For right now. We want this to be as interactive as possible and i hope youll all join us in the questions as you can bring to our guests and planning to ask you a couple of questions. We are going to take advantage of the Polling Technology this afternoon. As i said, this is a conversation ive been looking forward to all day and for many weeks now. We are joined by bill gates, somebody who needs no introduction. Ive had the privilege to know bill for quite some time and talk to him throughout this pandemic and he is far and away the smartest person i know about really helping us set the table understanding where we are. Ive called him a National Treasure and now hes a global treasure. Donated more than 400 million to Covid Research and called this, i hate to say it, in advance back in 2015 whene warned about a possible pandemic of ts sort. I should also note hesrying to get into the journalism business to start a podcast this week which you can go out and get as well. I should also introduce albert bourla, alber may no longer need anntroduction either. The ceo of pfizer and he has done something quite remarkable with this Covid Vaccine and the trial results that we have seen have been just astonishing and we are going to talk to him about what that all means and where its headed and then heidi larson who runs the Vaccine Confidence project. One of the most important efforts that i know about to get people to ultimately take a vaccine, and that, as we talked about, with dr. Fauci is such an important element of how were going to get out of this ndemic. And so, let me start with bill. Bill, you a i have had had a lot of conversations during this pandemic and yve always beenble to level set me in a very truthful way about where we are. Weve spent some time with dr. Fauci who you know very, very well and who wasn your podcast. We talked to him just about little over an hour a and he said something that surprised. He said that for us to get back to a noask wearing, no social distance world, that h imagined that the vaccination uptake, the percentage of people that would have to take it would have to be nth of 75 . And as i thought about that in the United States, im thinng, thats 250 million some odd people. The vaccines appear and albert will talk about it, have to be taken twice wh a boter, 500 million visitso a doctor. How confident, well talk to heidi about confidence. But how confident are you that a year from now if we were having this conversation hopefully in person that well get there . Well, were likely to be supply constrained on the vaccine for the next year, particularly if you look on a global basis. You know, with the very good news from pfizer and moderna, we think its now likely that astrazeneca, novavax and johnson and johnson will also likely show very strong efficacy and those three vaccines are a little easier to scale up to production at low marginal costs and dont have the same temperature requirements. So for the developing world, the source agreements we have with manufacturers make those three vaccines may be part of the getting the supply equation solved. Its fair to say that now that the supply is starting to emerge, the demand side may be something important. Im a little surprised we dont have a website from the c. D. C. Where people are registering their interest in taking the vaccine where we can coordinate things and of course, we need some sort of Digital Certificate because were likely to say to people working in Nursing Homes or hospitals or maybe even schools that they need to authenticate that theyve been vaccinated and even travel will have some of that. So, its exciting that pfizer did a great job, you know, broke every record, but now the distribution challenge, including getting for the world, you know, over 10 billion doses, its very daunting. Were you surprised when you heard the results . I was very happy because weve been tracking one of our top vaccine people who worked at pfizer, we have been tracking the results. The pfizer had good results, but so did a lot of other vaccines. We didnt know what the response would be and the fact that thats protective makes us think the other vaccines will be as well. It was very welldone to get it done as quickly. It was at the high end of what people expected, the biology is not totally predictable, but theres a lot of heroes, including the willingness to team up with bioentech and bring the things to pfizer and bioentech, the whole story is a great story and in the years ahead well figure out how to avoid the cold chain and get the manufacturing costs and scaleability, you know, this platform will be valuable for far more than just covid eliminati elimination. A, albert, great to see you, and thank you for the work in the entire country when it gets out, owes you a debt of gratitude. Help us understand this, there are so many questions abouts vaccine. You hear the 90 plus numbers and moderna at 94 , but people still dont know how long the vaccines will last. There are questions about the age with which and is he verity, illness severity. Can you speak to Big Questions you think of still unanswered . Yes, there are many questions unanswered, but the fundamental questions about do we have a vaccine now, too, with moderna that have outstanding efficacy has been answered. I think that the questions about safety at large have also been answered, our safety milestone, and we are preparing now to submission. When it comes how durable the protection will be, this is something we dont know and this is why were following our subjects in the study. The 44,000 for at least two years so that it will see if there is a in the durability or not. The good news is if there is one, with the technology, you can boost as soon as you want, and in this case, you dont need two doses, likely one will be needed, which means that if its annual, people have one dose the next year and then one dose, the year after. But we dont know, we may find that the immunity is quite durable right now. Albert i was just going to ask you, how concerned are you that people will take one dose and wont go back for the second dose . I think that will be a big mistake, but this is this happens. And in several cases. Usually with our vaccine we have quite good level of compliance, but we hope that all will be responsible to that and they will take their two doses. Albert, before we did this we got so many questions directly for you. Because people want to know about the drug unto itself. I want to ask you rapid fire, a couple of quick ones. This is in part because moderna gave more details than you did, but maybe you can say of the 94 cases covid trial participants, how many placebo and how many in the Vaccine Group and can you say whether they had severe illness or not . The reason why we didnt give the exact number as we just said, more than 90 , was because at the end, when the study concludes, there is always the chance that well go one point up, one point down. So if it was 95, wed be 96 or 94 and i didnt want to confuse people. Given that we are very, very close to announce our final results, i would wait to announce the final results and all this one more before i get to heidi, but it goes to the issue of confidence, actually, in the country right now about all of this and frankly, how politicized, albert, you know that this that covid has become. Since the announcement, as you know, the president has accused pfizer, basically of conspiring with the fda, so that the vaccine news would come out after the election. Thats the allegation. Speak to it as you could, as directly as you can. Oh, i will be very direct. We didnt conspire with anyone and elections, was always for us an artificial deadline. Might have been important for the president , but not for us. And immediately after the first president ial debate a letter to our employees that was pub published and i was saying that someone has to move faster, some slower. We are going to move with the speed of science which is what we did. I had predicted we would have efficacy results by the end of october and many people told me thats too soon and complained, nen i announced a few days later, being the first week of november and many people told me that was too late. And what to do . This is what science does. We had to follow the first thing, the first in my mind was to follow all the process scientistically and ethically. Once we had the results, it would be undisputable and this is what we did. Did you ever get a call from anyone in the white house or the administration saying you need to come forward with in before november 3rd . No. I knew very well because i had spoken to the president that he would like to see, but i think any pressure per se on me to do something, but it is not appropriate and i think that everybody knew better than Something Like that because i would never do Something Like that. Heidi, i want to bring you into this conversation and get at this issue of confidence and the first question that i asked bill about, if we really have to get to the 75 uptake of taking this vaccine, putting aside the supply constraints and lets just talk about the demand. What do you think the world looks like right now . Meaning, would you anticipate we could get to 75 . What number would you project and what would you do about it . Well, theres always theres always a chance. Were not there yet in terms of the public intent based on a lot of the global surveys, thats, you know, a bit below that. Its more 50, 60, depends on the country. Its actually quite variable across countries beau thats only intention. So, i think sometimes there has been too much disappointment and prediction that its going to be people dont know, we have to appreciate that its been a hyper uncertain time so i dont think that we should say were never going to get there just because the surveys have look at political opinion polling. I mean, people are this week, i think will change the landscape because the hope behind it, i think this has been a huge vote of confidence in a sense. People judge, they want to know if it works, thats the big thing. They want to know if its safe. And then they want to know, you know, who is going to get it first. And i think this week has shifted, i mean, were about to rerun a lot of surveys because this will change. This will change how people think. So, i think there is hope. It wont be everywhere and we have a lot of work to do and we need to Start Building the awareness of the options and what its going to take sooner rather than later. Dont wait for the vaccine to be at the clinic before. Hey, bill, could you speak to this. Before we have this session we publicized we were going to have this conversation and i got a torrent, as i imagine you may, of tweets and other emails and social media from people who, im afraid to say clearly dont like you and seemed to suggest that this vaccine is somehow cannot only funded by you, but some kind of effort to track you or track people. How concerned are you about this . What do you think of this . When you go home and talk to melinda and see this stuff online, whats the conversation like . Well, up until the pandemic, our work on Infectious Disease was reasonably obscure because, you know, millara is gone from the rich countries, tb is very limited, even hiv is largely contained so the world of people who think about vaccines and vaccine platforms and how we do all of these things, its a you know, very Important Group of people who have done amazing work bringing childhood deaths down and we have lots of new vaccines some of which were working with pfizer to get out for more of these childhood diseases so it turned out that, you know, our team of vaccine experts was outside the private sector, one of the largest groups and so the idea of, okay, how do we get these second sorts agreements with the manufacturers. We were able to bring a lot to that including some of our resources. You know, the fact that i said this was a rn could, i wasnt the only one. That was a concern. Health experts have said its unusual to have a software person saying okay, this is the biggest threat for all of these deaths. So im surprised at the conspiracy theories. I think im supposed to, you know, make it clear that theyre not true. But you know, where does that come from . Is it because these are Uncertain Times . People prefer a simpler story than the biological stenosis that took place . I hope it fades away because were just trying to play a constructive role where a lot of these tools and whether its antibodies and vaccines, you dont want market based pricing, you want all of humanity to collaborate together and were helping to facilitate that. Let me follow up and ask you this, and something we talked to dr. Fauci as well. There seems to be a behavioral science question going on in the country people who decide to wear masks to not wear masks, maybe to get the vaccine, to not get the vaccine. Dr. Fauci has probably done 2000 interviews hes told the public emphatically as he can about the skypes science and there are people maybe inexplicable, dont understand, dont want to understand, dont believe it or actively trying to do something to make it not the case. How do you think about that . Well, the idea that theres some people who think anything, you know, its okay. Theres going to be fringe groups. The fact that in the United States that the mask wearing skepticism or view that thats a political act, the u. S. Is worse than other countries and is that because of our current leadership . Is it because of the you know, our individual view of things . I think thats hard to attribute. I wouldnt have expected mask wearing to become controversial. I wouldnt have expected the administration to find sort of the wildest fringe opinion possible and put that opinion as the leader of the Coronavirus Task force. You know, so this thing is full of surprises, but you know, people do want to protect themselves. They do want to protect their parents and grandparents. I hope were surprised on the upside by the demand for the vaccine. Albert, bill just mentioned the president , the current administration, one of the Big Questions is the next administration in this transition period. It sound like dr. Fauci and others have not had an opportunity to talk to the baidu transition team, but you may have . Have you had a conversation with them yet . I havent talked to the vicepresident and president elect now, biden myself. But our team throughout the process kept informed both, the white house and the biden campaign. And the same happened with the leadership of the congress, we kept informed and myself personally as well, the leaders from the democratic and the Republican Party so they were all very wellinformed and we keep doing that up to now, the vaccine data out. Are you concerned about the transition period . I know there are lots of challenges about distributing this drug to begin with, let alone having to deal with two different administrations in the middle of it. I dont think its ideally that we are starting like in the middle of a transition. Its always better when there is clear accountability in leadership, but i think that that will not become the problem. I thinks bill said, for me, the biggest challenge will be that in the beginning the Dose Availability will be smaller than the demand. I have zero concerns about, for example, the saying that we have to implement, and i know there were a lot of things, i feel very, very confident, but we will send it to everywhere. At help explain that to the public so everybody understands whats happening here. Because your vaccine does need to stay at a very cold temperature and therefore, youre going to be sending it out in custommade boxes, my understanding is, effectively with dry ice in them. How is that going to work . And what does it do to the pricing of the drug . Our engineers have developed these boxes, actually and they did that months back. And those boxes are iso thermic boxes and they have a gps and a thermometer inside and we know at any point where the boxes and what is the temperature if something goes wrong, we do not anticipate, we dont use the vaccine. Every box is a small box like that and can take 1,000 to 5,000 doses and when we see we dont need to use refrigeration, we can ship it in cars, planes, boats, whatever. In the u. S. We will ship in most of the places overnight so once we receive an address from the government, the next day the product will be there and once people receive it, they can keep it for weeks in the box or they can keep it for months in super freezers or put it in refrigeration and keep it for a week approximately. I think that the demand will be so big that it was begun to its going to be distributed, not distributed, but injected in hours, rather than days or weeks. So we feel very confident about it. Let me just ask you, talking about the demand issue and just how much is going to be needed. Your company made a particular point of saying that you werent part of the operation warp speed program, though the government of course did commit to buy close to 2 billion worth of the vaccine. In retrospect now that we know how successful these tests and efficacies seem to be do you think you should have participated and let them effectively defray some of the costs so you could have ramped up even more . I think its irrelevant. I think the reason why, first of all, let me be clear its not that were not part of the operation warp speed because we had discussions with them to cooperate in every form that we can find useful. We didnt take a single cent from anybody and as a result we didnt follow any recommendations and protocols, we didnt have to report. Its all developing of our scientists and the reason why i did it because i wanted to liberate our scientists from the bureaucracy that comes together when you are accepting money from a governmental organization. We didnt take money from any of them. I think and also i wanted to keep pfizer out of politics, because you see even without taking the money you see what happened with our vaccine because we are a company that has high profile. Thats very, very, very wellknown. Now, okay, we may have this whole thing will cost us 2 billion if we were unsuccessful, we had to write off 2 billion, this is painful for any corporation. But were not going to break us. So we continue. On the contrary if we were successful the fact that we were independent and we protect ourselves from politics we can be not only good service to us, but to department of Public Health so i dont regret a single moment i didnt do it and i wouldnt regret it even if we had failed. Fair enough. Bill, i wanted to go back to you for something youve been saying for months the issue of testing. And what a mess, frankly, testing has been in the United States. I talked to the doctor. Dr. Fauci about this earlier, but are you of the of the view that we should be doing and investing in massive effectively surveillance testing in the United States and is that a Worthy Investment at this point given what we hope is going to be coming quite soon in the form of vaccines from people like albert . So even if we get reasonable coverage, say eight or nine months from now, theres a lot of lives still to be saved between now and then. You know, over 250,000 lives are potentially at risk in terms of both our behavior and using the testing data to quarantine. And so whether its schools or Nursing Homes, yes, the continued scale up of the tests, getting the results back quicker, and now, theres this very complicated thing of understanding where these socalled lateral antigen tests, where those are appropriate and where theyre not because thats the main thing thats upper the numbers, otherwise theres a gradual increase. There may be a few breakthroughs in january and february that may get out in time. You know, weve got the selftest idea which is the thing that our foundation proved out, that can help a lot. So, testing is still very important and likewise, getting these monochromal antibodies out as a therapeutic you need to give the patient fairly early is super important. If we have one wish it would have been the vaccine, but we also still have wishes about getting those antibodies to reduce deaths, which could be up to 80 and reducing the infection rate in the eight to nine months before we get wyatt spread dosage, even in the United States. Do you think we should test, by the way, for antibodies before distributing the vaccine given the supply that we have . No, if the antibody tests are limited enough and socalled infection is not as protective as vaccine infection. Vaccine is a very unnatural stimulation to at th particulart of antigens, we should give the vaccine to everybody independent of whether they feel they were infected beforehand. Albert, can you weigh in on that issue as well. Given the demand issue . Ive seen people suggest that as a way to deal with how to approach the distribution. I believe thats accountable and responsible for every country in the state. They should design special programs how they can use the available doses to them strategically. I agree with bill, but its not to me to make the decision. I would have start giving it to more vulnerable populations and firstline responders, but again, the plans will be tailored to every state and the state governments would make in cooperation with the c. D. C. And operation warp speed. I want to ask you one other actually two other questions before we pivot off of the vaccine question, albert because i know youre going to jump off in just a moment. One is, and bill alluded to this. Mr and a. When you look into the future of what this what these results represent, what do you think the greatest opportunity is here . Look, i mean, the business this is the first confirmation and glorious confirmation of the power of technology and i believe that the technology has a lot to offer in the vaccines, for example, other viral infections, but also, in other medical applications, against cancer, for example, and im vest optimistic about pretty soon well start seeing a lot of followup innovations that are built on the base of successfully proven mr and a. And before you jump off. Let me ask you a question. Its been in the headlines and as happy as we are about the vaccine there have been questions raised about some of the stock sales that executives at pfizer, including yourself were engaged in last week as part of the preplanned 10d5. And i appreciate you put that in place last winter, but reaffirmed it in august and given were having a conversation about confidence and credible. Whether you think it was a mistake whether not to have ended that Program Given the conversations and questions being asked now . Yes, thank you. No, i understand because this comes with the territory and if suddenly your company and yourself as a leader is in the spotlight, always there will be things that will be criticized. You know, im working years with pfizer and something you dont know is this is the first time i ever sold any pfizer stocks for 27 years i accumulate only. And i have said this plan in february and of 2020 and i set the price and i set the volume that i wanted to first time in my life sell shares and i had the exact same conditions price and volumes when the plan was close to expiration for one year. In fact on monday, i didnt know i sell, as an administrator, and never sold the stock price going bold when i monitor the price asking apparently went and i couldnt see it in the diagram and that was sold. I regret because for me, now, im its the first time that i become so famous and from a hero to a why you sold in one day and you know, it was, you know, i was very happy then i was devastated when i saw what was written. Yeah, i wish i didnt have to deal with that. But as i said, its its coming, it comes with the territory. Two quick followups, will you change the Program Going forward . Change what . Will you change the forward Going Forward . Are you going to end the program . I dont have any other program right now. I had one in my whole thats the first ever did in my life and thats the first time they ever sold any shares ap what they were sold automatically. Let me ask one final question. As you know so very well, the Pharma Industry has long been considered a villain often times in washington and in the publics sphere. Do you think that this is going to fundamentally change the success of hopefully this vaccine and what the industry has done, its going to fundamentally change the perception of the people and industry that you work in . I hope so and i think that these represent a unique opportunity to reset the valuable position that this industry is having in the perception of people and society, but i would didnt clair any victory, i think there are many more things that we need to do because the reputation is lost in and so i hope that we will continue to doing the miracles that we do and that people will seem to be less suspicious rather than conspiracy theories, we discussed that before, with bill, and this buy pharmaceutical industry which is in this country is the crown jewel of technology will get the recognition and reputation it deserves. Theres no other industry in my life nmy opinion no other industry that produces so much good to humanity. Albert, i want to thank you, appreciate it very, very much. I know youre going to jump off, but were going to stick with bill and stick with heidi and i wanted to ask heidi, if i could, a little bit about some of the projects that youre working on to try to get people to take the vaccine. And the reason i ask about this again, but in particular some of the very specific efforts that youre engaged in to try to get this done on a grass roots level. One of the things we have been talking about is this idea that its not necessarily going to come from the president of the United States. It may come from a pastor, it may come from your local doctor. It may come from people that live in your community. And what you think has to be done to accomplish that, especially in places where there seems to be so much resistance. Well, i think actually bill would know this, that we learned a lot with the initiative about getting as local as you can and really getting into the and listening in some cases its religious leaders, in some cases might be the teachers and somewhere else i think when the top distrusted and is not giving even when there is clarity at the top, you still want to build that Community Momentum and the reality is theres a lot of the distrust in the people who are believing more and are more anxious are in communities which are not going to follow national guidance, theyre not going to be following who guidant, they want to hear it from their neighbor. And how critical bill alluded to it, there are certain jobs you have where its required to take the vaccine. Do you think heidi, employers, especially in the United States should require it . Would that create more compliance or do you think that creates a bigger backlash . Well, i think compulsion in general particularly in the current environment, theres not a lot of appetite for more, theres resistance to the idea of control in general, but there are a lot of precedence for, as bill had mentioned earlier, getting certificates for certain things, whether its to work in hospitals, i mean, to go to schools. And so, its much more setting based than a government requiring it more broadly. So you dont spread to other people the virus. So its feasible, but i i dont think were there yet because also, we dont have enough supply. You need to be ready to deliver when you demand something. You need to have the supplies, the supplies to be requiring everyone to take it it. And bill, before we continue the rest of the conversation. I want to talk to you about therapeutics and whats happening every the next period. We have the polling function here, bill, where the tens of thousands of people if not more than that, looks like theyre joining us have the ability to answer a poll. I want to ask a question based on the conversation that we just had, which is if the fda approved a pfizer or moderna vaccine, would you take it, but here is the question. Would you take it in the first month . We are going to ask everybody to try to answer that as we continue our conversation and hopefully at the end of the conversation well talk about the results. Weve talked a lot about the vaccines bill. Lets talk about therapeutics and what you see on the horizon. What are the interesting ones out there and how important that may be ultimately to do if they get it, part of the 10 perhaps that somehow still has the vaccine and gets it, that they are going to be okay . Well, the therapeutics has been a disappointment. We devised therapeutics in the early stage that modifies the viral peak or late stage that mostly moderate the immune overreaction. And there was a trial partly funded by the foundation in the u. K. Early on that showed dexo methsewn. And only remdesivir, were surprised there wasnt more. One was exciting was the mono chromal antibody. And a. 7 gram infusion of the si single antibody just a week ago. Now were working with them to change that to see if we could avoid the confusion and just go with whats called a sub2 shot of. 3 grams which would make scaling it up a lot easier because infusion is a bit difficult. We dont have, even in the u. S. , a lot of Spare Capacity for that. So im fairly hopeful about that. We made a bet back in the spring to reserve a factory to make this antibody so that wed have the capacity to get it out to lots of countries and you know, in the next month, well see is this simple formation,. 3 grams, does that work as well as the. 7 grams approved. Now, this may sound counter intuitive, but if youre successful does it mean less people will take the vaccine, meaning if people think they can walk into a cvs and take a different drug, is that going to change the dynamic . You know, if the antibody was like 95 or 100 effective, then, yes, but it wont be, it will be more like 70 to 80 effective. And so, no, i think people will know not to roll the dice and let themselves get infected and hope that the antibody will save them. You know, with hiv the medicines are so effective that we do have this inhibition challenge with that, but i dont think that we would see that in this case. I was going to go to bill on this, but we should actually start with heidi on this. I want to understand social media. Bill was on social media, bill is a technologist, but heidi, youve been dealing with social media on part of this whole situation and i wonder what you think the social media companies, i should tell you Mark Zuckerberg and jack dorsey are testifying today virtually in washington. What do you think they should do differently . Well, i think they have an absolutely key role in reining in the amplification of these mis particularly the very damaging and harmful misinformation thats out there. I think its a challenging inning in terms of not everything is so straight forward like drinking chlorine to cure you. I mean, that is explicitly harmful and they can take that down, but theres a lot of very ak big use questioning that is much more difficult from a freedom of speech point of view, as well as ethically to take down. But what they can do is clip it off at the back end, not so to speak. Its really whats different between now and these empty vaccine leaks in the 1800s is the rate and speed and amplification beyond what anyone who puts out this actually really even realizes. So, i think thats where theres a Critical Role because what we see even with the political, the cards and the flagging of misinformation in the campaign, what happens is, when the groups and ones propagating the misinformation is restricting on the face end they move. Theres plenty of alternatives these days, plenty of other places to. So i think we have to be strategic or encourage them, lets see what they have to say about that, but thats what i would bill, where do you land . Are they a platform that should have, you know, free and unfettered free speech or a Media Company . You know, the the number of messages that originated on these services is gigantic and some of them are more, you know, the nature of posting to a very small group of people you know well. Others are more like publishing where you have a large group that includes many strangers and you know, asking them to be the arbiter of all of these things is pretty tough. Now, extreme stuff like qanonor certain of the conspiracy theories, they have been more active in the last few months. Particularly about medical misinformation. Theyve been better about that, some election misinformation, too, hopefully were past most of that. But i used to have a very tough job. They should see things that are catching on and kind of exponential ways and those they should pay particular attention to, including i think this being able to mark stuff and say, you know, okay, you should read that, you know, this is believed to be false. I think were sort of finding our way which wont be either leave it alone all the time or strict liability, which, you know, if its liability, its not clear that they could even stay in business. Do you think though, i mean, one of the things thats fascinating is the rise, for example, of parler. The number of high profile people who have jumped onto that band wagon. Even if you have some companies voluntarily try to manage this, you have others who may approach it in a very different way. And you lived with the regulatory beast in washington before, bill, but do you think that ultimately regulation is required . There will be regulation and you know, at least once people go to parler. They say i like crazy stuff. Youre not taking a mainstream thing how a family stays in touch and its used for a variety of things. Youre literally going over to hey, whats the craziest thing that anybody is saying and so, its a choice youre making, you know, and if you want holocaust denial, hey, parler is going to be great for you. But, its where this, you know, Facebook Services are the primary way people access news and they get drawn in to more and more extreme stories, including some of these. Were leaving this discussion a few minutes early to keep our long Time Commitment to live gavel to gavel Senate Coverage. United states will continue working on judicial nominations and the vote is set for 11 eastern advancing nomnation for the u. S. Court of international trade. Live Senate Coverage is here on cspan2. Thpresiding officer the senate will come to orde the chaplain dr. Barry black will lead the senate in prayer. The chaplain let us pray holy god, continue to be our strength and shield. Extend your powerful hands to aid and deliver us. Lord, inspireur senators to bieve that you continue to work for the good of those who love you. Let your favor shine
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