Transcripts For CSPAN2 House Hearing On Insurance Coverage During COVID-19 20240711

Themselves after they are finished speaking. Consistent with the regulations house resinac 965, staff will mt members and witnesses after the process. Tewe are not recognizing background noises. Orr and decorum apply to this remote hearing. His hearing is entitled ensurin against a pandemic colin challenges a solutions for policyholdersle and insures. I w recognizeyself for three minutes to give an opening statement. According to theongressional Retail Service 1 million peop could enter a sta of extreme poverty due to the Global Economic contraction a here in the United States 67 mlion people have filed for unemployment insance since march of this year or the harmful eects of ts pandemic on the stability of sml sinesses like restaurants nnot be overstated. They have been obliterated. Dozens of restaurants in my home strict and ms. And st. Louis have closed in wh them the vendors who sell the farmers are owing the food truck driver Storage Facility facilities and entire suppl chains are all affect it. Though many businses have insurance most of the policies have exclusions for pandemics which are likely to be ueld in court. Iould add for many Small Businesses around this country the probability of even enforcing a policy is unlikely given the high cost of litigation. On the other hand it is not realistic or practical to expect the Insurance Industry to shoulder the astronomical cost of a Global Pandemic. The american property and Casualty Insurance association has estimated paying all claims regardless of exclusions would amount to 1 billion. Month. I have flawed mike colleagues like congressman thompson and the input fromy industries. My bottom line is that any solution would lead to a affected by and fromndustry and deal with the conunum by the fact that many of the interruptions and cases being adjucated have been dismissed not only because of but also because of the lack of direct physical loss or damage. For businesses there is a expert nion that you would have some skin in the game particularly if you are going to petition or even exct government assistance. Indeed perhaps industry could work with business consumer groups to devise a type of umbrella polic for which the business pays a suitable creamy amend its insured for costs. The system s is rife with confusion and complexity. It is my firm belief that a Small Business owner should not need a battalion of lawyers to handle their Insurance Claim after faithfully paying their premium. I look forward to the testimony of eyewitnesses as we roll up our sleeves and try to find a viable solution. At this time the chair now recognizes mr. Tivers. Thank y chair mcclain thank you f convening this hearing. First it like to take a moment to thank our colleague from new york congresswoman maloney. Her efforts to put forward an idea as early as may of this year her work should be applauded as a symbolic firs step that id like to te a step backward and put this hearing in perspective. The problems and solutions we are going to discuss today are about creating a plan for the ne pandemic. For that reason its so much more important that we get this right and that we do it fast. Congresswoman maloney has reached out toe and asks for bipartisan collaboration. I feel very strongly as you do tor. Chairman that any product that we put forward must have meangful support from both parties and ultately if we will have impact on Senate Deliberations we need a bipartisan agreement. As the Ranking Member of the subcommittee i can tell you republicans are committed to working in a bipartisan way that we need to make sure that as we do that i think again we take a step back and dont start with a preconceived outcome. While we take a ste back maybe will end up using an Insurance Industry model u or maybe will d up with the noninsurance ppp ant, and ceria paramedic ppp grant that whatever we do we st make sure it solves the probleof businesses that are shut down during the next pandemic could summon my colleagues today may focus on existing framerkn pce for a Risk Insurance but i want to be really clear the scale and scope of a pandemic is orders of magnitude bigger than a rrorist attack. You illustrated that to. Chairman to think we c should spend her their time trying to understand the nature of the problem and the issues around those people that will be testifying today. People that her experience problems daytoday. Furthermore as we have seen the pandic has proven disastrous for onetime large events as ll. Any solution that we address must look at debt cancellatn as well and thats not something thats in this pposed legislation at all. Ive likeme now to yield some te to the Ranking Member up before youo while i im not advocating for any one proposal i would ask unanimous consento enter this Coalition Statement into the record. They did not have a witness that was allowed for this hearing so mrchairman it lik to ask unanimous consent to introduce it int the record. Sin without objection the statement is mr. Stivers i want to recognize the chairman of the committee and then i will recognize mr. Mchenry. Thank you for holding this hearing mr. Chairman. I think this is a critical first step and i look forward to working with you to get things done i yield back. The gentleman yields back and now i recognize thehairman of the full committee from california for one minute. Thank you very much chairman clay. When the covid19 pandemic hit in march most businesses were devastated. They were largely unable to rely on their interacted insurance policies to cover these losses. Economic forecasters are warning that Small Businesses many of which have not recovered well the destruction they have experienced this year may permanently close if policymakers dodd. Congress has Important Role to play but with the election of president elect biden i am hopeful the government will respond to this pandemic with effective leadership which has been and continues to be absent under the current president. I am looking forward to todays discussion of the various paths forward and i think the witnesses that we will have here today. Ii yield back great thank you very much mr. Chairman. I now recognize the Ranking Member of the full committee the gentleman from North Carolina for two minutes mr. Mchenry. Thank you chairman clay. Chairman clay thank you for your leadership. You have been a starting at the kid for your deeply held convictions during your time in congress and i want to commend you for also your bipartisan work in congress. Its been an honor to serve with you on the Financial Services committee. Thank you. Thank you and i appreciate the committee holding this hearing. I know its delayed echoes of the nature of this Election Year eld whate has happened across e last couple of months. It its an important issue to tens of millions of americans and Small Business folks. I appreciate the work of the gentlelady from new york ms. Maloney and what shes done on this issue. Its showing that congress should get to work on a Pandemic Response for future pandemics. And while i have concerns about the construct of her legislation pria and i think they are a number of unsolved problems than it its a nice first step to start this conversation. There are some unworkable parts which she has laid out. There are some unresolved parts that i think we can work through and come to a bipartisan agreement that will have lasting impacts on small as this is an folks across the country. In i think their businesses do deserve a bipartisan solution that builds on existing successful ideas that we have put in place over the last year. I think we need to look at solutions that incentivize participation. We need to look at solutions that are scaled, solutions that use their state ice skate to harness the power of her statebystate Regulatory Environment and look at existing programs like ppp that ive saved millions of Small Businesses. So thank you mr. Chairman. Thanks for your leadership and i look forward to the meeting. Sin thank you so much mr. Mchenry and now i want to recognize the chairwoman of the committee of oversight and reform the gentlelady from new york ms. Maloney for two minutes. Thank you chairman. The chairwoman of subcommittee clay for holding this important hearing. After the terrorist attacks of 9 11 the economy in new york completely shut down. We couldnt build anything because Insurance Companies did not ensure any property against terrorist attacks. So we came together in ate bipartisan way and passed pria. Pria a lot the market got the economy moving again and put people back to work and thats what we are trying to do at the pandemic Risk Assurance act. Tens of thousands of Small Businesses have closed their doorsse permanently, entire industries from travel film and television have been upended and they have no way to protect themselves from future pandemic related problems. Current businessss interruption policies explicitly exclude pandemics. We cant continue to expose our economy and Small Businesses to this level of risk and expect them to recover. We know thehe federal government will step enduring the next crisis so why not a proactive and develop a longTerm Solution . Pria is a starting point for forwardlooking publicprivate Risk Sharing Partnership that would revive the federal backstop for Business Interruption policies that include coverage for pandemics. Pria would created totally voluntary program. Insurers could provide policies if they wanted to and policyholders could purchase them if they wanted to. It is totally voluntary. Pandemic risk is insurable with an appropriate federal backstop and this is supported by more than 50 stakeholder organizations. At this point we are simply debating the best way to structure such a program and dymally to collaborate with any of my colleagues democratic republican and stakeholders to improve this bill and do just that. Mr. Chairman may i place in the record the list of the 50 organizations and Insurance Companies that are now supporting its . Without objection and the gentwomans time has expired. Thank you. Today we welcome the testimony of o witnesses. Owner of andys lieu river general store on perhaps of the National Rail federation. We also have john president and ceo of march and mclennan. Chief Corporate Counsel on behalf of a pci a. Michelle melendez mclaughlin rj lehman executive editor of international economics. Witnesses are reminded that tearful testimony will be limited to five minutes and in fiveinutes you should be able to see a time on your screen that will indica how much time you have left and a chime will go off at the end of ur time. I would ask you to be mindful of the time and quickly wrap up your testimony when you hear the chimes a week and be respectful of the Committee Members time. Without objection your written statement will beade partf the record and ms. Cantrell u are now recognize her five and to give yourral presentation of your testimony could you may proceed. Good morning chairman clay and Ranking Member stivers its an honor to appear before you today to discuss pandemic Risk Insurance from a policyholders perspective. I would like to give a specialrs shout out and thanks to my congresswoman Lydia Vasquez has been a champion for women. We have been woman oriented since the get go and im proud of the house business committee. The fact that this hearing is being held just the members of Congress Care about people on main street. The National Retail federation and partners with congressman Carolyn Maloney has sponsored the act and would like to thank her for leadership her leadership. We look forward to bringingle muchneeded muchneeded protection to retailers across the country of an suffering during this crisis. Retail sales and jobs have been devastated by the pandemic that this is not only Health Crisis but a dire merchant sea. And honored to appear on behalf of of im joining you from Brooklyn New York words had the pleasure and honor of owning a gift shop for the past 13 years. We are committed to store people look to us as the pillar of hope in the neighborhood. Kids meet their friends at a shop to get a gift for the teacher. Parents bring their child for a treat at the store if they get a shot and people come in daily to see what the hoar all this changed in march when the world started to cave in around us because of covid19. When we discuss closing on march friday the 13th i called my Insurance Company. We have an honest relationship and he knows my business well. He then follows my shop an instagram top me to measure risk and thats what he called the location seven years ago when we quadrupled the business. His been extremely helpful and stray further member proudly showing him my new space in explaining the insurance policy that would cover 12 months of business income of something should happen my business and i need to shut down. Ive already special insurance with a heart for cents on Insurance Company which caused 6182. 56 annually. This is a big expense for Small Business one i thought would help me in a crisis situation however harsh reality set in pretty quickly learned that pandemics are excluded from Insurance Companies like mine. There would be no relief for my Insurance Company or Business Interruption because it is not Property Damage. Insurance companies should not deny policyholders coverage. What happened to like a Good Neighbor . Azide go back to my email conversations with my broker he heard the desperation and my tongue when he realized what was happening. Even though it says restaurants to be covered there was no relief in sight. I made calls my landlord and try to figure out how to keep my financial petitions and our next move. The next few months was the darkest the my life. I had dedicated years of my life compounded by the frustrating dramatic experience of a quarantine and hoping to get a ppp loan. We did receive a ppp loan and like to thank members of congress as part of the cares act which helped us keep afloat. We missed some really big holidays like easter and mothers day and at theve same or 2090 we made 300,000. This year we made a little more than half. I understand the pandemic insurance is a solution that would only cover future pandemic. We never know when im out next pandemic book, and we didnt see this one coming. I urge members of congress to provide some sort of relief to businesses that the government mandate during covid19 even if its not in the former of this is interracial interruption insurance. The National Root of federation is the member of the coalition. They have extended pandemic coverage. Provides production insurance Employment Practices liability and other lives been hard hit i covid19 to the pandemic Risk Insurance establishes a federal program that would help as this is obtain Insurance Coverage for pandemics modeled on the terrorism insurance followinggr 9 11. It is time for washington to do the same for the pandemic. The country needs a pandemic Risk Insurance act. Not every pandemic will have a worldwide impact but this legislation is the cornerstone of a product of approach in managing risk in a pandemic of a pandemic in the future of but its time for a real solution to solve a real problem. Thank you so much ms. Cantrell. Youre now recognized for five minutes to give an oral presentation of your testimony. Thank you and good morning members and good morning members of many. My name is john doyle and present ceo of the Worlds Largest Insurance Broker the business of the marshall companies would appreciate that opportunities be due for the need of the Public Record partnership to ensure pandemic or risk that of a covid19 and foremost ast human tragedy we are deeply concerned by its impact on the economy and our clients. Our primary role has an Insurance Broker and risk advisers to be an advocate for our clients which is why im here with you today. Atmar should believe the public or the partnership is the best option to pursue for pandemic risk solution. For that reason i want to recognize the leading role the congresswoman maloney has had in the debates including introducing legislation that has brought us here today. Although some of suggested conger should delay until the current pandemic is over we feel there are compelling reasons to act now. First acting out of Public Private pandemic risk solution will accelerate the economic recovery by reducing uncertainty. Moving forward Capital Markets will seek assurance that companies have protection against prospective pandemic risk. In case of recovery will depend upon the nature and the degree of confidence in the marketplace. Second taking action that will provide financial protection against future pandemics in part by absorbing some of absorbing some the pandemics initial financial shock. 33 start now the time in the right solutions we can bend the risk curve for future pandemics are insurance creates the right economic incentives to drive changegef in society. Moving quickly will help us to harness Risk Management and build a more resilient u. S. Economy. By definition pandemics are global meaning clients and insurers cannot diversify against them as they can with other catastrophes. The stakes around pandemic risk for policyholders and these include businesses and organizations of all sizes and from all sectors are too high to defer action. As we have thought about developing a workable solution the following principles have guided us prefer to look at Risk Mitigation and resilience. How should the solution be designed so in advance measure to encourage resilience in the community. For example she did incentivize preventative measures on the part of insureds . Should have been in best resilience initiatives are appealing to ongoing government commitments to build resiliency. Next is the funding problem. The Publicprivate Partnership should facilitate increase private market facilitation overtime with an appropriate level of industry commitment. Third the third principle involves the scope of coverage. Should the coverage be compulsory for insurers to offer and should also be compulsory at some level to purchase . Next is c distribution and an operating model. The solution must contemplate the infrastructure required to operate the scheme on a Going Forward basis and the technology thats needed to meet its objectives. Finally the claim process. The solution must include all welldefined trigger that identifies relevant threshold and specifies how and when claims are to be. The credit and power of the u. S. Government is essential to creating a program that harnesses the financial and social benefits of insurance to mitigate pandemic related will providing e greater certaiy about sustained recovery. At the same time i believe the Insurance Industry has a role to play. To which you may be asking our pandemics insurable . The answer is complex for the last several months have demonstrated traditional Insurance Solutions andt the commercial Insurance Market is not fully provide as is this is anothers with the protection they need against the enormous a the pandemic. Pandemic insurance has existed for a long time but has rarely been purchased. Its cost in the low likelihood of an event makes policyholders reluctant to ensure again at the same time various insurance policies explicitly exclude pandemic risk are the main reason for that is the payouts while sporadic can be so enormous that they exceed the insurers capacity to spare them for despite that Many Companies are looking to existing policies for help with the ongoing financial loss from covid19. Even withoutty specific pandemic insurance emplace insurers will undoubtedly pay out tens of billions of dollars in covid19 related losses. Nevertheless some policyholders will be disappointed. The complex nature of pandemic risk means that we need Strong National pandemic Risk Management. This requires insurers back at the federal government to raise pandemic insurance policies and for brokers to contribute her wrist knowledge and infrastructure. Widespread pandemic coverage would make the insurance sector the first line of economic response to future outbreaks. The Public Private partnership will facilitate coverage align the needs of insurance buyers and insurers to avoid losses and incentivize pandemic risk preparedness and mitigation brit overtime modarres program can spur technologies Insurance Products and processes to mitigate losses associate with pandemics. Publicprivate partnerships have proven to build the economy. While pandemic risk is different from terrorism as we created incentives for our insureds [inaudible] thank you and i look forward to your questions. Thank you mr. Doyle and at this time we will go to ms. Mclaughlin. You are now recognized for five minutes to give an oral presentation of your testimony. Please proceed. Please unmute. Okay, you are on. Sorry. Good morng chairman cy franqui member stivers and subCommittee Members. My name i Michelle Menendez mclaughlin. And the chief uerwriting officer for the Small Business and commercial market at chubb. Chubb is on the largest inrers of small medium and Large Businesses around the world with over 16,000 employees and 44 branches. Thank you for inviting me to speak regarding pandemic ris and our ideas for creating a Publicprivate Partnership that includes risk by thensurance industry. My role is a unique insight to the economic effects of the pandemic especially for sll business consumers and i apprecte the opportunity to discuss our perspective with u. As covid19 has shown and mx are not only impacti Peoples Health and lives but also devastating in their impact on the economy and peoples livelihoods. We believe the insance industry has an Important Role to play alongside the federal government in providing assistance to businesses to blunt the economic impactsf future pandemics. Some risk and. Loes so great that they are not insurable in the rivered Insurance Market without substantial i government suppor. Ndemics unlike other catastrophes like wildfiresnd hurricanes are not limited to specif geography, time period or risk class but instead can affect entire economies in almost every business for the private Insurance Market cannot underwrite the shutdown of the u. S. Economy but with substantial government involvement the Insurance Industry can and should have a meaningful role in providing coverage apart of the Publicprivate Partnership. Industry involvement will lead greater understanding of pandemic risk, better prepared this and improve mitigation. Chubb. A framework to help congress thk about ways to do that but our proposal has two components around five Key Attributes for the new program that provides a meaningful role forhe Insurance Industry to share pandem risk with the government a structure that recognizeshe immediate needs of Small Business, provides affordability and choice f Small Businesses with strong incentes to purchase coverage and timely cake claim payments in a cris. Our program shoulprovide incentives for broad participatn by the iurance industry and b fiscally responsible. The fit component addresses the needs of Small Businesses and the second focuses on middle and Large Businesses. We have bifurcated the program because pandemics affect small and rge businesses differently. They require a different approach. The details are included in my written testimony but briefly part one is for small businees. Provides coverage for up to three nths of payroll ps other expenses such as rent and utilities. Claims are based on a predetermine amount and pay automatically when the program is tggered. Thisrovides policyholders with certainty that they wl receivero timely Financial Assistance afr an event. The industry share of the risk increases from 15 billion in the first year the program to 30 billnfi over 20 years. To address t concern that some insurers mht not have the Financial Capacity to assume risk each individual insureds retention isased on its market share so a smaller ensurwith the less market share would assume less liability and are the program. Policyholders and pay for private sector coverage not the government provided assistance which keeps premiums affordable. Part two creates a federal reinsurance facility for businesses wh more than 500 employees. Ivate Insurance Companiesty that choose self coverage would write pandemic policies that market term a retain some portion of th risk. The st would be reinsureds ich would be. Adequate rates forroviding coverage. Purchase would be voltary and insurers could select one to three months t of coverage witha maximum payout of 50 miion. Policy. We estimate the exposure wou the 400 billionith private insurers absorbing this tee billion dollars of that in your one incasing to 30 billion in year 10 of t program. R proposal is one of several that has been suggted in recent months that the framework might not answer all the questions but we believe that dressing this unique needs of small medium and Large Businesses and a significant risktakingole for the industry is critical to the success of any program. We appreciate your interestn chubbs perspective and look forward to working with you on this critical issue. Thank you. Thank you so much ms. Mclaughlin and now we will recognize mr. Lehman. You are recognized for five minutes to give your oral presentation. Yo may proceed. Thank you rank member stive and members of the subcommittee em as senior fellow at the International Center for law a economics. I would go further and raise the qution of whether sharons is a structure problem. Insurancenc is a system of transfer not aystem of economic assistance. The committee is heard fr me before and theangers of hazard insurance and went to be clear that i dontave those concerns. At i would the planere to backstop recurs cp or ability thats where you need price signs to signal businesses to invest in mitigation and protect their employees and their customers. Business interruption is another story but there is no moral hazard because theres nothing a business can do to avoid pandemic so there may be a role for the federal government to support business disruption but understand t limits of that approach. While busesses have that less than a third pria would removeirus exclusion butind claims britneyroperty Insurance Claim including for siness interruption meaer said damage to the property. Thlegal theory in covid claims contamation is physical damage is a bit of a bank shot. It has nothi to do with contaminating surfaces. Thats not covered by property insurance. Alsoheres a pandec claimed that requires there be a shutdown because businesses that plummeted before the shutdown plummeted in shtetl consumers did not want to be infected. Theres no Insurance Claim for that. The best argument for Public Transit partnerships is that insurers can help policyholders mitigate risk. They cant mitigate the risk. Not the rest of the business is unsafe rate thats not a liability so if you try to reduce the risk of the business shutting down but the pandemic we want this as the shutdown we want them to have a safety net so they can shut down and survived and not lobby lockdown orders. Thats a situation where schools are closed and the barzan gyms are open so we have long. The gospel of riskbased insurance and im telling you its not a. Space program. Over or would work remotely to say the least that restaurants movie theaters and churches would pay the most. I dont think that the outcome you want. How much is changed since the proposal of pria p. P. E. Were proposed. I think the threemonth benefit was my idea in april. That same generous. Pria was a 550 milliondollar announces 750 billiondollar. Not only is it not enough if theres one pot of money if the root place covid it would be eaten up via new york. We can try to draw some lessons but lets be humble about how little we know even about current pandemics. We want participation with a bias toward small i business. They want insurance available to them. They shouldnt be justin Insurance Industry program. When he processors to help market it. You dont want to go to the claims adjustment process the process takes forever and as i mentioned earlier some of those claims will end up in court to the ppp idea is much better and can get out the door as quickly as possible. Ppp specifies use of any could argue that either way but lawmakers understand thats not how Business Interruption works. The Business Interruption claim at the same time they stop its employees are another option is. Their own program and partially reimbursee them and you wouldnt have a run on the bank that pria proposes and above all my recommendation is to take your time ad Hoc Solutions might be as good as it gets, get help for businesses workers and communities who need it right now. Dont legislate for the next pandemic while we are in the midst of a current one. Thank you and id be happy to answer any questions. Thank you so much mr. Lehmann now we have will go to mr. Kuhlman. You are now recognized for five minutes. Mr. Kuhlman. Tha you chairman clay ranking memr stivers and membersf the committee thank you for the opportunity to b here today my name is brian kuhlmannd the senior Corporate Counsel for shelterd Insurance Company for shelter is a Mutual Company is headquartered in cumbia missouri and founded in 1946 primarily to serve the iurance needs of missouri farmers and our success has enabled us to grow into company that now writes aut property business and Life Insurance in 21 states and conducts businesses internatiolly. Im here today im here today in behalf of the american pperty and Casualty Insurance association andne the National Association of mual Insurance Companies which tether represent more than 90 of home auto in this as insureds in the country. When the covid19 pandemic first hit earlier this year shelter to prom and strong action to serve the needs of our pocyholders. As a Mutual Company wakes us because of our policyholders to put their they have been us a exct us to be there when they ve a problem. Since march we provided remember leaf and worked th policyholders on a casebycase basis to help them do their current financial challenges. Additionally the Shelter Foundation is offering ch of our 1400 agents each 1000 to desiate a charity working to respd to local covid19 needs. Shelter is known for doing the right thing and well respond to this rapidly evolving situation but will continuein to e do the right thing by policyholders entsev and employees are businesses to help provide peace of mind by developing resolutions and this committee in congress go abo the important work ahead of planning for future pandemics however it is imperate we understand the core principle not every risk is ensure bull. The reality is insurers and insunce regulators across the country understand thelobal pandemic risk is generally uninsurable in the private market practices true before covid19 will be chew after covid19 for a number of reasons including to diversify pandemic risk and tspread losses across different groups. This is a fundamental insurance but covid19 is affecting tens of millions of businesses simultanusly number of witnesses in need of protection to provide tt protection. Understandingo he Global Pandemicsre not uninsurable and alternative mechanism will be necessaryco to protect this assist from future pandemics. Whatever that mechanism looks like it should be focused on providing real efficie and effective Financial Assistance to all american businessesnd nonprofits. Our industry believes that our risk eertise and infrastructure can help but the pandemic solution even if we cannot shoulder the direct financial burden of the pandemic. To that end we have studied relevant catastrophic protection models met with many steholders in businesses and put together proposal called the business connuity Protection Plan for the dcp p. Modeled lsely after the damage of Insurance Corporation created by congress during world war ii it would provide a straightforward revenue replacement solution for bunesses andpr nonprofits of all sizes. It would set up a program with the u. S. Treasury to administer federally subsidize revenue Product Available to any business or nprofit indu the u. S. Americas Small Businesses could access the program and purchase to three months of 80 revenue placement dtributed through licensed insurance professionals. This is as good then usese these funds to pay salaries rented a drop ring costuring the pandemic. A parametric trigger mechanism wouleliminate theriction to ensure a quick automated relief of Current Conditions established in advance. This process would put cash in the hands of this is as imdiately avoiding a long detailed coverag analysis for compleclaims adjustment or seizure responding tthe two Stakeholder Feedback it contemplates an excess program of deb cancellation provisions for customers to seek additional protection or in need of more speclized coverage. Most importantly the dcp p. Is the current proposal that would be most affordable for america smallpo business. Even with a federal backdrop coverage under the rosa would be far more expensive than most businees cant afford. Those dcpp part of the federally subsidized and woulde made more affordable than other proposed programs. That would incur to high take rate which is essential for preserving the broader economy during a crisis. We are appreciative that the ideas in the proposals that have been brought forwa by congressional lders in the Business Community to addres the pandemic risk challenges. Are committed to working with the ownolutions to find effective andffordable protection. Thank you very much. Thank you mr. Kuhlmann and we thank everyone for their testimony could will now move to the questioning and i recognize myself for five minutes. According to the National Association of Insurance Commissioners over 194,000 Business Interruption claims have been made during the covid19 pandemic and less than 1 of these claims have been paid out. I would make the point that to operate a business in this country we should not need a battalion to understand and lay claims on your policy if necessary. Most Business Owners have not exposed Business Interruption insurance and language that is frustrating to understand especially when you are trying to pay your staff deal with payroll taxes and protect against other potential liabilities. Ms. Cantrell this is for you. Can you please share the policyholder perspective here . What kind of a told us is pandemic have on businesses like your own and admitted businesses who believe they have policies that would protect them . Many o my colleagues have closer businesses not abl to survive and this is devastating in so many ways. One colleague had for people working for her and another head for 18 years. Its been strsful. Thank you for that response. Mr. Kuhlmann after the terrorist attacks of september 11, 2001 lenders would not support Major Construction projects without votes guaranteeing that the project had which at the time was virtually an available. Congress responded by passing pria 2002. Today we are considering the pandemic Risk Insurance act which is based largely on pria although the cost to insureds in a terrorism event is at the scale of the pandemic is even bigger. Mr. Kuhlmann aarp pandemics and terrorism comparable enough such as a pria model can be used to provide coverage for pandemics to . Thank you firmer your question mr. Chairman. Ide dont believe that it is an acceptable model. Terrorism risk is by its very nature a very different race than the pandemic risk for the terrorism risk is something that is localized and the risk itself can be spread out throughout the country were as the claims paid out with the localized to one certain region pandemic on the other hand is something that is occurring simultaneously across the country with claims that would have to be paid out simultaneously throughout the country. Its just a very different risk. Let me followup. Although largely successful pria his face criticism for relatively low takeup rates among Small Businesses and attempting to replicate pria, this pria model for the pandemic as well. Thank you chairman. I do believe that you would indeed exacerbate the problems thatou outlined with pria that we dont necessarily feel criticisms are warren said with pria but they think basing this on a similar model would exacerbate that because of the inility to spread the risk. Are there other ways to spread its . The pria model would be used for pandemics. I think the risk is as i said mr. Chairman its a very different risk but i dont think can be based off of pria for this purpose but i think the product would be unaffordable to. Fair enough and thank you and i now recognize the distinguished Ranking Member for five minutes mr. Savage. Mr. Stivers. Mr. Stivers is on mute. And you hear me . Mr. Chairman i reshape those questions. Im going to step back and look at t scope and scale of trio compared to pria t risk because they are big differences here. A i think its hard to me the io model work for a pandemic. My firstuestion and thanks for beg here today with the current version ofria capping liability of 750 billion assume we have do we have to shut down the United Statesconomy for two months and many analysts have said its about a trillion dollars a month. Assume its a twomonth shutdown because of the next pandemi anything is 50 billion who would responsibleor tt because thats more than the total reserves of the enti property a casualty industry. Thank you congressman. As you suggest in your opening remarks we applaud congresswoman maloney for putting a proposal on the table. Theres no question it has limitations and as some of my fellow participants on the panel testifying before you today the economic consequences of the pandemic are different or can be quite different than a terrorism event. We would need to find a way to scale up that capacity depending upon the overall and vions. Just for the record would that be true that above the 702 billiondollar limit Insurance Companies would be on the hook. I think thats right or they would be reluctant to participate presuming voluntary produce a patient. Seemed. Because of that you find almost no Insurance Companies that would be willing to participate in the current models we are talkingnt about today of the draft legislation and i think that is sort of the key and if people dont participate it wont work. Ici appreciate that im by the y appreciate our conversations when we talk about it and i appreciate you taking the principlebased approach where we need to step back start with a approach and sit down for with a big group and figure out away forward on this. It may be an insurancebased approach and it may be another approach. Frankly i do like building private capacity but im troubled by the fact that its hard to make the government taking insurable risk could will be cando is the liability of each individual Insurance Company so at some small level over time i dont think we can truly make this an insurable risk and i would like to ask mr. Kuhlmann do you think theres any way to make this an insurables risk . So assing that we can make it into t red, we did start 20 an exact dollar stop law and wit that, its comforting depending on obviously where tha stuff causes. And then well talk about with the mea to federal program. Su, i think congressman, that using an insurance based model, you alsoave to factor in the addressing process for that and the cost and the time of thedjusting process for that. And affordability. Just for a second, the parametric trigger base. Because on the pandemic, there is a designer scale for the adjustment process. So is a trigger based trigger matrix approach. What i would be concerned about if we look at this current covid19 pdemic, we had wildfires in colorado. Even tornado in arkansas. We fed hurricanes in louisiana. These are policy holders that we are therefore that we are paying out and taking care of io do that. [inaudible]. Only a few seconds here. So i want you to get to answering that. Mr. Mclaughlin, with the conversation. [inaudible]. [inaudible]. Deeply important part of that is missing here. Im sorry Ranking Member, had a hard time hearing your question. [inaudible]. Have you. About our cancellatn covege . Certainl our proposal is trying to cover main stree in erica. As of the proposal Going Forward it really does not contemplate that portion but certainly the framework summer, we can expand it so you can see that is needed in the future as well. Thank you. It. Thes time has expired and now recognize the chairwoman of the Small Business committee. It. Clay and i recognize you for five minutes. Mr. Chairman. [inaudible]. I am concerned of covid19 house infecting our nation. [inaudible]. On businesses distractions. I would just like to ask you. [silence]. Hang on a moment. Mdo you think that if we had program where we are disclosing here today. [inaudible]. And better prepared to less dad an economic downturn. Absolutely. It would be a game changer. For me and countless others. In ourommunity and around the couny, absolutely. Thank you. Because of the covid19 pandemic. [inaudible]. Instead, your conversatio has proposed. [inaudible]. Can you explain why of this destruction is uninsurable and of race and how the business coinues this program and how it wouldork. Thank you sure. Thank you congresswoman. As i have saidn. Reviously but i think its an end insurable risk certainlyy for small and medium side ensures. Where you would have millions of claims all at the same time throughout the entire country. It is just something i would not be an insurable risk for us. And i dont thinkuite frankly for most companies. But ian think that the cpp thate have proposed would be a program that would be have the paramedic trigger where because it is a federal program, it wou be subsidized by the federal government. That would be premiums that would be paid b but they would e affordab for Small Businesses, for nonprofits throughouthe country. It would be delivered through thegency network that is currently outhere and highl regulated by thetate. Kuhlmann and people would be le to buy and purche up to 80 percent of their los revenue for up to 90 days. And i i think it would be ery good. Thanknk you. [inaudible]. Private funding solutions. At first howow would you respond to what he just said in second, can you explain why theres that belief that if right consensus has been created, that the insurancean companies deprivatin of function. [inaudible]. Thank you very much for the question and i recognized its complex and its a unique at risk thing. Weve talked about the lack of diversification. We have any clients just like this other business who are suffering and under great distress at the moment. And they need us to tackle hard at the moment which is why we are here. I fundamentally believe in the social benefits of insurance. We would be able to if we restructure the program in the right way, invest in new technologies that are collecting data. Ld to build models and new ways of working. S right now im in my office in new york city in midtown manhattan. My experience coming to work today wass very different than y experience was on march 12. So we need to begin to take the steps in the hard infrastructure Business Card for the next pandemic. Thank you. Thank you so much. It. Clay and now i recognize the gentleman from florida. For five minutes or recognize you. Thank you very much. For holding this meeting today. I appreciate the well intended efforts of the sponsor to help Small Businesses. But im afraid essentially what we have here is a proposal for another Government Program that will try to do with the market while doing its own without subsidy. If you have to underwrite a Government Program to ensure business losses and do so that premiums they cannot possibly cover the payouts for such loss. And from a policy point of view is there any economic justification to subsidize the in sharons interruption due to the pandemic. Not from a financial crisis such as the one we had in 2008. I would be a a difficult distinction toin make. I can see in both cases why theres a role for government. Whether there is a need to create an Insurance Program and whether the Insurance Program suspends this money, particularly when as we mentioned earlier, only minority group, if you dont have a Business Interruption policy. If you do not own your property, you often will not have a Business Interruption policy. When you would not possibly benefit from this program. 50 billion could be spent better and directing aiding business. I think likely. I essentially think lets get to that. Lets get through the pandemic firste and provide help we need today and then we canet to the point we can ask that question. Thank you for the very complete and concise comments hundred and we hear aboutlaws thats moded after the terrorism t Insurance Program. Ive voted for this lastear since it fills a Critical Role the terrorism Insurance Market. But in this case, there is no existi market for pandemic insurance. That we had before the creatio of trio. It isbvious to me that we can afford something thats uninsurable like a pandemic risk into a terrorism model. And i think that this simply wont work. To lower lead participation due to the costsow that come to a list base system. Can you elaborate on this little bit. Kuhlmann absolutely. I think the congressman, that is exactly the point that we would make is that i think trying to either force coverage under companies or even if you make it voluntary, you have not a great takeup of Insurance Companies and anybody would be unaffordable and must take up among ensures themselves. I think thatin it would then become even more expensive with siless participation. I thank you. Weave various models dealing th rare risks now. For example, the National Insurance progr. Was a heavily subsidized program. The entireange of programs under disaster reliefhe fund. For rare events like floods and hurricanes earthquakes. In the government is this case insurable lt resort so to speak. Rather than creating an Insurance Program tt is designed by them and has associated hazard, we could along with the costsharing, wouldnt that be just as effective as subsiding Insurance Programs like trio. Also achieve a fema program that its addressing therayer and concurrent pandemic. Ur thoughts and that place. Is a good argument to be made that the pandemic is more like a public catastrophe than it is like you know an economic program. So some versions of the ppe, i know considered. At least all responded to sort of the public closure it like that piece of it ran a Public Health authority than orders closures, that is a public response ability. Its like that. Reimbursing people, makes good economic sense. [inaudible]. [inaudible]. ]. The gentlemans time has expired. Clay and because of the large list of members who are waiting, going have to ask you to not ask that question. Will you yield back. Certainly. Thank you. We will not go to the gentleman from missouri. You are recognized for five minutes. Thank you mr. Chairman. Thank you forveryone here. It is extremely important that we deal with ts issue. And lets focus on that i want to focus on is that i understand the varyingrograms proposals. It involves fundamental risk by private insurers from different interruption insance is for the businesses. I would like to eage the panel on this issue. And specifically, about the tolerance of private sector which mes sense for the intervening. So i would like for the witnesses if you want to discuss the broad tolerance of the Insurance Market under various adverse situations. Any oer independent effectively evaluating this question. Nso, when could we expect some data. R. [inaudible]. Ny of the panelists colleagues. Summa congressman, im not aware of any of that party to. [inaudible]. I would imagine its currently in transition per unit and we will see i do think that it would be wise to direct this to examine the question of availability coverage for interruptions but of the coverages. Business interruptions is not the only things that have been hit by the pandemic. Workers cops, Different Things have been looked at in him as well. [inaudible]. Its an extremely Important Program as far as i know, we dont have the data. I do believe that some of the other witnesses might be able to speak to that. Yes please if anybody can speak to that. Congress one congressman this hundred congressman. Actually we been designing our hoprogram and we have data for r own company obviously more looking to do is create a program that insurance can have some skin in the game here. But with guardrails produce a reallyai are program is seen frm a Small Business standpoint is to limit the exposure by the insurance carriers market share so we have a finite exposure. And then charge actuarial sound rates to those carriers only from their ensures portion so that is affordable for those Small Businesses. [inaudible]. Thank you for much. The department of. [inaudible]. I will ask them to work in coordination with industry and relevant stakeholders in providing pandemic insurance landscape and if any efforts are underway for the worst possible shortcomings. And i think, from the United States congress, this important issue. Eleven waiting to have data by everyoneg and that they intend and understand the parameters and right now, is a big deal. We would be voting in ignorance. We have no data if we were voting today we would be voting in ignorance. And i just dont think there was an issue likehi this, as it is, that we would wade into the water. With this presentedze data. And right off on this. You can tell me that im off on this is all right brightest. I think you are absolutely right congressman. Are there any other witnesses read so what does the silence mean. I think we would support you getting that information certainly. And i believe that the naic is also looking at trying to get data. So we support getting any data that we can. To review that. Thank you commerce been. Okay thank you and i yelled back. It. [inaudible]. Thank you. We will now go to the gentleman from new york. And i recognize you for five minutes. Thank you to chairman claim Ranking Members for holding his hearing today. I think the witnesses for being here. I represent new yorks first Congressional District which was one of the areas first and hardest hit by covid19. Long island nurse are tough. And have found ways to adapt to this pandemic. Businesses in my district are facing difficult decisions as we reached the colder months in new york. Restaurants, gyms and other Small Businesses are once again facing increased restrictions on how and when they can operate. Congress today did a great job coming together, not as republicans or democrats. But americans would pass the cares act which enacted the Paycheck Protection Program to provide liquidity for Small Businesses. It is finally Congress Come together again and ask for another round of ppe Funding Party jail businesses whether any government place restrictions parties also important to think about ways to have liquidity measures to be ready in place to assist Small Businesses with any potential future pandemics. I am grateful representative maloney, fellow new yorker would reauthorize this as started an importantbo conversation about w to be more proactive for future pandemics. However, dig a little deeper into whether insurance product makes the most sense arthur other potential solutions that would provide liquidity more substantially for the long island Small Businesses. In one thing that we learn this crisis is thehe importance of getting passedd quickly, the Small Businesses that are forced to shut down for no fault of their own. Can you talk a little bit about the difficulties of using the Business Interruption insurance product and the claims processed during a pandemic. Up slowly and thank you. Yes. Using a claims based process, would, he would have to have a specialized in adjusters who are handling these claims. And its almost a form of Forensic Accounting that is necessary to be able to evaluate the claims. And even doing that as efficiently and quickly as possible is still going to be not as timely as its going to be needed in a situation like a pandemic. It is also very expensive which will add to the premiums. Is very more efficient way to provide liquidity quickly to businesses that is not Business Interruption insurance. While certainly. We feel that the bcp people would do away with the trigger that would be able to almost immediately get funds into the hands of the policyholders. In that regard. Missus melinda, businesses interruption insurance is a product that can be triggered by physical damage to property. However there all specialized things like production insurance or cancellation insurance that are critical for financing Film Productions sporting events and other live events. Difficult for the federal government to play to help these markets regain the Insurance Coverage. Thank you congressman. It really the proposal that we have put forth his meaning to address main street america buta certainly, we think weve created a framework that was weve got all of the elements combined together, to include picture types of coverage like we mentioned here today. After 911, construction holiday new york city becauseec lenders do not want to extend credit that protecting the underlying collateral. And for terrorist attack, congress correctly refunded so that lending and financing for near citys recovery would be strong. Any of our nations lenders have stepped up and provided for parents to help businesses do not have the cash flow to meet scheduled debt plant payments but this is unsustainable in the long term. In the proactive solution would be for mobile. Whether or not insurance product is the best method, do you perceive Market Forces leading to a necessity to create proactive solution to provide the quiddity and Small Businesses. During epidemic so that these loans are safer. It is possible. [inaudible]. In the case of terrorism, the Insurance Market coverage that is previously, the introduced exclusions that were not there before. Thats of the situation facing here. No business or very few businesses has prepared for pandemic. And before covid19, we been providing. [inaudible]. I dont imagine lenders are going to ask for insurance but does not exist. And they are not going to say there is no market. [inaudible]. Thank you they evaporated. Athis time, want to recognize. Clay i was recognize the chairwoman of the subcommittee, chairwoman from ohio. Sleep. Clay are y tre. If not, i would go fully will come back to her regina recognize the gentleman from texas. In the subcommittee of investigations. Mr. Out green. Mr. Een, either. Thank you. I think the Ranking Members in the chair of the committee. Ms. Cantrell, your testimony was quite moving. I recorded one place where you indicated that you were experiencing the darkest days of yourg life. And that tells me a lot of things. If i multiply this by all of those who a are in similar situations, thats what a pain obviously. And for me as i review do this, its about thend individual businesses. Have a statement from the staff indicating that just for the businesses over 100 employees during this pandemic, and spring as much as 431 billion per month. This is really about timing. And Small Businesses and the economy. [inaudible]. Part in it i would like to see a solution if at all possible. How the income to me how it impacts everybody, not just individual business. So i would like to see a solution. And im to work this out. Lut ms. Cantrell i do want to ask you about something related to theut policies in general. Review of the opinion enjoyed coverage for the pandemic of the time you were experiencing these dark darkest days in your life. Yes. Thank you very much for your question. And yes when i had been paying into insurance, i was covered for all situations. I never thought of any things that im sure that Insurance Companies think of the isa Business Owner would not think of. I guess that was one of them. But i certainly absolutely thought i was covered. In the main topic with all my colleagues, the receipt daily months is these darker times. We are still in them. It was about power going to pay the employees payroll protection, and getting that insurance as well. And any of us talk about how we live with for years and it will not help us now. We been paying into it for years. Your testimony really sparked this interest. Ive spoken with the Staff Members as well. Since you made that cment. Then. [inaudible]. Would be beneficial to you maam to have had sense of closure. It was clear and concise that yo would know that she would be fi. Do you think that had you known that this may have been difficult for you. It would have been something that you have an expectation otherwise four. For example, you wouldve thoughthat you would have coverage that you didt out. You wldve had than expectations. Becausem sure that was part of those are for you when you find. Wouldv this closure it was helped y to some extent. Perhaps that you need to look elsewher for other insance. For that kind of coverage. But if this helped you. Understand what youre saying. Hhindsight is 2020. Ii certainly weather is my insurance or there are so any things that the pandemic is open up about where i need to ask about things Going Forward. I am hoping that the government helps with some things. Limited helped. I wouldnt have known to ask for it. I think there was so much uncertainty, theres still so much uncertainty. In such hope that things would be. Forgive me for interrupting of m time is limited to. What im trying to ask his would be beneficial to work with som sort of disclosure so that you will feel like over these any yearyou you paid. That somethingth y were thinking that you purchased. I think this wouldve been great. Think so any Business People are trying to figure out what is and what is not covered departed and checked my Insurance Company. Theyre saying. Thank you. I read my policy once. Thank you so much mr. Rain. Now i would like to go to the gentleman to the rep. You are recognized for five minutes. [inaudible]. Thank you for convening todays hearing and thank you to the Ranking Member sprayed not so wanted to thank the witnesses who are appearing virtually today. Ms. Cantrell, you could. Youre still so on. It. Okay. I want to ask with mr. Congressman greene, said. I found it compelling i think everyone that it compelling i would probably all have constituents in our districts and referred the same or similar stories to. My question, following up on what he was asking you. If it was in existence, would you have the coverage. Or the Business Continuity Protection Program was in existence. Yet to litigate your claim. One of the be to your business. Im sorry. If i took legal action against my Insurance Company. If the coverage did in fact exist which would litigate it. It will be the effective business. Honestly, i dont have it to take on an Insurance Company. He made some point about if we dont try to work things out, with the Insurance Companies then my coverage would cease as well. So never occurred to me. Its just not in my mindset pregnant and didnt really think that it was going to work in my favor. Singh question. What he did have to litigate the state six months. As you claim paid. With with the effect be to your business. Knew is coming, i thought that way with the ppe. And that was something that could be very helpful and supportive and keep us going. I cant speak for others but i think that would be, knowing something was coming, relief would be coming, that would be helpful. So if you knew that it would take 12 months free plan to be paid, it would have a detrimental effect on your business. De that. When youent is really high and Health Insurance and payroll costs of thomas long te. I guess my point is you wld really need that claim to be pa then a fairlyuick manner in order to be helpful to your business correct. Absolutely. Thank you very much. Then i could, the way you look, theay it is drafted now, i ther any thought for policyholder if it did exist to receiv payment had their cla been paid and then atome pot, and relatively shortterm future. Laid off or laid off all of their employees. That would not be unusual for unit you could have t contract, specifically the ensuring payroll. So thats going to depend o the contract and that between the and chart and the insured. And the government is not involved inhe process. D from what i see, they dont propose anything like that. If you did exist in the way that is drafted now. The claim was paid, and the employees were laid off, what with the effect be to the economy. It. Generally speaking, the things we care about are these relationships between employers and employees in the businesses and customers. The whole goal of the ppe was sort of to put all of these businesses into like an induced coma. So that we could tackle the virus and then bring them back in, everything comes back to normal. And in any cases come back to normal. But how that was structured. Thank you so a good structure insurance is not quite structured the same way. If it was created, can you talk about what the challenges would be establishing a permanent federal Program Designed to affect pandemic related losses. Pandemic real losses, will the true has sort of the certifications requirements from treasury. The Public Health with his local matter the most part. This determining businesses that cross drew different jurisdictions. Some differences might be in the Public Health sector. Thats going to take quite a bit of work. Thank you. Ill yield about my time. Thank you mr. Chairman. Clay thank you. I want to know go to the gentleman was chair on the other side of the committee as well is he brought this issue to a sub committees attention. My friend. And you recognized for five minutes. Thank you, thank you so much. I got to express how much i enjoyedorking with you for these years number sad tha you not returning party no onehank you for the syrian your decades of work and health and hud have people. I also think all of her pals who are the ranking mber. I wouldin like to talk about the ceo who incidentally was the only company tt insured new york without along with lloyds of london during the time. [inaudible]. Willecognize the pandemics are unique inan the econoc and the effects can be devastating. A broad consensus has emerged. And by research from yr company, and the proposals like the pandemic risk is insurable with an appropriate federal stop. The first want to thank marsh for all the research that you provided on this issue. And how we can make it available to all of us but i would like to ask you, can you explain why any federal program must include the federal back and if you could talk about being able to ensure pandemic risk, number of panelists have said they believe in the big risk is totally uninsurable. Your comments on that. Again thank you for your research we look forward to hearing from you. Thank you my connection is for. So i didnt hear some of driver and haden prior things. From the committee. So my apologies. But i can hear you clearly and thank you again for your leadership. Again pandemics a global by nature. They allo they lack diversifica. So unlike other risks, diversification is fundamental part of the insurance of Economic Risks are too severe. The capacity of the ensures to ultimately bear. And any insurers havear come forward with had very constructive dialogues and of course ms. Mclaughlin on the panel here today, being an important voice. And so any believe that the industry is a big role to play. I dont also cement that with all due respect, shutting down businesses are putting businesses in a coma, is not an ideal future space. It will be looking to ultimately change the outcome of the next pandemic. Okay. [silence]. [silence]. Okay, i gotta tell you. Can you hear me. I cannot hear anything now. Yes we can hear you. All right was not able to ar his response so im going to ask to get that response in writing. The question. I know my time is almost up. On asked ms. Mclaughlin. Requiring the insurer to share the risk with the federal vernment. The ceo has said that he believeshe industry does have the wherewithal to take risk share. [inaudible]. And he said it was a mistake that they could not ensure this risk it all and other leaders have come out and said they support it. Can you explain why risk sharing is possible and necessary for any federal program. [inaudible]. Thank you congresswoman and thank you for your leadership on this as well. Jack is very important for the byustry to participate playing a role because of the imageries of knowledge and experience and help drive better behaviors. We really feel the Industries Need to have some skin in the game here. [inaudible]. Our involvement with the public and private partnership with the federal government will lead to a better understanding of pandemic risk for unit and improved Risk Mitigation. And preparedness. A solution that commits Insurance Industries capital also provides an opportunity for increased risk sharing over time. As directed secondary markets develop thus helping reduce the governments financial burden in the future. Thank you so much. [inaudible]. And thank you forhe work of the Small Businesses. How has this risk or has it improved your businesses ability to survive a pandemic. Than you so much guess her in every other stre team, has money for rent sign on it. So me and so any others would have souch hope. And financialtability for the future. Thank you i just want to say the Small Businesses across the country have closed their doors. Nglike the decisions with the American Society associations letter supported by bill. And canceled theo annual event the provided funding. And they event cancellation insurance. [inaudible]. As we said earlier, this was includedn my bill to cover these losses. And just want to correct speed 19. Th is just a marker. This is just araft shall we say to be improved upon. It is not the endgame. Anything of a point of reference to bld on. Im open to all suggestions. Youre very welcome. And we thank you for that perspective. That was appreciated. And the gentleman from tennessee. You are recognized foror five minutes. Unmute or pause. Mr. Rose. Can you hear us. There trying to get this on here. We will see. I tell you what. We will come back to him. Read their. Im sorry, took me a little while to unmute but im unmute it down. Soon. Clay there are still some difficulties. Uptight you want. We will have to come back to you. And i will go to the next person. I t recognize you for five minus and we will come back. Can you hear me. Aspirated and that we can hear you. Go ahead it. Okay, sorry i was unneeded but for some reason it must have taken. Thank you so much in the Ranking Members for holding this important hearing. I know we have been trying to hold the steering since june. Some glad we can finally discuss this important issue here today. The covid19 pandemic has devastated businesses nationwide. The government mandated shut down, led to massive layoffs and closures. S programs like this Paycheck Protection Program made it so the businesses across the country including in my home state to keep the doors open. And their employees on the payroll. This program was critical because a nearly all instances the financial losses is that a businesses face were not covered by insurance as we all know. And as we begin to consider legislation to combat this issue in the future, believe any legislation this Committee Approves must have a bipartisan consensus. It should include input from all stakeholders and require voluntary participation. Legislation attached to this hearing today, failed to pass that test but i do appreciate both the chairman and visibility for recognizing this bill is the starting pointou. And being willing to work across the aisle for a solution. There are any alternative solutions that both their advantages and disadvantages. And are worthy of consideration as we seek bipartisan consensus. And i look forward to furthering that discussion today. The risk act would require participations ofof risk coverage as part of te policy. Setting aside whether it would even work this structure could lead to incredibly high cost of coverage. What would happen if they largely declined to participate in the program. And as of the first of the question. I dont believe it actually requires to make the offer but they have the option to participate in the program. I dont imagine any traditional property and casualty insurers are interested in participating rated the administrative costs would be. Large. Not much of their own capital that would be contributed to it. Percent. But if the program is exhausted, ift the 50 billion is exhauste, given the size of these, they would be on for money over that cap. It is unclear how that would work out. And i think it largely be of interest to be the specialty operators. The Risk Retention groups that would largely serve individual policy owners, harsh companies and some of the government and so forth. This will be see entry as well. Good harsh and of it. And ultimately that would help. What would happen to the insunce and didnt choose to participate in t program, make coverage essentially unaffordable for most Small Businesses. Well given the cost of the administrating it, it would probably be. Expensive that even without the insurers on the underwriting side. It is difficult to know what this would look like if network riskbased, you would expect businesses that have Indoor Dining and those sorts of things, persontoperson interactions, that would be have more expensive coverage that would probably not optimize business, your small that would be quite a bit. And you what is you did before this pandemic, its a risk that usually not going to happen except once i a hundred years. So you point out that the general difficulties of using insurance as a tool for spreading the risk in a panmic event, several of the proposals discussed in the hearingoday could free up a couple of those including been following the insurance model. Would you explain to the committee by insurance model would not be an efficient and effective way to get aid to businesses. The first part, as i mentioned Business Interruptions is only about one third of this. So that means most businesses would not be affected by it in the other side of it is that that lot ofll the loss is not an Insurance Claim. Most of the lockdowns in this country, listen september. They thought this was normal. Obviously it wasnt. It wasnt the shut down the cause the loss, was the pandemic. Others no Insurance Claims for businesses, but that type of insurance. Okay thank you. I think that my time is expired. I think what weve learned today is that this hearing is an important first step to solving this complicated issue and i look forward to working with my colleagues on both sides of the aisle to find a solution i yelled back. Iethank you. Clay i couldnt agree with you more. I think i saw the gentlewoman of ohio. Are you still on. [silence]. Clay apparently she is not there. So we will recognize the gentleman from washington state. [inaudible]. Thank you m chairman. It will take as much on. Actually dont have auestion. The couple of quick comments i would like to mixer. The first of which ishe panel so i think the panelists. Very much is a profoundly interesting and important conversation. And of course focused on approaches to deal with what we are experiencing right now. But it does serve as an portunity to underscoreow the severity and the circumstances we are in. And i dont think it can be experated or repeated too often. Erican families and businesses are hurting. In an unprecedented scale. The fact is that what we have done in the past inhe form of ppe and employment extensions, these have run out. And binesses as my father used to say, their core and there on the break. Some on bankruptcie in upon this congress to act to figure out a way to get to yes especially as we head into the peak of this frightening strike and the spread of covid19 even among our colleagues, we have got to figure out a way to act. Thus the comment that i want to makeke an appoied personal privileges to express you mr. Chairman. How much ie enjoyed and appreciated serving withou. I wish you allhe best Going Forward see. It cannot exaggerate my gratitude for the collaboration weve experienced over eight years especially of your leadership on housing issues. And frankly, your friendship. I wish you godspeed and without sir, i yelled back. Clay while thank you so much. You areo kin and now i want toecognize the gentleman from wisconsin. You are recognized. Thank you very much and thank you for having todays hearing. Going to die in a couple specific questions. I will direct them at you mr. Lehman if i can find one of the things that we havent really had here, in this discussion is historically Insurance Markets are regulated at the state level. The h regulators are really required and relied on to make sure that the insurance policies are solvent. I kind of thing back toward sars. With some of these pandemics came online. People became concerned. We have 50 states. Business to your knowledge, that all 50 states have allowed exclusions for pandemics and policies maintain solvency. Y. Yes. The exclusion for the viral exclusion, relating to sars, was a Standard Organization for a lot of lg policy language. Made 50 different state regulators. All 50 across the country reached the same conclusions here. So then and what we are looking at is what would be the demand for this. We had a lot of conversations comparing them to under tree with 911. With a lot of confidence that are coming online, demanding terrorism this coverage. Marcus is not providing that. Congress is called to act to address a real market demand. To your knowledge is there a market demand by bankm loan covenants or other demands that is driving us forward as it would relate to providing this type of pandemic coverage of the naonal level. It. I have heard antidotal chatter thathis may be something that lenders a looking at. It butrs i kw of novidence that is a common requirement. It would seem very unlikely for banks to ruire something to decide exi. It wld make the loans. It. But int a sense, the didnt real. We saw the market kind of glum up if you will for a lack of a better phrase. Following 911 weather was catastrophic catastrophic loss. Congress was called to act because there was a a hick up fr lack of a better phrase as it related to providing liquidity in particular into the Real Estate Industries relates to tree up but to your knowledge and not really seen them play out in the financial side as it relates to pandemic insurance. Does it gets. One thing that is diffent is the tria and following 911 existing terrorism insurance, disappeared. So the lenders had the security be for the losses. This is the caseere. We didnt have pandemic coverage before covid19 we dont have it now. And following sars really was totally probably card out it explicly any ofhese programs. Can ask you to comment. I think one thing that we havent dove into as far as i would like, the triggering events that would be required would be really shift in any ways the traditional Insurance Coverage being a actual occurrence of an event to triggering event that would requir possibly inactive congress. And of state government. It seems like that would really set up a potential either moral hazard of political hazard, you can rephrase it if you want to. Can envision t pressure would be placed on the decisio maker in a political environment versus a tornado catastrophically comes through town. It would her rights. This would be a triggering event. Ng do you have a comment on are there other instances that you can think of for a government actor or a political actor would control a triggering event and how that is played out as it relates to potential moral hazards. So the only real comparison is tria for the treasury secretary has to certify aiden event. But weve not had one rated weve not had terrorist events does been certified within treasury secretary. And then this, through the various proposals, the ppe and so forth. They all kind of considered different stakeholders making those decisions and obviously that can be complicated and certainly c Public Officials wil have pressure. A short. But obviously. Trump have that for people on this too any are. Knowledgeable about how that trigger would work for you dont see other instances what i would consider treat free Market Private insurance triggered by Political Action rather than the event. Usually events are divine. And you dont need governmen to tell you that. I yelled back. I think you. Thank you. Clay now we will go to that gentleman from florida. And hopefully we can turn your camera on. Are you there. It. Yes. How you doing was determinednd can you hear me. Clay es, i can see you. It you have five minutes. Sweet to see you want to thank you so much for this hearing. It is a really important hearing. Because it affects people and businesses all over the country. My question is, this article in the Philadelphia Business in general. Over 700 lawsuits brought by policy owners against Insurance Companies that have businesses interruptions coverage. The losses sustained as a result of the pandemic. Insurers almost unanimously denied ever claim. Across the country by taking a position that covid19 does not constitute a direct lot physical loss. Of damage. The coverage that because of the virus, some physically alter the tangible destroyed by fire damage or any other damage like that. So i guess can you please share throughout the policy perspective side of the about this issue. Because this is a. Interesting issue. I really need to know how to kind of will what you think about this. Are you asking about the litigation part of it. The litigation part of it and how it affects is. The reason why am asking is because the Health Insuranceen area, insurance looks at it now as everybody has a preexisting condition based on the virus and so forth. So how come theres so much litigation involved. The people who are filing insurers are saying that we are denying all of these because it does not also yes. Understand. As i mentioned earli, i didnt file any legal action. Live weve not sustain any Property Damage but we work shut down by t governors orders. Rlly nothing i could do. I lkily had a website andhat was how w were able to even function and make anyoney at all. So iind it may be the language in this what were talng about today. But the language is not there to support the Small Businesses. So i i didnt take any legal action. But i seethers have. Is anyone else on the panel likely to respond. [inaudible]. I cannot hear anythg. Is that john. [inaudible]. Ilence]. Ay be necessary for pandemic Risk Insuranceill be widely available to u. S. Residents. Spin back and think the entire panel and graze the private market alone is not going to cover a risk like the Global Pandemic. I think that is one thing we all agree with. It is too correlated a risk, you are not going to have just a private solution. The government needs to do something. What that something is, there is a Government Role stomach did anyone else capture. [inaudible] congressman can hear me now . Yes we can hear you. Apologies. Look, think weve been working on behalf of more than 10,000 of our policyholders to get their claims paid in many cases it is excluded which is why we are here print we need aed program that covers this risk Going Forward. But he too structured in a way that encourages participation. It subsidized by the government its got a quick and simple trigger to get liquidity into the system. Keeps the business live and we need to create the right incentives and putting in a, i think should set our sights higher than that select the governor action the gentleman s time has expired. Now we would go to the gentleman from texas, you are recognized for five minutes. Select thank you chairman clay. First i just want to say what an honor and has been to work with you during my first termer in Congress Pretty will be missed. I appreciate the time weve had together. Thank you. Also chairman clay without objection i like to insert the bipartisan bill 8r761 Small Business comeback act along with the list of supporters, the legislations will complement the carriers act and the patient Protection Program by simplified the application process and reducing restrictions and provide a continued to represent businesses most impacted by covid19 which are Small Businesses. Business operating in underserved areas. Believe this legislation is to address future pandemic spread i also once a witness at the National Retail. [inaudible] theres legislation as well. Select mr. Good and you went that is part of the hearing record, is that correct . That is correctud chairman. Without objection and you may proceed. Mr. Lehman i went to ask you to comments, it seems that the contest of insurance is perhaps overlooked by some. That principle the basic principle that it is designed to be covering the losses of the few paid for by the many. And in this case a Global Pandemic or a National Pandemic is a major loss of everyone, paid for by everyone. So i would like for you to touch on that. I also wantr you to comments on this idea of a mandate for insurers. Some have suggested it might help to solve the issue we are talking about today. If we mandate that insurers offer this coverage in the next, would that work . What are the unintended consequences to the market as well. I believe i put in my written statements the mine if half the Global Economy shuts down, the Insurance Industry alone cannot carry the other half on its back up. Therell never be be a scenario where that is possible. Thate is why an event of this decide is the correlation is not possible for the Insurance Industry to write on its own from the question of a mandate the conservancy upside is its included in every policy. Then it missed control not have to know, right . It is just automatic. So im covered for that. The question is if you add the cost with the business feel the interruption because two thirds of the businesses dont. That is an open question. If you reduce Business Interruption that youre not mississauga in the outcome you want. Thank you. Mr. Yle, i have heard from brokers around the country that the availability of pandemic related insurance hasok disappead. Some have indicated to me that congress should wait until after the crisi is over before contemplating a program to address future occurrences. In the case of tree at the incidents were catastrophic and only affected ctain areas. Ed but it was a onetime incident. The very next day we were talking about what do we do because the attk had happened. In this case the pandemic is still ongng. Or potentially not eve to the worst of it, to have any thoughts and whether coness should wait until after this is complete before we tal about a longTerm Solution om the insurance perspective . Select thank youut congressman. The market for pandemic insurance was limited prior to covid. Its more limited today. Our clients are facing these risks to deal with them at thehe moment. As i mentioned earlier in my prepared remarks, i think it is fundamental and critical to the economic recovery that we act and act quickly. We should be thoughtful of course and as we have all talked about what congressman maloney has put forth his ace perfect starting place for conversation. But he also think we cant wait we need to move soon. Thank you, mr. Chairman yield back. Thank you gentlemen feared testimony. At this point will go to the from california has also the chairwoman for the dual committee, you are recognized for five minutes. Select thank you so very much mr. Chairman. I would request a point of personal privilege. Please proceed. Thank you. [inaudible] [inaudible] i have the opportunity in this committee. [inaudible] i like to thank you today that we will miss you. Well miss you, your work. [inaudible] the issues of this committee particular i know. [inaudible] many members must know audio difficulties] it is a huge family. We love you, we respect you,. [inaudible] thank you. Specs thank you so much madam chair and cousin. Yet for five minutes. Now they know they will not have to hold that against you. [laughter] i hope not. [laughter] thank you, thank you. I will turn out to a question for ms. Mclaughlin is she in the room . Chairwoman yes. Thank you. The largest Industry Trade groups have argued that pandemic simply cannot be insured against. Their proposed solution puts all ofan the responsibility and ensure against the risk ofs a pandemic on the federal government. But not everyone within the Insurance Industry agrees cases of covid19 were first spiking in the spring, this interrupts losses the businesses were escalated at over 1 trillion each month. And so i would like to ask you, do you think the federal government should be entirely on the hook for these costs . What you think . Select i dont think the federal government should be entirely on the hook. I think that the Insurance Industry should play a role in this as well. But because we need to protect our Balance Sheets need to make sure the role of the Insurance Industry has some guardrails. That is what the chubb program has presented part a finance on the exposure industry and as we learn about this over time i think that exposure or limit will grow. I went to thank you for your explanation and your concern. And the way that you describe the role that each played. Let me follow up. Ms. Cantrell, went to thank you. On the pandemic first broke out in your businesses was forced to shut down, what were the expenses that you are most urgent, the might have expected your insurance policy togh cover . Yes, think is so much for the question but first about our rents, we are near exit its very high. Payroll costs, Health Insurance, our bills with all the financial obligations that were due from buying in the retail cycle. So all of those. So you are able to basically identify how governme and insurance complaint a role in you believe th trump proposal would accomplish tha . Im not that familr with the trump proposal. Im not that familiar. But do you think the insurae industry and government could or should play a role . Absolutely. Ou think the Insurance Industry should not b lefto try to bear the burden of the cost of covid19 or pandemic is that right . I think it should be shared with a backstop, yes. Already thank you very much. Mr. Chairman oneill back balance of my time. The chairwoman yields back. And at this time we go to the gentleman from indiana, you are recognized. Think is so much sorry really appreciate your service. Certainly one should put aro nail in the coffin that was forcing to pay out claims for which ty did not collect premiums retroactively this is not even an idea the rewriting of tens of thousands of contract law said that is the free market economy for three or 40 years the basic principles addition to that in every state regulator approves the exclusion of pandemic insurance is a part of Business Interruption a insurance. That was approved by red and blue state regulators across the country. I tnk that has been lost in the conversation. I want t take my first question to mr. Colan. Andeally ask, we are using the wordnsurance a lot in this hearing in thi dialogue. But really, zooming out, i continuedo hear from industry from experts and from academicshat this is truly an uniurable risk for the industry. Can y elaborate on why this is an uninsurable risk briefly . Certainly congressman. Thank you for the questn. The very nature ofhe pandemic the fact that it is occurring all the same time for ts of millions of the same time all or the country is not somhing we can spread the risk around that something you can use the many that pay r the claims of the few. This of b everyone attempting to t to pay for everything at once. Oon i hear other members talk about how they want government involved to the icpublicprivate partnerip. Really what they mean by governnt involveme is one of two things. Number one trying to reduce the very high premiums the pandemic insurance would cost if it w in the private sector. Because they want tomprove updates to facility so they will be reducing premium spirit or the absorption of the contemporaneous losses that would occur. That is what i continued to hear people say by public involvement in this. The first is most disconrting. Because what i hr from all these members and gosh, this would improveconomic stability. We need more people to take th out to the risks are lowered. If moreeople are taking it out that means weve lowered the pmiums dramatically. Not reflecting the real unrlyingng risk that is being taken either by Insurance Companies or by the government because in and of itself as a standalone if it were insurable the cost to be very, very high is tha correct . That is absolutely correct. The affordability is very key. Thats why we believe it is a way y would have product to be much more affordable and about by Small Businesses and nonpfits all across the country. And the more people to buy into it ofle cours the cost of it will go down. Student rights. But as you sai the more people to buy into it the more concurrent loss are also gog to have. Which means you mean tt governments and Balance Sheet to step in. Uptake is very, very good you have a good problem of lot people getti paid out but a bad problem of a lot of people making those payments being taxpayers that continues to be a deep conce to hoosiers and americans alike. The second big thingng a wanted to touch onng is this notion that in the future, future congresses are going to say to amican businesses, you pay in this program, we are going to give you a recery. But your business nextoor that suffering mightily in this pandemic is not going to get paid o. I believe in cgress for years but i have borne witness to man times and we do not ke such a distinction. Nge inclinati to future congresses will be to pay everybody. Give everybody a recovery to helppur the economy along. And then n one go by that insurance quote unquote insurance nt round because they will recognize everybody got the same payment whether they paid into the program or not. Ra so i think this whole hearing is about a lot of bad ideas that are massed under good Economic Policy are mapped under insuran i but not tually either paid with that allele bk. Thank you. Not going to recognize my friend and neighbor to the north from iowa, cindy asked me for five minutes. Unmute for spray. Thank you chairman put it is so gd to see you. And really great to be here having this hearing on a really important topic right w. We all know tt our country ha been hit incredibly hard by this pandemic. Can yall hear me okay my echoing . You are echoing. Perhaps our technicians can help. Tried again. Lets try this again. Still echoing loudl. Can we come back to her . How does this sound . Still an echo. Mr. Gonzales of ohio. We will come back to cindy. You are recognized for five minutes. Expect thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you to everybody for participating in this hearing. Obviously a lot of thought has got into the various proposals. And i appreciate that. I dont be too negative i know they are sincerely trying to solve what is a very difficult problem. Want to associate myself with mr. Hollingsworth remarks also in full. Seems awful premature but ive heard im curious what mr. Doyle would say, does anybody believe this is an insurablebo risk . Congressman if i could go first with the art risks but the pandemic at the micro level to ensure the pandemic you can have a policys respect to the insurer would write. Ill be very quick and does could have a job as you could reflect my personal views. But again i would say we are in the middle it is very premature. Quite frankly arrogant to think we could right now sit here in the Workable Program that would insurance against future pandemics. Personally, i think we probably should do is navigate our way through this current pandemic. For all the programs we put in place works, what worked well, what didnt work well. What adjustments we make in future pandemics. And then we would then move forward from there. I know we are all trying our best year. But that would be my take. I thank you for the hearing. I recognize and i yield back. The gentleman from ohio and i want to go back to the gentleman from iowa, this asked me. Are you there . Okay she is not there now. We wont move on to mr. Timmons of south carolina. Mr. Timmons you are recognized for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman think of your Great Service to this committee into the house as a whole. Wish you the best in the future. We will all no doubt mr. Leadership. Thank you. We find ourselves in the midst of a disaster but make the mistake, the very same people who send us to congress to be their voice in these critical decisions. As a Small Business owner myself i feel the intense pain of many beloved local stores, restaurants in my district will not be opening anytime soon if they ever do reopen. He put stop rates on thin margins and rely on loyal comforters and many who are unwilling or unable to return to the way they are accustomed to shopping. This is not the Business Owners faults. From what i have heard today, any long Term Solution must work for all parts of the economy. And most importantly, must ultimately help those who are or sit closer businesses by m the government. On that note, mr. Coleman, would priya as proposed address the problems many of our current Business Owners arema facing . We believe the bc pp is a better model than they proposed. Mainly because you are back to the insurance model for handling those claims and the amount of time that it would take to actually adjust the claims versus bc pp which could get money directly in the hands of the needed Small Businesses. Thank you congressman. That priya you would agree would not necessarily help the Small Business owners that we are most focused on helping. Is that a fair statement . I believe part of that is the affordability of it. I think it will be much more affordable than the priya model. Which i think it just would not be affordable from the Small Businesses who operate on very thin margins. If priya had been the law last year, this anybody on this call went to estimate the cost to the federal government for its portion of these losses . Does anyone have guesstimates . Were talking trillions. Yes congressman. That is why we need the diversification issue to make this a private market wouldve sold this already. So this is why we need local support. Is certainly prescient my colleagues idea on paper but i dont believe this is a realistic solution. My colleagues have made solid points ensuring the risks posed by potential terrorist attacks versus the risks posed by Global Pandemic. They just cannot be more different. Terror attacks is not the and most devastating under typically confined relatively small geographic areas. They have a very clear beginning and end. Pandemics on thehe other are. Everywhere it once for an unknown amount of time. To think we officially copy and paste against terrorism against those insured by terrorism it just does not work. Furthermore, i believe the time to plan for the next 100 year pandemic is not in the middle of the current one. Small businesses are suffering due to government closures. Nothing we are discussing today will help ms. Cantrell or any of the other businesses in our districts interface and the prospects of closing right now. The cares act was very helpful, but is over seven months ago. Our in action in congress is quite frankly disgraceful. When the government put people out of work to no fault of their own it must step in and make those businesses and individuals whole. We have neglected our duty and must act immediately. Many businesses in my district were able to get ppp loans. That is something we all agree unpaid we need to make sure businesses that are still suffering that happy revenue loss are able to get the assistance. If we are going to shut them down we have an obligation, we have an obligation to make sure they get to this pandemic. I believe we can get the stanford i believe we need to get done quickly. I look forward to working with my colleagues to get through this pandemic. And finding a good policybased solution that will allow us to prepare for the next one. But that mr. Chairman i yield the balance of my time. Thank you. Thank you. And let me say if you have any relationship with the u. S. Editors, would you talk to them about giving back. With Speaker Pelosi mr. Chairman ivan pushing that as hd as i can. At the end of the day we need to deal people adversely affected by covid and not bill it states with the pension funds. We can find a way for im sure principe back and we as a congress have to believe we want to help the American People during this Global Health pandemic. Let m go on and lets try ms. Asked me what wartime. You are recognized for five minutes. Will how does this sound chairman . Must bed it sounds like you. [laughter] thank you so much for putting up with my technical difficulties. I never thought i would be saying that in the middle of a hearing. This is a credible important topic for Small Businesses across the country have been hit so hard in this pandemic. We could be looking at 40 to 50 of our restaurants closing in the next six months. That is just one example with covid uncontrollably getting worse across this country. So the starting point for what we are discussing here today is that businesses in my district and around the country found out in march that even if they were in the 30 to 40 of companies that had Business Interruption insurance, it likely did not cover pandemics. Mr. Doyle, none of the proposals we are discussing today would be retroactive and cover covid 19 losses. Is that correct . That is correct congresswoman. Thank you. Now i know the estimates for the losses were more than 400 billion with just the smallest businesses. I am wondering how much in losses do you think we might be talking about ensuring . You havent updated estimate for the losses so far this year . Conger summit i do not have an estimate of the losses for this year. Okay, okay. Mr. Leman do you . No i do n. Rh. So for a of the witnesses if this were just to be covered over all have a sense of what kind of pmiums will be talking abo relative to current insurance . Scen congresswoman, exce me what i am suggesting is that we develop a program that encourages participation needs to semi be subsidized by the government and u. S. Government Balance Sheet. Said the govnments ultimate holding the risk today. Whats missing today whether its the cares act or the of the social benefits of insurance. And we can mitigate the future impact of pandemics on our economy, if the private market, the government and our policy go together. I very much appreciate that. But have to be honest here, its hard for me to it evaluate proposals to cover future pandemics when no one knows with those premiums might be. That is important peace of what this looks like. Mr. Doyle and mr. Coolidge you have a percentage of businesses that may want pandemic coverage either with or without a federal subsidy . If you are including a federal subsidy and that, how large you estimate that subsidy to be . It is hard to say what is the ultimate takeup rate would be, congresswoman. Of course it would depend upon how we structured and ultimately price the program. But a government subsidy would be required. And we would need to figure out the modeling and the data behind that. Okay so no clear understanding right out this point on the kind of a premium and or the types of subsidies that would be necessary for that is my understanding. Were depends on the wrist the government going to backstop. This crisis of course has shown us firsthand how many of our businesses cannot go weeks without some sort of revenue coming in. Is another issue we have to address is how fast we get relief to the businesses that need it. We start looking at the ppp this spring in a few weeks can make getting into folks hands. I know firsthand is not always the quickest process that is without everyone making a claim the same time. Under any that we are considering how quickly would business be able to get the help they need during a pandemic i would take it answer from each one of you or anyone of you on this. s negative parametric trigger. If we set the right trigger we can get that claim paid quite quickly within weeks. Within weeks you sent . Yes. I think congresswoman under the d. C. Pp it would be immediate. You would not have a traditional claims process where you have an adjuster trying to do some Forensic Accounting on determining the amount of the claim. So i think under that bc pp it be nearly immediate. And congresswoman, under the Truck Program as well for looking it up parametric structure for Small Businesses that we can get the funds in the hands of the Small Businesses as qckly as possible. Okay, okay for that. Were forwardlooking want to ensure we have a solution that actually works for the businesses thateed i i want to make sure we dont rais costs for business so much that insuranceould be unaffordable. An s were coming out of a pandemic. Were also fighting a war and charging businesses for something they wont even use. So thank you s much for your answers to give me some clarity. Interment i yield back pay. Thank you so much ask me. I understand the Ranking Member from ohio to make a closing statement respect just want to point to personal privilege mr. Chairman. Please go ahead. Al be very brief. I think this hearing is another example of showing your leadership and what you have done to make congress better, to make america stronger, and to serve your constituents, mr. Chairman. And i for one and very proud to of worked you. And i want to say, good luck to your future in the future. We will all miss you very deeply. And your expertise, your hard work, your diligence and your caring nature, mr. Chairman. Thank you. You make our country better and to represent the best of us. Today is just another example is a great hearing today. Made a difference for america. God bless you in the future mr. Chairman. Thank you so much. Let me first say i like to thank our witnesses for their testimony today. Without objection all members will have five legislative days who wish to submit additional written. I asked our witnesses to please respond as promptly as you are able. Without objection all members will have five legislative days in which to exchange materials. For inclusion in the record. And i remind records to submit written records in the email provided to stafford without objection, i would like to submit a letter President Trump and also a letter to House Speaker leadership, those letters address pandemic Risk Insurance. And now in closing this hearing has certainly raised interesting or intriguing issues on how to protect businesses of all sizes during a Global Health pandemic. I want to thank chairman mullaney for bringing this issue to the forefront. And i am certain this will not be the last we hear of this issue. More than likely thisll be the last hearing our chair sup lamented to the house at the end of the exceed congress. Let me say that it has been an honor and privilege to serve in this robust body. And a distinction only experienced by some 11000 americans throughout our nations history. As chair waters mentioned, we are relatives. But to all of the members of this committee and this congres congress, i treat you all like we are family and hold you in my heart as such. I wish you all success in the 1h congress, and god bless you all. Thank you. With coronavus cases increasing across the country, use our website cspan. Org coronavirus to follow the trends. Track the spread with interactive maps, and watch updates on demand any time at cspan. Org coronavirus. The Trump Administration announced this week that it is cutting troops and afghanistan to 2500 by midjanuary. While tonight at eight eastern on cspan2 todays House Speaker Armed Services Committee Hearing on the effect of withdrawing u. S. Troops from afghanistan. Book tv o cspan2 has top nonfictionooks and authors every weekend. Coming up this weekend, sarday at 1 00 p. M. Eastern from the rent virtual book festival authors veronica chambers, and Sandra Garcia on the suffrage movement. Then, authors Bryan Purnell and Clarence Taylor on the history of civil rights in new york. And 7 25 p. M. Eastern, Adam Higginbotham and author of bitnet and chernyl the untold story of the greatest Nuclear Disaster on sunday at 1 00 p. M. Eastern. More from the brooklyn book festival is authors, Joanne Mcneil and Frank Pascual at the past and future of technology. On t potential effects the coronavirus will have on society. D at 9 00 p. M. Eastern on after words, political scientist and author deborah stone talks about her book counting. How we use numbers to decide what matters. She is interviewed by scientists and author kathie oneill. Watch book tvn