Asking why is a president ial or successful president ial transition so important . Guest its about our safety is the ultimate answer here. When you think about it our democratic system envisions transfers of power when you have elections so you have accountable government. That means and you can ask to figure out how to take charge immediately on january 20 in an effective way. Its a big task. Think about our government come youre looking at 5 trillion and come 4 Million People come to me for those think uniform and reservists. Youve hundreds of operating units and historically president s have pointed about 4000 political appointees. Its a massive undertaking and nothing else quite like it. The transition is all about getting ready to do that successfully. The issue is really the world is such a dangerous place that theres not a lot of time on the other end posted january 20 to do your learning curve. You have to be at the top of it right away. You need your people in place, have your plans in place, learn how to work well together and thats work that takes lots of people working very hard at. The biden to miss been doing this work since really the springtime. They have a phenomenal leadership there in ted kaufman the nose this arena extremely well who is close to president elect biden and this no ambition himself. Hes a trifecta perfect person. The gsa has been cooperating up until now but we are in a new phase, a phase that requires engagement with the incumbent government mainly for career workforce thats and happen yet and that thehe batting. Host en talked about our safety. As the week was independent of the weekend really a number of republican senators and people like former chief of staff john kelly are now calling on the biden team to be briefed in these transitions, the security briefings, for example, the president ial daily briefings and things like that. Why are those so essential to the neweam coming in . Guest again it comes back to what the job will be on january 20 and its hane ada problems in response the paemic of rebuilding the economy and problemshat undoubtedly around the corner at are not yet on our doorstep but are onheir way. The best historical example of this was the transitn to president bush in 2000 where he expericed a short transition period as a result of the disagreement about the election in florida. And the 9 11 Commission Found explicitly that that truncated transition was one of the real reasons why we had such trouble in responding to 9 11. In that i was a lot harder for the bush team toave their National Security team in place and the cost is real harm. Thats whats at sta. Our government is fundamentally the most Important Organization weave to keep us safe as a society and that is a real risk for us i if we dont ensure that there is adequate cooperation between the incoming and outgoing administration. Its not just National Security extra pickets also endemic. Think about all that has to be done to move forward with vaccines come with the economy. Thats a baton handoff that is fundamental to all of us. It requires a large number of people to be well coordinated on the biden team and up to speed, and that takes time. Thats really what wre talking about here is ensuring that the bike team is given access not just to the daily breeze but the people that are working on these problems right now, the information they need and to the processing parts of our government that will enable 132 step in my what. Host would talk about the process of the president ial transition. Our guest this max stier, president and ceo for the partnership for public service. Your calls are welcome. Independents and others, 202 7488002. You mentioned the delay in the 2000 handoff. We so far have yet to have President Trump concede or recognize joe biden as the winner of the 2020 election. Is there any o is there any other historical sort of similarity or similar sort of setting where the was a delay like this caused my when candidate refusing to note the other . This is in my mind unique. I dont think this is like 2000 for two b reasons. The first is the feud in 2000 was a very clear one and you had questions from Vice President gore and the change in perspective in a single state with aery small number of votethat were in question here which is not what we were we are experiencing now. Even more importantly we are aware now of the consequences of delay trantion making, the point i made about 9 1earlier. We know we are in a dangerous world and tt delay can be a real problem for our health, welfare, and safety. President trump has not yet conceded, my view is that is not necessary for him to do in order to allow the transition process to mov forward. The reality is he can maintain his ability toursue litigation options and still have a for our safety. Thats the outcome we need. Gsa has to recognize that and the funding has to be turned on and provided for the incoming team, the biden team. Max you are absolutely right and i will reiterate that the solid anden really capable partner in helping the biden team do transion preparation preelection. They are led by a serious administrator, and my hope is that she will ma the decision to ascertain biden as the president elect so that work can continue forward, that so important. And large the engagement with the incumbent government is what the with the career workforce and they are the people who in my view run the place. They are the ones that hold the essential information that the biden team really needs to be able to prepare effectively. Host how iyour group involved in this and how have you been involved in previous transitions . Are a nonpartisan, Nonprofit Organization focused on trying to makeur federal government work better. We liv in a worl where pretty much every organization engas with government around tir preferences around policy. Our view is, if you dont have a government working effectively, than those policy preferences dont make a lot of difference, that really the execution of at policyowards the fundamental. We see predential transitions mosting one of the imrtant processes for a new administration to get going well and run e government effectively. Recognize that about a dozen years ago this was an area where nobody had systemized it. We created a set of guide books on how to dot right and have worked closely with arius legislators inuding ted kaufman who has been the godfather of the modern transition process and currently runs the ben transition, to improve that process. There is no moremportant complicated and Critical Organization in our cotry other than our federal government not only in our country, but in history. Getting that transition right is really importa. As a kid we are taught that one of the critical things our country brought to the wor was a transfer of power. It has been peeful but ugly, but we need to make sure it is not just peaceful but also effective and that the handoff is fundamental. We focus on that and trying to bring information to government leaders around what is happening inside goverent, we have a best place to work ranki in the federal government. We train career leaders, we see that as the most important cohort in governmentunning well. We work to bring different parts of governmt together. The problems of today dont respect the historic boundaries of yesterday. Togethe working well congress and the executive working well together, the intergovernmental working well together and the public and private sector. Its a very interesting and i believe under focused on set of activities that we dond its important now. We have big problems and we need government working well solve them. Host before we get the calli nt to get your reactions to the words of riard nixon published in the new york times. The piec headlined nixon has some advice, in his memoir Richard Nixon wrote that he did not pu for a recount after the 1960 election despite accusations of voter fraud, historia debate whether or not that is true. A writer called the memoir and unreliableccount from an unreliable narrator. At leastixon talked a good game. These are the words of Richard Nixon. Wrote inesident nixon the 1960 election if he were to demand a recount the organization of the new administration and an orderly transfer of responsibilityrom old to new might be delayed for months. Th situation within the federal government wou be chaotic. Those in the old administrion would not know how to act or with what clear powers and responsibilities those appoint by john kennedy to positions in the new administration would have the same difficulty making plan to the bitterness that would be engendered by such aaneuver on my part what my would have done incculable and lasting damage throughout the country. I could think of no worse example for nations abroad who were trying to put preelectoral procedures into effect than that of the United States wrangling over the results oour president ial election and even suggesting that the presidency itself could be stolen by thieve at the ballot box. The wordof Richard Nixon on his on the 196election. A fantastic quote and a strong lesson for us today. We live in only a more dangerous world today that moves even faster than it did in 1960 by a large measure which then puts even a larger premium on the transition working well. There is such a diverse set of challenges we face as a country. They are so difficult to manage. We have no grace on this. Hard r it rht is so an incoming team and we need t make it as easy as posble. The only difference i wod have with the statement there is, i think you can pursue the transition planning and enable whatever litigation sategy that President Trumpants to pursue to move fward through the courts. They dont have to be in tension. What is clear is that the failure to allow a coordinated passing of the baton puts us at risk and we should not have that. So many important thin that could be disrupted, the biden team is doing great work but they need thaaccess to information. Fantastic quote and thank you for sharing with me. Host the words of President Trump from 10 minutes ago. Theonly one in the eyes of fake news media, i concede nothing, we have a long way to go. This is a rigged election we will win. Callers, marym lou in new jersey. Caller good morning, bill and mr. Stier. I would like to make a couple of comments. I would like to thank cspan for being one of the few Broadcasting Networks where we can get honest news. We really appreciate that. Stier, i take issue with some things you are talking about. You said something about the biden team was preparing for this since last spring. Does that mean that the biden team knew they were going to win this election . We are talking about a smooth transition. Caller from my recollection, there was no smooth transition from the Obama Administration to administration. As a matter of fact, everything humanly possible was done to disrupt the Trump Administration. Youre talking about the Biden Administration wanting peace and safe few for the american people. The safety for the american people. The democrats werent worried about peace and safety over the last several months when we had the rioting, the burning, the looting, the killing in various cities across the country. And finally, as far as transition goes, you are talking about the government transitioning. What youre not understanding is the trump people are a special group of people morally, legally and spiritually. And we have nothing in common with the biden people. They dont know what theyre going to be in for if over the next few weeks this election does not lean toward donald trump. Host several things there, well hear from max stier. Guest im so glad you raised that point about the early transition planning. Its interesting, because just as you say, historically most campaigns were very leery about doing early transition planning because they were worriedec abot being accused of celebrating early, measuring the drapes. And that really changed with a new law that gave support for early transitione planning preelection. And the First Campaign to take advantage of that law was actuallyta that of mitt romney o did an exceptional job of preelection transition planning. President trump and Hillary Clinton also did early preelection planning very, very well. And so the norm now is the right norm, which is you actual cant be ready to govern if you dont prepare for the possibility that you willpr actually win. And thats what preelection transition planning iss all about. In my view, its actually being responsible to make sure that if you are going to win, that you can actually govern effectively. Host doesnt also the Current Administration, the Trump Administration now or the Obama Administration previously, they also have offices within the government that are at least teams that are preparing for potential handoff of power, correct . Gue yes. So the law now requires that every agency identify a career official to lead ansition planning. Again, this is all occurring preelection. In the event that theres actually going to be a handoff of power. So, again, its like, you kno all kinds of things. If youre in a primary, you prepare for the possibility that youre going to get to the general. The reality is that if you dont prepare for the possibility of winning, then you wont be ready if you actually win, and thats true just as you say, bill, on the government side as well. Mow interestingly, President Trump has also needed to prepare for theossibility of a second term becse most people dont think about that as aransition but, in fact, it is. Second term president usually lose almost half of their most senior people, so they have to reset the government, they have to think about how they want to operate differently, how they what they learned from the first cycle to the second. So thatt was my first poi. The second that i would just respond on your comment is to saw that the, in fact, the obama team did a reall strong job of preping for the possibility of a trump or a clinton win. And they followed the model of the Bush Administration which really has created the Gold Standard of handoffs. And president bushol didhis because he recognize that our country was vulnerable ding a transition,hat there was a National Securit imperative to insure that thatandoff was done effectively. And head his own expience both in termsf the handoff from clinton to him and also husband experience with 9 11 that really his experience with 9 11 that really shaped his views around this. I think that the record books will show that president bush really put us on a different course in terms ofn incumbent president handing a off to a new president. Presidt obama tried to follow that course. President trump did a rlly good job of preelection transition planning and, bluntl the wheels came off the bus after the electio so whene toured Chris Christie fired chris chrise e and, more importantly, wn he pushed aside the preparation work that had been so good up until then. Host when did he fire chris chstie . Im trying to recall that in 2016. Guest that was the trd day after the election, he fired Chris Christie. As bad as that was, ultimately what was more damaging was the failure to really take advantage of all the work and the president people that had been put outl to insure an orderly transfer of power. And that really set him back. He was the slowest president in putting his people in place, he had a lot of missteps in terms of dealing with the government at the front end. And so roots of those problems really come out of his failed postelection transition planning. But he engaged in the same kind of preelection transition planning that the biden team did. So, again, just understand these are facts, and and you can draw different conclusions from them, but this is now the normal way and, in fact, the best way to be ready for the possibility that you will be president. Host lets hear from i cant think in chicago, democrats line. Go ahead. Caller yes, hi e there. I would have to aee with the previous caller. Thank you for giving us a platform for us to view o opinions. It is certainly a lot safer and a lot more productive than screaming as a a proteer to someone els whos not listening, for example. Okay. Neverthelessat, i would like to speakto some truths regarding seeds that have been planted in public months prior to the election. The current president had said that if the democrats should win, the onlway theyould do it is by fra. So i suspect that the president is knowingly playing the people like a fiddle because he can do that. So the protests and the looting in the streets are two separate incidences. If i understand crectly, businesses have lost souch money as asi result of having to close down andd the cid19 that when goods are stole then, they can be stolen, they cane written off as theft and reimbursed for tho items tt were stolen. So its a scam. Its an insurance scam, plain and simple. And there are two sepate incidences. They look for opportunities and people, in groups of people who are protestingo une cite these riots incite these riots so they can go in,teal these goods, and these businesses can write them off as stolen theft objects host thats ken in chicago. Any response there, max stier . Guest well, i kee coming back to that really wonderful quote y read earlier from president nixonot and how, you know, fundamental i is for us to have the mhinery of government and the machinery of our g eleions be trusted. You know, it is a stanford profsor and remarkable newer said you need thinker said you need three things for a successful democracy in todays world. Fyou need to have rulef law, you needo have accountability, and you need efftive govement. And the accouability piece is, obviously, what were seeing in the election itself, and the effective government is what transition is necsary for. D it worries me, honestly, that, you know, t basicrust in t processes of our elections and our government are coming under such scrutin and distrust. Scrutinys oka the trust piece worries me. We need to have shared rules, we need to be able to have a shared faith in our processes to make sure that our voices are heard andhat our government is responsive to the american people. And that stuff is baking down whic i, you know, so you asked me what i thi. I think president nixon had it right in the 1960 context to say thats really fundamental to our success as a nation,nd i hope we can ce together as a people to bring that back. Host as far as you know, the biden team, are they going ahead with vetting people that they want in their administration . And roughly how Many Political appointees will the new administration be responsible for . Guest so, yeah, i mean, a biden team, as i mentioned earlier, was up early, aggressively and smartly, and they have terrific, experienced people. And one of the most fundamental tasks they have ahead of them is what you describe, which is identifying, you know, terrific people to be leaders in our government. And there are historically 4,000 appointments that an administration makes, political appointments. And i cant help myself to say i think thats too many. Theres no other democracy that im aware of on the planet that has anywhere close to that. You know, if you look at Great Britain as another example, they get nervous when you Start Talking about tens of appointees, not thousands. And for good reason. The part of the problem with thatgo many number of political appointments means that you have, in essence, a very large group of shortterm leaders that take arg bunch of time to get io place and that turn over, frankly,y, before they can realy focus on the longterm needs of the government that theyre running. So its a big task, what im describing int terms of wanting few orer political appointees, is something that i will occur. No change foreseeable in the future. I think its important to note that the oath of office is to the constitution, not to any individual. And what we really need is people who are very capable and oriented to the job of taking care of the public good. And seee their job really as public stewards. But the biden team, to directly answer your question, is undoubtedly keenly focused on vetting folks right now and selecting amongst a very talented crew of people that want to come into the system. But they will need the cooperation ofte the incumbent government. They will need to have security clearances and work on financial agreements with the office of government ethics. They can do a lot of stuff on their own, but they will also need to engage at some point and qukly with the gernment. Host lets hear from alita in florida. Go ahead. Caller hi, good morni. Thank you, mr. Stier, we really, really appreciate you so, so much and thank you again, cspan. We really appreciate you. Id like to, first of all, say that the caller from new jersey, i totally disagree with her, absolutely. Theres a smooth transition between clinton, bush, obama. Theyre all still great friends even today. This president that we currently have now is the president of division. He goes against the grain. This is not trump country, this is america. And id like to saw as far ts far as, its so important, transitioning, were talking about security forta americans. What is the problem with him doing what is supposed to be done . Lets move on. Youve lost the election. Now, when he won the previous four years, he was on the tube every chance he could get and saying the most awful things, theyre losers, theyre poor sports. Hes pouting. He has no sense of decency. Since hes been president , this countrys gone back 30, 40 years. Theres sode much evil that has come out in the forefront. Its time to move on. Lets go ahead, lets transition. The president elect needs the daily briefing. Were talking about security for america. Its not about trump, its about america. Host thanks, alita. Max stier. Guest so no argument from me that this is about america. And i think we do need to, again, separate the real passions that exist in the political venues around, you know, republican, democrat, etc. , and recognize that there are shared interests that we have as a society. And again, our government is fundamentally the most important tool we have for collective action as a society to deal with our biggest problems that is the government and taxpayer resources behind it. So what everyone views as their political persuasion or, you know, what they think about what government should or shouldnt be doing, whatever it is doing, we should have it being done well. And ultimately, again, i think that moving forward with the transitionon preparation stuff does not diminish President Trumps abilityn to pursue any legal theory he might have about why theres a problem in the election process. We do need, however, to make sure that president elect biden, that changes fine, but the escurrent presumed president elt biden has the tools that he needs to start on day one. The metaphor for me is really the airplane pilot. Were all on this plane together, were all flying in turbulent conditions right now. We all should want to make sure that the pilot and crew are in place, well equipped, working well together on second one because our, you know, welfare is all at stake. And i think thats the fundamental issue thats at play right now in terms of allowing for the kind of information sharing and cooperation between the government and the transition, biden transitioner team. Thats really what g were talkg about here. Host next is ne in parkville, maryland, democrats ne. Caller hello, good mning, bill. Good morning, mr. Stier. How are you dng . Host good morning. Caller all right. I just wanted to touchn three points first, i want to begin with march ily lou. She mary lou. She sd that the trump team is special, but i think that they are special but not inhe way thathe imagines. And, max, i want to go back to 2000 when you said bush had a problem as f as the transion from the clinton team to himself . The Supreme Court decided in december. Now, on august the 6th, i believe, he had adb, president ial daily briefing. So im trying t figure out eightm months, and im kind of confused as to how that impacted his staffing. And then ill finishith few thursday point. My third point. Host why dont you give us your third point, max, and well get a response from max stier. Caller okay, no problem. My third point is this is my message to america. Trump wants you dead because you chose not to sport him. Thats everything support him. Thats everything in a nutshell, i believe. All of his actions from covid to protesting the election, making sure the transition isnt going smoothly. Host o. K. , nate. And,te max stier, focus on that. He mentioned the 2000 transfer, and i think hes referring to the briefing that reportedly george w. Bh got before the 9 11 attack. Guest so i think there are a couple of things that are at play. First of all, id love to join you in being called by my first name. Everyone calls you bill and me mr. Stier. And max is definitely preferable. So i think its a really interesting point that the caller makes here which is there are some things that the gsa ascertainment decision that would enable the Biden Transition Team to get access to certain resources are very clear. Access to the agency so they can go in and learn whats happening, the possessor if knell processing i mentioned. Then there are some things like the intelligence sharing, the president ial daily briefing. I think those things could even happen without a formal as certainment. Is that theine Current Administration has a father amount of discretion, and ien think they should move forwd with everything. They should have the ascertainment, but they should move forward in every way possible to make sure that the biden team is going to have what it needs assuming that they take charge on december 20th. I heard from the questioner about, well, they got some stuff, what really happened in terms of the shortened transition. Sh host yeah. Guest you were right, it wasnt until after the Supreme Court decision in december 14th, i think it was, the 13th maybe when it was decided and the 14th when gore gave his concession. Theres some argument whether it should have happened earlier, reasonable arguments that that could be the case. But the reality is that that meant, you know, president elect biden im sorry, president elect bush did not have, you know, lost some five plus weeks of what would have been part of his transition time. And they were actually quite active in transition planning. Theres a gentleman by the name of clay johnson, really fantastic guy, who was tapped very early on by thengovernor bush to think about transition planning. But there b was a pause that was created by the election dispute, and it slowed them down. And it did mean that they were not able to move with as much dispatch as they would have to get their people inn place. And thats when the 9 11 what the neb commission, again, a bipartisan, highly respected commission identified as a real problem point for the response to 9 11. And that is that truncated transition period in 2000 meant that the bush team was not as far in advance in terms of putting our National Security team in place at the time of the attack. And that caused problems. So having your Leadership Team in placeou really as fast as possible, to me, is probably the most fundamental, you know, responsibility of the incoming administration. A president is essential. The government is so large and complicated that getting the team, the fuller team in place and working well together really has to bee the goal and doing it very fast. And its hard. I mean, this comes back to this question of, you know, 4,000 political appointees, 1200 requiring senate confirmation. It is too onerous of a process really to get your team in place. We should have fewer senateconfirmed positions, i think fewer political appointees in general. We need to make thats process easier so it can run more smoothly in the best of circumstances, and we dont need tos make it worse. Its already an incredibly hard process, and delay just makes whats really difficult even harder. Host former National Security adviser to president obama susan rice writing ts morning trumps stalling rusks our security. In 2020, she writes, as the days tick by and mr. Trump shows no sign of starting a transition, the risks increase. Mr. Biden and his team have not been provided the daily Intelligence Briefings to which they are entitled. Biden Harris Agency review teams are constituted but have been denied access to every ement of the execuve branch. Vital exchanges of information and expertise that would help combat covid19 and jumpstart the economy remain stalled. Lets hear from vanessa in princeton junction, new jersey, on our republican line. Caller huh, good morning. Hi, good morning this is example of your guest is one miserable, corrupted politician whos trying t install fear in the nation. Somehow as fast as possible we should go and install new administration. First of all, thats very dangerous thght and its wron you calledt 9 11. Ll, i can until you it wasnt because of bush [inaudible and basically causing another war. [inaudible] the whole blame shod be on Clinton Administration. Also t try to install fear acrossvery legal reasoning is very dangerous. There is a reason why mr. Trump has right to go through all this Legal Process whaver he wants to do. S the right. He has the right. So to give access to the executive branch is actually not legal. I would appreciate if you take pride in your existence as corrupt politician and tell the truth. Ndamentalk to your wrong argument is the fact that democratic had machinery long time ago ago prepared. And i see manyeople that actually coming from swamp who used to be biden Obamas Administration naudible] lets not make mistake the [inaudible] and people are complety ready to do it. So i think this is really dangerou to talk le that and try to install new president as fast as possible because nobody in the whole world is [inaudible] in ameca now. Dont make me say its us causing 13ar, endle war [inaudible] montenegro with [inaudible] cancercausing host vanessa, im going to let you go there, certainly a lot on the table. Back to 2000 though, max stier, i think she kind of raised that up this. How much transition was actually happening between george w. Bush, between the Clinton Administration and the Bush Administration . How much h gotten under way . Guest well, so again, the bush team followed best practice. Clay johns was the heaof the preection or the transition end preparation process so that he actually started thinkingnd working on this aear before the election. And it was with, you know, good forethought that he did so. But that process got ierrupted from the point of the election until the gore concession, i think it was on dember 14th. So they lost a good chunk of time, really important time between the election and, you know the inauguration that they wodra have otherwise been automobile to push able t push forward aggressively. If i might, in terms of that last caller point, the argumentsnt to move president elect bid into office any earlier. The constitutions very clear it says its on january 20th that youve see a president being sworn in. Thessueee is assuming that he i going to be swo in on january 20th, do we want to see him and his team best prepared to run our government for all of us in am safer way. And so this is, again, not about all righting his movement into office acceleratg his movement into office, about unsuriing that hes prepared to do so. Its ao worth knowing, bill, you citedusan rices oped which i think is very strong, and you should look at the other company tt shes keeping right now; senator rubio, senator toomey, fmer president bush, karl rove. The list of republicans who are seriousminded, who have signed up to the notion that this is really vital that the transition act be occurring right now and the shared information hapning is large. Its a Bipartisan Group and for good reason. Again, President Trump can pursue his litigation remedyies, whatever he tnks is appropriate to do, and thats inpendent of the issue of the biden team getting access to resources they need if and when they actually take charge on january 20th. Sohis is not a partisan issue. Bipartisan. Every national secury figure, military, you know, that ive heardn this, theyre a all of the me view. This is sometng that should happen. Host in dition to their obvious role inn i confirming appointees i the senate, ds congress have any role in the president ial transition . Guest so youre exactly there are, inhe near term, the most Important Role that the senate willl play isheir advise and consent role where i mentioned earlier 10 of the 4,000 political appntees that need senate confirmation. And its really important tha the senate process good. I mean, they have t right to vote up and down. If tres someone that they think doesnt meethe qualification, they can are eject the but moving forward with dispatch throh the nominations and the incoming administrations sponsibility is to put forward nominees. But getting that done, you know, quickly is really important and haseen a source poi, a problem. I think from psident raw began to president tru rgan to President Trump weve seen confirmation time double, and thats a big issue theres no doubt that thats the most Important Role. I hope that they will, congress more broadly, revisit the question of how man political appointees we have, how many require senateonfirmation. I think weve leaed a lot about ways we can make the system work better, and im hoping that congress will really focus intently on that issue. We have whole reform agenda were proposing. s called the road map for renewal which is on our web site at, you know with, our public service. Org. Theres a lot, again, our government needs to be refreshed, andheres a lot that we can do better. Theres a lot of strong people in it, but w need to refresh the work force and a bunch of other things. Host lets see if we can get one more quick call from tammy, belfast, g maine. Go ahead, independent lewin. Caller good morning. Host morning. Caller i have a question on how its responsible and safe forue the united stes for joe biden to be talking to eight world leads already witut having National Security clearance, without bng sworn in and what not. And so how is the transition really sohe important for him wn hes already made decisions about howak the u. S. Is going to handle those countries . Host okay, tammy. Max stier. Guest so a really good question. It is Standard Practice for a president elect to be hang conversations with world leader and what is not Standard Practice ito have the president elect not have access to t state Department Resources to help coordinate those calls. So it is appropriate and normal for president elect biden to be having these conversations. He shod, and this is an example off resources hes been denied. He should be having the assistance of the state department folks who have been dealing with these World Leaders in the here and nowho understand w the classified word d Everything Else thatt is going o with them. Thats the right wayo do it. This administration should be, u know, coordinatin and cooperating in that way. But know that the wor leaders are reaching out to hill as well, and f understandinges not even getting all that my understanding is hes not geing all that information. That doesn help us, that hurts us. And the real issue is to make sure, again, this is seamless door nation. Thiss coordination. This is not about ptisanship. This is about the way our country is going to be able to deal wit important allies and adversaries acrs the world. You know, president elect biden has a lot of experiee here, but he still needs the assistance and engagement of the careerork force at the state department and elsewhere. Host max stier, president and ceo of the partnership for public service, talking about the transition process. Thanks for being with us once again on washington journal. Guest hey, my pleasure. Thank you. Were back with louisiana dash shah brown who is