Transcripts For CSPAN2 Lectures 20240704

Unfiltered, unbiased, word for word. From the nations capitol to wherever you are this is what democracy looks like. Cspan powered by cable. Our topic today were going to start with discussion of native americans won two different discussions we arere having. Want to make clear that is going to be a couple weeks but are going to use that as a way to link our focus is kind of around them. We are thinking more legal policy and issues. We think about this in the broad 19th century way. I will keep things to deal with. The second halfon of our semestr one of the questions we are picking up on is what is it mean to be an american . Who could claim to be an american to take us through the end of our semester as we deal for 19th century. And her upcoming weeks well talk about immigrants. Were going to talkbo about progressive era this is a good start point to think about who is claiming american status and what does that mean . We are going to build from some of the ideas with manifest destiny for the discussion of Political Violence and build into these otherer things. A couple key concepts we need to deal first of all settler colonialism. Have you heard that phrase before . I see a couple yeses and a couple of nose and heads and bobbing every which way. Its a general definition here. We are talking about colonialism that seeks to replace the original population. Colonialismig seeks to replace e original population with new settlers hence settler colonialism. This is done in a couple of different ways. One way is through depopulation in an effort to remove physically take them to another place remove or to exterminate. W depopulation for the secular this functions is through assimilation. Getting the previous and populan to transition into membership in the new population. Recognition of the population as a unit within this new organization. We are not going to see that nearly as much. We are going to see the first two more in our discussion today. Second big thing we need to think about is the frontier. How does it function were going to Frederick Jackson turner. As a historic the university of wisconsin delivered about the frontier. Census bureau 1890 said theres no longer a frontier. One of things turner wanted to talk about was what the frontier had meant in American History. We argued america does not exist without a frontier. Its directly tied to the notions of a frontier but what is a frontier is a fantastic question. An interns construction of this basically the frontier in American History is functioned as a colony. The semi overseas colonies function for european powers this is how they function for the United States. It is a place for Raw Materials to be produced. Dedicated market to finish goods. But more importantly was a safety belt. People disgruntled at home will move to the colonies. In the same way people are disgruntled on the east coast would move to the front tier read that process reproduced what it meant to be america. You have a. Contiguous that lead ledup close to it. What makese the american frontir different than these other colonies as there is a constant integration of the front tier into the mother country itself. That is an important distinction. They dont see the frontier purely positive lysis it as an important space for the re creation of what it means to be american. Want to quote a piece from him that says the democracy born of free land by this he means the front tears of space bar no one has claimed this land. Which is not true but that is the conception. Democracy born a free land strong and selfishness and individualism, and tyrant of administrative experience and education on pressing individual liberty beyond its proper balance has dangers as well as its benefits. So from turners perspective the front tier is an important location and is necessary for defining the american character. Its also a place that is generated a very unique vision of what it means to be american. One that is very much tied to the brutal and violent realities. So that is important for us in terms of thinking about native e americans and that connection. Because again in turners of the frontier its free land its open space space conceptualizing without people already there. The ideas in the 19th century about social development. For that were going to turn to Lewis H Morgan who wrote a book in 1877 called ancient society that title is a 19th century books of the title forever long we just called ancient society. And it basically, what he is talking about through studying kinship relationships and such is that all societies move through a uniform an identifiable path into civilization from savagery, to barbarism, to civilization. In his savagery he identifies as that hunter gatherer of lowest rudimentary level of technology. Little in terms of hierarchical search organizations. On his mind the most primitive. We moving to barbarism to bronze age technology, the use of smelting technology to create first about iron tools and then into bronze and more intricate social organizations. More sedentary. His vision of how this works is based on technology but also an sedentary life or hunter gatherers to more permanent societies. Ultimately what he defines as civilization breaks up into ancient, medieval, and modern. Until we understand the western world. And of course, america to the pinnacle its the topics most modern of all places its the most civilized. Okay, great. So if you take this a notion he talks about mono genesis. Are you familiar with this term mono genesis . That all people come from one singular creation. Sir, do you have a question . [inaudible] collected morgan view it like the early colonists who were technically british colonists as savages . No, no, no. They are still part of civilized world. Again morgans vision is anglo saxon america. Anglo saxon vision. The british, even the french you would throw in kind of a western european conceptions are the height of civilization per click the set includes all the western world . Yes. Brandon . [inaudible] civilize into American Society . Lexi would have put them somewhere in that space between barbarism and civilized. They are not there yet. That is my understanding but i have not Read Everything that morgan wrote so i do not know one 100 . He fits most native americans in a barbarism or savagery into barbers and thats how he sees native americans but i dont know if he would necessary classified i think youd say all right may not necessarily be civilized. Good questions you these are fantastic questions. It morgan as i was see not the only person out there and his ideas are not the only ideas. There are representative of a notion, a set of ideas this idea that native americans are not necessarily civilized or they are on the edge of civilization. That is one of the things that could be done is to help progress them into the civilized era, into the modern world. The civilizing mission. We actually talked a lot about as we do for the rest of the semester this notion of what later individuals would call the white mans burden weho will tak about that for those type of meideas theres the idea native americans are in impediment to progress. Because they are stuck in barbarism. And so i if they are stuck in a barbarism there is no way to bring them into the modern world what you do then . These conception of who was modern, who is not whether or not progress can happen. You tie that to the idea of the front tier and notion of settler colonialism for it you get the intellectual framework for understanding what is going to happen throughout the 19th century. Were not going to talk about the cwars, well talk about a coupe weeks everything short of war here we are going to talk about in terms of settler colonialism and connections, does not make sense it questions before we move on . Fantastic. It all right trail of tears. All of you have heard that before i assume, yes . Okay how many have heard about the gold georgia gold rush . Okay so couple of you have. In 1828 in northern georgia the appalachian portions of georgia they find gold. Hence the gold rush. But people press you into this area, increasing population in 18308 seconds in vain is going to be found this is going to be in the land claimed by the cherokee. Its not going to stop the miners from going into that territory. And the cherokee are like please, please dont. Please get out. Its the great intrusion. What aer wonderfully kind of victorian, intrusion, this is an invasion of minors into cherokee lands. And because of that there is a desire to take those lands out of the hands of the cherokee. The gold rush does not lead to the indian act i want to make that clear. I want to make it clear that this did not create that but it made it easier for people to support the indian removal act theres gold in them there hills . Okay. They had already been a push to remove some of this land is what we refer to as the five civilized tribes, the cherokee, the muscogee creek, the seminole, the choctaw and the chickasaw. Thats oh five, right . Well okay attic is bad for me. Theres already the movement going there in 1830 Congress Passes the indian removal act which empowers the federal government to send out negotiators. You send up these negotiators to create treaties to Exchange Lands in the southeast for lance landsand what is designated indn territory. The portion of the Louisiana Purchase territory west of arkansas. The very first of these treaty is the treaty of Dancing Rabbit Creek with the choctaw in 1831. So they signed this agreement to move from basically georgia to indian territory. They did it in three waves between 1831 and ultimately 801833. Not all of the choctaw we are talking0 about 15000 out of a population just shy of 20000. So the vast majority. The thing is, the first wave hits a blizzard. The second wave is going to be decimated by cholera. All three waves are going to face significant supply shortages and general incompetence on the part of the federal individuals who are leading this process. S so that all said indent two 4000 people are going to die in the process of moving. This choctaw removal is the first time people use the phrase trail of tears. That is the start point. There is an effort to get a treaty with the seminole in 1832. The gauche identity seminole this seminar and like were not sure how we feel about this land in oklahoma. Can we sense a people check it out . Until they do. They go to oklahoma and come back. There is this report that supposedly these seminole leaders signed aslant is terrific and wonderful and amazing except none of them actually signed it. Until the seminole sable than we are not with the u. S. Government says yes you are. You haveea too. Its going to lead to the second seminole war in83 1835. But again thats at. Couple wees from now it will talk about that. Some people are going to fighta back against removal. What iss interesting that cherokee response to this whole process is perhaps they had at some level assimilated parts of white culture. Theyak have taken bits and piecs city for going to make us do this, lets do this. Youre like noaa. Clugston they also have white supporters . That benefited them . Llalexa cherokee had a number of people on their side in this process. The early 1800s0s georgia seedea large portion of the western land claims. Thats an alabama and mississippi. And in that process georgia gets up but that cherokee do not give up their land claim in 1825 they basically create a newat capitol in 1827 ready constitution. Ofil the whole point is native americans into a simile into white culture elected cherokee have done exactly what they said do and it does not seem to matter seems to be a big deal for a pass on 1828 think any member of the Cherokee Nation that signs some sort of removal agreement or land claim agreement without the approval of the council has committed treason against the Cherokee Nation. They have got this figured out. Vaso when the indian removal act comes along they are set and ready to go. The problem is georgia has looked to the u. S. Government saying hey, you promised us, when you sent you this land would help us remove portions of native americans living in our territory and you are not doing that. He Georgia State Legislature Just passed a series of laws giving them the power to basically do whatever they wanted. Cherokee sued in 1831 i go to the u. S. Supreme court at which point the Supreme Court says we are not going to hear your case. Which i have always loved i left the u. S. Supreme court saying no, thanks me understand this is a huge concern has major ramifications but we are going to have tea that day. The next year, 1832 another suit ermakes his way to the Supreme Court this is going to hear thee case versus the state of georgia by the Supreme Court sides with the jerky in this. At least at some level the ruling here is at the state of georgia does not have the right to pass these laws. That affect the cherokee because the constitution is quite clear when it comes to the phrase indian affairsor only federal government has that authority. So attempts to control the cherokee violate the constitution. Now president jacksons response to this is basically cool, dont care. The famous thing with the ideas had marshals made ath decision o what youre going to ask brandon . Wasnt that his response to it . Or seems to be no evidence that shows him actually saying this. O now, could he have said it out loud andye no one wrote it down . Yes, entirely possible we do not have a documented evidence as far as i can find that says he said that specifically. But the sentiment is there. The sentiment of basically i dont care. On some level its not some shes going to enforce the ruling he is not going to side with a cherokee. The Supreme Court is cited with the cherokee you cannot remove us in this way. But there is still the indian removal act that jackson supported so doesnt have a problem. It gets kind of interesting in 1832 jackson basically declared war on southth carolina. It is a busy year for him. But ultimately ends up happening is in 1830 5a treaty is signed with a faction of the cherokee the whole thing as the decision from the Supreme Court seems like they have one. But it doesnt look like the federal government is going to care. Our rift begins to develop amongst leadership of the cherokee. El some say it iss inevitable they are going to force us to leave so lets get the best terms we canth now. Another group sink we are not leaving under any circumstance. What happens to the group that is ultimately in favor of leaving on the best terms they can get signed a treaty in 1835. That would technically be an act of treasonst under the cherokee constitution. Under their law the u. S. Government says no, you signed this treaty, off you go. About three different waves they are forced to. Some voluntarily move. There are some that are literally drug kicking and screaming. Its about 16000 herself. Two 4000 are going to die along the way you would think after thousands of people have died in the process of forced removal the federal government would say lets not do that again. You would be wrong because in 1864 theyre going to do it again. In 1864 they went to do it again. Some of this has to do with the civil war itself. In 1861 large chunks of the u. S. Army were drunk off the great plains and sent back east to fight. Which means which are going to end up having is mostly territorial militia. Thats going to be a bit of an issue. Even with the u. S. Army there thats not a guarantee that trees will be upheld and things like that. Butth now because of the civil r there are some native american tribes and nations that will side with the confederacy. Canot necessary they agree with the confederacy but the confederacy has promised them land, a recognition of land, did you have a question . Yes. Does tensions when they agreed with the confederates were the tensions between tribal members at that time too . It is internal tribal conflict whether or not to side. There is always tension that we are going to see. The cherokee at one point before they were forced into indian territory there are some that owned slaves themselves they had adopted the nation of african slavery. Some of them would have consorted the very last confederate general to surrender is going to be a cherokee general. Stan will edi believe his name was, that sounds right in my head. This going to be some that will fight for the confederacy because they believe on the ideas of the confederacy some are going to support the confederacy because the devil that promised me the best is the devil i go with. Because of this t internal tensions it is hard to know who is with who. And then of course you got the u. S. Army not overly concerned about identifying clearly who is with who. It is all kind of a muddled problem to begin with. I did not claim the new mexico territory supporting the confederacy. In some groups do. Many dont. What happens in the late 1863 there is this fear the navajo on the border between arizona and new mexico territory they are supportive of the confederacy bread there is no evidence for this but in january of 1864 the u. S. Army since kit carson the famous mountain man out with a unit to basically bring the navajo in. To bringew them from the arizona new mexico border. Bring them to fort sumner in the eastern part of new mexico, several hundred miles. And so between eight and 9000 navajo are going to be forced at gunpoint to march, has anyone actually been to mexico . Move into the western part of new mexico, youve been w there . Youre going through the to thes that are fairly dry. Kind of desert like. Eighteen days, several hundred miles, i want you to imagine that march. I dont want to march anywhere im going to tell you that right now. Like i dont want to do this. They could actually get to to the area. They put into camps, for all intents and purposes internment camps. Overcrowded and undersupplied theyre going to stay there for about fourye years. Forced to live in these conditionsns are going to die on the march. Several hundred more are going toin die in eastern new mexico. Eventually in 1868s, u. S. Governments going to sign a treaty with the navajo insight you can go home. Its not a reservation and you cannot leave it. But off you go. So this forced a movement of populations is still ongoing. We can make an argument about the internment of the o japanese americans during world war ii and linking those. Is outside our time range you can make some sort of connections there. All right, questions about the trail of tears along the walk . Dawson . Did they have any like written recorded statistics for how long they were makingg them walk like every day . I do not know exactly how. How much per day. We are talking between three and 400 miles in 18 days. I am not a mathematician but im sure someone can figure that out, samantha . Could be argued this view of the first german camps even before world war ii or is it is it a verybe different condition compared to where it wouldve beendi in the internment camps . It is a tricky question. It is different on one level 20 the same on another level. Its it forced a movement of individuals to a specific location. In the into a confined space. That said, most of these camps do not have fencing around them. At that level its not the same. But in terms of those who leave the camps are then tracked down and either killed or brought back. These are places you are not allowed to leave. Could be argued this was kind of the original . I dont know if you could. I would actually argue and i do not know. But i would imagine colonial powers have been using concepts like this prior to the 1860s. And i imagine that even during things the korean war there couldve been aspects of this i dont know off the top of my head exactly when that begins. The idea of leading a population of the time of war does not seemed like it is any concept but i do not have specific dates. That i could give you otherwise, sorry. Ti other questions, these are great questions. Okay. Then lets shift gears a little bit. Talk about a different trail, the oregon trail. Now, i aint going to lie i love leading the oregon trail when it was the videogame. You went over the river, died of dysentery. They text based version of the game start of the 1970s but becomes popular in the 1980s and 1990s. He start in independence missouri and youre supposed to leave your party to the ballet, crossing various rivers and problems along the way like broken axles, all kinds of dying of cholerara and dysentery. So interesting in that game. He never once encountered native americans. It is not part of the game. What youre thinking, does not make sense. It legitimately does not make sense for there is no way it when you can travel in independence, missouri 180 days is 140 days theres no way he couldve done that. Without and counting native americans at their written completely out of the game. They only popped up in our exhibit vision of westward expansion the oregon trail plays on in those a westerns and they are always presented as an antagonistic force. Its really g interesting if we get most of our history from pop culture when you play oregon trail, you are missing some things. But oregon trail is a fantastic game and you should play it. The reason you want to get to the valley is everything to do with the for trade. And jon jacob astor and his for empire of the pacific northwest. The fur trade is big, big money. The oregon trail itself, initially which im up for traders were not time but wagon trains originally. The one they blade is not easily traversed by people in covered wagons. Lewis and clarks expedition out in the following along those lines, eventually by the 1830s you get to the first a wagon train. The problem is they get basically to t idaho and fort hl and they are stuck. Because the trail the rest of the weight you have to give up basically your wagon put everything onto some donkeys and traversed the mountains that way. Its just not possible in the early trail to actually get there by wagon. Now byf the 1840s they have cua bunch of new trails. The thing is there is no one single oregon trail. Theres a bunch of Different Things all leading from some point usually along the missouri somewhere in the missouri valley. White converge at fort carney in wetness nebraska territory. Thats usually a conversion point they called the platte river. And you go to that region. They also spent off the goldrush in california and some will fall this and say the oregon trail to a point and then dive south into california. Some will file the oregon trail to a certain point and dive off to the Great Salt Lake because we are talking about movement of the more of a populations. Some will, instead of staying in oregon country they will kind of move and head up into the puget sound region. But the thing that is really interesting is, we are talking about somewhere in the range of 400,000 people traversing land that all the early states claims it, really dont have control over it. 400,000 people are going to encountered native americans. It is going to be how they get across that territory. And there is a fear that if more and more settlers are passing whose Great American desert, theres a Movement Across the great plains i dontre like to think you are all midwestern. As youre moving across the great plains this is going to lead to conflict. And, as more and more of the white settlers do not finish the journey. They dont go to oregon. If they stop along the way and start to claimant chunks of land that are recognized as native American Land, thats going to be a problem. Inpt 1851 you get an attempt to deal with some of this in the fort laramie o treaty. You can see fort laramie at this point on this map is nebraska territory being wyoming territory, right . This is the first of two big treaties that are going to be signed at fortfo laramie. With 1851 of fort laramie treaty is supposed to do, supposed to do, is recognized native american claims unclaimed in the region. While at the same point in exchange for that recognition and annuities kind of annual payments asserts amounts of cash to native americans, specifically we are talking abouta cheyenne, the arapahoe, a couple others i am forgetting off the top of my head. Not forget the growth. I dont know. Anyway, recognizing their territory in exchange for allowing safe passage for these settlers. With the idea they were not going to stop. You can pass through our territory to the valley thats perfectly fine with us. In exchange for you not staying, you recognize our land claim, a little bit of money would be nice. Now whenat the church when it ws negotiated a 50 year annuity until 1901 the u. S. Government will be paying these tribes nations for the right to go across their land. Congress changes it to a 10 year pay scheme. Without telling anyone who signed the treaty. Well, when they find out there like no, that is not okay. But we note the treaty was basically broken almost immediately. In part because people are just refusing to go the rest of the way to oregon. They are stopping. Chunks of land, they are homesteading, we will come back around that concept. But on top of that, the u. S. Army is not doing what it said it would do which is to their help these people along or stop them from engaging in negative activities towardsyo native americans. Basically the u. S. Army said i dont care, do whatever you want. Then in 1860 when the u. S. Armys being pulled out of the west, s we turn to the state militias. We have now got or the territorial militias you now have got large numbers of white settlers in regions they should not be in. With the people whose land the United States actually recognizes it is and when you have that type of reality youre gonna have a kind kind of a recipe for violence. So violence is actually going to escalate what ends up happening is as kind of white settlers sometimes move into certain regions and they take some of those resources. It causes internal fights. Within various native american nations as their limited resources and they fight amongst themse in other cases turns in other cases it turns into those kind of struggles that wee see all too often between white settlers and native americans and often only depicted from the middle point ofid that struggle. Right, the native americans coming in and attacks white settlers opposed to seeing it as white settlers having started that process. By claiming that land that wasnt theirs in the first place. And we can like this was significant like 1864, sand creek massacre in colorado is that problem but were not talking about war in 1867 we need graduated president but 1867 there was a desire to have a peace so Peace Commission is created by congress and told to go out and solve the problem. Theyre not going to. But theyre going to be told to go and do it. All right the Peace Commission is going to be identified as fairly large failure all things said and done in part because it can never game the trust effectively of native americans and gainiv trust of the congressional individuals who sent them there in the first place. Turning number of reasons but if there is a success, its the second treaty thats the 1868 treaty. Success is kind of a bad word all right because the treaty is a fantastic treaty so then it is violated very quickly just like the 1851 treaty but in this 1868 treaty, u. S. Government recognizes and creates great reservation. Recognizing theiz claim to the black hills essentially saying it is to the end of the universe. Most of all of west river south dakota is a part of the great reservation and theyre going to close back forths along the Bozeman Trail and gold had been found in montana so been an attempt to go out toward bozeman and find the gold and they said were going close down those forts. And they said theyre going. And then theyre going to recognize and defend and protect, you know, the boundaries of the great reservation, they dont. Io 1874 gold is found in the black hills. You know, and you notice when everything has a connection gold being found and it was in georgia gold was found in California Gold was found in montana go. Gold was found in colorado pikes peak. Gone. Almost likes theres a theme. So gone in 1874 and basically, you know the expedition find this gold and okay this will be a problem. And rather than trying to keep miners out of the black hills which theyre supposed to based on the treaty u. S. Army is like yeah okay go ahead. Do your thing. And between 1876 u. S. Government unilaterally changes the fort lare me treaty. It just changes it. Without getting the approval of anyone elsee involved. Eventually just claiming the black hills. Now, in 1980, this issue was resolved as a strong word so were not going to use it was taken up by u. S. Supreme court all right in u. S. Versus nation of indians in which the Supreme Court recognized that unilateral changing of the treaty was actions taken by the federal government were wrong. And that taking of the black hills was wrong. U. S. Government had violated the treaty it was wrong for them to do it and so the Supreme Court ruled in favor gaving i believe it was initially what 30 something million 35 35 Million Dollars and then additional 1. 1 105 million on top of that. Basically, to pay for the value of the black hills, so that the u. S. Government will black hills. To this day that money has not been touched. How much money do you know off the top of your head brandon . 4 billion. Its somewhere in the range, several billion, its increasing every dayit with interest. And theres no real desire to take because thing t is we take the money then youre saying yes, of course, it is perfectly all right for the u. S. Government to have taken this land. One point where the president wanted to sign, wanted to get the money but he was immediately rejected. Yeah there was a couple actually from what i understand there was a couple of times well maybe at this point to take the money. But theres this strong argument about never taking the money because thats ng then retroactively excusing the action that was taken. And so theres this when i first moved out of here i didnt realize kind of this notion about occupied land. And how important that still is to cut a culture in western i didnt realize. As i think many of us, you know, unless youve been heree for a while you dont see it. Samantha, yeah. Been an attempt to keep white people out at one point and pulled all of the people out and stuff was there kind of an amendment in the beginning to keep people out with that . Yes. How you know kind of yeah say that was disingenuous and how they were trying and how hearts were in it has always been an issue thats been questioned like how much theyre actively trying to do this and how much is going through the motions. But that make sense . Okay. Again, its hard to for me to say specifically how many people were no this we need to get them out and how many people kind of reaction in the u. S. Army. Was to basically allow it to happen. So sorry. Wish i had a better answer than that. Its all complicated. If we said history its complicated just moved on from there. All right okay done. By the way youre not allowed to do that in your paper you cant say it is complicated and youre done. Okay. All right last part we want to talk about and theab last kind of movement has to dos with a culture and simulation so the first stuff we were talking about is more of the question of depopulation. All right and settler and we want to pox on a transition into more of a simulation as part of settler colonialism it is worth noting that in the fort laremy treaty thats cause for on reservation for there to be a movement towardsin farming. How serious that was and still good open question. But that becomes kind of this key component right . Since the 1840s the way the United States has kind of sought to occupy territorial lands about that through thehe notionf homesteading. All right and its important to realize when we talk about home studying it is basically a important idea that unowned resources can be claimed by individuals who were then used those resources, and were largely talking about land here. But this is unowned resources. So when were talking about the settlement in kansas right kind of that homesteading process or the 1860 homestead law that gets passed by the United States government. It is this idea that theres thiss unused resource that this land is not being used or at the very least not being used appropriately. All right, sir, so this gets back to what turner was talking about and this free land idea kind off this open space. So in 1862 the federal government actually passes lawed saying if you move out to the territory, you can take make claim of 160 acres build a house, farm that land for five years you can get entitled to that land. Now 160 acres where im from back east thats the sufficient amount of land for a farm. Out here not so much. All right just because Water Resources are so limited and parts of the great plains brandon do you have a question . General public out east understand how dull the soil and barren the place was . No they didnt and one level because the Great Americany desert an they understood it was very difficult its a find necessarily Water Resources. But theres also this kind of idea that 150 acres, you know anyone can mac a good farm on 160m acres not realizing well when you have wearable water well you find it. No you wont. Because they dont understand many people the policymakers themselves dont come out and see and survey and theyre relying on second hand third hand reports. D or they just drawing lines on maps. And theyre not really understanding if you go to parts of indiana and illinois and even idaho they aref fairly flat theres rivers and water and if thats your vision and you just assume that kansas works the same as iowa or as idaho, right in terms of access to water youre not going to have only in years come out to survey the land. Eventually well that was before. So the army corps of engineers is surveying on going that doesnt mean that the people who are ready in policy are listening to the army corps of engineer. They think they would listen yeah im with you. I think youre right you think they would listen but theyre not in some cases in other cays like so, obviously, the homestead are o going to be debated. All right and so theres going to be theyre going bring in some of this. But we are talking about very singularly minded individuals you know because they know the right answer. Now they believe they have the right answer all right that they understand, and unless you have traveled significantly in the United States evenn today, it is hard to know how just how different regions of this country are. So yeah they just didnt understand. I think mainly they just didnt understand and some also army corps of engineer is in mountains and not doing stuff on the plains or so theres a number of reasons why they might not be listening to those reports. So jericho. Also stem from leak a view from like europe is a lot of different places. Could come from yes America Perspective but i think things like homesteading law is theres their encouragement is for white settlers to move so you would think that they would want to provide the best information the best policies to facilitate thatic settler movement. All shooting some of these peoples abilities assuming that everybody can do it. Could overassuming ability yes. Potentially. I dont know. Like so the idea is that 160 acres should be sufficient. All right. Realistically speaking if youre talking some of the regions without sufficient, you know, kind of Irrigation Technology youre talking 320 to maybe 640 acres is like the minimumyo you need to run a subsistence farm but dont tell somebody in pennsylvania that. All right like now i can make it on 40. You know . Because it ist like the land is so different and its hard for people to conceptionallize how different those things are and more thanmo anything maybe me is giving them the benefit of the doubt more than i should but i want to believe theyre not acting in a way to be intentionally, you know, harmful. Just they believe 160 acres should be sufficient. So i think its more than traveled out here and oh no. I think so. I think they felt they knew. And all guilty of that at some point someone comes with new information no i know and no you really dont. Im guilty of that ill admit that myself im gts guilty of that like that brandon do you have any with that [inaudible conversations] not for moving around. Thats not modern thats not, you not sedentary and have a farm settled because then they could. Yeah so you would think they would maybe go oh theres a reason why they didnt. Yes. You would think that. You would want to think that theres a reason but they dont. Because they believe they have the right answer. Li and like that keeps come back to jericho. Like with the whatever the guy with the barbaric do you think it was because they thought they were more like uncivil iosed and didnt know what they were doing and less. Because if you accept the idea that native americans are still locked in barberrism then they lack the same kind of scientific knowledge to be able to understand their world sufficiently. So you make the best uses of thosee resources. So yeah i think that plays into it definitely. But then again that doesnt answer the question if youre going to sending qhiet settlers to this region why would you not then check i dont have good answers i wish i did and you can actually see again some of them o playing out so that in the act in 1887 kind of this idea of creating 160 acres plots, taking the reservation lands and moving them from communally to privately own and individuals owningg chunks of land. In the himself talked about his court with the need to adopt the habits of civilized naturally the problem, the problem here is that native americans just arent civilized if we make them farmers, everything will be fine and whats really interesting here is 1887 were in the age coming into the progressive era in thise again this question of what is an american and how does an american function . Right and this idea of the farm and farmer as kind of the american idea is also kind of the strong emphasis and capitalism and if you have communally owned lands well thats not capitalist. But privately owned land private ownership of the means of production, enhances and expands capitalist world and this is good capitalism is the modern thing so dawson. They have these plots of land like in mind where they or do they have also a certain method of farming in mind was it like props or like livestock . They did. Largely theirly vision is kind of farming is opposed to ranching and actually sending out Scientific Data for how to farm. And most of the Scientific Data they said was just wrong. Right, some of that you as well into the 1920s and 1930s help explain the dust bowl of the 1930s theyre using scientific information that was outdated or just wrong. So you have the vision of kind of if we think just the great shoe reservation then just divided up into smarter reservations. But there wouldrv be just like plots of farms as far as the eye can see. Without really r kind of looking around going thats not going to work and some of these places. Again, they believe they have the answer. They believe they have the answer. [laughter] and so theyre trying to make that work. And so you have this idea, every head of household will get a chunk of land every household will have the certain amount. The thing is then that gets subdivided amongst errs all right, you know, and that becomes an issue if 160 acres divide amongst two sums and thats definitely not notches enough and then what the act does is it opens up that land once land divided up against those classified as sufficiently native american to receive a plot of langsdz because they start defining who is and who is not native american. How much blood do you have to have in order to be well full blooded versus mix blood and what percentage oh they get kind of creeping in there and a little worrisome. But once that happens, then they take a large chunk of the remaining and open it up for sale to nonnative settlers. So qhiet settlers could buy these chunks of land from 1887 until say 1934 and that span the act takes native American Land from about 138 million acres down to about 48 million acres. 90 millionon acres will be losts a result of this kind of allotment process. The great shoe reservation that is broken up into the different all right chunks theyre going to lose 9 million acres themselves and it is opened up to these types of White Settlement and land grabs as well and thing is what would end up happening is the under the act the household get the land 160 acres and it would be held in security by the United States for 25 years once they hit the 25 year mark they can sell it and what ended up happening is a lot of people start 25 years down the line start selling off that land again to nonnative land buyers. So even the land that had them divided amongst native americans is now gobbled up by white settlers asti well so a whole process shifts inel that direction. So were talking about again kind a of this massive restriction or loss of land in this process. But again, the idea was to convert native americans to what is the modern way the modern american way of doing things. So thats this whole process of assimilation. Theres not just happening amongst americans with native american were going talk about this next week with immigration. All right and this process of what how to become american. And were going to talk about settlement about settlement houses and progressive era all right theyre different but they have very similar goals in mind as the boarding schools. All right boarding schools that are going to be created in the late 19th century the idea of them well, i mean, Richard Henry gives us the idea to kill the indian and save the man, the idea that by teaching and individuals in kind of the white middle class American Culture you can erase the limitations created by become native american and enter intoan the modern world. Again what does it mean to be american . How do you get to that . In 1879 United States indian and Industrial School in carlisle, pennsylvania sometimes it is just called the Carlisle School all right and its run by Richard Henry pratt Richard Henry pratt had been commander at fort maryann i believe it was fort maryann in florida. During the refer to as the dakota war, the great sue war in 17, 1876 all right pows from that war native americans were taken to florida and held at fort maryann. And pratt was in charge of the pows. And he got this idea in 1878 that if these pows were trained in english and American Culture, that they could then return to great sue reservation and return out west and be emissaries for the culture so he actually kind of works with the Hampton Institute in virginia created18 in 1868 as a school fr friedman to be trained how to be american after slavery. Okay, in 1878 they started an Indian School version of this what they called it hampton and then pratttt basically pitched this idea to congress and congress is like all right cool lets do this and so they set up a school in carlisle and he goes over and he is going to lead this, and from 1879 to 1918, about 10,000 native americans will go through this school from about 140 different tribes. And tell a lot of people coming through this but initially starting group, the group out to carlisle are the lacoda and theyre brought as leverage to prevent another uprising basically we have your kids, you cant fight back. Because we have your kids we are the u. S. Government good job. Come on, right . Whew the moment you step foot in carlisle they basically, they stripped everything that was native american of you. Am all right every aspect of your heritage from your hair to your clothes, to your language to your religion. 10,000 kids a list of them who didnt speak english on any level were baptized as christians not ever being told what that meant. So just kind of everything about you has to fundamentallize you your own name. Like list of names on like a board on a wall and then you had to pick one so this stairs of people basically pointing at a bunch of symbols they dont know what they mean. And that becomes their name. You were severely beaten if you continue to use the language of your ancestors. And that became a resistance tool all right remember we were talking about slavery and resistance activities all right so continuing to speak your own language became a resistance activity. All right, School Property became a resistance activity so let me fight back dont get me wrong they are not ac we but we are talking about regimen life and uniform and drills all of these kind of things and the school becomes kind of the model for a bunch of federally funded offreservation schools. Thats going to be 25, i think at one point in 15 different states in territories. That doesnt count hundreds of schools that are on reservations that are largely run by religious organizations. In 1891 Congress Passes a law requiring the attendance of native American Children in these schools. They have to go. All right, and this law empowers federal agents to basically rip kids out of the arms of their parents and sending them to these schools. All right, all of this as a way toti force assimilation. The idea is once theyre going through th schools once theyve been immersed american kind of white culture once theyve learned english once theyve learned skills that are messha in the industrial ag, they are a i believe to return to reservation to be emissaries for this culture. Now, of course, when they return they found they were ostracized and rejected because they were no longer of that culture or at least significant distance had been built between them. And were talking about people coming back with significant problemsms ptsd all right high rates of depression. In these schools were talking really poor conditions. In some cases kids had to build the very buildings they were going to live in fantastic. Suicide rates were extremely high at these schools. Think about how traumatic tht is. I mean not just for the person who has died, but the kids. Oh, yes. Im building a coffin for my friend. Sexual abuse was rampant disease spread quite regularly disease spread effectively and efficiently. Overcrowded and undersupplied. Thousands of kids coming through the system. I what is so interesting is the idea they were supposed to go back to the w reservation they were supposed to then help bring the rest of their tribes and nations into the modern age through this newew education thy have received. Many wentn back and use that education to fight. They went back and filed lawsuits. Not s knowing how the legal sysm worked they went back as lawyers and thoughts read they went back and sat up schools on the reservations to teach their language and heritage. You will not destroy us. It has the reverse effect in some cases. But all this is part of a much larger process. This whole notion that we started from the settler colonialism idea. What does it mean to be american . How does that work . Give all these people now that fit certain aspects of what it means to be american but are they american . Again even the back to the 1830s and the cherokees that printed newspapers that have a written constitution this adopted slavery. They have done alle of the thins that white people said you have to do in order to be part of the society. Butt they can never undo one thing, they are always going to beat native american. They are never going to be white. But if that is the case, it can they ever claim to be american . One of the things are going to talk about in the next couple of weeks it is what does it mean to be an american . We start here with native americans were going to talk about americans by choice if you will, next week. We Start Talking but immigration things like that. Arece there any questions, concerns, issues at this point . All right, well good. I will see you next week and we will pick up and go from there. Thanks guys. Have a good one. If you are a joint American History to be signed up for our newsletter using the qr code on the screen to receive that weekly schedule of upcoming programs like lectures and history, the presidency and more. Site for the American History tv newsletter today be sure to watch American History tv every saturday or anytime online at cspan. Org history. Order your copy of the 118 congressional directory now available at cspanshop. Org. It is short access to the federal government with a bio and Contact Information for every house and Senate Member and Important Information on congressional committees, the president s cabinet federal agencies and state governors. Can the code at the right to order your copy tod or go to cspanshop. Org pit is 29. 95 plus shipping and handling and every purchase helps support our nonprofit operations. He spent shop. Org is cspans online store. Browse to the latest collection cspan products, apparel, books, home to core, and accessories for their something for every cspan fan. Every purchase helps support our nonprofit operations. Shop now or any time at cspan shop. Org. Weekends on the cspan2 are an intellectual feast. Every saturday American History tv documents americas story appeared on sunday, book tv brings you the latest in nonfiction books and authors. Funding for cspan2 comes in these Television Companies and more including cox. Is extremely rare. But friends dont have to be. When you are connected, you are not alone. Cox, along with these Television Companies support cspan2 as a public service