Transcripts For CSPAN2 Miller Center Discussion On Presidential Transitions 20240711

To provide statutory framework for the peaceful transfer of power. It has been updated several times since. We are going to discuss rising issues coming out of that in the current transition and transfer. It has been almost a week since most Major Networks designated joe biden as president elect. The biden team has been moving forward on a transition and selected a new white house chief of staff, have launched a Pandemic Task force, and soon will be announcing other white house and cabinet level positions. Theyve started conversations with foreign heads of state and a number of american political leaders. A small but growing number of senior Republican Leaders have acknowledged the outcome of the election, including former president bush, his chief of staff andy card, counselor karl rove, and a handful of republican senators. And yet, we still have not had a formal concession by President Trump. That may be a personal matter of his continuing to file legal claims in a number of states, but by not conceding, he has also held up a formal ascertain ascertain should ascertainment, sorry. Of when the beginning of transfer of power should begin. President trump and his administration not transferring knowledge and knowhow and technology and real estate to the incoming chief. Incoming team. How big a problem is this . How important is it that this happen now . When does it need to start . When should it start by law and what are the consequences of the delay . Those are some of the questions we will address today with a terrific panel. We are joined today by Michael Chertoff, who served as secretary of Homeland Security under president george w. Bush from 2005 to 2009. Before heading up dhs, mr. Chertoff served as a federal judge on the u. S. Court of appeals for the third circuit. Earlier during more than a decade as a federal prosecutor, he invested and prosecuted cases of political corruption, organized crime, corporate fraud, and terrorism, including the investigation of the 9 11 terrorist attacks. He is now cofounder and executive chairman of the chertoff group, a Risk Advisory Risk Management advisory service. Janet napolitano is professor of Public Policy at the Golden School of Public Policy at uc berkeley. She served as the 20th president of the university of california, the nations largest Public Research university. Prior to joining the university of california, professor napolitano served as secretary of Homeland Security from 2009 2 to 2013. Shes a former twoterm governor of arizona and former u. S. Attorney for arizona. In 2019, napolitano published how safe are we Public Security since 9 11. She earned her bs degree at Santa Clara University and her law degree from the university of virginia. Finally, Dave Marchick is a retired executive from the Carlyle Group who worked at the state department. He is serving in a volunteer role as director for the center of president ial transition and t the partnership for Public Service. He is also an adjunct at the tuck school of business at art must. He spent 12 years at the Carlyle Group where he served as managing director and global head of external affairs and led carlyles regulatory and Government Affairs communication and branding and sustainability efforts. We are delighted to have this terrific group. Let me start with this stalled gsa determination or the ascertainment. What is that and why does it matter . Let me start with dave since the center for president ial transitions plays a role in connecting transitions for a couple of cycles. Dave, give us a sense of what this ascertainment is and what are they trying to ascertain, and what happens when it happens . Dave thank you, bill and thank you to the Miller Center. Let me give a salute to Michael Chertoff, who i have known from the Holocaust Museum and also to secretary napolitano. I wish you were still president of the university of california because im on the board at ucsd , but more importantly, my daughter is at berkeley and i would like her to check in on how her studies are going. Maybe she still has that influence. Bill, you struggled with the word ascertainment because it is not supposed to be a word that is commonly known because the issue of ascertaining the winner of an election has never been controversial, never been politicized. There is a provision in the 1963 president ial transition act which gives the gsa administrator the responsibility of ascertaining the outcome of the election. There are many other Government Agencies that have similar responsibilities to act when there is a new president elect. The secret service on saturday morning significantly expanded their protection around president elect biden because he was going to be president elect biden. So that was not a politicized decision, the secret service just did that. Unfortunately, even the most noncontroversial ministerial acts in this world, in this town are being politicized today and this is one of them. The subject, the criteria is that basically the outcome is clear and the outcome is clear. All the networks have called the election, as you said in your piece from last sunday, four states would have to be turned over, the likelihood of a recount changing the outcome is almost zero. Even president bush stated in his own statement that the outcome is clear and so, we will get into this, but the gsa should make this ascertainment and then the biden team should be able to get access to all the support which we can talk about some more. Bill let me bring in mr. Cherto and miss napolitano into this conversation. Because i do think the first thing that should be on peoples mind in a peaceful transfer is who is watching the home front . Is there something in these two months that poses a threat to the American People and how is that being managed in this cap . Gap, and does the ascertainment hold the protection of thAmerican People up . Chertoff i can go first. I think there are two things creating risk from a security standpoint. First of all, having a transition that bins right away. Getting earances for the incoming team, giving president elecaccess to current intelligence, these are all part of the pross of preparing so that when the new ministration comes in, they can hit the ground running and not have to then figure out what the threats are and what the capabilities to respond are. We can talk a little later about how we did the handoff from the Bush Administration to the obama administtion because that was very much in the front of our minds and we workevery cooperatively across both the outgoing and incoming folks, to makeure we fully briefed the people coming in with president ama, how they had access to intelligence information and we even ran aexercise about a potential pandemic so theyould really get a feel for how things would work in the levers of government. There is another compounding problem. We are seeing a purge of security pernnel. We have seen t department of defense decapitate there is rumor about dhs hing people fired or being forced to resign and that exacerbates the problem because it means in this window of time when our foreign and domest adversaries could perceive weakness and opportunity, we are signaling are dropping our guard and that is a very risky thing to do and it holds the American People hostage. Secretary napolitano . Sec. Napolitano yeah, i dont have much to add. I was going to emphasize first the need to have a smooth handoff from a National Security perspective and not to have any kind of a gap. We are fortunate that the president elect has so much experience that even with this delay,e will be able to catch up quickly, but nonetheless, this is an unnecessary rk that President Trump is putting on the country. And secondly, michaels comment about the removal of department of defense personnel and their replacement by political loyalists, President Trump, two key personnel at the department of Homeland Security resigned yesterday according to the washington post. These are troublesome moves from key departments necessary to protect the security of the American People. So if you were to ask me whats the greatest risk factor confronting the United States today, i would say the greatest risk factor is actually President Trump. Bill i would like to pivot off that to start focusing a little bit on when we might get the ascertainment so the biden team can have access to intelligence and can start processing security clearances. Typically, as we saw in the last transfer to President Trump or, as secretary chertoff mentioned, the transition from bush to obama, the ascertainment happened relatively quickly. In 2004, it didnt happen right away. It only happened after the recount. So dave, im curious to get from you and to hear from secretary chertoff and napolitano what might trigger the ascertainment in the days ahead . Where are you looking and what are you seeing . Is it simply the mounting calls from Republican Leaders and legislators . Is there something that can happen in the counting of ballots and certification of the states . Dave its a little unclear to me what the trigger will be. E trigger should have been made last week when the outcome was clear. That is the stdard under the law. I do think there is a significant shifting of political opinion on this and perhaps that growing, owballing impact will have an imct. You are eing more and more republicans the senate and in the governors sayi we should get this going. In the last few days, you had governor dewine, governor hutchison, governor sununu these are not never trumpers. Obviouy, dewine comes from a state, secretary napolitano knows politics better than i will ever learn but he comes from a state trump has dominated and is not a never trumper. Obviously, in arkansas, trump has been very popular and having governor hutinson say what he said i think is very important. In the congress, i think you see growing concern from republican senators, particularly on the Armed Services and intelligence committees. I also think there is growing awareness of the nonSecurity Risks, which i tnk is greatest which i think michael anjanet articulated the security ris but to me, the most important thing in the world is the pandemic. The Trump Administration should get credit for developing something called operation warp speed, which is a joint hhs, dod effort to develop and distribute the vaccine. One would think every american would want the incoming biden team to have access and starting to coordinate with the people responsible for operation warp speeso that when the biden team takes office on january 20, they can move forward to get that vaccine in tharms of 300 million people. That is not a policy issue, that is a logistics issue and one would think that would make sense. I think there is a growing, snowballing effect because peoplere being educated, the risks of not ming forward and grow every day and i am hopeful this can move in the right direction very shortly. Bill im going to ask our team to put up a slide here developed by daves partnership for Public Service and to get secretary chertoff and napolitano i dont know if you knew this was coming but this is an assessment in year four of the Trump Administration of the various cabinet agencies and how many key positions have been filled. The darker turquoise line lists how many confirmed officials in key slots. There is a slightly lighter shade of turquoise which is how many have been nominated. We put in blue boxes the far assessment of the five key agencies if there is a National Security crisis and there is a sixth agency which is equally critical, but we highlighted it in red because in the current moment, it is so understaffed. I would like to get reflections from you, how important is it to fill these positions quickly, particularly when there is a crisis that is ongoing. How do some of these agencies Work Together in addressing the crisis or any other crisis that is out there . What does the next few months look like in terms of filling these positions . Sec. Chertoff ironically, the problem usually is in an whonistration are people are confirmed leave go on to their next job, so you often find vacancies in the last month or two. The irony here is the positions were never filled. So its not a question of people leaving. Its a question of people not arriving. We have seen particularly with Homeland Security is the actions of confirmed positions have made it very difficult for the agency to carry out its mission. Across a spectrum of issues. It made it difficult for the agency to deal with the pandemic and take a leadership role that was originally envisioned by the National Response framework and that both i occupied and janet occupied when we had the office. It has also created a feeling of creeping politicization as the white house staff has increasingly seen vacancies as an opportunity to micromanage the departments in the political interest of the president and that has created a trust deficit. Much of the story of this last administration and the next couple of months is a disdain for the workings of government and the efficient carrying out of government missions. Its almost as if it is a determination they want to wreck government and make it as hard as possible to do its job so they can say see, people in government are bad. The problem is that leaves a lot of people dead, as we have seen th the virus. Bill as the new team comes in, the importance of confirming people will the biden people just put peoe in acting positions to just get started and get away with it or is it important to go ba to the confirmation standard, particularly when there is a crisis going . Sec. Chertoff i would say this i believe the biden team will honor the traditional norm of getting people confirmed. That depends upon the senate cooperating. If you get a senate that blocks everything, that creates a different set of problems, but im hoping cooler heads in the Republican Party will cooperate with getting people confirmed in the normal course. I also need to be candid at some point, congress has to revisit the appointment vacancy process which was abused over the last four years and may need to be tightened up. Sec. Napolitano one example is when we had the transition from president bush to president obama, a number of us on the Security Side of t cabinet, theres a luncheon in statuary hall in the capital immediately after the inaugural ceremony and the senate went into session and they immediately confirmed a number of members of the obama cabinet, particularly those on the Security Side of the cabinet. So we were actually confirmed as we were watching the inaugural parade go by. That is how two branches of government can cooperate with each other and that is how you help effectuate a smooth transition of power. Bill between now and then, its a great segue to the importance of the confirmation process. What happens when someone gets confirmed and what happens between now and then . Dave this gets back to ascertainment because this cant go forward. Ron klain, who has been designated as chief of staff, he cannot get his final security clearance until he has been ascertainment. He can get an inrim but he cannot get a final. What happens is the president elect will start naming his team, presumably in the next week, typically it is done in waves. They bunch the National Securi professionals, the economic so e punch the National Security professionals and economic people and health professionals, i assum those would be top priority is and they name the people underneath and this is why ascertainment is important. President obama in his first hundred days had twice as many people itheir seats as president bu. The bush team had a great team, th were experienced, vice present cheney led the transmission. He and john podesta are the mo experienced transition People Living because theyve been involved in four five each, the bush personnel were buttoned up but couldnt get everything processed quickly. The security agreements and the painful ocess, and an enormous amount of work to get e package to the senate and that cant start. The best practice is to get them quickly. It took until year want to get 500 plus, obama less than 500, the faster those get going, the better the American Public is served. We have more prices right now. With you like biden or dont, america would benefit from having highly competent people in their sea in the National Security agencies and economic agencies as quickly as possible. Audience members are asking questions, please send the questions in the q and a function, what happened in 2000 with a contested election, when did the security briefings begin . Can security briefings begin without a certification . The answer is yes. President clinton and john podesta did the appropriate thing which is even if the election is contested. It was a different circumstance, there were 537 votes, that state determined the outcome. 346 electoral votes, four states, trump needs to win pennsylvania and george and biden is ahead by 50,000 plus, there are entirely different circumstances but regardless, president clinton authorized governor bush to receive the president s daily brief which is the highest level inteigence briefing possible even during the recot. Secretary chertoff, you served in the bush years. How much was in the administration . The experience and president bushs first year was slow down by florida, putting up the vote totals in florida in 2000 compared to today, 2016, and a couple other close elections. In the first year for president bush it really shaped his view of how to do his own transition. In the administration was there legend and more about this . What do people think of that first year and affecting your view of the transition to president obama . Biggest challenge was getting people processed, and ultimately confirmed. I was confirmed as criminal division. And in the department of justice on 9 11, the ag was confirmed, mueller had been in the job for one week, double and triple duty for responsibilitieshat normally, i think thclear chance we got, a Security Risk not to have that. Toet people up to speed, because enemies dont wait until i have a year to stle in. Ready to launch on day one already under assault by a virus, there has to be visibilityand what the capabilities are. That means people die. It is not just about a buaucratic shuffling but are you here to play russian roulette about the safety of the American People . Another question, can potus block gsa from its entertainment decision, what is likely to happen, can the head of the gsa ascertain that by hersf . She can, what the president might do, what do you thin about gsa and comment on this. The head of the gsaa is not a highly political person. Emy murphy is a procurement experts on the hill. How did get into this. What is clear is the independent authority. Is a continuity of government and fairness and multiple provisions in the state that required gsa to coordinate with encies including the white house. The provision on ascertainment with the gsa administrator alone but host a podcast lled transition lab, earlier this week, the administrator from 2000,nd focus on procurement, he found himself in is position. Throughout the entire 2000 recount he never had pressure fromhe white house, never had meetings with john podesta who was chief of staff and his decision alone, it was a gsa decision. Let me ask, focusing a lot on covid19, in previous transitions whatre the other things homeld security is focused on . What might happen in the next two months, while the transition is happening, while people are preparing to come in and the first two weeks of the administration what are people looking for . A few things, we were worried about terrorism and the first change of Administration Since september 11th and we were in combat in afgnistan and iraq as well. We h Security Issues, we were worried about a pandemic, the flu was a threat and circating around, so the incoming team could get a feel for the pandemic and concerned about potential violence and terrorism, there was in fact me intelligence that suggested there was goin to be a terrorist attack from g tties on the inauguration. It turned out to be a false alarm, butufficiently validated to be taken seriously. That is what we faced in the last two inaugurations and the immediate pilot period. I remember michael calling me to let me know of this intelligence threat and we discussed the day of the inaugural itself, for continuity of leadership in case something were to occur. We agreed between us even though it might be confirmed the day of the inauguration i wouldnt take the oath for a day or two after to make sure the threat screen had been cured. That is what happens with a cooperative transition. I was not able to keep flying back and forth to washington dc, so michael out of phoenix. And to warm sunny weather. Nonetheless they had quite extensive briefing materials prepared for me and my team so that we could review those, undertaking the thirdlargest department for the federal government. There were some joint exercises that were sponsored by the Bush Administration when it did go back. Bush people and obama people, sitting at the same table so that they can talk about what would happen if this were to occur, what would happen, what would be the next step, that sort of thing. It was led by the top and i give president bush credit to this. That kind of cooperative transition, the Gold Standard in terms of president ial transitions. President obama it transitioning to donald trump had given the same direction to his administration and used bushs transition as an example, directed materials to be prepared, directed that Agency Personnel be made available, directed that every cooperation should be extended to the trump team. The trump team did not take them up on it. It takes two to tango. You need the outgoing and the incoming to Work Together. A great segue to impart answer the question of a regular Miller Center attendee, the Trump Administration contacted the Miller Center during the transition, we had a firstyear project, just to echo and amplify what secretary napolitano said, there was the transition under Chris Christie that was put in place until election day, then Chris Christie was famously fired the day after the election. A new transition was set up under mike pence which was in washington where we have effective cooperation but people in washington refer to people as the tower, in trump tower they were running the transition so they were two transitions during the trump team and none of them were effectively coordinating with one another. Tracy tony, one thing was struck in the transition process thanks to the partnership for Public Service, a number of free transition meetings with different groups was the enormous Information Technology firms, the technological machine of government and how it gets updated every four years or eight years, are there technology handoff precautions, and transferred safely, not sabotaged by insiders against issues. With foreign interference. A secretary chertoff or napolitano would be better for me, over the worlds greatest experts on the security. The transition act, that has been amended multiple times, in the 2020 amendment that donald trump signed, were two ones added. In each agency. Those officials, we have been working with them through the cycle and we worked closely with the Trump White House throughout the cycle and they did a very good job, they were buttoned up, very professional and focused and implemented the law until the politicization of the entertainment but the clear officials are ready, briefing materials are set. All their it work is ready and they need the green light to get going. I would add one other cost of ascertainment, the biden team still does not have a dot. Gov system. If you email from they are still on the dot. Org system. One would think in would be in the United States interests to have them on a secure Communications Platform provided by the government under the president ial transition act. Let me defer to michael. It is ironic that after all the complaining of Hillary Clinton using a private server to communicate on government business the administration wouldnt have the steps necessary to allow the president elect and his team to have a Government Secured Network for their government related work. David is right. In the agencies, career officials will do their best to manage a smooth transition and under the best of circumstances moving from one group to another in terms of adequately changing passwords and grease everybody on Security Issues is a challenge. When we get to the white house you may run into a different issue which is whether there is some resentment or payback in which the white house deliberately doesnt cooperate or worse yet drop their guard and allows vulnerabilities to be inserted in the it network. If i was part of the Incoming Administration in Cyber Security i would be careful before logging on to the white house to make sure i did a scrub of wt was working on the network on january 20th. Secretary napolitano, do you want to know this when . Michael call it right. We will ask a question of e audience for those in zoom do you believe donald trump is justified in dealing the transition processntil challenges to the Election Results have been worked through . While you are all answering the question on your screen i am curious to come ck to this issue a number of people have asked whategal avenues are available to the biden team to foresee ascertainment, what can the public due to incrse, have their own voices heard in this process, a number of people are asking. As we can see, 97 dont think the president is justified. For those who dont feel it is justified what can or should they do . What they should do is listen to more Miller Center webinars. What youve done to educate and inform this having an impact, you are seeing that in the senate of the United States where more republicans are coming out particularly those that are security oriented and saying it is clear. The more people know that the standard for the gsa making a nonpolitical decision is the outcome of the election is clear. Let me hijack your program. I want to get you to talk about the question. You wrote a piece that was widely quoted in the National Press basically looking at the 59 president ial elections in the history of the United States, to rank close and say is this a close election . There four elections in the history of the United States that were too hard to call and this doesnt come close. Pretends moderating here, i will kick it to you. I will ask e team to put the slide backup that shows the various counsels. Essentially have had one election similar to this that ppened four years ago where donald trump won. And what we listed in 20202016 are the Tipping Point states, what it would take to change the Electoral College math and outcome and in each case it would take three states, donald trumin order to win this election wou have to flip three of the four states listed in 2020, arizona, georgia, wiscsin or pennsylvania. One of the viewers asked wt ev stands for, stands for ectoral vote. In arizona and georgia, in president elect bidens camp, to fall from 360 below 270. There is one scenario, 269269 and then the house of representatives. They have to lose three of four states. In 2016 donald trump would have had to lose l three states foHillary Clinton to win. In in 2000, 1976, and 1960. If you go back to 1876, four states where required,nd several months. The losers saw those margi and conceded the following day. By historical standards, the loser not doing that was 1860, Abraham Lincoln won a convincing Electoral College victory. Is 1860 not a good model for us . Is living in one of the reform states, i would argue two blocks from the robert e lee statute, donald trump should be lookg at statues of robert ely and Jefferson Davis and others, heas a huge, the clearest and easiest way, is to undermine the legitimacy of the institutions of the United States. That is why argue and i feel that strongly. This is quite a radical move the president is making. It is not a close election. It is close in the last 50 years it is one of the 5 closest, but is the fifth closest of the last 50 years. The least important test in todays panel. As you look forward, when do things start to move. At the beginning a lot going on, it is not essential but is it next week or the week after, the president elect or Vice President when should security clearances be issued . Not that it wasnt important to start happening, it should have happened yesterday. The more time that passes, the greater the damages, the biden team is largely composed of a lot of experience so they may not be totally current but have a feel. Simply meaning it would be greater and greater risk as the transition approaches the inauguration. This year it started at the beginning of this week after the dust settled after the election. At one point i would make, there is nothing that precludes e transition process, the litigation and challenges are going on, that could continue, Donald Trumps litigation, nuts and bolts of the transition can already get started. That is a perfect position for republicans in the senate, they are not saying donald trump does not have the right to pursue his litigation even though the likelihood of that outcome according to experts is almost 0 change in the election but they are saying what secretary napolitano said which is get going with the rest of it while the election stuff is sorted out. That is a very well said position, that is the email urging position. I will ask you to take off your Homeland Security had and put on your federal judge and federal prosecutor had. There is a growing set of conversations in major newspapers the president is encouraging people to think about getting state legislatures involved in overturning the state vote. I am curious as a legal matter and a political matter, is that allowed, is it a wise course, entitled to seek them . You want to go first . It is legally very dubious, it is under federal law, the election andote has to occur on election day and changing that federal law, it is difficult politically. It would be political suicide to say we ll take this away from the voters and it is a dirty deal to donald trump. Let me chime in. The votes that were eligible to be counted have been counted. Many were counted after november 3rd in this election. Nonetheless valid votes for the legislature to come in and redo and election holding our democracy to ourselves as opposed to the voters. And as a matter of politics, the legislate the tried to do that. We t up our subway map of the white house that are graphic artist pulled to gather. There is a green line that goes from e election day to independence day. The state certification of votes. What you see on this map, peop moved to the wes the court is getting involved in the state donald trump is bringing. To put it into a local map, so secretary napolitanoith legal perspectives as you see cases come forward do you see anything in there that has merit, a stalled train at one of the to close things down. I agree, no. Lets assume it returns to the green line, the Electoral College convenes, theres been eculation this gets thrown into the house and senate. Without any homework assignment, how much do you worry about that when the electoral coege convenes members of the house and senate might challenge the findings of the Electoral College. I dont think theres a legal basis to do that. If theres an issue about a particular delegationhat would go to congress for competing delegaons, i dont see the legislature coming up with an alternative. The only issues Congress Gets to weigh in if someone doesnt have 270 bucks so for some ason you have 269269. At is not going to happen so it is a ministerial act with outcomes. What is the risk we ready got that one. Anybody who had a question what if the president simply refuses to leave . This seems extreme and odd, so much we have seen in the last four years seemed so odd and i am curious to get your take on that. I would assume the us marshals would be sent to the white house with a warrant of eviction, would have to remove him. I dont think that will happen. I hava suspicion hes going to go tomorrow lago ov christmas and may not come ck. He may camp down there and create his alternative whi house, not talking about ruing in 2024. I dont think that is a realistic issue. The question for the audience. There is no requirement that a sitting president attend the inauguration of his successor and we all remember john adams in 1800 kind of fled washington dc in the dark of night, the night before thomas jefferson, and there had been a few other examples. It is a matter of norm in the modern era, a matter of grace, i dont expect that. The efforts reviewing transition materials and presentations by the Incoming Trump appointees, i am curious to know there are senior Trump Officials who were involved in planning the romney transition. That is in 2016. Preparing for this transition prior to election day, the professionalism that exists in the Trump Administration, a feeling it is all a monolith, but rious shades of different types of people in the administration. We worked closely with the Chris Christie team. Chris christie and his right hand pson who was chief of staff, a lawyer, very buttoned up princeton gd, dont think he got into uva or he would have gone there. And democrats and publicans, the spirit with which you see the conversation between secretary chernoff and napolitano, he has been a ugh guy on the republican side, investigated whitewater, the head of the criminalivision, he worked collaboratively with secretary napolitano on president bushs instruction, very pfessional work in the administration at the gsa. Unfortunately,hat was a me to the side, and i hope they get the chance to do so soon. Lisa asks what connection do you see between the firing of top senior officials such as secretary of defense and subsequent resignation and smooth transfer. From your various perspectives and career positions not just Homeland Security but Homeland Security, how significant is that, how worried are you about what happened . Once the transition begins to occur, the new acting secretary of defense isnt going to know very much. He will just of got in there himself. To educate the incoming secretary. It does interfere with the content of transition among other things. Secretary jasper meeting with the incoming secretary of defense, discussing classified matters, one thing about the forced exodus, they are no longer in position, the biden people, enriching what they havent already to set up those discussions. You are probably right. From my perspective, please jump in. A very deep dive focus on National Security and there are a lot of firstyear crises the first year crisis of bay of pigs the Eisenhower Administration had been planning the invasion of cuba, president kennedy came in, changed a few features of that and it led to a disaster, in some ways that happened in 1993 when the Bush Administration had a peacekeeping exercise in somalia. The clinton team came in, they understood some parts of the operation, made a few changes, whether those changes were made by the bush team is uncertain but in the first months of the administration they made a mistake and obviously we know about 9 11. We dont know whether the next 60 days the Trump Administration will take steps overseas to create a new set of challenges whether it is prematureulling out of afghanistan and the region, whether it is steps that would exacerbateensions with iran. We may have a repeat of those instances. Glad that you chimed in. I applaud your take and secretary napolitanos on president bidens conversations with foreign leaders. Some has been written about that, your own thoughts on that. This is an important point. The best practices set in the bush obama transition, this burned him the entire presidency and something that stuck with him throughout the presidency and the smoothest outgoing transition to whoever wins, mccain or obama. If obama wins, secretary race and steve hasman consistent with what Michael Chertoff said, create a camp that the state operations center, access to interpreters, only one president at a time and we dont want to interfere with what you are doing, lets coordinate our messaging, the state center placed the call, facilitated it and they were done in a secure manner. How does that serve the United States . I want to emphasize the biden team understands this, there is only one president at a time. Getting in the coming congratulatory calls, they are extraordinarily careful with any matters of policy. The biden team is doing what they should be doing, not only following the creating best practices, pros in this, they are being very careful. Itould be better if they had full support of thstate department and the state department technology. No doubt. Chertoff, i am going to give you the last word before we thank our audience. Any final thoughts. Before the election there would be disrupti of voting, they had a record turnout, a very smooth procs. A loof people, Unsung Heroes through state anlocal officials doing their jobs and that is the strength of america and we put our heads down and determine. That is the right note to end on and i am appreciative of all three of you, i failed to mention at the outset secretarys chertoff and napolitano and ridge and johnson and other republicans, the citizens for safe democracy. The center for president ial transition for Public Service. I want to thank all of them, i think the audience for joining us in the zoom and through cspan, for this particularly george and judy market and a democracy Practice Fund and the Miller Center team and we will see you. Thank you so much. More on the coronavirus pandemic later today. Medical professionals testified on how patient therapies and treatment of the senate Homeland Security Committee Hearing live at 9 am eastern on cspan 3. Then on cspan2 at 10 00, a hearing to consider a federal pandemic Risk Insurance program, later with doctor robert redfield, the centers for Disease Control and prevention also on cspan2. With coronavirusases increasing across the country use our website, cspan. Org coronavirus to follow the trends and watch updates on demand on cspan. Org coronavirus. Top nonfiction books and authors every weekend. Coming up