rock, absolutely, that needs to be investigated, the Church Committee was on the verge of opening this thing wide up and the Civil Rights Commission had looked into this, but than the shooting occurs and it is now or hot political drop it and they drop it and it hasnt been picked up again but absolutely. The governments role in continuing to run counterintelligence and this kind of activity on anyone they consider to be subversive has got to be investigated. It is one of those things, but people need to know this is happening. And if they do and i think we saw some of that in the midterms, enough is enough not just for Leonard Peltier but for all of this. It is so reminiscent of what you described at standing rock, so reminiscent of what happened in the 1970s and continues to happen so it has got to be investigated. How far back does it go . I dont know. Theres always so much time and only so many investigations you can start and do you want this to go on for years but absolutely. What is happening today and lets expand it backwards. I think you are absolutely right and youve got an audience again in this country thats willing to entertain that idea. Now we know that it goes on. Right . I was a kid in memphis. We had different issues but it is a different world out there, but now i know what is happening elsewhere in the country and that needs to be looked into and it has got to be stopped. Otherwise what kind of a state are we running here . Exactly. Yes, sir . I was going to say technically we have the event slaughtered until 6 30 but we have the room until 7 00 and seems a bunch of folks want to ask questions. I know we have a couple folks here that have already asked me. If you want to continue the q and a session until 7 00, more than happy to do so. But i think this gentleman in the back and this gentleman here, that woman in the back and then this gentleman here. That one right there. If that is perfectly fine, you guys have been thats great. If you can remember that order that will be a most impressive thing. I will stay here as long as anyone wants to talk about this. It drives me crazy, the disappointing part is that we are scratching the surface of the story, there are so many pieces to this that we dont even have time to talk about. I have a legal question for the judge. When leonard was extradited from canada, the canadian government would not extradite him unless the Us Government took the Death Penalty off the table. So now leonard has been in prison all these years. He is approaching 80, 78. Could you explain, the old prisoner rule is, why leonard keeps falling through the cracks . He was not given the Death Penalty, looks like he will die in prison. You gotta defect oh death sentence absolutely. Prior to 1987, federal prisoners were eligible for parole. Hes eligible for parole but part of this, if you look at the structure of the department of justice and the criminal side, on the criminal side is us attorney, fbi, bureau of prisons, Attorneys Office, they report through the same chain of command up to the Deputy Attorney general and so it gets really difficult particularly where there is misinformation about what this case is about to get him through a parole system and the parole system that because it only would apply to 1500 of the older prisoners it doesnt even have a full complement of commissioners on the parole commission. There should be five. So it is a way of getting around your obligations. We are not going to execute him but we are certainly going to let him die in prison and that is what is happening. Hes eligible for parole again in 2,024. Its getting to the point does he even make it their . Given what happened before, because as we learned, in the investigation by the working group on arbitrary detention the United Nations, there was a parole hearing officer the recommended parole for leonard back in 2009 and this is how averse they are to granting parole. This gentleman recommends parole and his draft report, memo, is pooled, and a new hearing officer is put in place who says i am changing the recommendation. In the process of doing that as reported by the working group, he says leonard may not have done it but someone in his tribe did. Okay. He didnt do it but some blonde guy did. Paroled or not, can you imagine if that was set of any other ethnicity, he didnt do it but some black guy did, what are you talking about . What mentality, it is pervasive and allowed. I dont have a lot of confidence that he will survive that long and even if he did he would get a fair parole hearing when everyone has known for decades as the prosecutor said, we dont know who killed these agents. Our evidence was sketchy. We didnt prove it and we knew we didnt prove it. If that doesnt get you paroled i dont know what will because it is politics. This is politics. It is what it is. I wish i had a more satisfactory answer for you. I am from new mexico. Thank you for the panelists, for the stories they have told. My comments to what judge sharp said, that he believes in optimism, that things have changed and things can change and yet we know what the history of america has reviewed. But it is really what keeps leonard in prison. It is racism, politics, and it is a political prisoner. The persuasion of the fbi, really, for judge sharp, this attitude, this power in a certain political sector, how do you overcome that in the release of Leonard Peltier . What can we do . The fbi has influence. That influence is weighed against the influence of other constituents and it is a different world. It used to be that what you had was a native American Community that was advocating for the release of leonard and a few folks outside of that community that educated themselves. It was not a strong or influential enough group. That has changed. You can look around and see, it wont be enough for the native American Community, its not perfect but look where it is today as opposed to where it was ten years ago or 20 years ago. This is a community that gets listened to because it has political influence like it never had before. Is that enough . I think it is but even if it is not you can add to it, other groups in this country that have awoken to what is happening and join that call. I think this group of constituents has as much if not more influence with the fbi than the president has. Im optimistic we can do this. I think this president cares and understands that this is not what one agency inside the government thinks particularly aware we know that narrative that has been put out there over the last decade isnt true, and it falls apart when they look at it. I dont know how they argue that with a straight face anymore. They do but i dont know how they do that. The evidence, when in fact your own prosecutors say we dont have evidence of that. But i think all of that together has changed the landscape. I wanted to mention the National Congress of the American Indian, 560 leadership unanimously voted to free Leonard Peltier and vote for his freedom. When that voice is united to gather, so much stronger, and that is a new day, a new chance and i wanted to mention that. I pray and we pray you are right. Let me add to this. Those prayers are important. It is part of that. It changes hearts and minds, is prayer and i think it makes a difference and you cant stop doing that. That is so important to this process. Hi, everybody. Im from the Cheyenne River sioux tribe and im a survivor of the 1975 firefighter. My brother was there, he was 11 years old. I was 14. I wanted to let you know that whenever they attacked our camp, they didnt care if we were children or if there were women or grandparents there. They shot at everybody. People today realize this has happened, no more covering up for the fbi or whatever. Im glad people believe our story. There is a point where they thought we were just making it up. He saved our lives, they should be honored for that for a long time because a lot of people survived because they were not scared to stand against our operas and this genocide has continued, grandparents have been killed, jailed, murdered, sitting bull, crazy horse went to prison for this just for being a lakota or whatever tribe they are from. So we are still here and we continue to fight for leonard and we appreciate all your support and it is really thankful that we have judge sharp, they have come up and helps with our fight. Thank you. [applause] my name is isabel. Im director of the American Indian movement, International Grand governing council. To walk here for minneapolis, minnesota for leonard with a prayer and thinking about sister jean here and what she just said and also remembering joel stuntz who put his life on the line and gave the ultimate sacrifice so i want to come back to your comments earlier about what happened prior to that day and what was the temperature of that part of the country. Thinking back then, tying that to the practices of the fbi and the secret service and cia and such and prior to that, prior to wounded knee, looking at extraction industry. There was exploratory, and what was happening during that time period you have to think about what nick talked about, the diversion and implant and infiltration and chss embedded in the American Indian movement, who deliberately came in to create diversion and distraction and that has happened. This is in the back then issue but if you think about that day, the classic distraction, diversion tactic that they did, sending those plainclothes guys in there, that is not just a single incident for the American Indian movement. It is not a historical event either although in 1980 or 79 i came to dc to the citizens review on the Citizens Review Commission on the fbi and i listened as a young woman to not only our aim leaders talking about the implants, tactics against our people but also i listened to the black panthers and the aarp, the new republic of georgia and nation of islam and the others talking the same things that were happening in their social Justice Movements within their movements and so talking about i support you and work anyway we can to look at the historical projects that have been talked about here but also just encouraging to think about that, another way to look at this, that was a diversion tactic and the implants, if you were there today at the white house line, the guy with the eagle hat showed up and did a complete distraction disrupting our prayer gathering. Its not over. When we announced we were going to walk across the country for Leonard Peltier, immediately, immediately we had infiltrators that came to minneapolis. We had i saw the helicopter patrol. It is not historical. It continues. So we do, we need people that have the power to stand up and we need to know what is going on, why is that elder still in prison. Thank you. [applause] another piece to that. The court said the government needs to take responsibility for their role in what happened that day. Thank you for what you did tonight and say tonight. Sharing the story, judge sharp or changing the story, free leonard. For those asking what we can do, most people here have been doing and continue and it is great but for those who want to know what do we do . You are all good with social media, you younger people. Theres a lot of tweeting going on but you can tell your friends. Come together. I want you to see a movie and watch the video incident in oglala. The story of a trial and the oppression of native people, history, it is incredible. The biography of leonard, in the spirit of crazy horse, to tell others and show others. Georgetown it is important that it is on cspan and people to tell, the fbi right now is intervening constantly. People said recently they are being kind of quiet and giving up, they are not, they are intervening where people want to send a letter to the editor. They call a newspaper. Theres a wellknown journalist for Huffington Post, she wrote a letter to the federal parole board asking what is happening with leonards case. The fbi found out and they intervened and wrote a letter and said hes guilty, and i wonder if there should be more Public Campaign of political exposure, what they are doing right now. And and there needs to be an investigation of those tactics. Jennifer bender refor the Huffington Post after the power all, the Attorneys Office and the fbi responded. The question to them, what is the status of his Clemency Division . The fbi responded and said here is why he is guilty in his petition should be denied. If you want to know what the status of it is you need to talk to an attorney. That was my question to begin with. How are you responding to this . The response was one that was filled with misinformation. I dont say that lightly. It is a story that the Attorneys Office abandoned 35 years ago. Someone forgot to tell the fbi thats not the version of the story the government tells anymore. The doj criminal, they are all on that side of the reporting. The bigger story is the one that was talked about earlier. What is the federal government doing to infiltrate and run counterintelligence against our own people . We are not talking domestic terrorists, weve got to do that. Im talking about people who just have an opinion you disagree with that fits into that j edgar hoover, these folks need to be watched. Martin luther kings of the world, the student nonviolent movements of the world. They need to be watched. They are unamerican. The American Indian movement of the world, black panthers, infiltrated not because they are terrorists, but because they are the centers. A long list of things that need to be looked into. Lets start with clemency for Leonard Peltier. [applause] one more quick comment and right before we close we end with a little song. We thank our speakers once again before we break. Thank you for taking the time to do this, especially being on the spotlight. We appreciate it. Thank you so much for everyone that showed up to this event, the questions we received along the way and everyone being so engaged with this and it is a pleasure. One more comment, a song, and thanks again. Thank you so much but a very quick comment. I wanted to tell you folks who dont know about it, there is an amazing podcast called leonard political prisoner, the pod casters couldnt come for this event tonight or to dc. So leonard political prisoner. If you listen to podcasts a lot of the people you heard tonight and around the room will beyond that podcast so please listen and there is action through the podcast as well. Once again. The reporting that we send. Those who speak our language. This is part of that. These are all things on that facility. Free Leonard Peltier. Recently on the presidency, former first lady lou henry hoovers life including her training as a geologist and her role in herbert hoovers world war i relief efforts. The hoovers moved into the white house in 1929. Part of what she did was she would support bird programs. This is part of the pictograph that was in the washington evening star, and i know pictures are not clear to you but this is scouts working in the garden in world war ii, we call it the victory gardens, these are the gardens for raising food to help with, prevent Food Shortages and fulfill the slogan of the time, food will win the war. I want to point out one thing to you. Notice who gets top billing