Possiblement for those joining us on the live stream or by phone you can submit your questions by emailing events events mei. Edu and theres 500 of you so theres a lot of interest in saudi arabia. Ill open this question to potential of our panelists and that is, has mbs continued to get away with murder . We are at yet another anniversary of the death of journalist Jamal Khashoggi, theres been new and interesting reporting on how he was being tracked before his death and so im just going to open it up with that question. Lets start with ladies first, susanne and then ben. Thank you for the insight and its great pleasure. Mbs is in he middle of a storm right now. He is one who is considered as the responsible and who provided the who ordered the killing. So, did he get away with it . Actually depends very much on how he keeps how he plays his cards. Right now he is making more and more enemies and if you have so many enemies inside the family and kingdome and dont have support outside of the kingdom, specially from the states, you will have a problem on the long run. At the same time he doesnt deliver what he actually promised, which is not completely his fault but at the same time he promised that he will change the economy, he will reform the society, he will modernize the country and he actually promised a pleasant life to his people. The opposite is happening. The economy is in a bad situation, also certainly connected to covid19, but a lot of these are not going as smooth as he planned and at the same time a lot of people lean back and are not sure whether theyre still wanting to cooperate with him. Of you look at washington, certainly theres very close connection with trump, with the president. At the same time the Intelligence Community is not happy with this crown prince. So actually we dont we havent seen the end yet. The stakes couldnt be higher than him. He can see what the price of oil and is knows that his economy depends on it. With stakes that high how does the get out from can he get out from under the accusations . He certainly has his work cut out for him. If plow look at the challenges face the kingdom and then look at the agenda the sit for himself vision 2030 and other things he has put forward, these are things even in ideal circumstances nearly impossible to carry out. He wants to take a done trip that is almost entirely dependent for oil and make it move it into a diversified economy no country has yet succeeded in doing. He wants to everything from building to creating new industries from cinema to arms production to mining to the kingdom has no experience with a solar energy, nuclear energy, all sorts of he really sort of has his plate full and i think we should say that a local of these things are the these initiatives positive. Its hard to revision in 2030 and he is up to no good when you look at the things he wants to accomplish but hey has den so minute other nasty things along the way that will make it that much harder for him to do what was incredibly hard to do already and thats where the killing of Jamal Khashoggi comes in. Would have been difficult enough to diversity the economy, create jobs which he hopes to expand in saudi arabia. Incredibly difficult and then you do michigan like you have the murder of Jamal Khashoggi and then this week they tried from the saudi perspective said we came up with these small group of fairly low level people and well put them in prison and its a case closed for them. The last thing has to do with the brang of the kingdom and stain of Jamal Khashoggi and its going to be hard to get western companies that may have been interested originally to now come and up set up offices in kingdom. Theres a whole reputational packet that is going to drag him down. So did he get away with murder . People expected mbs would be removed from office or his father would but in another crown prince. That was all way too speculative and i think think it was possible. Let me ask then ill go to the questions. And that is why was he such threat it . As gruesome murder, it was risky, likely to be caught. So susanne you have something in your book that is interesting, you talked to a british writer who worked with khashoggi and says the house of saud operates like a mafia and jamal had signed on to the mafia. What he didnt understand its a lifelong contract. And i want both of you if you would to talk about why was it so important to eliminate jamal . We all have known him for a long time, and i never thought of him as a threat to the kingdom. A threat that was so great that he needed to be chopped up in istanbul. And so if both of you can address what it was that was so terrifying that he needed to be eliminated. Susanne . What bradley is saying is very focused. At the same time there is some truth when you say the checked into this closed society. It was a club of elite in saudi arabia. He had incredible access to the royals, very influential royals and worked with them very closely, knew all the internal discussions going on. Im sure he had lot of insight about the secrets which were kept in a very small circle of people. So this in itself is a threat possibly. Never been a real threat to the kingdom and also not to mbs are certainly not. Thats overexaggerated but i think it was completely new thing that member checked out from this inner circle and this is hough it must have been perceived from the ruler, from the crown prince, and what is openly publicly criticizing in one of the most prestigious up ins up newspaper in washington,d he is trying to create a positive image of him. That is one thing. And at the same time he represented a group which i think is indeed something the whole family is a kind of concerned about. He has close connections to the Muslim Brotherhood and the book you see a photograph which Jamal Khashoggi once gave me. It showed him and some of bin laden in a cave of tora bora so they were sitting next to each other with awe the fights from, and fighters and it was 35 years ago but its not they started at the same point. They were friends. And parted way when Osama Bin Laden then became an outlaw. They still had contact. Its not they were enemies but the idea which hey have in the very beginning was something which is today repped by the Muslim Brotherhood. The people of a country who have a say. The people whoa participate in the political process, which is certainly the as of what the saudi family is actually wanting for itself. And certainly if you have an absolute monarchy the last thing you want to have, somebody advocating for it. What he did. He check out from that and started to become a political sticker himself. Not that he could back rival but he became a political figure, possibly an attractive in the long one it the movement he was picking up with and he never considered himself as an opponent which he said in the last couple of weeks of his life. He said im just i am fighting for my country in another way than the crown prince does. He has vision for himself and wanted to set up a kind of social media connected audience or group to discuss these things. So the possible fear that the crown prince and his confidents had were this group could grow and become a threat in the long run because now saudi arabia is in the one hand a very ash to summer traditional and conservative company but using social media also we do. Theyre connected as we are. So even the survey each and every email going in and out there is a sense of something happening which you cannot roll and to modernize the not only the conversation people i mean this political conversation is something which hey have no experience i with there was a social contract that we would provide you with everything you need and you keep out of politics. So since having as changed there, including the economy is not guaranteeing a convenient life anymore nor everybody, people would possibly start to think why do i have to pay taxes . Why do he have to pay so much money for my water bill, for my electricity bill . My salary is cut back. What do i still can expect from this government . So people could possibly have doubt whether this king or ruler could provide for them in the future. And this all plays into this. And one very last thing. Khashoggi was so wellconnected. Everybody knew him. So he was a kind of interpreter of a country which nobody really understood well from outside. So he was actually the one who was shaping the image to the outside, and this was something he definitely could be very jealous about. Then what is interesting in saudi arabia is how much there is a an opposition now outside the country. That used to not be true. But we all know who they and are where they are. Why do you think he was such a threat . Up these different their is this specific thing or permanent he talked to or developed a relationship, and i think its mump simplinger than that. Straight up disobedience. I afree he was an establishment figure in saudi arabia for many decade. Traveled with prince, met with kings, traveled on airplanes with kings and outsider would call when they wanted to understand what some decision meant. You would call Jamal Khashoggi and based on who he had met and would give you what he knew or his best guess or best interpretation, and i think the fact he had been such a part of that inside circle and then on the outside and sitting in the capital of the kingdoms most important ally really responsibling, if you look at his Washington Post columned he was responsible fog real time to whatever was happening in kingdom. They would arrest activists and he would couple out with a cullll why this was a additional terrible idea. And then or not whack the priority should have been for saved saud and i really just think it comes down to a combination of his having been inside and then choosing to be outside and being such a critic the rules in saudi arabia changed. Historic include saudi arabia was always been an autocracy but a soft gloved. Nothing like syriay wow have people getting mowed down in streets by Security Forces and huge, huge numbers of people disappearing. Never that brutal. You could be critical and if you were private and werent trying to organize everything the government would like the other way but that very much changed under mbs. He change the rules and he nerve know that youre not supposed to disagree with me if youre a solved dicitizen, not publicly and he saw this in different ways which it was the arrest of the womens rights campaigners who spent camming for what he wanted to do do but he didnt them to be talking about it. Other question questioned the witness dom of he aram could and they aramco and they were tried, and the whole issue of jamal took it to another level. Reare you to go to washington and question what i want to do and they considered its threat to this international standing, his attempt to sell him in washington and they just felt he needed to be neutralized. We have a question from Julie Johnson olson. I lived in saudi arabia for years. Does anyone know the Health Status of king sal sal man . Rumors mentioned dementia. The perennial question. You can only speculate. But you can try. I have member i spoke to the other day who is a lifetime friend of the king, and he seem sees hem every couple of weeks he sees him every couple of weeks and says he is actually fine. He is not his health is certainly not perfectly stable. He also has been admitted to the hospital a couple of times but seems that he understands, he responds, dementia is not something which is really limiting him so much. If its there its in the beginning stage. Think which is much more what has a much more impact on his position is that almost nobody has access to him alone. It seems that the access to the king guess through his son, and so certainly that is the same with information which reached him. Ben . I wont claim to have a detailed medical diagnosis of king salman. You hear a whole range of things. People who meet with him and are prized how sort of well he listens and engages and also examples of him getting pup speeches and completely lose his place and not knowing where he is in his text heel. In his 80s. Whether its dementia or not im not in a place to make a diagnosis. I dont have any reason to believe that he disagrees withing my that members is mbs and i thick was deliberate joyce to deligate thats to mohammed bin sal yan and im sure he den know but every single issue in toil going on but i have no reason to believe that mbs is doing big things behind his back or that he sort of doesnt know what the general outlines are and people who have known king salman will say that a lot of this are things he would talk about being bed in, whether it was going after corrupt people and these princes who are wasting mow and getting in trouble abroad and things like that. So, i do think theres i dope their theres a lot of reason to believe mbs is not acting on salman wishes but he is not involved never it inty gritty. One issue we have soon the king step in 0 and its the palestinian issue. He comes out and says if mbs goes few far. This has been interesting with the uae. They allowed israel to fly over saudi to get to the uae. Is that the only ends you know the king has something to say or haas there been any other time where he tries to reign his favorite son in . It was bad that he was furious about the Jamal Khashoggi murder and what nose happy about that and the palestinian issue is the only topic i know where he stepped in and that seems to be really a generational issue. As long as the king is alive, i dont see that there will be normalized relations between israel and the kingdom. If there is not a twostate solution which is satisfying. But thats the only topic i know where he made a point which is obviously in the opposite of what his son would do. There is any way to know how they feel but the uae depression . Theyre very close, so they would have known about it. Is there any way to know . Does the king approve . Is this where will mbs come down . I dont know what the king is saying. Theres no way that the uae did this without running it by saudi arabia. Im sure saudi arabia has engaged with israel in various covert ways on its own. Somewhat in tandem with the uae and i think because of the complexities in domestic odd [loss of audio] uhoh. You just froze, ben. Sorry. My internet. The iae asia lotmer agile am small country with a small citizen population, much easier for the leadership to dot what i wants to do and take risks and control any domestic opposition or blowback. Saudi arabia a large complicated place, much larger population, a much more ingrained tradition of social conservativey. And a generation of salman who supported the palestinians but raised money for the palestinians and these people have been talk about the palestinian issue for decades and decades, and so i think that i dont have any reason to believe that mbs feels any of that old animosity toward israel. He aware how complicated it would be for him as opposed to who could do it people in this society dont like it, too bad, theres not that many of them and theyre easy to control. We have a couple of questions. And that is who is advising mbs . Is it possible to know who the voices are mbs listens to. This is from kristina and sam wants to know please comment on the relationship between mbs and the uae. As far as i know, is considered Something Like a little older like 20 years older than mbs, so its sad that he take its said he takes advice from him but in closer circles he has a lot of very irwould say very well educated and very well achieved people. When i was in jeddah to see those consultants of his, i saw a billion people but there are couple of people i never met and this is the head of the foundation who had tried to leave and also very closed a vialser, al cat its now that the gentlemen are obviously in his very closed circle and who he takes most advice, i dont know. Certainly when comunicates to the economic issues, he has great consultants around him and there is nobody who would its an honor on one expands at the same time people are patriots and come back and have good jobs and for instance the former the two days foreign minister was the businessman, he was the ambassador to berlin before and he is a fascinating, very wellread and very welleducated gentleman and he has a lot of great people around him. Also a big fan of npr it turns out the foreign minister. Ben . Theres a range. Hard to know who are the mbs whisperers. He has a tot of talent peopled around him. Saudis. Also some people that i think many saudis and other people scratch their heads why he keeps them so close the would ones would be involved in the nasty social media campaign, and the u. S. Government has accused him of playing a big role in putting together the operation and this is somebody that i think has very thuggish reputation in the kingdom and washington. One of mbss body guards and put in charge of the Sports Authority and these are people them mbs likes and trusts and has anyone for many years and brings them along. Not reason to believe they have great ideas and then you have the foreign consultants a very complicated issue because these people are obviously many of them incredibly welleducated and experiences and work in Different Countries give mbs reports and advice but theres a weird incentive structure where if youre a consultantout want to get your next contract and dont want to sort of tell the crown prince that his idea is not a good one or you dont want to if you say you want to fix the Education System it will take you ten years and he said give me a project that will work in six months. So theres [loss of audio] to vision making process but when you look at the results that couple out its a fairly mixed bag. Some decisions have been good others were rash. Starting a war with russia a start of Global Pandemic and did anybody advise him on that . Theres plenty of evidence he makes rash decisions and lets them play out. We have a question, considering the close relationship with trump, what it would be like, what is the perspective of mbs in the case of biden win thing presidency . Im sure this is a question on the mind offered many in riyadh as well. Its been an extraordinary relationship. Are they talking about that . Its theres a special relationship between trumps President Trumps soninlaw, jared kushner, and mohammed bin salman. Jared kushner has done a lot to make the relationship work. Its best that mew mam met bin salman was minister and would possibly become the next in line to the throne and we all remember that situation when the president and his soninlaw were hearing when at the former crown prince was remove this is a very close relationship which has i think a part which we can analyze, which is in favor for the economy, in the u. S. There is no business in the world which is bigger than the arms business between saudi arabia and the u. S. The amount of money which is involved here is beyond anybodys imagination. We saw in 2017 that President Trump and saudi arabias king signed a series of letters of intent that the kingdom would buy arms worth 350 billion over ten years. Realistic or not nobody can say. Some people would say that the kingdom is not cant pay for these arms any longer but see tame time there was a media of contract about 110 billion. This is so much money and certainly trump is a businessman and as we recall how he rested on the possible that the crown prince is involved or possibly has ordered the killing of khashoggi its very obvious that he weighs business more than anything else, and human rights or principles or anything. So, what we dont know and this is completely i think you so i untraditional that theres so much of the which is happening. Usually a visit or a telephone call or anything would go through the official instances which you have and levels you have in an administration. This is not happening here. Jared kushner picks up the phone calls mbs whenever he wishes so nobody in the state department would know what theyre talking about, what their person interests are possibly involved. We will know later on. All these things at the end of the day trying to to the public, im quite confident. Would think being a personal match. When it comes to biden i dont now how much he will stick with his words, once he would possibly be the next president. He said that he would treat the kingdom as a pariah state. I dont know whether this is very clever but at the end of the day he would not ignore human rights as much as the current president does and obvious he has a more similar look or view like president obama did. He made something which is also not really easy to understand. He was telling exact same number same amount of arms, 110 billion which was at that time the largest trade ever between saudi arabia and the u. S. , but at the same time he was acting differently politically. He made he agreed or he made the Nuclear Agreement happening in iran, and his message was, you guys have to live in that region peacefully you need to share the region somehow. So i think you can do one thing and not and dont need to agree with everything which is happening in the kingdom, which would certainly be more the path biden would take if he becomes president. But ben i wonder if the bigger question here. Thats always been two different relationships with saudi arabia and the out, one with the white house kiss opportunity, obama was probably an outlier but consistent and tchen the other one is congress. So should we really be asking if the senate flips and you have democratic majority in both houses, no matter who the president is, does that impact the relationship with saudi arabia . I think saudi arabia has a lot riding on the election, when he was a electricked the treatment of a longtime partner of the cia, a lot of people in the Intelligence Community. Jamal khashoggi, people the state department used do talk tonight, knee. Congress used to meet with him. A lot over people knew them and the way he was killed. The way theemn war has been profited has made people in the pentagon uncomfortable. Saudi pilots trained to use american jets, sometimes train on American Military bases that carried out atrocious war and theres then of course you get to congress and you have had multiple efforts to cut off the arms sales to saudi arabia over yemen which the house has always vetoed and the only sort of branch of government you can point to right now that is still really publicly fond of saudi arabia is the white house. So if trump stays mbs has four more years of more or less he wouldnt say impunity but Something Like that. I think if trump remains in the white house theres every reason to believe he will continue to give mbs the backing his that in past which is to do whatever he wants. This is a strong institutional relationship, part of that thats true we have the weapons contracts that have longterm training, training components, maintenance components, there is that that will continue but just imagine what happens if mbs comes to washington in january 2021 is biting ganymede and the lighthouses again i sit next to him and have a photo op in the oval office . Are people going to flood pennsylvania avenue with pictures of abits a really tricky time, who in Congress Wants to hang out with the crown prince of saudi arabia . They might find some people but compared to the reception that he received when he came to the United States in 2018 where he met everybody everybody was so excited about this young visionary reformer, i think its been very difficult for the saudis to try to rebuild that kind of relationship and i actually dont know, its hard to talk about administration that hasnt been elected and hasnt put policies in place but if you look at items rhetoric so far, he certainly doesnt feel like he has any political benefit from being close to the saudis and he actually seems to think he has a lot of political benefit to gain from being very critical of the saudis. Some of the things he said have been incredibly powerful and depending on what happens it will be very interesting to see how they try to move forward without election. We have a question from Julie Johnson ambs said hes interested in bringing back from pre1979 a moderate round of islamic kingdom, we seen pop culture coming into saudi arabia, also more freedom for women, can you stick to that . Is it just to appease the utes is there a deeper strategy behind all of this . I think its both. First of all, he absolutely understood because hes a young gentleman himself that the news needs to get some steam off they cannot live in this kingdom, which is actually the kingdom what the kingdom a anything forbidden you cannot go to synagogue you cannot sit in a coffee shop you cannot listen to music. You have 70 youth under 30 years they are traveling they find out they know whats possible in other countries and why they shouldnt do that in their countries . Actually that something that was some of the gift toward the younger generation, it was also kind of abwe are the same generation and will make the country great. And want to create a new modernity which is a fit for all of us. At the same time, he also understood that religion and extremism which was exported throughout the whole world was actually not working any longer and was an image spoiler and also a complete dangerous thing to do. And certainly to push back the religious was a very brave move not easy to do, he did it, nobody else did it before he has to be credited for that i think. That gave us huge leaps to the people, not only young people but everybody. About the new industries, these industries are considered as the future of the country if you want to inform this independent country and Something Else which industries could be possible to be picked up by the noon athere is the entertainment industry, then there tourist to industry. Saudi arabia was a complete isolated country, nobody else but pilgrims came to visit. Nobody thought about going to saudi arabia to see the beautiful landscapes are visit music festivals. Now its happening again because of the economy, its not possible to continue with that. Its both. To please the youth, its a winwin and at the same time provides opportunities ab about women, i think he is organizing that way completely understood that women are the catalyze or in an economy and ones who cannot provide this wealth any longer to your people. In many families its necessary that women work too so you need two incomes to feed your family. The jobs might not be the greatest, you see the women working as the cashiers of a supermarket or selling food and food trucks or something. At the end of the day, to give them permission to do that, safeguards the interim of pheromones which are the issue laying people off or if you dont hire any longer, the government has 80 of the workforce for the Government Works if you dont have any more, the next generation will not benefit from that possibility any longer. I think its a whole bunch of things, that is really a very cognitive movement and you can look at it from each angle. The older people were kind of annoyed and many would believe its not what we really need and want to have, there is critiques but at the end of the day i think its very brave and good move. I think the whole abthe idea before 1979 the saudi arabia was us open liberal country, it wasnt. Its always been like an incredibly conservative place, very very socially conservative and there were a handful of movie theaters, western women probably had a little bit more freedom and certain limited places to wear nonsaudi clothes but it was incredibly conservative place its always been a incredibly conservative place, its baked into the ab we can talk in another form about the change that took place in 1979 was an important moment but this idea that with that said i dont feel any reason to be cynical about what mbs is trying to do on the social front. You have a lot of people who say hes just letting abi dont believe that at all i dont have any reason to doubt his sincerity i dont see any reason to doubt this is the kingdom he wants to have, he doesnt want to have a kingdom where everybodys board all the time. He understands i think its one of understood the younger demographic in the kingdom he called it for what it was and realized theres an economic component all these people when they get the chance to go to baja ran but do whatever they can see movies and do all the things they couldnt do in the kingdom but i think its generally what he wants the kingdom fit to be. He wants the kingdom to be a pleasant place. They can spend their money, go to amusement parks, monster truck shows, i think growing up he was frustrated he didnt have the stuff so now he wants to bring it in and the plus is that its gonna be good for the economy. I think theres a political aspect to it and that as much as in an autocracy you have constituencies. He would like the youth to be his constituents. He wants to have their support and wants them behind him. Even though hes not, stand for election, to really tell them game over its like if you could bring mariah carey to do a concert, why do these clerics really think they have the ability to tell you what to do anymore. Of all the aspects of the reform project, its the one im most optimistic of. He called the demographics right, i think there is a market for all this stuff in the kingdom maybe it wont be as great as he expects, not as many movie theaters or entertainment cities, maybe it wont be quite as large as he expects it to be. I think will be able to look back to saudi arabia and say it was during this period that became a very different place on the social fronts. Cracks could you talk a little bit about the details of this. For me its abthe change has been remarkable and i wondered, is everybody coming along at the same speed . If your dad is conservative, he can tell you you cant drive. No matter what your crown prince tells you, you can be banned from marrying somebody thats too liberal, no matter what the crown prince tells you to do. Do you find that there is all these contradictions in peoples heads about, can i do this . I dont know. If my dad says i cant, can i not . Could you just talk about this social change and is it to all the classes . It is just to the rich or will it take a while for it to get to the poor . Unc the most obvious changes in the elite and the rich class. They have lived like that outside the country and then the most interesting is the middle class. Its pretty much as you are describing. The law has changed, the leadership on the top has given the permission to just absolutely not necessarily means that you may do that. If your father is abif your father wanted to control your movements, he still does. Simply from here, its almost impossible not to live in peace with your family. If you dont have peace with the family, you are at war with everything and everybody. So because its almost impossible to survive in that country, the family country as a clam country, tribal country and to misbehave means you become an outcast. Its almost impossible not to live in peace with the family. Women would hesitate even they would love to move out into their apartment, into a known apartment, they would not dare. Even if they are incredibly well educated and lived abroad. If the father is very strict about it, the mother is heartbroken so you dont want that. The other thing is, you have an ongoing discussion in the families. Its like in the 1670s, 80s and the western countries women have to fight for their rights. Have to fight for the space of self discrimination abthey do it differently than in our countries because suddenly they are not so offensive and straightforward they want to also have peace with their husbands. But its a constant negotiation of a process and its very odd sometimes. I can tell you too little stories, one is a friend of mine her husband is an officer, they travel the world, really kind of moderate people but he doesnt allow her to leave the city which is actually already a lot of liberty so she can roam around and go wherever she wants but this has not changed at all. She can take the children from somewhere else for holidays. The security issue is always with you. Can you guarantee that nothing happens to the children. Nobody can guarantee 100 but its the same divide i think we have the discussion in the 60s or 50s. Then there is another phenomenon, you have ladies who are like in their 20s or 30s that actually have passed the time when they have completely benefited from that reform or change, from this transformation of the country. They are too old are ready to pick it up, for instance, i have a friend, shes a banker and she lives in one of the most conservative places in a you cannot imagine, the rules are really abzero contact with men. Its a complete segregated society. So you sense that in a very lovely nice wonderful rooftop restaurant, everything looks exactly like in paris, london, new york, whatever, you are still in a small little tent with four women and men. The waiter knocks at the door and asks for permission to come inside and everybody gets wailed, she serves food and leaves again. This has not changed. She would love to marry somebody but not the person her father would have in mind for her. She put down a couple of gentlemen who propose to her because she didnt want to because abbut she would be left alone because she would not find somebody shes like caught in the middle of these past and future which is not there yet. I think a lot of people will struggle with that. Its a constant negotiation women have to fight for their liberation as we did as well. One tendency i think we tend to have is that we assume other people in other countries want to be like us. I think theres a tendency in a lot of the writing about saudi arabia to assume that everybody graduates from university really wants to be in new york or really wants to go out drinking and dancing and all the women want to be doing that, the conservative based a [audio lost] i think whats interesting about the way that mbs has done it, historically this conservative as was a conservatism was reinforced by the government. You have the religious beliefs the promotion of virtue and prevention of abhe hasnt change society but he pulled the state out of that equation. Instead of having these guys who work for this religious going around with sticks and telling women you need to cover up or were you sitting with the guy thats not the brother . Now thats all sorted and pushed to the family level. The state is not involved in that kind of policing anymore, not in the way it used to be. So a lot of this is going to have to work itself out in society which in a lot of ways comparisons abthese families need to work out what the rules are and the state should have have to be involved. I think unfortunately because the restrictions on reporters going to saudi arabia, i havent been allowed since mid2016 and if i could i would like to commit such a dynamic time. A society in the midst of such dramatic change and its not something you can write about from abroad, you have to get there and talk to people and see people and i dont think outside we see enough of that complexity of whats going on in this society. Vertigo from the ground to the air and pick up eight topic in the last eight minutes. abwe get a question, do you think mbs has a personal vendetta against iran or is he able to dialogue, especially since the u. S. Did not escalate things with iran at this time. The first part of that . Do you think mbs has a personal vendetta against iran or is he amiable to dialogue . During the King Abdullah times there was a personal relationship between King Abdullah and the clayburgh johnny. This helped a lot to coordinate, to settle issues, when they became difficult. This kind of relationship, or this kind of personal relationship doesnt exist right now any longer. Which is difficult. At the same time, there is contact on a diplomatic level view toward iran is a national issue. People feel threatened by iran. They play their cards really smart. While mbs, the government, the alliance, is burning itself in a lot of resources causing terrible atrocities on the ground in yemen, a made its also important with such small leverage in yemen, and only slowly stepping out stepping up and stepping into this conflict and became so important for the groupies which has not been the case before. This is how they work and do all over the place. Its true. I see that but i think they are not really understanding that this could be solved by negotiations. I think the iranians would because they know how to play but at the same time of the saudis do not provide a plan, which is interesting enough for the iranians they would go forward they attach with a small group or religious group or shia and support them with more, a military consultant. This relationship grows. This is what theyve done in lebanon, this is what theyve done in yemen, in syria, so many other places and its worked very well. If you really want to have a shift here you need to give iran a complete different place in that region. You need to open the whole package of sanctions and everything so this country is almost suffocated and they need to live again and if you dont provide this opportunity, and i think the Saudi Arabians have a lot of influence here, this will go on forever. Its deadly for these countries and what you see in syria now and in lebanon, what you see in yemen this is all a consequence of these proxy wars. Yes its personally but at the same time it can be done by negotiations and i hope that the government of saudi arabia tries to find out the right path and certainly only goes with the help of the americans. I once heard irans Prime Minister say you know what our problem is, we are too big for the saudis and we cant change that and its not our fault but thats what the problem is. Its clear from the way that mbs talks about iran that he personally doesnt have any fondness for the country but theres a lot of Strategic Issues i dont think its just a personal beef. Iran is like a smaller country without saudi arabia thats managed to get tremendous influence that greatly outweighs its resources and all these countries around saudi arabia and that makes people very nervous. When you look at what theyve done in yemen, syria, lebanon, iraq, the attack they carried out last summer. Saudi arabia has a lot of very legitimate reasons to distrust the iranians. What they do about that, i think it comes back to, mbs. [indiscernable] hes not been doing this for a very long time. He doesnt have tremendous experience as a statement and hes a saudi nationalist. The most biggest, most powerful most important country in the region and nobody should push them around, this is the way he sees it. It infuriates him that the iranians have managed to do this. The question goes forward is how long is he stick to these maximalist demands the way they did in yemen basically worn yemen only wins when iran leads and the hobees give up everything they want in the war than they will have peace. They walked out of it back but maybe as time goes forward mbs will realize, i cant actually make these kinds of demands against iran and when we have to find some other way forward and find some accommodation. We seen hints of that especially somebody mentioned the fact that the United States did not immediately come to saudi arabias aid and not obama iran to punish them. Been, heabroll the tape back second. After the abit became clear the United States was not going to come punish iran for the sake of the saudis, they reached out. There were back channel talks led by the iraqis and pakistanis that didnt result in any sort of summit or formal agreement but they did succeed for at least a period of bringing down the temperature a little bit i think thats one good indication that mbs may have realized that experience but sometimes the diplomacy works, sometimes you have to find more practical ways to try to deal with ongoing situations. They could be very interesting to see as he is in power for longer periods to deal with the iranian issue. We are at 10 59 am, im afraid to go forward although we have lots of questions. Let me ask my host, can we take one more or do we have to wrap it up . I am going to then ask one more question because i can if i want to. All of you can stay with us for the last question. This is from samara, given the absence of a political agenda to accompany mbs drive to diversify the economy, and essentially envy amodel of the economy, transformation succeed . Will people except to eventually start paying taxes without some sort of political accountability representation . We can go pretty fast with these last questions. Sadly thats the whole idea of the monarchy and the system and the social contract. It worked as long as the saudi government could provide. Can they still provide for much longer . We dont know. At the moment it doesnt look so great the economy is really bad because oil prices are so low. Renewable energy is not there yet to replace it and the new industries are opened up. I dont see at all the saudi government would absolutely surprise everybody up the saudi government gave the people of saudi arabia are participation instead of this constitution which they made so far. What i think is that this is the big question from the next coming 10 years, we should all hope its working out because an instable saudi arabia, nobody wants. I think part of the western democracy we like to think that you cant do Economic Development without Political Development and without political participation and democracy. I think the world record is pretty mixed. You look at china, singapore, mbs abbut has managed to do one of the things mbs has wanted to do. Really is can he deliver on the economy . That i think is the huge challenge and i dont think inside saudi arabia you have huge moments or people calling for political purposes a [inaudible] we got all the way to, am i going to have the same standard of living . I think the bread and butter issues matter, is this new crown prince, deliver the economy, all of these grand plans and initiatives, are they going to make our lives better . I think the problem is really if we get 10 years, five years, 20 years down the road and a lot of these young people are still unemployed, its gonna make it much more difficult, is there to be democratic uprising . Its sort of impossible to speculate but i think the big challenge is not on the politics its really on the economy and this is what people are watching him for. I would like to thank both of you Susanne Koelbl who wrote behind the kingdoms veil and ben hubbard who wrote mbs. This is recorded for any of you who missed the beginning from the end he will find it on the website. Thank you all. Thank you so much. Tonight on booktv and prime time latino studies professor geraldo cadaver explores the relationship between latinos and the Republican Party over the past four years. Law professor Jennifer Taub offers her thoughts on the repercussion average americans face when the rich break the law in order to accumulate more wealth. Political commentator Candace Owens offers her thoughts on why black americans should vote republican fox cofounder Matthew Iglesias argues that America Needs to increase its population by 1 billion in order to compete in the global marketplace. And American History professor claudia allsop looks at the federal governments forced migration of native americans to territories west of the mississippi in the 19th century. That all areas tonight on cspan2 booktv, find more Schedule Information at booktv. Org or on your program guide