Go and vote. Good morning. Im jonathan capehart, welcome to first look Washington Post lives onestop shop for news and analysis on the most pressing issues of the day. News issues of the day. Were focused on last nights Vice President of debate as we have on many mornings. We strive to achieve National Correspondent and veteran political reporter and editor downfalls. Good morning. Good morning. I read your column this morning on the front page of the new york post. What do you give the viewers [inaudible] it was a late night and early morning, oh, my god, what a marty, fred, so sorry, just to be candid. The Washington Post. Get viewers the thumbnail of what you wrote today. I i think the some substancef the debate was the Vice President mike pence came armed with a case you were to make against joe biden and the Democratic Party, and, let harris. But time again it was clear what undermines that case most significant is the person he works for, President Trump. That was obvious really from the getgo when the discussion focused on coronavirus pandemic and the administration handling of it and the Vice President in essence recycle statements the president has made repeatedly over many, many months which he himself has said pouting with the claim is a great record against all the evidence of how this country has a much higher death toll than any major industrialized country in the world, and as senator harris and moderator susan page both asked why is that the case . It was a tough night for him to try to do what he wanted to do. The administration, the campaign, the trump folks would like to make this election a choice not a referendum but i think we were reminded again last night that it is a referendum on the president of the united states. Let me get your thoughts on something. A lot of comments of inmate about the fact none of the questions asked by the moderator susan page were actually answered, particularly from Vice President pence. Each candidate had a question they were asked that they visibly dodged, when it comes to Vice President pence it was the idea of accepting a peaceful transfer of power. For senator harris it was question about adding member City Supreme Court in response to a confirmation, and expected confirmation of judge amy coney barrett. Do you think the fact that harris and pants both dodged is questionable hurt either campaign . Not particularly but i thought it was quite revealing on both their parts i said not particularly in part johnson because the electric in this country for the most part, people and made up their minds among where they stand of people are already voting without necessarily watching these debates or even in spite of watching these debates. But i thought those were both very important moments. The issue of pledging a peaceful transfer of power is about as easy a question that a politician can get. And i think mike pence who existed before he became Vice President would have had no trouble answering that in the affirmative. His problem is the president will not commit to that and the Vice President is intentionally loyal to him, often to a fault, but i think that makes it impossible for him to do what probably in his gut is the thing you should do which is a yes, we will abide by the results of this election. I thought for senator harris she is following the lead of the person at the top of the ticket, Vice President biden has resisted answering this question since it came up, since the nomination or actually since the vacancy after the death of justice ginsburg. The fact that he will not answer it is obviously telling and the fact that she would not do it last night is also telling. Its a pretty straightforward question, would you do it, would you consider it . He does not want to answer that question because he knows it would stir controversy. He will have to deal with that issue if judge barrett if confirmed and he becomes president. Because there will be pressure from a lot of parts of the Democratic Party to do exactly that. You know, just before we came on air here online, the commissioner for president ial debates about the next president ial debate that was supposed to be in miami is going to be virtual. You have covered many debates over your career. What do you think that will do to the tenor and town of that president ial debate . Well, that and what happened last week are likely to make the tone of this coming debate somewhat closer to it last night was. But so much of that will depend on how the president decides to conduct himself. If he comes in again determined to be super aggressive, the we might have a repeat of that. I think its a little harder when the two men will be in different locations. It is just harder to conduct that kind of performance when you are remote. We will see. Ive always said people, debates and on the attitude of the participants. If people come to debate, they will debate. If they choose to come to be disruptive, they will be disrupted. They will do what they think is in their political interest and so i think well have to wait and see what the president decides he wants to do in the next debate. It will certainly feel different. Part of the debate will be held in miami, the citizens in the town hall will be in miami as well steve sold was a moderator for that debate, but the two principals will not be and there will be a different locations. Then, last night people always talk about and i think you made mention this in your column in the Washington Post, that Vice President ial debates dont usually have that much of an impact on the race but last night because the two principals of the campaign are both in their 70s, i think people, or do you think people look at this debate and looking at these two candidates as potential president , and do you think they succeeded in telegraphing that message . Particularly if senator Kamala Harris who compared to Vice President pence still relatively unknown in that regard. I think it wouldve been impossible for most people to watch that debate and that think about the fact that one of those two could end up as president before 2024. You were dealing with two older men with some Health Issues, particularly the president right now, but Vice President biden has had Health Issues in the past. Everybody who came to that debate was looking at them with that in mind. I also think really from the beginning since she was nominated or chosen by Vice President biden to be a running mate that senator harris has been seen as somebody who is capable and ready to be president if she is asked to step in. I think that her background, her record, purpose and the fact that she has run for president has helped equip turkey past that bar. So i think equipped her to pass the bar. Im going to end our discussion here on come with the grave question, that is in all your years of political reporting, conventions, debates, president ial campaigns, have you ever seen a situation as surreal as the fly landed on it candidates head in the middle of the most important moment of their career . I cant remember one. There may well have been one. Strange creatures get into open halls and do things. But i cant remember one. And particularly landing, a fly landed on the head of a whitehaired man. There was no missing what was happening, and whether the Vice President if he knew he was well composed and perhaps he didnt even realize what had happened. Twitter being what it is, a fly had a twitter account and thousands of followers within moments of that happening. Thank you very much as always are coming on first look this morning. Thanks, jonathan. Lets go over to the opinion side of the paper where you will find my colleagues Washington Post deputy Editorial Page Editor and contributing columnist karen, oh, my god. [laughing] you know what . This show speech im sorry, karen, thank you so much for already off the rails like the first debate. You know what, i just saw about come what is this 8 09, so, so some mystical President Trump was on fox News Business and he said hes not going to participate in a virtual debate as we were just come talk about with vandals earlier comes Commission President debates announced the next weeks debate that was supposed to be in miami doing President Trump and Vice President biden will be virtual. Now the president is saying hes not going to participate in a virtual debate. Mark, let me start with you. Obviously he can do that but is it to the president advantage to do that . Should he show up for debate given for use in the polls . If his doctors clear and does the recent to have a virtual debate. Its very simple. Either his doctors have said that hes not transmitting disease and hes okay, or hes not here theres a little bit of he does need to participate in the debates because he doesnt want the last debate to be the last impression people have of them on the debate stage. Its in his interest to debate and its in the American People interest to the candidates in person debating. Karen . I think hes got to debate and the debate commissions call on what the format should be. I think at this point the president was in the oval Office Yesterday come something that raised a lot of eyebrows among Health Experts for some in a situation. At this point it shouldnt be just a question of his doctors. It should be a question of what public Health Experts believe. Because if he shows up, it is not just his own health that is at risk as we are seeing an whats going through the white house right now. Lets talk about last nights debate, karen, i will start with you. This was notable for you but karen, you start. Your impression of last nights debate and did this debate move the deal in any way . I think not. I think there were few if any memorable moments except for the cameo appearance by a fly. I think basically this reinforce both sides, and it was really the trumppence ticket that actually needs the reset here if you believe all the polls at this moment. In that sense they were the losers. Marc . I think pence one on point. I think donald trump said watched videotape very carefully on how mike pence handled himself. He anticipated every attack that Kamala Harris was going to come up with and had an answer ready come at a think it was very effective. But did Kamala Harris probably one because, one, she did make any catastrophic mistakes that can be used against her and biden, and two, they are ahead. So they can do to is behind needs to change the trajectory of the race. I think mike pence did an outstanding job, but donald trump needs to really study the way he did it, and particularly what he did is he knew what the launch of attacks are going to be any weighted and let her say the things he was then going to rebut. Donald trump didnt let jill biden get a a wording edgewisee never letting walk into any traps. I think trump needs to go here to learn from this and let his opponents because joe biden is going to do more damage to himself than tonto is going to do to him by interrupting. Do you agree with marc, did Vice President pence quote, 80 winded on points . I just dont, i think they were both pretty cautious as dan pointed out a few moments ago. They were essentially playing defense for the principles. So i think its kind of hard to score a debate of this sort essentially you have two surrogates debating on points in that sense. Karen, im going to get yor reaction to something. I saw lots of traffic on twitter, particularly towards the end of the debate, theres quite a bit of commentary going on in the morning after the debate talking about Vice President pence demeanor and his demeanor towards the moderator susan page of usa today and his opponent senator, letters. Folks have called it condescending, mans going senator, the harris. Im trying to find the of the words but from your perspective how did you view Vice President pence manner and tone and demeanor when it came to the women who on the stage with him . I be interested in seeing because these things sometimes dont fully understand for fory or two after a debate but do think there was a real danger here. He did two things. He completely ignored the female moderators efforts to enforce rules that both of the campaigns had agreed to. He also ignored what the questions were. They both did that to some extent but i think pence more so. I am skeptical this is the kind of thing that suburban women sitting there watching it at home, and this is a big constituency that the Trump Campaign is struggling with, would necessarily find that appealing. Marc, i just want to read from, was channeling this piece in the Hollywood Reporter with the person writes pence appeared obnoxious come condescending and not altogether president in the moment as he ran roughshod over the two women on the stage and kept addressing issues the moderator had moved on from. If trump did his best to get his picture under the definition of quote alpha male in the dictionary lastly, pence portrait might be found under mans planing. To karens point about suburban women, do you not think that Vice President pence hurt himself in the mission of trying to get suburban women to come back to President Trump come suburban white women . I i think that analysis is a huge stretch. The reality is he treated the moderate what he wouldve treated the moderator the way he would trade a male moderator, he just debated. The fact that he didnt exactly answer the questions that he was asked or use opportunity to go back, any vessel watch president ial Vice President ial debates for decades everybody does that. Nothing different. And by the way, heres did exact same thing. The very first question she was asked was what would you do japonicum january and the Top Administration and she didnt answer it. She repeated, refuse repeatedly to say whether the Bidenharris Administration would pack the Supreme Court. Holding both to the same standard. I think the sex of the moderator and the Vice President should be irrelevant to scoring the debate. Karen, is it irrelevant, to my mind, its not, what do you think . I i dont, i dont, i mean, i think one of the dynamics here is that this is the first time that a woman of color has been on a National Political party ticket. It was also susan page, you know, is a female moderator up there. I just dont think that women watching this and especially given the struggle that the Trump Campaign has had with white women voters, suburban especially college educated. I just dont think that people are watching this with this kind of filter that doesnt take into effect gender and race. Let me get you both to talk about what you think with a high points in the low points for each candidate. Karen, i will start with you. What was the Vice President best moment and also what was the best moment for senator harris, do you think . I think in both cases it was his defense of to think he was ready for the covid question. He wasnt necessarily telling the truth, but he had the line of attack. I think hers were more when she would go after the question that involve sort of [inaudible] and what kind of country we are. In both cases they were very much reflecting the message that was chopped one for their principal. Marc . I think for harris both. Something she didnt say. The very first question was about whether, about covid, the pandemic. Unlike susan page she never said we wish the president a speedy recovery or anything. Just launched into a blistering attack. I think the absence of that was glaring and it really didnt take much to do that. I thought, agree with karen that the Vice President was ready on the covid. I thought he was very effective when wenches trying to blame the president for 210,000 deaths. He codifies president bidens own chief of staff ron klain saying they completely blue, did Everything Possible wrong during the swine flu pandemic and it was pure luck that millions of people didnt die, that there was a picture of the ineffectiveness of response to a pandemic. Of course the Supreme Court. This is such a central issue to the election, the democratic line is the americans have to decide about this but they will not tell the American People, now two debates in a general when he refused to answer the question will you pack the court . If such an unprecedented idea, 150 years with that nine justices that if they want to turn this into a rural front of the need to answer the question because otherwise [inaudible] in terms of not answering the question then, does it not distribute that Vice President pence, like his boss President Trump, refuse to answer the question of whether they would accept a peaceful transfer of power . He didnt answer that question last night. Sure, and, of course, he should have. President trump should answer that. Its as simple as speedy but what about Vice President pence . They both should have. A peaceful transfer of power. But i think thisll think about a peaceful transfer of power is a little historical. Hysterical. The sprinklers going to side, this would be bush v. Gore, a decision and its going to be enforced. Does that a single chance president , troops industry and a violent opposition to donald trump if he loses the election. Go ahead. I think the question of packing the court is a little hysterical, too. If biden takes office. Packing the court would be such extreme measure that would take such a huge, huge legislative and legal lift. I think its one of those issues that is out there perhaps, but its not just likely to happen. I actually think that the Biden Campaign is wise not to address it. In order to add judge to the court not only with joe biden have to win the presidency of the democrats would have to take over the senate, and thats just, the politics, the electoral piece of it then lets say that were to happen, the politics of getting that done would be a a huge lift. Marc, you are very kind to point out a low note or senator harris. I get you to articulate a high point . What did she do well last night . I thought, look, she prosecuted the case on covid very effectively. I thought that she made a lot of very effective point. Our handling of the covid pandemic was probably the most effective point she made it to get the debate focused for a while on the subject, which is where the Bidenharris Administration with the bidenharris team once keep the debate going. It were talking about covid, then widen and heres a winning pick up her talk about the economy as a Supreme Court i think trump and pans are winning. I think she prosecuted the case effectively. Most important honestly she did make any major errors. When your head, if you dont blow it, if you dont blow your lead then you win. Karen, this is the only Vice President ial debate that is going to be. There is supposed to be two ofe president ial debate. As i talk with dan in the opening of the show, or towards the end of our segment the news broke that President Trump said he would not take part in a virtual debate. How confident are you that we are actually going to two gore debates in this president ial cycle more. I think we will. I think the challenge with a virtual debate the next in his town hall forum, so how you sort of zoom whatever they use situation, gives viewers a real sense of genuine interaction between these candidates and ordinary voters, its going to be a challenge. I just dont think it is tenable for either candidate to walk away from the debate. Do you agree with that, marc . 100 . I think i think after the debate anything donald trump will have to participate. They should be in person. Its a very simple question. Is he medically cleared . Is he shedding virus . If he has negative test theres no reason not to do in person. If there is a positive test that of course you do a virtual debate instead. But isnt it important to know when the president last negative test was . Thats information at the white house is in releasing. Its not relevant to the debate. Its irrelevant generally. I think, well, i mean, right before the debate, if he doesnt have a negative test been of course he should debate in person, i agree with that, yes. Karen, do we know for sure when the president s last negative twist was . Last report also was we dont exactly know when that was, or do i have that wrong . We do not know when it was. The other thing is i think its not just the president s help that is at issue. If there are other people in that room, the president s team is going to have to agree to continue to wear masks inside, which they did not at that first debate. It was interesting last night, karen pence went on stage with no mask. I think there are many, many other issues that has to be taken into account, that the trump team is going to have to agree to for this to take place. Okay. So we have got two more president ial debate. We have got less than what is this . 26 days before election day. This president ial election cycle is unlike any ive ever seen security predict whats going to happen. But what are you looking for in the next 26 days as markers for with this president ial campaign is going . I will start with you, karen. I think the course of the coronavirus is right now the biggest determining factor of what remains of this election season. Both, the economic and the health causing in the country. Marc . I agree. I think that donald trump has an opportunity that so far he hasnt seized, to take his personal expense with covid and turn it around. I think he tried to do that the other day with a vegan he put out where he talked about the therapeutic that he took, which was developed under operation warp speed, and how impressive it was in terms of save his own life and restoring his help in fact, hes going to make that available for free to every american who wants it or who needs it. But i think we will also get, keep in mind will get a thirdquarter economic report which will put the economy back front and center and we will probably have come we will certainly have double digit Economic Growth so that my put the economy back in the conversation which is important for trump. One last quick question, with less than two minutes left, in terms of covid and impact on the administration. The president and the firstly are not the only two people are tested positive for the coronavirus. There are more than a dozen maybe by now two dozen people on staff who have tested positive. The joint chiefs of staff are quarantining. How concerned should the American People be about the continuity of government when the coronavirus seems to be exploding within the upper ranks of the federal government . I think we need to be concerned about the fact a lot of people gotten sick and very important positions, but at the same time weve got plenty of continuity of government in place. I dont think without any Vice President pence, if anything comforts all the president does not come now that hes had the virus and recovered from it, hes going to have some level of immunity for the immediate future so i dont think we have a situation where hes not going to be able to execute the powers of his office. Karen . I think, however the president s behavior iv moment where we all know that he is on powerful drugs, including steroids, going to continue to receive scrutiny. I think that some of these middle of the night tweets storms are not exactly instilling confidence in the public. But again, trumps baseline normal behavior isnt exactly, you know, he did that before steroids, karen. [laughing] right. We saw in full effect the first debate in cleveland. Marc and karen, thank you very much for coming Washington Post live first look at the first and only Vice President ial debate and whole lot of other subjects. Thank you. Thank you. And take you for watching the Washington Post live will be back at 10 a. M. Eastern this morning or special event about primary care in the time of covid19. On friday former democratic candidate and present Pete Buttigieg will be a to discuss his new book. You can learn about these events and more at washingtonpostlive. Com. As always i am jonathan k part of a new writer for the Washington Post. I get for watching Washington Post lies first look. Have a good morning. Our live coverage continues this morning at nine eastern when Deputy Assistant secretary of state mark napper updates about u. S. Policy towards north korea. It is hosted by the center for strategic and international studies. And 11 e. And Supreme Court Justice Stephen breyer will discuss the role of the court, live hosted by the Kennedy Institute here on cspan2 and you can find both events live online at cspan. Org or listen live with the free cspan radio app. Booktv on cspan2 as top nonfiction books and authors a few weekend. Saturday at 9 15 p. M. Eastern donald trump, jr. On his book liberal privilege. At 11, former second Lady Lynne Cheney chronicles the leadership of four of the first five president s from virginia. On sunday at 9 p. M. Eastern on after words former cia director john brennan speaks about his life and career in his book undaunted, my fight against americas enemies at home and abroad. Watch tv this weekend on cspan2. Cindy mccain widow of the late senator john mccain spoke about the need for stability across the nation at an event called the restoring respect conference. This is 45 minutes. Thank you to her audience for being with us and a special thanks to cindy mccain for joiningis us today with an important discussion on civility. Mrs. Mccain is joining us less than a month before our general election, and the first question i would like to post to her is, good to see you there. Americans are more divided than theyve ever been in my lifetime. Weve got people, georgia both parties saying to be upset if there candidate they think the other party is a threat to our republic. Your husband the late senator john mccain was a champion of working in reaching across the aisle, establishing bipartisanship and trying to work collectively toward the common good. Why do we t find that such a remarkable thing today . Whats happened . Theres so many reasons. First of all thank you for having me. There are so
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