9 30 tomorrow so those watch tragic, good morning. As with past virtual lectures there will be time of the talk for our guest to answer any questions you might have. Feel free to ask a question by clicking on the q a icon and split them there 0 or vote for other commit submitted questions. Id like to introduce thomas bowman, class of 2013 who we introduce our spending are foe the evening. Thank you, jeremy. Steven farnsworth is professor of International Affairs and director of the center for leadership and media study at the university of Mary Washington. The coauthor or author of send books and a 201 recipient of the virginia outstanding faculty award from the state council of Higher Education for virginia. In addition, dr. Farnsworth has won three campuswide Teaching Award at Mary Washington. The alum anytime Association Outstanding young factually member bar. The married Teaching Award and the richard poll mary outstanding award. Dr. Farnsworth, american studies at umw has caught touters plate malkin, journalism and political education at georgetown university, George Mason University and methodist college. Now, dr. Farnsworth and i connected while i was at the university of Mary Washington, and its difficult to make personal connections in the covid era but one person that students should absolutely go out of their way to get to know is dr. Farnsworth. I was educated and came out in 2013 into a very tough job market and dr. Farnsworth reached out and placed me in an internship where he thought i would excel. Those people ran, barack obama, Hillary Clinton and joe bidens campaigned at one point or another. And i would not be where i am today in virginia if we had not built this personal connection. And that is something of value that this college can deliver in any format, digital or in person. And so it is now my honor to present tonights desk as he presents late night humor and the american presidency. Dr. Fortunateworth, the floor is yours, welcome to mary talks. Thank you so much, thomas. Its great to see you and roo mind how much success you have had and what you have made at your education. Im going to talk now about my book for a bit and then well have an opportunity to have a conversation about issues i would be glad to answer in response to the questions you offer. But first i want to offer up a few shoutouts. First to my coauthor, at george mason who worked with me on self of my books on media and politics. I also want to have a shoutout to some of my current and former students who have helped as Research Assistants on this project. It is very difficult to imagine the volume of political humor we have looked at over the years and it is requires a great del of help from students and so my thanks to jeremy engle, noah gardner and kate seltzer of mary wolk and those who worked with dr. Electricitier, and all these people were a wonderful help to this project and one of the things that we can too at Mary Washington is offer opportunities for students to work with professors on their research, and fortunately for me my current topic of political humor does have a certain level of interest for the students and hopefully for you folks here tonight. I want to give you a general sense but political humor. Im going to talk mostly tonight about recent late night come shows and the way in which theyve covered recent president s. Its important to know that political humor is something that has existed across the time of human existence. In a way i think humor offers up an opportunity to cope with life challenges, an opportunity perhaps for those people who dont have power to bring town a peg or two the people who do. And if we look across Human Experience in different cultures, western and nonwestern, we see that political humor has been one of the ways that ordinary people have coped with bad times and bad leaders and with centralization of power that often occurs in political systems. And so we look at the greenings the romans, the middle ages, youll see over and over dean there is political humor that is part of the way they cope. Also true that even in tote tow tall tear yap societies theres a lot of totalitarian seats thats theres a lot of political humor. The cia compiled a series of jokes that russians would tell to friends but stalin. So even in the worst, darkest days days days of a totalitarian rule, humor is still going on. In the United States, of course, we have had a lot of political humor from the very start of our days as an independent republic. Before independence, we were even making jokes about the crown and then after independence, we started making jokes about our political figures. And that occurs of course in ways dependent on the technology of the time. We had mark twain, 100 plus year ago, making joke put the political figure of his day. He was famous for saying that congress is americas criminal class. And we had will rogers 100 years ago, and then of course, Foreigners International comic have made fun of us as well so america is an ample supply of humor and were particularly attuned to political humor in the United States because of our political culture. Remember, we are at our core a political system that was built by revolutionary figures, people who were very concern but centralized authority and centralized power, and our revolution, which was a revolution against centralized power, and our political system itself, were developed in ways to make sure that nobody became too elevated, became to high. We separate church and state so that the political figures are not religious figures, theyre secular figures and they have all those human flaws. We also, though, created an environment where our political power is divided, where individual people, be they members of congress, part of the court system, part of the executive branch, only have so much control over political outcomes and so they have to work together. And we want to build a system as well in our founding that the people rule to the mask extent possible, and the maximum extent possible and we have elections to keep political figures responsible. Given how interested we are in limited power and government it should come as no surprise that we are focused intensely on bringing those political elites down to size. Nobody is more of a political elite than a president in our political system. Theres an old saying that good comedy punches up, and bad comedy punches down and theres so much attention to american president in american political humor. Aristotle, who wrote but political humor, more than 2,000 years ago, said that humor makes everyone worse than average when theyre the subject of political comedy and that makes sense i think from the way in which we cope with difficult environments. And to give you an example of how this works, i want to draw your attention back to 9 11, when the terrorist attacks of 2001 took place, the comedy shows all went off the air for a while and one of the first ones back was saturday night live, based in new york and really is a leading new york City Cultural institution but its a national Cultural Institution as well on nbc. Good the wanted to create a comedy environment where we can cope with tragedy bus theres also a saying that good comedy is tragedy plus time and part of our healing was starting to laugh again, and Loren Michaels of saturday night live asks the mayor of new york city, rudy giuliani, one of the heros of that moment of 9 11, can we be funny again . And giuliani offers up, perhaps the first joke of the post 9 11 environment and says, why start now . And that moment opens up the possibility for even those kinds of topics can something as horrific as 9 11 to be the subject of political humor, and so as we look at this process, we really do see that were talk about political humor that is designed to cope with tragedy, its tee signed to designed to offer up in kind of masked aggression with respect to political leadert or people who think theyre better than we and are that creates a significant way to bring political figures down to size because, remember, in america that is one of the things that we do. We dont like politics who think too much of themselves. I have a few slide is want to show you as part of this conversation to give you a sense how we built this Research Project and what we found. Im going to share the screen and give you an opportunity to look at the research we have done. One of the things that is important for us to discuss with yall is the sense the way we built this Research Project, and this is a collaboration between the center of media and Public Affairs at George Mason University and the center nor leeway and media studies at Mary Washington and we looked at all the late night night political jokes during the first year of the Trump Presidency and looked at the comedy during the campaign and we used the same shows. But what we did here was basically focus on the network shows, jimmy kimmel live, late night with Stephen Colbert and the coach show with jimmy fallon and then the daily show with trevor noah. We looked at all their jokes during that time and tried to make this as scientific a study as possible. We looked at the target, whether it was policy conversation, whether the jokes related to personal matters or political matters, and so on. But those shows i think only tell us part of the story of political humor in contemporary america and so we also engaged in a Qualitative Analysis of programs that run once a week. Saturday night live, full frontal with samantha bee and last week tonight with john oliver. And so as you look at this content, the content of the late night comedies were look for those who know these shows well, were looking at this in the cop text of the first ten minutes of the program. These programs have particular live with respect to the traditional format of the late show and the tonight show, those shows do have a lot of time spent talking with political figures, talking with guests and were looking at really is a monologue at the front but its a huge amount of political humor. Were looking at over 6,000 political jokes during the comedy programs leading during the first year of the Trump Presidency. And we looked at over 2300 jokes during the Campaign Season of 2016, which well also talk about as we make our way through the argument. Now, i think what is important to notice above all is the extent to which donald trump has become the center of political humor in america. If you look at this slide i have up now which look ted leading targets of late night how how manyyear you can humor you can see how much is connected to donald trump. The overwhelming number of jokes directed at donald trump. The stories that looked at the Trump Administration more generally, also rate very high as do some of the other people in the trump family or the trump orbit. Sean spicer was the first press secretary for President Trump. He got into troublealmost immediately when the talked but the crowd size being bigger for trumps inauguration over the obama inaguration, although the pictures show the inauguration for obama was much bigger. And then roy moore a candidate for the senate in alabama and about to in trouble with his interest in connecting with young women, sometimes women under the age of 18 during his year as a prosecutor. Donald trump jr. , a member of the trump family, Jeff Sessions was trumps first attorney general, first lady melania trump, Vice President mike pence. Over and over gone the humor is very much directed at members of the Trump Administration or the trump orbit. Anthony scaramucci was the Communications Director for President Trump but only lasts of few weeks and rounded up the top of the list here. Hillary clinton is the first democrat in the conversation in terms of she volume of political humor and then a number of other folks connected to the Trump Administration and then Vladimir Putin, barack obama, and james comey, the fbi director at the start of trumps presidency becomes a major source. As you look at these voices of political humor, you see a significant orientation towards the Trump Presidency and towards trump personally. Now, part of this of course is the nature of news. If you think but what is in the news and what you are going to be talk about in late night comedy its very presidency focus. In my other research including my become on the mediated presidency, we looked at the newest content and found the conversation about washington is almost entirely presidency focused. If you look at the evening news or the leading news sites online or offline, the conversation focuses much more on the president and what the president is doing than what is happening in congress or any other place in washington. And that creates an environment that i think sets the stage for a president ial wherely focused conversation but humanyear. And its also important to recognize that humor has to have a little familiarity with the subject and that is one of the key impacts that political humor does have. It can be a vehicle for at least some measure of political learning. A joke about republicans senator Mitch Mcconnell, the majority leader in the senate, is only funny if you know who Mitch Mcconnell is, and you have in sense of what he looks like or the way he behaves because so much of this humor requires a certain level of knowledge but the figure. A joke but put pit is not funny if you dont have a sense of who Vladimir Putin is. Now, i want to talk about comparisons here. In the book i go into the differences among the individual late night shows and how hey approach things a bit differently. The one main distinction i would draw nat going to give you a slide with a lot of data but the one main distinction i draw is that jimmy fallon is a bit less critical. You thing of Stephen Colbert much more critical than other late night comes and gemmy fallon in particular has gotten some some trouble with respect to the way he treated President Trump. You may recall pressured was a celebrity on nbc, the apprentice, and celebrity aplenties before he was a president ial candidate and did appear on the fallon show before he was president , and during that campaign appearance, it was little more than that jumpy fallon playfully rubbed trumps hair. The question was is trump residents hair real and this friendly bantering interview with jimmy fallon and donald trump really had an impact on his ratings. If you think about the folks who are watching late night comedy they ten to be younger and Younger Voters skew more democratic and there was a significant imenact rates. After that incident jimmy fallon lost out as a top rateed late night show to Stephen Colbert and struggled to catch up with kolbert ever since. Now, repp when you lock how president ial candidate donald trump is compared to previous president s you see a powerful difference here. If you response upon a tim when you thought it late night comedy you thought no president would if be the subject of more jokes than bill clinton. He was an aging legislate that areow who was particular lay target of late night comedy during the 1990s. The lewinski seasonal, bill clinton sometimes inconsistent statements relating to his vietnam or inconsistent behaviors in other areas lends itself to comedy. The more seriously you take yourself as a political figure, the riper a target you are for comedy, particularly as a president or president ial candidate, and so if you look at the number of jokes told by during the Campaign Season about president s and president ial candidates you see donald trump stands alone. In 201, 3100 jokes about donald trump the president that is far, far more than any other president. Eight years earlier Barack Obamas first year as president , 936 jokes about him. If you look at donald trump the candidate, 1800 jokes about him during the 2016 campaign, and thats more than three times the number of jokes told about Hillary Clinton the democratic nominee that year but also far more than previous candidates. John mccain, who ranked second in terms of president ial candidates in the humor directed at them, 1358 jokes during the Campaign Season of 2008. When you look at the dynamic here, you can see that the rankings increase generally with time and i think that has to do with larger issues about our political moment and our political environment. Theres a market for political humor and that market has been growing. Theres more and more interest in these comedy shows and more and more interest in the comedy shows in taking attacks or taking making light of political figures. It isnt just the shows that air at 11 30 because one of things youll notice in our modern environment is these things get shared, peer to peer if you look at youtube, look at instagram and facebook, these clips make their way throughout the universe of social media, and so the impact they have is even greater i would argue than was the case when we were looking just primarily at who was tuning in at that hour and the jokes and the impact they might have that night, and then perhaps the next day as people talked over the water cooler or over the lunch table about what was the last thing that was said on Johnny Carson or jay leno. I think this is one of the reasons why we see so much more focus on political humor now. I think that the environment is more partisan and coarser than it was historically and so the last several years i think have created an opportunity for a much more vicious mockery than you saw in the past and also a much higher volume of it. I also think that donald trump creates a lot of opportunities for political humor. Compare barack obama to donald trump for a moment. What barack obama tried to do in his connection with political humor was tried to connect with the host. One of the tricks of successful management of political humor when youre a political figure is to kind of go along with the joke or show you have a sense of humor. Once upon a time, back in world war ii, there was fdr, president roosevelt, and his dog falla and that dog was left behind on a military trip to alaska, and when fdr found out that the dog had been left behind, or the people realized the president ial dog had been left behind the sent a ship to get the dog and fdr made a joke the dog was upset about the whole business of being left behind and so this could have been a moment of sort of wasteful spending during a wartime, but instead fdr turned it into a joke about an angry scotch terrier upsift about the amount of money being sent and not being central enough in fdrs calculations that the dog was left behind. When Ronald Reagan once gave a speech and dropped all of his papers on the ground, he scooped them up and said, well, doesnt really matter what order theyre in anyway. Only ten seconds of this will be on tv and when he makes a joke like that, you really sort of humanize the person and so instead of making a joke about Ronald Reagan and maybe not being as organized as he might have been he, along with fdr before him, created an opportunity to laugh at ones self and this is one over the things i think makes a successful management of political humor by a president. So, getting back to barack obama. Barack obama had a key policy issue he focused on during his years as president and that was trying to increase the enrollment of people getting healthcare in america. This was the Affordable Care act, obama cars and also a question of getting people to enroll and one of the things that he did was to go on other show called between two ferns starring satch galifianakis. And the trade jobs with zach. And president obama talks about how satch galifianakis was lucky he had bigger stars to save the movies, the hangover movies he was involved in. And so on. But in the end president obama had an opportunity to pitch the face the Affordable Care act and young people getting enrolled and the number of enrollment went up afterwards. What you saw with barack obama was he could take a joke and give as well as he got with respect to humor, and also in one of the most famous clips involving barack obama and donald trump, barack obama savaged donald trump at the out who Correspondents Dinner during the both when he said donald trump was handling serious issues like which chef should be fired at the trump resort. So all these things going on that really made barack obama somebody who was a tough target to hit when it came to political humor. Donald trump is very defendant. He gets in lots of fights with these late night couple mixed. Doesnt like the way Stephen Colbert treats him and doesnt like in particular the way alec baldwin emper nates hem and men donald trump thats bald win is a hack actor thats good for saturday night live because it draws more attention to saturday night live and good for donald trump because one way he has maintained his support among this supporters is by attack thing me ready and some ways late night comedy is media and some weighed its. No certainly not required to be objective. These are for profit commercial operations these late night shows and if theyre not providing a product that people want, it wont be good for business and it wont be profitable. So theyre not subject to the kind of objectivity or professional standards of news. They take things further than reality might consider appropriate or fair but theyre not about being fair. Theyre about being funny. Another thing with donald trump is the extent to which he is very, very angry and frustrated in public and he really does say things that are inconsistent with things he said in the past. And those kinds of discrepancies is where humor lies according to stephen kolbert. Kolbert says the reason he talks to much about Donald Donald trus because theres a big gap between what donald trump says at one time and says at another time, or between what donald trump says and what the factual reality might be. I dont know what late night comedy will do when a year from now or five years from now donald trump is no longer president , but the reality is that for the moment, this has donald trump has been very, very good for business. Now there is a significant disparate where between the way that candidates are treated as you look at the democratic and republican candidates. These are Election Year comedy discussions. And so over and over again you see that there is more humor directed at the republicans, marked on the red loan, than the democrats marked on the blue. This is an arrangement that we discussed in a monkey cage Opinion Column in the Washington Post and the book. There is a steady disadvantage or advantage in terms of the late night comics saying more but republican candidates for democratic it its true if neither okayed for the presidency is currently in office. What you can also see as you look at the trends going back to 1992, and going through 2016, is a significantly widening gap over time. Now that was particularly pronounced in 2016 compared to four years earlier but you look across the trend going back to 1992 you see a very distinct increase in the gap between the way that republican candidates have been treated and the way that Democratic Candidates have been treated and again you might look at this in the context of the issues of partisan bias but i think that kind of misses the point because ultimately what is going on here is a Business Model that is very, very focused on the bottom line. I think certain kinds of media or Entertainment News or entertainment media, whatever term you prefer, lend themselves to more effective targets. The iconow class sick nature of late night comedy may lend itself to the more democratic sensibilities. Late night comedy has not been successful when offered up by republicans. Fox news tried to do its own version of the daily show and had one of the worst audience shares in the history of political humor and canceled after a few months. But at the same time that democrats seem to be more interested in late night republicans conservative voices are much more effective on talk radio. The different medium suggests different kinds of dynamics, and i do think that for as we look at these things, again, because of the focus on our talk today, im talking primarily political humor related to late night comedy but if you compare across the range of news and Information Sources you see some things work better than others. The democrats tried to create a liberal talk radio but never had the audience that conservative talkade hoe has and the rate little for msnbc do not compare to the high ratings that you see on fox news when it comes to that conversation. But it may be that the different temperments of different kind of elements of the electorate may lend itself more to one format or another. I think that theing a be you can hear some anger you can hear on talk rayow program wood not translate well to political humor and the mostly cloudying mocking mummer would not lendtotalk radio either. Now, i want to give you a sense of how this contrast works over time by taking an a twominute clip from Johnny Carson who is one of the dominant voices of late night comedy nor a generation. If you look at what carson said in this clip im about to show you from 1989, and his comments pouts Ronald Reagan you can see how far we have changed. Im not going to toe show you a clip from 2019 or 2020. You have seen those or can see them very easily, but compare the harshness of late night comedy you see today with the harshness or the lack of harshness more precisely with the Johnny Carson oriented humor looking at Ronald Reagan. So, think about that as we open it up for questions. One other point to make. Before i show you the clip. It returns us back to this issue of good comedy punching up and bad comedy punching down. And that may explain one reason why conservative humor has not been so successful. I suppose you could make a joke about immigrants or people who are homeless on late night tv, but i dont know there would be an audience for that because these are not necessarily groups that have that kind of power and authority that allows for mockery to be seen in good taste. But the question that i leave you with before we get to the carson clip is who exactly determines where up and down is. If you look at the thesecome shows, these are not comedy shows that are as reflective of the midwest, the american middle, as was the case in carsons era. You have shows that are produced on the coasts for a coastally oriented audience, that may come up with a very different point of view. If you are not a trump supporter i encourage you to watch late night comedy with the thought that how would a trump supporter look at the humor so much of it focused on the president. How would that be received and then you might think between about this idea of good comedy punching up. From the point of view of, say, a working class white industrial worker in the midwest or a farmer in the midwest, and theyre looking at these attacks on the president they support, they might look at this and say, this is simply not people punching up at people in power but they are coastal elites punching down at people like me, people who believe in what i believe. And so i think one of the things to think about in terms of the future of political humor is this question about where you can connect with the wider range of voters in the country, the wider range of potential viewer of the shows because right now, when you do Public Opinion surveyed of people who onehalf late night we see the audience skews to their more democratic side and skews to the younger audience, under 30, and also skews towards the audience in on the east coast and west coast. So are there those dynamics. Now allow know take a moment here to reset the screen here for a look at the Johnny Carson clip and then after that ill open it up for questions. Watch thing news a moment ago. The president watch thing news. Apathwayly the president mrs. Reagan are in california, even though he does not officially leave office until the 20th of january and their new home in belair. They had an awkward momentum today. A little old lady from the welcome wagon showed up. And Six Secret Service agents wrestled her to at the ground and stomp. On he aprillefood cake. Angel food cake. An advantage to been as expresident. His gardner has a stealth leaf blower. So reagan can sleep late. They asked the president what he would. Do he said is his going to write his memoirs. That is fascinating. The last two years he is telling us he cant remember a thing. [laughter] funny how other big check from random house can jog a persons memory. Well, i do remember that now, yes rake rays are having dinner tonight witness best guess who . He is rich enough to qualify as a friend of reagans if you sea reagan at dinner should be a wonderful conversation, well, ooh. Well, ooh. [laughter] all night long, well, ooh. Ill be honest i didnt get an invitation to dine with the president but ill be at jack in the box having finger food with dan quayle. A im asking you to make a dodo nation right and so what you see here with this conversation is an extraordinary sense of the gentle way in which a generation ago. Political humor treated political figures. American politics has course and, why would we expect anything different . From American Public humor reflecting what we, the people and we, the audience are looking for. I will hand it back to jeremy to offer up some questions. We have a good number of questions here so were going to start at the top. Baker asked, President Trumps brings some humor that target him. He was made fun of. His rhyme or reason . Whats the difference between helpful and harmful from the targets perspective . The examples you mentioned occurred before trump ran for president so its important to recognize a person whos on their way up is in a different position than someone who has some within his president. He was, he was a target saturday night live, he hosted saturday night live and was treated as a regular guest on these comedy shows during the 80s and 90s when he was a Real Estate Developer trying to sell product. He is trying to sell donald trump university, Donald Trumps estate and of course donald trump resorts golf courses and wineries so you can see why its good publicity when i have trouble products to sell but when youre in a political environment as a president ial candidate for president , i dont think it works particularly well. You see a lot of political figures who can make some level of joke about themselves, fdr and reagan as an example, john f. Kennedy was another. Even Abraham Lincoln made jokes about how he was ugly in the middle of the civil war as a way to lighten the mood so the clearly is a way in which you can do this effectively and i think barack obama was one of the president we can show in the recent era that was pretty good at this. Sometimes the temperament of the president doesnt lend itself humor the same way. If i were to take two president s who were not good at this, donald trump and bill clinton. They both were thinskinned whether personal life was concerned, not willing to engage in friendly banter that lends itself to positive treatment. When youre running for president , these are shows that have a lot of people might not think that much about politics so during the last year or so, we seen one democratic candidate after another on kimmel and fallon, its a chance to be heard in the national audience, it doesnt have a lot to say about politics and that is a vehicle so i think trump has come to the conclusion most of his supporters are not going to be reached this way, more effective connecting with fox news, calling into talk shows and chatting up the host of hannity and other shows on fox. Why are there rightleaning comedians . I do think it has to do with the issues ive raised in the conversation been having here but simply find there isnt an audience for its. I suppose one answer in his the audience is younger and college aged young adult audience doesnt have as many conservative and it as an older crowd. It may be we think about the time these things air and the extent to which people, lets say they are working shifts in the factory, they wont be up at midnight during the latest from Stephen Colbert even if they were interested. You catch it the next day, short but it might be another issue raised the third issue has to do with the nature of comedy, an extent that conservativism is protecting establishment values and culture, people who locks those things will not be well received. You can make jokes about religion if youre not religious. It becomes much more problematic if you are an intensely evangelical christian and they joke about that religion. If youre not religious, you can be more lasting. Conservatives, with their temptation to support order and authority more than girls do, it creates a barrier to successful comedy but as it relates, one of the ways to do this is yourself. Look at fox news humor and see whether you think they are funny or there should have been a market for it because there certainly wasnt. One close in my age, an example is i would suspect people using these shows, especially john oliver and john stuart daily show as a source of news as much as comedy. It is a dangerous reality. I think late night comedy might offer up the old phrase, spoon full of sugar helping the medicine go down. If you get a joke about Mitch Mcconnell you dont understand Mitch Mcconnell, what he stands for, maybe you learn a bit about politics. A joke about a Supreme Court appointment or healthcare, those things are only funny in the context of how much you already know about it so i do think, this is one of the things we see in Public Opinion data, the people who watch these shows find themselves more in news because they want to make sense of the jokes and be prepared for the jokes as they come along so there is that going on but there is another thing although we havent talked too much about the john oliver show yet, he does something very different, he has the equivalent of a deep dive, 15 minutes or so sometimes in the story that might not lend themselves to a one line, quick snap judgment joke of a monologue. If you spend 20 minutes talking about mail in ballots or any of these issues and respect of healthcare or money and politics, the things you look at, you might wonder how you can make it funny, but he finds away. It is an extraordinary talent but also an extraordinary ability because one of the things i noticed as a professor sometimes, my students sometimes struggle to get through some of the material they need to read to understand the issues of the day. What oliver can do is offer up to the audience, a significant audience, a chance to lick at an focus on the issue and present an opportunity to get a lighter interpretation on the news, but also an important one. I wouldnt encourage anyone to rely for the news on late night comedy, thats a distorted mirrored vision of the world but it makes sense, i think, to appreciate it for what it is and it could be a leading News Consumption indicator that would draw more people in to understand more about what is going on in this country. Another question with specific examples, what degree you think lipsynching the president , some of his mannerisms and behavior as well as jimmy fallon and Jimmy Kimmels focusing on trumps gas lighting and culture war census . Assuming the audience will not vote for the president s reelection. I sometimes wonder what comedy shows offer to people who do support the president. I think the occasional joke about Bernie Sanders is not going to cut it to make a trump supporter feel good about what is the gatling gun approach of late night comedy dealing with toms economy so i do think there is a dynamic and we are seeing that in who watches the shows. Conservatives are less interested, they spend less time with these shows than liberals do so i do think is a dynamic your that offers an audience not fully representative of the american electorate but i think its probably true for just about anything. If we talked about football saturday afternoons, is about to get started again, audience is not representative either. Think about people watching opera, that is not an audience. Entertainment television will never appeal to everyone so there is a dynamic but getting to the question, does this change the electorate i dont think that it does we are looking at an electric largely frozen in place. Look at trumps Approval Rating across four years of his presidency, its consistently low to mid 40s, never much lower never really much higher than that so it doesnt matter, you meet with the leader of north korea, approval numbers dont change. Unemployment goes down, numbers dont change. Covid habits, approval numbers dont change. The economy shuts down, stock market goes up and down, brutal numbers dont change so i think were looking at a situation in this country right now where trump support is ironclad and nothing much comedy content will win back and i think the people who disliked trump in the same way the people who like trump are frozen in the position. That is also true so if theres an electorate in the middle, the middle we talk about ideologically, moderate, im not sure there is more than a sliver of this country in that position and im not sure those people who, after four years of Trump Presidency have decided whether they like it or not, theyre not that many people in that position all that excited about voting. Youre talking about low information voters potentially in the ideological middle and those are not vehicles for maximizing voter turnout. A question from sarah thank you. More about wonder, which put all changes started as a joke . What are some of the most politically powerful jobs ever told, in a good way . That is a big question shou should. I think one of the things i would draw your attention to, i mentioned it briefly in the conversation but the joke attributed to Abraham Lincoln, he was called twofaced and the joke attributed to him was if i was really twofaced, but i be using this one . I think it speaks to the humility of politics, i think politicians who try to remind people we are a republic, president s and other political leaders come and go and we are not looking at people who are deities, they are not gods and they are ordinary people. John f. Kennedy also would make jokes. Ronald reagan, i think is probably the standard there. Shes famous for saying is hard work never killed anybody but i always say what take a chance . The idea that president s are ordinary people who can make jokes about their own narrative, one of the narratives about Ronald Reagan, he was particularly engaged as president so when you can make jokes like this about yourself, you send an effective message. Donald trump doesnt even try, i dont think, to do this. He doesnt appear at the white house Correspondents Dinner with so many comments have been made over the years and hes not willing to engage in anything other than back and forth and insult with saturday night live in terms of the way he is treated the so i do think that is a dynamic that is really important in our political system. It is important politicians do not think too highly of themselves and is also important we do not think too highly of them so i think the most effective political humor is not latenight comics but the president themselves reminding everyone, as well as themselves that this is pleading. Just a few more questions. Thank you. Considering the pandemic and other challenges facing washington, is there anything we can do to help students and faculty . It is important to recognize this is a very difficult time for Higher Education. We struggled to create a safe environment but the reality is the university is facing financial pressures as a result of increased costs of creating a safe environment, increasing resources we need to make and work effectively for the students so there have been cutbacks in various programs including programs that assist students. One of the things to remember for those people who are beyond college age years, how difficult it is for students to help the money they need to maximize the experience. One of the programs University Offers because washington is close to washington d. C. And northern virginia, a fund that allows for scholarship money to be used to help students with study abroad, internships in d. C. Think of a student of mine from a couple of years ago who got an internship rob whitman did but didnt have the money to pay for the commuter train in the area, trip up to capitol hill so he got a grant from the university to finance that program and that was a lifechanging experience for the student. He was head of republicans, very interested in paula politics and he is able to use the internship experience to work on campaigns and get himself a job on capitol hill working entirely for republican members of congress. These are the things are even small resources can have huge impacts because our students are generally middleclass students, sometimes workingclass students who are struggling with challenges of finding education but also taking advantage of the additional things the university can offer. In these tough times, the university is struggling sometimes to come up with resources to fund student undergraduate resource. One other thing, one of my professors over the last couple of years, was a National Resource conference the honor society. We have five washington students, the most weve ever had presented this national undergrad research, was held at George Washington university and they all had the chance to present their honors project so for the university, they paid for the trip up there it was a weekend conference so they stayed in a hotel and interacted with policymakers in washington and set up some ovens for them beyond the Research Conference itself so it was a wonderful expense for the students. Those things can really transform an experience for a student. One things i worry about is the extent to which those programs might be under more financial pressure in this difficult economic time. The state support has been cut significantly and donors might think were doing okay, we could be doing better particularly where these programs are concerned. With the up as a checkbox if anyone wants to learn more about that. There it is. Probably have time for just one more. Would you say the polarization of political opinions among students is it at all different . I do think todays students, i am talking primarily about Political Science majors because the students i see are almost entirely little science majors or students with a high level of interest in Political Science. There might be majors in a related field interested in the courses i offer. We do see is the students are more polarized than they have been across 20 some years ive been teaching at Mary Washington and elsewhere. I think it has to do with the fact that they are getting the wrong lessons from cable tv. Cable Television Talk shows often involve aggressive shouting matches combative conversations between left and right. Theyre not about generating light or insight, they are more generating heat. It makes sense, i suppose for the audience, if they want high ratings, i guess it works. One of the things i try to cultivate in my class students to get them to go beyond talking points and listen to each other, what is the argument you would make if you believed this . Have them look at those questions. One of the big challenges i asked my students, if you want to make the case for such and such an outcome regardless what you believe, with the best think he would say . Then they listen to each other and opened up the conversation in a more effective way because if im just going to be a moderator of crossfire in the classes, i dont think the students will learn much. I try to avoid that if at all possible. Over the semester, a lot of students get that. I think thats one of the advantages, where small enough if you scream at each other, he would have backlash in terms of your personal life, you cant just retreat in the anonymity of it. You see them at the dining hall, the gym, you would see them over and over so i do think the students are generally receptive to the idea that we are not trying to imitate latenight political crossfire shows you see on cable. Thank you. We are out of time and i would like to thank mark who helped facilitate tonights program thank you to our viewers at home for joining us for being part of the conversation. His presentation will be available for viewing umw Youtube Channel going tomorrow. You can watch this program and the full catalog of these talks. His continues october 14 with doctors miriam and holly who will present, the science of positive psychology. We look forward to seeing them then, if not earlier. Have a good night. Your current bestselling nonfiction books in washington d. C. Topping the list is his truth is marching on, historian john looks at the life of the late congressman john lewis. Followed by Pulitzer Prize author, exploration of the hidden system in the u. S. Bob woodward examines President Trumps national and Foreign Policy decisions. America must confront White Privilege in just us. Propping up a look at bestselling nonfiction books according to washington d. C. s politics and prose bookstores is, what can i do . Actors and activists advice on how to fight climate change. All of these authors have appeared on book tv and you can watch them online at booktv. Org. You are watching book tv on cspan2. Television for serious readers. We are live tomorrow 12 00 p. M. Eastern with Harvard University professor, joe. Our guest on the program, in depth to discuss popular and lesserknown stories from American History going back to the founding of the country. Tonight clinical journalist talks about his most recent collection of essays on American History, economics and culture. On our Interview Program afterwards, foxbusiness news host, lou dobbs offers his office on President Trumps agenda. A full Television Schedule at book tv to or consult your program guide. Heres a look at Publishing Industry news, former National Security council official who conducted the prepublication review of john boltons recent memoir on the time in the Trump Administration has claimed white house lawyers pressured her to make statements about the book. The review process by a political appointees for seeming political purpose. The Justice Department reviewed the claims and defended the review process. In recognition, the Library Association release their list of the 100 most challenged books over the past decade. The list is topped by the novel, the absolutely true diary of a parttime indian and also including harpers lease, to kill a mockingbird of mice and men of mice and men. The New York Times book review provided details on how it puts together its weekly was seller books. Fulltime staff of three people provides tens of thousands of stores and online retailers throughout the country to formulate rankings. Also, book sales increased 16 for the week ending september 19. Nonfiction sales rose close to 15 in Bob Woodwards latest book on President Trump. The National Portrait gallery has a collection of portraits of women writers including Toni Morrison and joyce, to name just a few. Exhibit is her story, a century of women writers and will be on display until january. It is available on the gallerys website. Book tv will continue to bring new programs and publishing news. You can watch all of our archived programs anytime at booktv. Org. Hello and welcome to virtual book event discussion. Presence populism in the crisis democracy, this event will air on cspan, book tv. My name is nancy, i am marketing director of the stores. Two bookstores in chicago and hyde park