Interview program for guest hosts interviewing top nonfiction authors about their latest work. All after words programs are also available as podcasts. Host we are going to get into the blood of the book for the conversation but lets start with why for a moment. What motivated you to write this, who is the intended audience and what instrumental purpose do you wish red november to serve . Guest i became interested in the leftward drift of the Democratic Party because it seems to me to be quite radical not just for the Democratic Party but for the country. I had been a democrat in my College Years and shortly thereafter and i became more conservative over time before becoming a republican joining breitbart and so forth. But even then, i maintained an empathy for kind of utopian thinking as they left guide. Im not a utopian myself, but i do think that Many Democrats with whom i disagree on policy issues and ideological issues are coming from a very good place. They want to make the world better and what struck me about the direction of the Democratic Party that its taking that party in such an extreme direction but it risks following over the cliff and pulling the rest of the country with us. One of the most important things that changed my mind about politics was my experience for seven years in south africa seeing the left wing government mismanaged the country. And i came back to the United States with the lessons of that experience very prominent in my mind and they guided my thinking about american politics. And i see the american left making many of the same mistakes whether its identity politics or state driven economic policy, radical restructuring of our energy policy, the emphasis on race. All of those things in my mind are not just bad policies but they can also be extremely destructive democracy as we have known it. So i want to get into the Democratic Party primary to document this process and examined the candidates and the issues and if possible not just to document whats going on but also to warn people about how dangerous this was to the political democrats and the country itself. Host in those primaries, the person who won was not the person making the most old kind of progressive claims on Economic Management or race or anything you mentioned. How does that you said pretty provocatively in your book that if joe biden wins in november it will be the first socialist presidency, and i think one of the immediate reactions by a lot of people who dont follow politics as closely or necessarily as you and i do on a daytoday basis but like the socialists that have been around forever. So how do you is plain hound hor thesis matches up to biden actually winning those primaries . Guest lets look at what joe biden has done since securing the nomination. I read about this in the book the moment he came out in front of a National Audience on super tuesday after having won all these victories and at that moment when he was the effective nominee of the party. There was no way Bernie Sanders was going to recover, and it was a remarkable few day days rightp until the South Carolina primary on february 29. Bernie sanders had completely dominated the early primary stages. He won the first three popular votes in the first three primary caucus states. No candidate from any party have ever donhadever done that beforn on the morning of super tuesday New York Times and others are saying Bernie Sanders was the likelihood of to come out the winner. Joe biden rallied the astonishment of the party behind him and in an extraordinary 48 hours many of his rivals dropped out and endorsed him and the party swung behind him after winning South Carolina with the help of James Clyburn and that endorsement he then won on super tuesday not just in the south where the prominence of africanamerican voters has always fought to give joe biden a little bit of an advantage given he was so closely associated with the baca, but he wanted Amy Klobuchar substate, elizabeth warrens home state, and i think that its partly because democratic voters understood who they were being told to vote for him to the party signaled this is the candidate you want. Joe biden doesnt call himself a moderate. Hhe was asked in april, 2019 before he got into the campaign whether he was a moderate and he saisaid to the effect i wish thi had been called a moderate. It would have been easier to get elected. Joe joe biden uses the word joe biden does not. Since the primary, since that super tuesday when instead of following the usual pattern and moving back towards the center and trying to frame his pitch for a general election, joe biden has been moving further and further to the left, saying things that are actually rather extraordinary. He called for, quote, revolutionary institutional changes that i was on a podcast with andrew yang and in the same podcast he talked about revolution which interestingly was also a word we saw on the first night of the Democratic National convention. One of the videos had someone talking about revolution. If you want to send a moderate signal you wouldnt use terms like that. That is a Bernie Sanders term, not joe biden. Hes also spoken several times about fundamentally transforming america. Over and over again. He said, the coronavirus for example, was an opportunity for fundamentally transforming america. Joe biden has been using that kind of rhetoric and moving further and further to the left. Hes embraced the pre new deal. The only difference with joe biden is that he gives the country until 2035 and she gives thgetsthe country until 2030 ann and so on. Theres almost no difference anymore between a platform of joe biden and the platform of Bernie Sanders in fact they are calling it the Biden Sanders and the platform. So, this extraordinary move to the left is to get closer to the general election, signals that joe biden is moving left, but also that his party is moving left. You dont have to take my word. The Washington Post has written several articles about it. The independent polling and Statistical Analysis website said that joe biden if elected would be the most liberal president in the history of the country. Biden himself said things like that, barack obama said he would be the most progressive in history and Bernie Sanders i think that most progressive since Franklin Delano roosevelt and sort of envisioned as they reassuring example but they are not going to go too far but franklin ddelta roosevelt was against publicsector unions and actually rather moderate compared to the democrats are proposing now. Then there are obama let the cat out of the bag in july when he spoke at the john lewis funeral and he said when democrats win, they are going to eliminate the filibuster, they are going to look at statehood for washington, d. C. , possibly puerto rico, they are going to talk about passing amnesty for illegal aliens according to chuck schumer. So the plan to go ahead with massive changes, joe biden signed onto th on to that agendd hes speaking that rhetoric. It doesnt seem that hes quite in control of that agenda. Hes probably being pushed. There seems to be a lot of people pulling the levers behind the chain. Joe fight and it turns out is the most leftwing major nominee that we have ever seen in this country despite a 50 year career almost of just being a guy that gets along with everybody, shake hands and appears at public events. He has become the candidate of the most leftwing of the party that we have seen since 1972 and maybe since well before then. Host you reference the Democratic Convention i recall 2016 Democratic Convention where you and i were both at which is a pretty Dramatic Affairs sometimes. They spent a lot of time working on both platforms to make it particularly on economics more so than Foreign Policy where Civil Liberties are criminal justice. A lot of thought on that platform is that there was a lot of discussion back then particularly among the conservatives are saying sure, Hillary Clinton might have seemed like a moderate at various times but she signed off the most radical platform in history and in fact is going to be the most in the famous essay from the Claremont Institute so we have to stop this from taking over. My question is given that history if that is a fair rendering of it, do the conservatives run the risk and do you run the risk of the boy that cried wolf. Do we run the risk of having people tune it out and bought it in precisely aeven precisely att when the actual platform is more left leaning on economics . Guest every election for the conservatives and the country in general because since 2008 bass offered nominees whose agenda is and to run the country better to change the country and this is different from those of 1996, 2000, 2004. Both parties like to point to the extreme and say this is what you are getting. Theres a couple differences this time around. First of all it was one thing to tell the history of the country statues are being vandalized, civil war soldiers, that memorial we are seeing an assault on history itself and the other thing thats different is Bernie Sanders was an outlier and now hes established a new norm for the party. The candidates of the democratic primary, and i talk about this, all adopted cinders positioned one exception is biden didnt go all in for medicare for all. He wants it as a choice. Effectively, an and iciness args quite convincingly, if you lowered the age physics, you are effectively going to go out of business anyway then you are at one option which is medicare for all. People are not giving up. Their plan was feeble push for medicare for all regardless. But all of the major contenders. Elizabeth warren led the field to close the tax on americans, peres is now the running mate for july and not only proposed for the green video and medicare for all, but also said that she would do away with the filibuster. All of these positions are being staked out openly. The first one that introduced the grainy video and is a democratic socialist and expanded a group of candidates and candidates that openly are socialist and believe in tearing down the old system into putting up their new system. You can see the results of these policies in places like california. Seeing the results of the policies take the Green New Deal for disabled a have an early version of it in california where the states have mandated and moved to Renewable Energy sources like energy and wind. What happened during a heatwave in august. As leftwing as they come they said its time to sober up. They have people pretending that these transformative radical sentiments and to transform america in late october it was five days to go for the throwaway line. They were saying that openly cuts in defense of the transform america cant campaign to talk about systemic racism and hes condemning the society that hes running and hes doing so openly so you can see that theyve made the same complaint before. What has happened is that the left has only become more in its conviction it appropriate for the country and i think that this is a Long Distance away from where they went in the right direction in 1990 where bill clinton triangulated and by moving to the center, he had been part of this decades long project that moved in a pro market directions of the democrats were offering americans a better run free market, and that was a winning offer that one could have continued it not been for the impeachment of the scandal that i think made it harder for al gore to win. But for the democrats are in control now, they took the opposite lesson that they were dissatisfied with welfare reform, for example, and with moving back to the center and they want the opportunity to try out their radical policies. They are not going to be denied until they d do the democrats he to defend 80s just consider a series of defeat. I think democrats could wind. The polls certainly say that and if they do they are going to put into place radical policies that are not just shifts in policies but the question of the filibuster adding new states and u. S. Puerto rico and washington, d. C. , youre getting the new Democratic Senators because they will not elect republican senators. That makes it almost impossible to win a majority in the senate so you put the democrats in the majority of republican republice opposition. We are looking at a chain gender system even before we get to the policies of this is a flight 93 election and they d we do have s of these until democrats decided that this is software they wantt to leave the country but woodward and worked in the past. There are some democrats that know it but the ones in control are not on the same page. Thereve been a number of studies that looked at the composition of different sections of theater for disabled and they are usually pretty authoritatively or convincingly i should say that Democratic Politics were progressive player is more progressive than actual and democrats and progressives themselves. Like twitter is a microcosm, its a magnifying glass it makes things seem more left than they are. During the primary which we cover and is the subject of your book it seemed at various times and now specifically peres, castro and gillibrand who have moderates in their past. Cory booker ive also added. During the primary season they seem to be running to win. They were running super kind of woke hitting the cultural notes that seeme seems like what the democrats were clamoring for. That strategy objectively fail failed. They went totally in that direction and got squashed like bugs. Could it be when we were thinking about and characterizing the left, the Democratic Party we are baffled as the characteristics of the democrats that tipped the house but in the democratic favor. They didnt hit a lot of things. Is it possible that they are making the mistake when characterized with the party now imagining it to be more radical and progressive . Guest the institutions of the Democratic Party have also moved left and thats for a number of reasons there is another institution outside of the party that creates the leftwing environment and it tends to amplify those voices and it does on the right as well that the Mainstream Media also plays a role in moving the Democratic Party to the left. The differences you know you are getting a leftwing network so in these ideas that isnt really changing the agenda for the party thats because it is the standard that it represents the standard conversation. Ironically they did a good job at that because they have powerful pro tromp voices it was also there on cnn since tromp wan, cnn has been a cheerleader not just for the Democratic Party, but for the left and theyve moved the party in the directio a direction ande you an example in the book cnn thought it would be a good idea to stage a number of town hall events not just with candidates. I think thats valuable to have candidates oneonone they had them on these issues that are a problem because when used stage these they are produced in front of a live audience, at least they were before coronavirus. Usually with activists on a particular issue and they will reward with applause the candidates that best reflects the most aggressive position on their issues so if you have a Climate Change townhall and cnn devoted seven hours of programming to its Climate Change townhall, you will get candidates competing for the approval of the audience which is how people watching at home no father wouldve done well orr not. They are offering more and more radical proposals. There are still today video clips circulating from the Climate Change townhall. Here is complaining about Plastic Straws that has nothing to do with Climate Change but its a funny clip if you were on the conservative side. Andrew yang talking about forcing people to drive electric cars. This is where the Party Started going off the rails and cnn was pushing them there. The best or the worst example is when they did a townhall on lgbtq issued and there was a transgender woman in other words someone born male but now identify as female that literally snatched the microphone away from a woman trying to ask a question and stormed the stage and started accusing cnn of silencing black transgender women into this whole introduction. The republicans watching this or the americans watching this on if you dont have the political label on it, thought it was unreal. This is the Democratic Party that completely lost control. Theyve given over not just the activist in the interest groups, but theyve given control to the crowd. In a year later, you see that. You see that with black lives matter defining the agenda for the Democratic Party. The first night of Democratic Convention we heard democrats repeat, for example, the idea of peaceful protests. These have not been peaceful protests. They have in many cases been violent and with reference outside of the white house in Lafayette Square that was cleared ouwas cleared outby thes according to bill barr, pepper balls and other things but what is amazing to me is th the callt that peaceful. We had a journalist from Breitbart News and he was assaulted in a protest. We have video of that taped by the people. He was assaulted by people at that protest and he wasnt the only one. They assaulted a fox news crew and other journalists. The only reason more people dont know that this wasnt a peaceful protest is that journalists are afraid to report from some of them because they are violent. So, they are defining the agenda of the Democratic Party, the demands to defend the police. Be from the police. This is a losing position. Something like 75 of the American People dont want to be phoned the police and get you have democrats talking about that openly. Joe biden said he doesnt want to be phoned the police but redirect funding. So i think that the media in some ways are complicit with this in four important than the party itself pushing them in that direction. Social media is a big part of that and amplifies the radical voices but we also have some fairly mainstream institutions pushing people in that direction and finally the last point that i would make it for about 15 years, youve have the involvement in a very serious way outside of the groups funding activism. Im not just talking about Campaign Contributions and running ads during elections, that sort of thing. The bad you have on both sides but much of the Democratic Left is leftwing foundations whose agenda is very far left. You have some of that on the right as well. Ubiquitous coke brothers. First they were a bad word on the left and then they became a kind of backward on the right. It turns out that they actually have three deliberate positions on criminal Justice Reform and immigration so that made them a target for the popular conservatives. Thats what is interesting is that an internal rebellion against that among the conservatives that the groups that were heavily funded by outside donors were essentially bypassed. Donald trump kept in and swept iby the way. Democrats, foundations there is a lot of consternation and controversy when he mentioned the name george soros and that sort of thing. Theres a lot of people involved. Funding the me two and an impeachment campaign. Theres a lot of money. Its a very radical left wing cause. When they give you good people are paid to espouse them into shapes the way the debate moves and i think theres a huge amount of money now recharge with the corporate contributions to black lives matter and a lot of these companies that have given hundreds of millions to what are essentially political groups that are not going to benefit directly but are going to go out and advocate. They are reshaping the agenda. So i think that there really has been a shift to the left and its going to take quite a long time to unravel and i think the only way that its going to be unraveled as if democrats can be convinced to walk away from the precipice. If they win i am not sure that they will. Host youve played a role on the occasion during the primary campaign specifically in the 04 campaign with a campaign. Talk about that. Guest his campaign had the objective from an event at Benedict College which is a historically black college in columbia South Carolina. And it was funny because i got to campus for the event and i was actually shown into the event by students because it was a little difficult to find my way around and the students couldnt have been nicer. They showed me where it was and i walked into a groove and Business Media in the back. A very crowded. About a hundred students and journalists in the back. I went as far back as i could and a guy came up to me and looked at my credentials which i always wear. I dont go into these things surreptitiously. He said breitbart, all right. He put his hand on my shoulder and i was a little suspicious of that. He was friendly in his tone but i knew that there was something going on and at that moment i took a sophie. I took a picture of myself in front of the classroom because they knew if i was going to get thrown out which was in the back of my mind about this person singled me out. I wanted to be able to prove that i was there and sure enough a policeman came up to me, told me to leave and i started walking out he said take your property with you so i got my backpack and everything and walked back. There was a Campaign Official and i said why are you doing this and he said because youve been disruptive, which was just i was in a press conference with him the day before. Nothing disruptive about it. I asked a question like everybody else. There was somebody else out of the event previously at the college of charleston and the question and answer session asked him when does life begin. He was a prolife question, and i seem to remember he blamed breitbart for the question. We had nothing to do with that question. I have no idea who it was, but a prolife person came in and asked the question and we posted the video maybe. We covered it up i had nothing to do with it and couldnt have anticipated that was a question he would ask. Similarly the campaign had it in her mind that we were there to ask questions i dont know what they were thinking but anyway, this story that i was disruptive which was ridiculous. They escorted me off campus. A Police Officer said you can go willingly or we can do other things. What was amazing about it is once we put out the story that i was essentially escorted, kicked out, everybody came to our defense. Everybody. And i have to give cnn credit as much as we give them a lot of trouble over their political stances and call them fake news i guess and they call us other names. Theres no love lost between breitbart and cnn. Cnn defended us and basically said you cannot pick and choose who gets to come to your Campaign Events if you want to be president of the United States. Access to the press means access to the press. Guest you obviously, red november is kind of a dual meeting. You say that either what happens in november is either joe biden wins and we have our first socialist president so lets talk about trump for a second. You make the case or at least mention trump is arguably the most conservative president since Ronald Reagan. I see a difference on some pretty key issues, especially freetrade, the approach to immigration quite different from reagan and in terms of socialism itself. The annual spending from washington under trumps watch has increased by almost a trillion dollars. This is prior to coronavirus. God knows what we are going to be spending after all is said and done. What is conservative about that . Guest its an easier question because reagan signed an amnesty and 86 and it was clear that he was doing so as a part of a compromise where the republicans caved in on amnesty and the democrats caved in on Border Security at the Border Security never happened. Thats one of the reasons conservatives are so dug in on immigration now in hawaii republicans rejected the deal in 2013 because this problem of securing the border has never been addressed. Reagan wanted it to secure the border that was part of the deal and the democrats didnt fulfill their end of the bargain. The republicans know that and that is the collective memory so i dont see a difference between reagan and trump on immigration. I think trump would like to sign the deal. He mentioned that several points he would like to legalize the recipient and so forth and the democrats have avoided the deal believing they could win all of the marbles not having to compromise anything. But the question that free trade is an interesting one. I dont know that there is a conservative position on free trade. I think that both reagans position and trumps position find some space in the set of conservative ideas. So the freetrade argument is a conservative argument because the conservatives believe that markets produce more desirable outcomes in a trade is a Global Market and we are better off certainly as consumers from having free trade because we can focus on producing things we produce most efficiently and trading partners can focus on what they produce most efficiently through the magic of disadvantage, everybody gets more of what they want at lower prices and i think you could argue that even with all of the difficulties of the free trade with china, weve benefited as a consumer industry or Consumer Market from having lower prices and access to more goods and cheaper goods and electronics and thats a good thing. But theres another side to that which of course is the issue of the preserving our economy and not just protecting industries that are facing new competition from abroad but also Key IndustriesLike Pharmaceuticals and defense contracting, hightech and so forth. There is a strong conservative nationalist argument for keeping certain American Industries protected and trumps favorite word on this is reciprocity. I think that isnt even a conservative or liberal principle to the idea we treat others the way they treat us for many decades they didnt do that. We allowed the United States to be taken advantage of and a chump is insisting on reciprocity which i dont know if i dont consideidont considl necessarily. So i think that thats very important in an area i dont know that trump and reagan necessarily disagree over last year pointed out many libertarian minded conservatives move more in the direction of free trade and trump is pulling back a bit and focusing on our National Priority is. The question of spending is another interesting one. Both trump and break them i reae deficits rise during the presidency and that is partly because the spending is has increased and with Ronald Reagan, the situation was similar. They both increased defense spending and could not persuade democrats to decrease the other forms of discretionary domestic spending so you have a widening deficit. You have this problem. Trump was asked about it a few weeks ago and he said we are going to grow our way out of it and i think i was reagans approach as well, Economic Growth would create more government revenue that would then cover the shortfall. I dont know that that is necessarily going to work but one thing that is clear now is that the primary problem is that even the domestic discretionary spending. The primary challenge are the mandatory items. Its a huge chunk of the budget and it keeps growing and the air hes gonhe has gone against the consensus and a conservative world. Many like paul ryan and so forth were talking about reforming entitlement in Social Security and medicare and trump came in right from the beginning it is that im not doing any of that. We are not going to do that and he continues to say we are not going to do that. The democrats alleged that he is going to cut payroll taxes and endanger Social Security. Thats somehow not really working with trump. He is coming at it from a populist angle and i think that he just realizes our belief that republicans have lost the argument on this because whether they are right or wrong about reforming entitlements the public doesnt like to hear about any changes to Social Security and medicare. The only time that it worked as reagan and tip oneill in the 1980s when they agreed to raise the retirement age. I think thats a valid criticism to say trump has not tackled this issue even though he promised to do so. Democrats are not going to tackle it because you dont see a plan telling you what these things are going to cost. One of the advisors is a proponent of alternative monetary theory which essentially says about this stuff matters. By spending deficits only is a more conservative position that from a traditionally but from a traditionally conservative position i think the valid criticism remains one of the enduring puzzles of the american democracy is something we havent figured out just yet. Host the 2016 president ial election through the whole political journalists and commentators for a loop and not just of every vote that surprised everyone i think possibly donald trump himself was surprised at the result, but related to that and the fact that he won in the primaries and the fact Bernie Sanders was so competitive in the long shot, we didnt expect some of them calling themselves the pathetic socialists it was going to be Something Like we overrated the importance of the Public Policy positions and Consumer Choices of the electorate. But what did you learn in 2016 in hell have you applied that indoor coverage and how does that reflect what is in your path . Path . Guest that is a great question. I think what i learned in 2016 was not what journalists think is outlandish doesnt make it so the first time you made a National Speech and the National Media started focusing on him i think when he had secured the nomination, the reaction of the media was my goodness this man is not this is a stream of consciousness and a ramble for an hour what is he talking about. He was speaking to the audience it was a kind of intimate relationship he had with the audience. He was having a conversation with them and giving most of the talking but there is a call and response for most of us of where the audience is and he goes off on a tangent and brings people into the way of establishing intimacy with the audience. That was one example. Other things that seem outlandish, trump is pardoning susan b. Anthon anthony, hecomme announces on the anniversary of the 19th amendment. She has been pardoned shes also been dead for quite a while. Youre not supposed to do that. Why do you pardoning dead people, and also the pardoned jack johnson, black heavyweight fighter that was wrongly prosecuted for violating the segregationist laws. The trump pardoned him and it has no effect on jack johnson for susan b. Anthony at least not one that we can measure. But he goes outside the rules and the message hes sending to people is often more important than the question of whether it is realistic to do or say what hes doing into the message hes sending to the female voters and ensure this is the reason he did it is that he is defending the interests and he values the history of women and suffrage. Its not the first time hes mentioned it. He mentioned it last july 4 as well with a lot of attention to the fourth of july speech on the mall. What seems strange and outlandish to political observers come abundance may not always be that way and it depends how its being interpreted. It is how appealing than some of these things really are. I think for example, conservatives underestimate the appeal of socialized medicine. We talk about it and its very abstract to us but the idea of having a safety net for emergencies is extremely compelling and conservatives even going back to Ronald Reagan understood this. But theyve struggled to put it in policy terms. Democrats havent come up with a good way of doing it, but they talk about it all the time. It really means they have established the idea of healthcare as a safety net for themselves which was a loss for conservatives and in joe biden is promising to raise taxes and all this sort of thing people may not be listening to the messages of the parties about whos going to turn the economy around and how well the stock market is doing. When you consider the job losses during coronavirus there Something Like 5 million that have lost their Health Insurance they were very worried about health care and the safety net. I think trump gets it but this is something you dont really hear talked about by many conservatives writers or pundits were even fox news moving towards the center it isnt really addressing the question of healthcare and again, something that sounds outlandish like socialized medicine, medicare for all. Why do you want to this but its got a compelling appeal because it is addressing the real needs. The message that candidates and when thestand when they support Something Like that is almost more important than whether you can do the policy or not. For those mistakes have been whether you come from a conservative or liberal background and that is the big lesson is things that sounds outlandish may not be in they might convey a message that is deeper than the nuts endquotes of the policy we talk about. In the book uss she ran the Worst Campaign in the primaries and now that she has been nominated as Vice President s, how does she fit into your thesis about democrats moving in a socialist direction . Guest i think she reinforces the idea and is very far to the left in terms of policy. The fourth most liberal senator shes the most liberal senator shes been described by the New York Times as a pragmatic moderate. If you discredit in policy terms reaching out to the other side for the mutually vexing problems shes a leftwing politician. I think thats what made her a feeling on paper and one of the reasons i thought she would actually be the nominee was she checks all the boxes. Its almost like she was manufactured to be a democratic candidate. I dont mean to take away her actual achievement. She ran a good ad campaign in the primary and yes it is the First Container in history that you dont take anything away from somebody that rises to this level and she is not only accomplished at all three levels of government, local, state and national. Shes held office in all three at least. She also can speak to the questions of identity politics that are very important to democrats. She is black, a firstgeneration immigrant, email and those are three very important areas. Shes also been imported to the cause of marriage. But an act of omission that she checks all those boxes. That was a more question of hypocrisy. It wasnt a cheap demand aggressive prosecutor but she does prosecuting marijuana offenders and laughing about smoking marijuana herself. As the debate could they charge that spoke to the things people have thought in a sense machiavelli and that is the sense in which shes pragmatic. She will do or say anything to move herself ahead. I do think she is a benefit to the ticket and brings a lot of strength that compensates for joe bidens weakness. I dont think shes a very compelling candidate for Vice President. In other words, shes good for the number of votes she will bring in but i dont think she brings in any sort of governing expertise or experience. Her experiences have largely been negative and i think she has a long way to go before she can convince the country that she is ready to run the country and ready to govern. The way that many people on the left actually see her is the Party Establishment and there is some truth to that. She cultivated the Donor Network and won a senate seat partly because obama and the democratic establishment in San Francisco and washington came in very early and endorsed her theyve never elected a major statewide candidate even though they are crucial in terms of the votes they provide so they are kind of ready. And i do think that is who she is going to be as a candidate. She is essentially they are to remind the left that somebody shares the policy views and commitments. But to reassure the establishment that since she is a product of the obama endorsement and the Donor Network so she reinforces the idea that there is a push and pull. The establishment has gone woke that theyve been willing to accept a lot of the leftwing policies and positions as long as they can maintain control of the institution lets see if that happens. If they more so than the radicals. Guest i think that its an weekend. Its still there and very strong, but much less strong than it was and i think thats because 2016 really shattered the confidence of the democratic establishment. Hillary clinton was supposed to win and so much of the establishment was still controlled and is stil it is sth heavily influenced by the Clinton Network that i think when it was rendered obsolete at least for a few years by donald trump is lost control of the policy agenda and the Bernie Sanders left understood why trump one better than the centerleft. Bernie sanders and people like Michael Moore understood trump was appealing right to the heart of the Democratic Party constituency and working class voters and trade and immigration. But now the Democratic Party and democratithe democratic socialie Bernie Sanders dont agree but it is an issue they recognize in the past. Bernie sanders has been tougher precisely because unionized workers at one point were not very much against having illegal immigration for americans for jobs. So trump was talking to the concerns where Bernie Sanders have been particularly strong. Bernie sanders wing of the Democratic Party was not as surprised by trumps victory in fact there is some evidence supporters, 10 or so crossed over to vote for trump and they were the organizers of the socalled resistance. So the left was organized and ready to go and for that reason they were able to set up the. The establishment was chasing the conspiracy theories and looking for some explanation as to why this completely shocking events that happened. The establishment decided if thats where the action was diverted to try to get a piece of it and that is where you see millions of dollars pouring into groups like indivisible. Thats where you see Bernie Sanders and others really building a kind of presence. All these people coming in with money and climbing in i think partly because they saw before r the action was and partly to control them. The worry is wall street is happy with this election not because shes gotten particularly pro war policies but because she is viable if they have an influence because theyve donated. So i think the left has stolen the agenda partly by being more organized and sensible about what it meant. Bernie sanders and the left didnt like it but they recognized it was legitimate and they would have to the establishment catch up ideologically they are still paying the bill. A great extent with all the power of the establishment right before super tuesday. They were able to marshal all of these Democratic Candidates behind joe biden who at one point seemed like the least likely. I thought, personally, once the primaries started, the most dangerous candidate to defeat global trump was any klobuchar because she has very liberal positions temperamentally is very moderate and very, very competent on a debate stage. And i think the contrast would have been so jarring and she would have been so refreshing in a sense because she is different and midwestern and comes from a state that hes competing to win for the partthe party decided th july the because of the risk and any klobuchar peaked a little too late because of the impeachment of picture on the sidelines and out of iowa for 60. I do think the establishment is still strong. We will see how it unfolded whether democrats win or lose in november is going to be the story of the struggle that continues the next four to eight years. Host you were part of the Tea Party Movement which was a rose kind of in response to barack obama and washington policy after the financial crisis of both parties even. The tea party with this kind of dissipated or changed over time. It doesnt have the same energy or focus necessarily. What could the crystal ball in the next couple of minutes if left, imagine the joe Biden Victory that they were warning about a dusty place, what happens to Republican Party . Doesnt dig into trump and say that was the way to go . How does the opposition look like giving if your scenario plays out . Guest i think two things will happen. The Trump Movement will provide the core of the opposition and i think thats because there will be a sense in which the victor they could only come about through illegitimate means and you are going to see that criticism given the controversy over the vote by mail and given various other things. I have a whole list of things that. Its on his particular ideas. Its to adopt his never say die no holds barred Strategy Tactics i think that youll see a tougher for ready to brawl Republican Party and further that appeals to enough voters i dont know. The other thing that might happen is this is rather sobering. You might see a withdrawal not just politically but economically and culturally by many others as well because the canceled culture will have one. If they went after democrats supported the protests that in many cases were violent and after they lend their support to the removal of statues and rewriting of history and so forth and i think there are Many Americans who will simply decided it was not worth it or isnt it. Theres too much of a risk to start a business when your store windows are going to be smashed. Its too much of a risk to invest in schooling for the inner city if when people come out of these neighborhoods they feel resentment. I think youll see a resentment if the culture is seemed to have one and i kno know that not evey democrat agrees so i dont want to tarnish anybody but the fact that the party has since distanced itself after the first night we heard nothing about the victims of the violence or anything like that, very little in the way of the support beliefs. There is something thats going to be shaken in the body politic that is going to be very hard to restore. I think that hurts republicans more because it feels like they are targets of that more than democrats do but its going to hurt everybody in the industry having an election that is won by the opposition. Host the book is read nnovember and the author is joel pollak. Tell people where they can find you. Guest you can find me at breightbart. Com where an editor at large and you can find me at twitter that joelpollak. It has been a great opportunity. Host thank you everyone for tuning in. This program is available as a podcast. All after words programs can be viewed on the website at booktv. Org. Is the bible a political book . I dont think of it that way. Certainly has instruction of Civic Affairs and politics and society but for me