Transcripts For CSPAN2 House Hearing On The Spread Of Online Misinformation 20240712

Media, National Security and intelligence. This is an hour and a half. Without objection the chair may declare recess at any time. Before i begin, i want to go through the usual housekeeping matters. First, todays session will be conducted entirely on an unclassified basis. All participants should refrain from discussing any classified information. The committee is conducting the virtual hearing in compliance with House Resolution 965 and regulations for the committee proceedings. Its being broadcast live on the committees website. Because the threat posed by the pandemic is ongoing we will do this remotely to ensure the safety of the witnesses, members, staff and public. While we wish we could return to all standard inperson events, health and safety particles dictate we find alternate means of carrying out our obligations. Okay. So, let me remind members of a few remote procedures. First, consistent with the regulations the committee will keep microphones on mute. Members are responsible for muting themselves when they seek recognition or they are recognized for their five minutes. Because there sometimes delays, i would ask members and witnesses to ensure the last speaker finished. Second, you must have your cameras on if you step away from the presenting please leave your camera on. Third if you encounter technical difficulties contact Technical Support through the channels established prior to the hearing and staff will work to get you back up and running as soon as possible. Consistent with past practice i will recognize members for their five minutes in order of seniority starting with those. Thank you again for your patience as we proceed under these extraordinary circumstances. The vast majority of the committees work takes place behind closed doors but we also have the responsibility to take public testimony from those outside of the u. S. Government and inform the public about the growing trends that could endanger the nation involved in shortterm and longterm. Building on prior hearings today we examine the risks posed by misinformation, conspiracy theories and online. They are now transnational. They can originate overseas or here at home but once theyve taken root and have begun to circulate, they can advantage with baseless misleading claims. Over the past several years the picture has emerged while the threat from the media and online opera test is real, we cannot ignore the threat from within the of the online ecosystem and audiences remain vulnerable to homegrown actors that spread falsehoods of their own. If left unchecked there could be irreversible damage not only to the nations discourse, which we as a society discern fact from fiction. Misinformation and conspiracy theories predate the internet but the nature can propel it inaccurate or manipulated content, misleading claims and outright lies. The leading platforms have made changes on the policies and capabilities since 2016 but theyve not changed the foundational features of the platforms that expose users and even recommend to them the extremes, sensational or emotionally charged content. The algorithmic engines that counter the platforms designed to keep us growing are optimized for human attention. Sophisticated and difficult and sometimes even for their own desires to fully understand the algorithms are undeniably effective at the mission keeping users on the platforms as long as possible. Its a surprise no one that controversial, extreme or untrue content often engenders the strongest engagement creating Fertile Ground for conspiracy theories and misinformation to cross the internet fringes into the mainstream. This has all come to a peerless head and weve all been Conspiracy Theory delusions and twisted beliefs falling under the banner. The precepts are arcane and a byzantine but they echo antisemitic tropes and often amplify White Supremacy, all while the existence of an allpowerful evil elites who terrific children and must be defeated. Against the backdrop of the Global Pandemic associated lockdowns and preventive measures to protect the health of our communities, the movement has witnessed a spike in visibility and followers. The notorious video with false conspiratorial themes and misinformation about covid19 was boosted by supporters and earned some 8 million views prior to removal from social media. Its incumbent on all of us to understand how and why it went into public view because it isnt just a Conspiracy Theory but its a violent worldview with a devoted following of adherence is who believe anybody reckoning awaits their perceived foes. A recent west point report warned about the potential escalating terrorist style attacks driven by these beliefs and affiliates have already engaged in realworld violent acts. Hundreds of miles to investigate whether a pizza parlor was Holding Children captive in its basement. There was no basement, there were no captives and thankfully no injuries despite the selfproclaimed investigator firing his weapon. A woman was arrested after attacking twos strangers in texas. A man is accused of murdering a new york city law in march of last year believing that he was part of a deep state which the movement demonizes for its alleged party against the president. The same man wanted to carry out a citizens arrest. In response to the openly violent and hateful rhetoric, the social Media Companies have begun to respond. Just hours ago youtube announced a platform wide prohibition targeting the Conspiracy Theory and since July Facebook and twitter initiated large purges of affiliated pages, groups and accounts. These are necessary preliminary steps. But such responses are made more difficult when conspiracy theories are at least partially egged on by the president of the United States. Just this week, he twice deleted a Conspiracy Theory alleging Osama Bin Laden was still alive and president obama had navy seals killed as a part of a coverup. Such a landscape unfortunately remains right right and with foreign adversaries. Dhs and fbi warmed amplification of misinformation about voting ended the pandemic are part of the Disinformation Campaign originating overseas this election cycle. Americans are voting right now in the midst of a pandemic. It could take weeks or days to count the votes after election day and that will be especially susceptible to conspiracy theories and misinformation especially if amplified by malign foreign actors which could potentially cast out the legitimacy of the outcome itself or make us doubt the viability of our free and open democracy. The scenario goes to the heart of the National Security and oversight mandates congress on the committee. Social Media Companies bear some responsibility but the private sector alone cannot reverse these trends. The government must remain a credible partner to recognize and address the threats also. We must be clear that the conspiracy theories can arise followers to create active terror. Each of us have personal responsibilities to do what we can to restore trust and genuine expertise and authoritative information, do not share the claims with how quickly they catch fire and build bridges between the rising channels that exist on both online and offline so we can try to occupy the same shared reality once again even if we have different views about how to turn that reality into a Brighter Future and to step outside of our own personal information silos where we no longer seem to agree on the same set of facts. I want to thank the witnesses for joining us today and i look forward to the discussion on these issues. Lets move to opening statements. We will go alphabetically by last name first. Doctor Donovan Research director at the Kennedy School Shorstein Center on public policy. Second, the disinformation fellow at the Wilson Center and next the Vice President of the group and melody smith, head of an analysis. Welcome again to all of you. Thanks for your participation at work. Doctor donovan, let me begin by recognizing you for five minutes. Thank you for having me and it is a pleasure to be here in my house testifying for you all and thank you, chairman schiff. I think that it is an important topic. The information spun by the operatives targeted people seeking information, information about the election, the pandemic and the protest. As the Research Director at the shore and steameassurance team a team that is analyzing manipulation campaigns. Today im going to speak about the sectors shouldering the true cost of misinformation at scale. In january, 2020, facebook published a really important statement and i quote, in the absence of regulation, facebook and other companies are left to design their own policies. We have based hours on the principle that people should be able to hear from those who wish to leave them. Policies like this push for great responsibility onto the public and onto other professional sectors facebook goes on to stipulate paid advertising will have to abide by Community Standards. What happens when the political and media elite blanket with falsehood. In these cases, advertising isnt necessary for spreading lies to millions because all they need is a platform to work exactly as designed. Who then is responsible for explaining why a consumer was exposed to certain falsehoods and who is responsible for making public direction when the falsehoods are identified . Yesterday we saw facebook and twitter refuse refuse to let the services be used to deliver the material. Over the past year Platform Companies have taken similar actions on white supremacist manifestoes and misinformation. It will take some time for the moderation to become a part of the design of social media just as it took a decade for the manipulators and the disinformation to scale the attack. Recently facebook former director gave testimony before congress that suggested a new policy framework for assessing the negative effects on society. He compared social media to the Tobacco Industry because both focused on increasing the capacity for addiction by slowly modifying the products over time. Legislation about smoking had to move beyond the rationale that it was an individual choice and accept that Secondhand Smoke had Public Health effects. For some time, families, insurance companies, employees and businesses paid the price for smokings effects on society. Our Research Team has identified for impact zones charged with cleaning up after the damage caused by unmoderated, unregulated and unmanageable misinformation and conspiracy. Journalists, for instance, have had to adapt over the last four years to the normalization of misinformation on social media and have developed a misinformation beat. But covering this information is a drain on the newsrooms resources which could be better spent on sustaining journalism rather than moderating the content on the platform. The second area of impact is Public Health on medical professionals, increasingly including the who and turn to my Team Assistance in dealing with medical misinformation. The doctors shouldnt have to become online influencers in order to correct misinformation pushing miracle cures and bogus medical advice. When conspiracys link up with medical misinformation, it can be especially difficult to advocate for the truth. Third, civil society. We are now in the position where racialized disinformation is a seasoned tactic of domestic and foreign influence operations. Racialized disinformation refers to those that identify with communities of color or use racism to boost polarization on these issues. Recently testifying about these issues at a hearing in june, she highlighted how Tech Companies have hidden behind clarion calls without doing enough to protect the subjects with the medical misinformation, hate speech and harassment on social media. Last, Law Enforcement personnel and First Responders are unfairly shouldering the burden of rumors and lies that are being spread and for many permeated by the calls to action including the tragic events in kenosha. Law enforcement are at a disadvantage when attempting to do their job rumors and conspiracy theories spreading like digital wildfire online and i will close by saying rather than holding onto the nostalgia for the time that media wasnt harmful, its worth asking what would it take to un invent social media so we could chart the course for the what we want, the web that promotes safety, equity and democracy. Thank you. We will now go to ms. Janco it is an honor to testify before you today on the degradation of our misinformation ecosystem and its exploitation by maligned actors. This is a threat that is dismantling democracy. As americans right now exercise their democratic rights, its critical the nation is informed about how disinformation might blend their voice and vote. I studied this through the lens of russian influence operations. My work has led me to an unsettling conclusion. Not only has the u. S. Government and social media platform all but abdicated their responsibility to stop the threat of the foreign disinformation, domestic disinformation now runs rampant. Its amplified in the media, online, in the halls of congress, and from the white house itself. It does our adversarys work for them leaving us vulnerable to continue manipulation and leaving our democracy imperiled. Today i will outline three trends that exemplify the information space. The first is the increased use of information laundering to deliver foreign disinformation. Today maligned actors like russia are increasingly amplifying the narrative by using local voices or organizations to conceal the origin and runs legitimacy to a given maligned narrative. Perhaps the most wellknown example and won the committee knows intimately is the nexus of conspiracy theories related to ukraine and Vice President joe biden. These unsubstantiated and misleading narratives promoted by sel selfinterested and corrt individuals taking power and personal gain were endorsed by the president s advisors traded by portions of the media and legitimized in the halls of congress. Individuals that serve as a source for these areas have since been discredited, sanctioned and revealed to have active connections to the Russian Intelligence Services and yet this week we are still talking about the theories. The use of local actors and information laundering makes cracking down on disinformation through content moderation much more difficult given the First Amendment protections. This is why they take advantage of social platforms and its infrastructures to see the maligned narratives and contribute to the trend conspiracy convergence. One theory is exposed to others. This year as americans search for answers about the coronavirus pandemic, closed spaces online have become a ground for amplifying disinformation. As my co panelist and i found conspiracies run rampant across platforms and culminate between the communities and indoctrinate new members. In particular this is a problem on facebook groups. Facebook has made changes to soften the phenomenon but they leave aside the most pernicious source of the disinformation, highprofile accounts to which the Community Standards seemingly do not apply. President trump pushes content including falsehoods about the safety and security of the mailin ballots which is expressly against the terms of service to nearly 30 million users on his page alone. Unlike with the facebook disease might imply, Disinformation Campaigns do not begin and end on election day. They are built over time trafficking and emotion and increase trust to undermine the democratic process as a whole. When our information ecosystem gets flooded with highly salient junk that keeps us scrolling and commenting and angrily reacting, civil discourse suffers. Our ability to compromise slavers. Our willingness to see humanity and one another suffers. Our democracy suffers. But facebook profits. In 2019, facebook generated 98 of its revenue, a whopping 69. 7 billion from ads. And finally, the third trend relevant to the female panel today is disinformation often targets women and minorities. We know that the ira disproportionately targeted black voters to suppress the black vote. We know that the kremlin targeted women with sexualized Disinformation Campaigns to drive them from participation in public life and today, and ongoing Wilson Center project has shown increase in individuals spreading the meaning of false narratives against senator harris ahead of election day. These campaigns are meant to affect american women and minorities participation in the democratic process. Every american should categorically reject them. Overall, these trends mean foreign adversary is no longer need creativity or brute force to be successful. They need only to sit back and watch, regurgitating and amplifying whats already endemic to our society. Nineteen days before voting closes and the 2020 election i believe we are more vulnerable to the online disinformation from both foreign and domestic sources than ever before. Any of the recommendations we have discussed today need to have an underlining recognition that any government that claims to fight disinformation originating from outside of its borders cannot do so while it embraces the same methods within them. Disinformation is a threat to democracy no matter what Political Party and benefits. It is long past due we begin to address the challenge to the foundation of the country as its values. My written testimony details the changes necessary to heal the information ecosystem and i look forward to discussing them with you later today. Thank you so much. Thank you, mr. Chairman, members and co panelists. Im honored to appear before the committee especially during this critical time in the nations history. Im here today to lay out the threats as i see them for the range of factors both foreign and domestic with false information to influence and manipulate the american people. My knowledge of the threats is informed by the decade i spent at the cia as an officer and a director of an analysis observing the country under the public and the democratic administration. Its also informed by the years that ive spent since leaving the disinformation investigation and the private sector. Many of these foreign actors are targeting those to manipulate american citizens into the great standing of the world and credibility and the institution ive also witnessed the rise of foreign and domestic commercial entities like Foreign Governments to make america more divided than ever in doing so lines their own pockets and now with local champions and democracies around the world to embrace and deploy tactics that sounds like foreign influence operations and in the United States Political Division to promote those of institutions that should be working for them they know that peddling misinformation works the room meeting fall consequences and nobody your recourse the Foreign Government aid to mr. Group way for profit entity to see those cluttered with voices and in a Global Pandemic the situation could not be more dire in the biggest. A false information history and we are doing it to ourselves the Technology Platforms have failed to adequately address the problem while the truth takes longer and then it curates those lies to make the users easy targets americans are losing trust we are desperate for information certain groups really cannot trust those traditional institutions including the media who were now threatened blaming the events that they cover. And with more extreme ideas. And those that are on the rise. Just three years going on a fringe forum to attack white supremacist to the mainstream talking point to those in the country. Those that support the pandemic those translate into violence and the targeting of young people in foreign actors take advantage of that. We can still take action but the longer we wait the more difficult it will be as actors of taken their time to build their capabilities and tactics we look forward to answering your questions. Now to the last analyst. Hello i am grateful to have the opportunity to share my research with you today i have watching it and fall from a Conspiracy Theory into mean discourse when i began researching it was just one of a long list of communities that was part of us election and integrity now it is the biggest threat to Public Institutions and democratic processes. To support those conspiracy theories in late 2017 and as mentioned that the global only cabal that government and media and finance to represent that journalistic role with the good and the evil in the colon it with the biggest misconceptions that i hear and then to be infiltrated by foreign actors. And this is been true a different mindset of time and the reason is the undermining of facts and truth such as the integrity of the elections and Human Trafficking in the global the teen pandemic and with that antisemitic of individuals and organizations concerns around the subsection to have an appetite of realworld coordinated action. Three things i would like to highlight that has permeated the mainstream in many countries and highly adaptable and then to become very difficult and on the mainstream element where we found was the most we have ever studied on those that relied upon mainstream with messaging content. And they became public in their sharing and Online Support have mobilize. And that this is no longer the case. And then with the ability to shape shift. And with those conspiracy theories with that sheer volume and then be adapted to the new cycle. s for 100 it works of a wide range of accommodations and then with one cluster of accounts those topics that seem irrelevant and with exit as the alternative medicine to name a few. And those that are the unfortunate gateway. And as the it of the Conspiracy Movement it is difficult to take meaningful action. s and then remains to be seen how it can will be obliged at such a rapid pace. And with the number of tactics to evade detection much of that to be removed from social media platforms section is not appropriate policy for this content and then to researchers to understand how that is evolving in the public institution. Thank you very much for that testimony. To all panelist thank you for bringing your expertise to bear today. Let me start if i can where you left off. As indicated with other conspiracy theories groups to the individuals how do the platforms go after . With youtube and twitter and other aspects does that mean ultimately it gets back to the algorithmic amplification of extreme content . That is an interesting question and a few things could be made by social media platforms that is a reminder the outside the Mainstream Media is platforms to become increasingly popular of these conspiracy theories it was social media with these ideas and to garner support. And with that restriction in the content and with the new audiences to algorithmic reinforcement. That content piece with the impact are pushing that content to a fringe platform. And in mainstream social media and with new communities and then to remove the financial incentive thank you for the question. Perhaps at the same time you can respond to the play that is made of factors in the United States to amplify this false content and then to amplify this so what challenge does that pose to the platform in the political speech the elected officials including the president of the United States for the purveyors of this false information and Conspiracy Theory. And what they are recently doing because it is such a mixed bag scattered shot approac approach, essentially trying to make up for lost infrastructure so the plates ability made of resilience of that platform are important in terms of whatever approach policy will take any other factor is the way in which facebook has this junk new zero two recommend extensive reporting about this but the recommendation of these groups that is producing that we have a hard time studying what is being served in primary groups these can be tens of thousands of not hundreds of thousands of people so it can be a difficult challenge to understand the extent and scope of this. Of course to monetization and those incentives is an important aspect because some of these groups and influencers of content and if it doesnt make money then they make other content. Thats important to understand especially talking about which is a white propaganda feedback group. You know where its coming from. This is what you are saying in terms of when we see certain politicians using social media as a lever to cause that misinformation cascade throughout the entire ecosystem, this is a very important topic to create an enormous waste of resources by shifting the intention of journalist to write an entire story about something because that piece of information or that propaganda is now already reaching millions of people in the points about this over time is important as well because this has been going on for a decade. Social media is no longer knew. It has matured into the fullest form now and we know what the patterns of behavior are. That cascade effect is what im talking about with the true cost of information who pays to clean up all of that . Its an enormous task. Ultimately Platform Companies are showing they are capable when they want to be and we need to encourage that behavior as conspiracies converge and then the train of information so we have to think about how to dismantle those rails to have any impact with the entire media ecosystem. Thank you mr. Chairman and to our witnesses. Want to direct my questions that you said two things number one that it is misinformation is demand telling on dismantling democracy. Please everybody put your microphone on mute. She said that misinformation is dismantling democracy i am skeptical of that. But she says something that were fight me even more that government is fighting misinformation and a sense that were said approvingly may be going up in the seventies and i am allergic in the same sentence whether evaluating or determining this information and with liberalism so we should be in this information fighting misinformation so what do we do and that may or may not be a problem so those are my two questions. Fashion want to see the evidence that they see this information in a meaningful way to dismantle and then go down that path and then secondly how do we get in the business of figuring out of what this misinformation is . And then the previous president that i respected very much and that that turned out not to be true so then you get my point with the dismantling of democracy so what do we actually do to fix that . Thank you congressman. Because that term is the foundation to places like russia or even singapore i do not believe that government should be in the business either in some of those solutions and the second but related to evidence of the dismantling the first is related to the kidnapping plot against the governor of michigan the social media platforms. A huge role to allow the group to organize with that information to organize and frankly is a woman who has been getting harassed a lot lately were sexualized information i am acutely aware of how those threats can transfer in two oh one realworld violence is meant to keep women and minorities not only participating in the democratic process by exercising your vote but keeping us from public life. There is another example from the documentary how the Trump Campaign use Cambridge Analytica to target black voters with Voter Suppression ads during the 2016 election. It affects peoples participation not just fake news on the internet and in my written testimony of how online action leads to realworld action and is increasingly. I dont have a lot of time. Do you think those examples that you offered up like the governors plot of kidnapping and your other example passes the test . We get into the spanishamerican war 130 years ago because of William Randolph hearst. And we have Voter Suppression forever and i understand the platform they have scaled you sure they wouldnt have up without the social media. And with that organization of these groups without with the targeting of these messaging with the most foldable and to take action and those what they are against the democratic participation. I would love to continue this information without oversight and i would like to continue this conversation and what we do about it. Thank you 12 you know what we were talking about and with that campaign for president spreading lies is now the biggest ease of communication of the anonymous nature of and of this information . But i am happy to yield to you joan. Looking at how white supremacist are organized and i completely agree they have been with us very early adopters all along the way white supremacist of different technologies and have use them with organizing and then also creating more targeted messaging for recruitment. And because they make money doing this they broadcast their events because there is a case the vigilante groups at the border with mexico that were hunting people and arresting them in podcasting it through facebook life and all the while asking for donations. Is not the case that somehow White Supremacy has shifted. I will say its a different set of advantages to using social media and not having anyone at the control switch to say this is content to mobilize other people and also incentivize this kind of behavior. And then to make it more believable to they succeed because of the type of things they are talking about. He used have to do something really big in public to get on the cover of the town paper. And they have been able to circumvent and deliver that messaging directly. In 2015 when i was researching White Supremacy with the dna ancestry test when you search on google for a White Nationalist it didnt take a tour site about White Nationalism but took you directly to the Message Boards with a welcome you with open arms we have fought really hard as researchers to get those platforms to realize that type of recruitment strategy has important consequences especially talking about dylan roof who entered into a conversation of White Supremacy through searching on google and other Search Engines for black on white crime that was for the algorithm of the book. Thank you for your work and for being here. Mr. Castro. You are a muted. We cannot hear you were still having trouble i will come back to you next and hopefully we can figure out that glitch before we do. So lets move on. Thank you mr. Chairman my appreciation to the members of this panel which i find extraordinary and provocative. To preface my question with a confession which is on some level have a difficult time getting my arms around the magnitude of this problem because of the sheer absurdity of the conspiracy premise importantly how could anybody in their right mind believe that . You are all incredible experts were what i am interested in hearing not the sociology but the psychology. What are the characteristics for people to be receptive to be absurd or ridiculous or harmful to be absurd or ridiculous or harmful so i ask this question it is important we dont just misunderstand the system but what causes the individual to buy in . So perhaps you came the closest, but any of you that have inside i would appreciate it. I would be happy to jump in know that. Its interesting that you say that i completely and wholeheartedly agree with that its so mainstream and with that content is such a mainstream topic and the content of Child Sexual Exploitation and trafficking and free the Children Movement that there is a global elite of cobol and those that are organizing the child sex trafficking does exist so that content on social media the issue is the way that it functions so it leads the user down pathway and to be impact on the psychological level but in that discipline theres a lot of time at the societal levels some of these are basic human desires and needs and to feel like we belong to something that it is that this natural human desire to still be on the right side of history is something i dont think we can take lightly. So thats basically an argument of the innate desire to become tribal is met by this. But it stops short of helping me understand how it is used set aside all reason. I have a fanatic member of the tribe but it doesnt require me to set aside all my rationale to do that. One of those individual vulnerabilities to allow people to see you bed and say that is blue . I can chime in the way which Political Polarization plays into this to say that when political elites and media elites to with the wink and a nod suggest this is okay and appropriate comment on content so word in specific there are so many ways and the theory involves was the jailing of Jeffrey Epstein and all of the intrigue about his island and beliefs so when we talk about these conspiracy theories having a kernel of truth is for anybody to go find these easter eggs. With this element of participation that is rewarded and then to bring information back to these online groups spending hours and hours a day and repackaging that is a Youtube Video so people can follow along but because this Conspiracy Theory evolves with corruption it is a live wire coming in from understanding on the anti semitic troops that only going into the theory and you start to dig around and you know what they are do you understand what the language calls for. I yield back. We just want to let our viewers know in the republican members regrettably they have decided not to that is a disservice to their constituents and more broadly to the discourse lets try again with mr. Castro. I just switched out from my computer to my phone. As we analyze these issues essentially social media like other industries produce a product and in this case it may be damaging to our health and democracy in Public Discourse over the past few years at the hispanic caucus take on the media and the entertainment produces groups of people but the product being produced is damaging and how you deal with that over the course of American History the best counter to a why is truth but we presuppose what everybody is attuned to and ultimately to sort that out for as a senior social media its more of the asymmetric conversation people that are two different channels they may agree with her get suckered into and then and up leaving it without being exposed or confronted and by the time they are they disbelieve the sources for countervailing on countervailing information so its important for me is to believe and in the United States where you have to battle between fact and fiction and the truth and a lie . What is the state of American Media trying to figure out if regulation is appropriate . So as legislators as we try to figure out what our goal is taking away tax incentives is a common marketplace are not . There is some great writing on this aware that has written an interesting piece when i think about the internet but the third point is the title of this hearing we are living through a moment of the abundance of information and inaccurate information so she going to Google Search and type in any keyword it ranks and sources and prioritizes certain information to return it to you in the midst of the early part of the pandemic when we were still calling this coronavirus we saw the unbelievable search of urls using the term coronavirus as we switched covid19 we saw another spike with that keyword. And then you start to figure out very quickly maryland covid19 relief if you try to find information about unemployment or where to get tested research on maryland covid19 you might bump into this which was the front made it look like you were applying for information and unemployment but really submitting information to a firm that word call you to give you Legal Services we are talking 100,000 more domains in that moment in some instances we dont know what they would use it for but in other instances trying to get people to think they would buy masks or sanitizer toilet paper or apply for government funding. Part of my interruption only have 25 seconds left but with government being heavyhanded in terms of regulation to being completely withdrawn to somewhere in the middle what do you recommend . Government needs to incentivize Platform Companies for better moderation and duration the platforms should be deploying librarians at the front and to make sure when you search for something on the platform and it has the money or your life consequence you should be getting true and correct information. Thank you to all the panelist i do believe the misinformation and threat to democracy also now you can believe whatever you want is not social media or interference with politicians such as the president taking advantage but its also a Business Model like fox news to monetize a is a type of journalism from that perspective. And with his absence in a more extreme way is any editorial function at all. Thats a breakdown of institutions or any structure in media was some obligation to stand behind what you publish of those platforms that have exemptions from any liability. So the questions that i have this problem that you are articulating this misinformation is of that part of a broader change of the whole media landscape . And then number two to the extent we get a deference to decide this is a Public Function and then trying to maintain some standards without censorship. So if you like him speaking a lot but yes we do have ideas with this feedback when people are charging the platforms with censorship and doing content moderation it all mattered ten years ago when people didnt speak about social media or where i get my news. This is the fundamental change social media is and additive. Let me be a little more direct. Showed we illuminate that exemption or liability waiver for platforms thats why newspapers do and and then with the fox news model. And that the question and essentially on behalf of the public and obviously with legislative authority and how that delegated to the tech giants. Im very much in favor of a new agency with that actual impact with the information in economy coming up with recommendations. Right now i dont think it is advisable to restructure without a plan how to go ahead as platforms of social media provides in the way people communicate with each other it is the features they become a problem in the way it is sorted. By march they can pay to play to push the information across the platforms so we do need regulation around the advertising component and honesty not just content who is behind it and who pays for it because we have a type of transparency and people not know enough how they have the information or what to trust. I yield back. I will jump in on the fairness doctrine i the welcome mat but also i think that there is a point to be made of journalism as a public good we spend 1. 35 per person per year that i need to tell any members here the corporation for public broadcasting does in the news deserts with local stations some of the only local journalism that is trustworthy that exist and in that dichotomy so there is a vacuum for that junk news from foreign and domestic sources and then with the new agency i am of the opinion we word benefit from the Oversight Agency to make sure that we could create a new set of rules for those that are equitable because right now we rely on is researchers like the four of us and to find this out and with the platforms tell us so i dont trust the whole picture so i would like to empower a whole new oversight body to make sure there is transparency and the platforms are doing their Due Diligence by their users. Can you hear me . Thank you so much and to the panel for this discussion. We had jihadism on the web as a threat to National Security and in some ways it is parallel to what we see with crazy magical thinking and blackandwhite morality and those conspiracy theories in my understanding is we have done a decent job dealing with the social media influence basis to some extent is there any lesson to learn from what we did there with this theory . Because they are actively thinking about that we you and maybe we should i would like to know how. These are great questions. So on that potential restriction this is a different issue. And then to have these just a new games to be for the social media platforms and the propaganda we saw from groups like isys violent and local and horrific in nature and Community Guidelines and the issues with that content was the gray area when the recruiters realize they were turned off by the propaganda and then to emphasize the Health Care System that was set up so it is this great area so it does not violate Community Guidelines in any way. So what we have seen this far target violence to say usually its content that can induce realworld harm and it is in small proportion i am not a policymaker and how to restrict the content that there is that does not contribute to Community Guidelines but it really does play a large role for those that are drawn into more content. Another quick yes or no question can we rule out there any foreign actors fueling social media conspiracy theories . Absolutely not. That is an easy answer. Thats what i thought i notice the movement has spread to europe. I have not seen it. Has it spread to russia as well . Thats a good question. Researching and 2017 different platforms and these are not necessarily ones with the facebook equivalent i would be surprised for those that are adjacent to those in russia but it is rapid and terrifying. This is an excellent topic we should drill down on getting closer to the election talk about foreign influence and im concerned and finally the last question, are there ways we could take the Conspiracy Theory with other ideas or stories to cause them to collapse on their own . So can it embed other crazy things within those theories . I was going to say briefl briefly, one of the things with certain platforms is reinforce the circulation through algorithms and recommendation systems that respond to that kind of excitement. There is an inverse system of rewards that they would react to that and how it may or may not disrupt communities and one of the key features is we keep the conversation going. There is already a lot of backandforth and chatter about what these things mean it doesnt mean one specific idea part of it is a discussion itself. Thank you. Thank you mr. Chairman and to our witnesses for being with us today. My connection has been a little bad i apologize if it still is. First of all, thank you for reminding a social media allowed the platform for those that would plot to kidnap the us governor to take place that is extremely important we talk about threats to our democracy, we certainly know that women and blacks and other minorities are always targeted. There may be different means but the mechanism is usually the same which is to instill fear. So i do believe this is a significant threat to our democracy. It such an important discussion and i would think whether it is foreign interference through 2016. Do you tell me the Lessons Learned so what lessons are learned and what are the gaps that you need to have with the immediate focus on or bring attention to . I am definitely going to be brief and over to cindy who can expand as well. Thank you for your recognition plagued by a misinformation and then to attract those are the off platform sites used by the folks who have the same sort of inclination during the Vice President ial debate socialize and is engendered information and senator harris on those two platforms 631 percent in 1070 percent and not just because the event was talked about she was in the public eye, the number of individuals watching the series is growing. Thats an important thing to say. Regarding russia and what we have learned, i am not sure the United States has learned very many lessons. The past couple of days has shown we have learned or at least become more circumspect that elicited providence we have not learned from our allies we need a recognition of foreign interference, and domestic and right now as demonstrated as those who are across the aisle it is politicized but it knows no Political Party thats the biggest recognition that we need. You are setting a great example of bipartisanship today and now i toss it over to cindy. We have learned some interesting things since 2016 the Kitchen Table topic it wasnt an issue being discussed prior to 2016 the social Media Companies have done some things to address this issue with increasing investigative capabilities and then to figure out what real world harm is and what content has real world harm is just the idea of the personal political opinion but what we have seen throughout these investigations across the board is the diet of this content that does the two realworld violence and with those political beliefs and with a greater investment and then to do so many times on behalf of social Media Companies that are underfunded and were keying in particular of the project and doing tremendous work those that face the same threat in different ways so like to see greater investment in those organizations doing that critical work. I yelled back. Thank you as a advocate for the whole genre