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This keeps events or is going, its what keeps our doors, whether they are open. You know it is what keeps us getting your books is what is most important. So when you buy a book you keep your money here in st. Louis. And it helps us be a better bookstore. To thank you all so much for your support. I am shame molen i am the defense coordinator. The fantastic team here in st. Louis. Well be taking questions of the audience and be sure to type your questions at the comments will get to those at the end of the event. Be sure to publish on facebook to be notified of all of our fantastic events. From the bestselling author of lawrence in arabia, a gripping history of the early cold war predeceased covid battles against communism and the tragic consequences would still affect america in the world today. The end of world war ii the United States dollar into the world militarily, economically and in moral standing. Seen as a victor over tyrant in a champion of freedom it was clear too some that the soviet union was already executing a plan to expand, implement, revolution around the world. The american strategy relied on the response of the secret efforts of a newly formed cia. The quiet americans chronicle the four sides. Michael burke a charming former football star fallen on hard times, frank wisner the sign of a wealthy southern family. A sophisticated german jew who escaped the nancys. Edward a brilliant ad executive. The Covid Operations on the klobuchar trying to outwit the kgb in berlin. Plotting coups and directing wars against communist insurgents in asia. But again their efforts went awry. Thwarted by a combination of stupidity and ideological rigidity at the highest levels of the government and more profoundly the decision to abandon american ideals. By the mid 1850s the soviet union had a stranglehold on Eastern Europe. The u. S. Had begun its disastrous intervention in vietnam and america. The beacon of democracy was overthrowing it democratically elected government in earning the hatred of much of the world. All this culminated into an act of betrayal and cowardice that would lock the cold war into place for decades to come. Anderson brings to the telling of the story all of the narrative deep research skeptical eye and loudly pros make lawrence in arabia and Major International bestseller. The intro leading lives of these men is a common purpose of defending freedom of the ravages of the cold war led them to different fates. To equip the cia and spare stricken by the moral compromise they had to make with the duplicitous and destructive american site. Will be so heartbroken he would take his own life. The quiet americans is the story of these four members also the story of how the United States at the very pinnacle of its power managed to permanently damage its moral standing in the world. And patrick the authors say nothing says in this sweeping vivid beautifully observed a book, Scott Anderson unearths the devastating secret history of the United States lost during the cold war. By focusing on this twisty colorful lives of four legendary spies, anderson distills the larger geopolitical saga into an intimate story of flawed but talented men of the disease of empires. At of the inescapable moral hazard of american idealism and power. Is a hell of a book with themes about the unintended consequences of espionage, intervention that still resonates powerfully today. Scott anderson is the author of two novels and for works of nonfiction including lawrence of arabia and International Bestseller that was a finalist for the National Critic book circle award. In a New York Times notable book. As a correspondent he is a corresponding writer for the nearest times magazine. And tonight, Scott Anderson will be in conversation with julian santon. Julian is a senior features editor and has included publications with vanity fair, esquire and bloomberg. As the author of the upcoming Nonfiction Book madhouse at the end of the world, but an illfated 19th century antarctic expedition will be providing a link for that as wellin the comments pretty fun to preorder that you can too. I am so happy and thrilled to be able to walk and Scott Anderson and julian santon to reinstate today is the publication day which is a very exciting day for authors when they get to see their book and the wild for the first time. Self everyone at home and please help me in celebrating that by giving both scott and juliet a hearty round of applause wherever you are. Loud enough so we could all hear it. Thank you so much. Stomach thank you so much for having me in having us. And for everybody tuning in. Scott this is such a critical period of history or covering. In terms of geography and time in the couple decades youve covered so much goes on in that. You dealt with it well by focusing on four people who, why they are extremely influential or not household names. First of all, how did you settle on this approach . More importantly how did you settle on those poor guys . I was a product of the cold war. I grew up in east asia. Selfcreated indonesia. These were heavily militarized zones. Anticommunist they were. [inaudible] the sense of cold war as a real thing i kind of grew up with that. Id always wanted to explore that writing. And starting to do a little bit of research. I really came to the conclusion that so much of what was to come with that of the cold war almost 50 years, so much of what had become was set into place with world war ii in the mid 1950s. In 1944 fdr signed but world war p Connell Mcshane with the end of the empire. It was in america was going to be this harold of democracy. And we go 12 years on 1956, and now the United States is paying for the maintenance. In the not breeding democracy there overthrowing. So how did that happen that part of history . What also occurred to me was the kind of history like to write and read as the people on the front lines. Its not generals or statesmen sitting behind a desk. It is men and women who are moving up to the front lines. When it comes to the cold war with the flint frontline soldiers if you will or were stopped. Once the infiltrated each side, so i thought great. [laughter] i get to write about spies. But the process of finding thes these, i would love to found a kneejerk or. Unfortunately anytime. Im writing about all of the field operatives were old men. Two of the men, frank and edward were somewhat wellknown. The other to michael and peter not at all. So it took them a lot. I wanted to find people, big stuff had happened to them during this timeframe. They were also changed by it. And left a paper trail showing that change. We 25 Different Things to focus on. I ended up with these four. Its kind of the proverbial chest of letters in the attic. Peter is still live, he is 97 years old. He is the last surviving member of the cia of the early cold toward. And hes agreed to a whole series of interviews. Host speaking of paper trai trail, there were one challenge im sure you faces you are writing the history of an agency that is dedicated to secret deception. I assume that first of all and mustve been very hard to find people writing reliable stories at any length. And second of all, how does that, how does the cia they mustve had a hand in redacting what ever. You had a story but how you were to get unredacted with michael burke. In particular tells a little bit about that. Guest yes there is censorship. But fortunately the censorship tends to be fairly incompetent. I mean literally there may be a page that had been redacted by nature. Sometimes i can actually take out the name with the black sharpie that they had used. You could see letters when the name is been redacted. You can also triangulate information. This happens all the time. Two men are in a topsecret meeting and they both wrote memorandums of that meeting. You go to one of their member atoms in the almost all blacked out. The other barely touched. In the case of michael burke, he actually wrote an autobiography. And because he was in the cia had to go in front of the city i review board. They completely gutted his book. It was published all the best parts had been excised. But it was actually a cia official who said i happen to know theres the uncensored manuscript. At Boston University. And so sure enough they went to Boston University and there wasnt unredacted manuscript. So i could fill in all the details they had taken out. Host in the case of peter, and there were two others who struck me as people that could have made for a great character to focus on, phillips have been a great one. Anyway. The case of peter i believe you spoke to one of their 90yearold forget what his name was. Was it tough getting him to agree to talk about this . Or was he just sort of waiting for somebody to ask . Guest probably somewhere in between. Guys who are still around, they live under a lifelong, not bend but until the day they die there certain things they cant talk about legally. But what i really wanted to talk to peter about was what was it like . He was the station chief from the end of world war ii to 1952. So he had really been in ground zero of the confrontation during those years. So i wanted him to tell me essentially what was it like . What were the pressures he faced . He told me an amazing story. One thing is very clear about was how utterly clueless the americans were going up against the soviets who had deception and disinformation down to a fine art. The other thing i should add, again when peter showed up and west berlin to become the Covid Operations chief in 1945, there are thousands of soviets operating. Peter headed up a nine man unit and he just turned 24. The soviet model, he told the story 1956 they were running chains of informants all through east germany, eastern germany. And theyre all being run by former military german officers. And we talked about typical german arrogance. They were not concerned about how long these chains are running and the sub agent. And he talked about how one night one guy disappeared. With 24 or 48 hours everybody got grabbed. It was probably like 300 people. The kgb at them completely wired the whole time and they were just waiting. Even if some of the story, 67 years later he still gets emotional about it. All these people have vanished. Host it just seems that kgb throughout the period you talk about have their act together in a way that america never did. America was winging at the entire time. Where the kgb has almost get smart levels, sting operations. There are elaborate hoaxes. Has that always, is that still the case they have their ducks in a row . And whatever the inheritors of the kgb are . Were privy to all of this. I dont know, are we now living through the consequences for the continuation of the. You are talking about in terms of effectiveness in both agencies . Guest i think so. I think there are two things. I think you still see it today. Certainly we sought from the day and even before world war ii, the soviets understood that the next enemy was the western and the United States. We were absolutely going to be adversaries. You see that all the way down. The americans were very slow to understand that. Truman had just come in. And for a couple of really crucial years seek imagine the work Climate Alliance might be safe. These are two crucial live in china years in which the americans were demilitarized while the soviets were taking over all of Eastern Europe. So that is one thing. The second thing is the soviets, the things they would do in the field and deal espionage, to the western mind kind of unbelievable. When things have do quite and they did it very recently is theyll call eight dangle across to the west. Its essentially a false defective rated come across and say what two defects. And to build up his own, he will rat out other russian or soviet agents in the field. These are his colleagues. The guys get arrested and thrown into prison. And sometimes if it an important enough operation, one guy got rat out a dozen of his own colleagues. From the top. This is a coldblooded notice that, not that the cia could not be coldblooded in other ways. This is something that no western Intelligence Agency would conceive of. You dont sacrifice one of your men let alone 12 and order to help. Stuart you make that case of mentality stem from the pathology of one man, stalin. This whole idea of the paranoia to behave that way. And to go in and treat human life as expendable. Is that an exaggeration to say the kgb ml and the worthlessness of the soviets at the beginning is an extension of his own paranoia . Guest i think the figure of stalin absolutely adds to the feelings of paranoia and even panic. Already, they had nobody behind their iron curtain. To report what was going on there. I had no idea that in the 1950s the cia did not have a more anywhere near. Not even in the fifth layer of the ministry of agriculture. They had nobody. On top of that you got figures like stalin who essentially is a sociopath. And how do you ever predict what he is capable of doing next . Sounds kind of silly but have been facing the movie fargo, the geopolitics immediately after world war ii come into my head. Its basically a story of a gardenvariety crime planned of a crate where no one is supposed to get hurt. But the sociopaths is thrown into the middle of it. And all hell breaks loose. And i really think is so much of trying to figure out what was coming next and the aftermath of world war ii revolves around this utterly unpredictable character. She went one area where it seems like the cia has some success and the soviets didnt is far as i can tell did not be behind him was psychological warfare. First of all is that correct they were not doing on the levels of the americans . And second of all tell me about fortune and these tory. Guest he is one of the fourth followed pretty is operating in asia. He is an ad executive before the war. And he came out to asia at a time when a lot of times insurgencies were just starting up. And you know he had this very simple concept if you want to win of the populace you have to give the population of government to leave it in a state in the system. In place like the philippines. The country has been ruled for decades by very corrupt oligarchy. Kind of the same things have happened now. And his idea is we can reform the government. Confines of it he is to rob the country. As far as the actual fighting about the insurgency unity of the soldiers out of their barracks spacing as a force thats good. Actually bring and harvest. Not singlehandedly he had a huge role in the philippines. Hes so successful that by 1964 when vietnam was started the cia and famously the cia director said this to the thing thats in the book. Sweet goes out there actually tries. I do comes close to being successful. Like he did in the philippines were a kind of handpicked a president to come in. He handpicked a new Prime Minister in vietnam. And he was kind of visit whisper and hide defeat communist high for me barack or c. I got so big in vietnam the siam ideas got swept away by this huge military bureaucracy coming in. So 19624 he headed up the First American military mission to south vietnam. He and 12 other guys. Theyre the only game in town for a few years. Then of course eventually they were followed by 3 million more. Is a sort of near intervention what could have been an intervention in vietnam and how that might have let out crises. He mentioned several other that could have diffuse the cold war. Tell us about those and these moments where things could have gone much better, could have gone differently and ended more prints back on mentioned to mention roosevelt in 1934. What world war ii is supposed to bring in part of democracy. He dies three weeks before the end of the war. Truman comes in, truman is in way over his head. He first meets stalin any famously has the first meeting with stalin and that summer of 1945. Honest but he is smart as hell but i can deal with it. He does not have the selfassuredness. Hes pretty much wrong on all accounts. I think that is receiving the moment or fdrs death when it came was in this kind of awful fork in the road. He wouldve known how to deal with stalin he wouldve done the usurping of Eastern Europe in a way were truman to my mind was kind of a deer in the headlight headlights. The other great turning point was have the book on the hungarian revolution. There is a spontaneous revolution people rose up from the streets the military join this revolution. And there was this moment work crews jeff you know what, we have to let hungary go. We cannot do this militarily. So the tanks were leaving. And literally the very next day, november 1, 1956, over the course of the night cruise chest changes his mind. You know if the americans were do anything to help hungary and revolutionaries they lived at it by now. Theyre not coming. With hungary go, we are going to lose. Sony to try and go back in. The really incredibly sad thing with the Eisenhower Administration have been talking was the lack of communism. And encouraging people to rebel. And finally it is happened. All the sudden they dont yes we cant do anything. Until they were crushed. All of the guys started out with such good intentions, such noble living up to this americans living the morally right upstanding postwar savior. And then all that went pearshaped after a while. They ended up participating in a pretty horrible things. There packing up dictators and letting down legitimate movements. Did you end up judging the men that you write about . Guest no. I dont. I mean i see it. Its very easy to do that. Its very easy to look at 70 years and stand in judgment of people. I think also what happened to almost all of these that i write about is its very gradual. Its a gradual process. Right after the war they start working with former german intelligence officers. Theyre the only one who know whats happening and then it becomes people who are members of nancy party. We go on and on and on. Working with bona fide not the war heroes. It did not start out that way. It started out as a gradual process. And the other thing is i think to all of these men they sought the cold war, and havent every other day, just cataclysmic stuff was happening all of the time. Visceral world war ii veterans. To comment to these concepts think they all felt the end kind of justifies the memes. Theres all for that i read about were political and certainly very socially they all reach a point where yes it would be wonderful if we could foster that. But things are crashing so fast for we do not have the luxury of time. Define the allies. So i tried to not pass judgment on them. I think all four of them were obtained by the moral you know decisions they had to make. One thing you talk is what is going on the home front in america. The reaction to the red scare. And you know the perpetual enemy of the cia and the fbi. It was assisting mccarthy in his witchhunt it ended up just leading nowhere. You do mention that moment was the origin of a schism into American Society that we are still seeing now. You make the case that mightve been democrats and republicans before but where you stood on this question of for example the existence of a fifth column of soviet spies in america. We stood on that question determines basically whether your kids and their kids will be a liberal or conservative. Yes its very true. Its basically the way people, it is a first great schism in this country, domestically. It is the red scare where people if you bought into this idea of the vast communist conspiracy and its riddled with red spies, your politics when a certain weight. And if you thought that joe mccarthy was full of it and he was a puppet essentially history document was actually the case. And it went another way. Politics are largely inherited. You tend to be fairly close in general. So from that schism in the 1950s, it was called red and blue back then. You can kind of march along in time. The people are the same people whose children were against the vietnam war. His grandchildren were against the iraq war. Who are probably voting democratic in this election. In the opposite is drawn the other side. This is really the great schism in american politics, started in this theory. Its direction what i wrote about. Both frank was number one man the cap was the grand wizard who is in charge of Covid Operations all over the world. Theres a time look like he was going to be the next cia director. Right at the moment it looked like he was going to become the director, J Edgar Hoover had another round of investigations on this relationship he had. This was a returning pattern in his life. He was investigated by the fbi. And in peters case is kind of an amazing story. He had seen so many of these infiltration operations and dropping them behind the lines of the iron curtain buried almost all these were disasters the kb kgbs were ready as soon as they landed on the ground. They reached a point where they start scrubbing the operations. The success rate was zero. The more operations he canceled, the more the field officers who were sponsoring the programs and one of them to go forward, the more they got angry at peter. And wondered why he kept operating. So then peter was investigated for being a kgb mole. So these guys along with whats happening in front of them in the field. Theres always someone behind looking over their shoulder. That they could be investigated as unamerican. But the irony is that despite all that they miss some of the spies that were certainly operating on our shores. For example he has the most notorious one was the britt we trusted the most i guess. Tells about him. Guest time and again. What hoover would do it was kind of funny. He was a genuine spy in 1945. That this woman career came in and confessed too. And she named all of these name names. And theres two and 50 special agents on the case. In 1945 the fbi still had a dress code. They had a real dress code back then. That suits, ties, short hair. They are all whites. All men. So 250 kaiser dumped on the streets tracking bona fide soviet spies. These guys realize theyre being tailed in about two seconds. And they stopped all this i got no convictions out of them at all. Hoover was constantly chasing the wrong people. And that was a pattern you see going right through 1970s. Host to get back to the failed attempts at nationbuilding and interference, you mentioned land sale and what happened in the philippines. Would you say there were any sort of successful american interventions and politics or nationbuilding around the world . scott the hard part, im not sure if the american then became the democracy from getting the pressure with the americans putting them. And it the sort of organic rebellion. I think you could probably find a few around the world. But what kind of worked against this is all of the places where they infuriated the local people. Certainly, the true awareness or of 25 years where they were playing off of that war. And we certainly didnt do a great job in a run. And were still living with today. Julian one last question. If you were today one of the four characters, who would first be about. Scott that is a great question. It was a dramatic story. I think the one who committed suicide. That was a tragedy. Michael burke is kind of company, he is this wonderful, i described him as a james bond extraordinarily handsome guy. When he was running the program at the time in submenu, offering out around as a cover he was putting itself is a film producer. And that cafes during the day and at his office at night. [inaudible]. Is a fabulous character. Julian the tragedies that were there. I think that it is such a, all of the stories sort of weave together. In fact there so any interactions between them. Its just perfectly fits together. Its fantastic book. I wish this kept going. I wish we could write the history of the 20th century in the right out parts of it. Scott . [inaudible]. Julian we had world war i. And even cost vote for decades. It only eight left. Scott yes eight. Thank you. Julian no problem and keep writing. I want to remind the audience that if you have any questions please retype those up at the comments and we can ask those to scott or julian as well. And reminder the book is available for sale in your support is what keeps these open but i want to ask a question. You did mention the continuation of where we are now. I was wondering if there were any pages in the playbook from that time the maybe should not be the playbook silk but you think may be. Like do you know anything more about some of the more kind of things are happening there. The could be encouraged. Scott so much the cia. But the russians. I think that with this amazing thing watching how much now with russia, but how much they have taken up in the playbook. With the old kgb in the disinformation and the perception of that the americans bombarded with. One thing that i will say is when i talked to the people in that cia, there bit annoyed with the trump administration. But you kind of understand, that what really is based on russia as an added for serial relations. Everybody i do both talk to his book deeply concerned as to why our presidency supports kind of answer your question. In a roundabout way. Thus to my mind is what really jumped out at me. A parallel to one of his writing about. Julian i listened to the interview a pressure today. And if it didnt, i wanted the story about the woman getting killed. I forget where you were. So is wondering if you can tell that story as well here. Sure. When i was in el salvador oh and 1984. Im just starting out a journalist and by 1984, the war primarily in watching mollen and salvador. In those countries that you had to buy the right wings by the way. But they were being supported by the reagan administration. And basically almost everybody being killed in these wars were socially part of the reagan. [inaudible]. Somehow the squad in with the government was two separate entities greatest so i was in el salvador in 1984. And i was walking down the boulevard in downtown cell about el salvador. It is happened to be the only person walking on the sidewalk. In about a hundred feet away, the body of a young woman turned out on the sidewalk. She had been shot in the head. It was as if the body had been pulled out and then pull back into traffic. And before i got there, is a matter of ten seconds, i moved her again, her body in a one point there was a gun in the other two grafted the body and they threw it in the van. And then they drive off. It was very apparent so the death squad, they dropped this body. In ten seconds later the military comes along and picks her up. And this was happening. There was something about that incident that really struck me. I remember thinking how is it that in the American Government can support another government that kills people in broad daylight. How has this idea the anti communism that even Something Like this, we are essentially. [inaudible]. Where this could happen. For for me this was a real turning point. And then got me to thinking about the past. The revolution with the American Government how they pulled off. [inaudible]. Host in that time. , would you rather have been a spy or a writer. Julian i would rather rather be one of the any writers. Seems like you just played the game long enough to have a lifetime worth of materials. Scott thats a good answer. I agree with you on that. Like in my 20s and 30s. [inaudible]. Host i wonder if you watch the americans and how realistic you thought that it was that there are russian spies living in the u. S. Scott i actually didnt watch it. And so any times when you know is i had mentioned in fresno or whatever, i was working on spoke. They would ask me and i watch the americans. And so often, i deliberately did not. Like when i was writing lawrence of arabia. People would say how any times have you seen the film. I had seen the film once. But i didnt see the film the ultimate wrote the book. I saw it again afterwards. But from what i understand of the series, this kind of based on a true story that happened about 15 years ago where the russian spies came in the United States and the attempt to live a normal life. But they were all with the called illegals. The fake names. There were spies in different ways. Having not seen the show. I dont know what happens. But if theres minus and betrayals and simplicity. The seams cut part for the court. With the russian secret service. It. Host like are there movies or tv or anything like that then you have seen, even documentaries that you feel accurately portray. In thinking like argo. You feel like that, bullets or anything like that that you feel portrays spy life, realistically. Scott julian mentioned another movie. I think its closest to really capturing a spies life was really like. Apparently, is not james bond. Most of the time. Its a lonely thing. Everybody i spoke to actually, you are living a lie. This role life. And very lonely. Your friends, are not with you. As british series on the think on spies. I think it is really quite brilliant. I think those final rule is so complicated and there somebody quadruple twist in real life. Thank you so really hard to capture the full nature of it. And then putting in a movie. I think trying to think of another one that ive seen the couldve portrayed spies. When i would recommend another. Host i i lead three lives is recommended. In all the same, i lead three lives it was back in the early 60s maybe. So do we have any other questions from the audience or julian do you have another question that you might want to ask. Julian i do want to second that recommendation. Especially for me the george smiley, and the character from the movie. But youre right, sort of an intentionally leads in conspicuous lives is the opposite of glamour. But you compare that michael works, when given the budget to spend lavishly and living a big life. And dining and by day and then plotting by night. Scott that is right. And sometimes it creates and especially true like that in this. And the big historical reasons for this, bottom also fascinated by. [inaudible]. I am fascinated by people who are able to set change through their own course of personality. And the fact is the cia, the early cia, theyre allowed to see what works. In a way that was not true with the cia back in 1960. It is really changed quite dramatically. Sosa. Before the things become your offer ties. Decisions are all made by guys behind the desk rated this what i am fascinated by. But when you mentioned the brooks, i wrote about him. He moved to new york and he wanted to be a writer. This was after world war ii. They was penniless. Before the story before. He so down on his luck that at one point, his things had been stolen. He gets a call out of the blue from a guy who was have a conversation with him. He must offer him a job. But he wont identify with agency he is with. In fact, the coordination the unit of the covert operation of the ca is the name and its an incredibly boring name. It was classified for 25 years, his name, you could enter the name out loud. So with these two guys to come up with from washington and met him in new york. They were sitting around at one point he said will what are you going to do for work. And he didnt know. In the communist country in the southwest corner, right above greece and south western europe. So these two guys go, we want you to go start a revolution every diverse was like, hes broke. So inside he is thinking, where do i sign. He has to come up with a cover story and what most of the refugees, there in rome, some like a job. Sorry around lots of money. Is looking at as a man of leisure. They thought what kind of a story can i come up with. Hangout it cafes a lot. This whole italian movie scene in rome. So in a. In a certain point, and is certain point, and im not actually producing anything. People are going to start getting suspicious. What do you actually do. And as it turned out, it was an italian film people were interested. All they want to do is talk about themselves. They never asked him questions. I love that story. Scott they were even producing anything. Who knows maybe they work. Maybe they were just sitting around and talking about it. So scott, a different scott, and your sources have to clear anything that they chose to tell you in the cia sensors or have the statute of limitations run its course. And i think this is from a previous conversation. Scott no. No, i people i talked with our mostly retired. Even some of the stuff some were classified and some were ridiculous. And other Government Agencies than a founder of the years. It. [inaudible]. Everything topsecret of everything. Everything, as a matter of national security. I think theres a point where they discussed that. He describes this scene where he is in berlin. And eisenhowers secretary of state and the year before, is been these riots. [inaudible]. And people have been protesting. And they came in with machine guns and mowed them down carbonate so stressed really quickly. So a year later, hes in berlin and he meets him and he said, i would like you to create a disturbance in east berlin. And basically what he is asking for is a repeat of what had happened before. And to keep people from getting machinegunned in the streets. This was the secretary of the United States. And he says, will what purpose is this. [inaudible]. He said he was embarrassed to say. So it was incredibly coldblooded. So that story, and burke had in his autobiography, they concluded or excellentl absolutn of that published version of the book. So now, this is something that happened in 1964. So basically, you kind of protecting the reputation of the secretary of state who died 16 years ago. With the point. How is that national security. Dont get me started on talking about this. The fact. Host unless anyone has i think quick question. Want to thank you both so much for doing this event. Tell julian that we get to see you in st. Louis. Hopefully maybe in real person. For your book because that would be really exciting. I know that a lot of people, we have a lot of fans expedition type of books. Scott if the vaccine is done before may 4th, i will be there. Other than that there may not be much of an audience. Host well i may be seeing you in a bubble. Thank you both so much. And congratulations on the book. And for the audience, the book is available for sale as of today. Yay. Thank you so much. Scott thank you. Julian thank you. Host have a good night everyone and we will see you later. Book tv on cspan2 has top Nonfiction Books and authors every weekend. Saturday at 1 00 p. M. Eastern, the recent Schomburg Center literary festival. In mahogany brown on the life and work of the late author activists audrey ford presented to a oh 5 00 p. M. , author and Princeton University professor on his book begin again. And then at 11 00 p. M. Eastern, and the essential scalia, u. S. Court of appeals judge for the sixth circuit and former law clerk to Justice Scalia talks about the late supreme courts writings. Sunday, 1 00 p. M. Eastern, more from the Schomburg Center literary festival. Coming full circle is the book and from jim crow to journalism. And it recalls her journalism career. And it to p. M. Eastern, patrice, when they call you on her life, activism in the beginnings of black lives matter movement. And 9 00 p. M. Eastern on afterwards, the Washington PostPulitzer Prize winning book critic offers his thoughts and the volume of books written about donald trump and his presidency. And for rethinking. A brief intellectual history of the trump era. He is interviewed by book review editor. Watch book tv, this weekend on cspan2. Youre watching book tv on cspan2. Every weekend