Transcripts For CSPAN2 Washington Journal Bob Barr 20240712

Congressman bob barr is with his deputy serves as president resd Law Enforcement Education Foundation. The question we ask our viewers in the first hour of our program today was are they concerned Political Division inth this country will spur violence for after the election . How would you answer that question . Guest its a question we should never really have to ask but the state of the country date is such that it is a relevant question to ask unfortunately. We have seen the past six months or so significant violence erupting in cities from coast to coast and in americas heartland. It does raise the question in peoples mind how much of this violence, if any, i is related o the political environment and whether it will continue after the election. None of us really have an answer for that but i worry a great deal that for example, it President Trump is elected those who are opposed to him which seem to be many of those engaged in violent acts will continue their violence. But its difficult to say. Its unfortunate we are in a situation where the question has to be asked. Host what this does it say about the state of the country at how did we get here with a september poll, that politico cited from yougov in a nationwide stores have 40 of republicans and 41 democrat said the would said that would be a little justification for violence if the other parties nominee wins the election. Guest its something i think back to when i was in college back in the late 1960s and with significant violence across america. We had many bombings which thankfully we havent seen these days but the difference i think is that today with the violence as opposed to the late 1960s there are people, Public Officials at the state and local and federal level that seem to not only turn a b blind eye to e violence that is occurring but impliedly if not explicitly discounted and thereby encourage it. Thats a a significant differee in the lates 1960s when you had rampant violence in many cities and you had consistent and very uniform pushed back by Public Officials against that. The fact that nowadays we have Public Officials who not only will not condemn the violence but in some instances seem to actually encourage it. That makes for a very dangerous situation. Host which Public Officials would you point to as perhaps the biggest perpetrators of that . Guest you have for example, a in chicago here corresponds to the pilot that weve seen in chicago is to condemn President Trump as if he is out there in the streets looting and burning carshe and attacking police. And she calls n control, which is irrelevant. Particularly in chicago which has some of the strictest gun control in the country. Gun control has nothing to do with the violence and the looting and the burning and the attacks on police and the constant high murder rates in chicago. Yet the mayor of chicago does not seem willing or able to address that. Host you are part of a group of about 60 Republican National Security Leaders who have endorsed President Trump in 2020. Does President Trump need to do anything to lower the temperature . Guest it is always good for president to say things that lower the temperature. Im a little concerned about that not happening consistently. But at the same time i think its important for the president , as he has done, to be out there supporting Law Enforcement and talking about law and order as an important component of national leadership. Host do you think the law order message is getting through in a time when there are so many major issues competing for the issue of campaign 2020 . Guest its an interesting question. At the end of the day in any election, at some level, people and voters are certainly concerned about violence. As president nixon said, back in 1968, when we were seeing a great deal of violence sweep across america, he said the most fundamental, or one of the most fundamental Civil Liberties that american citizens should be able to enjoy is to be free from domestic violence. I think this year is going to play a higher degree of relevance in the campaigning than it normally would. But it is certainly not the only issue. Theissue of the economy, issue of the health of the american public, but law and order is certainly going to play a role in the election, particularly as you have seen in recent months with a surge in street violence. Bob barr, our guest, he served eight years in congress as a republican from georgia, currently the president and ceo of the Law Enforcement Education Foundation. If you support the trumppenns ticket, call in at 202 7488001. If you support the bidenharris ticket, support call in at 202 7488000. As folks continue to call in, what is the Law Enforcement Education Foundation, what do you do . Laweef issues mediaes and pull together stories which are important for Law Enforcement, and are important for americans to know about Law Enforcement. We also provide some small grants to Law Enforcement department across the country, for example of the Department Needs some additional protective vests, but does not have the funds through their local government to obtain them, we are able to help out. Important,is most law and order what is most important law and order story we should know about this week . Inability continuing of Many National or unwillingness of Many National democrats to firmly support their police. And Law Enforcement. And i think it was senator harris who spoke recently about reimagining the police. Nonsensicalort of stuff that doesnt move us anywhere. And even in the recent debates, both the Vice President ial debate and the president ial debate between President Trump and former Vice President biden. There seems to be a tremendous hesitancy on the part of democrats to come out and say the reason that we have had this in recent years, decreases in Violent Crime against america is because we have strong Law Enforcement. And we have support for Law Enforcement by our governments at all levels. If you take away that support and you leave Law Enforcement without having their backs covered by local and state and federal government, you are going to see those statistics over the last few years. You will see the drop in violence crime in Violent Crime. Plenty of callers already, terry is in california on the line supporting the biden and harris ticket. Caller three questions. I am constantly hearing that the reimagining of the police force. S a hit against the Police Currently we have put more on police than they should handle. They shouldnt be handling the homeless. They should not be handling the mentally ill. Theyre not trained for it. We start seeing the abundance of violence, and unfortunately deaths because you have Police Officers that should not be people. N mentally ill they only have 10 days or even 10 hours to learn about it. You need to have people there that are familiar. The second letsthat is a big topic, have bob barr come in. Guest the collar makes a good point. On the one hand we are demanding more of Law Enforcement, but we are not giving Law Enforcement the tools to handle or deal with those issues. Your caller points out of an important issue. You have mentally ill people on the streets, particularly in these major cities. Yet when police try and deal with it, they are not trained comprehensively to do it as your caller points out. But when they try to deal with then theres a problem, sometimes as we saw during the Obamabiden Administration the federal government will come in and criticize them for not being able to deal with mentally ill and will then bring court action against them. Which then further limits how the police can operate. So its a good point that your caller makes. Florida. Is out of on the trumppenns ticket. Go ahead. Caller you asked in the first segment how to stop the violence , one thing you could do is never having someone on like your first guest, who is just provided a lot of divisiveness and hatred and did a number of lies. The second thing, i think the Current Democratic Party is probably the largest divisive hate group in the u. S. So what i would like for mr. Barr is why dont democrats condemn antifa . And what can the Democratic Party do to stop the violence and hatred . Antifa is very much in the news these days. Theres an argument over whether antifa exists or means anything whether its organized or highly organized or poorly organized. But the fact of the matter is, it does exist. Its out there. We have seen its advocates throwing trash cans full of fire , looting buildings and so forth. Theyre helping to organize these Peaceful Demonstrations which then turned into riots with looting and burning. And yet for some reason on the caller poses a good question. It would seem to me to be a nobrainer for Vice President biden and senator Kamala Harris and other democrat leaders at the National Level in particular to say we condemn antifa. We might not know everything about it, we might not know how its organized, but we see it, we see what its doing, and we condemn it. It would go a long way towards differencebridge the , the gulf between democrat and republican tickets online order. If the democrats would simply say we condemn antifa, which is the sort of thing they are demanding over and over as don that he condemn White Supremacy violence. Which he has. Host we spent a lot of time talking about Political Divisions in this country. Question, do you see a new American Civil War looming . Guest no, i dont. I would hate to have to answer that question. I doi see a great deal of divis, but that is nothing new. We have seen this building for several election cycles now. End ofultimately, at the the day, tremendous faith in the American People that they will not down that route. Example,aw, for yesterday in michigan, the fbi and i think it was the state Attorney Generals Office in michigan, take action against a small group of men who apparently were plotting against both the police and against the governor of michigan. Uncovered, and those people now will face our justice system. So, yes. While there certainly are elements of Fringe Groups on all sides of the political spectrum, i dont see that taking hold as a Broad Movement that would result in a civil war. Florida,ksonville, frank, undecided. Caller thank you for taking my call. Good morning, mr. Barr. There are some things that you said that i am kind of baffled at. Why the violence. I am originally from birmingham, alabama. Forace that is known violence. Hearing bombs every day and communities. I want to know, is there some situations with the education of the department of police what training do you suggest the police get to make them more sensible to all elements of protecting the citizens . Makes again, your caller a good point and focusing on police training. This is an area where both in a lawd my position enforcement Education Foundation and a number of experts, i dont include myself as an expert, but have identified one of the problems in modern Law Enforcement as the lack of good comprehensive training for Law Enforcement officers. Part of the reason we are seeing a decrease in proper training for Law Enforcement officers is a result of budget cuts. A local Police Department faces a budget cut, one of the first, if not the first, place they cut his training. Is that is unfortunate. Not only are we getting Police Officers that dont really understand how to use the power they have, such as we saw in minneapolis with george floyd earlier this year, but they arent receiving the type of training necessary to make them forize how important it is them to understand the community in which they are operating. That is very important. It is important for both the public to understand the job and the problems Police Officers are facing, but equally important for the police to understand and be compassionate with the community in which they are serving. Its a very good point, and i would like to see more training and better quality training acrosstheboard for the police in this country. Congressmembers of the and president came to bob barr today and said we want good, comprehensive police training, what would you say it would cost and who would lead that training . Who is guest guest doing it right . There are at the department of justice a number of programs, grants, that go to Police Departments, but they are insufficient. One of the things i would urge would be for congress, the house and senate, to come together and better fund the Current Police Grant Programs through the bureau of justice assistance, for example, but also to increase the scope of that training. Unfortunately, the environment in the congress right now, in the house and senate, is so divisive that even on Something Like increasing police training, both the funding and scope of police training, it doesnt seem they could get together. That would be one area that i think would be very productive. I also think that in the prior administration, the biden administration, there was almost an adversarial relationship between the department of justice a local Police Departments that didnt help at all. We need a better working relationship between the federal government and local police that is not antagonistic or adversarial. Windermere, florida, endorses the biden harris take it. Caller i was wondering what you thought about the fbi director being criticized by President Trump right now for not going after antifa, and he said it was not as big a problem as the white militia groups. He could get fired if trump says i dont like what you are doing, i will fire you. Should the president the april 2 . Ire the fbi director bet he supposed to independent from the president . Guest the director of the fbi has a degree of independence that is broader than a lot of officials in the executive ranch. It doesnt completely insulate him, nor should it. The director of the fbi serves at the pleasure of the president , and there should be a good working relationship in terms of the priorities between headead of the guy and of the fbi, the president , and the attorney general. If you dont have that, that could have problems that were to the local level if you dont have a good working relationship between the president , the attorney general, and the director of the fbi. In recent years have been pretty good about not exercising their power to relieve the head of the fbi simply over policy disputes. If the president is going to remove the director of the guy he must have a good the director of the fbi he must have a good reason for it, and that must be explained to congress. In regard to chris wrays comments in regards to the dangers posed by different groups out there, certainly violent white supremacist groups have always demanded and should continue to demand a high priority by the fbi, as should movements like antifa. I dont think the director of the fbi wasas saying that antifa is not a problem. I think what he was saying is its more difficult to deal with that because of the disorganized structure of antifa but it certainly is a problem and i would be concerned if the director of the fbis that it was not a problem at all what it dont think thats what he was saying. At least i hope that. Host story out of bloomberg yesterday reads this way. Christopher wray has no plans to resign aswr president donald trp and his supporters step up the mints for thet release of Sensitive Files that they say will show spy on trumps 2016 campaign. He certainly attained your term that begin in 2017 and doesnt plan at this time to step down. However, trump could fire him at anybl time and for any reason, s he did his predecessor, james comey. Caller good morning. Its good to see mr. Barr and cspan again. Two things quickly. Cspan is a microcosm of how the media treats conservatives and its indicative, illustrated by the last guest who spouted lie after lie and you did not asking any followups but mr. Barr initially talked about how the mayorsps supporting and allowing his violent protest. Did you asking for proof . Heor talked about chicago, but w about the mayor of seattle who allowed antifa and black lives matter to occupy a whole swath of the city and called it the summer of love . Last thing, also cspan, i think to be the biggest lawenforcement Law Enforcement issue right now is the premier Law Enforcement and intelligence agencies that conspired with the Hillary Clinton campaign to unseat a dulyelected president. You guys come when a cspan going to do that story some justice . Us host appreciate the feedback. We are doing something right if you have a guest on that you do agree with and guest on that you dont agree with your we try to find balance and lett people calling and ask their own questions. Appreciate the feedback. You want to weigh in . Guest id like to go come back to what the college instead with regard to the mayor in seattle with her summer of love pronouncement, which was pretty ridiculous to say the least and very unsupportive of the Law Enforcement in her own city. And then we have mayor wheeler out in portland through his tepid reaction to the violence in portlandn wound up saying wek after week after week of incessant violence, so some of these mayors in addition to the one i mentioned in chicago have really not only done nothing to stop the violence, but through the ridiculous policies encouraged it. That is unfortunate so i appreciate your call caller pog that out. Host auch made in morgantown virginia, undecided. Go ahead. Caller thank you for taking myci call. I i had a question for the scenario where you and your foundation do things that lethal force was not appropriate in the shooting, in a killing. Howa would you counsel that Police Department in that kind of scenario . Guest training Police Officers on the use of force, and particularly the use of deadly force, is the most important aspect of police training. And its also i the most diffict for outsiders such as a juries to deal with. Whether or not the jury believes that if they were in that situation they would react the same as the Police Officer is not really the appropriate perspective. Its very difficult because what you have to do is you have to give the Police Officers sufficient flexibility so that if they reasonably believe that the circumstances that they are facing place them or another person in the immediate vicinity in fear of severe bodily harm or death, that allows himdi to use deadly force in return. Course, there are many situations where this becomes a very complex afterthefact analysis. It is very important and train police and set a proper standard for th introduced i think by the democrats in the house if im not mistaken that purported to band chokehold, yet the language of it was so broad that it would not allow almost any way for a Police Officer to properly detain a viable suspect if in anything that they did it might impede the persons breathing even momentarily. So its very difficult to set specific standards. What is most important is to make sure your Police Officers understand the basic role of an officer and that they can use force and particularly deadly force only if they truly and reasonably believe in the circumstances that they face serious bodily harm or death and it has to be from their perspective, not from an outsiders perspective speaking of bills that have been proposed that could alter police actions, explain what qualified immunity is and what you think about qualified immunity reform efforts. Generally speaking and this is something weve inherited centuries ago from british common law and that is that there is sovereign immunity. That is immunity that applies to the sovereign. In the british system it was the crown and the crown was absolutely immune from actions by the citizenry so you could bring a suit against the crown. In the United States we took that not exactly the same but there is for example in my state of georgia there is immunity that state officials have that immunizes them or protects them against being sued unless by statute. The state hasagreed to be sued. That i think is unqualified immunity that goes too far. With police, its important to realize that if you say police are going to be liable for everything and anything they do then youre not going to have police. Those buddies going to want to serve if theyre going to be secondguessed and liable for every mistake they make but by the same token if police go beyond what they are supposed to do, if they in fact use unreasonable force, force that is not called for, particularly deadly force than they should be held to account. They should not have blanket immunity. We saw this for example in the Breonna Taylor case in louisville where the police executed a warrant, there is dispute over whether or not they announced themselves or didnt. They say they did. Breonna taylors boyfriend says hedidnt hear that. Thats a fact issue but it raised, that case raised a specific question about whether or not since the police used violence, deadly violence in and Breonna Taylor unfortunately was killed as a result whether they should be liable in the grand jury in that case listed all the facts and circumstances and said that unfortunately there was not liability because the police when they broke in to the apartment pursuant to the warrant, her boyfriend shot at them so they were permitted to use deadly force in return but these questions revolve around sometimes very complex fact issues. Evidentiary as well as again, what is the standard for the police . You have to look at the police at that time, not afterthefact from an outside observer. 10 or 15 minutes left with bob barr, former republican e, congressman serving from 2005 to 2003,current ceo of the Law Enforcement Education Foundation. Its law ef. Org if you want to check out their work. You can call in as john did from Tampa Florida and he supports the biden harris ticket. Good morning, mister barr i believe you are partof the reason why there is this problem with violence. You started off this year by pointing out the riots without reference to the reason why people write. You also mentioned that police need more training. Tlet me ask you, what kind of training does somebody need to run up to me to run up to a man 9 and ahalf minutes and suffocate them. Theres a reason white esupremacist was captured after killing nine people and he was given a hamburger. That means the police knew what to do. They just choose to do what they want to do in certain issues. You mentioned about community, that the decision should be based on what the police determines in his own light. Who is going to determine that but the police themselves and if the police determines that he should give a hamburger but lean on the other persons neck, how are we ever going to have justice in this country . Im not sure what i hamburger has to do with the george floyd case but the color points out very appropriately that in the george floyd case , two issues have come up. One is the fact that the Police Officer by every account and looking at the video of that acted improperly in maintaining the pressureof his knee on George Floyds neck for such a long time. That seems very very clear. We dont know everything that happened before that, but from that point on in other words from the point that the Police Officer with his knee on George Floyds neck and exerted force, that went on for far too long. Secondly go and this is important, so that shows lack of proper training on the Police Officer. So the caller is criticizing that, the color is very well justified in criticizing the apparent lack of proper training on the Police Officers parts for they are here to use the training that they might have received. Actually though those Police Officers including the one who exerted pressure on George Floyds neck and killed him, that Police Officer and the others that were there are being prosecuted. They were indicted. They are being prosecuted and apparently they should be, so the fact that they might have thought one thing doesnt really play a role here. They were indicted and they will be held to account so by all accounts, thus far our system is working very well in that instance in terms of accountability. You think they would have been indicted and held to account if not for the video of the public that went viral and made this such a moment that the whole country focused on . I think that the fact that it went viral and caused riots is irrelevant. I have great faith in the grand jury system whether its in minneapolis or my hometown of atlanta. I presume that the grand jury was presented the evidence of that case including at least some of the footage of the video, the officers body cam. And it made its decision based on that caused this happened very quickly before the wave of violence swept the country. Bob is out of tyler texas on the line for those who support trump, good morning. This as far as Law Enforcement education, it seems like we are submerged in the quagmire of the present and until we get back to the education of our founding, specifically the first senate of our first law and entirety of us code, the laws of nature and the laws of natures god. Until we understand what that means, the laws of natures god is the bible. And then the document that was written to protect those laws which is the constitution. It seems like we are just appointed our education on the reason for our founding until we get back to a moral and virtuous , religious country, theres no amount of laws thats going to save our Current Situation so id just like some comments on the first sentence of us law. Congressman barr. Our Founding Fathers were by every measure i believe very brilliant men, not simply because they were very intelligent but because also they understood the sweep of history. As i believe mark helprin wrote in an editorial many years ago. These were men who studied history, who understood the rise in the fall of civilizations and who understood that one of the important elements of a free society, of a Representative Democracy in our case is to have a well educated population. A citizenry and that means having a citizenry that understands not only the laws of the day but the foundation of our laws and the importance of understanding that at our core we need to remember that we are a moral society based on fundamental human moral principles. Ed and that needs to be a part not only of our Education System but also the education of police. It goes back to one of your earlier collars talking about the need for police to be trained consciously and the populace of their community and the values ofthe community. So understanding the moral component of our government both nationally and locally is extremely important. With a few minutes left i did want to pick your brain about state politics, youre a man who knows georgia politics. Georgia now falling into according to the Cook Political Report the tossup category when it comes to the president ial race this year. President trump needs to do to ensure that georgia stays in his column. Georgia is changing somewhat and we see this over the sweep of history. States go from socalled blue to red to purple so it doesnt really surprise me. There have been a lot of people that have moved into georgia in recent years and that has a tendency to achange the political complexion. We are seeing that in places like texas as well where people from california are moving in. But i think President Trump needs to do in georgia that he needs to do everywhere particularly in battleground states and that is to remind the voters what he has accomplished from a positive standpoint that hes been in office, not to deal with petty beissues but to talk about the accomplishments in Law Enforcement, the need for Law Enforcement support and also on the economic front and the international arena. President and republicans. They dont do as do good a job as the democrats do of putting before the voters those things they have done well and consistent real remind voters of that so President Trump needs to do that in georgia as well as in other states that are perhaps closer than they should be for the republicans. What are the petty issues you agreed to . I think in the debates we see not talking about joe biden, joe bidens son. Thats an issue, hunter biden is an issue but thats being dealt with hopefully by the justicedepartment and by us attorney durham. Criticizing biden for trump for Bernie Sanders or something. Stick to the big issues, the important issues to the American People and that is the safety of their person, the safety oftheir job and the safety of their health. What is of concern to the voters of Administration Talk about his positive record as or it has in those areas. Time for a couple more calls, this is betty, keeling illinois. Voting for the biden harris ticket. Caller thanks for taking my call. My biggest thing and nobody is talking about this is the cover ups that the Police Departments do. We dont hear about these things like the Breonna Taylor thing or the only reason we saw george floyd is because it was filmed and went viral but the coverups, its months, sometimes years before we find out and thats my biggest problem with the Police Department. Its systemic in that. Thank you. Here again, as always with cspan, your color makes a very good point. When there is a problem with a Police Officer and a shooting for example s, its important for the public to know that the authorities, the police chief and the other authorities in the Police Department take that seriously and are conducting a true, legitimate investigation as opposed to just rallying and circling the wagons around the officers and saying we support them nomatter what. That does not generate confidence in the police and its not the way the Police Leadership should operate. They should not be too quick to condemn a Police Officer after a shooting nor should they be too quick to jump to the Police Officers defense so having a transparent process that is fair to the Police Officer but also fair to the public so that there is a legitimate inquiry taking place is very important and your color is correct, too often we dont see that. Simi valley california, maggie for those on the line for those who support President Trump and Vice President pants. My father was lapd during the watts riots and i just find that the reporting on this is very irresponsible. For everybody to jump to conclusions with regards to george floyd. After my father passed away in the 90s , i ended up with addiction issues. So i have a lot of information and experience with the police. I got in trouble, im clean now but the bottom line is that if everybody put that video together and later jumped to conclusions like that have you would see that bottom line is george floyd was saying he could not breathe in the backseat of the car. He insisted on getting out. Theres a video that hasnt been circulated. He insisted on getting out of e the car because he couldnt breathe. He was acting very erratic. He was very erratic before he got out of the car. I found his autopsy report, it shows hes got over three times a lethal dose of fentanyl. The same fentanyl thats been killing people all over america. Host congressman, ill give you the final minute and a half or so that we have this morning. Guest its very important to look at theentirety of an incident like we saw with george floyd. If in fact we conclude that simply based on the shots of the Police Officer with his knee on George Floyds neck and we say that the beginning and the end of the matter, where doing a disservice to the country and to the community, to the police and george floyd. We need to do is we need to look at the whole thing. Your color is very correct. Quite a bit of time after the initial camera shots of the Police Officer with his knee on George Floyds neck enough , there was additional footage by body camera footage of the when george floyd was in the car, complaining about not being able to breathe. He couldnt breathe and apparently the reason he couldnt breathe was because of drugs that he was under, drugs that he had been taking as the caller correctly indicates, the autopsy report indicates that he had excessively high levels of various controlled illegal substances in his body that probably contributed to his death. Now, to what extent those drums did, to what extent the Police Officer action did, those are all issues that hopefully should come out through a comprehensive transparent public trial but your color is correct. Its far easier to jump to a conclusion based on just one snippet of a film as opposed to looking at the entire picture , what led up to it and what happened afterwards. Will have to end it there, congressman alverez is currently president and ceo of the Law Enforcement Education Foundation. Its law pef. Org if you want to check them out. I appreciate the time. Cspan2 is live joe bidens Campaign Event where hes expected to talk about the useconomy. Watching live coverage on cspan2. Its all about hope and purpose. For me, my religion is just an enormous sense of solace. I go to mass and i say the rosary. I find it to be incredibly comforting. Faith reaches best in the dark. Think of the people you know going through horrible things and they put one foot in front of the other. I marvel that people who absorb hurt and just get back up and they are absolutely thoroughlyconvinced and optimistic about the prospects of this country and i mean. Thereis nothing you cant do. Who are we . We are the ones who step up for each other. Ive got your back, youve got mine kindness, humility, empathy. Its not just talk, its who we are. Its we always have been. And no one can take that from area the movement to bring it back is started here. And here. And here. In school gymnasiums, community centers, the living room down theblock. Youll be where . Okay, well be there. Who are we western mark. Your movement that willbe donald trump. Going to have to fight for it. Were going to have to sacrifice and fight area were going to have to read every one is going to have to leave with kindness , humility empathy and not just talk but action. Action today. Action tomorrow. Action until we win. And we willwin. We can do this together. Its who we are. Its who we always have been. Now lets show them real. [music]. [music] cspan2 is live at joe bidens Campaign Event waiting for him to begin with remarks on the nations economy. While we wait we take a look at washington journal. Joining us now for a discussion on his book on Political Forces that continue to change america. The title of that book, pitchfork, populism that became your book covers topics from globalization to raise the media, even bipartisanship. What do you think is the most important force shaping this country right now, less than four weeks before election day . Probably our National Identity which i characterized as a split personality, both parts of which are very legitimate, deeply rooted all the way back to colonial days to rugged individualist on the one side and activist on the other and this theres this duality between the two that plays out in so manyaspects of our life and politics. Host defined populism as well as pitchfork populism. Guest the United States have a large history of populist movements, economic populism efforts and agrarian populism and a lot of things as i detail go back as far as back as the 1700s for that matter even the creation from the colonies to the country as a form of populism but this is different. I call it pitchfork populism because it evokes the image from the movie, the frankenstein movies where the townsfolk are upset with grievance and resentment and they storm the castle with pitchfork and torches. Basically trying to vent their anger. In this case its not actually populism because normally populism is power to the people, to be able to fulfill their aims and objectives. In this case donald trump founded a court that felt left behind after the economic turbulence from 2008 and nine and felt as if they were being served by democrats or republicans. He basically motivated them to empower him and with what hes doing basically its this transactional approach is how he governs according to each individual situation is completely different. He even acknowledged that that he claims to be a dealmaker and deal with each situation sui generis as his own transaction that is contrary to what populism actually is. This cohort that donald trump found back in 2016, talk about its development and how long that it had been feeling left out. Its kind of a resurging effort. Everything obviously always evolves but basically in recent years and especially once again the economic turbulence of 08 and 09 had a lot to do with it because people were left out and we didnt know the tea Party Started partly by those kind of resentments and formatted with a lot of different layers, adding to that and of course 2016 was a perfect storm but i really believe that in 2020, its different than 2016 because in 2016 there were some people who figured that they were just not getting, they were not moving forward. They were being able to achieve their aims so they thought they try something completely different. A disruptor. Now many people have seen what happens by having a disruptor in the white house. And a big difference between for this particular cohort and im not talking about people who are dead set and need direction but especially people in the middle. Theres no doubt, really no one in the country who can say they dont know who donald trump is or what hes about. In 2016 some people could, you can so people actually have a lot more information on which to take their decisions onnovember 3. Pertaining as our guest in the book is pitchfork populism. A discussion this morning about the Political Forces that shape the 2016 election continue to change america. Phone lines lit up this way if youre a trump pencil supporter 2027 48,001. If youre provided harris supporter 2027 48,000. If youre undecided, 2027 48,002. Considering those online that where using this, the, you think in this election less than four weeks before the election. From supporters are more motivated to go out and vote for trump or against joe biden and the same question provided supporters, are they more motivated to go out and vote for joe white or against donald trump. I think theres a lot of both sides. The degree of energy that were seeing very strongly, first of all with regard to the donald trump support, we know that typically pulls 40 percent and whether you look at who voted for him in 2016 or you look at his current approval number, its very important to note that that does not reflect his face. His face is a subset. So within his face in chapter 10 i document and there are a lot of people who agree that its somewhere between 20 or 25 percent, somewhere in that area. That segment of Donald Trumps voters are very passionate. They will remain very passionate but there are a lot of people who voted for donald trump for different reasons. So among a lot of the other groups, the other subsets of the people who voted for him and who still support him, there are a lot of people who have misgivings, a lot of people who are contending with his conflict between their own principles and their own values versus they got something they want, maybe they like the regulation or their particular industry theyre looking at that buton the other hand , donald trump is doing things that are very contrary to americandemocracy. So you do have a lot of persons on that side where on the other side as far as the biden supporters, we saw it even the day after inauguration in 2017 with the womens mart. There is a lot of passion, there are a lot of people who are upset for a lot of reasons if you think in terms of the kids in cages and charlottesville and we can spend another hour going through reasons why people are upset with decisions that have been made either from the white house for different areas of the administration but theres a lot of passion in the port of joe biden and connell harris. In light of the story out of michigan yesterday, this kidnapping plot against governor witmer. We asked our viewers in the first hour of our program whether theirconcern about Political Divisions in this country ,whether it will spur violence and a lot of those colors this morning , brought up their concern that the media is playing a role here. They are concerned about violence but that the media is stoking that violence and it was a concern brought by callers on both sides of the political aisle, can you talk about the role of the media right now in populism today and some of those concerns that viewers have about it and mark. [music]