Afterwards is a a weekly interw program with relevant guest hosts anything top nonfiction authors about their latest work. All afterwards programs are available as podcasts. Reverend sharpton i dont want to start this conversation about your book by quoting something you wrote towards the end of your book which i think its a great jumping off point for this conversation pick you write i tell everyone the hardest job of being a preacher is to eulogize a life that someone who did nothing. My friends it is hardest to eulogize the lifeblood of the country who did nothing and then political and its a so i beg of you, give me something to work with. When your time comes understand before the family as they prepare to take you to god, let there be Something Worthy come something of merit that you did for your fellow man that helped to lift them. The name of your book as we all know is rise up. Talk more about that. Why it is imperative completely its imperative for people to give folks like you and do for the rest of us something to eulogize, to look up to. Guest i think the definition of ones existence is what they do in life, at the end of life. The only thing that will matter is what you did beyond your own particular just making a living and having a home and having material things. But what was the value of your existence . Did it change anything . It continue anything . What was the significance . I think people really dont think about that. What brought that the mind, i did the eulogy for Michael Jackson was the biggest pop star of this time, and when we were coming out of cemetery that night after i did the final eulogy at his burial, a wellknown artist that i wont name said to me, reverend, you really moved me in your eulogy to michael. If i go first i want you to do one for me like that. I looked at him and said, you have got to give me something to work with. Michael broke records in terms of drawing people to his concerts and records he sold and some humanitarian work he did. This particular artist had a hot record at one time but never really did anything. I think people never really think about all of us at some point is going to die. What statement did our life make . And i think that is all dependent on on the times in wh he lived and the challenges that you faced, whether youve met those challenges in a in a bror societal context or not, and i think people often dont think theres one thing about making a living, theres another thing about making a life that was worth living. Host in reading her book, its several books in in one to my mind. On the one hand, it could be read as may be hes going to run for elected office again because you talk about specific policies and issues that are facing the country and what you think should be done. Then on the other hand, its a memoir. You read your personal story through all of the chapters and we get to find out bits and pieces because youve written of the books were your life factors more prominently but we get to see who you are, where you came from and how it fits with the times were in. Its also a bit of a howto book when it comes to the advice you give activists. Why did you decide in writing rise up to dig your book in that way . We see obama that in many ways continued the tradition of continuing the fight for Civil Liberties and civil rights, and Inclusive Society but it was weather was africanamericans, women or are lgbtq or people ow income levels. And on the trump level we saw the reverse of that, and exclusionary policy when it came to blacks and gain to women come when it came to immigrants, lgbtq. I wanted to challenge people on both rows, which one of this country will choose. And if they decided to choose a road that i chose which was more in the tradition that creator of barack obama, here are some practical ways to do it. I wanted people to know that i came to these conclusions because i have done certain things in life and was instructed to me. I really think we are at a crossroads. I think that this country has got to choose one way or another, and theres been this constant battle since the founding of the country. And i think as we are now in the 21st century we have to make a real hard decision. I want people to know whether they agree with me or not, the road i chose not, how i came to those conclusions. And, therefore, this is the conclusion they need to make, but whatever decision you make, you dont have to do it my way. You may do it and a small context, and be in your home, they been your neighborhood, maybe in your church or bingo club but at what he practically get active. I wanted to do all that in one book because i wanted to make people think, make people committed and then went to make a commitment people always say, what do i do . I cant lead a march. I can do something. Everybody can do something and give them ways of doing that. Host that is the one thing i didnt see coming, when i got to the part i didnt see it coming and in the advice that you give having known you and covered you for 30 years to say oh, actually, yes, i see that. He literally practices what he literally preaches i want to bring you to the beginning of the book. Because you do not spare anyone, not the president , not liberals, not the Republican Party. I want to start with this group of people who you have dubbed latte liberals. Youve been talking about it a lot. Before your book came out, but talk about latte liberals here who are they and why are they so problematic within the Democratic Party, the progressive wing of the Democratic Party . Guest i think that the latte liberals is those that are these armchair kind of that always want to set the tone, set the policy, set what we are going but never get their hands dirty, never get involved. They have assigned themselves to leadership but they are not leaving anyone. They are not on the ground. So in the last decade we had every battle in the Civil Rights Era from Trayvon Martin to george floyd, and we always had latte liberals that would interpret for us what the movement ought to be doing but they were not on the ground trying to deal with how people felt, how people that were angry, how they would react. People that were angry on the other side, how they would react. How you deal with people that want to do something that did know what to do, they would sit back sipping lattes having discussions about great thoughts but never put anything into action. Those to me seem to be very much an obstacle, because what they see a rise and what they proselytize a network functionally. Its easy to sit back in a living room or parlor and sip a latte or sit up in an editorial room or in the studio and spout great wisdom. If youre not on the ground dealing with the people who are hurt and angry or dealing with people on the other side of the barricade that are just as adamant in their beliefs, and a lot of things you have to do practically is based on being in action. One of the things ive always been is involved. I talk about some of that involvement. You may think a lot of that is because youre moving and reacting in real time, to invest in real people. Im dealing with, if im dealing with a case of racial violence or police violence, im dealing with the victim, the victim samba, the immediate community, the reaction. These are people who are not activists or politically up to the last situation that we may interpret as this is the politics of the time. They are not in to do with a real matter. Ill deal with that matter is a plot of context was is going on in the social order is what you have to learn how to deal with. A latte liberals doesnt have to deal with that. If im dealing with the mother of the Police Brutality victim, i have got to deal with her pain, i have to deal with the reaction. I have to deal with what she wants done or not done in the name of the victim that they were the mother of. A latte liberals never talks to mother, doesnt know that that mother is as concerned about how am i going to vary my child, the cost of it. They may not of been injured. How am i dealing with a broken family that may not come together . All of that, at a latte liberal would be judgmental but never active. They have become in my judgment just as much as an impediment as those on the other side because they are so intellectual that they are not useful when one of the things you also say is they are more interested in purity, impulsive purity and it actually get anything done. Guest they seem to have that class of people, that group of people, rigid this, that, heres my program. If youre not with those programs then all of a sudden youre in, incorrect. Youre not useful. I might agree with eight of the points but two of the points i dont feel functionally works for the people i tried to work with and im trying to help serve. Then they dismissed anything else and is purity test i think is what has cost a lot of movement forward. Its politics, for example. They would give a purity test to a Hillary Clinton or a joe biden, they may disagree with both of them but i felt the overall direction was worthy of support based on who was opposing them. If you say its my way, you have to check off all of my tin boxes to get to the tenpoint list, if you dont do that then i will oppose you. It is serving the opposition to all of us rather than getting something done. When youre you are dealing wil pain, real issues with people on the ground sometime checked work with people that you may have some disagreement on some points but the overall point is going to help position where you want to position people toward upanddown the right road. Host you write Something Else in your book about the latte liberals that want you to expand on. Youre right, a latte liberal made me well but its lack of empathy understanding of the basic inequalities that go handinhand hand in hand with bigotry, racism and economic disparity make them suspected anyone struggling to get a foothold in the american dream. I would go so far says that latte liberals had a better sense of these issues and their black and brown immigrant brothers, it would be no need for someone like me. I wrote in the margins when i read that, i wrote bernie critique . Talk more about that. Guest i think what i was saying was that the people that are in black and brown communities, and in some workingclass and even poor white communities, and in the lgbtq community, visit people that are living with a lot of latte liberals are reading about. So theyre dealing with how they can analyze the pain without expressing the pain, and expressing the reaction to the pain and expressing the outrage. When i go to a scene like george floyd when the family called me, im standing there on the corner where he literally died, narrating his own death on video, put an e on. Guest . Im thinking about the human suffering this man had put a knee on his neck. The law is applicable but whos going to express the Inhumane Treatment . Who is going to express the outrage of people watching a man dying . They are so caught up in their analysis and fitting it into their part of the time, that they miss the actual facts. This is a human being, somebodys father, somebodys brother, somebodys son that laid there and was killed with eight minutes and 46 seconds. By the time they get through their analysis they are rejected because its like you dont feel my pain. Someone like me expresses the pain and the outrage because when i look at A George Floyd or at trayvon or an eric garner, i say that couldve been the and it crosses my life journey. It was me. Im talking about someone talk about a situation that ive had to live in, and they never get there which is why they appear useless. Those of us that have the courage and ability to express that pain become necessary, because at first and foremost someone in that predicament want someone to understand i am hurting, this is not fair, this is not right, i am being treated wrong. And it emanates very well in expression those three brilliant sisters then, black lives matter first, act like i matter. Im not some object to be analyzed. Im something that ought to be regarded, something that ought to be respected and, therefore, to be treated this way. Now we can get to the social formula that you want or legal kind of analysis that you want to get you, but first you must certify and confirm you understand that i am being violated as a person. Host i want to come back to that in the second because there was something he wrote in the book that surprised me. You mentioned Trayvon Martin. You mentioned eric garner the been countless of the victims of Fatal Police Violence or for jamaica violence. Ahmaud arbery comes to mind. Money. You wrote in the book that i think was when he went comes to mind. When he went to minneapolis to see the site where george floyd was killed under the knee of Police Officer, thats got to you. Correct me if im wrong, i think you said it broke you. Why of all the things youve done over all of these decades, what was it about that particular circumstance, that particular victim, that particular location or city that moved you or affected you that way . First of all, when i got the call, ben crump, the attorney called and said the family would like to be involved and he said, would you go to minneapolis and kind to stand up on this issue . I told him, absolutely. I called eric garner his mother and said im going to minneapolis. One of our supporters is going to give us a private plane to go. Would you go with the . Because was in the middle of the pandemic. None of us were flying. There were very few flights at that time, and i knew she was concerned as all of us were about going out, particularly traveling during covid19. Covid19. She said im already packed. So we got on this private plane went to minneapolis. We land, we go as at saigon foe last 35 years to the scene. But when we pulled up in the middle of this community and then we walked over, we met with some of the local activists at a church that was diagonal to the corner that george was killed on. When we walked up and i look at this curb where this man blade and a look at the stores that was there, and i thought about this lady who walked by and videotaped this man laying there in the gutter. It was right off the curb. In broad daylight with this knee on his neck. It just hit me, how vicious was of this . And what a way to die. This man was laying in the gutter begging for his life in broad daylight with people walking by. No one could stop this cop and the other two policemen standing there aiding in this mans life being taken. It just overwhelmed me. I said in the book, when you lose the sensitivity of the human life and the value of it, you ought not be an activist because if you dont feel something, if its just another scene and another situation that this is your next speech, then i think you are ineffective. It really bothered me. George floyd brought home to me the viciousness, the insensitivity, the ruthlessness some people have towards human life. At what point in eight minutes and 46 seconds does your humanity came in that this is a human being, even if you thought he was doing something wrong . This is a human being begging for his life. And its the humanity and the officer never kicked in, then something outrageous about that to me. That is why when i did the eulogy at the end of the eulogy and everybody stood up for eight minutes of 46 seconds because i dont think people understood how long a time that was. People told me later, people who watched on television, that after two or three minutes they were tired of standing. Let alone press your knee and somebodys neck. Wait a minute, this is a human being. Somebodys child that im squeezing the life out of, coming facetoface with that at that corn was overwhelming to me. Host the other thing about the eight minutes and 46 seconds is the fact that the Police Officer had his hands in his pockets. It was in broad daylight on a city street and he was seemingly nonchalant about the tragedy guest nonchalant, didnt matter. Later when i found out when he was calling for his mother and i told ben crump what i would come back to minneapolis a few days later to do the funeral, i said, he said the family wants to meet you because i talked to them on the phone and his brother and i talked and he did my television show. I said i want to meet his mother. Ben crump said his mother died to what you mean his mother died . He was calling for his mother. He said that was what was so strange that he was calling for his mother. It almost cheered me up because he was calling for someone that he had to know wasnt there but it was like he didnt have anyone else to call. It was like calling for food probably called for all his life. Life. And as you know of someone who has is company for 30 years, my mother was i came out of a singleparent home. I know that feeling. I think it also brought it all back to me, the emotions and the funeral, because i know what t is to call for a mother. Because nobody else would help, my mother was there and i felt that is what george had. Host as the son of a single mom as well, that was the thing that got me. Thats your pursuit of last resort when youre calling for your mom, theres nowhere else to turn to. As a result of the killing of george floyd, we have seen i cant remember an incident that created this much outrage. National protests almost overnight in cities big and small, protesting the killing of the span and have watched, as you said, for eight minutes and 46 seconds. One of the things that i noticed lots of africanamericans noticed was the complexion of these protests. You have led many protests where it is just you and the africanamericans who are marching behind you. This time in the protests, and a lot of places the majority of the protesters have been white. This is a multipark question, but what do you give me your view about that, about white americans rallying to support africanamericans, something weve been protesting and ringing the bell and screaming about for generations. Guest i was absolutely impressed with the fact that so many whites literally came out, and not just gave some removed sympathy, but became part of e movement, and in many cases as you said there were more of them than us in many cities. And i said, maybe were getting through this time. Maybe this is the spark that will wake up a lot of the country, regardless of their race because of the outrage of this kind of scene. And i think part of this is, in an ironic ironic way, jonathans happened during the pandemic where everyone was locked down and there was no sports come so you watched the news. Most americans watching news hoping it was a something has broken through and we can go out tomorrow. People were housed in and had to watch this tip over and over again, and to think it just exploded into this movement because people said oh, no, i cant see. They cannot see the eric garner tick maybe because you could watch the ballgame or go out to the local pub or you are things to do. But you couldnt go anywhere when george floyd happen and you couldnt watch the ballgame. There was no ballgame and you had to watch this. I think the more they saw it, double outraged the god and just as where people started marching on their own. I said maybe this time, maybe, because im still skeptical it because again i went in early. Maybe this will come through but it kept going and kept going and it broke up everywhere. It was Something Like the able to see what youve been trying to set up on time, and maybe sometimes saying it in ways that was not appealing to people because of expressing not only the rage of those im speaking for in terms of the victims families or in terms of my organization, but im speaking about all pain and it, and maybe this will be more i feel blessed think any of us could ever articulate. They came to me and and i wrote about this in the book, it came full circle to me when the first time i went for the vigilance in minneapolis which we just discussed, i went over to the Shopping Mall area and was talking to some of those that were marching and remember i walked into the site as doing a live interview with msnbc. When i finished i get ready to walk away, and somebody grabbed the sleeve of my suit jacket here i turned and looked, and a look down, it was a young white girl, she looked maybe 12 years old. I braced myself because ive been in march is where people would scream racial names at this for say what are you doing here . Are you causing trouble . Or something that was hostile. I braced myself waiting for hostility, this little girl said no justice, no peace. Thats what i said to myself, things may really be different this time. Maybe they will hear us. We have got to sustain this to change, for real. Host maybe things are changing, but, if this is what i love your phrasing of latte liberals because im wondering if the latte liberals are now taking over some of these protests. Im thinking of that because the president of the naacp chapter in portland, oregon, wrote an oped for my paper the Washington Post oped page basically expressing concern about what is now being called the gentrification of the black lives Matter Movement and how you had white protesters putting themselves now at the center of the action, so much so that the message of the protests is being lost. When they come with their agenda and their points of this is what we want but when im talking to those victims and those that live in this environment all of their lives say no, this is what we want and they speak the truth and i think thats not all of the whites that join in, they are very much lets do this together, some came within the lead attitude and i know what the best thing is in the social landscape is like and i know what the political agenda would be, had they actually kidnapped the movement from those that were the victims, they dont even talk to those that were there and if you say no thats not what were about, they dismiss that, youre all just grassroots or trench people or oldschool were too young, who put them in charge of a movement that was already going that warned these things would happen. I think thats what i really wanted to say in this book and take them on because im like wait a minute we need allies, we do not need people to come and decide for us what it is we want to be, it reminds me when he went through a whole story when Frederick Douglass escaped slavery and finally got to new england with the Abolitionist Movement and when he would get up and speak, wait a minute we dont need you to be articulate, we want you to be there as a perk of being a slave, we will do the talking but we could not talk for ourselves, we are not looking for better slave masters, were looking to be free. We spent a lot of time talking about liberals in the progressive wing in the democrat party, the talk about republicans, you write in your book, the democrats, you write a lot about the Democratic Party feelings towards the black community but the democrats feeling of the black community does not vindicate the republicans, far from it, just because youre in an abusive relationship does not mean you leave to submit yourself to a. Republicans talk all the time about how africanamericans predict the black republicans have been known to say the black democrats are on the democratic plantation. Talk more about why the republicans arent a good deal for africanamericans either or maybe even worse. The problem with the Democratic Party is for the most part they say the right things but will not give the same kind of priority to those issues to make them, the problem with the republicans if they opposed everything that is happened, just like a, anyone that comes out of the hood like i did, pimps exploit people that have been abused, they treat you so bad, you ought to be with me, ill treat you much better, and they sweettalk you into submission so they can use you, they are not trained to affirm your dignity, your worth, affirm your status of a human being or someone that could think, they are trained to manipulate you being misused so they can misuse you more for their own benefit, thats a republican, they have you on a plantation, come over here where we can kill the civil rights, affirmative action, all of that, we are better than you, we can treat you better and the bitterness is to lose you into do shoe to be for their agenda which is diametrically opposed everything, the democrats challenge is to make the results match the rhetoric, the republicans, they result in their rhetoric is antithetical to her interest. Are you surprised by how quickly republicans have dumped everything they told us, by us i mean america in the world, how quickly they dump those principles in order to support President Trump. It is mindboggling that a party that has certain standards in certain conduct just overnight, it was not overnight, it appeared almost in a matter of focus it became a colt revealing a colt of personality where behavior did not matter, inconsistency didnt matter, lies did not matter, this was the party that they claimed to be the evangelical followers, the strict, although that went out the window and whatever this man said became their rule of conduct. It is mindboggling, no one could ever may need believe that these people that were bible thumping, going to church on sunday, righteous people in their own mind so they must apply a lot of what was said in church but now they went to that with dealing with someone who would openly lie, openly defy Health Experts in the middle of a pandemic, take different positions from one hour to the next and they would submit to all of that without question and get in line, you have not even seen a major figure emerged to the Republican Party to challenge him, they all got in line, maybe one day or another day every once in a while that romney they say will vote another way but those are longs periods of time with big and between and i cannot believe these people that were the socalled righteous of the people of honor in all of that come to a man who theyve gotta check the twitter pages, the twitter threads every hour to see what they believe in based on the impulses of a man who believes in nothing but himself. This is a great segue into talking about President Trump and the way you write about them, the beginning, the middle and someone at the end because your stories in some ways are parallel and i think even rights that you lead parallel lives to get him to talk about him and your experiences with him, i dont know if you had a chance to read Stuart Stevens book, it was a lot how the Republican Party became donald trump and he writes this to your point about evangelicals believing all these things and yes they support the president , to understand how white evangelicals can embrace donald trump, consider him the ultimate mega church preacher, the congregation has been tradition to accept leaders who are laundered fraud live extravagant lifestyles far above their own means. Does that sound about right . That sounds about right and that is donald trump, donald trump would put his name on a branding contract at best and he had a glitzy lifestyle that was really full of financial danger and bankruptcy, he lived largerthanlife with the reality of his businesses was one that you would teach in a Business School not to practice the way that he did, he was exactly that andy always was, i know donald trump 35 years, adversarial most times and most times as you know because you were in new york long period of time, he was a democrat he donated to freddie for rare, latino campaign, congress and reagan gave money, twice had he tried to defriend you if that was who is empowered, i dont believe donald trump reads in anything but the advancement of donald trump, those experiences were down through the years, i remember in the 70s, i was just a young activist and they had repeated claims of Racial Discrimination in his real estate buildings that he owned or managed, they were found by the justice department, charged with that and they had to make a settlement and then a few years later when he went to Atlantic City and wanted to bring major attraction there, mike tyson was a heavyweight champion and he wanted him to fight in the Atlantic City because he had exclusive rights of whatever price would be in the ms. America contest and he and don king partnered up and i think because the local city council was black and i had a strong president among some in the community, don king wanted us to make peace because i had been antitrump on the discrimination suits, we stop talking and this is when he became nicer and he was always looking for the edge or what he was going to get done, then he sits all the way back with central park and i remember he was surprised during the central park because he brought the ads calling for the execution and he was why are they marching on me, i was nice to them, sitting a ringside knowing somebody socially means you are going to stand by silently what he calls is institution to be innocent and later proven to be innocent, i was right on that then he steps all the way back with blood aism and i came out against that, he would do what he felt ever worked for him at the time, that is why as time went on i said not only is this man an opportunist, but this man is a racist why give them the benefit of the doubt, you cant automatically call people racist but if you are comfortable in calling black and brown people to be executed for something that was clear to a lot of us that did not happen most of new yorkers were say they were guilty because they had foreign confession, a lot of people are saying when it was found that they were innocent, all the way now youve gone to claim falsely and i knew he was saying falsely that the president and the United States was not bored and not real american, this is us against them mentality, i said you cannot become double with that crowd unless deep down inside you believe that, thats what i said, this man is the biggest in a racist and i talk about that in the book, ironically when i started getting a lot on television that was a leading set up by Michael Cohen remove true friend which why are you on television beating me down, i said its racist, its absolutely us against them and we argued in his office for 45 minutes and finally agreed to disagree, i knew on the elevator he was going to try to distort the meeting so i got on my show and talked about the meeting and of course he tried to tweet that al sharpton apologized for what he had been saying. That meeting that you had with trump arranged by Michael Cohen, what was the first time that you had interactions with trump were met with trump, you right in the beginning of the book about how after trump won election, he called you and wanted you to come to trump tower and meet with him and if memory serves, you said no. He called me about 30 days around the time after the election and i had been on that morning talking about him and he called me out of the Clear Blue Sky i was in a Board Meeting and i looked down and i see this number and i did not answer and then it called right back, i did not recognize his number and i picked up and i said im in a Board Meeting i cannot talk and before i could hang the phone up again, before i said would you hold on for the president , he left. So i look and i step outside and i said yes and he comes on i watched you, you are right and look at me now anyone on and he said i want you to come maralago and we need to talk it meet and you will find that you can work with me and i said i am not coming doing a photo walk, im not doing that i dont believe youre gonna do the things that i believe in and i still am absolutely outraged. Al, you know me i know you we can talk and i would not go and i refuse to meet with him and im not met with him sense, he has reached out several times, the only time ive spoken was at the beginning of the coronavirus pandemic, i was concerned and they were not testing the homeless in the incarcerated and i called the white house and i was doing my radio show in talking about it and i said im going to put in that i called the president i called the white house and i left the lesson i was concerned about protecting about those were incarcerated because they cannot social distance they are in jail and i was concerned about the homeless because thats all you would see in the streets of new york is Homeless People and everybody else lockedin, to my surprise three hours later he called me back and i said what my concerns were and he says i hear you im not making any commitments but i hear you and i explained why i felt that you got to do this because the human being they cant socially distance in jail and Homeless People dont have the facility to go get tested. All right will follow up, when a catcher show your kinda hard on me but youre over there and he raised a derogatory statement about msnbc and thats only time he and i have talked since hes been president. But i am absolutely convinced that donald trump is a bigot, thats who he is, hes comfortable with it and he is unapologetic about it. One of the other meetings that you write about when you bump into each other, one of the anniversaries, the 40th anniversary of snl and sarah palin was there on the red carpet in the two of you talked and he grabbed you in a grip and pulled you in close, smiling. This was after the meeting, Michael Cohen meeting. It was after that and i had gone down the red carpet and they did the 40th anniversary and as im going to my seat i see trump and hes sitting there and i said okay this is going to be interesting because id been pounding on them since that meeting and he leaned over he was sitting on the front row of the section and he leaned over the railing and i stopped him and he grabbed me and a grip and he looked at me and said youve got to do it you gotta do and i gotta do what i gotta do and thats when i knew he was committed that he was going to use this bigoted line and whatever else to go all the way where he was going politically and he was not formally running but he was going to run for president and i say hes duggan and now i say all right, will do what we gotta do and i walked onto my seat and that was it. The time that we have remaining to talk about you and what of you read about yourself in the book, one of the things i found interesting was the advice you got from Coretta Scott king as she pulled you aside and set you down which he thought was going to be a nice conversation but it was a whole lot more than that, wasnt it. The context is as you know but many viewers may not, i started in the north, i was raised in brooklyn so i was always a huge admirer of doctor king, i was 13 years old of the new york chapter of his organization so i always wanted to be close with the king family they were movement royalty and i started working in my 20s with Martin Luther king the third, we were two or three years apart and he got me and his mother together and he convinced her in the late 90s to come to the convention and she agreed that year and i went up to get her to come down and she had a regal presence, she said sit on a minute and i was thinking she started saying explained to me what you did in this case, explain what you did in this movement, explain this, why did you say this, why did you use this language and i would start explaining and she said you come out in this tradition we dont use those kinds of words, we may have these feelings but we dont say things that can be misinterpreted. But i said mrs. King and i would try to explain and rationalize and she would not buy any of my rationalizing and she finally leaned forward in her chair and said dont you understand words have power and martin is sitting there by and she really said to me if you are going to help you and martin in your generation continue this movement you have got to not only be right, youve got to act right, youve got to say right and guard your tongue because your speaking for more than yourself, your speaking for tradition that we are trying to bring what is right to this country, the thing that my husband and i use and shes talking about doctor king was to save americas soul and weve got to try to be true in our own soul, i grew up in a time where they still would use straps, no one got through to me like mrs. King, this is colorado scott king, that day i chided to be careful with my language and understand, sometimes i would still be angry and i could almost hear in my head words have power, are you going to continue this tradition and i started a whole journey of selfdiscipline because of mrs. King and i write about in the book and she was never given the credit she shouldve been given as the coleader of the movement with her husband. As i said at the beginning of the conversation about your book, the last part of the book is advice to activists, want to be activist but also young activist coming up in the little bit of the time that we have left, one line that you wrote is left out of me for selfawareness, it lastly, this is particular difficult, its important to do a vanity test every once in a while speaking personally sometimes my vanity out ran my sanity and i had to check myself. I think what i was saying sometimes you can get so caught up in the publicity and the fame you go back and Everybody Knows youre doing good that you Start Playing to the evening news rather than praying to making sure the issue is moving forwa forward, all of us have egos we would not be in the public light but when your ego out runs your agenda, then you are losing your effectiveness and thats when i had to start checking myself and my saying this to get a sound bite that i know will make the 6 00 oclock news or in my saying this to get the laws change and change a situation and to express what the people are feeling and needed to be said and that is the advice i give a a lot of young activist, its all right to be good at attracting media but dont do it for that reason, let that be the memes not getting on the evening news is not the aim and objective, it is using the evening news if you can get it to put a message out there that can lead to real change. Thats why you did, youve done saturday night live twi twice. Correct i did it once and opened another time and ive done a couple of skits. Thats the reason why you did it, it was giving the message a bigger platform. I did it when they called me and invited me too host and everyone on my staff said dont do that, you dont want to come off as a clown and i said yeah but i also want people to know that i can laugh at myself and still operate on the platform, they always just want to pinpoint in stereotype you as angry black man and i wanted america to understand i know how to laugh and sing and dance i did the james brown dance but i still believed in these and ended up coming off very well. You also write in terms of your vanity test at time that you said no to doing Television Even when more money was offered to you and you still said no and that was you turned down an offer to be on the apprenticed, why did you say no to that . Donald trump, he was going to come on and be on the apprenticed i said no, there is no redeeming value, there is no getting issues out but no redeeming value and im not just hostile, this is playing to donald trump or whatever, so i said no, they called back again and talk to rachel who handled the press for me for the last 25 years and she said he wont do it, finally donald trump called me himself twice, al youve got to do this, will give you more than the other contestants and i would not do it because i felt there was no value, it wouldve been great for my vanities and one of the hottest shows on television, i would not do and i also turned on dancing with the stars. You were offered dancing with the stars. I was offered twice dancing with the stars and i dont see any value while theyre shooting people in the street for me too be running around on stage dancing was somebody. You are a preacher but also you are an anchorman so we have probably less than two minutes left, for someone to pick up your book, rise up, what is the number one message you want them to take away from this book. The number one message, we are at a crossroads in this country on which direction were going to go, a direction that started many years ago, decades ago that was capsulize in the 60s with martin king and Lyndon Johnson to open up a Great Society to everyone, not one that is symbolized, not by donald trump of trying to Close Society and make it for the rich, the white and the male, you need to decide which road you want to make the help of the country go and rise up and actively help push the country on the right road, i share some experiences and some policies and i share some real ways that you at whatever level with the comfort of your own home can rise up and help put the nation, i really believe we are in a dangerous and precarious time and if we dont choose the right road we could see this country go back into some zone that it will be difficult to recover from, its time for everybody wherever they are to choose the right road into rise up and help make it happen. In your book you tackle whole lot of issues, environmental justice, environmental racism, masculinity, the relationship between Africanamerican Community and lgbtq, intersection ali, it is all here in your book, rise up confronting a country at the crossroads, by michael eric dyson, my old friend and colleague reverend al sharpton, thank you very, very much for coming. The only thing about being your old friend i cant bring up how i keep getting older than you the longer we know each other i cant find a way for you to catch up. It aint ever going to happen. Thank you very much. This program is available as a podcast, all after words programs can be viewed on our website at booktv. Org. You are watching the tv on cspan2 every week and with the latest nonfiction books and authors, cspan2 created by americas Television Company as a Public Service and brought to you today by your television provider. Tonight on book tv and primetime history professor looks at black financial innovation between 1888 in 1930 and its impact on u. S. Capitalism. Biographer david recalls the life of eleanor roosevelt, the wall street journal discusses how the conservative movement have evolved since the reagan era and then every error of our 20th anniversary indepth program, that all starts at 7 0r Program Guide or visit booktv. Org for more information. I remember something that brings tears to my eyes and i hope it wont do it now, on the seventh of december, the eighth of