Transcripts For CSPAN2 Mike Gonzalez The Plot To Change America 20240712

This conversation. During this hour will have a lively discussion that two of the most dynamic observers and analysts ofamerican culture today. Author of a plot to change America Mike Gonzalez and Michael Knowles. Following the conversation between mike and michael we built a q a session which i will moderate so at any point during the program if you think of something youd like to ask you both of them pleasesubmit question in the question box. Be sure to tell us your name and where your tuning in. Will answer as many questions we can in the time we have but before we get the discussion between Mike Gonzalez and Michael Knowles i want to introduce a special guest. Guest is Heritage Foundation president kay coles james. The floor is yours. That morning. I am so excited to welcome you to the Heritage Foundation and to our virtual book launch of the to change america. I want to thank you all especially i want Michael Knowles for joining us today. Were so glad to have you with us. We are so proud of Mike Gonzalez and the time and research that hes put into this tremendous book. My isnt afraid to point out whats happening to our beloved country and hes not afraid to call out those who buy into the destructive rules of identity politics. Mike is often at the tip of the seer at heritage comes to these issues. He doesnt, he does it because hes a true patriot, because he doesnt want to see our beloved country any further down this treacherous road. Asian gentleman was only in the 1960s when we were struggling to the segregationist country courageous whites and blacks were working to bring races together and to ensure america lives up to promise liberty and justice and equal treatment are all people. Today, most americans live in racial harmony. We had our first black president , weve had women and people of all colors backgrounds in the highest ranks of american businessand government. And yet , and yet our young people are coming out of our colleges and universities believing that grievance politics, identity politics is the road to justice and equality. When in fact it will bring us right to a place where this nation is looking at a time in our history when we have never been more disrupted. This book couldnt be any more timely with the riots and disruptions of statues and monuments and the rewriting of American History in the classroom. The American People need to wake up to the insidious miss of identity politics. They need to understand what this has already cost our society and they need to understand how it will poison our children and our grandchildren if we just stand by and allow it to continue. We cant let that happen and we wont let that happen. Mike, thank you for writing this important book and thank you for being here, to talk to us about that. We are all looking forward to the conversation. Is an honor to be here at the Heritage Foundation albeit virtually not in the building these days. Its such a pleasure to be joined by mike dollars talk about this book, plot to change america. I dont want to accuse you of anything but when i look around today and i see roving bands of anarchists tearing down statues of the founding fathers, all using the rhetoric of identity politics , some of whom are selfproclaimed marxists, i cannot help but wonder if you hired this group of people as a Marketing Tool to promote the thesis in this book because it seems as though were seeing that thesis played out horrifyingly in realtime all around us. Thank you very much for that introduction and thank you very much for being here. Im happy that my book is selling well and that my ideas are getting out but im not happy at all for the reasons why. I did not hire these people but everything youre seeing today, just put your finger on it. Everything youre seeing from anarchy in portland to the 1619 project to the robin dangelos socalled antiracism Training Sessions, all of this at the heart of what ive written my book. Little did i know as i was writing a year ago that we were going to have the summer of 2020 what im beginning to call the summer of hate is really a consequence of the thingswe have done to ourselves. Its funny because you trace the origin of this identity politics back to the 60s when you might see the summer of love and i think people were skeptical of that designation but now i think your description is at. Seeing the fruits of those ideologies and its led to the summer of hate. Theres one moment early on in the book that was a little surprising to me but i think youre absolutely right it is that when people think of identity politics and all of the affiliated mythology, political correctness, intersection reality, use whatever term you like. Consider that to be just a sort of eccentricity. A side issue in american politics but we really need to get down to talking about the budget or Foreign Policy but identity politics, thats over on the side of what you say is much more specific and probably more damning. You say identity politics has become our national pardon, what do you mean by . Its the software of our culture. Its everywhere around us. Weve become divided into groups based on race, and the city, sexual orientation. Gender, even disability status and anything that confers a degree of victimhood which can then be used to claim respect or attention or rewards for compensatory justice, it is from the moment you enter school when your daughters principle is saying youre threatening to high school when our kids are made to read howards in which does a wonderful job not telling history because its bad history of instilling grievances. The installation of grievances is at the heart of this and it needs to work that way and then obviously the University Campuses have been taken over by this but its going over to the workforce. Hr is telling people to but aside on their desks that say im an ally. An ally, are we in a time of war . So it really has, i have come to believe it is the jugular issue of our times. Not every group gets to claim identity politics grievance status is even though as you can see on the camera i have swore the skin from my sicilian heritage it seems like i would not qualify. Many other people in this country do not qualify so how does one get to claim this privilege of being considered oppressed . We decided in the 60s to siphon off a group of people and call them minorities. We had done this before. We had done this in the 1920s when we had a huge number of armenians, syrians or lebanese or sicilians in your case or jewish people from eastern europe. People were seen as, could be identified and we could have siphoned them off as minorities. We chose not to reedit chose to say lets have all of these servants coming in join the melting pot. And become americans through assimilation. In the 1940s you have social scientists who believe to be associate the sense of victimhood, of collective discrimination with the term minority and then the term minority as we know it today comes into its first defined in websters 1961 in a definition that we know today that has an association with victimhood. This, so we divide and all these people into minority groups and they have this sense of grievance, of victimhood and it is that which they then use to say well, the country is systemically racist. Country is institutionally and structurally racist so we must change all the institutions and all the structures and the system itself. You mention the social scientists. You mention the institutions. I think in the popular imagination identity politics is something that was developed from the grassroots. People spontaneously taking to the streets and coming towards a kind of righteousness as a group of people and demanding their rights in the face of oppression. Thats the official leftwing narrative at least by the people pushing identity politics. You say the origins are a little bit different. You say the origins are much more pacific, involve small group of people and it was highly intentional. So which is it and whos behind . It is not at all a grassroots effort. In fact it was written by elite activists and ideologues, different groups of people who formed a bureaucracy to create these groups but then still who had been promoted at universities. In the 1960s, 600,000 or so to ucla researchers to go into the southwest and commune with africanamericans and they came back with horrible news for the activists, mexicanamericans did not feel they were minorities. Did not feel they were a victim group. They didnt know they were facing discrimination which they did but they thought they could solve their own problems at an individual level. They could use their own individual agency to overcome their problems. This was very bad news for the ucla researchers and for the Poor Foundation which overtook a process to instill and to create identities. The foundation was already getting money already in the late 60s to instill identities into groups and the foundation that creates la raza and the Court Foundation to really support all of this Group Creation behind all this is the thinking of postmodernists in the Frankfurt School that wanted to replace the metanarrative in terms of the postmodernists or the hegemonic narrative to use the words of a communist leader in the 20s to replace what he means that the American Dream which is obviously were not a perfect country but we can be improved by sticking to our ideals. It is these theories that you see themselves play over again and again among the people who create the groups, who create the ethnic groups and who create identities. You mentioned antonio gromshi and is perhaps one of the most important communist follow philosophers ever sowe have a marxist for building some of these ideas. Going out into critical. In the modern university. You today have people claiming the mantle of identity politics are openly describing themselves as trained marxists, this simply the leaders of the blm organization. I see this Common Thread and the thread teams to be karl marx, the Common Thread teams to be people who are avowedly communist yet when you raise that specter in the United States people say that the crazy conspiracy. Reedit your seeing communist everywhere, thats a red square scare area is this a Conspiracy Theory or is it a conspiracy . Gromshi who you mention is the one who first comes up with the idea. Weve seen this example from the apostle st. Paul, able do a lot of good thinking in present and a lot of good writing so he begins to think in the late 20s and 30s why havent revolutions happened like marx and engels promised us . Its only succeeded in one place, a backward part of europe and russia in 1817 but all the revelations have failed since 1848. There is no italian soviets, the german revolutionfailed. And he begins to say well, the reason is that the worker has become his own oppressor. The worker has accepted all the cultural gets of the oppressor class. Family, religion, the Economic System and all the institutions. So antonio gromshi focuses his theory that we need to destroy this hegemonic narrative and replace it with a counter narrative. This is what were seeing today. Your seeing the creator of the 1619 project said this is about replacingthe narrative of america. Its sort of the refinement comes from the Franklin School which the second president max four, writes a book in 1937 which pronounces , first comes up with the idea of critical theory and thats an unremitting attack on all the norms of the west. Martin j who wrote the book on the Franklin School notes that they almost completely ignored the soviet union. There were no attacks on stalin even at the height of the trials and all the massacres. Its really an unremitting attack on the western norms andamerican norms. And what do you have today on campus . Critical theory is something that has infiltrated every faculty. If youre in law school you have to study critical legal. And if youre in other places you have to study Critical Race Theory and all the ethical study departments started in the 60s, in the 70s actually by these activists are about replacing the narrative. Angela davis, the former black panther, member of the communist party usa who was taught directly by Herbert Mantooth in the 60s. That these neomarxist, cultural marxists used in the 20s and 30s and 40s and 50s and 60s. You can trace as you just did as outlined at uganda greater detail in the book you can trace this evolution, it overflows into this crazy politics where seeing around us. One interesting point i noted in the book is you did not dedicate a chapter to black identity because of the unique role of black people in history of the United States. Legal slavery, then jim crow and then everything that accompanied those institutions. What you point out is identity politics attempts to conflate the experience of other minority groups as they continue to be created day by day with a black experience in america. Just as a matter of chronology how do these minority groups develop . Perhaps we could begin with hispanic or latino or the new term that that didnt politics people want to see is latinx. I noticed your last name is gonzalez, so what is the hispanic identity and discerning people dont come did not buy into it when it came out, why has it stuck . It is this analogizing of the unique black experience that is i think specious. They did it on purpose, but National Organization for women and of the feminists were talking in terms of jane crow at the time to make a Clear Association with jim crow. Thurgood marshall said i think, i think it was he said no, our experience is unique. I sit in my book the plot to change america i will not have chapter of africanamericans because they are unique experience. I dont think it is healthy to fill the hearts and minds of africanamericans with hatred but i do think slavery happened, jim crow happen, segregation happen. Fact i fight song because it would go back to the era of plessy v. Ferguson in separate but equal in where slowly, not even sold, very rapidly going back in plessy v. Ferguson with identity politics. The hispanic model is very clear one with they first tried organize in the 40s, late 40s with election of a Los Angeles City councilman organize mexicanamericans who worked did not think were organized enough into a voting bloc. And then the Chicano Movement comes in and the believe mexicans should be considered a raise. Mexicans is a nationality, the remaining mexicans who are european origin, mexicans for indigenous origin, mixes of their outcome even mexican african mexicans. They do have this association of mexicans and race than the begin to realize we want to expand his coasttocoast. We need we need to bring in humans, cuban immigrants in florida, Puerto Ricans in the northeast and thats when they start to come up with the idea of hispanic which the activists will begin to almost intimidate but work urography into creating the bureaucracy finally throws in the towel in 1977, the office of management and budget comes out with policy directive number 15 which as the hispanic identity and it is in three years later it gets introduced into the census of 1980, the first census that has this hispanic identity and also asianamericans which is another huge Umbrella Group that brings together americans of many different origins, people from india or pakistan or china, korea, the philippines. So americans with very different groups come very different cultural indicators brought in under this umbrella of asianamericans. Its the same thing as hispanic americans. Many people listen to this would be surprised to hear that hispanics were concocted by the bureaucracy and they will think this is been around forever, in fact, its a writer, a professor at the university of california system who wrote about this and said it would be collective amnesia. People will forget that this is new and will begin to accept this identity is having existed always. This is what they also want to do with me in middle north africa, create a different group. The development which im pleased that i where collective amnesia because that was a new Identity Group that the left tried to foist on the Obama Administration and just never took off. I guess when one for the good guys that theres not one more Grievance Group has been concocted here because as you point out in the book for the vast majority of our history, arabs were considered white. You name a a number of very wellknown era, including for instance, mitch daniels, former governor of indiana are other people of middle eastern origin. For steve jobs. That raises this question of White Privilege with we hear about today to bestselling books are written on the subject. You cant take a job or go to a School Without attending a Training Session where your castigated for your White Privilege. It raises a question. If one receives a special privilege by virtue of being white, then why are activists clamoring to remove the designation as white and create a new identity Politics Group . There seems to be a problem there. Yeah right. It gives the why to this idea of White Privilege. It can be as j. D. Vance would a very good book hillbilly elegy four owe five years ago which he described his upper income he was of appellation origin, scotch irish and we got to give you did not know, he was unaware of what was expected of him culturally, what utensils to use or anything like that. I think, i quote the activist at the Census Bureau including linda, a radical palestinian activist, the very idea that the Census Bureau brought people to its offices in 2015 to advise on the creation of mina. Tells you think much about this about agency capture by the left they were very clear about when they were discussing what to do come first a would wanted to model of hispanics and then they discussed it back to become an american arabs dont want this. They are not asking for the mena category within a professor of ethnic studies said yeah but once they understand that there would be benefits associated to the category, benefits in terms of racial preferences, University Admission time and practices or government contract, they will embrace it. It showed right away how this is really one of the things its using these racial purposes as a gateway drug identity politics. It showed also you could deride benefit from proving you are not white. Right. You might call it oppression privilege. Its become totally inverted. You quote lynd in the book as pointing out that she began to wear the hijab which he now wears and all the public appearances because without a job she was just another white woman and that was not as advantageous politically. The woman question comes up now here as well because in addition to these racial categories that are sexual category for identity politics. Whats always struck me is very strange is that women make up the majority of the population. Women make up in America Today majority of college students. How is it that the majority could become an aggrieved minority . Right. As i said in the 60s, with the second wave feminism they identified women, they analogize the situation of black americans which again is unique to that of women of the use jane crow analogy. I see, michael, a new iteration of this going through all these iterations, and that is white women are now seen as, they are being moved to the oppressor class. You have this new term karen i comes in in people are mocking women as karens which is really bizarre thing, phenomenon to be happening. I havent read robbins book, white fragility, includes the chapter called white womens peers. So i think that is a yes, women are classified now, you can get certain setasides and hiring all that for being a women but this could be happening maybe being moved back into the category of oppressor class. I am with you. Ive not yet mustered sufficient masochism to read the book. It is become very popular as has this term karen. The term karen, the wood is in common use, is a racial slur. It refers explicitly to white women. Difference is its a socially accepted racial slur. Use this evolution, this change in what sort of racial categories are protected, what sort of sexual categories are protected. There is now a disagreement between the new feminists in the old feminist. The old feminists of the second wave very much believe in biological sex. I am woman, hear me roar. Now the category of sex has been completely obliterate. It was a major agencies that we forget the day to individuals with the cervix. They didnt use the term woman. Now you might say i am woman, hear me roar has been replaced with i am an individual with a cervix, hear me worker this would create a problem within that particular identity category. Im searching for any help here so we could recover from this identity politics nightmare. Is there a chance that because of the sort of contradictions identity politics will collapse in on itself, or will it require a greater effort to rid ourselves of that problem . I will tell you i am hopeful. Ill tell you why the reason i am hopeful. The reason i wrote my book United States is to shed light on what is happening. I think Americans First need to be aware of what happened, who did it, how they did it, why they did it before we can start thinking of ways reversing of what is happened. At the end of the day, these are all really marxist ideas. The conflict is a purely marxist concept of all of light being nothing but conflict between groups and power dynamics. But at the end of the day, marxist set out to do the impossible. It is supremely vain attempt at changing human nature. Che guevara said he wanted to create a new man. But human nature is unchangeable. Unchangeable. If you read the odyssey, read the bible you come across people like moses and abraham and sarah, and you recognize them right away. They are just like us. They are humans. They lived thousands of years ago but they have the same vices and virtues that we have. Human nature is unchangeable so in the field to change human nature, marxists have to fall back on violence. That always happens. That is a feature, not a bug of marxism. Every marxist system has that rely on coercion. The American People are too attached to freeman, too attached to the liberties to really up with coercion that much longer. This is what you see the pushback against cancer culture, against hate speech, against because it is really used to silence and and sent. I think my purpose i believe that my book is to explain as plain as i can how this was done, these groups come about and why they came about. I we talk about this, change the conversation and get us to think about it differently anymore informed way that i think would be the beginning of the process of solution. I really do believe that. I am being poly and is, i am optimistic that this can be resolved. You hit on a center consolation here. This is probably the sole consolation that conservatives have in the Popular Culture and in politics, which is that reality reasserts itself in the end. It might take a long time. In my it might take a long time under any other term worksheet on earth but because you cannot change human nature, ultimately that reality will reassert itself. As you note artfully in the book, it does appear people are coming to realize that the identity categories that are then placed on by elites, i specific individual people can individuals that you name in the book, they dont describe it. I dont describe the reality that they see. Just on this one particular issue of the gender ideology, the transgender ideology never i think people know man is not a woman. Many women are different no matter how many times a professor at a very liberal college insist otherwise they know that is not the case. No matter how many times they are told he the muscovite hisp, you must go by latina, you must now go by latinx. No, i dont think that describes me very much as well. I dont like to close before go onto the q a i would like to get back to this point you made at the very beginning and its a point you make in the first chapter of your book, which is we hear now as a constant mantra, every university and every grade school for that matter, diversity is our strength. It would seem of people mean by that is chopping ourselves into small spot Identity Groups will make americans stronger. Giving up more and more grievance will make america stronger. We can look west of the statues toppling and discover that probably is not the case. We have an older idea which is e pluribus unum, out of many one. That unity in the United States is our strength. Have people woken up to that specific issue yet . The argument that president of us make there were all painted, altogether, there is, good here in america . Is that argument catching on or even if we can remain hopeful do we have a ways to go of division and identity politics before reality reasserts itself . Im glad you brought this up. Its not just people are being herded into groups. But you have to represent your group. Congresswoman pressley put it very well when she said late last year if you come to the table as a member of the group, you have to speak for that group. If you are not going to come in and represent that group and represent what is assigned to you, dont come to the table. In other words, essentialism. I have to think and speak in the ideas that are said to be by the hispanic category. You just said to me, its a great way to close, what makes this country possible, what makes this country to come together and be americans is that there is an american creed and theres an american culture, that we can adhere to, that we can have loyalty to. We can continue to eat pasta if you want. I can continue to smoke cigars which i do, but we do, this isnt something america is exceptionally unique. Ive lived in seven of the countries at least the year. Other countries many months. This country is exceptional in that it does take people in from all over the world and says you are an american, heres what we do. At the end of the day we had solve all our problems. We solve sleepy. We saw segregation to resolve jim crow by going back to the ideals of the revolution. All men are created equal. The foundational ideal all men are created equal. When lincoln fought against slavery he said jefferson did not need to put in those words to defeat the british. He put in there for someone like me to come along. When Martin Luther king says we are here to cast the promissory note, that promissory note is the promise that all men are created equal. Have to go back to aspiring to live by those ideals it when we have aspired to that that weve sold our problems and it is i think by aspiring to this ideal that we will solve identity problems. I think youre right, and building up of the equality principle, perhaps we should acknowledge the quality of our viewers in take some questions. I know there are lots of questions after from the audience so perhaps we can get into them now. Youre right. The art bunch of questions. We probably wont have time to get to them all but well do as many as possible. First one that i will read is from jim scott in colorado. He asks, with the media, corporations, or facial sports leagues come universities and every other powerful politician come how does the average person fight against this . I do want anyone to lose their jobs but i think we need to draw inspiration from the people who lived behind iron curtain and in the soviet union who did speak the truth and face the consequences. I think that there are great basketball players who remain standing when the place the National Anthem. I think we should hold them off as heroes. Youre the ones who have courage. The media will say how courageous the basco players left when the thickness at the. That is not courageous. To stand up, to be the one man in the picture of people saluting hitler and this one man with his arms folded, that is the courageous one. So i think that when your Company Comes along and tells you theres going to be another struggle session or you put something on your desk, use prudence and gently push back and say, well, what is happening . Why . I think way to sum up some courage and again please dont luger jobs, but we need to create some space for liberty. Michael, i dont know if you have any ideas. Well, i agree with everything you have said and im reminded of this irony, which is the left always tells us that there is institutional racism. Theres institutional oppression but then it occurs to me to let controls every Major Institution in the United States. They control the mainstream media, they control hollywood, they control big tech. They control Higher Education and lower education. The list goes on and on so if there is institutional racism or oppression, whose fault with that be . Probably the people who went institution. You bring up the great basketball player who stood up for the National Anthem when everybody else was taking a knee. That guys name which is on the of the night was jonathan isaac. Im not a big nba fan but i think a lot of people have never heard his name before. Theres a consolation here and a worthy lesson, which is even though this is a relatively unknown player, he is now selling more jerseys than anybody else in his league, including lebron james. There is some people call a a silent majority of the grid not your conservative or republican necessary to the silent majority of the few bullied, who censored, who feel intimidated by this highly etiology eyes institutional environment, and they want push back against it, they want to reward people who fight against it. Very often if im speaking on a College Campus kids who aspe should i speak up in class or shut to keep my mouth shut and go to could create laid on i will tell people might use . It seems to me integrity is a habit. Honesty is a habit. As you say, we dont want anyone to lose their jobs for get kicked out of school. We want people to be wise as serpents and innocent as doves. These habits have to be practiced. Its not can be easier to market practice or to tell the truth and have integrity when youre out of college and you some have a job and family to support. Its not going to be easier ten years from now or 20 20 or so w either. Courage is a virtue, its a prerequisite for all the other virtues. One wants to be more people will reward than speaking the truth in an oppressive environment. Michael, this is probably a good one for you since you mentioned you are talking with college student, interacting with your audiences every day so you talking to average people who are trying to navigate this. So the question is, for people who study marks, how does the average person talk about what is going on in laymans terms and explain to the neighbor why its so dangerous . The laymans terms are actually the key because so much of what is in this book, so much of the plot to change america has been changed on the highly technical jargon of a budget a kid leftist academics going back 100 years to the point now if one is to engage in a conversation in a Critical Race Theory class we have no idea what were talking about. I think if we speak in plain terms thats when you are much easier way to communicate to people. The nice thing is, because you have this highly etiology iced leftist culture, the alternate to the is common sense using common language, the idea look practice itself is great is very complicated polysyllabic euphemisms that say basic obvious things. I would engage on that level. I dont think you need to go through the notebooks. I myself can never get to that i think its true of a lot of people. There are many people in this country who could soon something is off, something isnt right when the statues are toppling. Thats simple enough. One thing i would encourage people to do as well as recognize, going back to all these older thinkers. The left trick has to caperton all of their political flossie is a science so it will be the science that of history that ty discovered or the social sciences. They use the term science so its impossible to disagree with them, where as in authentic politics and political flossie there is debate between each of the questions weve debated since the dawn of civilization. That is legitimate. These topics are open for debate. You dont need to have 15 letters at the end of your last name and credentials of all the top schools in order to engage. We the people saw the voice, at least for now. One thing i want to add, thats very good, my son was home from college. He said when you talk to critical theory to make sure you make the case that youre not talking Critical Thinking. Youre talking of the opposite. Critical theory is opposite Critical Thinking because it to you what to do in making critical theories about making a public entity. The other thing want at is anybody wants to really keep up with this, theres a very good resource that Michael Knowles, great podcast and michael does explain these things very well. I want to give you thanks for that. Go ahead. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. We have a question from Daniel Thompson and my, since you didnt include a section of African Americans of their unique history, why is it you think black leaders have not fought back against all of them all of these independent groups hijacking their movement . You know, that is a very good question i asked myself all along. Some people at said the Core Foundation when window said ito create these groups had the fear that the Civil Rights Movement needed a wider constituency. It could just be africanamericans who are 12, 13 of the population. It could be that these leaders think that the constituency is enlarged when they are speaking on behalf of of all colored people. The needs of leaders at the needs to average people, the average americans rankandfile americans are very different. Sometimes at odds. When you have reverend sharpton for somebody else speak in terms of, on behalf of all people of color, all my northcom is reay enhancing but this is not doing any good africanamericans, i dont believe. Michael, do you have any thoughts on that . I think that is completely right. I actually think this point that mics in the book not to have a chapter on black identity is sort of the key because the black identity in america is unique and you cannot as mike says analogize of the groups experiences. For one simple reason which is that a huge number of black people in America Today can trace their ancestry back to slave ships. Their ancestors were brought here against her will and so that is a categorically different experience from people whose ancestors chose to come you. That choice, that give your greatgrandfather decide to come to this country, as a free active will show you how preposterous it is to now generations later contrive this grievance at the country that your ancestors sought out in the country that gave ones ancestors a place to build a better life. Theres some questions regarding what we do about the insertion of identity politics at all levels of education. Mike, i know youve dealt with this in montgomery county, harvard and in many different places. What advice would you give for parents from k through phd who have kids in school . Yeah, i mean go to the meetings the board of education and make a past of yourself and ask the tough questions. My wife doesnt like to come with me to the meetings for exactly this reason. You have to ask why are you spending money on such things as cultural responsible teaching which has zero proof that it works and yet you are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars that could be spent on books or computers and so forth. Among the policy recommendations i give it a two. One is to get the government out of the category of creation business. The bureaucrats are not biologist. They should not be creating categories. The second one is to get out of, stop giving benefits for people to adhere to these categories. Once we stop this, and to do believe that affirmative action which is really preferential is unconstitutional and a deeply is running out of time. Sandra day oconnor and i think in 2003 said we are going to approve this but only for 25 more years. That is coming up soon, in eight years but i think even before that the next time this comes because of asianamericans, chineseamericans in indian americans, and next time it comes before the court the court will boot up and say this is clearly a violation of equality under the law. I of course agree parents should be very involved in their childrens schools and go to the School Board Meetings and look at the curricula. One thing i think thats important here as well is do not underestimate how damaging identity politics can be for Young Children when you find identity politics in the schools. There is nothing worse that you could tell a young child than you cannot succeed because of your skin color or your Sexual Identity or ever identity category you prefer. In the 1990s when had the self esteem public to extreme we took kids they could do whatever they wanted and theyre always wonderful. They got participation trophies and an a on every assignment. Now it seems its one in exactly the opposite direction and we telecom i suppose half of the population you will not succeed. More than half the population when you include women. You will not succeed. You will not be able to do anything. Give up, dont try. Thats the worst message. That is opposite of what education be doing. The entire point of education is to teach us to grow, to grow wisdom and to make as responsible people construct and you can achieve. Windows identity politics creep in that may seem like a trivial issue we can check that something identity categories but they can be profoundly damaging for your childs life. Thats right. Any parent who comes across in the idea that punctuality, hard work on use of reason, the use of reason is a a function of whiteism. They should just come back to the teach ins a do not teach this poison to my child. This is racist stuff. On this when youre to stand up and say this is poison. What separates us do not say it is the right thing. I cant believe that were seeing this in 2020, and so fight against that really hard. The was an argument on twitter yesterday about whether to post to actually equals four. People were serious about it, too. Michael, also this one to you. Its from david frum canada. He asks why do corporations and Foundations Fund this movement . What do they get out of it when so few people actually support it . A great question from our neighbors to the north which i lovingly refer to as americans had. I think the Republican Party in the practical partisan realm of the conservative movement has made a a big mistake for severl decades, which is in their zeal to go after the everexpanding size and scope of government, they seem to give Corporate America pass and they developed this sort of Bad Reputation as being promoters of Corporate America. Corporate america is the problem. Corporate america probably more than any of the group made with exception of education is leading this left splurge in america and embracing identity politics and hurling us off the cliff into nonsense and oblivion. Why are they doing that . Because corporations have one goal, which is to follow the almighty dollar. Its much easier when you have contrived activist groups which are wellfunded and highly organized as mike describes in the plot to change america. When youve got those highly motivated groups petition come threat become boycotts can even making a couple dozen phone calls, that will push corporate policy because they just dont want to deal with it. Its easy. They will save money in the long run. Why not capitulate . I think we need to hold those corporations to account. There has been a debate now at least since the rise of President Trump and over the last four years over globalism. We now have corporations that dont even seem to have much loyalty to the United States. They seem to have more of a transnational loyalty or even in the case of the envy which we mentioned earlier, facing more loyal to china than the United States and thats a big problem. I dont blame corporations are following the almighty dollar but i think we had to do much more in this country to hold them to account because even if some of we managed to rank in the ministry of government, even if by some miracle we were able to rein in the educational system you would still have this major power for shaping Public Opinion Corporate America. If we dont get them on the right track then when not going to be able to escape this absolute scourge of identity politics. We have time for one more question and that question will come from John Bergdahl and it will be for Mike Gonzalez. With all this talk about identity politics we know we have shared american identity. How do we restore that . We need to go back to teaching civics. Civics used to be known who were the founders, what were their strengths what were the arguments . They often argued against each other. What is the system, what is natural right, what is natural law . We are the only come what makes america exceptional also is the fact with the only country to derive our legitimacy from natural law and natural right. Its really all over the founding documents. What do these things mean that we have rights that we have pregovernment and only tyrants can take away . So how does a system like this work . What is the separation of powers . And then how do you become specifically engaged . Civics now physically how to demonstrate, how to go on the street, you can get extra points in your civics class if you go march in washington, take a bus. We need to go back to the old traditional understanding of how civic american caesar his or her government but we also to do the hard job of driving identity politics this division of the country, look, we are a country made up of many different peoples. We really need to go back to we do derive pleasure from knowing our background. We do enjoy grandmas cooking. We enjoy our families history, but we are also come this other thing which is americans. Which is a wonderful thing to be. Be. We are all very lucky that america extensis this right. This is really i think the way out. Its not going to be easy, im not promising it would be easy but we got to do it over lose our freedoms. I believe that very strongly. Michael, final thoughts . My final thought is that people should go read the book. Because not even just as a plug for mike but because youre absolutely right. We will lose our freedom as weve come to understand of freedom in america and as we have cherished it all these centuries. We will do that if we lose a sense of natural light, if we allow grievance to multiply. One of the most important takeaways from the plot to change america is this didnt happen by accident. This wasnt just some. Of the most grassroots campaign. There were specific individuals that we can in going back that 100 years who plotted this and to effect of this campaign to dismantle america. Statures of Thomas Jefferson George Washington are falling all around the country. That was not an accident. That was intentional. If you want to save our country, if we want to save our cherished institutions and our freedoms, the nation itself, that isnt going to be by accident either. That is going to be an intentional act. We will have to muster the courage to do and you will not be able to do that unless you know exactly how it happened in the first place, which is what i strongly encourage people to read the plot to change america. And the Michael Knowles show. Gentlemen, this has been, i can think of a better way to spent the last hour. Id like to think you, Mike Gonzalez, Michael Knowles and kay james are giving us your time today. We will be sharing a recording of this for everybody who was d us today later on so look out for that. I want to reiterate two things before we go. First, please purchase a copy of the plot to change america. If you already have purchased one, consider buying another one as a gift. You can go to heritage. Org the plot to do that. Second, subscribe to both of our podcast, the Michael Knowles show, simple enough and the birth ted cruz. I understand theres some good episodes right now which is why michael is in d. C. With that, everybody can take you for joining us. Have a wonderful tuesday. We will sign off. Thank you so much. Thank you, greg. Thank you. Thank you, michael. Booktv on cspan2 has top nonfiction books and authors of you weekend. Watch booktv on cspan2 today. Hi, everyone. Im Chris Contreras and director of informed. Welcome to todays program, making change with shawn king. He is a writer, an activist, cofounder of the author of the new book, make change how to fight injustice, dismantle systemic oppression, and own our future. This conversation moderated by former San Francisco supervisor jane kim. If you like to ask our speakers a question, youan