About how great i am, it just happens to me because i have that experience of imagining myself in the other persons position so much more im going to move on to audience questions. Peggy asks the opposite of what my question was. I do you feel like your writing was affected your drinking when you were drinking . What was it that you were held back from or . Guest this is something i talk about in another chapter about writing a column and thinking its the greatest thing in the world, sitting and knocking back a few or whatever and waking up in the morning and looking at it and thinkingthis makes no sense. Or this isnt accurate. So theres just that very baselevel of its just not as good writing and its not Good Journalism to be drunk. You cant write as well. And i think i really limited my ambition. I think the idea of writing a book would have been impossible. I told myself a story about myself which is that i cant write more than 500 words because i dont have that kind of Attention Span or im not literary or i just dont have these capabilities. Im not smart enough. I dont have focus. There were so many stories thatwere partly true. I didnt have the focus i also have the capability inside me somewhere. I just thought im such a piece of crap that no one wants to read anything more than pithy little items from me and i really believe that. Host its interesting because you do come from an industry thats soaked in alcohol so do you think a lot of herbalists are maybe operating with some of that . Thats an interesting question and ive never asked that question of another journalist. That would be a little invasive but it wouldnt surprise me because i think a lot of journalists, i do know that you tell stories about yourself on what industry youre in and what youve done and i also think if you are somebody whos barely hanging on because your drinking every night, because youre hung over in the morning, because youre trying to get the facts straight in your story and make it make sense, youre not going to be thinking of more ambitious things necessarily. It isthis gender breakdown thing to. Im thinking of women. Maybe guys are like imgoing to write the next Great American novel. Perhaps that happens among people who think of themselves differently but i can totally see that just because that was so much my experience of feeling like im not good at this, im lucky im here and these people are full into thinking i knowwhat im doing. Thats what i believe. I mean, everybody has a syndrome but it was something else. Host im going to jump to the next audience question from elizabeth, a question asked from my own heart. What were the years to get over the regret of theyears lost when you were drinking . Guest i dont feel that i lost the time. This is perhaps something of a positive spin on what those years were like. I mean, they were terrible but the fact is i wouldnt be where i am now had not gone that way. So i dont have any way of knowing what it would have been like had i not lost those 10 years or so. I find that regret or shame is a toxic emotion and but its harder to expunge in a way because it is true. You look back at that time and you think my god, i could have done this this and this. An example ive heard and this comports with my own age although i never wanted to have kids. I could have had kids or people who lost their kids and didnt get that time with them growing up. I think you have to, the best way to get through that regret is the same way that you get through shame with addiction and i think its talking about it and its finding out how if theres a way to make amends to the people that you hurt. And it doesnt mean apologizing, it means saying is there anything i can do now that would be helpful to you and not dictating what it is you think you should do for them but just asking. And for me that helps expunge the regret and i also just have this strong belief that you are you who you are because of everything youve been through. So i dont know what i would have been like but i do know that i probably would spend a lot longer thinking that i was my job and telling myself stories that were true as it turns out. For example, i lost my job as i mentioned and i thought it was the worst thing that could ever happen to me but it actually was one of the best things that could happen to me which is crazy to hear coming out of my mouth now given the way i felt when it happened. I was like trust. So yes, it also just takes time and perspective. Host its interesting that the answer to these both these sticky emotions, i dont know if their emotions, whatever. Shame and regret that your answer to both is the same which has to do with amends which takes the emphasis off the self to. Guest i think that a lot of recovery and it just a lot of recovery work and recovery talk is about taking the emphasis off yourself and figuring out what you can do for other people which is honestly a great way to recover from all kinds of things, not just addiction. Host i think its a big theme for all of us to talk about, interesting to think aboutamends in the context. Do you feel like taking one more question . Lets do that. Theres a couple more on here, when we try to take two more and wrap it up the first one is another great question from jean. What are your thoughts about alcohol industrys influence on drinking and our culture and the lack of regulatory limits or Public Health outreach on drinking related issues. Guest thats a great question. I think part of the reason we dont talk about relapse and the reason we dont talk about alcohol addiction is because the industry is just pernicious in every single aspect oflife. I have a pile of magazines over here and everyone is full of liquor ads and recipes for drinks and things like that. Everywhere you walk into the Grocery Store there just screaming in your face. I just think it is, i would policy wise like to see both more regulation on alcohol advertisement and higher taxes on alcohol because it does in fact reduce the amount that people drink. And i dont know that were ever going to get to a point where we think of, its funny because we have these drugs that we make which are to completely illegal like heroin and there are drugs we make extra legal like youre really supposed to be consuming them and if you dont theres something wrong with you like alcohol. And it gets to be cigarettes as well and we can make a cultural shift. I mean, it is possible that were not had that direction right now especially in quarantinewhere the message is to havehappy hour at 4 00 somewhere. Its 11 00 in the morning somewhere. People just i think feel, and i have picked up on this myself even as a sober person is tremendous pressure to turn to drinking as this is the one way you can have fun at least while youre stuck inside. Host i did want to bring that up. You mentioned this idea of reservation like people having certain reasons that they get to relapse and i feel like in this moment in covid theres possibly people coming up with justified relapse. Were surrounded with people talking on social media all the time about how people need to be drinking. And can you talk a little bit about how we use situations to justify our drinking. Guest i certainly did when i was drinking. Especially when i was still drinking publicly. Most of my drinking was pretty shameful and the private but i do think that there is a sense in which i was reading like an advice column the other day and i did a tweet about this. The lead question was somebody is having a dry wedding, how do i feel . And the answer was bringthe flask. Its just so everywhere. Its everywhere and i wish i could make it stop and just let people make their own choices about things because the fact is the only reason that we think that drinking is the way to get through things and cope with things instead of i dont know, running or another substance. We, whatever is because its just constantly pushed on us. Host it connects right back to deans question. You think that this idea that your freely drinking, that its your own choice, of course you are. Those are choices youre making but theres this trillion dollar industry making sure youre doing that and that you are subject to the capitalist force when choosing to drink. Guest we never choose our choices in a capitalistsystem. Its not possible. You can think you have free will all you want but theres still this and fall of capitalism overyour head at all times. Host and nowhere more than with your evening glass of wine. We will move on from there. One more question from the end and you can do with the questionwhat you like because its very openended. How long have you been clean, did you use other drugs, how long have you been writing so go where youd like with that and that will be our last question. Caller this is josh, i can hear you erica so if you want to keep going and answer and hopefully we can have claire reconnect. Host can you hear me . Yes claire, i can hear you, youre coming through fine but erica is going to go ahead and respond. Guest while we wait for claire to reconnect, i started drinking when i was about 13 and then i did a lot of other drugs then. It was the 90s, i was in high school. I did a lot of acid, ismoked weed. Pretty minor stuff in the scale of things and i didnt really drink until, heavily until i was in my 30s and i didnt really do a lot of other drugs either. I mean, drinking was really my main squeeze once i really started. And i have been sober for 5 and a half years. My sobriety date is february 4 2015. And i have been writing basically since forever. I started writing when i was, started writing professionally when i was about 18, 19 in college. I started taking internships back in the days when internships were things that you did not get. Technically, paid for. And ive just been doing it ever since. As an internist at the texas observer, started writing their and have been in all weeklies ever since. And then in 2009 went out completely on the Online Platforms and yeah. So gosh, how many years has that been . More than 20. Claire, do we have you back . Host kind of. Im going to step aside and let you to close this out because im giving out. Host erica, any final words . Guest just thank you so much for hosting this and im glad we were able to get past our technical difficulties sort of and thank you for everybodytuning in on youtube and broadcast and facebook. Host again, thank you everybody. Our apologies for starting late. Thank you again for tuning in this evening and a big thanks to erica and claire for being here. If you enjoyed this event you can find many more just like it on our website townhall seattle. Org and we hope youll consider making a donation to townhall as your support will allow us to continue having events like this one. If youre interested in preordering a copy of ericas book which will be out july 7, you can use the link on this live stream page to focus purchase through our friends at Elliott Bay Book company and thank you again for beinghere and we hope you have a great evening. Dv continues on cspan2, television for seriousreaders. Our guest author this evening is lisa selin davis. Shes originally from right here in Saratoga Springs and shes been a great friend to the boor