Transcripts For CSPAN2 CSIS Discussion On U.S. North Korea Policy 20240712

Good morning everyone in dc, good evening everyone in korea, good day around the world, im the host of this capital cable. Welcome to the twelfth edition brought to you by the good folks at kia motors. On the capital cable secretary mike pompeo took to northeast asia and its applications for korea. 1010 marks party day in north korea, expectations for that date and impact on interkorean relations, mystery solved, the latest north selfdevelopment in the 2018 disappearance of the d prk ambassador to rome who is in south korea as well as continuing develops in the wake of the shooting death of the south Korean Ministry of oceans and fisheries at the at the hand of the North Koreans, bonus coverage of important us are okay alliance issued including the upcoming economic dialogue started by yours truly and a new vice Ministerial Alliance. And multiple assignments throughout asia with the language in korean, Language Skills excuse me, korean, japanese and the bees. And my favorite title, representative to the spent fuel team at the Nuclear Facility but that is going is north korea bona fides. Sadly, running away with regular segment this year at kb about welcome to the show. Thanks. Its great to be. Thanks for having me back. Looking forward to it affects a coming on again. Quickly turning to regulators, victor cha, vice dean at georgetown, head of the csis creature program, former director at the nsc bush to white house on korea and a new coffee mug . Good stuff. Last but not least dr. Doctor singletary, Senior Advisor to the korean chair, taught at columbia as well. I see the coffee mug, looking good. Welcome back to the program. Looking for to your insights as well. With that lets get to it. This week secretary pompeo travel to japan. He was originally slated to also stop in korea i believe mongolia, but offer later date. The japan trip held, two big highlights and want to ask mr. Knepper. First, meeting with the new japanese Prime Minister and also a meeting with the quad in tokyo which is at the foreign minister level with the indians, the australians, japanese and, of course, us as well, the United States. Lets take these in turn. Your impressions from the meeting, what are the big takeaways for this Japan Alliance Going Forward . First off, let me just say it was really a pity the secretary couldnt continue on with this whole program to it as you said both seoul but given ebony eveg going on at the time with the president s health i think regrettable but understandable. I hope you had to reschedule. As you said he did make it to tokyo, significantly he was able to meet with the new japanese Prime Minister, and individual we know well. What a great them when his chief cabinet secretary at the fact when he was chief campus after he visited washington met with Vice President pence, secretary pompeo. In way this was a chance to continue to build on a relationship that was already solid and really the Prime Minister is devotee of the alliance of it is very committed to ensuring the u. S. Japan relationship remains. The cost of both our National Security and foreign policies in the region. And will looking for to deepening further this relationship over the months ahead. As for the quad, it was the second time we had met the foreign minister level. This was important and we had this dragon and interest industry in the a grueling schedule. This directory spent 20 oh before turning around a coming back but the quad, this is represent i think an understanding among our four countries about the need for democracies, liberal economies such as yourselves to get together, discussed our shared values come to discuss our shared interest, to discuss ways which we can cooperate to address the challenges we all face in the region and around the world. Thanks for for the excellent overview. Really appreciate that standing readout. Since this is a show primarily focused on korea but also northeast asia and asia writ large Security Issues and geopolitical issues, what should the koreans take away from this . What should seoul take away from this in terms of new japanese Prime Minister, something that comes to top of my this seoul tokyo relations and the trilateral relationship between washington and seoul and tokyo . Prime minister suga as as a salesman of the japanese leaders recognizes the importance of constructive productive relations among all three countries come the trilateral relationship as you said. And among the top issues that we do share is meeting the north korea challenge. I would fully expect Going Forward Prime Minister suga will work with us can work with the republic of korea on our shared challenge with pyongyang. But at the same time we are on the for other areas in which we can cooperate. Its important for us again to recognize which are values and goals, and hopefully we proceed, seoul and tokyo will find a a y to address their own issues in a way that does respect the past but does pave the way to a brighter future. Do you sense any opportunity for improving ties or improving trilateral relations between the three nations in the wake of the new Prime Minister and secretary pompeo is trip to the region . The relationship, trilateral relationship was among topics the secretary raised matches with Prime Minister suga but with the foreign minister. As with any new slate, new leader, that doesnt always present opportunities. We have to be skillful in how we deal with it. Certainly a lot of our efforts to work with our partners in the region are not always on the front page of the news. We try to be discreet when we deal with these matters but we do definitely see opportunities to try and improve things. I think we were heartened by the very warm Exchange Agreement between president moon and the new Prime Minister, and we will start here and see how things go. Thanks for that really interesting take. Victor, i want to come to you on the trilateral and seoul tokyo peace. We will get to the quad in the second. Ill come back to you on the quad. But victors, on his basket of issues. So tokyo trilateral relationship. Sure. Mark is being diplomatic because hes a diplomat. This relationship is about as bad as i wrote a book on this relationship. Its about as bad as its ever been unfortunately. I do think theres an opportunity with a new Prime Minister. A i dont think the relationship to be bad. He spoke about korea in his first speech in the United States, actually at csis. He did his best. He wanted to build relations with korea but so much stuff happen and it that just being, i mean he as the right minister just became an obstacle to any possible improvement of relations. The fact that suga is now there, even the suga is almost like abe two are still an opportunity just because of the personalities have changed. And so its great as mark said pompeo was in tokyo and raise the trilateral. Its important that happened. On the korean side there has to be, so the president is good, it was good to make positive statements with positive forwardlooking but i think the main thing is they have to see it, you assess to see this improved relations as important even if its not conducive to any sort of improvement in interkorean relations. They are focused like a laser on interkorean relations mps regime stuff in the year and half they have left. In fact, president moon spoke at another event last night where the primary thing he talked about after he thank everybody for inviting him, the only thing he really talked about was a peace declaration. And so we have to think about, cannot see trilateral and seoultokyo relations as being irrelevant to that goal. If thats the goal they are after they need to understand that this is important in their effort to achieve that goal. You have to get consensus of everybody if thats the goal you want to achieve. Thats sort of the primary dilemma right now is they see no need for because they dont see it as conducive to the gulf there trying to achieve, which is this declaration. Excellent insight, excellent analysis. You ut death and tease our interkorean top of the will be coming here shortly. Before we get to that, marc, back to you. Quad. You gave an overview kumquats a discussion about use, important these of the Foreign Ministers came to tokyo to engage in a really important dialogue at eight critical time. In the background briefing i think was on the return trip by the secretary, there are quotes from Senior State Department officials on background talked about the secretary would move to institutionalize this framework. So two questions here. What does that mean in terms of institutionalize, and what do we expect to see Going Forward from this . Thanks. Just a brief history of the quad. It started way back in 2004 actually as our four countries cooperate in the wake of the boxing day, december 26 earthquake and tsunami in the indian ocean and over the years the idea, the dream of the quad is waxed and waned and the recent waxing the result of this recognition that our four countries do share interest come share values. Really we talk about institutionalizing it it means to regularize it, come up with more rigorous scheduling meetings at various levels not just foreign minister but at lower levels, but also to come up with Something Like work plan which would include a number of cooperative efforts in different areas whether its security, infrastructure development, whether its Traditional Development assistance, whether its in the energy sphere, connectivity, roadbuilding, that kind of thing. Its still early and it still meant i think to be sorted envisioning a fabric that will connect all of us throughout the region and a question batch of other participation. The quad was never meant to be exclusive. Its not meant to be insular and keep others out. Rather, its meant to have other countries wanting to join. We will see how it goes from here, but very positive mood i think coming out of tokyo and all for of our capitals are committed to make this work. Outstanding. Thanks. Appreciate the answer. Like victor you beat me to the spot. Kia is a sponge of the nba will and be charging, barreling down the lane can you guys would be good to the spot and established position. Let me ask one follow up on that. Many of the issues that you talked about, shared values, theres also in the quad readout, theres a lot of talk about asean seem to dovetail with the rok southern policy toward southeast asia. Is this something the state department is encouraging the koreans to take a look at . I only footnote this by just a bit of a similarity between tpp and other institutional frameworks in the region that the koreans i think were interested then tpp in hurry came together and there was i think a moment with the koreans felt the outside looking in. Is this something the state department by the talking to koreans about hey, get in early, good to maybe take a look at this looks what are we on that basket of issues . For sure our two countries has been a lot of time recently talking about how our respective policies, whether its the indopacific strategy or koreas new southern policy, how they interact come how the overlap, how we can call them at each other. As you said, centrality is key to the four quad members in the region but as a set a think shias c. We are still at the point we were trying to get amongst the four of us how this should work, but Going Forward the minister mentioned publicly 50 of a quad plus, not for closing anything. He said that the want to be exclusive of insular but you want to get the fabric and make it tighter and make it clearer before we start to think about building it out. Thanks to take. Victor, sue i will come to you in second to kick off topic two, but victor any comments on the quad to close out topic one . Yes. As marc said, this started in 2004. I remember it well because it is my first at the nsc when the tsunami hit. It started out focus on Disaster Response come Disaster Response come disaster preparation it became an Informal Group being in 20052006 for there was regular consultations as marc said on others including iraq and afghanistan. Its wouldve played a large bowl. When i step back and look at this more broadly in terms of the alliances, a lot of people would look at this as the primary manifestation of an effort to network bilateral alliances in asia, to take what are basically line segment bilaterals and turned it into triangles, trilateral or quads or quad plus as marc said. There is no language about china. Its not inclusion but the sort of joke everybody said is when you get a group with u. S. Allies great the three search to look like something that is directed against china. I think either the language on this, the way they printed has been very good. It fits very well with the desire to multilateralize more stuff in asia. The fact that the talk about asean as you said is important because from the asean perspective it want to see any organization of big powers sort of squeezing out asean in the central role in terms of regional institutions in asia. They are sort of walking a good line right now, and he sorts of organizations are useful when they dont sort of say we were just going to focus on one thing. Its kind of a market. Amorphous, kind of like an amoeba. It is many different parts to it and it is functional more than it is institutional. The dangers of when you. [talking over each other] that institutionalization, regularization, things of that nature in a we talked about secretary. Are we talking about things like that. Then i think you start to get concerns about conclusion, exclusion. That leads us quickly, we wont get into it or today but a seen in this program about korea, china, u. S. , the squeeze, all of that. You can see that extent in decisionmaking and at least surveying the quad from a think the korean peninsula. Let me go to topic two, excellent work on topic one. Topic two coming up is north korea, october 10, party day. Celebration to sue, im going to come to you first. We have 10. 10. No major publications post handle it. Tell me if im right or wrong of that what you get through the question. Every five years theres usually something significant in terms of demonstration of military capabilities, something along those lines. And three, lots of open source chatter, imagery about something coming. Sue, dust mites in expert take a north korea. Im turning to you to ask the question, what are we seeing now, what i would like lucy and what are the takeaways that you think will come out of 10. 10 Celebrations Party day . Youre right. Were seeing in a few days but on this 10. 10 day i think they were come some sort strategic weapon will be displayed. Its important for kim jongun now to signal all strength and the fight at home and internationally to show despite all of its domestic difficulties come with the talk about in a program the last several months i think sanctions, covid, typhoons, triple whammy, that he is strong but he needs to display strength. Besides that kim jong himself addressed he would reveal a new security weapon sometime this year. This this is a perfect opportuny and as you mention you done your homework that every five years north korea does show something significant something new. Five years ago what is, 2015 parade on the seventh anniversary north korea showcase new icbm design, kn14. Five years by did that on the 65th anniversary they introduced a missile which was the first vessel designed to have a range that cricket guam. Could hit so we have him think he worked for the strategic weapon in the new years address. We have the current domestic difficulties so it feels he needs to project strength. We have this president presidet talked about on his fiveyear period so whether its a new soe m Nuclear Armed soe m or as mark pointed out a missile payload containing several warheads, its capable of obviously been aimed at a different target which makes it very difficult to intercept, makes the Missile Defense much were difficult. Whatever that is, he also talked about the imagery showing that it will be Something Big. Besides like something i think there going to show like parade all the stuff out this would show they are massproducing strategic weapons, scores of something. Then they have to show their something new come massproducing this stuff. Its all a warning to washington to whatever comes in november whether trump back in term or with Vice President biden, that north korea is producing more fissile material, continually expanding its Nuclear Missile arsenal and timeless washington side. Is teased that last piece of the walking a bit of a line in terms of they have domestic politics as you mentioned. They have this fiveyear anniversary come for lack of a better term, so theres a desire to do Something Big but they also are dealing with this in the middle of a u. S. Election, right . Unlike 15, unlike ten, right . Its a little different. What kind of line to the have to walk your . This is not a normal election year. Normally you would have seen and csis did a study which is a window, average of 4. 5 weeks. Before, but of the election. We wouldve seen something provocation but again its not a normal election year. There are several things to consider. First you would like to do with President Trump rather than biden. He probably wants to see trump get reelected, and in this case he doesnt want to make trouble for President Trump. That being a major provocation. I dont think its likely this month until the election. If a proposition comes i do think its going to be after the election and particularly if it is President Biden. Transition time, lets say postelection to biden coming in in january, thats the time i need to watch out for. If it is President Trump was reelected that i think kim jongun calculation has changed again to think about what he needs to do because President Trump said having another summit with gimp campus a priority fo. Kim does not want to jeopardize the opportunity particularly with domestic difficulties and he wants to negotiate and get some significant sanctions relief. Thanks for the outstanding. Victor, your take on this. The thing im going to look for on the october 10 great and everything is what the people going to be wearing masks. That has the potential to be a big super spreader event. I dont disagree with sues analysis. I think thats whats likely to happen, that we will see provocations after, it biden wins. I think for two reasons. One is tactical. They want to always approach a new administration from a position of strength and so the always feel, whether its right or wrong in the own might they always feel like doing Something Like this gives them a position of strength. The other is they will associate President Biden with obamas policy come strategic patience and they would want to send a clear signal that that is not going to work, like we are not going to stand for that come something along those lines. What happens is if they do that it becomes a selffulfilling prophecy because thats going to naturally influenced or check the policy review that would take place on north korea as soon as the new administration comes in. On if trump wins, i was doing a conference with someone else who was very close, once worked in the administration, with very close to trump, is deeply involved in the campaign and he said to me that he thought if trump wins he will get a a sumt with kim jongun right away, right away. And he said, and he will probably make a deal that you experts will hate, but he will play that that the greatest youll ever get the reason he will do that is because, one, trump as an individual doesnt like loose ends, like this is a loose in. And two, as this person said, trump went all in on north korea. Like, theres no other issue where he personally went all in all industries term, when out and met the leader, all the sort of stuff. With china it was put lighthizer other, wilbur ross come of the people out there but he went all the north korea. He cant have that not succeed for him. So he thinks its likely that there will be this meeting right away. All right. Thanks, becky. Good stuff. I passed in victor to talk about the near, shortterm, mediumterm future. Marc, take us back to the present. Where are we just recap the latest round . It seems like lines of communication are still open between the leaders. The was a letter a week or so ago. Can you tell us what we are in terms of u. S. Dprk relations and the posture we find yourself in at this point in time . Thanks. I think we continue to maintain and state publicly and secretary pompeo has a couple of occasions recently that we remain open to dialogue, remain open to diplomatic solution, that we continue to hope to actualize the spirit of the singapore statement and the goals contained therein, normalizing and transforming the u. S. And north korea relationship, bringing peace to the peninsula which by extension would be improving northsouth relations, et cetera. So that remains. But at the same time intel north korea responds to the will of the International Community at addresses its nuclear and Ballistic Missile programs, the Pressure Campaign will continue. I would point out of course that chairman kim recently announced or released publicly the sympathy note or some kind of expression of get well soon kind of card to President Trump, which i dont know if anybody remembers but the last time the North Koreans publicly express sympathy towards the United States was 9 11. So its been 19 years since weve had that kind of public expression of sympathy. So take it as you will, but its a good sign i suppose that chairman kim is watching and expressing concern about our leader. Thanks, marc. I am tended to ask you what you make of the fact that its been 19 years and we havent had an expression like that, as you mentioned. Any thoughts or are you just, youre just noting it for the record, more or less . I dont know. I suppose its reflection that over 19 years weve been fortunate enough not to that a repeat of Something Like 9 11. But no, i would venture a guess as to why the weather, is there any other thought to similar notes over the years. Fair enough. Lets move on to interkorean discussions here, related topic. Lets them that. We were on the subject of north korea in terms of use. Lets shifted to the peninsula a bit and lets look at these two pieces. First, lets take this one first. We still have continuing fallout from this incident at sea with a dprk apparently captured and then subsequently killed and burned the body of a south korean government official. Marc, just two things. One, it seems like military tensions are still high, according to open sources in south korea, and the supporting of that. And two, interestingly the blue house, according to opensource reports if im correct, put out a statement that National Security Robert Obrien last thursday express condolences of course for the terrible tragedy, but also on a policy issue support for the south korean governments proposal to find, im coding, truth to the interkorean dialogue. Comments on both of those issues, tensions and the interkorean peace as well. You know, virtually within the same day as the south korean government came out with its expression of outrage about what happened, we came in behind them and offer our support for the south korean nation. Certainly we are as eager as they are to get to the bottom of what happened, really a tragic incident. But if there is a way through some kind of joint effort to find an opening to improve relations, as a National Security adviser said, then lets see. President moon has expressed his desire that this be an opportunity to improve northsouth relations, and, of course, we will just have to see how that goes. Im not sure if the north has yet responded to this entreaty from president moon, but yeah, we are certainly watching it closely. Thanks. Let me take it one step before come back to sue. One quick followup. Victor mentioned earlier that president moon gave another speech where he mentioned interkorean policy initiatives, for lack of a better word. Two, there has been a lot of it seems chatter and or push out of seoul to improve the interkorean relations. How is washington thinking about these initiatives writ large and how are you managing it . Is this causing frictions with the sanctions regime at how are we managing through these issues in terms of the bilateral relationship . Weve always seen improvement interkorean relations as being hand in hand with our shared goal of denuclearization and addressing the north Korean Missile program. As president himself has said these issues come northsouth antinuclear ration are inextricably linked. This is why an intense conversation at every level do take place, and this this is at of the working group between our two countries in which we sit down, representatives of our interagency, representatives of south Korean Agency ministry of foreign affairs, health, make sure shared goals of denuclearization and approving northsouth relations to move Forward Together and, in fact, are able to complement each other. Let me come to sue. Your take on any of this. Theres just a number of different ways we could take this, but im particularly interested in your take in what do you think prospects are for any sort of interkorean in the wake of this incident at sea and wake up moon jaein most recent statements . In the change from previous i think you know to skepticism on this and your thoughts about how we might manage this to the washington Seoul Alliance relationship. I remain skeptical. I fully understand president moons desire to make progress and make a breakthrough with north korea and again the speech, focus on peace declaration. You just talk about this continued psych with this band was killed and burned. I dont know if you read this heartwrenching letter that the victim son wrote, a teenage son, he is a sophomore in high school. He is close in age with my son. He wrote this heartfelt letter pleading with president moon to find out the truth of what happened with this whole incident. Please, president moon, restore my dads on it. He talks about his eightyearold sister who doesnt know yet that her dad has died and she goes to sleep with a picture of her dad every night. He wants to know what president militarist and rescue the father. My father was a fellow men, a public, picture. Hes asking for full disclosure of what occurred. My point is right now this one incident of public sympathy and it was he puts a dent or a bit of wrinkle on president moons push the diplomacy which we all understand why because its very frustrating, and he wants to find a breakthrough with north korea. Its going to be difficult for some time and we havent talked about it yet but you mentioned it earlier about this defector of the north korean defector, that diplomat, this revelation came up, and that also would not be good news either. Please, just if you wouldnt mind, just run with to give me to interrupt you but finished your thoughts there and please as soon as to the question of the defector so please continue on that thread so your take on that as well. I i didnt mean to preempt y, but we have this defector, the second most high defector, this diplomat who was acting ambassador. He disappeared a couple of years ago now hes, south korea confirmed he is now living in south korea. First, i am very dismayed that this information got leaked by media and south korean officials because it represents a concern for common metals, take his daughter who got separate from her parents during their escape and and i was taken back to north korea. We know just to disappear and be so much one thing but to be bece from living in south korea and any of the worst. Im very concerned about the family situation, but the point is this kind of news, this kind of news with the continuing saga, the event this that look good in terms of making or breaking the kind of breaking the president was hoping for with north korea. Tco that this revelation will in the wake of that party Day Celebration, that can then, ratchet up tensions of the peninsula 1010, or do you think more or less make in a green relations and a drive from seoul that much, or both . I think its a matter, like the party Day Celebration they had, whatever they plan will go on. But if this person gets, becomes a powerful critic, lets see what he does. Maybe he stays quite because of concern to protect his family members already becomes a powerful critic of the kim regime which would further complicate president moons adverts and relationship north korea. I will just add since were talking about this person, i do hope he makes a successful life in north korea but it do think people show that, show that alternate, living alternative life success life in south korea as possible after defection which is powerful message to send to north korea. Interesting and that was a poignant moment on her episode with ms welcome of the the alternative life and his success and the model, that was a great piece of the conversation. We got just a few minutes left. Let me squeeze in one last set of questions for you and then witt time for a couple of questions from the audience. Alliance issues, marc. We have some big items coming up on the agenda. Notably, the economic dialogue which is in two pieces these days. Talk us through that and if you wouldnt mind spending a few minutes on, ive seen reports of a possible vice Ministerial Alliance dialogue. Is that in lieu of the working group . I know there are frustrations with working group in seoul. Those two issues if you dont mind. Sure. As you said the senior economic dialogue which will meet for the fifth time next week, early next week between our other sector for Economic Affairs and his korean counterpart, the second vice foreign minister. As you said come you kicked off when you ambassador so youll be happy to know its continuing to remain viable the aspect in our bilateral dialogue. I think theres a coffee mug in it for me somewhere. Truly, truly. Right, its an opportunity for our countries to discuss a full range of issues whether its development assistance, infrastructure, digital connectivity, womens empowerment, you name it. Its really emerged over the past several years as one of the preeminent issues for us for our two countries to sit down and discuss the full range of issues. It will be followed a couple weeks later by publicprivate forum discussing the same issues, and that i think will be hosted Atlantic Council and viewable by all participants today. Regarding the other dialogue, the Alliance Dialogue you mentioned, this was proposed by the vice minister when he was here two or three weeks ago. Ive already lost track. But its meant to be a dialogue of the director general level. As we said we are continuing to at it positively, have not decide either way, but i think its safe to say that the conversations at various levels between our two countries are always welcomed but were still looking at it and need to figure out how it would fit in among the other dialogs we have going on. Outstanding, thanks. I dialogue about a dialogue. I love that. The last quick comment for you. New Energy Attache at the embassy coming in. Interesting. The Energy Relationship seems to be burgeoning and its a serious undertaking when agencies put resources into embassies, especially nonstate Department Officials that dont have huge overseas role. This is pretty significant in terms of resource allocation and a signal at since. Right. I think we can publicly count on one maybe two hands the number of Energy Attaches went anywhere around the world. Cindy going to our embassy in seoul absolutely conscious that his reflection reflection of the increasing prominence of our Energy Related relationship with the republic of korea. Korea is a major producer of American Petroleum picks something i would note that also take place on your tenure several years ago, of course north korea is a major producer of natural gas. This is reflection of the fact that when you talk about our security relationship, our alliance, its not just the military aspects of this. We have to look at security very broadly and that includes energy security. The u. S. Is absolutely a safe and reliable and secure partner for south korea to trade in energy, and i think our attache presence in the embassy is a reflection of his growing important relationship. Thanks, marc. Were out of time. Let me just get a couple of questions in from the audience really fast responses. They are good questions. Marc, im going to put these to you just quickly pick you mentioned the Economic Outlook and importance of the Digital Economy and obviously with that comes cyber. The cyber response. We have question from friends in japan here that asks u. S. Government has determined that a cyber attack on japan would qualify for an american response under the treaty i believe. Dont know if thats right a wrong but other similar discussions in korea . Thats one. And two, the second question is, i see that the Korean Ambassador in beijing has called for the rok to join nations global Data Security initiative. How serious is this and have you seen other countries in the region approached . Okay, regarding the first question. Sure, i mean, cybersecurity, information security, protecting privacy maturing the sanctity of data are all subjects we have ongoing discussion with korea all the time. Issues have emerged major topic on various agendas. Without going into too much detail i think its safe to say we are discussing intensely issues related to cybersecurity. As for the second question i do not have an answer to that. Sorry, i really am not aware of that quote or that statement. A stumper. All right. The last question i will throw to sue. You have seen, its a question from france in korea, the question is the comments of the south Korean Ambassador on the fact that u. S. Is our oks ally, for china biggest trade partner. These remarks create Media Attention in seoul. A little bit in washington. What do you think about the remarks and what would be your response when you discuss multilateral issues such as the quad . On psycho what was the exact quote . I missed at. The quote that was sent to us is the u. S. Is our oks ally which is china is think about a a future of the roku. S. Alliance. It goes from there. I think for south korea it so complicated. You talk about quad which is public figure on one it does present an opportunity for south korea further integrity and reach a security architecture. Opportunity for south korea to consolidate its middle power credentials, but we talked about today discontinuing lingering tensions with japan. Its not going to go away. Very fragile, we achieve achieh china since a whole fiasco. These relationships and south korea neighbors make it difficult for south korea i think to join the quad. I think this makes their position for a complicated, out complicated situation. All right. With that, that is a last winter we are out of type it overtime. Just a big thanks to marc for coming on the show for the third time. We really appreciate it. And answering all the tough questions and questions the audience as well. We really, really to appreciate the tiger thanks to victor of course as always, and sue, great stuff that you always vault over the high bar we set for you on the show. Marc, just in closing i would say, we are down the stretch year in kb oh. In c, your team is doing well. I think we have slightly i dont know if you can break up. There it is. You throwing out the first pitch at the nc dinos came back when you in seoul. Great for. I think you brought them good luck much to the chagrin of my bears and it was a son going to leave you with this. I do have the chronic nc dinos gets coming to you soon, marc. We wish them the best but im a diehard bears fan and i cant leave the loyalty. You look like you doing well and they are doing well. Its a twofer ssa. Not a the triple whammy, a two. With that thanks again to everybody. Thanks to keep it its been inside the, fastpaced, a little bit of fun, another episode of the capital cable. We will see you in two weeks. Thank you. The competition is on. Be part of this year cspan studentcam video competition, middle and High School Students be the start of a National Conversation by making light assessment document is, when e issues you are the president and congress to address in 2021. Be bold with her documentary, show supporting and opposing points of view and include cspan video. Be a winner at this one at thousand dollars in total cash prizes including a grand prize of 5000. The deadline to submit videos the genuine 20, 2021. Be informed. You will find competition rules, tips and more information on how to get started at our website studentcam. Org. The contenders about the man who ran for the presidency and lost the change political history. Tonight governor of new york and chief justice of the Supreme Court Charles Evans hughes, the contenders tonight at 8 p. M. Eastern on American History tv on cspan3. Next legal experts examine the rule of law and out its protection of recently eroded from its original intent to protecting the public from abuses of power. We heard about the use of the military and Law Enforcement against protests as well as government supported voter intimidation tactics at the polls are killed by the Brennan Center for justice this runs one hour 15 minutes jerk. We worked to reform, revitalize and defend our systems of democracy and justice, holding them up to the twin ideals of democracy and equal protection under the law. We are a nonpartisan 501 c 3 . We do not participate in elections or endorse or oppose candidates in any way, and we are very grateful to be producing todays event with the nyu Brennan Center which advocates for civil debate on politics and public policy, and nyu vote which works to give every nyu eligible student the information they need to vote. I am especially grateful to be introducing an event with some of the countrys mostmp