This is hosted for north korea and japan, marc knapper. All right, good morning, everyone in d. C. , good evening everyone in korea, good day to everyone around the world. Im mark lippert, host of the cs csis, and by kia motors. And secretary pompeos trip to northeast asia and the implication for north korea. 1010 marks party day in north korea. And the development in the disappearance of the dprk ambassador to rome who is now in south korea apparently. As well continuing developments in the reporting shooting death of the south koreaen minister apparently at the hands of the north koreans. And a new vice ministerial. Our next guest and frequent guest is giving us insights into this. And he and everyone knows well, Deputy Assistant secretary for korea, marc knapper, refresh the highlights, Director Office of Japanese Affairs at the state department, director of Indian Affairs and multiple assignments throughout asia with language skills, excuse me, korean, japanese, and vietnamese and of course my favorite title of all time, representative to the spent fuel team at the facilities. And sadly, dinos running the regular season at kbo, and marc, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me on. Turning to our regulars, at georgetown, head of the csis chair program. And former director at nsc, bush two and victor, new coffee mug, good stuff. And last but not least, former cia, former nsc, taught at columbia as well, sue, i see victors book, i see the coffee mug. Looking good. All right. Welcome back to the program. Lets get to it. This week secretary pompeo traveled to japan, originally slated to also stop in korea, i believe mongolia and those were put off for later dates. The japan trip held. Two highlights from the trip and i want to ask mr. Napper about that. First, meeting with the new japanese Prime Minister and also a meeting with the quad in tokyo at the foreign minister level with the indians, australians, japanese, and of course, us as well, the United States. So, marc, lets take these in turn. Your impressions from the suga meetings, what are the take aways for the u. S. Japan Alliance Going forward . First off it was a pity the secretary couldnt continue on with his whole program to, as you said, both seoul, but everything going on with the president s health, i think, regrettable, but certainly understandable. I hope he had to reschedule. And as you said he made it to tokyo, significantly he was able to meet with the new japanese Prime Minister, we had a great relationship with him as cabinet secretary. And when he was cabinet secretary, he met with vicepresident pence and met with secretary pompeo. This was a chance to build on a relationship that was already solid and really, the new Prime Minister is a devotee of the alliance and someone who is very committed to ensuring that the u. S. Japan relationship remains the cornerstone of both of our policies in the region and were looking forward to deepening this relationship in the months ahead. As for the quad, it was the second time we met at the foreign minister level. And the time that we had the indian and foreign minister flying in and we had to see it go forward, but it was a pretty grueling schedule and i think the secretary spent 20 hours on the ground before turning and coming back here. For us, the quad, it really does represent, i think, an understanding among our four countries about the need for democracies, liberals, and the economies such as ourselves to get together and discuss our shared values, to discuss our shared interest, to discuss ways in which we can cooperate and address the challenges in the region and around the world. Marc, thanks for the excellent readout. Since this show is focused on korea and also northeast asia and asia at large and political issues and geopolitical issues. What should the koreans take ago way from this . What shutdown seoul take away from this . What comes to mind is seoultokyo relationships . I think that the Prime Minister recognizes the importance of instructive and productive relationships between our countries, the trilateral relationship. And what we share is meeting the north korea challenge. I would fully expect Going Forward the Prime Minister will work with us, work with the republic of korea on our shared challenge with pyong yang. At the same time were looking for other areas where we can cooperate. Its important for us, again, to realize we share values and we share goals and hopefully as we proceed, seoul and tokyo will find a way to address our issues in a way that does respect the past, but does pave the way to a brighter future. Do you sense any opportunity for improving ties or improving trilateral relations between the nations in the wake of the Prime Minister and b, secretary pompeos trip to the region . The tri lateral relationship was among the topics that the secretary raised not just with the Prime Minister, but the former minister. And the new slate, new leader, that doesnt always present opportunities. We have to be skillful how we deal with it. Certainly, a lot of our efforts to work with our partners in the region arent always on the front page of the news, we try to be discrete when we deal with these matters, but we definitely see opportunities to try and improve things. I think we were all heartened by the very warm exchange of greetings between president moon and the new Prime Minister, and so, you know, well start here and see how things go. Okay, thanks, mark for that really interesting take. Victor, i want to come to you on the trilateral and seoul talk yo piece. Well get to you in a second. Ill come back to you on the quad. I am on this basket of issues, seoul, tokyo, trilateral relationship. Sure, so, mark, you know, mark is being diplomatic because hes a diplomate. This relationship is about as bad as, you know, i wrote a book on this, its about as bad as its ever been, unfortunately. And i do think that theres an opportunity with a new Prime Minister. You know, abe, i dont think ever intended for the relationship to be bad. You know, he spoke about korea in his first speech in the United States, it was actually at csis. You know, he did his best on the deal. And i think he wanted to build relations with korea, but so much stuff happened and he ended up being just i mean, he as the Prime Minister just became an obstacle to any possible improvement of relations, the fact that suga is now there and even though hes almost live like abe 2, the personalities changed. Pompeo was in tokyo and trilateral, thats important that that happened. So the president , it was good, and it was good that they made statements with sugas positive forward looking, but i think the main thing, they have to see the u. S. Has to see this improved relations as important even its not conducive to any sort of improvement in interkorean relations, i mean, theyre focused like a laser on interkorean laser and peace regime stuff in the year and a half that they have left. In fact, president moon spoke at another event last night the primary thing he talked about, the only thing he talked about was a peace declaration, and so and so we have to think about, cannot see trilateral and seoultokyo relations as being irrelevant to that goal. If thats the goal theyre after, they need to understand that this is important. You know, in their effort to achieve that goal. You have to get concensus with everybody in thats the goal you want to achieve and i think thats, you know, thats sort of the primary dilemma right now. They see no need for it because they dont see it as conducive to the goal theyre trying to achieve. Which is this declaration. Excellent insight and analysis and you also teed up and teased our interkorean topic that will come here shortly. Before we get to that, quad, you gave the overview to lay down discussions about values, importance that these other Foreign Ministers came to tokyo to engage in a really important dialog at a critical time. In the background briefing on, i think it was on the return trip by the secretary, there were quotes from Senior State Department officials on background who talked about the secretary would move to institutionalize this framework. Two questions here, what does that mean in terms of institutionalizing and what can we expect to see Going Forward from this . Thanks. Well, just a brief history of the quad. I am ooh im, it started in 2004 as our countries cooperated in the boxing day, the september 26th tsunami in the ocean and i think the recent waxing has been a result of the recognition that our four countries do Share Interests and values. So, really, when we talk about institutionalizing it, i think it means to regularize it and come up with meetings at various levels not just the foreign minister, but lower levels, but also to come up with Something Like a work plan which would include a number of cooperative efforts whether its security, whether its infrastructure development, about its Traditional Development assistance, whether its in the energy sphere, connectivity, road building, that kind of thing. And so, you know, were its still early and its still meant, i think, to be sort of envisioning a fabric that would connect all of us throughout the region and to perhaps the question youve got about other participation. I mean, the quad was never meant to be exclusive. Its not meant to be insular and keep others out, rather, i think its meant to have other countries aspire to join countries that do share the values of those that are currently involved. And so i think well see, well see how it goes from here. But very positive mood, i think, coming out of tokyo and all four of our capitals are commit today make this work. Outstanding, mark, appreciate the answer there. Like victor you beat me to the spot and kia is a for the nba as well and let me ask a followup on that. The many of the issues that you talked about, shared values, theres also, in the quad readout, there as a lot of talk that seems to dovetail with the rock southern policy towards southeast asia. You know, is this something that the state department is encouraging the koreans to take a look at . And i only footnote this by just a bit of a similarity between tpp and other institutional frameworks in the region. I think that the koreans were interested and then tpp sort of in a hurry came together and there was, i think, you know, a moment where the koreans felt that they might be outside looking in. Is this something that the state Department Might be talking to the koreans about, hey, get in early, good to maybe take a look at this . Where are we on that basket of issues . Well, for sure, our two countries have spent a lot of time recently talking about, you know, how our respective policies, whether its the indopacific strategy for our part or creative new southern policy. How they interact and overlap and how we complement each other and as you said, centrality, its certainly key to the four quad members, foreign policies in the region, but as i said, i think we just have to see. I mean, were still at the point where were trying to figure out amongst the four of us, how this should work, but Going Forward, i mean, the minister ourselves, mentioned, i think, publicly that, you know, the idea after quad. And foreclosing anything at this point. As i said dont want to be exclusive or insular, make the fabric and make it tighter and clear are before we start to think about building it out. Fair point, thanks, marc, thanks for that take. And sue ill come to you to kickoff topic two. Victor any comments on the quad to close out topic one . Yes, as marc said, it started in 2004. I remember it well, it was my first week at nsc when the tsunami hit. And to focus on disaster response, disaster preparation. Then it became sort of Informal Group in 05 and 06 and regular consultations, as marc said, on other topics, including iraq and afghanistan. When i step back and look at this more broadly in terms of the alliances, a lot of people would look at this as the primary manifestation of an effort to network, our bilateral alliances in asia, to take what are line segment bilaterals and turn them into triangles, trilaterals or quads as marek said. Theres clearly no language about china in the quad. Its about inclusion in all of this, but you know, the sort of joke that everybody says is when you get a group of u. S. Allies greater than three together, it starts to look like, you know, it starts to look like something that is directed against china. I think either the language on this, the way theyve framed it has been very good. It fits well with the idea to multilateralize stuff in asia. The fact that they talk about oxion is important, because from that perspective they dont want to see any organization of big powers squeezing out oxion in terms of regional institutions. Theyre sort of walking a good line right now and and these sorts of organizations are useful when they dont sort of say, were just going to focus on one thing. Its kind of a market. Its kind of like an amoeba, it has many different parts to and its functional more than institutional. Dangers when you Start Talking about institutionalization are we talking about a secretariat or things like that . And then i think you start to get concerns about inclusion, exclusion. And that leads us quickly we wont get into it here today, but a timehonored theme in this program about korea, china, u. S. , the squeeze, all of that. So you know, you can see that extent in Decision Making in at least surveying the quad from, i think, the korean peninsula. All right, let me go to topic two. Excellent work on topic one. Topic two coming up is north korea, october 10, party day celebration. Sue, im going to come to you first. So, we have 1010 marks party day. No major provocations post hanoi, tell me right or wrong on the question. Every five years theres usually something significant in terms of demonstration of military capability, something along those lines, and three, lots of open source chatter, imagery about something coming. So, sue, thats my inexpert take on north korea. Im turning to you to ask the question, what are we seeing now . What are we likely to see and what are kind of the take aways that you think will come out of 1010 celebrations, party day . Thanks. Youre right, i think were seeing in a few days, but on this 1010 day, i think they would display something big, some sort of a strategic weapon will be displayed. I think its very important right now to signal both strength and defiance at home and internationally to show that despite all of the domestic difficulties, troubles that we have been talking about in our program in the last several, you know, two months, i think, sanctions, covid, typhoons, the triple whammy, that he is strong, the regime remains strong, right, and besides that, promised in the address that he would reveal a new strategic weapon sometime this year. So, this is a perfect opportunity. As you mentioned, youve done your homework, that every five years, north korea does show something significant, something now. Five years ago, october 2015 parade. And the new icbm design and on the anniversary, a new missile, the first missile designed to have a range to hit guam. So we have him saying he worked for the strategic weapon. We have the he feels he needs to have strength and we have this president , five years, something new. So, you know, whether its a new slbm or Nuclear Armed slbm or its as pointed out on the show, the missile payload containing several warheads, its capable of being aimed at a different target which makes it very difficult to intercept. Makes the Missile Defense much more difficult. Whatever that is, i think theyll have to show something and of course, you also talked about the imagery showing something big. So besides showing something new, i think they will parade a whole lot of stuff out, to sort of show that theyre mass producing strategic weapons, you know, scores of something. So, then they have this, showing something new and as for this stuff, its all a warning to washington to whoever comes in november, whether trump, you know, trumps second term or vicePresident Biden. That north korea is continuing to expand its Nuclear Missile arsenal and washington is not on its side. And sue pieced that out. Theyre walk ago bit of a line here, in terms of they have got domestic politics as you mentioned, a fiveyear anniversary for lack of a better term. So, theres a desire to do something big, but they also are dealing with this in the middle of a u. S. Election, right . Unlike 15, unlike 10, right . That its a little different. What kind of line do they have to walk here . This is not a normal election year. Normally you would see this, and csis with the study, which is a window. The average of 4. Five weeks, its before or after the election so we we have seen something instead of provocation. Its not a normal election year. There are things to consider. First youd like to deal with President Trump rather than biden so probably wants to see trump reelected. In this case he doesnt want to make trouble for President Trump, bide and provocation. If the provocation comes, i do think its going to be after the election and particularly if if its President Biden. Transition time, lets say post election to biden coming in in january, and thats the time to watch out for. If its President Trump who is reelected then i think that kym kims calculation is changed, because he said, he wants to negotiate and get some sanctions relieved. Sue, thanks for your out standing take. Victor, your take on this. The thing im looking for the october 10 parade is whether people are going to be wearing masks, that has the potential to be a big super spreader event and then, yeah, i mean, i dont disagree with sues analysis. I think its i think that thats whats likely to happen, that well see provocations after, if biden wins. I think for two reasons, one is tactical. They want to always approach a new administration from a position of strength and so they always feel, whether its right or wrong, they feel like doing Something Like this gives them a position of strength. The others, they will immediately social a President Biden with obamas strategic patience and they would want to send a clear signal that thats not going to work. Like were not going to stand for that, you know, something along those lines. And of course, what happens is if they do that, it becomes a selffulfilling prophesy because thats going to naturally influence or shape the policy review that would take place on North Carolina as soon as the new administration comes in. And if trump wins, i was on doing a conference with someone else who, you know, who is very close to the once worked in the administration was very close to trump, and is deeply involved in the campaign and he said to me that he thought if trump wins, he will do a summit with kim jongun right away, right away. And he said, and hell probably make a deal that you experts will hate. But hell play it up as his greatest deal ever, the reason hell do that is because, one, trump as an individual doesnt like loose ends. And so this is a loose end. And two, he as this person said, trump went all in on north korea. Theres no other issue where he personally went all in on in his first term and went out and met the leader all of this sort of stuff. With china, it was put lighthizer out there and wilbur ross. He went all in on north korea. He cant have that not succeed for him. So you know, so he thinks its likely that there will be this meeting right away. All right, thanks, victor, good stuff. Ive asked sue and victor to talk a little about the near, shortterm, medium term future. Mark. Take us back to the present. Where are we to recap the latest rounds . It seems like lines of communication are still open between the leaders. There was a letter a week or so ago. Can you tell us where we are in terms of dprk relations and the posture at this point in time . Yeah, i think weve continued to maintain and publicly and secretary pompeo has on a couple occasions recently that we remained open to dialog, remained open to a diplomatic solution, that we continue to hope to actualize, you know, the spirit of the singapore statement and the goals contained therein, normizing and transformation on the u. S. North korea, relations and northsouth relations, et cetera. So at that remains. At the same time until north korea responds to the will of the International Community and addresses this nuclear and illicit missile program, the Pressure Campaign will continue. I would point out that of course, chairman kim recently announced or released publicly, you know, the sympathy note or some kind of expression of, you know, get well soon kind of card to President Trump, which i dont know if anybody remembers the last time the north koreans publicly expressed sympathy to the United States was 9 11. So, its been 19 years since weve had that kind of, you know, public expression of sympathy. So, take it as you will, but its a good sign, i suppose, that chairman kim is watching and expressing concern about our leader. Okay. Thanks, mark, im tempted to ask you what do you make of the fact that its been 19 years and we havent had an express like that, as you mentioned. Any thoughts there or are you just, youre just noting it for the record, more or less . I dont know, i suppose its a reflection that over 19 years weve been fortunate enough not to have a repeat of Something Like 9 11, but, no, i wont venture a guess on to why or whether, is there any other thought that similar notes over the years. Okay. Fair enough. Lets move on to interkorean discussions here, related topic. So lets stay on that. Were on the subject of north korea in terms of the u. S. Lets shift it to the peninsula a bit. And lets look at these two pieces. First, lets take this one first. We still have continuing fallout from this incident at sea where the dprk apparently captured and then subsequently killed and burned the body of a south korean government official. Mark, just two things, one, it seems like military tensions are still pretty high, at least according to open sources in south korea, the medias reporting on that and two, interestingly, the blue house, according to open source reports, if im correct here, put out a statement that National Security, Robert Obrien last thursday expressed, first of all, condolences of course for the terrible tragedy. But also, on a policy issue, support for the south korean governments proposal to find, im quoting here, truth through truth through the inner korean dialog. Comments on both of those issues, tensions and the inner korean piece as well. You know, very virtually within the same day as the south korean government came out with its expression of outrage about what happened, you we came in behind them and offered our support for the south koreans. And certainly, you know, were as eager as they are to get to the bot many of what happened. Thats a tragic incident. If theres a way through some kind of joint effort to find an opening to improve relations as the National Security advisor said. Then lets see. I think, you know, president moon has expressed his desire that this be an opportunity to improve northsouth relations, but, and of course, you know, well just have to see how that goes. Im not sure if the north has yet responded to this entreaty from president moon, but, yeah, were certainly watching it closely. All right, thanks. Let me take it one step up before i come back to sue. Mark, one quick followup is that victor mentioned earlier that president moon gave another speech where he mentioned interkorean policy initiatives for lack of a better word. Two, there has been a lot of, it seems, chatter and slosh or push out of soul to improve the interkorean relation. How is washington thinking about these initiatives rit large and how are you managing this . Is this cause frictions with the sanctions regime and how are we managing through these issues in terms of the bilateral relationship . Weve always seen improvement in interkorean relations as being hand in hand with our shared goal of denuclearization and the north Korea Nuclear programment theyre inextricably linked. And this is why intense conversations at every level take place and this is the working point in which we sit down, representatives of our inner agency and representatives of south koreas inner agencies and ministry of Foreign Affairs and others, work out and make sure were in lockstep and that nuclearization ends and were moving forward and able to complement each other. Let me come to sue. Sue, your take on any of this. Theres a whole just a number of different ways we could take this, but you know, im particularly interested in your take in what do you think prospects are for any sort of innerkorean spot in the wake of this incident at sea and moon jaeins recent statements . Any change from previous positions where i think youve noted skepticism on this . And, too, your thoughts on how we might manage this through the washingtonseoul Alliance Relationship . So, marc, i remain skeptical. I fully understand president moons desire to make progress and make a breakthrough with north korea and the speech with the peace declaration and why not. You were talking about a saga with a man killed and burned by the north korea military. I dont know if youve read this heartwrenching letter that the victims teenage son wrote. Hes a sophomore in high school, hes close in age with my son. You know, he wrote this heartfelt letter pleading with president moon to find out, you know the truth of what happened with this whole incident and how to, now, please, president moon, restore my dads honor. He talks about his eightyearold sister who doesnt know yet her dad has died and she was asleep with a picture of her dad still every night. Really and he wants to know what was done to rescue my father. My father was a family man, a public service, liked his job, he was a patriotic, hes asking president moon for full disclosure, what occurred. And this one incident has public sympathy and puts a dent or a greater wrinkle in president moons push for diplomacy we understand why, its frustrating. And he wants to find a breakthrough with north korea, but i think its very difficult for some time. And we havent talked about it yet, but you mentioned the defector, north Korean Defector and and skeptical no, please, if you wouldnt mind, just run with the i didnt mean to interrupt you, but finish your thoughts there and please just go and i was asking to ask you about the defector and please with your take on that as well. And i didnt mean to preempt. Pt defector, second highest mo most, this diplomate, a north korean diplomate mysteriously disappeared a few years ago and now hes living in south korea. Im very dismayed that this information got leaked by media and south korea officials, there are concerns for the Family Members, particularly his daughter who got separated from her parents during their escape and now was taken back to north korea and we know, you know, to disappear and be somewhere is one thing, but to be confirmed living in south korea then youre the worst kind im concerned about the family situation. But the point is that, you know, this this kind of news with the continuing saga, the everett does not look good in terms of, you know, making or breaking the kind of breaking that president moon is hoping for with north korea. Gotcha. And sue, do you feel that that will this revelation will, in the wake of the party day celebration, the 1010, ratchet up tensions on the peninsula at all . Or do you think this will more or less make innerkorean relations in a drive from seoul that much harder or both . I think its lateral. Like the party Day Celebrations they have, whatever they have planned, they sort of go on and, but, if this person gets to become becomes a powerful critic, lets see what he does. Maybe he stays quiet because of concern to protect the Family Member or he eventually becomes a powerful critic of the regime, and which would then further complicate president moons efforts and relationship with north korea. Let me just add, since were talking about this person, i hope he makes a successful life in north korea, but i think that people show that, shows that alternate to live, successful life in south korea is possible of defection, and thats the point was the alternative life and his success and model, that was a great piece of the conversation. All right, so weve got a few minutes left marc, let me squeeze in one last set of questions for you and we have time for a couple of questions from the audience. Alliance issues, marc, weve got some big items coming up on the agenda, not notably the economic dialog, which is kind inform two pieces these days. Talk us through that and if you wouldnt mind spending a few minutes on, ive seen reports of a possible vice minister arl dialog, is that with those in seoul or those two issues if you dont mind. Sure, as you said the senior economic dialog, well meet for the fifth time next week, early next week between our undersecretary of affairs, keith crock and the second vice foreign minister. As you said, you kicked this off when you were ambassador and youll be happy to know its continuing to be vital and key aspect of the dialog. I think theres a coffee mug in it for me somewhere. Truly. And discussing the full range of issues, development assistance, infrastructure, digital connectivity, womens empowerment, you name it. Its emerged as one of the sort of preeminent issue for us to sit down. It will be followed by a publicprivate forum discussing the same issues and that, i think, will be hosted by the Atlantic Council and viewable by all participants today. Regarding the other dialog, the alliance dialog you mentioned. This was proposed by vice minister when he was here two, three weeks ago, ive already lost track, but its meant to be a dialog at the director general level. And as weve said, were continuing to look at it positively. Have not decided either way, but i think its safe to say that the conversations at various levels between our two countries are always welcomed and were looking at it and need to figure out how it would fit in among the other dialogs going on. Thanks, a dialog about a dialog, i love that. The last quick comment for you. New Energy Attache coming in and the energy seems to be burgeoning here and its a serious undertaking when they put them into embassies, particularly nonstate Department Officials that dont have a huge overseas role. This is pretty significant in terms of resource allocation and a signal at times . Right, well, i think we can publicly count on one, maybe two hands, the number of Energy Attaches we have. And sending one to seoul is a reflection of the increasing prominence of our Energy Relationship with the republic of korea. Korea is a major purchaser of american petroleum. Something i would note that also took place on your tenure several years ago, of course, north korea is it a major purchaser of natural gas and so i think this is a reflection of when you talk about the security relationship, the alliance and its not just the military aspect of this. We have to look at military very broadly and i think that includes Energy Security and the u. S. Is absolutely a safe and reliable and secure partner for south korea to trade in energy and i think those are our attache is showing the importance of the growing relationship. Were out of time and let me just get a couple of questions in from the audience, really fast responses. Theyre good questions, mark, im going to put these to you, just quickly. You mentioned the economic dialog, the importance of the digital economy, and obviously, with that, comes cyber, right . And this cyber response. Weve got a question from friends in japan here that ask, the u. S. Government has determined that in the cyber attack on japan would qualify for an american response under the treaty, i believe, dont know if thats right or wrong, but are there similar discussions in korea, thats one. And two, the second question is, i see that the Korean Ambassador beijing has called for the rok to join beijings global initiative. How serious is this . Have you seen other regions in the country approached . Regarding the first question, you know, sure, i mean, Cyber Security, information security, protecting privacy, and subjects that we have ongoing discussions with korea all the time. This is these issues have emerged, major topic on various agendas, and so, without going into too much detail, you know, safe to say that we are discussing intensely issues relate today Cyber Security. As for the second question, i do not have an answer, sorry, i really, im not aware of that quote, or that statement. So a stumper. All right, so, and then i guess the last question im going to throw to sue, sue, youve seen a question from friends in korea, the question is, the comments of the south Korean Ambassador that u. S. Allies, and china is biggest trade partner and these remarks that created some Media Attention in seoul and a little bit in washington, how do you what do you think about ambassador lees remarks and what would be your response when you discuss multilateral issues such as the quad . So, im sorry, what was the exact quote . I missed that. The quote that was sent to us, the u. S. Rok allies, and considered what we should be looking at the roc and u. S. Alliance. It goes on from there. I think we have to comment on this. For the south korea, its complicated and we have to talk about the quad and its also complicated and on one hand, it does present an opportunity for south korea further in the architecture and allows it, and it ends up in the korean affairs, opportunity for south korea to consolidate its middle power credentials, but, we talked about today. Just continuing lingering tensions with japan thats not going away. A fragile, very fragile as we had achieved with china since the whole fiasco. This relationship with south koreas neighbors make it difficult for south korea to join quad and so i think its very complicated. Its a very complicated situation. With that, thats the last word, were out of time, were a little over time. And thanks to marc for coming on the show for the third time. We really appreciate it. And answering the tough questions and questions from the audience as well. We really, really appreciate the time. Thanks to victor, of course, as always and sue, great stuff. You always vault over the high bar we set for you on this show. Marc, in closing, i would say were down the stretch here in kbo. Nc, your team is doing well. I think we have a slide, i dont know if we can bring it up, there it is, you throwing up the first pitch at the nc dinos game back when you were at seoul. Great form, i think you brought them good luck, much to the chagrin of my bears. Im going to leave you with you, i have the dinos gift coming to you. We wish them the best, but im a diehard bears fan and you know, i cant leave that loyalty, but you look like youre doing well and the dinos are doing well. So, its a twofor as they say. Not a triple whammy, but a twofor. And thanks, its fun, fastpaced and fun along the way, and well see you in two weeks. Thank you. Supreme Court Justice stev Stephen Breyer discusses on cspac cspan, cspan. Org or with the radio app. Watch live Senate Confirmation hearings for Amy Coney Barrett starting monday with Opening Statements by Judiciary Committee members and judge barrett. Watch on cspan, cspan. Org and listen live on the cspan radio app and be sure to view a play list of Amy Coney Barretts legal views. Next, a hearing on nasa Cyber Security concerns during the coronavirus pandemic, including weaknesses in the network due to nasas reliance on outside institutions such as private companies and universities. The house space subcommittee hearing is an hour and 20 minutes. Minutes. This hearing will come to order. Without objection t c