Good morning. Im jonathan capehart, opinion writer for the Washington Post and welcome to first look, Washington Post onestop shop for news and analysis on the most pressing political issues of the day. This morning we are reviewing an actionpacked week, Amy Coney Barretts nomination, the coronavirus, stimulus talks and, of course, last nights dueling banjos of town halls, one for president donald trump, the other performer Vice President joe biden, the democratic president ial nominee. To get it started to talk about all of this is the Washington Post White House Reporter ashley parker. Thanks so much for being here. Thanks for having me, jonathan. So on the town hall, these dueling debates, did the Trump Campaign achieve its t aim, scheduling the trump townhall at the same time as biden . Well, its the aim in some way was to compete with biden for airtime and overshadow biden. I think yes. Anecdotally, or people seems to be watching thetr trump townhall in real time than the joe biden townhall. The real question to me is, if knowing now in hindsight how that townhall went, is the Trump Campaign actually happy that the ginger so many people watched thatat trump townhall in realtime . Im glad you pointed that out because earlier in the day i sent out the tweets saying, lets be clear, the town hall format is not exactly the best format for the president because he is interacting with people and sort of his demeanor with people, as we saw in abc townhall a couple weeks ago, is not,t, lets, its that warm and fuzzy shall we say. Ill put it like that. Im bringing all this up becaue im wondering from thede Trump Campaign, or from President Trumps perspective, which is better, a townhall or a Campaign Rally . From trumps perspective there is Nothing Better than a Campaign Rally, right . His aides have tried to tell them in some ways when it was this whole backandforth about the debate to try to convey to them look, right now just about no T Cable Network takes around his life. Maybe fox news for part of it, depending on what the news is, depending on what time the rally is. But the sort of eyeballs you get from a debate or a National Television event that you do just simply does not compare to you doing a rally or you calling in to fox business news. But for the president s own sense of self and what he likes to do, its the rally is what he prefers. I know he loves the rallies and allows single people and hearing the cheers and applause and laughter, but does the president actually enjoyed taking questions from real everydayev people . You know, he cant get it depends on his mood. I can do something about the rallies being up on stage and the cheers and the adoration that he is always going to seek and clean energy from. Depending on his mood present the sometimes like to take questions from the press, or instance and mix it up and is not dissimilar to real everyday americans. Is there a difference between a donald trump generally is able to express empathy, and bill clinton style feel her pain when talking to an average voter compared to some like joe biden or bill clinton . Absolutely. Its not for the president shines. Heat doesnt might get an interesting thing about townhall he did yesterday. Itng really began with a kind of oneonone interview, combative interview relentless interview almost like a debate with Savannah Guthrie. At the first commercial break a trump and walked out on stage and sort of cold savannah aside and reminded her that hey, the terms of this is supposed to be a townhallum with voters. In that moment you had the Trump Campaign eager to get back to voter questions, which again might not be with the president shines showing empathy but they realized it would certainly be less combative and less kind of relentless followup that was getting the President Trump of what he was doing in realtime with savannah, who did do a fantastic interview. Yes, i was about to ask you to dive a little deeper into her questioning, but you spilled a little teaser which i admit i havent read the morning papers but the fact that Trump Campaign went out to Savannah Guthrie at the first commercial break and like hey, you know, have some questions from real people . This gets to what is going to ask about savannah w guthrie. The president s experience with savannah last night, to me was akin to his experience with Jonathan Swann of axios when they did that instantly epic interview where Jonathan Swann fact checked andnd pushed back n the president in realtime. Im wondering how does the president deal with Something Like that . Does that get under his skin, to be interrupted and challenged like that . I mean, i think you can just watch for yourself. The the president is incredibly difficult to interview, but some people, most notably as you mention in recent memory Jonathan Swann and Savannah Guthrie, have been successful in that. Savannah is i believe she is a former lawyer and theres something about the president in his orbit generally one of the things you hear is that hes not challenged. He g gets memos and briefings of support his worldview. So when you have some like savannah, she was polite, she was cheerful, but she was also relentless and choose armed with the facts. To go back to him time and time again when he didnt answer, to push him politely but to push you are when he said a fact that was wrong, when he misconstrued a study, to say hey, wait a minute, this is what youre saying and heres why its wrong, it does frustrate him a little. But more than frustrate him, it elicits answers actually for the public that we dont normally get to see when we hear trumps talking points. Often he gets a question any sort heres the key word. And then he presses a button for black voters come heres what i say about black voters, or the economy, heres what i say about the economy. So you actually have that backandforth is fascinating and revealing. One last question for you. Do you think Savannah Guthrie rapid fire conversational approach to moderating revealed more about the president s lack of policy knowledge than previous formats . Potentially. There were some policy questions he didnt quite catch up but to me the moment that stood out where the moments where she pressed him on his general reluctance to disavow White Supremacy. When she pressed him on why wont you just say qanon is a crazy Conspiracy Theory . When she pressed him on why do think its acceptable to retweet a Conspiracy Theory . The present said im just retreating it. Savannah said, look, youre the president of the United States, youre not a creepy uncle at thanksgiving who just put stuff out in the ether. Those of the most that stood out andu those are not policy moment although youre right on the policy front as well. Do you think him i know i said that was the last question but really, this is last question. Technically speaking, there is a last debate on the calendar. Its supposed to be next week. In the reporting that you might have on whether that debate is actually going to happen . A good question. The first debate was not good for President Trump. I will say President Trump initially thought the first debate was good for him. His advisers kind of had to tell him otherwise. But debate is, you are very few competing days late. This debate is one moment to turn the tide. Ifer theres anyone who does not have an incentive to run out the clock, its a donald trump. He can sort of do his, a not going to do it, im going to do it. But at the end of a, theres one of them want to debate, i want to chance to perform better and mix it up and maybe change the momentum, its donald trump, and his team should want that debate more than bidens team right now. All right. Ashley parker, Washington Post White House Reporter, thank you very much for coming on. Well have to leave it there. Have a good rest of the day. Lets go over to the opinion site of the paper where we will find my colleague Washington Post deputy Editorial Page Editor ruth marcus was really here at this time as opposed to last time, and contributing columnist hugh hewitt. Ruth, hugh, welcome. Thank you. Thanks for having us. Lets start by talking about last nights dueling townhall. The contrast was start between the two townhall last night. But before you get into specifics of all that im interested in how you managed the simultaneous shows. Who did you watch first or did you flip in between . Sugar till the actual truth . Go ahead. The actual truth is that we had a rare moment when we went to a friends backyard for dinner last night and w so i watched it all afterwards. It was a little bit problematic because i was preprogrammed to have some views from what ive seen on twitter, which i dont like, but i didnt have to figure out which is going to flip through. We just had excellent chicken and squash and fruit desserts with our friends, and it was so great to get out. We had a blast. I watched the president uninterrupted with savannah. Nobody expected the spanish inquisition and that was made up its television. I watched joe bidens last halfhour with George Griffin merv griffin and george stephanopoulos. You are dating yourself. Whats that. What you were dating. I know. No one knows youre not allowed. The last thing before hosted the debate in 2016 as a cinema years, no seinfeld jokes. The kids wont get it. The merv griffin is very old but it was that a format at the end of the couch. I watched twitter through the whole thing for both of them which is how i think a lot of americans consumed the debate. Definitely donald trump generated the most positive and negative responses. Okay. Thats true, actually, hugh. For my part we were out social distancing was some friends in backyard, got home in time, and having to choose between the two, we chose President Trump first because is only an hour and we can pick up a half hour, the last halfhour of Vice President biden. But i have to be honest, i watched President Trump because i wanted to see how is he going to do in this format. Because when you did the townhall with abc, it didnt go so well. And also in looking at twitter and the reactions to what joe biden was saying, it was, you know what, i actually dont need to watch the first hour of joe biden because i know, within i know im going to get, kallman, steady, empathetic. And when i tuned in half hour later thats what i got. I guess the question to the both of you is, from the president s perspective, was it the right thing to do to do this dueling banjos type townhall . He and joe biden up against each other, and did it serve his purpose . Start with you, you. Yes, i think absolutely you never turned up primetime on nbc. I think youllgh probably have better ratings than joe. I just am sad the Debate Commission screwed this up. I think Steve Scalise is a terrific fair moderator. They couldve gone forward, it would been safe for both candidates and it wouldve been better to have them both there. L i think they will have the last one but he got to see the most important thing that hes said which was Amy Coney Barrett is a great justice and she deserves support and it did not ask for anything. That was the most important thing you need needed to say, d then he also gave joe biden 90 minutes to make45 a mistake as opposed to 45 minutes. He made a huge mistake talking not talk about fracking last night. He said will take one and 20,000 people away fracking jobs and put them into casting wills. That might make sense in the blue republic but in western pennsylvania people are scratching threat and a hard we cannot vote for joe biden are we losing our jobs. I think it works foror him very well. Ruth, before you enter come is the most important thing thee president you to say was that Amy Coney Barrett was the person for the Supreme Court . Shouldnt most important thing the president has said was that White Supremacy is bad and that qanon isat a totally not so Conspiracy Theory 90 and i unequivocally say so . Can i do something really crazy and disagree with both of you simultaneously . The most important thing that the president could have done and did not do was to speak to the undecided voters out there, the kind of voters who might be tempted to goo with him this time, go with him a second time but has been turned off by some of his behavior, who are worried about the economy, who are without covid, and to give them a a clear understanding of where it is he wants to take the country in a second term. I thought is a really interesting question that Savannah Guthrie asked them towards in. It mightve been the last question you should talk to him about a second term and said what would you do to improve . Of course President Trump being President Trump, there is no room for improvement because he is perfect and he has done everything splendidly like no one has ever seen before. And so he didnt do anything i thought you try to close the deal with those undecided voters. While i was disappointed that we didnt have an actual debate between the two, i thought a contract between the two candidates was remarkable. There was a point at which Mercedes Schlapp one President Trumps Campaign Advisers from white house advisor tweeted about how joe biden was coming off as mr. R. Rogers. I thought yes actually mercedes this is one of the rare times we are in agreement. We need a little bit more mr. Rogers in our political life. We need some neighborliness. We need some calm and about the contrast between the two candidates and their demeanors just said it all to voters. Q, two, are there any undecid voters . I dont believe there really are any. 100 hu agree. We can all vote today. People of have made up their m. We dont know i went to the polling errors in 2016, they were off 6. 7 points in wisconsi wisconsin. They say they have adjusted then model. They sampled Rural America better but again im going to retreat to the one thing that might change peoples mind this week is Amy Coney Barrett being as extraordinarily poised and persuasive as she was. I think that people who voted for judges last time a will vote for judges again. I do not believe that exchange, washington, d. C. And manhattan thinking, i dont think Savannah Guthrie moved the independence one way or the other either by going after what many peoples fears sound like him the spanish inquisition again on qanon and on White Supremacy, asked and answered. I dont think that work for the independent voters who are worried about their jobs and getting sick. I just dont. Its the savannah inquisition maybe not the spanish inquisition and i thought she prosecuted it extraordinarilyrd well. Jonathan, you suggested wasnt going to get screwed both the unknown be back here again. Youve absolutely will. You suggested it was the format that was a town hall format is not the best for President Trump that may be but i thought hede did fine with voters. I thought he seemed pretty responsive to and empathetic to them. But i thought where he was really tripped up was with savannah inquisition, and i think and inquisition is really good thing. Thats what we as journalists do. She asked her questions and we should keep in at it and she kt on answering thehe asking fo. On online list of clubs and a part of the opening which is whn white house advisers and Campaign Advisers were so concerned about the opening is his comments about his continuing refusal to answer questions about when he last tested negative before he tested positive. His misstatements about masks and is continuing refusal to do the president ial thing and exhort people to do the safe thing and to wear masks come his answer on his taxes and his acknowledgment that he owes 400 million to god knows who, he does and god knows and the irs knows but we the American People dont know. He cleaned up his answer on whiteem supremacy finally and repeatedly, if any opened up this whole crazy uncle irresponsible front on qanon, whichi anybody else i do not understand why he would twice defend qanon a a strong opposers of pedophilia instead of just saying look, theres crazy things out there and no, i dont agree with them. Maybe you can answer what he didnt do that. So i thought that was where he really fell short, and yes, there are few undecided voters but they are still wavering and you still have to convince some people who may be rolling their eyes at him at the need to get out and leave. Im really curious about what hugh would say that the answer from the president that i found most surprising perhaps come which was when savannah asked him what he would like to see roe v. Wade overruled. Instead of repeating what you said previously instead repeating what is in Republican Party platform or i i guess we dont have that anymore, we jt have the trump platform, the kind of demurred. Ill answer that. I must say the biggest problem from last night is that the American People upset with the media. If, in fact, nbc, i dont know what they agree to, agree to and offthecuff townhall and it was 20 minutes of savannah at the start, that will deepen the distrust that is felt by centerright america a big media. I cannot think the tech because of what happened with the hunter biden story. I want to go there that it was censured by big tech. They have great suspicion of elites and that the great suspicion about that happen yet today. If savannah was known to the president was going to be opening up with 20 mint street interview, then it was fine. It began to the president a townhall and it didnt deliver it, thatsau not fine because he American Media has a credibility with the centerright. I just have to dash and i dont know what the answer is but if you sit down and you are told we would go right to the voters, you prefer different than if you sit down with Savannah Guthrie. Jonathan, im sorry, i knew you get to ask questions but hugh, this president agreed to a set of rules. I dont know what theesgh rulese so i dont know whether they follow the rules for didnt follow the rules. The reality is that i think you would agree none of those questions was improper,ag offbase, even immaterial. But even if they were, the reality is that theon last persn on earth who has the stent to complain about not falling the rules ine a debate or in a townhall format or anything else is donald trump who did not follow the rules at the first and hope not the last president ial debate. And again we have to disagree about, you break every time i come away with he gets mad at me for something. I guess some big ones, people forget hes now the most hated person on morning joe. After questioning and 2060 he called in the morning joe to make fun of me and that a good laugh. I did it what he does but rules set of rules set. If they are s given to the candidate you want to live by that with the candidate turkey to go back and watch the opening debate number one, the first person to break n the rules was the Vice President , and Chris Wallace was a blocking back for the president for the entire debate. Im just telling you what the centerright thanks and i believe he walked away fromey le that thinking that the media will not give him has never given and could never be expected to give the republican candidate affair set of rules. Lets move away from the media criticism because were nod just for any candidate, were talking about a sitting president who should be prepared for anything and for any question but lets talk about someone you brought up several times now, hugh, and that is judge Amy Coney Barrett who is the nominee to the Supreme Court. Since you brought it up twice, hugh, im going to start with ruth and it was, give us your views of how the hearings have gone, how judge. Has acquitted herself and what fears, if any, you have about a Justice Barrett. The hearings have gone, i would say, as expected, which is largely an enlightening. That is not unique to soontobe Justice Barrett, but i think theres been judge bork scaring, excuse the term, intellectual feast and a rollicking good time, theres been an increasing unwillingness among nominees to answer questions. They only answer questions, i write about this and Washington Post today, the answer questions only to the extent that they feel its incumbent on them to do it because they need senators votes. Senators have really allowed this to go way too far in my view, though there are questions that should be offlimits. And Amy Coney Barrett commended hearings understanding that she had the votes and so the wasnt about that she needed to get. Such would answer questions about what Foreign Language she spoke, she said she studied french. Who did the longer in her house. She was ake little evasive about that have to say, whether shes a racist and shes not, whether she likes warm puppies, she does. Me, too. But she wasnt going there were two sets of occupations that one was can answer questions about this public issue, answered no, i dont do policy and i dont do science and a dont do things. The second one was can answer questions about this case . No, i cant answer questions about this case unless it is pretty much brown v. Board of education because i could come before me. Nonetheless, having dreams is better than not having hearings. We got none and discover which are very telling about whether she thinks the 1965 decision saying yes married couples have a right to privacy in the consultation to obtain contraception. She wouldnt say whether that was correctly decided because she said thats a slippery slope. Interesting that for example, chief Justice Roberts was willing to go there. And so to get to the third prong of your of the question, how would mif about a Justice Barrett for my ideological point of view . Hugely worried about Justice Barrett. I wrote a book about Brett Kavanaugh called supreme ambition. Brett kavanaugh and the conservative takeover. If there is any doubt went Brett Kavanaugh joined the coat where the newest conservative takeover, there is zero doubt now, conservative takeover, mission accomplished. I want to add, i have supreme ambition. Im very glad democrats did not read this because on day 70, ruth underscored judge baird article on stare decisis. If i been the democratic caucus, kelso, i wouldve said focus on this article as ruth did in her book, and repeatedly go to what binds and what doesnt bite. He prepared to talk but chief Justice Roberts different in citizens united. It does blow the mind. There was one interesting exploitation from dick durbin who did a fine job, and judge baird on your guncontrol case and what it means to have a civic right versus an individual right. That was substantive. I thought thatdi. Was fascinati, the democrats were poorly prepared. They decided it would make this into an aca rally. That case is not good enough over the aca. When it happens do not have much credibility left but if they read supreme ambitions they would been much better prepared to give her a hard time because it is, shes a great judge. Shes going to be a great justice and the Supreme Court is going to become very boring because they will go back to being judges and notot legislators. I for one am happy with that. I am praying for boring. I am completely praying for boring but thats not going to be a boring Supreme Court, it is going to be i think conservative leaning and potentially quite energetically so, Supreme Court. And i think the reason i think the democrats did a little bit of a better job in including during the questioning about stare decisis and the questioning about the decision and again case. Block goal to try to to block her nomination . That is not going to happen. What are the best politics for us. Hugh and i agree that i dont think the Affordable Care act is in jeopardy of being entirely dismantled. I do think that as a political matter, trying to scare trying to scare voters that thats going to happen was not at all a bad strategy on the part of democrats who had a losing hand to play. I know you two could go back and forth on this all day, literally all day. Were out of time. Columnist hugh hewitt, Washington Post deputy Editorial Page Editor and author of. [laughter] Supreme Court ambition, ruth, thank you for coming on Washington Post live the first look. [laughter] raise the purple flag. Thank you. And thank you for watching Washington Post live. Well be back at 1 p. M. In the next event in our voting matters series featuring Deval Patrick and zack kra carruthers and amy lee from evanescence. For Washington Post live, thank you for watching. Have a good rest of the day. The contenders about the men who ran for the presidency, but lost and changed political history. Tonight, minnesota senator and vicepresident of the United States hubert humphrey. The contenders, this week at 8 p. M. Eastern on American History tv and cspan 3. Republicans need to pick up 21 seats in the house to gain a majority. According to the cook political report, 91 of the house races this cycle are competitive. One of them is new yorks 11th Congressional District where incumbent democratic representative max rose is running against republican nicole malliotakis. Both took part in a televised event b