Enter this world awake for justice. Again you can find all this on our website at schaumburg. Org. If you are watching from the festival website you can scroll to the bottom of this particular page in shop the featured book. You can shop the rest of the festival from the bookish things my schaumburg shop. You can navigate or you can check out the full schedule of events. And just to let you know in the screen that is in front of your coffee look up in front of you if youre not seeing the chats, the little sort of comments if you where, talking bubble should the expansion chat for you. An ill be joined by alexander who is a senior staff writer it columbia journalism review. Previously she was a reporter at the Village Voice and covered education for the project were to partnership between columbia university, columbia journeying ten Journalism School part shall be in conversation with wando small following will introduce one that there will be a reading. And then following the conversation we will have questions drawn from the audience. Please use the chat to submit your questions at any time for it will do our best to get to as many of them as possible. Just to let you know we are recording the program for the ipad we are the Schomburg Center we are a public archive. Q and the audience will not be part of the recording. Also please be mindful of her fellow audience members of the chat. And thank you again for tuning in. Please welcome alexandria as she introduces us to wando small floyd pizza mick thank you. Good afternoon everyone. I am so pleased to introduce our guests today. Wando small floyd. She is a veteran journalist, she began as a copy editor especially black women had newspapers heroes of the ranks being a Senior Editor at woke local in national including the Washington Post and usa today. From 2000 forton 2013 she was executive editor of the Montgomery Advertiser in montgomery, alabama purchased the former associate professor and chair of the Savannah State university in her hometown of savannah georgia. Throughout her career one has worked to better conditions and create pathways for black journalists. She served on the board of directors for the American Society of newspaper editors, landmark survey black journalists for the association of black journalists and cofounded the National Association of minority media executives. Everywhere she published her memoir coming full circle from jim crow to journalism which chronicled decadelong career in a country in industry that is at once drastically change and frustratingly the same bird one is going get us started by reading his soul trip short exit from reading from her book, thank you so much for joining us today. Switch to thank you so much for joining us its great to be here and work with you. I want to read a passage from a chapter called pathway to providence. Providence was the first newsroom i worked in the seven newsrooms. Overnight mention my at katherine, shoop racing is like a mother. Wando, wando, wake up you have a telegram. Aunt katherine interrupted a nap of taking one afternoon in December Covid 1969 when i was at home during christmas break from spelman college. I Western Union message delivered something that needed my attention. I telegram i said questioningly lifting my head from the pillow, i had never received a telegram. And i had no idea why someone would send one to me. What i did notice telegrams only two kinds of information. Very good, important good news and very important bad news. And our family and birthday grades were set and telegrams. I was born in july this was december. My telegram said congratulations, you have been selected a winner of a 700 newspaper internship scholarship. This award really made on the completion of the 1970 summer Workstudy Program this brought to previously preview have been assigned to the editing course at Temple University in philadelphia. Letters to follow. Merry christmas. So learn my internship assignment would be at the rhode island the place i had heard about never imagined i would live. He studied capitals in grade school i knew providence was far away. But much it mightve been in a netherworld as far as i was concerned. Three weeks at temple were arduous spurred by learned a lot about how to work copy. On the book copy, the first of the years of the wall street newspaper from the reminder be the program included rigorous instruction in editing basis. Basic head on writing, life newspaper organization and age design. Lead the program at temple and he was tough on us. It was one of those teachers that fill the personal responsibility to go to newsroom students could be competitive with newsroom editors. As a program at temple was ending, professor met oneonone with participants. In my meeting he said he knew i was prepared to do this work in providence. But he wanted me to it know i might be the only black person in the newsroom. I hope you are prepared for that, he said. I do not recall how i responded. I know i was scared to death but determined to be brave and do what was needed to be done to succeed in the internship. The providence newspaper, the morning journal in the afternoon bulletin at several interns in 1970. They introduced me to it other young women. Both white but we considered living together to share expenses. Ive never lived with white people before prethe burden of my childhood ingrained fear of white people was tolerable but as begin to appreciate the opportunity to learn about people who were different. The others were different were from new england. When i root call was a student they worked on dayshift for the morning paper. I scheduled was different and his roommates we hardly saw each other. Internships in those days did not pay much but together we will live in a five bedroom five bathroom house an upscale neighborhood not far from the Newspaper Office downtown. The house was owned by stockbroker and his family is set there summers are new by marthas vineyard. Since we do not see each other most days, things are pretty lonely in that big house. We are mostly home alone. But one day we adopted an adorable puppy. It was 1970 after all the or john lennon give peace a chance was popular. One afternoon i was walking pops and walk him, the woman whose name was gloria same as my mothers name. Glory was walking her ship to a little chinese breeze with a bow in his head to keep hair out of his eyes. Our pops was a lovable mutt of questionable heritage. Glorias should see was a pampered pet with pedigree papers to show for her cuteness. Glenn i stood for a moment talking about our dogs. Then she said, its too bad you have to walk the dog and take care of the children. That is when i realize that gloria assumed i was a nanny or maid for the family that lived in the house in her neighborhoo neighborhood. When i explained i was a College Student holding down a professional internship at the daily newspaper downtown, i could see she was embarrassed. She apologized we became friends over the summer as we met on afternoon walks with our dogs. I never told my remakes about my First Encounter with our neighbor and her fancy dog. But i could not wait to recount my story another should soon as mistaken as a nanny at the same time. Here i had come all this way not only the waning arab jim crow but far away from the south were discrimination was a part of everyday life. The woman i had just met immediately jump to the conclusion that because i was black i mustve been the servant for a white family. I was in new england. It was a place where i really saw people who looks like me. Most because i did not have a car that summer. And did not venture far for that presumably all white neighborhood were reliving her world worked downtown. I member writing my grandmother that summer telling her about my experience in rhode island. I saw a black person today wrote in one letter. I looked in the mirror. Thanks so much. Im so glad you chose that particular passage. You grew up at savannah which was mentioned as jim crow provided people with possible in all realms of life. In your book you write about the daily newspapers that your family subscribe to and read before you went off to college and got this internship. The morning news, the evening news, the Atlanta Journal contribution per hit other black outlets like the atlanta daily world which is a courier, jet magazine wonder if you could talk with us about how white newspapers covered black life in savannah and across the country and your memory in childhood versus how the blackbird what have been the most significant changes that you have seen or not seen since then . Guest sure, thank you for asking that question. And my younger days mainstream process weve seen mainstream not white press, did not come to the black community when it came to positive news. Anything that was news in our community had to be covered by the black press. So what we saw in our local daily newspaper or stories about crime, things were very negative about black people. Photographs of crime suspects and things that i think fostered serious difficult images of black people. In fact, when i was editor and a couple of my newsrooms, as we look back at the newspapers even in those commuters we saw cartoons on page one that had sample kind of cartoons that depicted black lives as if a joke on page one for readers of those newspapers. There is a small page in the savanna paper every week that was literally called news of an for the black community. It might have even said the Negro Community i dont remember. Is more than the positive movement so we did rely on the black press, not just the local black press but as you mentioned that papers from all over the country. Thats ray found out what was going on a black community. Especially as we approach the Civil Rights Movement. Host what role at the time the black lives has a longridge story history and it is one remember growing up in my house we got jet magazine and some of these daily newspapers though were kind of before my time for these were papers my grandparents read. And i wonder how significant what kind of roles to those papers play as sort of Community Leaders to include not just positive stories that looked at what was going on in our community. But also about black struggle part as you mentioned you came up through the event theres much strife. I wonder where these paper sort of revered in your neighborhood . In the city of savannah in your family . We love those newspapers but we cannot wait to get the news not only from our local papers but from papers around the country for that is how we found out what was going on. I will tell you one thing we learned about what was going on in the rest of the country when he think about paper shape from chicago, atlanta, pittsburgh and baltimore, people learn about Job Opportunities. That is how they would read about the Different Industries like the Auto Industry in the steel industry, this attorney black migration in the 50s an early part of the 60s were left were in some cases trying to get out of the south. Because there were no jobs and they did not pay much. They went to strive towards a middleclass life they were looking for those opportunities. Theyre hearing about these jobs and their family members were gone to other places before them. But they were able to read about it. Kristi Civil Rights Movement was heavily covered in the press because it was not covered in mainstream press. Done any studies about National News unlike cable is what halfhour National News every night. So considering a one story or not much more than that there is not much depth to learn about. I feel very fortunate i grew up in a family did subscribe to these newspapers. For those who are a little older than i am who wanted to start their careers in journalism, there were opportunities to do that and to learn from black newspapers like ebony and jet in essence as you mentioned. Thousand other opportunity is a perfect segue because mainstream outlets integrate more and more, Job Opportunities open up for black people. In 1968 they released a report im american prosperous for the absence of diversity that there is a quote underlying of Race Relations was in part two the reality that newspapers were staffed overwhelmingly but they were the ones that you need a story assigning the stories, going into places in writing the stories it end up in the pages of newspapers. After they were essentially failing which is imperative which is to inform the public. As you mention the stories were not showing up in any of these newspapers. Ten years later, as the American Society newspaper editors survey one of the recommendations they had made was to diversify the press corps. It was found that the fully two thirds of newsrooms had note zero people of color and their newsrooms on their staff. By 2000 this data for the newsroom might reach parity their work in the newsroom as a minimum. Were supposed to reach the goal by 2000 still not close to that youve worked in newspapers all over the country and still this failure remains the same i remember and try one or by your perspective wise the industries so routinely failed to correct this. Particularly as correcting these problems is tied up in our ability to do your jobs well. Sure. There are so much packed in there i do not even know where to begin. I did spend some time in my book talking about, writing about the commission report. The 2000 goal which later became the year 2020 goal. And just imagine when they set this number was 4. 5 . And for net people in newsrooms are mostly africanamericans at that time. You can only imagine 1968 when the report came out it was probably half that or less. One of the emphasis i guess she would call it for black people to actually get in mainstream newsroom after the report was also the Civil Rights Movement. The aftermath of the death of Martin Luther king when people were rioting and white it not might not sound familiar because of the assassination, a lot of newspapers start looking around we dont have anyone and we need someone to cover this. Its not that they did not have white people who thought they could cover, but they thought white people found there were hostility in the community. Especially photographers because it was so obvious because that cameras were bulky at that time so there grab their cameras or smash them. There is a big push to find people who were trained. One of the places they found people at was the black press. Writing and taking pictures and things like that. That predated me by a few years. A lot of the people i associate with in journalism today, who are a little bit older than i came to the black press. The sad part about the goal is first of all of their setting the anticipated the percentage of people of color would stay about the same. At that time i think 1978 was 11 . So you can just imagine is those years march on towards the year 2020, the number of people in color were rising. And at some point they decided to include wisely not only africanamericans, but hispanics and native americans and asian americans. So that population was increasing and no one anticipated that. And as on the board of the asme board we change the goal from 2020, from 2000 to 2020. I new at the time that was not going to happen. Because the population was changing. That is one of the main issues but as we look towards the country becoming a majority, minority majority there be more minorities in 2045 than white people. We certainly dont anticipate that is going to happen. As in the second thing i will say about that is in the early stages of this goal we really did not have that from the editors and the publishers resources of money to make that goal happen. These are all kinds of programs and to train people of color to make sure we had the pipeline. And especially during the 2008 recession over the loss of much money in the industry per in the first thing to go is diversity parts back into that point should move through your career as an editor in becoming is also executive at or unchecked editor at the Montgomery Advertiser. And also interacting with folks around the country and a bj. I mean how has the will to address this shifted . You mention when there are many troubles of which there are many in journalism, programs that are looking to increase the pipeline to get reporters and also to elevate reporters into editing and other leadership roles inside of their newsrooms once they are there, those are the programs they get cut. Everyone sort of says we are on the same page, we value this had nobody to do this. And decades go by and things have remained the same. Arch more or less will to actually address these things but would like this but there is no money for it. Guest every now then i hear about will tell mccartt out another program. That that goes away the mccartt out another and that goes away. I think the will is happening now after the death of george floyd. Go back when i was working at the Washington Post. It happens to be the editor at that time. Will looking for where we were at in the post and we are looking to bring these things in the attention of the management at the Washington Post. I said this to someone then. I think youre going to have to wait for the generation of bradley to retire or leave the newspaper business before received big shifts. This is not a generation that has us as a priority. Gerd journalism was always a priority for those newspapers. But not diversity. Until those folks did retire. New people came in and it did not shift enough. People came in and also those people were retiring that was upon us. I do see a shift now. Think i have hope after what we are seeing lately with the death of george floyd in so many others. Because people are paying attention to these issues. Not just the news but in the Corporate Structure overall. I hope it sticks. I hope people continue to do this. Im personally getting more calls from editors and Corporate Executives of major news company asking me to it have conversations virtually with their staff members, with their journalist with their executive executives. To tell some of the best practices of the programs you were a part of. People are really asking for advice. They are meeting in large part with groups of journalists on different venues to try to work this out. Im really hopeful the shift is there. Meanwhile, when i see more of his more gumption from people of color in newsrooms walking into these top offices and saying look, this is got to change but we cannot go on like this much longer. It does not just matter with the numbers pretty have to have the numbers but you also have to make sure you have the journalists who are covering meaningful stories they are not what we used to say earlier days get a rise discovering the black community or the metro that journalists have the chance to cover National News and interNational News. Until they are in decisionmaking positions. Its not as simple as just getting people in the door. And to that point, and your book you write about Washington Post and how you lack a mentor that could shepherd you in that direction towards being in the rooms of people who make the decisions and becoming a person who makes the decision yourself. I was at usa today found yourself in a position to enter the boardrooms become a Senior Editor yourself. Today, this year in particular black journalists working at all kinds of different outlets, newspaper and digital outlets on the country as you mentioned are internally approaching the masthead and say hey look somethings got to give. And the problems have moved just beyond representation. Beyond the numbers of how many black people are people of color work here. In looking at things like are there clear past leadership . Once youre in the door and said lead them to flounder. And so, i wonder through out the course of your career, what were you able to do once you got into the position of leadership to kind of push newsrooms in that direction . That is not just about hiring people, getting them in the door and forget all about it. Where is your advice for black editors and other newsroom managers were trying to do that today . Were pushing their leadership to do better. You mention when i was at the post i did not have a mentor. Im not even sure i needed a mentor not even sure i knew it was at the time. One of things i do try to talk to younger people about especially younger journalists these are for people not in journalism as well. How important it is to have a mentor. And how to find a mentor. How to identify people and how to be bold enough to call people. I people call me all the time because they heard about me. Some have read my book and find me on my website somehow. And called sandy a mentor. Im really trying to do this or that. Im always going to help. One thing about journalism, i think overall reach out we reac react. And i tried to tell young people, feel comfortable reaching out to journalists. I hope its that way in other industries. One of the best pieces of advice at a mentor gave to me was to become involved in organizations that have power in the industry. I chose the American Society of newspaper editors at that time, joined at 1989. When i got into that organization somebody else said to me the way you represent the organization is to become known as a committee worker. And so always try to tell young people when you are working whether tenured newsroom, your place of work in your neighborhood association, whatever it is you really have to find out what is the structure for moving up . On that Organization Means joining committees and then accepting, seven would ask me to it lead a committee. And not be afraid to lead. Not be afraid to ask questions. Is it led to committee was also working on the Program Committee which was one of the best things i ever did to learn what programming is all about. At that point i became exposed to so many people who were coming in to speak to the organization. Which had more than a thousand members at that time. Because we had president s, Vice President , members of congress. We had ceos, all kind of people would come and speak to us on the programming. So i had a chance to introduce some of them. And i wrote about that in my book. Especially the story, a funny story were introduce cornell west. I will let you folks read about that. Give this advice young people all the time pretty got to get involved. Gotta work hard and your newsroom. Work hard in your organization. But outside of your organization because the world is bigger than where you are now. And that networking is excellen excellent. Now what i tell managers is to consider people, take a chance on people. Someone took a chance on me at usa today, several times. And i did not have the experience for the job that they put in my hands. But i had someone there who is really willing to work with me. And also sit with me for training many, many times, all kinds of training opportunities out there. There was one where you be gone from home in chicago for physically two months. I had a small child and a husband. And i just told my manager, no i cannot go. I have a mother i have a young child for this is not something i could do. Before so i had a supportive husband. I would home and told him about the opportunity i could go to Northwestern University for a couple months he worked with me we put together a strong support system. So take the advice people are giving. And step out on faith that this will work out. The day i sent it to my program i was promoted to manager at usa today paid i want to back up a little bit theres an anecdote in your book that came to mind your first job was as a copy editor in providence as you mentioned. What in your book you write about having gotten a different job offer in atlanta you ultimately turned down. I wonder if you could tell that story about why you turn that job down. Sure. In addition to the fellowship that i got at the Dow Jones Newspaper Fund i was also a recipient of the fellowship sponsored by the atlanta newspapers. They paid part of my tuition and college my senior year. The purpose of this fellowship was to encourage journalism students who were from the south to stay in the south and practice journalism. And i believe i was the first africanamerican to get that a person of color to get that fellowship. I was very proud when i came back from my internship in providence where they offered me the chance to come back and work. And i thought know im never going back to providence. A senior year went over to the newspaper as my senior year in college pretty went to the newspaper with my resume and met with the editor of the atlantic constitution and journal. In told him that id had my internship i was editor at my College Newspaper i was editor my high school newspaper, that i had all this experience and i wanted to work in atlanta. For their newspaper. He looked at my resume we engage in a short conversation. He said you know what we would be very happy to have you come work here. Now remember this is 1971 when the civil rights was added height. People were thinking about bringing blacks into positions that not been in before. And he said we are very happy to hire you as a reporter. I said no, i was a copy editor in providence and i really like being an editor. I want to start as an editor of some kind. He said no, if we bring in as an editor and we have so much demand for the black community to hire journalists who are black. If we hire you on the copy desk which is pretty much inside the building job no one will know you are here. And we wont get any credit for having a black person because your name will not be in the paper when you write stories. And i decided i wanted to stand the path i was on and i went back to the storm, got on the phone and call the editor in providence and accepted their offer from the summer before. That is how it up going back to providence for a couple of years after i graduated. Is such the perfect example of a conversation that i have been having in journalism as a young person about concerns. Where newsroom leaders commitment to equity in the newsroom begins and ends. And about the role that appearances play. Wanting to have credit from the community for doing a thing as opposed to considering what the role of a copy editor and coverage might be. And the benefits of having a black copy editor to be regardless of anybody knows it or not. I wonder, throughout your career did you experience other instances where that came up with the problem of tokenism that you came up against that. If so how did you push through those . Expenses with myself and experience it with other black people who were in the newsroom. I think the best thing i was able to do when i left the Washington Post was go to work with a value diversity were some of the other papers i worked for did not value diversity. But the experience i would share with you was in miami. I was at the miami herald and i was on the copy desk but is also designing pages and editor of a section. They did one thing right they hired a lot of black people the same time. It definitely helped to have one person in the newsroom who see someone who looks like them. They hired a lot of people paired with a didnt do as they did not give editors any guidance or training about why these people are here. Why we should engage them in ways that we engage everyone else in terms of giving them assignments that fit their skills. Most of the people who came into the newsroom at that time it comes straight from graduate school, including columbia. Which is one of the best graduate schools as you know personally. And people become frustrated when they dont get those assignments there really qualified to do. And that happened so many times. I remember hiring a young man at usa today as a business reporte reporter. I actually met him in the program at northwestern for he worked for many years that new state other places. When he went into the Business Department he had an mba. He covered business for a long time. People are putting him down we dont know what youre doing why youre here. When in fact is probably the most qualified reporter in that section of the paper. We are talking maybe hundred people in that department. He was very frustrated what i have to do . Do i have to put my resume on the Bulletin Board to show them im qualified because nobody seems to be taking me seriously. So we didnt stay very long huge issue. Retention is a huge issue with people of color. They move around a lot but theres quite frankly a lot of people of color who are quite qualified to lead the business because they are not valued. It does not help to train people, erring them and, promise them a lot and then not given the kind of assignments there really qualified to do. In many cases more qualified than other people may be. Retention of such a big problem. Earlier this summer the black caucus of the Los Angeles Times guild, they did a campaign called blackett lap. They wrote a letter to the publisher sort of addressing problems that have existed and that. Theres also a social Media Campaign where people who had previously worked at the l. A. Time shared their story. What they had experienced while working there. It became very clear there was a problem with people getting the job. And then having negative experience in the newsroom. And ultimately leaving that newsroom so the paper loses the them. I know many people that i went to school with. They started and now they are gone. Having to address retention especially when the reality for so many black journalists working in black newsrooms is you meet editors it they are dizzy asked a great deal for the most part that people been forced to confront the of a massive problem. And the problem goes beyond staffing. It leaks into our coverage. With households of color. Feels like this is part of the advice now. But for black internally you run into issues when its time to go into the Conference Room and get everyone around the table. Here are the things that you need to change right now. And then suddenly what can we really do . Then we start to have problems. And it feels like that is a contributing factor why some folks might become disillusioned and leave the industry. They refuse to get it together. I think leadership is a big part of that. At by leadership i mean if you do not have someone at the table at the head of the table its been delivered about that or who looks like the people who are delivering that conversation. That has a huge impact on retention. It has a huge impact on recruitment on the front end. Has executive editor in montgomery and so many other places i cant tie the number of times people have said to me over the years and i document this in the book, i knew someone would be there to listen. Even if i had a disagreement with my sports editor, my Business Editor whatever that i knew i had someone i could talk to about it. To at least listen to my plates. Might not agree give me the advice i needed to overcome those kinds of things. The other thing i would say about retention is so many times we have had situations or people of color, especially in Community Journalism, smaller markets going through market theres a decent sized or Large Community of people of color. Nobodys listening to them because the kinds of stories that may be dumb because the copy editor may not understand that Community Just like they did not understand my community in savannah georgia. They didnt Pay Attention did not understand. When i got there rented a bus. I rented a bus to take every member of the staff in shifts on a tour of the black community. Because i found some peoplehood work there were either afraid to go to those communities, or did not think their stories in those communities. Or didnt think people mattered in those communities. But in those committees theres such rich stories. There are people that though they may be modest in means, they work as hard as anybody else. On they are striving to make life better for their children through education, through opportunity, kinds of opportunities. And there is history in those communities. There were historical artifacts in those communities. Whether they were in a museum s sign on the Street Corner a lot of people in the newsroom not even Pay Attention to. So having someone say wait a minute lets step back here lets go to those communities. Im going to help you. Im going to take you there right in my case i had a local historian to do the tour to talk about it. People came away amazed prato my gosh i did not know this about this community. That helped in the next and when there was a story that broke they knew someone they could call. They realize that some of the names would talk about on the tour of the churches and the business and the black businesses in some cases, they thought oh well, there is a bank, theres a black owned a bank in that community. Maybe when there is a story on banking we could call them instead of the white banker. Those are some ways it helps. But really takes having an understanding of how to make that shift and listening to those who are going into some of these offices who are for a change and im hopefully displease or being listen to because they were not being listened to and i was younger on some of the groups that would into offices to plea for those changes. Im hopeful now player places like the los angeles and other places people are listening to them. If i could say will more thing. There people think editor or Vice President of diversity and inclusion that seems to be the new catchword. Or title. I hope that all of those folks have some power. Because if they have those titles and have no power they reporting to someone who does not support them in the endeavors and the changes that theyre trying to make, if they are trying to make changes. And we wont get anywhere. I really hope theyre in a position to make changes. See what it brings us the idea of risk emma people in power are willing to risk to release the goals we all say we agree on. You know, what role did risk play in your career she became a top editor . And were in a position to make the decisions and make the calls. And as you were coming up did you find there were many folks, particularly white people. I think theres a lot of responsibility placed on white peoples shoulders to head the Diversity Inclusion communities to fix their newsroom. When the conditions are not sort of our responsibility, right . Either its positions that have been imposed on us. And i wonder, have we reached a point from your point of view in the industry where there are enough white people, where there are enough managers, top editors who are really willing to risk things personally whether reducing their own salary to adjust pay inequities that exist in the newsroom. People who are making risk to their own career in order to move it forward and actually realize this goal we have had for decades. Guest ive personally never met a manager whos willing to give upper part of their own salary. I have encounter, count myself in that, situations where were they news organizations are having financial problems they make sure that everyone comes to the table with a furlough for taking a week off during the year or Something Like that. That happens all the time. When the editor is in the mix of the top person in in the mix their salaries much larger than everybody elses salary so they get a little bit more. Proportionately but that does not happen very much. In terms of risk, think the weakest risk i took personally in my career was leaving the Washington Post and going to usa today. It was so new and unknown after the time period is three or four days per years after start up or even my own mother told me the time i told her i had the opportunity and the offer she said yes but you have a baby and a mortgage. You are in a secure place at the Washington Post. So taking risk it is important. Another risk that i took because i wanted to be in a position to make a difference i tell people this all the time. I have taken pay cuts so i could work at a smaller paper and have more of an impact on Community Journalism than working at a National Newspaper. That is another risk that can be taken. I dont know what risks will be taken in this climate. The people who have to take those risks are the people in power. And the people in power do not look for the most part like you and me. That is the challenge. What i left my last newsroom as executive director there were five black women who have the same job at the newspaper and when i left there were four. And then i think there were three a few years after i left. Now i see the numbers inching back up. And i have not done a scientific poll in this. I am guessing you count the number black email top editors on two hands, you be less than ten people. Probably not many more men the same thing. Lachman. We still have a long way to go to have people in place that can take that kind of risk, to feel secure enough in their jobs to be at the top level and make it happen. The new time support is run by a black man. A lot of people do not know that because its quite outside of new york. A lot of people outside of new york do not know that. There are other big papers with their africanamericans and other people of color who are running a newsroom. When you get to smaller papers you saw quite a few papers youve been in remarks that do not have any people of color on their whole staff. Some of them may be familyowne familyowned. Some quite frankly may have tried and if they are a Small Community im not sure i would go to idaho or places like that. There are a lot of places that do not have people who look like us on the staff. So who is taking over . It is a twoway street. You have to people willing to go also. Stu went so i wanted to jump to questions from the audience. And the question is, what do you make of new right wing outlets popping up that seem very white but also outside the neo conservative and neoliberal mainstream. I guess a lot of them been there for long time we have not paid attention because i think their audience is growing now that we know about them. I dont know what i could say about what i make of them. Theres nothing i can do about it. They are there and they have a larger audience than we anticipated. Without sounding too political, and depends on has the power to make something happen in sort of fall in line and that is a fearful thing right now. In terms of where we are. Host terms of media influence, i guess in light of that these new outlets that are sort of popping up. They are perhaps a little bit harder to categorize and the kind of binary camps that we used before. Have you seen a similar emergence of new black media that is sort of looking to occupy the influence in the black community that is perhaps outside of the traditional routes, i. E. The mainstream newspapers that have been integrated in some of the old black legacy press it around today . Guest we startup of this years ago and then national journalism. There are radio shows, stations and Radio Networks that are all about black people. But those are not new for the most part. I think radio in general, have gotten away from delivering, from creating content, put it that way. Creating the content. I find there a lot of podcast people are following. Certainly i am a fan of satellite radio there are so many urban view channels in progress channels and of so many shows that have information and interview people, especially in the black community. I would assume theyre the same kinds of things going on with other ethnic groups the asianamericans have shows in podcasts and things like that that they are listening to. I guess the thing that scares me the most is that media has become so divisive, divisive mena be the right word. So we are listening to things that are about who we are what we do. Youre less willing to listen or read about things that may help us change our minds. I think that is working against us quite a bit. Sue and i just went up for if there any other audience questions . And if not i will have one last question that will wrap us up pretty nicely. Okay. I will go ahead with my questio question. Which is what you understand now about journalism . About black life in america and life as a black journalist now that you wish you would have known at the beginning of your career. Guest wow. Well, for me personally coming out of the jim crow south i wish i would have been more confident, selfconfident. Because i know now that my skills are very good but my social skills were not good for that as a result of growing up in a community of people who look like me. That was pretty much by design because of the time we were in. I wish i would have become more multicultural. I wish i wouldve been willing to try new things and traveled earlier in my life it in my career. Think of into 46 states. Been to europe a couple of time times. Ive not done a lot of travel per think that helps enrich a lot of experience we have a better perspective on whats happening in the world. And we probably dont know about the world is much as we should per think the advice i give to my young self is to know more about the world outside of my neighborhood. Outside of my city and outside of my country. That would be a main thing i would do. I would save a little more money so i could take more risks and do more things even in journalism that i was not able to do when im striving and having a child. I would not give my career up for anything though. I was such a rich career and i have so many great experiences meeting people have never thought i would meet. Theres not a lot i would change but that such of this one thing i would change for a start as a copy at her and im really glad i did. I probably wouldve stayed as a copy editor is a couple of years as a reporter. When i was at the post i was applying for so many opportunities, one of the things that was said to me was well you have not been a reporter yet you cannot do this. Well because you havent been a reporter im not sure we can consider that. So for me personally i would run that for a while and go back to editing. Thats one thing a probably wouldve taken a risk on. Host wanted this has been a delight. Thank you so much for joining us. I hope everyone will go out and purchase your book, coming full circle from jim crow to journalism. To read about your experiences and heres to better history for all of us. Guest thank you so much. Hello welcome too the schaumburg Second Annual literary festival. Im so glad to be here with you all on this saturday afternoon. I am katie and education manager at the schaumburg center. Whether you are joining us for the first time or whether youre back from earlier this