Transcripts For CSPAN2 House Ways And Means Subcommittee Hearing On COVID Tax Legislation Inaction 20240712

Remote hearings certainly arent the same as sitting together in our Committee Room but this new authority has allowed us to continue to do our work on behalf of the American Peoples while keeping our staff, family and broader communities safe. This is the second official virtual subcommittee hearing in the ways and means committee. As with our previous hearing i want members to know i plan to continue this committees long tradition of collegiality and substantive debates. Even as we conduct our business from afar i will continue to work with our Ranking Member and his staff so to ensure that the rights of all members are respected in this new virtual format. Before we turn to todays important topic i want to remind members of a few procedures to help you navigate this new platform. First, consistent with regulations the committee will keep microphones muted to limit background noise. Members are responsible for on meeting themselves when they seek recognition or when recognized for their five minutes. Members and witnesses must have their cameras on at all times. If you need, for any reason, to step away from the preceding please leave your camera on rather than logging out. Finally, we have several members who are waiting for the subcommittee and i will recognize subcommittee members on a bipartisan basis in order of seniority followed by off subcommittee members in order for seniority for questioning our witnesses. I thank you all for your continued patience as we navigate this technology in order to continue serving our country together in this great time of need. With that, i will now turn the important topic of todays hearing and the consequences of inaction on covid tax legislation. Federal tax measures from the cares act and the Families First corner virus response act played a critically Important Role in sustaining workers and families during the covid19 pandemic. The Economic Impact payments and the Employee Retention tax credit for the supplemental federal Insurance Benefits help millions of family whether this years economic catastrophe. Over the course of a few weeks this spring more than 21 million jobs have evaporated and millions more were scaled back to fewer hours and less pay. Work dried up and almost overnight we went from the lowest on appointment rate in 50 years to the highest on appointment rate since the Great Depression. From one end of the country to the other people found themselves with no paychecks in the middle of a public crisis and hitting the pavement to find a new job was not only risky but mostly futile because the jobs just werent there. In february there were eight on appointment workers for every ten available jobs. In april there were 46 on employee workers for every ten available jobs. People need help quickly and i am proud of how are our congress and the administration stepped up. We did our jobs. The eips and the Employee Retention tax credit played an indispensable role in helping americans make it through the deepest economic catastrophe of our lives. They help families feed their kids. They help keep a roof over tens of millions of citizens heads and they help americans continue to pay their bills while they were unable to work. Finally, the Job Retention credit helped people hold on to their Health Insurance for a global pandemic. At the time we disagreed or at the time we designed these measures we didnt know for sure how deep this recession would be or how long it would last. It was a lot of optimism about the reshape recovery that would quickly bounce back with previous high implement levels and steady growth. We know now that those hopes were overly optimistic instead of a vshaped recovery we are seeing ak shaped recovery with some sectors and groups recovering fast and others forced to wait while getting worse off day by day. 94 of the jobs in Financial Services are back but millions of people and hospitality, retail, manufacturing and food Service Still have no work. People of color, women and workers with less education are experienced and much slower recovery than others. It is been six months since epidemic struck the u. S. In earnest and in six weeks since they expanded on appointment benefits last and millions of families have entrusted or have exhausted their savings and their eips for necessities, food and housing utilities, Health Insurance and car payments. It is painfully clear that millions continue to struggle in the hole therein is getting deeper by the day. According to census data for july 13 million adults did not pay their rent. 29 million adults, sometimes often did not have enough to eat over the past week and one in three kids did not get enough to eat because the household cannot afford it. Think about that. One in three kids not getting enough to be because their families cant afford to feed them. The economy was broken earlier this year when we took extraordinary measures to try to protect families during the crisis. Millions of families and millions of children are still in crisis. That is why the house passed the heroes act on may 15 and approving a second round of eips and other support for struggling families and for four months the center has done nothing to help the families. Todays hearing will examine the reallife consequences of this in action and with that i will recognize the Ranking Member, mr. Smith of nebraska, for the purpose of an opening statement. Mr. Smith. Thank you for calling todays to complete the next round of covid legislation. Before we begin i would like to take a moment to join you in acknowledging the attacks that took place in new york city, pennsylvania and in washington dc 19 years ago today. We came together as a nation then just as Many Americans have come together now to support their neighbors during this current pandemic. Todays hearing provides a great opportunity to reflect on areas where we agree and also to assess how much the speaker its my way or the highway approach that is failing america. Republicans stand ready to work on yet another covid release package and we hope the democrats shared this call. Sadly, throughout the pandemic House Democrat leaders [inaudible] as recently as yesterday we saw targeted relief package wouldve given our children and Small Businesses in healthcare workers held uncertainty they need to sleep. Lets be clear, any package that makes it to the president s desk must be bipartisan and Senate Republican bill with a chance for democrats to combat and over here on the house though we have only one proposal from the majority and that heroes act makes no attempt at being bipartisan and stands no chance by becoming lost. Part of the reason why is because the bill failed the first litmus test lawmakers when we write a relief package and our first question should be what measures will be most effected in helping america safely returned to work and school. It is not suddenly how will we spend 3 trillion as a speaker has proposed. This is the question rebellions are focused on finding today. I also want to thank our witnesses for being here today to help us find an answer. You will hear from the administrator about the increase and proven security in the past six months and prior to the pandemic we were making progress on increasing Food Security across this country. Earlier this week we reported that Food Insecurity was at its lowest level in over the decades in 2019. It was helped by the Strong Economy and helped by the tax rate of the tory. Mark and act producers are the most efficient in the world and stand ready to feed their neighbors now and in the future. [inaudible] republicans agree we can and should do more with delicious foods during this difficult time. They will be sharing with us for stories because of the pandemic receiving Employment Benefits and finding new jobs. We share the view that Small Business back home and even democrat governors that we need to shortterm unappointed payment created as part of the cares acts we can reconnect the employed with job creators who still have pain jobs to offer. Doctor stevenson can remarked on highlighting the impotence of our efforts to maintain connection between employee and employers. The mayor will highlight for us how challenges created by pandemic and i appreciate the president and his ministry taking this section on these issues. This was needed action but we also know the housing situation is much more calm brands of solution and while housing is not in the committees jurisdiction any policy we passed needs to be bipartisan and helping folks in need. Any evictions alone does not address underlining [inaudible] that his mortgage payments which the landlords must still pay and the threat of our economy no one finally, we will hear from steps we can take to help employers face the reopening and keep employees on the payroll, including the tax credit and providing assistance with clean and social distancing. We need to address the challenges before us today and we need to plan for the future so that if a pandemic hits we are prepared. Already, we are experiencing one of the fastest economic recoveries on record and theyre still progress and needs to be made we are not yet out of the pandemic. We cannot secure shortterm or longterm growth for our workers unless we Work Together in a publicans and Democrats Congress and the white house for a solution. Republicans here today are ready to engage in mr. Chairman, we ask that you and House Democrat leaders choose to work with us so that we can get our families and Small Businesses that help and certainty they need. Thank you, i yield back. Thank you, mr. Smith. Without objections all members Opening Statements will be part of the record. I want to thank our witnesses who have joined us today and we have a distinguished group of individuals who have taken time to come and meet with us and give us a firsthand understanding of what is happening on the ground. First, doctor Betsey Stevenson is a respected economist who will help us understand the condition of the labor market now during the pandemic and the Important Role of extending the heroes tax relief measures will play in our economy. The former mayor of new orleans and the current president and ceo of the National Urban league. He will testify about housing and security arising as a result of the pandemic and how low income families and people of color are disproportionately experiencing housing and security as result of the pandemic and the recession. We all know tom as the chief judge of top chef and the owner of several prominent restauran restaurants. He is also the longtime activists on Food Security and childhood nutrition. He will testify on how the covid19 pandemic has exacerbated longstanding issues with hunger in america. He is the single mom living with her two younger children in winston salem, north carolina. Until the pandemic, ms. Long had been working in manufacturing jobs her entire adult life. Then she was laid off due to covid19. The economic stimulus payments for federal tax refund in the federal supplemental unappointed benefits helped tied her family over through the worst of the pandemic. She is starting a new job this week. Your statements will be made part of the record in its entirety. I ask you summarize your testimony in five minutes or less. To help you with that time please keep in mind on the clock there should already be pinned onto your screen. If you go over your time i will notify you with a tap of the gavel or the yellow pen and doctor stevenson, im going to ask you to begin and you may proceed. Thank you chairman thomas as Ranking Members. Before you do i ask unanimous consent for doctor stevensons corrected testimony be entered into the record. The changes came last night and theyve been reviewed and they are only a typo in spelling changes. Theres no content change so without objections we will give the order and you may proceed. Thank you chairman thompson and Ranking Member smith for the opportunity to appear today. I want to begin by coming to you on the Action Congress took in march that passing be rebuilt provided tax provision to support American Families and businesses. The policies enacted in the cares act were just that, timely provisions that allow people to pay for other essential items. The families that sufferedand continue to suffer the steepest declines in income are among the least prepared to fill in for lost income. This was a free fall and spending in the spring yet thanks to your efforts Household Incomes rose in april and sales rose strongly in may. For the worst of the pandemic was not over in may and isnot yet over fiscal policy meant the worst of the downturn was. In a normal recession might take the growth in jobs since april as a sign we areon the right. You would be mistaken to make that inference now. The growth in sales requested returned to jobs that had not been lost and the Public Health knowledge that is allowing some businesses to successfullyreopen despite ongoing pandemic. Again its directly because of your efforts last spring. I urge you to focus not on the changes that the levels of our current situation. 13. 5 Million People unemployed, 11 million jobs lost in 30 Million People receiving some form of unemployment insurance. These numbers make it clear theres a staggering ongoing shortage of jobs, our customers. I want to assure you weve done the easy part at this point and thats why its been so quick. We put people back in the jobs they already have. Our current path of jobs gains will not continue if needed slowing. We are simultaneously inducing businesses trying to reopen safely and bringing employees back to work or utilizing there is simply not enough demand in our current environment to maintain payroll. We lost roughly 400,000 businesses that hemorrhaging ofbusinesses has not stopped. Underneath the return to work theres been growing permanent job loss. From job losses harder to reverse and a temporary layoff. Without further action American Families will continue to suffer and the rest of the recovery will take years to complete and its possible we will not return to our prepandemic potential trajectory for decades. The euro back has many important provisions that would play an essential role in preventing extreme hardship among American Families and stabilizing the economy and putting us on a path to greater prosperity. Im happy to answer questions about specific provisions but let me say i urge you to pass the provisions in the heroes that support families, children and work but let me talk about the need for expansion of the Child Tax Credit. As a society weve yet to fully grapple with the harm that server to our children from this pandemic. As a mother i can tell you the disruption is setting back both our knowledge and social emotional learning. While the parents of privileged children have access to resources to support their Childrens Development children from less privileged areas are suffering from the loss of normal play and socialization , loss of formal education, lower Household Incomes and stress in their communities. How do parents work when they cannot send their children to school . How do they educate their children when they must work . How can they use resources to help their children thrive educationally and emotionally when theyre struggling to put food on the table . Extending resources for children in the bottom half of distribution is essential. A fully refundable Child Tax Credit is one of the single best thing a nation can do to confront poverty and confronting Child Poverty is one of the important waysyou can grow the economy. Failing to address the harm to American Children from the pandemic will mean the economy may never fully recover and these children will suffer a lifetime of loss is to them, their loss is our loss. There are two important things we must confront and the first is what i mentioned, a risk to their children and the second is a growing group of displaced workers. Labor force participation which fell to a low in the early 70s has only recovered to a low in the 70s. Furthermore weare seeing also a permanent job loss. Were seeing longterm unemployment. Many of the tax credits in the heroes enjoy uniform bipartisan support for the simple reason that they work. During the lifetime of rising debt, the effectiveness of policy must be considered in expanding policies that support work families and children have the potential to read recurrence to taxpayers in the long run that offset their costs. I urge you to take action today. Thank you for your time. Thank you doctorstevenson. Ill now recognize mister morreale or his statement. That afternoon chairman thompson, Ranking Member smith and members of the committee my name is Mark Morreale and im proud to Service President and ceo of the National Urban league. Where a nonprofit islamic Civil Rights Organization dedicated to the economic americans and other underserved urban populations. We could not connect to 90 officially affiliate through the district of columbia and our washington bureau. We are a leading Housing Counseling Agency approved by the United States department of housing and urban development. We operate housing programs in more than 30 of our urban League Affiliates and since 2008 we serviced over 3000 thousand clients so we bring to this conversation we are on the ground experience working with men, women and families are facing a crisis of covid head on. In his Pulitzer Prize winning book Matthew Desmond quotes a woman he calls arlene. She describes a profound exhaustion of trying to keep a roof over her childrens head. He says my soul is messed up and her children are so defined by the experience of being constantly effected one of them files to become a carpenter so he can do over a house. A moratorium on infections imposed by the federal care in march expired in july. As we participate in todays hearing, some 40 million americans equivalent to the entire population of the state of california are on the brinkof infection. There are more than 13. 6 million americans out of work. More than any other points since the Great Depression. And although the labor market does appear to be climbingout of the hole , lack and latino workers are experiencing disproportionate economic challenges. 13 percent unemployment for black workers. 10 percent for latino workers compared to wife Unemployment Rate of 7. 3 percent. No matter how you cut it, the Unemployment Rate is far higher or all population groups far earlier this year. Not only that, black and latino workers are more likely to be employed in lowwage jobs which are far less likely to offer remote work options, paid leave and health Insurance Benefits. Lowwage workers with limited or no savings face the hardest challenges in this economy. With a nation dealing with the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression and employment plunging further 43 million americans either missed their july rent or mortgage payments and had little confidence that they could pay august on time. This is certainly worse than black and latino workers. The risk of loss of Home Ownership especially black homeownership is more troubling. The Great Recession wiped out 50 years of rising black homeownership with a rate now has low as it was between the Fair Housing Act passed in which housing discrimination was legal. The rate acrossthe board is as low as its been in decades. This compounding problem of people facing infection and facing foreclosures is something that could devastate this nation. If we look to the future, if we look to the future we face a future where the housing crisis of the 21st century, the housing crisis of the 20 20 has worked the housing crisis that went along with the Great Recession. Theres work that must be done to protect americans and to save america. Black and latino households for the racial divide across access and homeownership rates preceded the current economic fallout face the most severe challenges that we face. I want to talk a little bit about solutions but i comment this as a former mayor of new orleans, armor president of the us conference of mayors and a lawyer who practiced law in construction and housing as well as the current president of the National Urban league. Congress has to address the infection crisis and the foreclosure crisis. With tens of millions of people facing the loss of their homes and unemployment, underemployment, black equity and a recession. We call on congress and the United States senate particularly to pass and the president to sign the provisions of the heroes act. We need the bold, we need a robust provision. A robust act. That acts is the heroes act that pays 100 million in emergency rental assistance so we also call for the expansion across the board all of the tax credits including the heroes act to put working men and women first. Thank you very much. Iq mayor. Mister colegio, you may proceed. You have to unmute, tom. Thank you chairman tom thompson and Ranking Member smith for inviting me to speaktoday. You may know me as a chef and the restaurant tour and had judge on top chef. Im also father to three boys and citizens who care deeply about relations a category would all fall into whether republican or democrat or red state or blue and i served as executive producer on plate to table, a documentary film directed by my wife which opened my eyes to truths about hunger in theUnited States. I would hunger in this country is a widespread manmade problem and we have more than enough food to treat everyone healthy and well that our leaders have failed to undertake a policy that will make that possible. Once i learned that those with its my mission to change them and its in that capacity i sit here today so in order to respond to the pandemic its important to understand exactly where the nation was before hand. Before covid19 while some in the administration were trumpeting about our economy the United States had 37 Million People struggling with hunger and 37 Million People. Before covid19 children went without sufficient calories to power them through a day of learning or growing area despite data showing that poor nutrition during a childs earliest years in the cellular deficits and illness through her lifespan. 38 million americans relied upon nutrition assistance programs for snap to feed theirfamilies. Average snap benefits amount to a major dollar . 34 for meal and before covid19, our nation shamefully and uniquely among wealthy economies allowed states to erect bureaucratic load roadblocks to receiving Food Assistance even fingerprinting as if to add a layer of difficulty. Even prior to covid19 is not uncommon to have americans lining up at a 24 Hour Convenience for at 11 50 9 pm with their babies and children in tow waiting for midnight with their cards to bereplaced so they could buy something to feed their children for breakfast the next morning. Some may witness and say what parent brings their toddler to a 7eleven at midnight and i say what parent sleeps well at nightknowing another parents must resort to that . What kind of leaders your after year the Food Assistance at such low numbers that any child must suffer hunger and Lifelong Medical and psychological consequences. For decades we foisted this program on to food banks and charities. Hunger in this country with charity food is like putting out a forest fire with a bucket brigade. But whats actually needed was food and waste policy for the whole family to afford the cost of healthy food and an adequately funded safety nets those people need a helpinghand. Our leaders have other priorities clearlywhich is why children have to go hungry and member as our stock more has sort. Since the pandemic has hit million unemployed almost overnight. We now have millions more newly poor and hungry. According to hunger free america hunger has doubled during the pandemic. The Food Research Action Center reports 20 percent of all households with children one in five are now facing under and 40 percent of americansreport cutting back or skipping their own meals to feed their children. Millions of seniors have lost access to meals they received at Senior Centers and cant afford to stop at groceries. Today the image of cars and milelong lines snaking along our freeways to pick up charity food. The Salvation Army reports drive through panties have seen an 84 percent increase since may. 84 percent. But that tells us in the United States that you can go from being someone who helps out the food pantryto someone who needs one in a matter of weeks. Recently i felt senator john cornyn of texas to the food bank and he got a call for donations same texas food banks need our help and its admirable the center senator would go and spend time at food banks but lets get this straight area in the midst of a historic hunger crisis senator corrinealong with Mitch Mcconnell has failed to pass the heroes act. In may that would have meaningfully address hunger at several levels. Now hes calling upon Everyday Americans to make up for the senate in action. Both senator cornyn its not the food banks that need help. Its the people that serve them and helping the people of this country is your job. Its actually congresss job. Mitch mcconnell has also, i see my time isrunning out. Ladies and gentlemen of the subcommittee lets put our money where our mouth is we can fix this problem. One point i want to make is our colleagues, your colleagues jim mcgovern said that making sure people have enough to eat and food to survive as a priority, then what is . Thank you. Thank you mister colicchio. Miss long you mayproceed. Can you hear me. Yes we can Ranking Member smith and members of this committee my name is nikita long and i reside in winstonsalem. Winstonsalem is one of the richest cities in the country. It has its share of poverty, low income jobs, prime as you any city. Before the pandemic i was contractor for Automotive Parts manufacturer area wages were not bad and ill would work for the needs of my family. I worked there two years waiting to get hired there was always a reason why the company had to hire fulltime employees. I have no savings. My credit was in a downward spiral in my dreams of buying a big house would have to wait. I never work a job picking over 30,000 a year. And i had, i have a masters degree. I do not have a criminal record and yet still i face many obstacles. I spent my life trying to break down this to medically oppressive walls for myself and for so many others acing similar barriers. Manufacturing jobs were easy to get, quick hiring prices and alltime overtime offset wages. I worked night shifts and weekend shifts because i had a family and everybody was asleep so that was a good hour for me. I got the kids ready for school and i headed off to College Classes read when i saw opportunity for a job with better wages i jumped on but the tradeoff was heavy metal jobs and long hours. Like millions of americans covid19 yielded a heavy financial blow to my family. The initial response was chaotic, divisive and forced so many families to take on challenges most were not physically or mentally able to handle. I was laid off from my temporary job in late march 2020 ,. Devastated i went into survival mode thinking what could i sell that would cut back and keep my family afloat. Like millions of families i waited to see if there would be any Financial Relief for people who had lost their jobs. A lifeline, he cares allow me to apply and receive Unemployment Compensation and i was approved for the federal unemployment boost. This was a lifesaver and an ocean of uncertainty and with this additional financial help i received 823 weekly and i can keep my family safe and now we would comply with stayathome mandates. I could afford my rent, car payment and to pay my bill. I was just offered a job at amazon and im happy. Im employed im still concerned about bills and potentially exposing myself and my family to the virus. Millions are still unemployed, millions are fruitlessly watching the clock and waiting for eviction to sweep the nation. Millions are living in unsafe environments. Millions are shutting down mentally because theyre worried about what the future holds. As you close out the day and discussed strategies for helping families due to tax code and my testimony becomes a reflection in your mirror consider my story retold over 30 million times. Those are the voices of families, of individuals living in unsafe housing conditions. I am facing eviction. My landlord offered me 500 to move out by october 1 because they need to sell the home. Theres so muchuncertainty for my family and i ask that you consider me when you make your decision. Miss long, thank you for sharing your testimony with us. Your situation with us and i appreciate your courage in doing so. Mister brill, you are recognize. Thank you chairman thompson. Ranking member smith and members of the subcommittee. My name is alex brill and im a resident fellow at the American Enterprise institute and i appreciate the opportunity to testify on this important topic. As others have noted the coronavirus pandemic and associated economic recession have been severe. The Unemployment Rate biked more than 11 Percentage Points from a historic low of 3. 5 percent in february to 14. 7 percent in april and was 8. 4 percent in august. Economy contracted rapidly in the Second Quarter while the rebound is underway, the full recovery will take time. In march as others have described congress enacted the cares asked along with other measures before and since then have provided largescale relief and assistance to both families and businesses. Congress has also considered additional policy measures including federal tax relief. To mitigate the economic consequences of the pandemic. Today id like to emphasize that further action is appropriate. But also needed to ensure that any additional policies are all targeted, welldesignedand efficient. In my button testimony i recommend five specific tax policies that would help unemployed workers return to work. Improve the safety of the workplace and facilitate the continuity of Health Benefits for laidoff workers. Three of these policies are already included in the house euros act. The rtc expanding the employer retention tax credits, the expansion of the child independent tax care credit and premium assistance to cover the cost associated with cobra premiums. The other policies that i recommend in my written testimony included healthy workplace tax credits and a temporary extension of the work opportunity tax credit. The written testimony describes these policies in more detail and suggests modifications to better target them. In the interest of time ill discuss here Employee Retention tax credit and healthy workplace tax credit. The rtc was established in the cares asked to encourage businesses to retain workers through the pandemic. The current the rtc which is available to qualified businesses for the remainder of the year is a refundable tax credit of 5000 per worker ineligible for. Many other developed countries have adopted similar policies with Great Success by subsidizing on a temporary basis the cost of keeping workers on payroll during the pandemic, a wellfunctioning rtc has the potential to significantly assist the us labor market. I recommend expanding the rtc to more businesses but not extending the definition of qualifiedworkers. I recommend that september 1 Effective Date for the expanded policyand increasing the wage gaps. These modifications reduce overall costs and increase the policies efficiency and effectiveness. The healthy workplace tax credit introduced by, rights of 50 percent credit is refundable against payroll taxes is intended to encourage businesses to provide testing, reconfigure workspaces, acquire ppe and take other Safety Measures had a credit would encourage wider adoption of Public Health and Safety Measures and reduce the risk of transmission. In my written testimony i also address several provisions which should not be enacted namely a second round of rebate payments, the elimination of the state and local deductions and expanded Child Tax Credit. A proposal to eliminate the on state and local deduction is one of the concreteness divisions in the heroes act and not targeted towards taxpayersaffected by the pandemic and the recession. On a permanent basis this policy would cost more than 600 billion in the budget window. In closing, i would like to commend the community for swift action in march, emphasized theres an urgency in an acting additional legislation and encourage you to annex only those provisions that are targeted and for which there is consensus and that sound rationale. Thank you. Thank you mister brill. Without objections, each member will be recognized for five minutes to question our witnesses. We will not observe the givens rule in this remote setting and will instead go in order ofseniority. Switching between majorityand minority members. Members are reminded to unmute yourself when you are recognized for your five minutes and i will begin by recognizing myself. Miss long, i admire your courage and your conviction in sharing your personal experiences. Youve given a voice to millions of americans lost their jobs and are facing hardship through no fault of their own as a result of the coronavirus pandemic. Its clear the last few months have been hard for you and your family and youll still face challenges in the future even with your new job. I keep hearing similar stories from my own constituents. Over the past few months they found themselves in a financial hole trying to keep up with expenses and dont know how or when they will recover. Is that your experience and if so , would the 1200 per Family Member help you alleviate these burdens . Thank you. That is my experience. The last fewmonths have been challenging. Before the pandemic i was working. I was paying my bills and then the cares act was passed and i was able to pay my bills and continue taking care of my family right now i am looking at losing my home. Im looking at myself and my children being homeless and i have all the things that youre told you should have. I have a masters degree. I dont have a criminal record and im fighting to figure out what am i going to do now . Even with no job im going into no job and i have no home. I dont have any money saved up for a deposit or first months rent. My lease doesnt expire until may. I thought i had some type of security and here i am tried to figure out survival right now. The 1200 would be beneficial. Its not the answer but it is a lifeline to those of us who dont have an answer and that we lost so much through no fault of our own. I am the consequence of congressional inaction there needs to be something done. Thank you very much and doctor stevenson weve heard a lot in the media over how to characterize theeconomic recovery. Whether its av or ak or a checkmark. Families dont have any clarity about what to expect from a recovery in the coming months. Most of the aid in the cares asked as expired and the jobs report indicates that hiring is slowing down, not picking up. Is this recovery Strong Enough to put these families up and instead of looking back on their feet in time to avoid a disaster. If not, how could an additional round of Economic Impacts payments help those families. And without this help, what will be the longterm impact on the most economically vulnerable in our country is their ability to save and there versions. The first round of payments very clearly out much help they generate. Outbecause it is not Strong Enough to help these families on their own. Were able to help families continue to spend with the resources they need to support themselves and their children, that will continue to support the economy. I do think another round of stimulus checks are needed, and would help move us more quickly back to the kind of economy we had prior to the pandemic. Thank you. Mayor, the centers for Disease Control had a moratorium that in people were able to take advantage of but doesnt change the amount of represent due, just post owning the due date. Im concern what happens when the due date comes. With for most economically vulnerable do you think the cash influence through eips could help at least partially ease the rent case. Theres no doubt it could. I think what centers for Disease Control is a stop gap incomplete measure. We need a broad congressional moratorium on evictions, foreclosures and utility shutoffs in order to protect people in the coming difficult months over the fall, indeed the winter. So, the provisions of the heroes act would no doubt create some support, some relief, some way to protect american citizens in communities across the nation, and i would add that doing what has been proposed in the heros act, the price of that is less than the cost of homelessness and people on the streets of america and shelters overrun with people, and nowhere for people to go. These things have to be analyzed in terms of what is the impact of doing nothing . Sitting and waiting and watching and letting the crisis of homelessness exacerbate in this country. The second thing i want to add because its so critical, am creak is but a to layoff appletrack is laying off employees. Airlines are going to do another round of layoff. Snub youre nose at the city and states and youll see millions of layoffs in local government. How will you bring an economy back without business permitting offices . Without Police Officers and firefighters and building inspectors . The heroes act provisions that support state and local government are essential. You cant bailout the airline with a half billion at the Federal Reserve bank and snub your nose to cities and states. And public employees. And public workers. So theres an equity here. Theres a fairness here. Theres also the ability of leaders to see the future. The future is not a row. The future is more layoffs. Its done. Thank you very much. In good times we have kids going to bed without supper. Hunger problems during the best of times, and the expanded in the heroes act would provide 1200 tuesday per Family Member and that phase out out 75,000, but that would is the quickest way to put money in the pockets of consumers. What do you think about the role a cash infusion from the iip can play in alleviating hunger for me then families . You have to unmute, tom. Publish m that would go a long way to help alleviate the pain families are feelingful right now, food prices have gone up by 15 , and the dollars that people are struggling have to spend are not going as far as the used to so every little bit helps. People are struggling and people who six months ago were solidly middle class, never thought they would have to wait on line for food, theyre finding themselves right there, right at this moment. Right now, s. N. A. P. Is a year lag between getting our hands around the numbers. The estimate is 15 million americans right now who have applied for s. N. A. P. Or receiving s. N. A. P. And its totally inadequate. Cant get through threequarters of the month. 1,200 is a lifeline to people who are struggling to feed their children. Think about sol hitly medicalle class person middle class person who lost their job and the psychological effect of nothing being able to feed their children, 100 would ogo a long way. Now id like to recognize mr. Rice for five minutes, mr. Smith asked to go last in the questioning. In rice, youre recognized for five minutes. Mr. Chairman i appreciate you holding this hearing. Think we have it backwards, though. We didnt have a single hearing on the heroes act and perhaps of we had had one we could have worked through some of these issues and be a lot farther down the path toward helping the American People rather than pelosi and her leadership drafting the bill so that we had no input and no regular order. I agree with all of the witnesses we need to provide more assistance to families and children and people in need particularly. I apples am really concern but getting businesses reopened. The healthy workplace tax credit i drafted that was adopted in the senate bill would provide tax credits for businesses to make the their locations search. He we at and expect workers to go back to work if they dean feel theyre treated in a reasonably safe manner that would be terribly important to be included. But the bottom line here is that the heroes act contains a mass of sue perfect superfluous material that has nothing to do with the covid crisis and until now our leadership on both sides negotiating that, we have not had any hearings at the level where it should be in our committee as were having the first hearing right now, has loggerheads whether or not the republicans are going to succumb to the democrats demands of things like repealing the capital salt reduction of which 10 of excuse me 50 of that money guess to the top percent, one percent of wage earnes and 90 of that money goes to the top 10 of wage earners which makes no sense and costs almost a trillion dollars and why that would ever be included in a bill like this is beyond me, and its simply ransom that folks are requiring so that we can get help to the very folks that need it. So i am very, very disappointed in this process. I know my constituents are horribly disappointed in this process. This is so important in my opinion that we should this hearing should not be today. It should have been three months ago should be live so that we can actually talk to these people in more detail and get more of their very valuable input, because this is horribly important to American Families and we have been derelict of our duty we have not had this meetingler and havent worked through these problems and the fact the salt elimination of the salt cap would be even a part of that is just terrible but that would be thrown in and used at ransom to get relief to people who terribly need it. To arrive to cities, we have already sent 150 billion to states most of which has not even been used yet. South carolina got 1. 9 million and most of the money has not been yard of thats a significant part of their state put. So, the fact we would use this as a mechanism to bail out states who havent been fiscally responsible at the expense of states that have is, again, something that to me is very, very troubling, it angers me we would use this crisis and the pain of these people, who need this help, as a mechanism to force a bailout of states. So i totally agree with every one of the witnesses that we need more help for people on he lower end of the income scale. We need to make sure that child care is provided for. We need to make sure that people are get. We dont want americans starving. Thats we dont want people waiting in line at midnight at convenientsters with their ebt. I agree with that but the fact were using their pain to require that we give Tax Deductions to millionaires and billionaire but doing away with the cap on salt reduction, that we are using theyre pain to force bailout of the states that have been fiscally irresponsible is just horrifying to me. And i yield my time back. Your time as expired. I wrecks in the mr. Thank you very much, mr. Chairman, for organizing this hearing. Rat really powerful testimony we have heard. Hope people in the senate are listening to this. We have had four long months since we acted with legislation in the house. Yes, i agree with my republican colleagues that legislation was return. It was rushed because many people felt that we had an emergency, that folks were out there in long unemployment lines, in long lines that food banks because they were hungry and business our businesses because our businesses were shut down, many to never open again and we could not wait to act. In those long four months rent has come due, mortgage payments, pickup truck payments, the credit card bills, people struggling, wondering how will we survive this will be we but out on the street . And how have our republican colleagues responded to that . Well, the Senate Majority leader said, the states and local governments could just go bankrupt. And for two long months, in fact indeed until the last emergency unemployment assistance check had been scent out they did nothing. Theyve said it wasnt that big a problem. A little like president trumps comments when he knew otherwise, as he has admitted recently, when he knew otherwise saying, oh, it will just go away, this virus, when the summer comes, be like a miracle, disappear. Apparently that was their attitude about the crisis that americans were facing in may, so in may and june and july they did absolutely nothing. And then finally they came up with a proposal that many of the Senate Republicans wouldnt agree to. That was somewhere around a trillion dollars. When they did not negotiate in good faith on that the president said hell just do it all with the stroke of a pen. So lets look what has happened in my state as a result of that stroke of the pen. He raided Hurricane Relief funds at the very time we were having Hurricane Season to use that to provide half of the emergency unemployment assistance that texans had been receiving, and now just like the hurricane blowing through the states, its blown out and theres no more relief coming and nothing in sight for our unemployed texans. The consequences of inaction are far reaching as our witnesses have described. Im interested in the fact that my colleague is just told us about the disadvantages of the salt repeal. I actually personally happen to agree with him and i voted against it myself. But im amazed at his silence on a provision that republicans put into this bill to provide what are called net operating expense losses to 43 taxpayers, each of whom earn more than a Million Dollars a year. And those folks ended up getting under the republican amendment to the bill 1. 6 million on average each. That provision is still there and needs to be removed and is removed under our version. We dont believe its right to give more to people who earn more than a Million Dollars a year, 1. 6 million, in relief, more than was given to all of the hospitals in america under that bill. And it seems to me that if there is good faith, there would be good faith negotiations about these matters. Instead, what we have had is a bill voted on this week that goes down instead of going toward the bill. Let me just ask dr. Stephen stevenson. Not all economic can you tell us why loss carryback rank at the bottom and assistance like emergency unemployment stimulate the economy. Thank you for the question. It was exactly what i was thinking as i listened to your colleagues. The need for the support to be really targeted and i agree with that. Things like net operating loss, thats not very targeted, and if we think about what is needed, we need the people who lost income to be able to go out and spend that income so we can stop the bleeding. If if she is evicted and is not paying rent, that hurts not only her and family but hurts in the people in her community who would receive her money. Hurt thursday people you pay rent to the storesout buy groceries from and the spiral gross on. When we talk about bang for our buck in terms of supporting the economy, we need the money to get into the hands of people who are going to spend it petely. And lower income families will spend that money. Thats white we see that as having the highest multiplier and why that support the macro economy. Thank you, doctor. Mr. Schweiker, youre recognize for five minutes. Are you there . Mr. Lahood, youre recognize for five minutes. Mr. Harrington, youre recognized for five minutes. Mr. Ferguson, are you there . Youre recognized for five minutes. Maybe well go back to the democratic side and hear ten questions from mr. Larson from connecticut. Mr. Larson, are you with us . Mr. Sanchez, were recognized for five minutes. Unmute. We cant hear you, linda. Were not able to hear you. While youre working out that technical glitch, well go back to mr. Schweiker who rejoined the committee. Your recognize for five multiples. Forgive me. Its the chaos when we do these from our home offices and have fiveyearolds at home. There are couple of questions id like to ask. In your testimony you actually touched on one thing im not sure we have talk but or walks through what it truly means. We have been the n the joint Economic Committee have been looking at the line of those going back into work and theres a fear that daycare, schools being open, creates a barrier for the next wave of workers to be able to accept positions because of all of white house have little people, our obligations to be home taking care of kids. What do you see is the necessity to find a way to open up schools, daycares, safely, but what would that mean in our ability to get the vitality, what is the proper term, velocity, moving again . What are you seeing . I think that we just have not had quite enough job creation for that lack of childcare to be holding the economy back. Doesnt mean its not a problem, particular lay problem for families where they cant go back to work because they have to take care of kids and have an income problem. If theres Something Else there to take job and theres not enough jobs for everybody its not exactly holing the economy back. It will start to hold the economy back for sure, and the thing ive been most concerned about is that very few communities have priority prioritized providing childcare for parents who do need tot go back to school. We have focused too much on getting all schools open, providing childcare for all, schools for all, and we should be prioritizing the parents who need it to be able to work. I would say if we want this progression in the fall to continue we need to find ways to get schools get people safely back in school and i want to add something that mark mentioned which is we have problem with state and local government budgets. Well see layoffs of teachers right as were starting the bite on the economy, the parents are going [inaudible] i want to focus on understanding the curve and then we come back with what our solutions are. Mr. Brill, those in arizona, if you actually look at our economic expansion snubs we appear to be doing pretty well. Do you have a sense what is going on regionally and whether that is federal policy and what is it state and local policy that are creating success of expansion or causing difficulties . Thank you for the question. Certainly is regional variations both in the severity of the consequences of the coronavirus and from an Economic Perspective as well as obviously from a Public Health privilege and variations with respect so the recovery. Many of the states in the northeast where that have been hit earliest and hardest have more shutdown orders in place today, and higher Unemployment Rates compared to some of the other states, particularly the western but not most western states in the union. And there is considerable variation. Were seeing pain across the country, no question, but the degree to which that pain is being felt has tended to vary, mostly with the severity of the pandemic. The gentlemans time expired. Well good now to miss moore. Recognized for five minutes. Mr. Thompson. Is miss sanchez back on online . Okay. We roll back in order. Can you hear me. We can. Youre recognized for five minutes. Thank you so much, mr. Chairman and thank you to your panel of witnesses for joining used to especially miss long. Your experience is exactly what i have been hearing from my constituents in southern california, and as a mom, my heart breaks listening to what your family has been through and what your experiencing currently. Never have the consequences of inaction been to grave. Family loses homes, papers are desperate forchild and countless people are looking for work with no success all while the senate took months to act on a watered down bill. I have to say ive been proud to champion several pandemic related tax bills that were included in the heroes act. The house passed that bill in may, and the senate sat around and did nothing until this week. As if hunger and homelessness and joblessness takes a pause. It doesnt. It has continued. The heroes act worked to balance many competing but compelling interests during this very uncertain and certainly unprecedented time. Small businesses and individual alike are trying regain their footing and were still in the middle of the pandemic. It has not gone away. My top priority has been to give a helping hand to workers and working families in mr. District. People dont want handouts. They want to be treated fairly by their government and they want dignity as mr. Khalekeow said. They dont want to have to stand in miles long food lines for assistance, and im proud that what our committee authored does exactly that. It provides that dignity. Particularly proud of my bill to give employers a credit for covering pandemic related expenses likechild, temporarying house or uniform cleaning for their employees and that was included in the heroes act. Expenses like that are pushing families to their breaking point and im trying to help ease that burden in any way i can. Dr. Stephenson could you share your thoughts on the impact that the tax provisions in the heroes act would have specifically on communities of color and specific to communities of color, single parent household whose i think bear the largest burden during this pandemic . Absolutely. Alice mentioned were seeing a lot of variation across the country and what we see is that communities of color have gotten hid the hardest in terms of suffering from the pandemic itself and from healthcare problems and from income loss. As you mentioned Single Parents really theres no one to stay home while they good to work. So they are struggling with the school close sures absolutely the most. So, the kinds of Tax Solutions in the heroes act are incredibly important for doing two things, one getting income into the lower household thats why the expansion and funding of the Child Tax Credit is fortunate and payments like direct payments, 1,200 check to families is to important. We want to provide a floor for families so they can meet the very basic expend tight tours. Its not going to expenditures. Its not going to solve everything but helps. Then layer on me then provisions that alex mentioned that with help unemployment. We need to make sure we can transition the communities back to full employment as quickly as possible. Were already seeing longterm permanent scarring set in and i do urge you to take fast action to reduce the amount of permanent labor market scarring that occurs in communities of color because as a nation well pay the price for that decades to come. Thank you for sharing your thoughts today, mr. Morial. I want you to putter four local getter hat and talk how the committing a assist communities and i also want to aits ironic my colleague on the side of the aisle are criticizing removing the salt cap of they gave the tcja in 2017 and want to refute the notion that the assistance for state and local governments and the heroes act ol goes to blue states because i just checked and the second highest Unemployment Rate in april was in kokomo, indiana, which is not a blue state by any means and i dont think any of this providings were talking about today only go to certain states so that everybody who is with that ill let you comment. Thank you kindly. The gent womans time has expired i ask you to commit that answer in writing. If you would for the record, thank you mr. Chairman. Yield back. Thank you. Now ill recognize mr. Arrington for five multiples. Thank you, mr. Chairman, and panelists. An important discussion. Nothing more important right now than getting our country back, i getting our childrens school, our families back on their feet and into the marketplace, lights on for employers and i agree with so much of what has been said, mr. Chairman, already. I think that the senate has acted in a protracted way and not in a timely way so ill agree with miss sanchez, but i will also say that my colleagues on the democrat side have put a completely partisan bill, the heroes act, which is going nowhere. Here we are in a major unprecedented National Emergency and were not sitting down to have the conversations, and im willing to consider everything that has been put on the table. We all understand right now we have to get assistance to where the needs are and we need to start with the people, the people, who have been hit the hardest and need to provide liquidity whether its ppp or those businesses that have been hit so hard they operate at a loss, theyre not making a profit. What tot that mean . That means they cant meet payroll, more working families associated with those businesses, businesses arent evil. They are creating value and they also create jobs, and livelihoods for people, and so i just believe we should just assume at least at this subcommittee were all trying to find a good path forward, but the heroes act was talking about financing cannabis, the humanity and arts and election policies and bailouteds for Pension Union multiemployer pensions of which need to be addressed in the right context but my goodness, im disappointed on all ends of this, and so ill let that be my comment about the process and how pathetic we would good home and on recess without having met the needs of our fellow americans who are hurting, many of them. Now, we do have hundreds of billions of dollars in play that hasnt been spent. Its been distributed. Its been appropriated. 75 of that city and state money has been hoarded by states and not distributed. 99 of the moneys for schools have not been spent. So im not ready to just throw more money at this without knowing where the gaps are after the money meets the people who have the need and where we intended it to go and im sure most people agree with that. Mr. Brill, when he think about about he the moral hazard putting more money out to bail out cities or states that have a history of mismanaging their fiscal affairs, or multiemployer pensions which are upsidedown and need to be addressed. But without fixing the underlying problem and giving them way to just keep things locked down, seems like its a really big National Moral hazard issue we ought to just at a minimum consider in our discussions pout what the next covid legislation is, mr. Brill, can you speak to that concern, please . Sure. Thank you, congressman. As you described there are a number of existle challenges, fiscal policy and Economic Policy that predated the coronavirus. Funding issues for multiemployer plans is a challenge that congress has struggled with finding solutions to in the past and continues to be a concerning issue for those plans that are underfunded and severely so. But asker suggesting im in full agreement that is not the immediate challenge related to the pandemic and the associated economic recession. So those issues are important and worthy of consideration, most appropriate right now would be to take timely actions that are targeted and well designed as ive described, and other provisions as well. Mr. Chairman, how much time die have remaining sir . Your time has expired. I. Thank you for the hearing. Thank you for the time tutu very. Now will re good to two to one ratio on witnesses. Well hear prom mr. Moore and mr. Brill and then go back to [loss of audio] miss moore. Thank you so. [loss of audio] can you hear me . Thank you so much for this hearing. Mr. Chairman, and thank all my colleagues for joining. Guess my first question id like to temperature stevenson from the university of michigan. Apologize. I missed the first part of your testimony so i apologize if you have already answered this. Were there any sense while mr. Brill said that the economy is recovering, is there any sense that even under the best Case Scenario how long this deep recession will last . Yes, so, what i really wanted [inaudible] could other members mute while the witness is giving her answer . Okay. Thank you. I too think that were halfway there. It means we have the other half to go but the other half is the hard half and these are not likely to be the [inaudible] easy jobs. I you want other timeline i think with no actions by congress, that we really see this recession going on for more than a year. If we continue at the pace of job growth we had in august it would take us eight months and i dont think well have the pace of job growth we had in august for coming months. So a best case see anywhere thank you could go on for longer. Unmute, gwen. Thats whats wanted to heard. That comports with what we heard from other economists. Given that i think win we passed the nil may and we asked mr. Morial for 100 billion in foreclose relief and state and local governments who by the way, in my state, i a purple spent but we have spent all trying to save our population from covid, and we need to reimburse things. I hear that my colleague saying we need to open up schools, and not one twobyfour ofplex si glass has been put up, not one ventilation system has been replaced in a school district, and so i dont know how we do that without money. So given your testimony, dr. Stevenson, your anticipating things going on for a year perhaps, i am just questioning why we havent seen at least some kind of couldnt course decent counterproposal. My next question but the moral hazard and maybe ill start with the republican witness, mr. Brill. Do you agree with the some of our colleagues theres a moral hard given well see this for a year, any moral hazard in providing people with Unemployment Compensation or Economic Impact payments . I know your testimony says we ought to do some other sort of tax deferrals for businesses but do you see any moral hazard in us helping individuals . Without any doubt, no. There are many who testified already today, millions of individuals who are suffering significantly from the downturn, from the loss of jobs and loss of income. I dont disagree with any of