Transcripts For CSPAN2 Shaun King Make Change 20240712

The chat on the lights in your watching. The common with clovis tempora suspended in personal events but to keep you informed during this pandemic we were going full sd ahead with a full slate of live online programs. Most of these conversations are currently free to the public so we ask that you consider donating to the club to help us continue our work. Please visit us at commonwealthclub. Org online tool and more and you can also text the word donate to 415 3294231 drink this program. You can find this information in the description box below. Now please join in welcoming shaun king and jane kim. Welcome to todays Virtual Program with inforum and the come with club. My name is jane kim. I serve as supervisor here in the city of San Francisco and most recently as the california and National Regional political director for bernie 2020 2020si got to work very close with shawn campaigning for senator sanders. And really pleased be here today. So excited. What an incredible feat. Congratulation abiding your first book. Thank you. Honestly that are not too many things that scare me more than writing a book. And so i would love to talk about make change how to fight injustice, dismantle systemic oppression, and own our future. Shaun is going to share with us a little bit about his journey in the book, and as mentioned if you have a question please put it in the chat and it will show up and we will reserve time at the end of that discussion. But wanted to start with your book right here. Folks can order it on the link that commonwealth has put up but we also encourage you to go and buy at an independent bookstore in your neighborhood come here in the bakery we have in oakland we encourage you to go there and buy the book and to support people of color and blackowned businesses. Sean, i just want to talk you about what the process was like to write this book. I can imagine anything more difficult than telling your own story. Well, jane, im glad to be here with you. Im so bummed. We had originally planned doing this as a live event all the way back in may and my book was going to come out in april and i love the bay area and i think about moving after all the time. Just such good energy. We would be so excited. I love the bay and some of my closest friends are there, and i was so looking forward to making the trip. In fact, my whole family, my wife, we have five kids. We have all taken off of work and were going to take off of school and were going to do that tour together. We had 30 different venues around the country. I worked for almost a year writing the book, and for me i always have my hands in so many different campaigns and actions and were always fighting for justice for so many people there it was really just about having the daily discipline of doing the research that i did for the book. And then just writing daily everyday for months on end. Ill never look at a book on a shelf the same again because it was like a year of hard work, and it took almost as long to really edit and perfect the book as it did to write it. Its a labor of love. Its not an autobiography, like i hope one day to be able to write a book that is just about my story, but its really about my philosophy of change. Its a manifesto on how you can use your life to make change. Jane, the book is really an answer to a question that i got all of the country. I traveled on 2014 when the black lives Matter Movement began in july before the bend in the come i traveled to 47 different states. Of course all over california, but as far north as alaska, as far west as hawaii and i traveled to the deep south, in the mississippi delta all over south carolina, have you where you could all but three states. Everywhere i would go i would get one question in my book is really an answer to that question, people would ask me all political persuasions, all ages, they would want to know, sean, im frustrated about injustice. Im frustrated about Police Brutality how to actually use my life to change that thing . Everywhere a good deal, i were speaking, if i was walking on the streets, even as recently as today i get direct messages and emails of some version of that question, and theres a gap there of people like really, really aware of whats wrong with the world, but not really clear on what exactly to do about it. And in the book on trying to close that gap to show you, here are some things you could do to use your life to make change. And you and i know this, it never just happens. You have to craft it. You have to hold it, youre to build it comes yet to make it. Im trying to unpack what that actually means in the book. I thought you would articulate that well in reading that question to , the answer to that question with your story. In talking to young people who know that this is the pathway they want to pursue. Im also constantly asked a question of how do i do it . I want to make a change. How do i do it . When i was a youth organizer, the biggest lesson i learned, because you know how this young people, like like a going to rh that young person, either because theyre too cool for school or maybe because they are super quiet, super shy, right . One of the most beautiful parts of organizing work was discovering that theres always like every young person for every person wants to make a difference. Every person wants to make a positive contribution to the community. Its all about providing the tools maybe or shedding light on a pathway of how to get there. School doesnt necessarily teach you that. I have as much education as most people. Im trying to do the math in my mind. I went to school for almost 20 years, and in all of the education there was never a place where people really unpacked heres how you change the world. I even say why that is in the book here in a lot of ways because most of our institutions were not built to change the world. Most of her institutions were built to maintain it. They were built to protect it. Most of our come even our favorite institutions, even our religious institutions and other organizations and even some of her Favorite Charities and even the nations leading political parties, they were not necessarily build for change. Although times they were built to protect the way things are. When you try to say i dont really like the way things are and what to you change it to lk like this, the whole system in some ways kind of conspired against you been able to do that. For years i did the things that i thought would work to make change. I tell a lot of these stories come really a fan of us organizing, demonstrating, protesting and all those things im glad we did. We were not wrong to do them. But what i learned it was a painful lesson, after years of organizing, protesting, demonstrating, grading hashtags come trending topics, what i learned is that this country in particular more than most countries in the world is fully willing to be aware of our worst problems, the Police Brutality and mass incarceration, or could be limited change. It could be wealth and income disparities. It could be our health care crisis, now nearly 50 Million People in this country dont have health insurance. Some estimates have the number muchhyped if you count children. Our country is fully well to say i see the problem, even im sorry for the problem, but then did nothing about it. Theres just this awareness but often people in power want to substitute awareness for action. Im afraid im seeing that right now even beloved political figures, the nations leading corporations and brands saying listen, black lives matter to us. And then you asked them how to black lives matter . Show us the policies that youre fighting for or even if its corporations returned to say hey, if black lives matter to you, show us your board. Show us your senior staff. Thats right. So we are starting to say like hey, thank you for your awareness, but what were asking and more. Where asking for change and theres this big gap, hoping to get people some clear steps on how they can fill the gap in their own lives. That was one of the i hear people approach black lives matter spirit when you just focus on reforming the police, which honestly is like the end of the road, right . There so missteps before that consuming institutions that we need to reform, how we employ people, who we invest in, how our schools are run, who we elect. The Police Almost became a scapegoat for so many folks as witches reform the police then we would go to mecca in terms of the postracist country that we all want to live in. That brings me to question about one member of her audience asked, which is to both of us what he said young people who are discouraged by the nominees of both major parties being old white men . And how do you think young people, right, the rest of the question is, how do you think young people can engage with and demand to have a seat at the table . As we talk about that before. I mean, i have five children and my oldest are 18 and 20. People are surprised when i say that because they dont think im old enough to write twentyyear old, but i was almost the kid when i started having kids, and so i had been a father literally for my entire adult life. My oldest two daughters who are both college students, 18 and 20, are severely disappointed at the political nominees for president obviously never wouldve supported donald trump, but theres real pain and disappointment because joe biden was literally on every poll by every measure the last preference of every major candidate for young people. They literally preferred about nine of the people over him, and so they are learning the hard lesson very quickly that me and you and every person who is ever voted for him who voted before learned a long time ago is, its actually rare that you get to vote for somebody that you are crazy about. Its way more rare that i wish, and when you do get to vote for somebody that looks like you or comes from your community or better yet, actually shares your political philosophy, you have to cherish that moment. You have to fight for that moment. Because for most im 40. For most of my adult life i actually had never been enthusiastic about the people i had to vote for for senate, for congress, for president. And young people were voting for the first time are learning that a lot of times you have to be i dont know if the word is pragmatic, but there is disappointment in the availability of candidates. And politics, there have been some candidates including bernie who have ignited the imaginations of young people, of dreaming about what could be. And when you have a candidate who seems to not have an imagination, who is not so hopeful about what things, how things could happen, its disappointing but you cant check out of our democracy. Theres so many other down ballot candidates to be excited about. Yes. The truth is, there is a difference. For years i i used come in previous president ial elections i used the words like lesser of two evils. I dont even quite think i dont think donald trump and joe biden are comparable in their politics or even in their character. And so its difficult, you know, but it is a part of american democracy. Jane, we were really close. Obviously bernie won california and we all, you and me and so many thousands of volunteers and staffers worked our hearts out and i chose bernie as a guy for me. Hes able to pivot after disappointing loss and he gave more to his race to anybody from his own life from his own time and hes able to pivot, i owe it to him to pivot as well and not get stuck in my frustration. Yeah, by the way i want to acknowledge that that question came from lynn on youtube. I have to say i never thought i would run for office. I was reading your story that youre an activist with mega phone. I was the activist in college. Yeah, right. I was never excited about anyone i was voting for and only as an organizer where i got involved at the neighborhood and Community Level where i started going to local school board and local City Council Meeting that actually the most important thing that our elected representatives do is they determine how to spend our dollars. Oh, yeah. We should have a seat at the table. We have a 10 billiondollar budget. When my board isnt wealthy individual, we should be voting on downballot races because they are determining how to spend our money back into the community. Yeah. That budget, how much we pay teachers, Police Officers, neighborhoods we invest them in, that budget is a document that reflects values and priorities and its not just dollar signs. Im encouraging folks to think about down ballot. If youre not excited about joe biden and kamala, thats the second question. Start organizing for local races because theres a lot happening in your community and i think grass roots law, what youre trying to do and activating folks in a variety of cities, we know the Police Departments, its not the federal government or even the governor, they are actually run by cities. Thats right. And so i would love to hear about grassroots and then come back to the book. Yeah, you know, first you said something about a minutes ago about the goals and objectives even of the black lives Matter Movement that policing is just a fraction of what we are fighting for and it reminded me of, jane, when i first moved ive lived in california on two different occasions, Southern California twice for almost 5 years and when i fist moved to california, we moved to irvine. Here is how we ended up in i irvine, we googled safest cities in Southern California. Irvine was listed as safest city in america and when i had moved to irvine. I had been there for 3 weeks and never saw a police car, not parked on the road, not driving on the road. I was there for almost 8 weeks before i saw the first police car, mind you this is in americas safest city and i literally asked a friend of mine. I saw a police car parked in grocery store. I asked my friend, is there a Department Department in irvine and he took me and showed me the Police Department, he showed me the jail tucked behind somewhere. Here is irvine, the safest city in america. They want to define safety for particular communities. It was the safest city in america because everybody had not only a job but wellpaying job. Everybody was covered with health insurance. Irvine was 99 ensured. They had hospitals that were as beautiful as shopping malls. There were parks on every corn corner. All of the schools were well resourced. Irvine was safe because it was different metrics, it was built to be safe. They were built and fashioned and funded and supported in a way that safety was a part of the fabric of the town. It wasnt because there werent drugs in irvine, my daughter started ninth and she was alarmed, kids all over the school were not only talking about drugs but they were giving drugs to each other, selling drugs to each other and when kids got caught to school their parents sent them to treatment. They were treated as if they had Substance Abuse problems. It was a function of their privilege that instead of being arrested over and over again, kids in her school were given outpatient treatment. Sometimes not even suspended from school and all of a sudden, you realize, no, this place was designed to do safe, from the way they do their math, from the way they factor in different. So its very different and in the black lives Matter Movement you mentioned budgets. Thats what defund the police is about. When we are talking about defunding the police, just to translate to those who may be watching now or who might watch it later, when we say defund the police, what we are saying we just want to look at the polices budget, we want to see . Cities like los angeles where policing is now over 50 of the citys general fund to tune of billions of dollars in some cities, so we are saying, i think its a Smart Evolution of the black lives Matter Movement to say you know what, if black lives matter, let me see how it matters in your budget. Let me see black lives matter on the line items that you mention, jane. And its important for us to understand as dr. King said that budgets are moral documents. They do, they show intention. If you love children, show me in your budget how you love children. Yeah. Whatever it is that you say you love i was a christian pastor for many years, jane, and in the bible theres a scripture that says where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. In other words, your money shows where your heart is and what we are saying is, a budget shows your priorities. And right now in america budgets show that cities value mass incarceration. They value policing at all costs and you and i talked earlier, when you actually ask the people what do you prefer, thats not really what people want to be the highest priority. They do want to be safe, but their safety all around the World Without millions and millions of Police Officers, so theres a real path to doing it and yeah. In the grassroots law project, what we are trying to do is organize people just as you said on the city level because as much as the president ial campaign and election matters and it does matter, 95 of all people who are arrested are arrested for their local Police Department because of local laws and policies, their process through the local District Attorneys Office and the truth is, even when we had president obama in office, there was very little that he did that trickled down to local Police Departments and so we are when organizing on policing, thats a local fight and we are doing it in the bay. There are cases that we are taking on in the bay and cases that we are working on all around the country. Wewe are work with the family of Breonna Taylor, george floyd, ahmad arberry. Sean who was shot and killed amidst protests for george floyd. Sean was 20 years old, the very last text he sent his sister was a petition to sign for george floyd and police not only did they shoot and kill sean, but they have now lied about it. The District Attorney has rescued herself and was saying, listen, there still has to be justice and i wish the case could be tried in San Francisco, sean lived in San Francisco for a big chunk of his life. I think we actually get some measure of justice if the case can be moved there bewith will wait and see. For those who dont know sean is San Francisco City College Student killed by vallejo Police Department. They didnt get out of the car. They said they claimed he had a gun but it turned out he had a hammer in his pocket and they didnt even gave him a shot and the 22yearold never saw the next day. I cant imagine anything more heartbreaking but i will say the Vallejo City Council is a small elected body. This is a body we can influence. It is more moderate but they need to hear from us. We have to attend local City Council Meetings. They are not sexy, they are tedious. Thats where change happens. To go to grassroots law and website and learn how to engage because at the very local level we can make the difference and people are running for Vallejo City Council. Candidates are running and so we have to hold folks accountable right now while they are running for office. We have the Mayors Office is office, the incumbent mayor is not running for reelection. This is the time to really step up in that case. Sean, i wanted to go back, you know, to the book because you talk about this in your first response, but just how theres no natural or easy pathway for folks to make change. Theres no entrylevel jobs, you get hired and then you become ceo, right . Right. Obviously they hear about my accomplishments, resume, my social media, its about all of the things that we want and we have accomplished and i think that can be very intimidating for folks that are starting on the journey but what doesnt get talked about as much is the path to getting there and i always talk about how when a first graduated from college with my Asian American studies and Political Science degree, you know, i was really depressed. I didnt know what to do. I didnt know i knew i wanted to make a difference but i was really lost. Yeah. And you feel the passion. You know you want to do things and you see the injustice and you want to fight but you dont know exactly know how and where to start. You talk about that in your book, but the losses and the disappointments and also just like the depression. Yeah. That many of us go through and i think when young people go through that they think that they are only ones and they see leaders like you on social media and they aspire to be you and i cant never been sha un and they dont have to be young. We have folks that are struggling. Yeah. And struggling to be that leader, advocate. I think everybody is struggling right now, jane. You know, First Lady Michelle Obama did a recent episode on her podcast where she said she thought he was fighting through depression and she talked about how it was kind of, you know, environmental depression. Even the death of george floyd, Breonna Taylor and it was the first time anybody had ever heard herria that and theres this expectation, here she is one of the most famous women in the world with access to power and privilege in the world and this moment is still overwhelming her. Pandemic is hard. Jane, i have i have delivered nearly 50 different eulogies for families just over the past few months who lost their loved ones due to coronavirus and in my own neighborhood, im in my basement in brooklyn. We had people who died on the block to the left of us, to the right of us, behind us, we had businesses close all around here. This is a very, very painful year. Its a painful year for our country, even if you remove the pandemic this year would be hard but you put the pandemic on top of all of it. I understand how hard it feels. You know, jane, i tell the story in my book of most of what i have fought for in my life as an organizer, i have lost or failed. Most of the candidates i have fought for have not won, most of the families i fought for justice for did not get it, but what what still wakes me up in the morning really is two things, one, every new day a new family comes to me and theyre not exhausted, they just now experienced some type of injustice. In this country, American Police killed 3 or 4 people a day. And every they almost every day, one of those families comes to me and even though i may be overwhelmed with all of the struggles and challenges of fighting for justice, they are still grasping for straws and they still need somebody for fight for them and it cant always be me. It has to be people locally, in vallejo, in the bay, in new york, in atlanta, in the deep south fighting for Ahmaud Arberry and some of it is, i know that the cause that we are fighting for is still here and still calling on us and still needing us, but the flip of that is also true, the cause of injustice is going continue. Theres layers and layers of injustice in america and we can inpack it for many different angles, sometimes when youre feeling down, you dont have to pretend that you dont feel that way. Sometimes you need to take a break. Sometimes i have a therapist, jane, i see a therapist. My family, we have a family therapist. There are Free Services that provide counseling as well and if youve privileged enough to have health insurance, it covers therapy as well. Theres lots of things that we have to do to fight through the feelings of despair and then lastly, i have had enough victories to know that victory is possible, that families that we have fought for that did get justice just less than two months ago, our team at grassroots project, called breonnas law that ban noknock warrants and passed in louisville. The most strict noknock warrant in the country. Our team had a big part in that. We worked with again, its a local law. We worked with city counselors who wrote it and crafted it and we walked all the way through and so when you have those victories, you to celebrate them, you to hold onto them and cherish them and sometimes you know as an organizer, even most of the time as an organizer you wont always get what youre fighting for. Sometimes you get closer and sometimes you move the needle but you dont always get what youre fighting for, but its worth the fight. And part of what ive had to also communicate to to organizers and and instead of saying young organizers, i would think of it more like as new organizers because you may be any age but youre new to seeing yourself as an organizer or activist. Sometimes what you do is loosen the lid on the jar. You dont even get it all the way off but you loosen a little bit and the next person may loosen it a little bit more and sometimes i just know that even my own efforts are just a small part of a bigger story and i just want people to know particularly people who are advancing systematic oppression or racism or bigotry. I just dont want them to think that they can get away with it in silence, that we will say nothing or do nothing even if i know i cant change an issue, i will make sure that people who advance bigotry and hate and ugliness in the country, that they at least see us fighting back any chance we get. You know, ive run in six elections and ive won 3 and lost 3. Right. [laughter] like you i campaigned for a lot of folks that havent won but very proud that we have campaigned together for District Attorney and that we have him now as a criminal justice leader here in the city. But i was really moved by something that actually my meditation teacher had taught me or said to me which is that you cant every lose if you get us the next thing, youre fighting. If you its not just its not just resistance, its persistence. The persistence to never stop believing and even if i lose the battle, if i get up the next day to continue fighting, i havent lost, right, and thats part of that work, is that we have to keep getting up the next day because there are going to be a lot of losses and i think, you know, people always ask me, theyre like, what made you want to go into Public Service and i always say, i think thats a really easy question to answer. I mean, who doesnt want to make a positive change for their community . I think the much more difficult question to answer is why do you keep continuing to do this work . Because it is so disappointing, it is so difficult. Its its demoralizing and the one thing ive had to learn to share space with and this is one of the questions that nancy on youtube asked, is you know, ive had to learn to sit with pain and to cry on a regular basis and know that thats part of what is keeping me going. And nancy, she wants to know how you maintain your commitment, energy and motivation and i think we talked a little bit about that but i also want to expand on that because someone in your position, i think a lot of leaders who are pulled in 300 different directions, everyone is asking for something. Everyone wants a piece of you, right, and i have to say the one thing that ive been struck by you is your immense generosity in the moment of spending time with folks and listening to them and responding to everyone. Thats very hard to do. A lot of folks if your position, you know, its hard, right, and how do you maintain that . Yeah, i think it has a lot to do with even how, you know, not just how i was raised but even the arc of my life. You know, before i was an activist, an organizer, i was i had a lot of roles that required me to be very present. I was a high school, history and civics teacher and when youre a School Teacher youre just on. Theres no off switch. You just have to be present and committed for over 3 years after i left that that position, i taught for 3 years in atlantas jails and prisons, 13 different jails and prisons all over Metro Atlanta fulltime. And that was a position, again, where i had to be present and committed and forgive melange, i will censor myself, they could see bs from a mile away. These were young people who had been lied to and mistreated. I just had to be there and be fully present and be fully myself and i was a pastor for almost 15 years and as a pastor i led families through their hardest days and sometimes their worst moments of loss, of death. I was there for them at high moments of birth and marriage and things like that as well, but a huge part of what i did as a pastor was to just be a witness and be present with people when they had experienced tremendous loss and so now as i travel as an organizers and leader, eileen on a lot of that history of just being there, being present, normally until the last person leaves, before the pandemic, i would shake every hand, take every photo and some of that also you did. Some of it was i knew that for a lot of people this might be the last time id ever get a chance to meet them or see them. Even not to be morbid, but even in my own life i know that tomorrow is not promised, even with the safety risk and things that i face on a daily basis, and is wherever i would go, i would always try to treat like if that was the last place i spoke, i wanted people to have had a good experience where they learned something and they had a real human encounter with somebody that they knew cared about them. But, you know, there are a lot of things that i do. I have a whole chapter in the book. Its the next to last chapter that is about selfcare and thats a buzz word in a way, but i talk about some of the strategies that i have for selfcare, for healthy boundaries and i say that as somebody, its taken me pretty much all 40 years of my life to to start developing a lot of those systems. I wasnt born with with healthy habits. I didnt even have them for most of my 20s and even to my 30s. Ive hit a wall several times, i dont mean i felt like physically hitting a wall many times as a leader and organizer but ive hit a wall where i was just either completely exhausted or or depleted or discouraged and in those moments, im also grateful that i have people that love me, to care for me, to look out for me, even if you dont have a close family or friends unit, you have to know when to unplug and ive had to say this to organizers and activists, jane, this feeling that the world or the cause cant do without you for a day or a week or a month, is its an exaggerated sense of selfimportance. Theres no cause in the world that is going to crumble if we are not there for a few days or a few weeks. Sadly, injustices are going to go on and whatever problem was there, its still going to be there when you take some time to care for yourself and return and, you know, it sounds cliche, but, you know, doing good work is very much a marathon and so i turn my phone off at night, for instance, late at night. When i go upstairs tonight, its almost 10 00 p. M. Here almost on the east coast. When i go upstairs, i will cut my phone all the way off and if anybody, if its an emergency, somebody will have to call my wife or somebody else but i dont look at the news, i dont watch the news in bed. I try to just create disconnect so i can try to turn my mind off and try to get rest. Rest is a huge part of it as well. Yeah. I try not to look at i try not to work late into the night. I mean, i have cutoff points that allow me to have boundaries. I dont work and eat at the same time. When i eat i just eat, i eat and talk, i eat and enjoy the food. I might eat and look at something fun, but i try to give myself Little Pockets of respite throughout the day that allow me to be compressed. I think you know, often times those in Public Service view ourselves as martyrs. Yeah. And what ive often seen and we are about the same age, you know, not a lot of folks that were that i organize with in my 20s are still around now in our 40s. Same. And so that boundary is so important and, you know, there are all the things i used to make fun of, eating well, yoga, even, i didnt understand yoga and meditation and now every year i do a 7day silent meditation retreat because you can take that time off. It was scary the first time i did. How can i inplug for 7 days, well, people survive without me. They do. [laughter] they do. They definitely survive. [laughter] the world moves on around you. The world moves on without you and, you know, more importantly i want to still be there 40 years from now. Me too. Im in it for the longterm. I made a commitment to my wife and kid and many heros, im grateful that im friends with the children of dr. King and malcolm x and others. These are women who women and men who lost, whose dad died at age 39. Im 40. Ive done a lot of things that i never say out loud to even keep myself safe. I ive made promises to both my wife and kids that i would try to be here for as long as possible and that sounds that may sound strange to people but a lot of great leaders, even if they are not killed, they burn out in so many ways. Sometimes the work wears them down and can create, you know, incredibly unhealthy habits and other things and ive tried my best to be as healthy and stable as i can. I want to be here too and, you know, that that requires me to say no. Thats a Learned Behavior as well. I think for a lot of my young organizing life i said yes to everything and allowed myself to overcommit in ways that i couldnt deliver to people even if i wanted to because i just said yes too much so now i still want to be able to help as many people as possible but i have to be i just have to exercise wisdom in doing that work. Well, you still say yes a lot but i will say, a woman who has become like a coach or mentor to me told me, just remember, every time you say yes, you are saying no to somebody else. If its hard to say no, just know that, yes is often to Something Else if youre saying yes to one thing, its a no for Something Else. For sure. Standing up and this comes up a lot in your book. Its hard, right, and actually we were talking about budgets and how to invest our dollars, because every time we pay for grocery, when we buy the house, all of this money goes into a pool and i remember in 2015, this is after Michael Brown and eric garner and one of my colleagues introduced resolution to hire more Police Officers. Each Police Officer is 170,000 per head. Training, not including all the other things. And i remember coming out to oppose it and i was really scared that day because i knew, you know, i would get a lot of backlash from the constituents that i represent and the only thing that i could say that day is that it would be you know, the real question is, what does it take to make our city safer, thats the question that you talked about. So if we are talking about 171,000, as an elected, i should be easy to commit to Police Officers because i know that i can do that but can i promise to neighboring city safer. Thats a much more difficult commitment to make as an elective. I remember asking the question, you know, what if we invested in 300 of more atrisk families and gave them 171,000 every year, would our city be safer . Yeah. Right. Of course, you know, after that, you know, i actually ran against the colleague in 2016 the police dont prevent crime. They are there to address it. Schools prevent crime. Afterschool programs prevent crime and other things that we can invest in and so when you feel that force of that it becomes difficult to stand up, right, and and i know you have been posting recently about Death Threats not just against you which is one thing but your family too. Yeah. From officers in california actually. From officers in california on facebook, crazy. Yeah. How do you how do you continue to stand up . N the face of all in the facf all of the challenges, the fearmongering and the hate thats thrown at you . Well, it is discouraging, first, i just want to be honest about it. When somebody i get Death Threats almost every day. Normally they are anonymous and normally they seem like they are not real but designed to intimidate and frighten my family. This last incident, though, was of current officers and former retired officers that were in a Facebook Group for Police Officers in california who were using their real names, their Real Identities and were actually plotting on how they were going to cause to me and my family and they were talking about it openly. They werent joking, they were dead serious and asking each other, email each other for steps and directions and when somebody in that somebody in the group, an officer in the group was so alarmed that they told a friend who they knew me and that person reached out to me to tell me that and normally i am pretty unflappable when i see these things, but when i saw the screen shots i realized, no, i think they actually mean this and i was in a weird position because who do you call when youre being threatened by the police . You cant call the police and and it put me in a position that i felt like i didnt necessarily have anywhere to go and so i thought i needed to share it publicly, and my family was deeply discouraged. And, you know, right now, jane, we have security at our house and so i have some level of safety and security in that sense, but its very frustrating that fighting for change, fighting for justice, fighting for people then puts me and my family and others in harms way and ive said this, my wife and my mother are two of my begst supporters but both of them have asked me multiple times, like shaun, can you find Something Else to do. I dont know why he chooses mailman as the profession. She wants me to do anything other than what im doing and i feel a sense of guilt that i dont pivot and stop because it puts my family in harms way and, you know, the work can be heavy and i just dont want to deny that. Its you know, thankfully im surrounded with coworkers and colleagues, friends, the families that i fight for and fight with, im very close with them and all keep me through it. Even as as a father, my kids range from elementary school, college. I do with the hope that i can change and Impact Society for them and so some of the work i do, i dont want to use them as a scapegoat to say hey, im just doing it for them but im hoping that i can make this country a better, safer more equitable place for them and for families all over the country. Jack on youtube asked, do you think social media has been more helpful or harmful to organizing and what about the politics in general . Thats a great question. I talk about it a lot in the book from from cover to cover. I think that i think that jack by the way, i love that you used the book to talk about social media. [laughter] yeah. You know, i think people who read the people are going to be super surprised because people know me as somebody who uses social media as a tool but i have i have seen the shortcomings of it. You know, it does a couple of things well. It allows people who otherwise may never know each other who share similar affinities to then find each other in a way that otherwise might not be able to happen in in 1999 i was Student Government president in moore house and we were organizing for young brother who had been shot and killed by the nypd. We couldnt find anybody else who cared. Like we were struggling. There was no twitter. There was no facebook. So you had to put up flyers and hope that somebody saw the flyer and came to the interest meeting and it was hard. And so social media has changed that but social media, its not just a place for people of good affinities to find one another, social media also allows people who are hateful, who are bigots and and allows them find each other and support one another as well. While it can be a tool for good, i dont think you ever would have had president donnal trump without social media. I dont think any expert in the world i agree with that. I dont think theres theres no path to him ever being president without twitter. I agree. And so, you know, in some ways he is the he is twitters frankenstein. Hes the monster that social media created and yet here we are also using social media to fight back against injustice to rally each other and to connect with one another, so its its not evil and certainly not all good, but what i see is those who want to use it for evil for good for for, you know, like it just depends on how much efforts youre going put into it and what we often see is i even try to say this in the book, jane, is that some people who are fighting for the worst things just use these tools really, really well. And the good news of that is, you know, we can find ways to use these tools in ways that matter as well. We cant always think that like its just destiny or its just the way things are. Anything that can be used to advance a horrible agenda, we can use the same tools to advance our dreams, our goals and to organize one another in ways that matter. You know, i i mean, just as social media created president trump, you know, social media also created black lives matter and even, you know, aoc, im always am struck by the history in learning about the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights act of 1964 rand and Immigration Rights act and there were very good people that fought for that and good electives that wanted to pass those acts because they were the right thing but actually the lessernone part of that history was the backdrop was more and how the u. S. And the ussr were fighting for the hearts and minds of asians and Latin Americans and one of the things that supported the ussr and communism in the third quote, unquote thirdworld countries was the invention of the television. For the first time asians and africans saw white americans posing, throwing dogs on peaceful black and white protestors and they say why would you want to be like the americans, they are racist capitalists and countries in asia and latin america started Closing Companies to u. S. Companies and started to happen and congress realized that they had an issue and if you read congressional records, yes, there were good people fighting for Civil Rights Act, immigration about but also people motivated to u. S. Companies having access to many markets possible that punch these acts because america did not want to lose the cold war to communism, right, and knowing that history that the tv helped kind of accelerate the Civil Rights Movement, the same way the cell phone camera helped to accelerate black lives matter, Police Brutality has been happening for centuries here in the technology. Technology has changed those things and impacted these things in a major way. Yeah, and so i know that im here because of the Civil Rights Movement. My parents came in 1965 immigration act and we would not be here if not for the bodies of black, largely black and White Civil Rights Movement protestors that fought, you know, and so, you know, im a product of black history, im a product of the Civil Rights Movement using this country and even being able to now crazy as daughter of immigrant, a woman of color i get to run for office now and be taken seriously. Thats crazy, right . But its you know, its so important to understand lineage. I see that we have 8 minutes remaining and i kind of want to get through as many questions. Theres a number of questions now on i will try to i will try to get as many questions as we can. A lot of questions today about bidens pick for Vice President. A lot of folks want to know how you feel about Vice President Kamala Harris and, you know, how folks especially those in the movement who are not actively supporting biden and harris and have radical mentors who say its a step back, how do they participate . One, you know, what do you think about todays election and two what is your advice for young people that feel that this is a step back . Yeah, well, i understand it, first off, im sympathetic with that perspective. Joe biden seemed to have narrow ed his possible candidate list down to a few candidates and the final list that i saw just right before we got on made me think that Kamala Harris was actually perhaps the best person on that short list and so for everybody who is disappointed in it, its not a big encouraging thing to say, well, listen, it could have been gretchen whimar, the governor of michigan who i have an active problem with. Theres so many problems she has with her justice record as well, it should have been susan rice who no overt elected experience and has a deeply problematic record in international affairs, so theres a part of me that looks at Kamala Harris and say, i dont know, i think she was actually the best of his finalist. And ive said this publicly many times. I have major beef with with kamalas record as District Attorney in San Francisco. I said i would give it a d plus, maybe. Ive examined that record and i would also say that you have to look at her record as da and not judge it through a 2020 lens. Almost no prosecutors were doing the brave work that we see chasable dean doing in 2020, and almost nobody was doing that in 2005 when she was District Attorney. I dont judge her through a 2020 rubric but what i have seen since she left office as da and even when she left as attorney general, every year shes gotten better and better on issues of justice reform. Now, that may be a bitter pill for people to swallow. I dont know her, i dont know her team. I say it as independent of a thinker as i can be, i heard her this year that we should end qualified immunity and i heard her i said on social media earlier tonight, jane, that i dont think anybody in the u. S. Senate has said smarter things about the black lives Matter Movement and Police Reform this summer, over the past 3 or 4 months, like very frankly somebody who has been Super Critical of her for years, i was really, really surprised at how sharp and sincere and refined her policies were and way more than joe biden and her policies and her ideas were really better than almost any elected official i saw, and and so people who dont want to give her another chance or who think, you know, they wished it was karen bass or someone else from california that was more progressive, i get it. That was what i hoped as well and thats what most of us who are super progressive would have preferred. Still, though, i think she is policy wise significantly better than almost anybody in the United States Senate Outside perhaps of, outside of bernie maybe. On some issues shes super sharp and im going give im going to give her a chance, but im also still going to be a critic, you know. Im not going to stop critiquing her on issues related to palestine or issues related to medicare for all. I dont even know that i will be endorsing her or joe biden. I will be critiquing them, i will be voting against trump and, yet, i understand people who take either side on that issue. You know, something that i will just add is what you talked about earlier which is, if youre not excited about the president ial race, still vote, but getting at down ballot level and find out who is running for school board, local city council, who is running for your Public Transit agency board and also this is where we are building the pipeline for the next Bernie Sanders and aoc and ilham omar and aoc is a huge exception and its trump for that matter and for those of you in the bay area, we have moms for housing, cofounder fighting for oakland city council. We have three young latin x Housing Affordable Housing and tenant advocates, alicia crater, Nestor Castillo running for city council, cheryl davila. Get involved in those races but still the pipeline so that you have the sense that you can continue to support and, you know, one of my my biggest concerns if biden wins, if biden wins which i always hope so to that we sit back and, all right, you dont have to organize anymore and in some ways trump, the beauty or the advantage of trump was that we all got organized because we couldnt step back, and so for those of you who arent excited about bidenkamala, the fight doesnt end on november 3rd, we have to hold them accountable to the agenda that we care about and remove them. And if they do win, theyll be a new u. S. Senator in california, theres an opportunity for us to fight for someone brilliant and progressive that really represents the New California in that seat. And there are, jane, you said it, there are brilliant people running for office all over the country, so even though im not im not over the top excited about this, i am excited about people who are running for office all over the bay, all over california, right here in new york where i am. And so i am not unplugging and even even as, you know, you and i campaign, you worked for bernie and we campaigned for bernie, im still disappointed. Hell, im still disappointed over 2016 and i dont get over those losses very easily. Even with that i refuse to completely inplug from it all and the moment is too important and i never want to look back on this time which i think 2020 is one of the most difficult years in modern history of the world. I dont want to look back on this year and say, damn, i wish i had really been more involved. I wish i had done more and i said kind things on kamala on social media earlier and there were a lot of progressives and overs who were frustrated. Listen, i have to say how i feel and say what im thinking. You know, we cant be so blinded sometimes by our political philosophy or world view and i want you to have an established world view that it causes you to miss an opportunity to see something that could be good and so for me, you know, i am still excited that a a woman could be Vice President. I am so excited that a black woman could be Vice President , asianamerican woman. We often fight against identity politics, philosophy matters, its very exciting to see a woman who comes from two immigrant parents, be able to grow and thrive and lead and be nominated for Vice President. Shes also the first Vice President nominee in the democratic party. I think i saw ever from california. There had never been a nominee for Vice President. There have been people who run and so there are things to be excited about but all of our nerves are afraid and everybody is super frustrated just in general and it can cause you to even miss a moment that means something, you know, and even people think its symbolic or whatever. I think the nomination matters and i am i am hoping joe biden is about as moderate as a democrat can be, im hoping that her policies and positions make him better and bring him left and even if people arent super charged about her, theres a lot there that still we are celebrating, i think. Well, one of the reasons why i joined bernie 2020 a year ago was because i knew bernie was a winner whether he won the nomination or not and we saw that at every debate, the agenda that he has put forth which is our agenda dominated the debate questions, every question on was on medicare for all and eliminating student debt and free college, and as a progressive activist it was really amazing to hear these questions get asked in 2020 because you would have never thought about asking these questions in 2008 or even 2016 and we have to keep fighting because whether the candidate that we get to select is that progressive or not, we can change the conditions around that candidate and hopefully we can make biden one of the most progressive president s weve had in this country because of the conditions that we put in place and giving him that mandate to lead in that way and i agree with you, as someone who supported a white man for the democratic nomination, i did say, one of the most empowering things from you was to actually watch the debates and see people see andrew yang up on the stage. I wasnt expecting it. We were at the same Debate Watch Party and first time seeing andrew on broadcast tv and i got emotional. Yeah. Hes in the my candidate but it matters. To see his face and for me its not that i wanted, it has to be a person of color or a woman that i supported but as a woman of color to have the choice and that i could pick a woman and person of color but i picked the person that i identified with in terms of my politics, the fact that i could have chosen a Kamala Harris and andrew yang was incredibly important to me too and i have to continue to fight for that and now we have run out of time and its tradition to ask the speakers the following question, what is your 60 second idea to change the world . Wow, thats a great question. I did not know that was a question or i would have prepared a perfect 60second answer, but i will start here. Changing the world begins with a decision and that decision is you choosing the cause that you want to impact the most and if you look when i say the word leaders, most people think of elected officials but when you look at the most effective leaders and they are normally not elected officials, the most effective leaders have put their foot down on specific cause, it might be the environment. For my its Police Brutality and mass incarceration, it might be womens issues. Im here in my house, my wife has chosen childhood literacy, this is the thing im going the use my life, my skills, my resources, any network, my money, this is the thing that i am going to fight for, to fight against, you will just be floating above the surface of a lot of issues and i will close with this thought, jane, to me the greatest evidence of the reality that you have chosen a cause to fight for is not when you tell me what the cause is, if i ask your friends, ask your family and ask the people around you, hey, what is her cause, what is her cause. You can tell me ive chosen this or that but when youve really chosen, everybody around you will know, your friends, coworkers, colleagues, your neighbors because you will be fighting for it with everything in you and every ounce and every fiber of youre being, so i encourage everybody who sees this now or later, live life on purpose, choose a cause, choose an issue and just drill down deeply. World really needs specialist who is will fight until they sigh change in that issue. Thank you, shaun, ive been struck by your change, go to local bookstore and you can go to amazon after you purchase the books but think about how we use our dollars to grow the world that we want to see and, lets see, i want to make sure i cover all of the announcements. If you would like to watch more Virtual Programs, please, visit commonwealth. Org. I wish we could have done this in person. Honestly, just hearing your voice in my ear buds for something so intimate about this conversation and so and i really appreciate that we have the larger and wider audience in some ways that can join in because the programming is online. I think you have another event after this. Follow at shaun king on twitter. Thank you so much for having both of us. The work continues. Thank you very much for attending tonight. Thank you, take care. Next on book tv after words senior add tore joel pollak discussing the 2020 democratic primaries and shares hi thoughts on his thoughts and interviewed by matt welch. After words with relevant guest hosts interviewing top nonfiction authors about their latest work. All after words programs are also available as podcasts. So we will get into the what of the book for most of this conversation, but lets start with the why for a moment, what motivated you to write this who is the intended audience and instrumental purpose do you wish