Speakaries question, you can do so in either the chat or Comment Section of the live stream youre watching. The Commonwealth Club has suspended in person event but to keep you informed were going full speed ahead with a full sleighed slate of live online program. Mose conversations are free to the public so we ask you consider donating to the club to help us continue our work. Please visit us out Commonwealth Club. Org something or text donate to 415 3294231 during this program. You can find this information in the description becomes. Now, please join me in we canning shawnking and jane kim. I served as a supervisors here in the city and county of San Francisco, and most recently as the california and National Regional mit political director for sanders 202. And im mealed to be here today. Im so excited, shaun, what an incredible feat. Congratulations on writing your first book. Thank you. Only there are not too many things that scare me more than writing a book. And so i would love to talk but how it changed how to fight injustice, dismantle systemic oppression and own our future. Shaun will share a little bit about his journey and the book and as mentioned, if you have a question please put in the chat, and it will show up and we will reserve time at the end to have a discussion. Want to start with your bike right hear, folks can order it on the link that commonwealth put up and always encourage you to by it at an independent book store in your neighborhood. Her in the bay area we have a black owned book store in oakland. And we encourage you good there and buy the book and support people of color and black owned businesseses. Shaun i want to ask you but what the process was lick to write this book because i cant imagine anything more difficult than telling your own story. Yeah. Jane im glad to be here with you some so bummed. We had originally planned on doing this as a live event all the way back in may and my book was going to come out in april and i love the bay area and i think about moving out there all the time. I just such good energy. We would be so excited. I love the bay and so many of my closest friends there are and i was so looking forward to making the trip and in fact my wife, we have five kid all taken off work and taking off school and we were going to do that tour together. We had 30 different venues around the country, and i worked for almost a year writing the book, and for me i always have my hands in so many different campaigns and action and fighting for justice i was just about having the daily discipline of doing the research that i did for the book and then just writing daily every day for months on end, and ill never look at book on a shelf the same again because it was like a year of hard work, of its took almost as long to really edit and perfect the book as it did to write it and its a labor of love. It comes its not an autobiography. Hope one day to write a book that is just about my story, but its really about my philosophy of change, its a manifesto on how you can use your life to make change, and, jane, its really the book is really an answer to a question i got all over the country. I traveled from 2014 when he black lives Matter Movement began until right before the pandemic, i traveled to 47 different states, of course all over california, but as far north as alaska, as far west as hawaii and i travel to the deep south, the mississippi delta, south carolina, all but three states, and everywhere i would go, i would get one question and my become is an answer to that question. People would ask me from all political persuasions, all ages, want to know, shaun, im frustrated about injustice, im frustrated. About Police Brutality, how die actual i use my life to change that thing . And everywhere i would go, if i was speaking, walking on the streets, even as recently as told i get direct messages and emails, some version of that question, and theres a gap there of people being, like, really aware of what is wrong with the world, but not really clear on what exactly to do about it, and in the become im trying to close that gap. To show you here are some things you can do to use your life to make change, and change you and i know this it never just happens. You have to craft it. You have 0 hone it. You have to build it. You have to make it. And im trying to unpack what that actually means in the book. I thought you really articulated that well, in weaving that question or the answer to that question with your story, and in talking to young people who know that this is the pathway they want to pursue, im also constantly asked the question of how do i do it . I want to make a change. How do i do it . And when i was a youth organizer, the biggest lesson i learned, theres young people, youre like im never going to reach that young person, either because their too cool for school or superquiet, super shy, and i think one of the most beautiful parts of the organizing work was discovering that theres always every young person or every person wants to make a difference, every person wants to make positive in their community. Maybe its providing tool or shedding life on the pactway how to get there. School doesnt necessarily teach you that. I have this does as much education as most people. Im trying to do the math in my mind. I went to school for almost 20 years, and in all of that education there was never a place where people really unpacked here is how you change the world. And i even say why that is in the book. A lot of ways its because most of our institutions werent built to change the world, most of our institutions were built to maintain it, built to protect it, most of our even our favorite institutions, religious institutions and other organizations, even some of our favorite charities, even the nation residents leading political parties, they werent necessarily built for change. A lot of times they were built to protect the way things are and when you try to say i dont like the way things are and i want to change it to look like this, the whole system in some ways kind of conspires against youve being able to do that, and for years i did the things i thought would work to make change. I tell these stories. Really a failure to of us organizing, demonstrating, protesting and all of those things im glad we did. We werent wrong to do them but i learned a painful lesson after years of organizing, protesting, demonstrating, creating hash tags, trending topics, what i learn is that this country in particular, more than most countries in the world, is fully willing to be aware of our worst problems, be it Police Brutality, mass incarceration or climate change, wealth and income disparates where, our healthcare crisis and now nearly 50 Million People in the country dent halve Health Insurance right now, some estimates have the number even much higher if you count children and our country is fully willing to say i see that problem. Even im sorry for that problem. But then do nothing about it. So theres just this awareness but often people in power want to substitute awareness for action. And im afraid im seeing that even right now of even beloved political figures, the nation residents leading corporations and brands, saying, listen, black lives matter to us and then you ask them, well, how do black lives matter . Show us the policies youre fighting for, or even if its corporations, were starting to say, hey, if black lives matter to you, show us your board, show us your senior staff. Thats right. And so were starting to say, like, hey, thank you for your awareness. But we are asking and demanding more than awareness. He were looking for action and change and theres this big gap and im hoping to give people some clear steps on how they can fill that gap in their own lives. That was one of the kind of narrowness that i heard people approach black lives matter. When you focus on reforming the police, which honestly is the end of the road. Theres so many steps before that. Oh, yeah. So mean institutions that we need to reform. How we employ people, who we invest in, how our schools are run, who we elect, that the Police Almost became an easy scapegoat if we just reform the police, then well go to mecca in terms of the post racist country we all want to live in and that actually brings me to a question that one member on our audience asks. What do you say to young people who are discouraged by the nominees of both major parties being old white men . And yep. How do you think young people the rest of the question is, how do you think young people can engage with and demand to have a seat at that enable if we talk about that reform. Yeah. I have five children and my oldest are 18 and 20, and people are surprised when i say that because the dont think im hold enough to have a 20yearold but i was almost a kid when i started having kids so ive been a father literally my entire adult life hi and oldest two daughters who are both college students, 18 and 20, are severely disappointed at the political nominees for president. Obviously it they would never have supported donald trump bus theres real pain and disappointment because joe biden was literally on every poll by every measure the last preference of every major candidate for young people. They literally preferred about nine other people over him, and so theyre learning a hard lesson very quickly that me and you and every person who has ever voted before learned a long time ago, is its actually rare that you get to vote for somebody that youre crazy about. Its way more rare than i wish. And when you do get to vote for somebody, that looks like you, or comes from your community, or, better yet, actually shares your political philosophy, you have to cherish that moment and filing for that moment because for most im 40. For most of my adult life, i actually have never been enthusiastic about the people i had to vote for, for senate, for congress, for president , and young people who are voting for the first time are learning that a lot of times you have to be i dont know if the word is pragmatic but there is disappointment in the availability of candidates and politics theres been some can dids including bernie who have ignited the imaginations of young people, of dreaming about what could be and when you have a candidate who seems to not have an imagination, who is not so hopeful but what things how things could happen, its disappointing but you can check out of our democracy. I dont even quite think abi dont think donald trump and joe biden are comparable in their politics or even in their character. Nobody has been a bigger critic of joe biden and me. I dont that i would ever be invited or welcomed into a Joe Biden White house. Have written incredibly ab we have to work on that. [laughter] i have written deeply detailed christie dumb critiques of his role in building mass incarceration. Even with that, i understand that for people i fight for, donald trump is an accidental threat in a way that joe biden isnt. For me its one of the first times im going to be voting to oust a candidate versus voting for a candidate that im really excited about. Its difficult. But it is a part of american democracy. We were really close, obviously bernie won california and we all, you, me, so many thousands of volunteers and staffers worked our hearts out and i use bernie as a guide for me in some ways. My thing is, if he is able to pivot after such a disappointing loss and he gave more to this race then anybody from his own life and his own time, if hes able to pivot, i feel in some ways i even owe it to him to be able to find a way to pivot as well and not get stuck in my frustration. By the way, i want to acknowledge that question came from lynn on youtube. I have to say that i never thought i would run for office. I was reading your story about who you are that activists with a megaphone in the bathroom past. I was that activist in college. How was radical, i didnt believe in politicians. I always saw boating as a very disempowering exercise because i always thought it was voting between the lesser of the two. I was never excited about anyone i was voting for. Only as an organizer i got involved i started going to the local School Board Meeting and local City Council Meeting and started to realize the boston atomic and parking are elected represented to do is determine how to spell spend our dollars. We should have a seat at that table. A lot of my friends didnt understand but when i served on the board we did it had a 10 billion budget i would tell my friends. I work for a 10 billion foundation. My board isnt one wealthy individual or family, its everyone because everyone paid into that. Millions. Should be voting on the down ballots race because they are determining how to spend our money back into our community. That budget how much we pay Teachers Police officers, parks, streets, in which neighborhoods we invest them in, that budget is a document that reflects values and priorities its not just line numbers and so im always encouraging folks to think about down dollar if youre not excited about biden, Kamala Harris, thats actually the second question, start organizing for those local races because theres a lot happening in your community and grassroots law you are trying to do and activating folks in a variety of cities we know these Police Departments, its not the federal government or even the governor, i would love to hear a little bit more about grassroots and then i want to come back to the book. First you said something a few minutes ago about the goals and objectives even of the black lives Matter Movement that policing is just a fraction of what we are fighting for. It reminded me of when i first moved ive lived in california on two different occasions, i lived in Southern California twice for almost 5 years and when i first moved to california we moved to irvine and heres how we ended up at irvine, we never lived in california before and we literally googled safest cities in Southern California. Irvine that year, which i think was 2013, was actually listed as the safest city in america. When we moved out to irvine, ive been there three weeks and something dawned on me, i had never saw a police car, not parked on the road, not driving on the road, we are there for four weeks, five weeks, six weeks, i was there almost 8 weeks before i saw the first police car, mind you, this is in americas safest city so i literally asked a friend of mine, i saw the police car parked in the parking lot of the grocery store. I asked my friend, is there a Police Department in irvine . He said yes he took me and showed me the Police Department, the jail, it was tucked behind somewhere. Here irvine is the safest city in america, irvine is not safe because there are police everywhere, thats how they want to define safety for particular communities, irvine was the safest city in america because everybody had not only a job but a wellpaying job, everybody was covered with Health Insurance. I saw something that had irvine was like 99 insured. They had hospitals that were as beautiful as shopping malls, parks on every corner, all the schools were well resourced. Irvine was safe for very different metrics, it wasnt safe because it was over policed. It was safe because it was built to be safe it was built and fashioned and funded and supported in a way that safety was just part of the fabric of the town. It wasnt because there werent drugs in irvine, my daughter started ninth grade there the year we moved there the first day she got there she came home and she was alarmed, she had been homeschooled for six years she said kids all over the school were not only talking about drugs that they were giving drugs to each other, selling drugs to each other and when kids got caught with drugs at irvine their parents sent them to treatment. They didnt get arrested. They were treated as if they had Substance Abuse problems. It was a function of their privilege that instead of being arrested over and over again, kids in her school were given outpatient treatment, sometimes they werent even suspended from school. So all of a sudden you realize, this place was designed to be safe from the way they do their math, from the way they factor in safety so its very different in the black lives Matter Movement you mentioned budgets thats what dean informed the police is about. When we talk about defunding the police to translate for those who might be watching now or who might watch later when we say defund the police what we are saying is we just want to look at the police as budget, want to see in cities like los angeles where policing is now over 50 of the citys general fund to the tune of billions of dollars in subsidies. We are saying i think its a Smart Evolution of the black lives Matter Movement to say, if black lives matter, let me see it matter in your budget, let me see how black lives matter on the line items you mentioned and its important for us to understand as doctor king said, that budgets are moral documents. They show intention so if you love children, show me in your budget how you love children. Whatever it is you say you love, i was a christian pastor for many years and in the bible there is a scripture that says, where your treasure is, they are your heart will be also. In other words, your money shows where your heart is and what we are saying is, a budget sure shows you are priority. Right now in america, budgets show that cities value mass incarceration, they valued policing at all costs and you and i talked earlier when you actually ask the people what you prefer, thats not really what people want to be the highest priority they want to be safe but there is safety all around the World Without millions and millions of Police Officers. Theres a real path to doing it. In the grassroots law project what we are trying to do is organize people, just as you said, on the city level because as much as the president ial Campaign Matters and it does matter. 95 of all the people arrested are arrested through their local Police Department because of local laws and policies, processed through the local District Attorneys Office and the truth is, even when we have president obama in office there was very little that he did that trickle down to local Police Departments so when we are organizing our policing thats a local fight. We are doing it in the bay, there are cases we are taking on in the bay and cases we are working on all around the country we are working with the family of Breonna Taylor, the family of george floyd, ahmaud arbery. And shawn mott to rosa parks shawn who was shot and killed amidst protest for george floyd sean who was just 20 years old the very last text he sent his sister was a petition to sign for george floyd and police not only did they shoot and kill sean but theyve now lied about it, the District Attorney has refused themselves and we are saying, there still has to be justice and i wish the case can be tried in San Francisco, sean lived in San Francisco for a big chunk of his life and i think we could actually get some measure of justice if the case could be moved there but we will wait and see. For audience members that dont know, abhe was shot and killed by the vallejo Police Department in june. Through the windshield, they shot him through the windshield, he was kneeling on the ground hands up. Through their windshield, they didnt even get out of the car. They said he they claimed he had a gun but it turned out he had a hammer in his pocket and they didnt even give him a shot, this 22yearold never saw the next day. I can imagine anything more heartbreaking but i will say, the Vallejo City Council is a small elected body, this is a body we can influence, its more moderate but they need to hear from us, we have to attend these local City Council Meetings, theyre not sexy, theyre tedious. Thats where change happens. Thats where change happens. To go to grassroots law and the website to learn about how to engage because at the very local level we can make that difference. And people are running right now for Vallejo City Council. We have to hold folks accountable right now, while they are running for office. We have the Mayors Office open, the incumbent mayor not running for reelection. This is the time to really step up in that case. I want to go back to the book, you talked about this in your First Response how there is no natural or easy pathway for folks to make change. Theres no entry level job, get hired here and then becomes ceo. I think that often when i talk to young people they hear about my accompaniments, a resume social media is about all the things we won all weve accomplished anything that can be very intimidating for folks starting on the journey but what doesnt get talked about as much is the path to getting married and i always talk about how when i first graduated from college with my asianamerican studies and Political Science degree. I was really depressed. I didnt know what to do i didnt know i knew i wanted to make a difference but i was really lost you feel the passion, you know you want to do things, you see the injustice and you want to fight but you dont know exactly where or how to start. I think we dont talk enough about that but we talk about that in your book. The losses and the disappointments. And also the depression that many of us go through. I think when young people go through that they think they are the only ones. They see leaders like you want social media and they aspire to be used but they are like, i could never be shaun king im so depressed about where i yam i dont have the answers. What you say to young folks, they dont have to be young. Anybody to insert themselves to be that leader that advocate. I think everybody is struggling right now. First Lady Michelle obama did a recent episode on her podcast where she said she thought she was fighting through depression. She talked about how it was kind of environmental depression she said even the deaths of george floyd, Breonna Taylor, ahmaud arbery, the state of our country. It was the first time anybody had ever heard her say that and theres this expectation of, here she is one of the most famous woman in the world with access to power and privilege and wealth and in this moment still overwhelming her, the pandemic is hard, ive delivered nearly 50 different eulogies for families just over the past few months who lost their loved ones to the coronavirus. In my own neighborhood i live here in brooklyn im in my basement in brooklyn right now. You people who died on the block to the left of us, to the right of us, behind us, weve had business is close all around here. This is a very very painful year. Is a painful year for our country, even if you removed the pandemic this year would be hard but you put the pandemic on top of all of it, i understand how hard it is, how hard it feels. I tell the story in my book of most of what i have fought for in my life as an organizer. Ive lost or failed. Most candidates ive fought for have not won. Most of the families i fought for justice for did not get it. What wakes me up in the morning is two things, every new day a new family comes to me and they are not exhausted, they just now experience some type of injustice. In this country American Police kill three or four people a day. Every day almost every day one of those families constantly and even though i may be overwhelmed with all the struggles and challenges of fighting for justice, they are still grasping for straws and still need somebody to fight for them and it cant always be me, it has to be people locally it has three people in vallejo, in the bay, has to be people in new york or in atlanta or in the deep south fighting for ahmaud arbery. Some of it is i know that because we are fighting for is still here and still calling on us and still needing us but the flip of that is also true, the cause injustice is going to continue. What just Police Brutality but there are layers and layers of injustice in america and we could unpack it from many different angles. Sometimes when you are feeling down you dont have to pretend you dont feel that way, sometimes you need to take a break, sometimes, i have a therapist i see a therapist, my family, we have a family therapist. There are Free Services that provide counseling as well and if you are privileged enough to have Health Insurance, it often covers therapy as well. There are lots of things that we have to fight through the feelings of despair and then, lastly, ive had enough victories to know that victory is possible, the families we fought for that did get justice, just less than two months ago our team at the grassroots law project fought for a law in louisville called the Breonna Breonna taylors law that banned no knock warrants and it passed unanimously and level and its the most strict no knock warrant ban in the country nobody in louisville will ever drive Breonna Taylor died again and our team had a big garden that worked with the local law we work with the city counselors who wrote it and crafted it and we walked that thing all the way through. When you have those victories you have to celebrate them you have to hold onto them and cherish them. Sometimes you know as an organizer even most of the time as an organizer you wont always get what you are fighting for, sometimes you get closer, sometimes you move the needle but you dont always get what you are fighting for. Its worth the fight. Part of what ive also had to communicate to organizers and instead of saying young organizers i think of it more like as new organizers because you may be any age but you are new to seeing yourself as an organizer or an activist, sometimes what you do is loosen the lid on the jar. You dont even get it all the way off but you just loosen it a little bit and the next person may loosen it a little bit more and sometimes i just know that even my own efforts are just a small part of the bigger story and i just want people to know particularly people who are advancing systemic oppression or racism or bigotry i just dont want them to think they can get away with it in silence, that we are going to say nothing or do nothing, even if i know i cant change an issue, im to make sure that people who advance bigotry and hate and ugliness in this country, that they at least see us fighting back every chance we get. Ive run in six elections and i won three and i lost three like you i campaigned for a lot of folks that havent won although im really proud you were able to campaigned together for aband that we have them now as a criminal justice leader here in the city. I was really moved by something that actually my meditation teacher had taught me, or have said to me which was that you cant ever lose if you get up and keep fighting. Its not just resistance, its persistence. The persistence to never stop believing. Even if i lose this battle if i get up the next day to continue fighting i havent lost. Thats part of that work is that we have to keep getting up the next day because there are going to be a lot of losses. People always ask me, what made you want to go into Public Service . I would say its a really easy question to answer, who doesnt want to make positive change for their community . The much more difficult question to answer is why do you keep continued to do this work . Because its so disappointing, its difficult. Moralizing and the one thing ive had to learn to share space with, this is one of the questions that nancy on you to ask is, ive had to learn to sit with pain and to cry on a regular basis and know that part of what keeps me going every day to not lose touch with those emotions because they are hard. Nancy wanted to know how you maintain your commitments, energy, and motivation and i think we talked a little bit about that but i also want to stand on that because someone in your position a lot of leaders are pulled in 300 different directions, everyones asking for something. Everyone wants a piece of you. I have to say the one thing ive always been struck by you is your immense generosity in the moment of spending time with folks and listening to them and responding to everyone, thats very hard to do, a lot of folks in your position is hard and how do you maintain that . I think it has a lot to do with even not just how i was raised but even the arc of my life. Before i was an activist, an organizer i was i have a lot of roles that required me to be very present. I was a High School History and civics teacher. When youre a schoolteacher you are just on. There is no off switch. You just have to be present and you have to be committed for over three years after i left that position i taught for three years in atlantas jails and prisons, 13 different jails and prisons all over Metro Atlanta fulltime. That was a position where i had to be uber present and committed and look young people in the eye and they had to know like forgive my net language, like they could cbs from a mile away. These were young people who had been lied to and mistreated so i had to be there and be fully present and fully myself i was a pastor for almost 15 years and as a pastor i led families through their hardest days and sometimes their worst moments of loss, of death, i was there for them at high moments of birth and marriage and things like that as well but a huge part of what i did as a pastor was to just be a witness and be present with people when they experienced tremendous loss now as i travel as an organizer, as a leader, i lean on that history of being present, before the pandemic i would shake every hand, take every photo some of it was i knew that for a lot of people this might be the last time id ever get a chance to meet them or see them not to be morbid but even in my own life i know that tomorrow is not promised, even with safety risks and things i face on a daily basis, wherever i would go i would always try to treat like if that was the last place i spoke i wanted people to have had a good experience where they learn something and had a real human encounter with somebody they knew cared about them. I have a whole chapter in the book its the next of the last chapter about about selfcare, talk about some of the strategies i have for selfcare, healthy boundaries its taken me pretty much all 40 years my life to start developing a lot of those systems. I wasnt born with healthy habits, i didnt even have them for most of my 20s even in my 30s i hit a wall where i was just either completely exhausted or depleted or discouraged and in those moments im also grateful that i have people that love me, care for me, look out for me. Even if you dont have close family or friends unit you have to know when to unplug. Ive had to say this to activists and organizers everywhere, this feeling that the world or the cause cant do without you for a day or week or a month is its an exaggerated sense of selfimportance. There is no cause in the world thats gonna crumble if we are not there for a few days or a few weeks, sadly injustice is going to go on and whatever problem was there its still going to be there when you take time to care for yourself and return it sounds clichc but doing that work is very much a marathon. I turned my phone off at night. Late at night when i go upstairs tonight its almost 10 00 p. M. Here on the east coast when i go upstairs i will cut my phone all the way off and if anybody if its an emergency somebody will have to call my wife or somebody else but i dont look at the news, i dont watch the news and bad. I tried to just create disconnect so i can try to turn my mind off and try to get rest, rest is a huge part of it. I try not to work late into the night. I have cut off points that allow me to have boundaries. I dont work and eat at the same time. When i eat i just eat, i eat and talk i eat enjoy the food and my eat and look at something fun but i tried to get myself Little Pockets of respite throughout the day that allow me to decompress. I think often times those of us in Public Service view ourselves as murderers and what ive often seen, we are about the same age, not a lot of folks that i organize with in my 20s are still around now in our 40s. Same. That boundary is so important. These are all these things i used to make fun of eating while yoga even i didnt understand yoga and meditation now every year i do a seven day silent meditation retreat. You have to take that time off, it was scary the first time i did it, how can i plug dominic unplug for several days, will people survive without me . [laughter] day dam sure do, the world moves on without you. More importantly, i want to still be here 40 years from now. The long term im in it for the long term. I made a commitment even to my family, to my wife and kids and many of my heroes im grateful im friends with the children of doctor king, malcom x and others, these are women and men who whose dad died at age 39, i am 40 and ive done a lot of things that i never say out loud to even keep myself safe, ive made promises to both my wife and kids that i would try to be here for as long as possible that might sound strange to people but a lot of great leaders, even if they are not killed, they burn out in so many ways. Sometimes the work wears them down it can create incredibly unhealthy habits and other things that i tried my best to be as healthy and stable as i can. I want to be here too. That requires me to say no. Thats a Learned Behavior as well. I think for a lot of my young organizing life i said yes to everything and allowed myself to overcome it in ways i couldnt deliver to people even if i wanted to because i just said yes too much. I still want to be able to help as many people as possible but i have to be, i have to exercise wisdom in doing that work. You still say yes a lot but i will say a woman has become a coach or mentor to me told me just remember every time you say yes you are saying no to Something Else. If its hard for you to say no, just know that yes is often no to Something Else you are saying yes to one thing is often no to Something Else. Standing up, this comes up a lot in your book. Its hard. We were talking about budgets and how we invest our dollars, because we all pay into it every time we buy abwhen we have a job you buy a house, all those monies go into the paul. I remember in 2015 after Michael Brown and eric garner, one of my colleagues introduced to higher 300 more Police Officers, here in San Francisco each Police Officer is roughly about 170,000 per head. Benefits, training. Right. Not including all those other things. I remember to oppose it i was really scared about that because i knew i would get a lot of backlash from the constituents i represent. The only thing i could see that day is that the real question is, what is it take to make our cities safer . The question we talked about. Since were talking about 300 officers times 171,000 as an elected should be easy for me to commit to 300 Police Officers because i know i can do that but cannot promise to make the city safer . Thats a much more difficult commitment to make as an elective. I remember asking the question, what if we invested in 300 of our most at risk families and gave them 171,000 every year, would our city be safer . Yes. Of course after that i actually ran against this colleague in 2016 he put out mailers about how i dont believe in police and i actually said, the police dont prevent crime. They are there to address it. After School Programs prevent crime, theres other things to invest in. When you feel that for some that it becomes difficult to stand up. I will you havent been posting recently about Death Threats, not just against you, which is one thing, but your family too. From officers in california actually. On facebook crazy. How do you continue to stand up in the face of all the challenges and the fear mongering, the hate thats thrown at you . It is discouraging, i just want to be honest about it. When somebody, i get Death Threats almost every day. Normally they are anonymous and normally they seem like they are not real but designed to intimidate and frighten my family. This last incident though was of current officers and former retired officers that were in a Facebook Group for Police Officers in california who were using their real names, their Real Identities and were actually plotting on how they were going to cause harm to me and my family. They were talking about it openly they were joking they were dead serious, they were asking each other to email each other for steps and directions. When somebody in the group, an officer in the group was so alarmed that they told a friend with a new knew me, that person reached out to tell me that and normally i am pretty unflappable when i see these things but when i saw the screenshots i realized like, i think they actually mean this. I was in a weird position because, who would you call when you are being threatened by the police . You cant call the police. It put me in a position that i felt like i didnt necessarily have anywhere to go so i felt like i needed to share it publicly. My family was deeply discouraged. Right now we have security at our house. I have some level of safety and security in that sense but its very frustrating that fighting for change, fighting for justice, fighting for people then puts me and my family and others in harms way and ive said this, my wife and my mother, two of my biggest supporters but both of them have asked me multiple times like, shaun, could you find anything else to do . My wife jokes, she wants me to go back to being a teacher or, some reason she always asks if i would be a mailman. [laughter] i dont know why she chooses mailman as the profession she just wants me to do anything other than what im doing. I feel a sense of guilt that i dont pivot and stop because it puts my family in harms way so the work can be heavy and i dont want to deny that. Thankfully im surrounded with coworkers and colleagues, friends, families that i fight for and fight with im very close with them and all of them help keep me encouraged through it. Ultimately even my aba lot of the fighting i do and standing up i do i do with the hope that i can change and Impact Society for them so some of the work i do i dont want to use them as a scapegoat to say im just doing it for them but im hoping i can make this country a better safer more equitable place for them and families all over the country. Speaking of social media, jack on youtube asks, do you think social media has been more helpful or harmful to organizing . And what about politics in general . Thats a great question. I talk about it a lot in the book from cover to cover i think. By the way, i love that you use the book to talk about social media. [laughter] i think people who read the book are going to be super surprised because people know me as somebody who uses social media as a tool but i have seen the shortcomings of it. It does a couple things well, it allows people who otherwise may never know each other, who share similar affinities to then find each other in a way that otherwise might not be able to happen, in 1999 i was Student Government president at morehouse and we were organizing for young brother named amadou diablo who was shot and killed by the nypd, we couldnt find anybody else who cared. We were struggling. Was no twitter, there was no facebook. You had to put up flyers and hope somebody saw the flyer and came to the interest meeting and it was hard. Social media has changed that, social media its not just a place for people of good affinities to find one another, social media also allows people who are hateful, poor bigots, xenophobes, misogynistic. It allows all of them to find when mother and support one another as well. So while it can be this tool for good, i dont think you ever whatever had President Donald Trump without social media. I dont think any expert in the world. I agree with that. There is no path to him ever being president without twitter. I agree. In some ways he is twitters frankenstein. Hes the monster that social media created. Yet here we are also using social media to fight back against injustice to rally each other, to connect with one another so its not evil and its certainly not all good but what i see is, those who want to use it for evil, for good, it just depends on how much effort you get a put into it we often see that some people who are fighting for the worst things just use these tools really really well. The good news is that is we can find ways to use these tools in ways that matter as well, we cant always think that like its just destiny or just the way things are, anything that can be used to advance a horrible agenda, we can use those same tools to advance our dreams, our goals, and organize one another in ways that matter. Just as social media created president trump, social media also created black lives matter. Even for the donald trump and aoc, im struck travis history learning about the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights act of 1964 and the Immigration Rights act of 1965, yes, there were very good people who fought for that the lesserknown part of that history with the backdrop and how the u. S. And the ussr were fighting for the hearts and minds of asians and Latin Americans and africans. One of the things that really supported the ussr and communism in these third world countries was the invention of the television. It was when the tv came back for the first time asians and africans, Latin Americans saw white americans they would like i want to be like the americans they are racist capitalists. And actually countries in asia and latin america started closing there is to say my companies. It was when that started to happen that congress realized they had in optics issue. If you read the congressional records, there were good people fighting for the Civil Rights Act the immigration act but also people motivated by u. S. Companies have access to many markets as possible that pushed these acts because americas dominic america did not want to lose the cold war to communism. Knowing that history that the tv helped kind of accelerate the Civil Rights Movement same way the cell phone camera helped accelerate black lives matter for Police Brutality a to acknowledge Ab Technology has changed those things and impact of these things in a major way. I know im here because of the Civil Rights Movement. My parents came because the 1965 immigration act. We would not be here if not for the bodies of largely black rights and civil rights protesters that fought and so im a product of black history. It so important to understand the point in this lineage, i see that we have eight minutes remaining. I kinda want to get through as many of these questions. Theres a number of questions now. Tried to get as many questions as we can. A lot of questions today about bidens pick for Vice President. A lot of folks want to know how you feel about Vice PresidentKamala Harris. How folks, especially those in the movement, who have radical mentors who say its a step back. How do they participate. What you think about todays election, whats your advice for young people who feel like this is a step back. I understand it and im sympathetic with that perspective. Joe biden seemed to have narrowed his possible candidate list down to a few candidates in the final list i saw just right before we got on made me think that Kamala Harris was actually perhaps the best person on that shortlist. For everybody who is disappointed in it, its not a big encouraging thing to say, listen, it could have been Gretchen Whitmer who was the governor of michigan, who i have an active problem with. There is so many problems she has with her justice record as well. Could have been susan rice who has no overt elected experience and a deeply problematic record in international affairs. Theres a part of me that looks at Kamala Harris and says, i dont know, i think she was the best of his finalist. Ive said this publicly many times like, i have major beef with kamala record with District Attorney of San Francisco. I said i would give it a d may be. Ive examined that record i also say that you have to look at her record at the da and not judge it through a 2020 lens. Almost no prosecutors were doing brave work we see ab doing today in 2020, almost nobody was doing that in 2005 when she was District Attorney. I dont judge her through a 2020 rulebook. But what i have seen since she left office as da, even since she left office as attorney general, every year shes gotten better and better on issues of justice reform. That might be a bitter pill for people to swallow. I dont know her, i dont know her team. I say it as independent of a thinker as i can be. I heard her this year say that we should and qualified immunity and i heard her i said on social media earlier tonight that i dont think anybody in the u. S. Senate has said smarter things about the black lives Matter Movement and Police Reform this summer over these past three or four months, very frankly asked somebody whos been supercritical of her for years, i was really surprised at how sharp and sincere and refined her policies were and way more than joe biden, her policies and ideas were better than almost any elected official i saw. So people who dont want to give her another chance or think they wished it was karen bass or barbara lee or someone else from california that was more progressive, i get it. That was what i hoped as well. Its what most of us who are super progressive would have preferred. Still though, i think she is policy wise significantly better than almost anybody in the United StatesSenate Outside perhaps bernie may be. On some issues she is super sharp. Im going to give her a chance but im also still going to be a critic. Im not going to stop critiquing her on issues related to palestine or issues related to medicare for all. I dont even know that i will be endorsing her or joe biden. I will be critiquing them, i will be voting against trump and yet i understand people who take either side on that issue. Something you talked about earlier which is if you are not excited about this president ial race, still vote. Beginning at the down ballot level, find out whos running at school board, your local city council, your Public Transit agency board. Also, this is where we are building the pipeline for the next Bernie Sanders and aoc. Aoc is a huge exception, so is trump for that matter, but many folks start at the very local level and this work is going to be the work of those of you in the bay area we have moms for housing cofounder carol a running for oakland city council. Affordable housing and advocates, lacey amadeus, alicia claytor, abwe have cheryl babylon running for berkeley city council. We have 50 50 for simon running for president. Get involved in those races, lets build the pipeline we have to continue to support. One of our biggest concerns is that if biden wins, which i also hope so too, that we all kind of sit back like, all right, we dont have to organize anymore and in some ways trump the beauty or the advantage of trump is that we all got organized. Because we couldnt step back. For those of you that arent excited about biden, kamala, the fight doesnt end on november 3. We have to hold them accountable to the agenda that we care about and remove them. If they do win, therell be a new u. S. Senator in california, theres an opportunity for us to fight for someone valiant and progressive that really represents the New California in that seat. There are, you said it, there are brilliant people running for office all over the country. Even though im not over the top excited about this, i am excited about people who are running for office all over the bay, all over california, right here in new york where i am. Im not unplugging. Even as you and i campaigned, you work for bernie we campaign for bernie, im still disappointed. Im still disappointed over 2016. I dont get over those losses very easily. Even with that i just refuse to completely unplug from it all. The moment is too important and i never want to look back on this time, which i think 2020 is one of the most difficult years in the modern history of the world. I dont want to look back on this year and say, i wish i really had been more bold. I wish i had done more. I said some kind things about kamala earlier on social media, there was a lot of progressives and others who were frustrated about it. I have to say what i feel, i have to say what im thinking. We cant be so blinded sometimes by our political philosophy or worldview. I want you to have an established worldview that causes you to miss an opportunity to see something that could be good. For me i am still excited that a woman could be Vice President. Im still excited that a black woman could be Vice President. Asian american woman. And its not nothing. We often fight against identity, politics alone because for us philosophy matters, politics matter but its very exciting to see a woman who comes from two immigrant parents be able to grow and thrive and lead and be nominated for Vice President , she is also the first Vice President nominee in the democratic party, i think i saw, ever from california. There had never been a nominee for Vice President from california. There are things to be excited about all of our nerves are frayed and everybody is super frustrated in general. It can cause you to even miss a moment that means something. Either people think it symbolic, i think the nomination matters. I am hoping joe biden is about as moderate as democrat could be. Im hoping her policies and positions make him better and bring him left. Even if people arent supercharged about her, theres a lot still worth celebrating i think. One of the reasons why i joined bernie 2020 year ago was because i knew bernie was a winner whether he won the nomination or not and we saw at every debate the agenda that he had put forward which is our agenda dominated the Big Questions every question was on medicare for all and eliminating student debt and free college. As a progressive activists it was really amazing to hear these questions get asked in 2020 because you wouldve never thought about asking these questions in 2008 or 2016 we have to keep fighting because whether the candidate that we get to select is that progressive solid or not we can change conditions around that candidate. Hopefully we can make biden one of the most progressive president weve had in this country because of the conditions that we put in place. And giving him that mandate. To lead in that way and i agree with you, as someone who supported the democratic nomination i did say one of the most empowering things for me was to actually watch the today and see women see andrew young up on that stage, actually i wasnt expecting it. We were at the same Debate Watch Party and it was my first time seeing andrew on broadcast tv. I got emotional. Hes not my candidate. It matters. For me its not that it had to be a person of color or women i supported but as a woman of color to have the choice that i could pick a woman that i could pick a person of color i pick a person that i identified with in terms of my because the fact that i could have chosen Kamala Harris and andrew yang was incredibly important to me too. I think we have to continue to fight for that and now we have run out of time. Its an tradition to ask all the speakers the following questions, whats your 62nd idea to change the world. Wow. Thats a great question. I did not know that was a question or i wouldve prepared a perfect 62nd answer. I will start here. Changing the world begins with the decision and that decision is you choosing the cause you want to impact the most when i say the word leaders most people think of elected officials but when you look at the most effective leaders, and there are normally not elected officials. The most effective leaders in the world have put their foot down on a very specific cause and might be the environment, from the Police Brutality and mass incarceration might be womens issues, im here at my house, my wife has chosen childhood literacy but until you decide like this is the thing im going to use my life my time my skills my resources my network my money, this is the thing that im going to fight for, to fight against, youll just be floating above the surface of a lot of issues i will close with this thought. To me the greatest evidence of the reality that you have chosen a cause to fight for is not when you tell me what that cause is its if i ask your friends if i ask your family, if i asked the people around you, what is her calls are what his cause. You could tell me, ive chosen this or that but when you really chosen it everybody around you will know, your friends, your coworkers your colleagues your neighbors because you will be fighting for it with everything in you, with every ounce and every fiber of your being so i encourage everybody who sees this now or later, live life on purpose, choose a cause, choose an issue and just drill down deeply, the world really needs specialists who will fight until they see change in that issue. Thank you shaun, i just want to say in my years of watching you i have been incredibly struck both by your tenacity and your generosity so thank you, we need many more shaun king is in this world. Make change, go to your local bookstore, support your community. You can go to amazon but think about how we use our dollars to grow the world we want to see. And so, i really appreciate we have this larger and wider audience in some ways that conjoint and because programming is online. Think we have another event after this one. At shawn king on twitter. And on instagram. [inaudible] in San Francisco thanks so much for having both of us. I cant wait to welcome you and your family back to the bay. In the work continues thank you overmuch for attending this night. Thank you to carapace macbook tv continues now on cspan2. Television for serious readers. Cement good evening welcome to tonights Virtual Program for theyll be discussing faking the truth of the true impact of the atomic bomb. We are mentally honored to host tonights speakers author of the new book the fall out will be joining conversation by writer. My name is bo and i am the manager of wish we could welcome you to our