This is one hour. Good evening everybody. It is wonderful to be with you again on this 27th program at the crossroads series. Tonight we are especially honored to present not one, but two extraordinary heroes, Lieutenant Colonel than men and journalist. They will be in conversation about the price paid by the military man in the era of trump. The program tonight is being recorded by cspan whom we welcomen, into our room. The series was created as a joint venture between uniteday r the democracy and justice and community advocates. Started after President Trumps first muslim man which we found to be a portent and in violation of our understanding of american democracy to the jejewish value. As a vehicle to site for civil discourse and protection of our democratic ideals. It is a Great Partnership that has been able to bring 27 outstanding programs with americas a list of thinkers. We are all volunteering your time and greatly appreciate the audience support and expressions. I welcome you tonight on behalf ipof the leadership team. Thank you to the many wonderful cosponsors the center for justice and Holocaust Museum la. A remainder next week we protect the chief advisor and outstanding David Axelrod at the regular time and then on november 2nd from 5 to 7 we have an Amazing Program with a rotating cast of six brilliant panelists. They will tell us what will happen and what will it mean. And in november we will host bill kristol and george will on three separate wednesdays to help us understand what has happened and then december with congressman adam schiff. Want to conclude my welcoming remarks with a comment about the guests tonight. No doubt many others at the town hall tonight spend much of our early life fighting for the relief in the soviet union and throughout the night was a national activist leader. In addition to the political advocacy activism, we traveled to the soviet union to visit and bring back their stories to void the movement. It gives us time to be able to host two incredible men born in the soviet union and whose families were able to emigrate to the efforts of that movement. We are so grateful to have you here with us tonight. To introduce the speakers please welcome the community advocates, a great leader and partner and friend. I am pleased to welcome you all to the virtual town hall with a record of nearly 5500 registers. The audience is now bridging oceans. Last Nights Program had visitors from mexico to columbia. Tonight we offered the analysts and i can help but mention he stands out in todays america as the hero. Hes one of the few individuals that have exhibited courage in the face of tyranny and wrongdoing. When confronted though they had a little to lose they spoke up when he witnessed the wrongdoing knowing full well that his career was in jeopardy. He took a stand when countless others did nothing though they knew the consequences were to the nation. You are about to hear from a brave man and the right tim at e for all the right reasons. Making a third appearance of the ppseries hes a respected historian, bestselling author and Foreign Policy activists. He is the senior fellow on the foreign relations, womanist for the Washington Post and analyst for cnn. He will introduce his friend and guest speaker to discuss the era of trump, paying the price. Thank you very much. I echo everything that you said about alex being a hero. And now very briefly, alex was born in 1975 in the soviet union in ukraine. He and his family came here and he grew up in new york city where im speaking to you from. He graduated and joined the u. S. Army as a Second Lieutenant of an infantry. He subsequently served in a variety of assignments. In 2008 he specialized in the former soviet union and eastern seurope and he spent time at te u. S. Embassy and got an ma from harvard and then was an assistant army attache from 2012 to 2015. Then he was a political military adviser to the chair man of joint and 2018 he was assigned to the National Security council was the director for Eastern European caucuses and Russian Affairs and of course this is where he achieved worldwide fame. It was almost a year ago on november 19 alex testified before the Senate House Intelligence committee about what transpired on a phone call between President Trump. As he testified he thought it was deeply troubling and he reported that of his chain of command and he did so truthfully and honestly but at a great personal risk to himself and my first question is did you have any idea what would happen when you referred your concerns and when you agreed to testify, did you hesitate . You must have realized you were going against the most powerful man in the country. You would be deeply unhappy about your testimony. Is there a lot of military officers who would choose to stay out of the line of fire but you advanced. Was that a hard decision for you ask. Thank you for being part of this discussion. Im privileged to have you be my interviewer. Thank you for hosting. Its a unique opportunity to join this group of guests youve had working through and its an opportunity to kind of share whatth transpired. There was little to no concern making the initial report to the proper authorities in the council. You have tors understand from my perspective, i had been watching this kind of slow moving car crash for several months. It became clear that there were some oddities as early as march when the former mayor of new york city, Rudy Giuliani started to advance a sort of narrative about ukrainian interference and corruption on the part of the exceptional ambassador. That continued over the subsequent months all the way to president zielinski and the inauguration i attended in the may timeframe really all the way through it started to come to head early june about two weeks before when the National Security advisor came through and offered a kind of quid pro quo transaction at which point i reported a lot of people dont necessarily remember or recall. But what was troubling is i tried to associate may be because my military training and high regard of the office i try to do associate the president was personally involved but that apwas apparent in that call on july 205th. Nobody in the United States is above the law. I shared my concerns in the hope that the proper authorities could write the ship and get us back on course. Ultimately with regards to the testimony itself, i would say i obviously knew the consequences but hoping i wouldnt be a victim of retaliation, but i had a suspicion that this was going to be highly problematic potentially ending my career but what were my optionsd really . I could have reversed course somehow and basically went back on my initial concerns. I could have shirked my responsibilities as a military officer and not appeared. I never really considered unless the president gave me a direct order to play out in the courts, i never considered not appearing before congress and testifying. Thats not the country i lived in as far as im concerned and there was no chance that i wasnt going to do my duty in this case. The most memorable part of your statement is when you addressed your father and his concerns. Im sitting here in the u. S. Capitol talking to elected professionals thats proof youou made the right decision 40 years ago to leave and come here to the United States of america in search of a better life for our family. Do not worry. I will be fine for telling the truth. Do you still feel that way because you have suffered. Youve had to retire early as ad Lieutenant Colonel. You were not promoted as you deserve to be. Your brother was fired along with you. Do you still feel like you are fine and the experience is a vindication of the american system . In a lot of ways, there was certainly the failure of congress as a whole to enforce accountability and pursue justice. My role was pretty straightforward. I was a witness called to testify on what i observed. Going into the closed door testimony and public testimony on the 19th of november, there was little doubt i was going to face retaliation. At that point i had faced retaliation. I was already ostracized by the kind of senior Political Leadership and excluded from certain activities having proven myself as either disloyal or unreliable to the president. The president we swear in oath to the constitution. I knew what i was getting into. Every word in my statement was very carefully reviewed. I wish i had reversed it because i meant to say not elected professionals but i said elected. I couldnt get it out. I knew what i was saying. The fact we live in a different country than we came from where the stakes were much higher. I was eluding to ske the fact tt ultimately in the long run i would be fine. There were fewer misconceptions it would be a rocky road in the foreseeable future. I did ultimately end up leaving due to a campaign of bullying and retaliation and intimidation. My dad came here at the age of 47 with 750. 3 young sons and a motherinlaw and he managed to do fine with much, much harder load at him and thats where i trust i will be fine. How does itee feel to have bn rocketed so quickly to so much fame and notoriety and in particular it was watching your testimony that was evidently truthful, to see the way you were vilified by so many republicans, having republican members question the loyalty which was sickening for somebody like you whos earned the purple heart for the country, having the White House Press secretary calling you a junior employee and the president of the United States attack you. But also when he fired you sending out a tweet about how you are supposed to have been given a horrendous and you wouldnt adhere to the chain of command and allul these lies, te kind of stuff we are used to seeing from internet trolls but this was the president of the United States saying this, the president that at the same time was your commanderinchief. This was a surreal experience i cant i imagine what thats lik. Did you feel personally threatened, like your life or your familys life was at stake . I just cant imagine what that experience is like. Ive been through tough situations. Ive deployed through combat, three years in moscow in one of the more highstakes geopolitical games are played and an entire Security Apparatus ordered against you as an attache. My wife and i have been through our own challenges. She spoke about those recently with regards to trying to have a bigger family. In the big scheme of things, i tend not to focus on the bad things. I separate the office from the person. I hate referring to him as President Trump because he doesnt deserve that title in my mind. Yes he won the election but you have to prove respect and hes done the opposite. So, i have little regard for him and little regard for the officials he put in high office because they are unqualified and frankly often times incompetent. So, in a lot of ways i take it as a badge of honor when i get attacked by these folks you know, with other completely specious claims about me and my character because i have little regard for them. People i do hold high regard for like the chair man in his last days in uniform he basically put out some, he made it a point to speak to put information out for cnn, testing my qualities. And i can generally hold my own. But it is quite disconcerting to come to the house meaning that people know how to find us and that was a problem and we were prepared to potentially move and increase resource protection and do Due Diligence for safety. But we try to live a life as much as we could normally in a stressful situation. Its great you have to endure all that but what you think of people like john bolton of all the republican members of congress who look at the evidence and then disregarded and voted to acquit even though the evidence was overwhelming he was guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors of which he was accused . What i find interesting i could take solace in the fact people have to live with their decisions i could speak about myself and why i chose to do my duty i do the right thing to do and i would have to live with myself if i somehow didnt do the right thing and look my daughter in her eyes and i couldve made a difference and i was not going to dishonor our family by shirking my responsibility. Those that failed to do that will have to live the consequences with of their actions and not even feel bad about it some of these folks are selfserving and looking to and i guess they will be fine even if they are vilified by the public. But i think probably there will be enough people that will suffer consequences ass a result of shirking responsibilities and we will see that in the upcoming election in a coupleee weeks that they will lose their office and for the rest of them to have that basically for the rest of their careers we would just leave it at that. You mentioned the support you receive from the outgoing chiefs but i am curious in general the support you received from the army , secretary of defense and where general dunford was replaced did you feel you were being vilified by the president of the United Stateswh or did they leave that man on the battlefield. There is some nuance so i never felt i had any supporter backing so whos to blame i guess empire the defense officials and the joint chiefs as leaders to go back to the president and the environment for the past four years and our institutions that have kept us a strong as we have been have been under attack with the department of justice, Homeland Security the state departmenty, and the department of defense was drawn in and the officials we had to make a choice between catering to their fears and succumbing to concern what the president might do or are kept quiet and they decided to preserve their own positions , whether that is to be in an office as a guard rail but somehow they would be in the position to spend the most egregious activities for there is equal part at least these individuals were looking to secure o their own position and did not want to risk the vindictive backlash from President Trump. And i think its worth mentioning that it is a slippery slope with this president and if you dont stand your ground the president is likely to pursue an agenda more aggressively and we may have seen that play out frankly in Lafayette Park when the secretary esper and the chairman came to back him as he pushed Peaceful Protesters so they had stood their ground in my case the mayor may have may not. So traditionally the military republican group. I actually word say that to describe it as the military tendency to run more conservatives. There is a large continuum that tends to be representative of where they originate from and then it tends to run more conservatives the politics dont play a significant role frankly i had noon idea of that political affiliation of my subordinates and what that affiliationic was i guess they had no idea. My own background registering as a democrat at 18 during the course of my military career is not an active participant in politics. I took the concept very seriously and if the president had pulled me into politics i wouldve stayed in that space but he did attack me and i have actually seen behind the curtain and it was my duty to speak up and a test to the Foreign Policy failures the personal failures of the president. If ide have any constructive role to have any impact on the Upcoming Elections that i will do that and that is way outside my comfort zone are not interested in a lot of media engagements but i had to get comfortable with it pretty quickly starting in september and telling my story so the American Public could see for faithful Public Servants and any indication of the next four years would be better is misplaced if anything it will be significantly worse and people should just know that when they go vote. Those that are more senior general kelly or hr mcmaster those who clearly just as involved as you are as President Trumps misconduct but they are not speaking out were campaigning against trump or alerting people to the danger they have a lot less to lose than you do as retired generals and senators nothing can possibly happen to them they dont have careers to pursue but yet they choose to stay on stay silent what ha your view . Maybe i dont have time sentiments in this regard i see it as selfpreservation military officers their entire career they think about preserving options. You want as many options as possible and sticking to the notion to limit their opportunities and to improve a lot of their family and basically and maybe they have lost sight they have an opportunity to continue to serve and i see my role in Public Service continuing. Frankly i dont understand with that said of values for decades they know what right and wrong is the only thing that seems to suggest why they are not is selfpreservation selfenrichment differently thats how i see it the idea of the apolitical military once you hang up your uniform you are stillrm a leader. So what could be what is in question that people have been asking for a long time and to which ive not given a straight answer the question essentially beingat, what is it with the trump and rush in p particular with trump and putin . Dan coats was quoted by bob woodward saying that he thinks putin has something on trump. Is that something . How do you explain the fact that trump attacks pretty much everybody in the universe except Vladimir Putin . Why is that . It is a 64 milliondollar question. I have heard people speculate about the compromise that Vladimir Putin might have on him but i take the analytical approach in a determine he doesnt need compromise he has a willing participant in the form of trump who is a potential and boy. He admires him and has for a long time because of who he is and the power he wields without any kind of check and he would like to be the same kind of figure and doesnt have the wherewithal to do that. I have described him as a ieful idiot and a fellow traveler but frankly he doesnt know basically he undermines the credibility and the trust of the Intelligence Community in helsinki he took the word approach and in that consensus view of the Intelligence Committee and frankly is a useful idiot and those divisive issues to use them to drive larger wedges and a fellow traveler i guess only to be an authoritarian leader and then do everything anu can in the next four years of elected to be it with the authoritarian leader. That is his view how power should be wielded. Compromising material is not necessarily useful also trump was so erratic and impulsive, doesnt make a lot of sense for the russians to try to use leverage in that way because putin knows what he can say. The whole thing could blow up in the Russian Space at the president were to say yes the russians have something on me. It doesnt make sense to use information like that. What do you make about the pseudo scandal that trump and Rudy Giuliani are now trying to generate about hunter biden emails looks like a continuation of a scam he blew the whistle on trying to get thego government with usa to come up with a compromise on hunter biden and joe biden but now he seems to be trying the same thing so the New York Post throws out these emails of authenticityy that have not been verified and frankly i have to say, even if they are true i see the scandal because fundamentally there is no evidence that joe biden did anything to help i and those actions of ukraine that is what the Us Government and the International Community but nevertheless you have trump sd the whole game to make this the greatest political scandal in history and of course the whole time working with people like andre the ukrainian lawmaker designated as a russian agent by trumps of Treasury Department so much is coming out like breitbart and fox news only a few days left before the election what is your analysis attempt to create a scandal . It also falls on the shoulders of congress and the failure, especially the senate because of the president was even with this enterprise it would be the same thing now with the false narrative of corruption with Vice President biden. I started this in the march april timeframe of 2019. And relatively quickly dismissed it. Of the true subject Matter Experts the state department and the embassy and there was no real substance. And it is pretty clear when paris smut and Ukrainian Government reported the freeze mass servers were hacked and information was stolen, this was months and many months ago maybe the beginning of this year the end of last year it was clear how this information could be used all the experts say this iss something that would be ruled out in the o campaign but if this is the october surprise it helps to get President Trump past the goal i think anybody cares and nobody is payingg attention. Sean hannity is paying attention. The average american is not. But there is a hardcore constituency no matter what it. Thats not the portion of the electorate that will get him a second term. The vast majority that will bring in is to realize they have died because of the mismanagement of the pandemic and that consequence of that catastrophe. And people feel this. I went to visit a 94 yearold grandmother in Middle America in oklahoma and people wear masks and they feel the effects of the covid virus. I did not magically go away like the president suggested it would. So the distractions of the advocated narrative no clear connection to hunter biden come as a matter fact i think the a fbi and you have radcliffe with this more me political figure not acting as the dni but you are perpetuating the self narrative. So fundamentally the people that will Pay Attention for that this will be meaningful to will not be swayed offer voting for President Trump. So with that 35 percent population he is going through hardcore Trump Supporters thats not enough to get the president across the goal line and i want to reiterate warmer time theres just not anything credible to substantiate that these are legitimate accusations against hunter biden, who i think had major lapse of an error of judgment profiting off his fathers position and enriching himself. You cannot realize the potential harm that could do to the Vice President. That is a terrible lapse in judgment. But i guess that is for Vice President biden and hunter biden to work out. He seems like a wonderful and loving father and im sure they will get past that but all that is one thats all there is to it. My final question is what is the russian game plan for the selection . We just had a report in the New York Times today from the Intelligence Community saying they are hacking into election and infrastructure of course yesterday we had radcliffe pointing the finger for particular Information Operation to suggest iran and china are the realna threats but clearly the Intelligence Community is saying russia is the real threat but how far is time running out with the election so close. So to be all in on the strategy so the first primary objective is to help President Trump get elected because he has been russian interest with those alliances undermining nato and the credibility of the liberal democratic order thiseate space for alternative authoritarian vision so thats the first thing and in the chinese do not as a matter fact they would not be helpingth trump but also been very unstable and unpredictable and with that form policy they would be instrumental in american decline so probably on opposite sides here because our predictability to the to a catastrophic miscalculation or an accident. But back to russia, the second thing they are looking for is Credible Elections and the president has done far more than the russians can do they are doing like in a increment to advance the notion with that data to support the notion and to undermines a utpotential outcome that will be hard to make the case. In my give the president enough room to challenge this in the courts and to create that dell in space but in general the russians are keen interfering in us elections to undermine the credibility of our democracy and how it functions. That is a part b to the second objective i could tell you from a technical standpoint it is not easy. Actually have to invest pretty heavily in spite of the fact they have denied with election interference and then to pardon on elections and as intended by us officials. So what you have is enough data out there to cast doubt not enough to create any real harm we have 50 states and 50 election and they have to be really precise targeting identify give them too much credit in that regard to have those macro objectives they are operatingn on. The first question very naturally that you are talking about what should be the policy . I think a lot of people have spent time considering this so certainly to be a reckoning with election insurance and that could take many different forms. This administration has been relatively consistent not so much recently but the last couple years has been relatively consistent against the allied interest. I think some of thosese things not ineffective or enough. To put bounties on your soldiers the unprecedented attacks come in the things they would not have considered. It is credible enough. But the reason i can say that is there has been wide reporting they have rendered significant there is a high risk associated with that with the major response but to answer garys question, we will have to start looking at some other tools. With that in turn all interference with Domestic Affairs and in europe they should be prepared for similar response and then promoted by the us is completely false. We might need to be prepared for that. And some more personal questions. Did you counter an i. C. E. On antisemitism it seems that trump has considerable support so why is that . So to start with these there is a normal propensity for older emigre community to be very conservative. Hitting socialism or can be claimed as such has a very Strong Negative response. But the russians are reporting that many people may not know and then with the expats with israel and frankly anyplace and bombarding them with the disinformation. With the easy and natural purchase and slipping into socialism or communism. Just like your family and my family before he became a target there we are open and supportive President Trump. Thats no longer the case it is something that requires leadership or other emigres to reach out to these communities to have these conversations. And that it would be had to shed light on this issue. So it is interesting despite the fact the community is wellversed in the art of propaganda, and then to take spoonfuls of it. And as an officer, that isnt conducive to people to be racist towards me. And in making corrections. And those which i never experienced at least one occasion where somebodys said something and i just made a correction. But then again it is representative there are people in parts of the country where it doesnt make sense to me. So there isnt a large jewish population. And then to understand the judaism but then to have the targeting of racism or bias per se. Only in a general sense and an obstacle with protestant and they may look more favorably on people who look similar but not explicit bias but the army in the military is good about not tolerating that kind of stuff. So the only time we encounter antisemitism is since trump came to office with the anti somatic tweets and emails at all the other garbage. So what do you think they talked about so what do you think they were saying to each other . I know the translator pretty well. I think she would have tolerated anything play and in that issue. But its a problem and the fact is more than likely and the typical ledge almost like a child with the abuse he feels he suffers from the media or a victim of a certain offense. And then to be salivating over the fact and putin from the trump size. And working on looking for every opportunity. With her own interest and agenda. So my first day on the tennessee. And i wouldnt read too far into that. And as an adult and a man and a leader. There is nothing substantive. And with those initiatives. But the problem i would say that i addressed. And to operate in a formal existing bureaucratic channel. That is not necessarily the channel of record and then to work around with the political actors so that phone call was because to reach out to schedule the profile even though john bolton said no but you have these and runs around. So i say its hard to understand all those deals that are out there that process is corrupted and it will get worse. We have a number of questions about you personally with your retirement, are you okay and a couple of questions could he bring you back as a civilian . So there is a lot of interest hear from folks. And thank you to all the support because i felt an enormous amount of support the process with thousands of letters coming in so i and grateful. Eugene is doing okay for the time being. I want to say they charged the right thing with the army in department of defense potentially right now at this moment the Promotion Board was expecting results and then to hold off on submitting to be promoted. And then to lash out with bigger issues to deal with. And with the National Security council to harm the career and then to cover up some wrongdoing with that retaliation and that ethical violations its too early to say. And then look at the great power competition. And then also look at consumption in the questions that are the most meaningful for us. Had we deal with russia that is aggressive with that 21st century environment. And i and am enjoying that. I made a commitment to complete the program. Vet if called to serve in have to cancel that because my future hold service. And then to sign off. Thank you for providing this opportunity and then maybe again for those undecided out there encourage them to go out and vote and to a very powerful teacher of trump is reelected. If he has four more years for my wife speeches amazing and phenomenal. And i prefer not to and i went to live with myself if i do everything to protect this country. I think everybody on this program and there are thousands of people think we are all united in admiration to your heroism to speak out and to serve this country not just from our sworn enemies but our own president and his instrument in the white house. Tremendous admiration so that is very enlightening on behalf of jews for united democracy thank you for joining us this evening