New book we should have seen it coming. I am curious so lets just start with my personal favorite which is the first meeting between donald trump and steve bannon who would become a very influential political strategist and his world where he explains to trump hes thinking from running for president he cannot do it as a traditional republican and describe the scene. Yes. Thank you for having me. It made no sense but you have to remember donald trump did not just come out out of the blue he talked for years running for president but he wasnt quite sure he knew he was he is identity sometimes independent sometimes democrat it in a looked at Ross Perot Reform Party at one point but at 2012 he was getting serious. David about she a conservative activist, hardline was a friend of donald trump said he decided to talk to him about running for president and he took his friend steve bannon to new york to a meeting at trump tower to talk about the possibility he runs as the outsider how would he do it . David sits down and says this is the way even as a traditional reagan republican thats almost real republicans ran at that point and steve bannon says something different. That will not we want will not work anymore you have to run as our populace like pat buchanan and ross perot and says there is a new populist movement in the country. Donald trump looked at steve bannon and he says youre right thats lame popular rest and he got the terminology mangled but he said hes right it has to be as a popular rest to make it popular and all about him and then of course he doesnt decide to run in 2012 for four years later thats exactly what he does and in the meantime between 2012 and 2016 he starts to about that populist message were a lot of starting points for the trump love you one revolutions. It really is from the very beginning. Very much. He doesnt have an ideology i interviewed Newt Gingrich a couple times and he is fascinating with a lot of insights into this. There is a fouryear period of the conservative revolution from reagan and 79 when he wants from president to Donald Trumps arrival of where we are today so gingrich puts his sights on that. And he says he is not a conservative. He is anti liberal and he thinks a lot of that liberal speaking is nonsense doesnt have a philosophy he doesnt read the National Review which is the bible for modernday conservativism. He is an instinct player and it is about him that is fine with the supporters of one of the things we learned and 2016 you have to be a traditional conservative or even how the ideology at this point political history its as important as what you are for. What makes this different from other political books it is with an autobiographical thread even with the title we should have seen it coming. How did you come up with this title and what we were attempting to do . That was not my plan you are a journalist to think about something in the first person is exceptional and uncomfortable but when i got into the project it was where did donald trump come from . I got very interested in the starting point which i decided was 1979 with the carter presidency collapsing he gives a speech and throws up his hands and says marianne terrible trouble and then the country is prepared to return to Ronald Reagan and that began a for a decade. Of conservative influence. So the conservative movement through the for the year. Was the most interesting and perhaps the most powerful Political Movement of the time. So i decided that was the story i would tell how it rose to prominence and power and is somehow involved taking donald trump to be the standardbearer by 2016. Talking with my editor at random house he said that is the work of your career . That is true. I covered the washington journal in 1980 and following the story ever since the editor of random house said you should put yourself in the book you missed a lot of this you should tell us what it was like to be there. Thats how that came about. It wasnt my idea but once i accepted the idea seemed like a good way to insert occasionally to say i saw the convention and thats what it felt like or interviewed clinton at that point and that is what it sounded like i hope its not too intrusive i hope to humanize the story a little better but it is not a natural or a comfortable place for a journalist to land. Lets talk about 1980. Ronald reagan represented a number of things very traditional conservative principles free trade, smaller government, stronger military in some ways an internationalist also comes along with this optimistic upbeat view of the world that the country like jimmy carter that malaise. It is a shot of selfconfidence that the country really needs at that moment. People forget but remember one of the fondest memories that by 1979 peoples of the presidency is to be a good job really one person to handle we need a domestic policy and Foreign Policy that is how beleaguered the white house was with the Carter Administration at that point reagan walks through explicitly this is nonsense. This is america. We can do this has put ourselves together and move forward. That was the attitude but the philosophy was conservative. 1976, four years earlier reagan tried to take the nomination away from gerald ford in the party and the country that hes too conservative that is too far out there but by 1980 reagan had a move but the country was brady it has as much to do with carters your as much as reagan successful what really happened in 80 i appreciate he took a core message he had developed for years and expanded it and fleshed it out. So first of all his economic philosophy as he took supplyside economics from jack kemp and said im not for balancing the budget but a big tax cut so he had a conservative and then aligned with religious conservatives that was a revolutionary idea that those in the evangelical movement out of the church is into that Political MovementRonald Reagan went to them and they came to Ronald Reagan and they linked arms and with the economic conservative and then he made common cause those hawkish democrats very anti soviet and will use of bringing them into the coalition with the anti communism that hold the group together for so many years provided the glue that kept it together and created a coalition now there is this conservative message thats fully formed and thats what reagan but to the table in the 1980s. All the was not entirely clear to get these massive tax cuts for the next thing that happens is they are hit by a recession going back on those economic policies implemented in his first year. Thats a good point of the cut taxes and everything came back to life there is a giant tax cut his first year in Office Almost exactly what he asked what was considered dangerous revolutionary. The deficit exploded republicans were crazy nervous it continued the economy was going down at look like it could for a while be a colossal failure and so much so in 1982 republicans or conventional conservatives to push through congress the tax bill because they were so worried of the tax cuts opening up and then will the deficit spending the government had been cut finally kicked in by 1982 things started to take off but there was are. It was a gambler. It was not an instant success by any stretch of the imagination. You also write how at this time there was a scaffolding or infrastructure being built so that reaganism would outlast reagan so talk about that for those who were traveling with him and the think tanks and outside organizations. Yes. As you know you get a tour book you come up to the review we are things are clearer that way sometimes and this is one of the things i did not appreciate at the time it happened so incrementally i didnt grasp it when you go back and look you realize one of the things that happened in the first reagan term in particular was the construction of a conservative infrastructure to support the reagan revolution liberals had an infrastructure like think tanks and supporters and Money Organization and activist era and beyond that supported what they were doing conservatives didnt have that and so that took various forms when a Grover Norquist created at the behest of the Reagan White House which one in a group out there in societies to support our taxcutting regiment answer firepower from outside to support what we are doing. A very sleepy Little Organization to recruit wiccans to run for state legislature. Newt gingrich takes it over and put it on steroids now all of a sudden you have a giant nationwide farm team for conservatives to be developed and the governorships and house races off he will abide Newt Gingrichs ideas. So describe the technology by which they do this because i have long thought that the happiest coincidence and his entire political career was the fact he and the cspan cameras arrived at the House Chamber practically at the same moment. So he spread his message to the cspan audience for talk about the tapes. He had two technologies at the time were cutting edge the same ridiculous now but one was the cspan cameras he figured that if you show up Late Afternoon on the floor of the house the cameras were on and cspan were showing what was happening to the country but there was nothing happening so you step in and fill the vacuum to give regular order speeches so he starts to spread the gospel because you have a platform. He does that. But he also uses cassette tapes which seems ridiculous now but he figured out all those republican wannabes who wanted to be conservative reagan foot soldiers but the needed instruction and talking points and practical advice. He says way we can do versus make tape recordings of things republicans should say and do and now if they were run for office as a conservative incense amount of thousands across the country to grassroots young republican politicians who are meant to take the cassette tapes, and the car is going from event to event and listen to them and basically getting how to instructions and indoctrination from Newt Gingrich on the campaign trail and this turns a whole generation of young republican conservatives into Newt Gingrich republican conservatives were all basically playing by the same playbook. He does all those things then the nra becomes more Political Organization will buy a Democrat John dingell who is an outdoorsman and very much guns rights kind of democrat saying they should defend gun rights not just talk about outdoor conservation and hunting and fishing and that happened and then crucially the other organization that is created was a Federalist Society which is again a completely novel ide idea, and organization of conservative legalist warriors and law professors which has created to experiment one expand the legal gospel and then it turns out is an organization readymade to recruit federal conservative judges. The Federalist Society is created during the incubator. And it starts to recommend people and then promote conservatives who are nominated to be judges for federal and state now today the Federalist Society is the most important force pushing conservative judges onto federal branches and the Supreme Court and basically running that Party Operation for the Trump White House , started doing the reagan years. So the Heritage Foundation. Things that are going on beneath file under your nose but there was a sense early on, just before the reagan years in the late seventies some people had a sense there needed to be a conservative machine in washington to counter the liberal machine and one of the people interested was the coolers. Vagueness on magnate from colorado very conservative wanting to know how to assert himself so he sends a letter to a colorado senator want to come to town and talk about how to spend money to spread the conservative gospel and he want to give a big check to that aei there were no notable conservative think tank at the time this was intercepted and add folder among others is aware of this trip so he hijacks the trip and arranges to me which is of course. Mom joseph coolers said we should have a small conservative green beret think tank that doesnt just put out the white papers while they are creating action so he arrange that meeting with joseph coors so he realizes will have more impact if it doesnt happen in washington but if it does in the white house when nixon was still in office and then a likeminded conservative from california was working in the white house so they arrange for this meeting to be held in lens office in the Old Executive Office building to impress joseph coors he says these guys think i should give them money to start a new conservative think tank i think aei is here and i give them my money . Will arrange this ahead of time he walks over to his bookshelf was off the shelf the aei study blows dust off of it which she put the ahead of time gathering desk one dust this is what we do at aei studies here they go on the bookshelf giving money to these guys so joseph coors cut a Check Balance on rent a townhouse in the Heritage Foundation is born because one of the partners is walking through his neighborhood in Fairfax County and he sees the Group Housing division called the Heritage Homes so they call the Heritage Foundation and the rest is history now a giant multimillion dollar per year conservative think tank with the reagan agenda is still active today but had the seeds illness. With conservatives got started. Host over the 1980s going into the nineties is the language of politics begins to shift becomes a much rougher, darker lingo he is the leader to pay the acolyt acolyte. And that is a big change and is driven by more than one Newt Gingrich more than anybody else and then to talk about welfare moms but it didnt really last. People dont think of reagan as a fighter and the personal sense of famously to have their with tip oneill and that is a little bit exaggerated those that wanted to get along with everybody Newt Gingrich arrived and said conservatives to go along with the majority and then to fight them so he pulled a much more futuristic style and that with to write the democratic speaker of the house and then to have those ethical shortcomings the social the book he had written for which he was gaining the proceeds from book sales with protocol profiteering so he uses the cspan time to go after the democrats in very harsh terms and basically he turns the tenor of the conversation in a different direction. That has a lot of impact within the Republican Party because basically this all plays out in part while george h. W. Bush has become president and he is a very mainstream personality as the parties slowly taken over by the Newt Gingrich forces pushing a much harsher and combat a view of the world not even consistent philosophically but the tone talking with rahm emanuel also the leading member of the house in many ways going back to the clinton years by the arrival is the main figure in those movements not when donald trump arrived the became the leading spokesman for the movement and then to have such a departure from Ronald Reagan in tone and style that was the end of the reagan. As you get into the early nineties that you do to part from what Ronald Reagan would recognize as conservative philosophy and for the first time the first strains populism shows up in the party talk about where that came from. So the real canary in the coal mine was pat buchanan he was a Nixon White House aide he worked for Ronald Reagan and loved him but then by the early 19 nineties he decides the conservative message has missed a beat not working out enough for workingclass americans moving into the Republican Party for cultural reasons. And so they are moving into the Republican Party and pat buchanan thinks they will be hurt with a free trade message so we can move to mexico immigrants are moving in we have to stop that. He is quite eloquent and he says i began to develop a different view of what conservativism really is and should be very much early donald trump and anti free trade anti nafta anti immigration. Anti imports from abroad Program American these are pharisees and pat buchanan begins pushing them and 92 and then 96. And he is dismissed as a cultural warrior because he is also pushing the agenda of the religious right at the same time. So nothing then a cultural warrior pushing the social agenda. But the importance of pat buchanan with that message. And from that point with the 92 campaign with a serious one for president to hurt george h. W. Bush running for reelection, it hurts a minute campaign. From that campaign 1982 to the Trump Campaign in 2161 poster who does polling for us at the wall street journal and nbc news that at one point donald trump is pat buchanan with his own airplane that is how similar the messages are. That is the first sign there is movement within the Republican Party but also the potential for a spokesman to personalize the movement. Pat buchanan was just a little bit ahead of his time i think. Host we also see the emergence of the celebrity billionaire outsiders as well. Talk about ross perot and where he comes in with all of the. Ross perot he really was donald trump before donald trump. A billionaire businessman. Check the box. A loner and independent person with no real political connections at all. Check the box. Little paranoid a little conspiracy minded. Check the box. He has the unlikely way to connect and the vernacular of the working people so a billionaire talking to the workingclass people. Hes not resented for his wealth but admired for a. Check the box. So ross perot starts by saying the federal spending is out of control, too much red ink this will kill us a very traditional conservative balance the books type of message. But then he moves on a nationalist anti trade message the person who picks up bad pat buchanan theme to talk about nafta as a giant moving all of the jobs out of the us to the south. He picks up a real following their. We both worry about the ross perot army in 1982 and 1996. He was pushing back against the bipartisan establishment with free trade. So on this thirdparty figure with 19 percent of the vote probably stops george h. W. Bush from getting a second term it sends sugar down the spines of the traditional conservatives but then ultimately collapses because of his own personal flaws. Hes paranoid he cannot keep advisers around, conservative and a little scary. But he has a message like buchanan with a sign of things to come and interestingly it was all up and down the line and he figured out the way to find a soapbox with cable tv constantly that is donald trump three decades later the same playbook the country was already a four ross perot it turns out it was kind of ready for donald trump. He was mesmerizing on tv in the same way. It was part of politics and part performance art. And i did a fair amount of reporting in the 1992 96. And for the patriot parties so people i got to know in 92 and 96 that are regular foot soldiers and to feel they are part of pennsylvania with factories closing down and who really believe that ross perot had a point he was right about the country creating itself wedding free trade get in the way of regular americans. Looking back at the stories they had the same thought of ross perot the Trump Supporters have of donald trump they recognize he was and egomaniac and paranoid and dramatic and wished he would talk nice or not so crude but thats what you hear people say about trump but hes the one that can carry the message so we will work with his flaws because we believe he is the messenger we need right now. Thats another interesting parallel between ross perot and donald trump. The people that followed his more starry eyed and mesmerized they were hardheaded and realistic in many ways he was a flawed messenger but the best one available. Host with that schism that opens up when george w. Bush wasnt as skillful on the International Stage two years later gingrich hasnt gone anywhere and for the first time in 40 years republicans take over in the house as their leader. The gingrich proposition that there was a potential conservative majority in the country. By all rights public and should be in control of the house if not also the senate. George h. W. Bush failed because he wasnt conservative enough. So we should have the white house, we dont but we will take that congress and people were very skeptical in 1984 if that was possible but gingrich puts together the contract with america which basically steals literally out of Ronald Reagan speeches and puts them together in a list of ten, doesnt mention the word republican at all. Not to be seen as a republican document better conservative governing document for all of america and lays it out with the backdrop of a disorganized and disjointed scandal ridden early Clinton White house. And says we can do better. Heres my proof. I have a contract with you. This is will do so he takes that movement to a platform and produces that platform and it works. They went back control of the house. Its a shock to the entire system in washington. I couldnt tell then or now that was a shock to gingrich if he succeeded or not. But it happened. It was an earthquake where the biggest things that happened in this town since reagan himself was elected. And as a clear leader of the conservative movement. He then proceeds to dominate the agenda them he and bill clinton become the two baby boomers that are destined to collide but before they collide and the real reason gingrich did not succeed to establish himself and his leadership for the long run somebody who is a smarter and better politician than him and clinton realizes he has a point. The country has moved to the right going to the Democratic Party so he moves to the center and plans flag in the center and basically takes over that part of the ideological spectrum basically moving toward gingrich. That turned out to be very successful. People probably dont remember how this reoriented everything. At one point clinton stands up to declare the president is still relevant. He also declared along the same stretch the year of government is over. He said i will best Newt Gingrich by following him to the right and takes the Democratic Party there with him and it takes a while. Gingrich was the dominant force in town. One of the anecdote they say in the book during this period with leadership surveys and focus groups that with the wall street journal we have these line drawings and if you but gingrich in a headline and embed him in the story the readership immediately shot up. He was that fascinating and mesmerizing. People hated him were fascinated by him. He had all the power at his disposal. To some extent he was coopted by clinton and squandered it to overdo it essentially. Host he overreaches with two backtoback government shutdowns at the government one republicans got all the blame for. The polling suggested the impeachment of clinton was a big overreach by august of 98 people wanted clinton to be centered to get back to governing. Overreaches the right word. Thats exactly what happened. In a way clinton let him overreach to save you want to shut down the government he will take the blame for it and it happened twice. The republicans got blamed im sure clinton did not want to be impeached but it was in overreach seen by americans as a stupid fight between two baby boomers over sex and not public policy. The reaction to that was harmful as he was seen as a guy who pushed down the path. By the end of 1998 democrats pick up seats contrary to what you would expect Newt Gingrich is blamed by this plot by those in his own party and he is gone. For years after the contract with america, its all over in that sense. Newt gingrich is sitting down in his home district in georgia and clinton is sitting in the white house gingrich says to somebody so he broke a lot and perjured himself hes in the white house and im down here. What happened . Thats what happened. Host with the gingrich departure and the schism within the parties start. George w. Bush very much an establishment candidate governor of texas and fellow governors get together and encourage him to go forward he doesnt speak and the hard edge terms he talks about compassionate conservativism. So for a while does not look like the Republican Party is starting to resemble what was recognizable for decades . Absolutely and an updated version. George w. Bush unlike his father was seen by conservatives as a genuine conservative. He walked the walk and talk the talk. Conservatives actually believed he was one of them in the way he never thought his father was he seemed genuinely more antiabortion. And he was the evangelical. He really was from texas not greenwich connecticut. All of those spoke to who he really was to conservatives and they embraced it. One of the things i came to appreciate george w. Bush a little bit more because he came into office wanting to update the message wasnt just the catchphrase but it was the idea conservatives need not to be in an ivory tower, but be connected with people more. Conservatives lost their way. So we have to worry about for a black kid in the innercity school. The answer is School Choice we need to update the welfare state we have to create to work opportunities. There was an idea that conservativism was a little sterile and disconnected. George w. Bush comes into office and it is controversial because they think its too much government power and liberals are very skeptical but he moves down this path to update the conservative message and then 9 11 happens in that pretty much ended that experiment because now it comes secondary to a whole new agenda. With the era of endless wars begin. Its interesting because george w. Bush campaigned we need to pay more attention what is happening here. We should not engage in nationbuilding. Thats a mistake and a waste of resources we have her own stuff to do here at home. So 9 11 happens and then neoconservatives in the Republican Party populating those positions with the Bush Administration and by the way lost their reason for existence when the soviet union went out of existence suddenly they have a new enemy islamic extremism and islamic terrorist. They basically he sees the levers of power from the Bush Administration and push for the war in afghanistan its more controversial to the war in iraq which was not necessary and clearly illadvised for something george w. Bush word tell you and something he will she never got into. Host this brings us to the end of the bush presidency and then to gigantic things happen one is the biggest economic crisis since the Great Depression and all the disruption that brings into peoples lives. The second is the election of a democratic president the first africanamerican under racial tensions and one that has a very vigorous agenda starting with healthcare. How does that set the stage for donald trump . The first day it happens, republicans nominate somebody who is a wonderful american and a hero and equipped for all kinds of things but nothing of a crisis and that is john mccain. In the 2008 campaign he doesnt have an answer to what just happened with the financial industry meltdown. Barack obama and the democrats do. Where crisis like that calls for Big Government action. So barack obama wins. He set out have a giant economic rescue with a huge stimulus package so one thing because its absolutely necessary that another because democrats have taken control and they been wanting to do this for four years so all those things are decisions that it leaves conservatives bettering mad because money is going out the door, deficit spending with an economic crisis democrats are blamed for expanding the size of government that makes conservative republicans crazy and at the same time to be seen as a giant government takeover of the Health Care System and then to embrace conservative principles. It is a conservative ideas and these are incorporated but the whole package is seen as a Government Program and the main impact of that is is conservatives besides themselves and so far away from what they thought the country was headed towards in the nineties and certainly a racial overlay to this they cannot see barack obama and to lead the Congressional Republican leadership more than anything else to make sure hes not the twoterm president. So there may nominate the next guy mine a traditional republican in so many ways but also talks about the immigration issue so many thought he would win but when he loses and then to say we have to become a more forward thinking, inclusive party, and donald trump is sitting there and trump tower sixties after the election filling out the paperwork to trademark the phrase making America Great again very backward looking with White America essentially. What do they see that we are not seeing so in the meantime we are tired of government bailing out wall street and investment banks those who overspent it is a genuinely angry and then to adapting to it. Those with the least populous person who could think of to be the standardbearer and 2012. And that anti immigration sentiment and he loses. They that that was a winnable election additional been beaten and that conservative movement at that point so that establishment says lets go this direction we need to be more inclusive because that demography is changing. To have a more soon a message on immigration. With changing the message to adapt and donald trump arrives with a few others and then to say that is wrong we should go this way and that we should go back to the 19 fifties style message make America Great again. And then to stop trade agreements we should recognize the tea party showed us there is a populist movement and will take advantage of it spent between 2012 and 2015 and then we saw what happened. So here we are, less than two months away from the selection in the home stretch. Donald trump is in the white house and in the gallup poll so where are we going . So what is it and then to be tested about trump and the selection . Its hard to know for sure the outcome of this selection thats a copout it is republican and messaging and traditional conservatives have to decide where they go. The key question right now is whether democrats have a message that is reassuring enough to counter that. The odd thing about donald trump and i wrote this is specific or generically true people that dont like him that they vote for somebody who they like they want to like who they vote because he will be in the living room every night. Because those that dont like him the way he operates and can democrats counter that . Thats the real question its hard to analyze because is not about ideology in the future the Republican Party depends on the outcome of this question for what i find interesting that were the now one when trump leaves the scene there will be a whole new generation of young conservative thinkers how do you come up with the new message with that unmistakable urges that trump has seized and capitalized on with more traditional conservative ways to basically protect those in the process support that industrial policy lets get off that libertarian and message we do want to save plants we will help them in a conservative way and then take away from those traditional straightlaced groups i think swear things will probably head but in the post trump and the one person and that matters is donald j. Trump. With that convention all candidate and with that mindset with the way he campaigns but once he gets and with the responsibilities on his shoulders he will have to government like a much more conventional president but he is very much the same person. Does that surprise you . Very much so and i thought will be lasting and has changed the people think of him as president. Doesnt mean that everybody in the succeeding present will be twittered 40 or or 50 times a day. And theres a way to communicate the public in style of communicating is kind of a tone. That he has created, that will not go away overnight. Whether we hate him, he has turned the event the presidency to his style more than the other way around. Ninety not see that come into coming. And still surprised regularly i, she does that. And how much people accepted. I honestly thought that people would rebel at the idea that you can have a president he says things the way he does. And that you could have somebody diminishes the currency in the president ial statement to the point that he has just say, he says things for effect not because they are literally true. I thought that would be so jarring to people that they would not accept it. But a lot of people dont accepted but a lot of people do. And that will not just go away overnight. There is only one Donald J Trump but, he has changed the institution in ways i would not have anticipated. It. What about some of the norms that we expect of our president. It will president s in the future really release her tax returns are shut down the private businesses when they go in. Or has he changed those things that we can all assume. I think the new style of trump in the Republican Party. And for the most part, the Democratic Party. I think there is a desire to return to some of those norms and to strengthen institutions. And again, it will not go away. He has changed some of these patterns of political life in america forever. I think the people both parties quietly worry about the institutions and what about the separation of powers and what about the fbi and what about the National Security council. What about the dependence of independent agencies like the fda and the cdc. I think the quietly some of that will be restored because i think people in both parties are uncomfortable with some of those in the shattering of some of those norms. But not all of them. I think he will probably have institutions like the state department, they will feel more beholden to the president and less independent for a while after this raid because that is what donald trump is done and that is what a lot of people say they want. We will see how that last but i do think the underlying all of this, theres a level of concern about the stability in the future of basic institutions to an extent that i think some of that will probably turn back in the other direction. Karen it is hard to believe but we are out of time here. I just think this has been such a fascinating conversation. And you have written is a fascinating book. So congratulations. Gerald it is been an interesting career. I was glad to have the chance and think you for the conversation. This program is available as a podcast, all afterwards programs can be viewed on the website booktv. Org. You are watching book tv on cspan2, every weekend with the latest nonfiction books and authors. Cspan2, created by americas Cable Television company is a public service. And brought to you today by your television provider. Heres a look at some books being published this week. In the patriots, the late author winston bloom examines the political lives of alexander hamilton, Thomas Jefferson and john adams. Mr. A list, reports from the efforts of the group of syrians to build a library during the country civil war. In the book collector. And fighting much, recalling how World War Two veterans participated against political corruption and voter fraud. This was in tennessee in 1946. Also being published this week and 43, author James Collins invasion of italy during world world two. And the impact that world war ii had on britain and britain at bay. Find these titles this coming week wherever books are sold. And watch for any of the authors in the near future on book tv, on cspan2. Host good afternoon my name is karen and i am the director of the center National Security. Im delighted today to be joined by the author of the new book, the black banners declassified. The war on terror after 911. I am here at center on National Security at fordham law. And also some events that we have done together, a