Transcripts For CSPAN2 Summer Series With William F. Buckley Jr. 20240712

Cspan nearly 40 times and over the next five hourswere going to share some of those programs with you. First up tonight in 1993, Mister Buckley sat down to discuss a collection of his essays from his book happy days are here again. Here he is on cspans Interview Program from 1993, book notes. On the cover of your new book it says reflections of a libertarian journalist. Do you always call yourself a libertarian western mark. Off and on. As i of course do, its something called the movement was encouraged by me in National Review during the late 50s and the idea was to put out to the straight libertarians and conservatives how much they had in common and how effective this symbiosis would be between them. So from time to time i stressed the fact that every now and then that im a libertarian and in most of what i write theres a certain amount of it that is does not augment or diminish human liberty. Did i remember you saying maybe when you ran for mayor of new york that this may not be you but as far as youre concerned youd just as soon throw the garbage out the window and let people pick it up and deal with it rather than having the government dealwith it . Know, the, your memory was an exchange i had with james baldwin. In which he was defending the littering of the streets on the grounds that it was a form of protest against the city so for not paying close enough attention and i said look , it is very helpful to use that as a means of protesting. Should i throw my garbage out in the street when john lindsay walks out since i dont think you make a good mayor . It was really just sort of a rhetorical just abouts they get the best i can give them. In various modes over the past eight years those are very eventful years as they cover the collapse of the soviet union. A covered the death of some very important people. Plus a certain number of personal episodes. But what i do assisted by my sister who serves as the editor was to attempt to divide into appropriate sections of the moons in which i write carl sagan and jesse jackson, teddy kennedy, rick taylor and so on. Then analyzing a specific problems that i hope assuredly, another section on commenting, a section on reflecting and then celebrating and appreciating areas people and a sports activity or to. So its a wideranging collection. Its my ninth and the rest have involved overseas so i hope this will be. Host to people read former columns when youput them in a compendium like this . Guest the operative word in your question is ordinarily and ordinarily people dont buy anything unless they are a part of a hard constituency read Robert Lublin can count the day after tomorrow on telling 4 and a half thousand copies of his new book but if a publisher brings out the ninth collection, that usually means people have bought the first day. Host whats this in numbers of books that youve written . Guest the 25th. Host of all thosebooks which sold the best . Guest the book that sold the best was the second of my for sailing boat called atlantic high and then the mystery books all came in somewhere between 75 and 100. Except for the last one which came out shortly after the end of the cold war and suffered, i was a casualty of the end of the cold war and then the others, every book ive written most of them have been on the bestseller list. Which ones did youenjoy the writing part of the most . This will annoy you but i really dont like to write. Its terribly hard work. That maybe one reason why i have managed to develop to write quickly. If i have the same kind of languorous leisure in writing as my younger brother as a or eudora whatley has that says my god, this is the day in which i write and i can answer your question with a certain hedonism. Eudora said to me i write three times a week and then i wake up in the morning the first question i consciously ask myself is is it a day in which i have to write a column and if i have to its a day i wake uphappy. Host do you then write for an end, what are you trying to do . Guest a lot of us do things for the act or pleasure of it. Even weeding your garden, the active pleasure seeing the roses in the grass, or practice your scales for the active pleasure of having to develop your technique. As eudora once put it to me i like to have written and thats a nice thing to have written in part as its so onerous. Other than the bignames, the Ronald Reagans and Richard Nixon , i think i know this but do you know which person you quoted the most or talk about the most in this book . Guest no i dont. Host what i surprise you if i said Whittaker Chambers. You obviously surprised me on the other hand imweighing what you said. Chambers during the period we were Close Friends which is about seven years wrote me and in fact he wrote me such beautiful letters that they were published as a book. And he kept saying things that were very arresting both in what he said and in the way that he said. As a matter fact a novel i have coming up next january one of the high points in it has to do with the discovery by young veterans of the afghan war in moscow. Of the description by Whittaker Chambers in one of his letters to me of the neurotic key, it was a group of young people who met silently in the czarist days and swore to give their lives over to the assassination of atyrant. So lenin saw those days but then discovered they were pretty dangerous because people could get the same idea as being applicable to lenin and therefore all trace of them was removed from soviet literature so you have to find out thats enormously important and a Dramatic Development inrussian history. What kind of an impact you have on you and when did you know him and let me grow in this or somebody was never heard him. Guest chambers was the Time Magazine Senior Editor who in sworn testimony named people he had known working as a secret intelligence agent for the soviet union. And one of those was out to yes. Theyre in sued the greatest ongoing division i guess in american cultural history on the impression of who was lying. The evidence was overwhelming that the person who was lying is out your hips but we became friends and actually a Senior Editor of the National Review so he came up very frequently and he died at a young age of a heart attack but he had an enormous impact when his book was written. They ran the first chapter which was a letter to his children. The things which he said when i left the soviet union, left the communist cause to join the cause of the west, i couldnt help but feeling perhaps i was leaving the winning side to join the losing side. So there was that great sense of melancholy and much of his writings. I was about to point out that the first chapter of his book in the saturday evening post that sold 500,000 more copies than normal. So he had a huge impact on everybody who read it and from that moment on he became something of an American Legend and probably still is. So i dont take any quotation of him is likely to bring on tedium in the reader. Host i saw a reference a couple of months ago to the fact that in august 1948 in that hearing that it was the first ever televised hearing. I didnt know that. I want to go back to that task you what impacts, Richard Nixonwas on the committee . That was the First Episode in nixons career. Gave him an enormous launch. Because the committee was a little bit dazzled by the firepower of the forces and they were about to pull away and say this was right and chambers was a liar. When nixon moved in, to mobilize the evidence and persuaded the Congressional Committee that his was the poverty line, not chambers. It was that that gave him the reputation that awarded him to receive in the senate two years after that the Vice President of theUnited States. Where you then . Guest he was Vice President in 1952 and i graduated in 1950 so but the hess chambers drama was a significant episode. When i was at school. Liberals tend to assume that this was correct because of his pedigree was so formidable. He had to go on to Johns Hopkins and he gone on to Harvard Law School and he had clerked with who was it . In the Supreme Court, the same as jerry shaw, liberal. And then dean actions in had sort of testified to the nobility of his character and all this time he was typing out secrets for the soviet union with his wife priscilla is. So it was a tremendous blow to the liberal establishment. This shining legacy of the new deal was in fact a traitor. Most people who identify with him years ago could see thats what he was, arthur injure for instance but some people are still hypnotized with the subject of comedy like the grassy knoll her son jfk area its more fun to believe it was a conspiracy buddy the conspiracy. Do you remember back in those years was influencing you the most . When you went to yale. I had a few professors who you probably wouldnt have heard of the wereinfluential. Ive always found it hard to answer a question the most because it seems to me that in retrospect, it is a kind of collage of people and its very hard to sort out what it was that influenced you in respect tothis particular thing. My colleagues of 25 years nationally was James Burnham who is probably the best known american strategists by training in philosophy, first in his class in princeton and he influenced me enormously i didnt meet him until the magazine began. What year to the magazine began western mark. 65. In the back of your book its the section in which its called appreciating. And a number of people that you write about are no longer alive. Let me pick a couple of these area some of them are alive andask you about them. Malcolm h, who was he . Guest malcolm was i probably have to say the best known british journalist up until 15 years ago. He was married to the niece of Beatrice Webb and he went to the soviet union as a committed youngsocialist , procommunist and he was there about one winter and wrote a devastating critique of life under stalin, this was in the early 30s. He still stayed on the socialist side of the world. Then during the war, he was very active and after the war he was the editor of punch magazine. One had to be sort of a humorist to do that. Meanwhile he was simultaneously editing the book section for esquire magazine but little by little he began in march that would turn out to be in ineluctably directional towards the masses. He became a christian and his perspective changed but not his eating powers so when he was talking about christ or the commandments or about our duty to one another he would manage to do so as i humorist. And under the circumstances it gave me kind of a list to his evangelism that was quite distinctive. I saw him believe it or not the aas society of newspaper editors in washington, and he was just the after dinner speaker and he ended up with a paragraph that embellished the idea of the meaning of historical death for him and had these pagans, so he became probably the most influential englishspeaking intellectual. Host how wellknown was he . Guest it was on firing line quite a lot of times. We became very close personal friends and in fact he and i once did a program in the vatican on the Sistine Chapel and he called me and said you know, i hate famous people. Ive known them all and they areall a disappointment but i want to meet the pope. He said you crank up your muscle and ill crack up my so he and david niven had an audience with the pop pope which was very amusing because the pope and been briefed on who we were. When he came to malcolm he looked at him with that sort of benign face. He said, you are radio. However often do you ask yourself what is the appropriate answer to the question you are radio . So he said i do have my voice on radio dated and said you were the great friend of my predecessor and david had probably never even heard of pope paul before. It quickly became plain that the pope thought we were visiting under basketball matters or something. Anyway, he was vastly amused by that episode. Host did he know whoyou are . Guest i thought he i tipped him off because had access to the Sistine Chapel for the first time in history and as a result of an intermediary who had gotten permission for us to use 48 hours to make our documentary though i thought i tipped him off and i said your holiness is going to be very hard for me to get used to having my private chapel at homewhen ive had access to yours. Thinking that would flash that but the mom singer showed up with a picture of the kagan and we said goodbye. After that the mother said to me, i want to do a program with you call why i am not a catholic. Though we did. And he called and said i want to do another series with you. I am a catholic. He had poked in the interval, he was a wonderful man, a great wit and a brilliant analyst. I want to ask you about a quote you put in your column and how often do you write with an ip after it, you often do that . Guest i do it a fair amount, ive been doing it for the national for yearsand years. I dont know how many ive done, maybe 100. Im not an obituary writer, thats not my profession. Host is there some data describe what it takes to get you to write aboutsomebodys obituary. Do youhave to like them . Guest or dislike them, one for the other or they have to have been a friend of the National Review or mine or some importance. When i wrote in my old journal when i assign them, i would write them when he asked me to and when i was ready to do so. As i did in the case of leverage and maybe im the only one here that has done the column. Host let me read his column and ask you if you agree read as an old man looking back on ones life one of the things that strikes you most forcibly is the only thing thats taught one anything is suffering. Not success, not happiness, not anything like it, the only thing that teaches one what life is about is the joy of understanding, the joy of coming into contact with what life signifies is suffering. Guest let me comment on that by saying two things. Number one, i understand that historical discipline that caused him to write that way. It is a lesson of joe, that job taught us. That suffering can be an doubling and in the case of malcolm muggeridge, he seemed to feel that temples sharply but it may have been, there was a certain sense in which is sort of gloom about the materialism of man and mans failure to be inspired by, to be inspired by that particular part of our patrimony that inspires caused him to feel that expiation. For instance he became a vegetarian and he didnt drink anybooze, any wine or anything. He didnt used to be that way but one had a sense he was taking some sort of pleasure from the mortification of the flesh and that, but that pleasure never affected his mood. John lennon in thinking about his days at National Review says was this one of the best things he did was to mark he said i had lunch with chambers which was like having brunch with the brothers there soft. It was incorrect as a of cameras the emanated melancholy. It is not incorrect to say that he felt the probability of his melancholy with muggeridge didnt. Muggeridge was a consistent entertainer. Without in any way getting in the way of his ownmessage. Do you feel people expect you to entertain them all the time . I think its a terrible sin to bore people. And im easily bored myself. I mean, im perfectly happy to admit if i attended a lecture by emmanuel cant i might very well go to sleep. But thats my fault, not his. So under the circumstances when i write i do make an effort to please the reader in the same way that a pianist at the dive, once to use courts that please the listener. If you sit down to play a musical repertoire and limit yourself to a predominant and a tonic, youre never going to give use it the kind of variety that makes it special. By the same token it seems to be if you deny yourself the hard work and at the same time the pleasure of using the language exploitative late, you shouldnt really be writing professionally. Host youve got a bunch of letters also in here, letters that have been sent to you. Mister buckley, this isfrom hamilton morgan. Regarding your firing line interview with Andrea Kissinger from a qualified tv professional objectively concerned american, number one. A matter in which you sit is rude. You remember this . Guest no. Host cant use it upright in an adult fashion and in single shots you appear tilted, into shots use it as if your guest as bo. 2, even in questioning you appear rude. You dont ask questions of a guest even one in with whose opinions you favor and your questions comein a long form of interrogation. You always come up with the personal insecurity of a long premise attempting to show what youknow. You answer him, his first name says no i cant think straight, congenital but when you get a letter like this first of all, guest what was my comment. Host most people dont talk about it out loud. If you think my questions are long try socrates. Three, of course i want to share what i know about the study, i spent three nights reading up about it the night before. Have you ever jumped out of a plane at midnight with a parachute with the mission of eliminating the guard at the end of the bridge . I havent either but if i did i would want detailed introductoryinstructions and on and on. Guest i take it more seriously than i remember having done so. Having brought the subject up which you just did. I dont usually appear on television dressed this way but i just finished a 2000 mile hike so i appreciate your missionnot to go unchanged and you gave it to me. The answer is we all have our idiosyncrasies but hes absolutely wrong on points 500 points six because i think going on that program for 29 years. I have one complaint in those 29 years from my guests was that i didnt get them all the time i wanted to say it in the way they wanted what they wanted to say no thats not bad. Number two on the matterof introducing the guests , since i often have people for not widely known, philosophers or poets or whatever, i feel an obligation to acquaint the listener with them. And if you take a couple minutes to do that i dont think thats inordinate especially back when the program was one hour. Host when you get a letter like this what your first reaction . Do yousmile . Guest the first thing is this a letter i should published in National Review where i how have a problem notes on the side. They are letters directed to me most commonly which are they instructed or bellicose or interesting or whatever way. And respect the one you just read me, i wanted to tell this guy a couple of things. I suggest for my reader the fact that some people react this way. With that kind of hostility. Everything in my different comportment. Host this was the editor of the Baltimore Sun. Did your sister picked all these are self . Guest she nominated them and i okayed them. Host you say and your commenting on what the Baltimore Sun said in an editorial about their you. In any rate youre talking to the Baltimore SundayWilliam F Buckley whose elegant arrogance , first ofall you think you have elegant arrogance . Guest this is a question for them. Host affectations of a british accent has won him fame and fortune. Guest thats kind of dumb because of the people who with a fake british accent dont have fame and fortune, do they . Host you go on to say your arrogance and affectation are being separate modifiers and they require the use of a pro verb so youre shooting back at the editor. He lists some stuff earlier than that but i want to ask you when people write you and talk about the tilt and your presence on the setor your socalled affectation of a british accent. You know that the way you look to people . Guest in this book insome ways i said look , spanish was the only language i spoke and then i of course spoke french and then at age 7 i was in london and thats when i learned english forthe first time. You tell me, so its , nobody was british and i have a british accent but people say where are you from and i say im from connecticut and they say maybe thats how they speak in connecticut. But theres nothing cultivated my accident. Host what are you doing in all those places . Guest my father was in the oil business and he had large families so he was bilingual himself and he had a family staff we spoke french or spanish. Host how many brothers and sisters city have. Guest 10. Host how many are alive. Guest six. Host he was a federal judge. Guest he was beaten in 76. Host you ran for mayor ones and lost, do you wish you had one . Guest no, i didnt run taking that i would win. I ran under the conservative label which happened to be the most i got was one and a half percent so i got 13 percent. My joke made for the benefit of people who want to know why i done so poorly if you go to new york getting 18 percent dangerously close to winning so if i were to win again my Campaign Slogan would be voting by invitation only. Host whats your life like today . Youre no longer running the National Review. Caller im no longer the editor of the National Review but im president of the board and the owner and i rejoice every day that Donald Sullivan is such a brilliant editor. I have a book about what youre discussing, a novel coming out in january andill write another one in switzerland. Of these coming out in the 40th anniversary of playboy and one in the 60th anniversary of esquire and im reviewing a 1600 page travel book henry james for the New York Times so i keep busy. Host where do you live after mark. Guest stanford connecticut. Guest where you spend most of your time. Guest on boats and traveling around but my wife left me to my book writing in february and march. Host how long you planto be at firing line . Guest i dont plan not to do it. So presumably it will continue to go all on as long as it serves a purpose. Host does the fact that firing line is on a Public Television network taxes is supported other you in relation to yourpolitics . Guest know because i came to terms very early with proposition that a minority in a democracy lives by the rules of the society and even if i want see the post office privatize, im not going to protest it by not using the facilities of the post office. On this i agree 100 percent with milton friedman. And as recently as a few years, as a few months ago he wrote a letter to the National Review agreement with the position i took against a former editor of National Review hadnt wanted to save Social Security because he was opposed to the Social Security law and his answer was no, Social Security wasnt voted in, continue to criticize that aspect of it that you think is wrong, how its run but to say to participate in it is a failure to live by the verdict of a majority which dominates a republican which you are a participant and whose rules you agree to abide by unless they become tyrannical. Host as National Review ever made any money . Guest no, i dont know of any journal of opinion that ever made money. Perhaps with the exception of the House Organization with the progressive systems of america which is a traveling outfit design Henry Wallace president ofthe United States. There was an opinion not to make money, they were doing better than ever before. Host how did you keep it going that . Guest through an annual fund. Host back to the back of the book, william sean. This is a column january 18, 1993. It was i assume public probably published in National Review who was william sean . William sean became the editor of the new yorker in 1953. Right after mister ross died and he wrote his editor for about 35 or 35 years up until three or four years ago. He was a man of spectacular talent and of very idiosyncraticpersonal matters. He was terrifyingly shy and a very reclusive, enormously well organized and when i sent a manuscript of a book in which i simply recounted what i had done during the week of that year and he accepted it, i couldnt believe it because he was a conservative and the new yorker is pretty liberal. Host what year was this . 1970. I sent him a second book and he accepted it and then of fifth book so that i had this extraordinary hospitality by this extraordinary man. About once a year he had assigned himself a job of editing line by line of had been accepted by the new yorker and spoke to me on his personal direction. For the first of these books which meant having lunch with him. Having lunch with william sean was the next thing to a declaration. Its because he was getting away with his privacy and he was very genial, he wouldnt think of calling me by my first name but it was an enormous experience because of the care and love he devoted to every single sentence. He once said to me i really dont think that you know the properties of the problem. Its enormously amusing and its true, he took liberties with the use of the, of which every now and then but he would never publish anything except after your approval of exactly where it appeared. My association with him was wonderful and then when he retired as i recount in his obituary i thought now hes no longer the man who sort of in chargeof my literary fortune. Should i ask him to lunch. I would never ask an editor to lunch so i did it and we had a lunch, then i remember a couple of years go by and i said that i asked him for lunch again. The arguments against doing it are respect his privacy. The arguments for doing it is that i might at one time have given the impression that i wasdischarging obligation. And i can go ahead and rusty so i did it. And he accepted but didnt make a date. And then i received the day that he died a letter that hed written the day before making references to a couple ofbooks. So he was an unusual man who had an enormous influence on american letters and a great number of people who like john updike who he discovered. He said he would call up months in advance with your secretary and check to make sure when youre trying to get a date set he said we better do that offa couple months from now at the end . He loved to talk to your secretary as a student speaking with you and he would always be by his standards in formal with the secretary. But he would say i would like very much to have lunch with Mister Buckley and i will call back and suggest, that kind of stuff and he wasnt at all shy abouttalking with the secretary. Host you have attribute in the back here under the appreciating section to nancy and Ronald Reagan and at some point i think i remember you writing about their dancing together. Do you remember that . That was obese i did for vanity fair. They ran it on the cover, a picture. I got an interview with the reagans. Tina brown and the interviewer, this is in the private course of the white house, it had only been a couple years said you can send to danforths meaning for the photographer and instantly he said of course. So the music went on and they started dancing and the photographer took his pictures he had 15 seconds do it but they kept on dancing. Vanity fair is used to situations like that for the president of the United States and his wife, dancing and it just exchanged a commitment to marry eachother. Because thats where they are and nobody who has seen closeup thinks its phony. It isnt phony. Its a case of perpetual abiding devotion. Host another and im looking at underline, you mentioned earlier the name that i saw the most often was that the chambers and its been that piece where you say the last time i heard the legend of philemon and about this. And it seriously was Whittaker Chambers book witness, chambers was given the melodrama of those who knew him and his wife esther never doubted it was so between them. Thats a beautiful story, isnt it. Will have to go to the greek god, dressed like a beggar. Appears in this humble little shed where this old couple are looking with some longing at the little porridge they have saved to eat that night and he says can you have something to eat. Not hesitation, they take half of it and give it to him. Whereupon having tested there capacities for charity, he transfigured himself and ac he is a resplendentgod. And Whittaker Chambers raises his dishes which is the Great Imperial staff and says tell me what one wish you desire. And they stand out the wish that they wish to die at the same time. No one wants to outlive the other. So with his busiest to them on the head and suddenly transformed into two trees. Which nestle together in the reefs and leave the impression of a continuing perpetual symbolism of a tender and beautiful love. Its a beautiful story really. Teddy white. Guest teddy white once said to me you know, im probably the most expensive journalist inamerica. And i said teddy, thats terrific. He said you know, i dont like to both what is probably true. Its about 10 or 15 years ago and i think it was probably correct. He was the most sought after journalists and for several reasons, one it was a terrific writer. Second he was a terribly industrious reporter. He knew everybody, but he also had a capacity to make you talk to him and say things that probably you werent really predisposed to tell him and yet he had an extraordinary quality, bob woodward at thesame gift. But anyway, teddy was tapped by the magazine to do a piece on john lindsay when he was running for mayor which required a piece alsoon me. At the same time that i was running for mayor area and so he came to see me and i said something pleasant to him and he said First Business we will become friends later. And we became very good friends and in fact we both followed next into china area we were two of the journalists went to china in 1972 and spent a lot of time together and he and i and of few other friends met seven times a year for lunch so he was a dear wonderful talented human being. He came from a very poor jewish ghetto in boston which he likes to write about. Sort of worked his way through harvard but became a psychologist and was entranced by maus a tongue for a while. Something a little bit of a fellow traveler on the chinese question. Saw the light of day a few years later. It was very very high up in the organization and Close Friends with henry luce but then they had an ideological parting of the ways so he had a very vivid, wonderful adoptive life. Host what do you mean by fellow traveler . He tended to think that everything now say tongue came up with was probably correct. Im talking about the late 30s and early 40s during the period when Chang Kaishek was weathering on the vine and there was a lot of corruption, but his hospitality to the Maoist Movement alienated henry luce who was fervently on the other side and cause that resignation. Host where you to seeing you play bach at the phoenix symphony and writing about half but in this depreciating section, you have a problem is beethoven a monument, whats that all about . Thats a very interesting point area adam smith said that the state can legitimately use certain things and those are a very short list. It can look after the common defense. And it can be a custodian of monuments. So i ask myself the question, does authority of adam smith attached to a state enterprise that takes dead musicians and makes their musicavailable . It is simply a marvelous amenity so i was trying to, i was trying to manipulate conservative orthodoxy in such a way as to suggest that the monument need not only be something chiseled in marble city in the middle of a park but might also be keeping alive a musician and providing the wonderful amenity of access to them but cheaply. Of all the things you do in the public speak, interview on television, being interviewed, writing books, writing columns, what is the, what brings the most fun and joy to you and what is most difficult . The most and easiest is sailing. I sail a lot and ive done it since i was 13 years old and to me its a marvelous, marvelous form of recreation but its i used to ride a lot when i was a boy but in terms of what is most difficult there is nothing for me difficult as trying to amass a piece of music and i have very bad fingers and they dont behave well and there is sufficiently disciplined. So the more Public Policy area like the things like, would you rather be interviewed or would you rather do the interviewing . I think it depends on the person. Sometimes one has a gift whom one feels ought to have on because he is onto something important that we want to talk about but he might be a boring human being and after a while you sort of hope its over but by contrast with some people for instance, Howard Mcmillan at the end of 42 minutes he said, i s say, are you through yet . [laughter] [inaudible] so that was the sheer joy so it depends on the person and being interviewed by someone who does not follow what you are saying is hell. You feel youve explained something in the next question absolutely establishes that have not the remotest idea of what youve said or if they heard it, they didnt understand it and that hurts. Sometimes they ask, mr. Buckley, they ask question number one do you give a reply but it is a reply that takes you through act ii and not act iii of the exchange but then they dont know enough to redo that and that shows theres a discontinuity there that makes the whole thing terribly abrupt and unsatisfied. Did you have anyone ever get up and walk off the set . No, no, unless someone engages in a profanity or, as a novelist i could write a situation in which my guy would walk off a set of people would applaud him for doing so but ive never walked into that situation. What year was it that you and [inaudible] slugged it out on the today show . Yet, we did it in 1972 and in 1976. As i remember, it was few years have passed but you really got at each other. In 1972 we had 25 minutes and in 25 minutes you can get something done but by 1976 all the formants in the morning news shows had changed and have more than seven minutes you had to have a meeting with the board of directors so in seven minutes neither of us could unwind and, you know, our specialty is not the Johnny Carson job but something to the extent that it has a point that might require a minute of analytical overture and both of us agreed that we simply did not work attempting to exchange views in seven minutes. We had to do it again. Was a ever personal . Remember you were saying pretty strong strong things get, yeah, he and i almost arrived at a mutual covenant but because we were close personal friends we were under no circumstances going to make that friendship to mitigate the harshness that we feel are those positions and if we had been president of the United States we be a soviet republic which is absolutely correct and he says that is a complementary thing. Some conservatives criticized you for learning in two different worlds and [inaudible] in his book talks about a dinner in new york with you in which they criticize you for being a powell and you have lunch with them and friends at the New York Times and undoubtedly you observe these criticism so what do you think of those who criticize you for i think it is odd because you can pointedly with somebody and still have an anonymous bond so curiously this is absolutely routine and the editor of the new statesman in the nation might be the godfather of the new child of the editor of the tablet and there is nothing yet considered unusual about the member of the labor or conservative party and so i dont think that is unusual to have with whom you disagree and just as i dont spend my time talking politics. I have to talk politics three days ago and between now and then ive not said anything to my wife for because i dont think its that interesting that much. Other things to talk about and i could talk with kenny as i have and they never come up and we do this is a form of calisthenics. What do you talk about . Skiing. There was nothing we dont talk about. No problem at all and mostly he talks but he is so entertaining. Invited the flap of your book it said introduction by john leonard in the same john leonard we see on cbs on sunday morning . Yes. Isnt he a liberal . Very much so, as he confesses but when i saw the National View i saw [inaudible] which i had an essay and it was the john lennod to him would you like to take an robert the National Review and he said i take a job any time with anybody love just been kicked out of harvard he did marvelous work but then went to berkeley to be radicalized and hes a brilliant, brilliant writer. The acknowledgment at the beginning and were running out of time but you said im dented i merrily to the Senior Editor and who is missus bozell . She is my sister and a fulltime editor for gateway. This is random house so was she reviewing it as a friend . You say and here i would not feel [inaudible] chief reachers initial review i was paying her a compliment. Other than the novel coming out in january what is next in nonfiction . In nonfiction, well, im one way through book on the catholic religion which i suspended because they did not have enough time to do the reading i thought i had to do and whether i drink that up or not i dont know but it couple of ideas flirting about which i have not yet decided and they will write a book. Happy days we are here again is a flexions of a libertarian journalist, William F Buckley junior. Thank you very much. Thank you. Now every saturday evening this summer were taking the opportunity to open our archives and focus on a wellknown author. Tonight is a look at the late author columnist, public intellectual and television host, William F Buckley. The founder of the political magazine National Review and the author of a longrunning newspaper column he had a great sympathy for words and language according to his obituary in the New York Times when he donated his periodicals to Yell University they were 7 tons. Up next from 1996 mr. Buckley offers up his views on the proper uses an improper uses of the english language. [background noises] [applause] good evening everyone and welcome. We are delighted to have William F Buckley junior with us tonight to share his thoughts on the uses and abuses of the english language for the new book is called the right word and will be the subject of the conversation this evening between mr. Buckley and his longtime editor, sam volunteered after the program mr. Buckley will be happy to take a few of your questions and sign copies of your books. San vann has edited 22 of mr. Buckleys books and was for many years president and publisher, and or editor of double date and currently editor at large at random house and will now introduce your buckley, please thank you. The book is called buckley the right word and after i read the subtitle the evening is over. It is called about use abuses and about usage and style in speaking, fiction, diction and dictionaries with reviews and interviews the lexicon on latin and letters, eloquence and journalism and more. It should have been edited. [laughter] any lengthy introduction of buckley would be superfluous, super auditory, unnecessary and also dumb. Its a perfectly good biographical sketches of the book and if you dont know who he is, i dont know why you are here. Violating the iron rule of all those who introduced speakers by saying they need no introduction i will go right to the interview. Buckley, what in the world ever possessed you to do this book . What possessed me to do this book is committed to consummating it. Hes been saying things like this like we ought to do a book focused on language and how it can be stroked and used in writing introductions and obituaries and doing interviews so i find it so bored by his expectations on the subject and said go do that so he did. Whether he is happy he did, i dont know. Certainly i am happy with the result and it took an awful lot of time what he came up with is a book really sings the praise of language and one of its his autobiographies churchill said i dont believe in Corporal Punishment but i believe any child who doesnt appreciate the language should be flogged. [laughter] i have a son about who is not a problem but i do think that the beauty of the language is something about which there should be universal enthusiasm so bringing these off. You say in your book you write a lot and hate to write so what are we to make of this . I dont think that is so odd, is it . People who dig ditches dont enjoy digging ditches so to the extent that they are being paid by then isnt that good isnt it . Writing for some people including me can be excruciatingly painful because you are using your entire nervous apparatus and so if you have a column to write, essay or book review you are burning up a lot of stuff that we would prefer be idly sitting around and reading a nice book essays by the nice people and now i know this isnt universities and my dear friend george will told me once said when i wake up in the morning before im completely awake i ask myself the question is this a day in which i will have to write a column and if the answer is yes, i wake up happy. Mine is exactly the opposite reaction. It is a day when i wake up unhappy not until it is done but i dont understand why people should be surprised that if you base something that is painful to do you should be surprised that you acquired the skills of doing it quickly and if you dont like to change diapers, that doesnt make sense to do it quickly . I should think it would protect me a more intelligent conversation. [laughter] what would you rather do than write . What would you be doing with your time if you werent . Reading or writing is simply what some people do and that is what i do. I like to have written and that is analogy but it really isnt because he likes to sit down and to say i worked hard all afternoon and i wrote in my book and that gives you a retrospectively satisfaction so i think that do you suppose all painters like to paint . I had not even thought to ask that question or do they feel like after spending a hard days painting i feel good for having so do you think i dont think painters like to paint all of the time. Or maybe if i could paint what appeals to them but maybe not the portrait of the princess but ive painted a little bit and im terrible at it, but i absolutely love it and never occurred to me that maybe painters have some of the same sense of labor and the process of pains of its that writers have. So enlighten me on that one. Lets go on to the next one. I cant think of anything enlightening. You tried. Your use of arcane or difficult words has put you in the position of often having to defend yourself against this outrage. Explain yourself in less than 20 words. Well, i cant do that unless but allow me a few in the current National View has a review of my book by James Jackson kilpatrick and i think of him as a marvelous critic and a marvelous columnist and has written a terrific book on lingwood himself which i wrote the forward but he has this hundred years war against unusual words and i thought i would flatten him on the question by sneakily with my [inaudible] singling out unusual words hed used in the course of the year and theres a terrific demonstration and i thought he would call upon his news and surrender but he forgot about it so he would use an what he says is if the purpose of journalism is communication and to the extent that one risks a lack of full communication one isnt discharging ones response abilities to which when he first raised this point look, if i was writing the recipe for what to take when the rattlesnake bit you i would be aptly certain there is no ambiguity in the instructions i gave and i take a bottle, stick it in your mouth, too, swallow and nothing unusual there but, said i, if you got a newspaper, 2025 pages they ought to be little corners of it in which people can not only to communicate but to entertain and edify and sometimes that means using a slightly unusual word. Trying to communicate what you lose the sense and its hard to establish that a can think of anything written, in fact i know nothing was written here, about which someone said because that word exists but do not understand what youre saying. When one runs into a slightly unusual word either one gets it from the context of being or one recalls that one learned or one says i will look it up. I made the point in one of my exchanges and this was in the New York Times that every word that exists exists because there was what the congress would call a felt need for it. In other words, it did not serve the purpose so therefore this word just stated and found its way ultimately into the dictionary. If it found its way there and must have been in satisfaction of a curiosity for a word to sue that purpose. I for serrated kill patrick by saying if you valued the loneliest played on the piano and he plays an unusual cord, you dont say dont use an unusual cord in my presence but you say gee, thats kind of nice. I tried very hard not to use words simply for extra purposes but i hate to not use the word if i think that word is just right for the situation. Sometimes its a matter of written or i think ive had to, here is a useful trigger, shakespeare used 28000 words, 40 of the words he used be used only once. Thats quite extraordinary to contemplate that he found it was just right in and i was the only time is absolutely just right and in that sense i think a diversion to the music of the language satisfies appetites which ought not be discouraged if video times or they have said you may not use any word outside of the 11000 words that we authorize i think there would be resentment by readers who felt they werent allowed in on the music of language. Is the word pronounced erratic . That is interesting. Kilpatrick says it is okay to select a word for a rhythm and he told that there are some situations where use the word peaceful and some say why to do use our erratic of peaceful twitch i probably replied because it has that extra syllable and he thought that was okay. He understands the rhythmic requirements of language and doesnt deny you the synonyms for rhythmic purposes but the reason i found it odd that he said that is that it is an unusual word so why he should waive his antagonism to unusual words in that certain sense and not others i dont understand. [inaudible] [laughter] it surprises some people when they learn that english is not your first language or even your second, why is that . I was brought up in odd circumstances and there were ten children and the oldest five spoke french and the youngest five spanish and my father lived in mexico and by the time i was born we lived in paris and switzerland and he was bilingual and we spoke to each other in spanish and then when i went to school in france i learned Little French i remember but it wasnt until i was certain in london that i was exposed to english but its not that unusual but tons of people arrive at age six or seven never having spoken a word of english and have manifestly no problem with it. I sat yesterday at lunch with my students at yale and we had lunch and on my right is this lovely girl about whom about using sam and me i did with the sand siberian trip a couple years ago to moscow and i told them about dean lawson and tried to remember the words had been given to me that morning, 20 words that were useful, so i used the word [inaudible] for caviar so this nice woman came up with two marvelous looking clans and two and three hours later we opened they were full of the most awful blobby, pink sturgeon which but to the point of that particular story is she arrived at six speaking not one word of english and that is constantly fluent. [inaudible] called his friends and said i have to decide whether to ride in french or english and i guess im saying in america the assumption is that the native language is the only one at home and i dont think that is true but i think that especially when one is very young it is extremely easy to learn and become fluent in another language. You see traces of spanish. [laughter] when i think of conrad and buckley i think it was advantage in having english as a second language. You have written 11 novels ten of them about cia man and to do grow up to be a cia agent or a novelist . It is not easy the last couple of days to defend the c cia. Remember, about 30 years ago in the National Review as we began publishing we were defending the mission of the cia but not defending the cia and we ran a paragraph had read the attempt assassination of [inaudible] yesterday had all the earmarks of the cia operation and everyone in the room was killed at such and such [inaudible] and the cia has a screwed up terribly but i wrote a column for playboy a few years ago called wives by in which they asserted the importance of intelligence and if somebody threatens to blow up the next twa flight to rome it made sense to hope that somebodys would find out who they are and who had threatened and in terms of the cold war it was an extremely Important Mission but it is also true that they have been scandalized as a result of rigid aims in this last guy and i served in the cia for about nine runs and i was in mexico and i was a covert agent so that i wasnt not allowed to say what i did but i think i can say i did not kill anybody but after a while the covert agent somebody whose cover is so perfect that it is in reasonable to suspect that he is a cultural attache mobility thank you are cia but you might very well be doing normally and you just call in for the ad hoc assignment and then you can effectively which is for the word. Have you written many books, have you been reviewed many times and once or twice even fairly, this book contains examples of your own reviewing and isnt it dangerous for a novelist say to review novels by john updike and john gray or someone . Im not sure what your point is but am i hope my rule is about a rule ive been fastidiously correct and i always appraise a book whether i think it is good or bad. It makes no difference at all who wrote it and i think its an obligation and i havent a feeling that what sam is referring to is someone who review my book began by saying hes a right wing son of a [bleep] so lets get down to it he finished boring us with and that does, in fact, hurt. When joe client wrote his book i thought what a wonderful idea what a terrific idea and it wouldnt be easy to do and especially not easy to do if you have certain stylistic tics which are observable and someone comes in the room and says [inaudible] and you say hello, how are you doing and so there is the sense of im told it would be difficult to surmise and but here i think it is true that it is a barrier to be known for espousing particular views that are hated by the reviewer and asking that reviewer two read your book as if it was written by someone who did not have those reviews and [inaudible]. Reporter no, i would have suffered through this before. What is the most potent review you have ever written . I will say it in one sense. I think that is easy. I think about a year ago the chapel hill press, they sent me a book about a saline invention because i have written books about sailing and you get one of those every three weeks and i thought well, i will read a couple pages of it and i was absolutely overwhelmed and i cannot believe how terrific it was there was a father and a son who took a 25foot sailboat around cape horn and alternated they were it was so exquisitely written and so marvelously manifested that i simply could not so i sent an email here to a laker lady in the New York Times who i felt was low, 40 years that ive been associated and only twice i have asked to review a book and i would like to review this book and marginally she came back a day or two later and said okay, we hadnt planned to review it but we have 700 words so i sent them 2700 words and i thought well, tick, tick, tick, suspense and then three weeks later i was informed they would run all 27 words on the cover and it was the last cover reviewed that the New York Times ran and it did propel a book into the bestselling but this will be amusing. In my paradise this is a book about a father and his son traveled so its a bit pedestrian but i came to the last sentence in that paragraph and then they wrote a book which will be read with awe and delight 100 years from now but when they came back it was a version of changes and that hundred years from now was reduced to a year or two. [laughter] so i said that is or a they thought that was [inaudible] but okay. Another change remember was there was a little kitten on the book that had been given to the kid when he pulled out [inaudible] and that became his companion specially since his father was sailing with him time to time so he would recall reading these journals tiger and that was the name of the kitten and he said what are you doing and i said tiger, im writing in my journal and while i in it . While you are in it but you wont be in it if you key again on my federal tonight so the New York Times editor if you misbehave. [laughter] that took the ginger out of it. But we dont pi ss in the New York Times, i guess. [laughter] so i think it came out misbehave and im being too wordy. No, no, youre fine. He is my editor after all. In another minute will be too wordy but fine. I think it would be better if we brought the audience in at this point because i would like to hear your questions rather than mine. [inaudible question] yes, yes i have. [inaudible question] i had a problem with that book because it struck me that michael, i used to do quite we well, he was attempting to customize a physician which this is to libertarian so he ended up composing his own which is beautiful in his eyes but i dont think it was quite beautiful and the average person reading that book wasnt in that position of that political sentences and therefore however persuasive he was inside those paragraphs he didnt exactly, in my mind, with a communicable view of the cosmos and for that reason when he [inaudible] back there. One of the things i have grown to admire about you all over the years is your ability to draw a thought to its logical conclusion where when it starts to get scary or bigger than i can handle will pull back. How do you break through that barrier . Well, i try not to. Would you repeat the question . The woman asked, she admires his ability to carry a thought through to a logical conclusion but sometimes things go beyond that to the point where they are almost scary so how does he manage this problem . There is nothing scarier than [inaudible] because it tells you the consequences of behavior of eschatological can i say that . Yes, once. [laughter] in the book i am just finishing it is a book about the catholic faith and in it i recall my oldest sister but she was always entirely prepared for growing an eyeball combat and it wasnt an afternoon tea situation but a young faculty member had passed around the hors doeuvres and saw her messing around with something that didnt have meat on it friday and she said why dont you eat meat on friday and she said because of hell. So he was very amused by that. I suppose you believe in the a supplement that [inaudible] and i said not only do i believe and that but i believe the moment it happened the earth was this way. The consequences of the disciplines so to add to your question dont define the consequences sometimes scary so yes, absolutely. No scarier than the fact that if you come an alcoholic you run certain risks and if you cross the road with traffic you run certain risks and if you believe in gods word you run certain risks. I did not make up this but the model states if it is who says [inaudible] if it has consequences and must not remain unspoken or if it is unspoken its not a surprise. Was that too dense . No, no. What do you think of the current discourse like the recent president s campaign in which both parties spent millions to not say anything as far as i could tell . Modern politics everybody you run into says how awful they are. I would like to run into someone who says i thought it was terrific or i thought bill was terrific but who are they talking to and not my neighbor, not your neighbor so obviously some machine is turning out the archetypal who wants to hear medicaid referred to in just this way so you tune in and try to get exactly that pitch and when you find it it becomes terribly disappointment and the planet axiom of that position is that [inaudible] [inaudible] wrote the average american is a little above average and i like that. Its very different that you can never go broke overestimating the dash what . Intelligence. Intelligence of the american and if what you are seen as if youre good at level and what your political discourse is indeed. Yes, maam. What you think of the novelist . Im sorry i cant hear you. What you think of brian greene as novelist . The question is what do you think of grant greene as a novelist . And as a personality . Im sorry, i cant hear you. Do you like Graham Greene . Were you interested in his personality as a catholic converts and all of that . I never met Graham Greene. Im kind of glad i didnt because i dont think he was an easy man to like. I almost went out of my way for the same reasons but Graham Greene was a great tangle of passion, energy, polemical, he was polemical he aroused and i remember 15, 20 years ago when the single word of english language which you most dislike to which he replied america and you sort of celebrated castro and in some of his books and he had the interesting position in his aesthetic and political but on the one hand it kind of was a devotion to the Catholic Church to very complementary and he would say in effect, okay, if i understand gods commandments and then am disposed however irregularly to the bible i will make up for it by offending every other social protocol and i think he did that, i knew someone who knew him very well and he was a hard man to live with. I reviewed one of his books from the New York Times in a book oddly written enough during the war about which he forgot about and he rediscovered it ten, 15 years later and it was not a significant book of his but he wrote some great, great books. It must have violated your rules that no lawyers quoted as the right saying if you mentioned god in a gathering in new york it is met by silence but if you mentioned god a second time you never get invited back. [laughter] so you think cut it out. [laughter] [inaudible question] i think i will finish the question. Mostly, be guarded by idiomatic presumptions and the guy who comes back and says i had a wonderful time yesterday so cut it out or i got my mercedes yesterday directly from the factory and these people are effective but on the other hand to disdain the pronunciation of the word which belongs primarily to the word rather than to the customization is itself an act of ignorance or indifference and a girl i fell in love with, she was eight, i was seven and she told me that she had just come back and visited london and fell in love with pasqual and i said fell in love with well and since she was only eight it turned out it was Trafalgar Square and people who mangle pronunciations in that sense or as i say in different to a better way to handle it. [inaudible question] church oh . Oh. Churchill was such a theatrical person really. When i was at prep school i heard this speech that he gave to north africans to announce that the americans had landed there in 1943 and the orders to the british and american raiders were to repeat that and it was one minute long and it was sort of like monza, madame, [inaudible] [speaking in native tongue] and apparently some percentage of people in north africa surrendered. [laughter] but i learned later he was invited to have or to be dressed up to make himself sound more french. But given his comprehensive understanding of the whole intellectual challenge one half to assume this was intentional. He wanted to say your very much english and we understand this to be a globalist enterprise and we will try to come in and help you. It was much more effective than the speech they came outside to call and his marvelous mandarin french. And in france, thats okay . Mandarin as an orange. [laughter] the english carry that churchill idea to the extreme by drinking two wines, french wines called clarets and plunk which the french dont have as words. It destroys the whole culture. Yes, maam. Is there a writer who is a woman whose book you are just dying to review . Well, the reason i find that odd question is there is no book i am dying to review but the women writers are so triumphantly successful that i cant think of any woman writer whose book i wouldnt want to review because it was written by a woman. That is inconceivable to me but sam was talking earlier today about a woman writer whose book he is currently editing and he said that he would happily speaking about the writer Elizabeth Spencer who is writing a memoir and its quite wonderful. But i wont take your time to sell it here prettily back in the morning. [laughter] gentlemen in the back. About 30 years ago [inaudible question] [inaudible] [laughter] [applause] in 1965 mr. Lindsay was very popular with the republicans and he was a very eloquent and decisive member of the republican left and four, five years ago he left the republic and became a democrat which i urged him to do four years earlier but and then a beam was a machine democrat so i simply thought i felt the conservative alternative view of the municipal politics ought to be spoke about by somebody so i did it, it was inconceivable that i would win and i never thought of anyone in prospect but [inaudible] but at one point i thought new york was dangerously close to being successful and if i ever ran again my motto would be voting by invitation only. Is that that campaign he began thoroughly immortal when someone said, what will you do if you win and you said demand a recount . [laughter] my Campaign Manager did not like that. Questions. Where is our leader . Oh, sorry. [inaudible question] would i define the word genius. I will not define it attempting anything novel. I use the word a little loosely as someone with extraordinary gifts. I know there of our peers that say you mustnt use the word except maybe three times in a century but okay, shakespeare, but that doesnt make normal human beings and i understand that but if you are more generous in your taxonomy you can say well, you are not shakespeare but i will call you a genius because of the singularity of your talent so in a way i think [inaudible] is a genius but hes cuckoo in many respects but with words hes a genius. [inaudible question] she asked bill to comment on [inaudible]s genesis series. I did not see it so im sorry but i have a sense of bill that he is so ecumenical about his thought that hes terrible accurate in the last analysis to anticipate all the differences between [inaudible] and judeo christianity that the ecumenical impulse but you know if you applied it to music or to color all shades of color would be on sex and also all poetry but the reason some people arent baptist or arent confucius is because they find a singularity which makes it or super ordinate it over others. Im a catholic. To insist there really are those differences. They acknowledge the differences which is what i tried to do there was zero curiosity into this. Are we dismissed . [laughter] i think so. Thank you all for coming. [applause] [inaudible] [inaudible] exit toward the back please. You are watching book tv on cspan2, television for serious leaders. Tonight, we are spending the evening with the late author and columnist, william f. Buckley, jr. Founder of the National Review magazine, host of a Television Program and he also had a long running newspaper column. Up next, from 1997, mr. Buckley reflected on his face in his autobiography. [inaudible conversations] could you please be seated . [silence] good evening. Welcome to our Civic Affairs series. The president of the Womens National republican club. Our organization was founded by the 1921 to teach women the value of the ballot. Our founders built this historic townhouse in 1934. Today, the Womens National Rebellion Club continues its goal of serving political education and promoting good government. Chairman of our Civic Affairs Speaker Series will introduce our renowned author this evening. [applause] good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Tonight have the great privilege and honor to present to you our speaker, mr. William f. Buckley, jr. Renowned social commentator, journalist and all of 37 books that range from adventures to political commentary and awardwinning fiction. Buckley needs no introduction. Everyone in this room is familiar with his mega achiever. Weve read his articles and columns on the right, he founded and edited and he had a long running line saturday mornings. Tonight, mr. Buckley will speak to us about his latest and most personal book, and autobiography of faith. Heres what one critic has to say about mr. Buckleys latest book. My god is a splendid story about a modern day. Hes written a book with me, inspiring which is exactly what weve come to expect from him. Its an added blessing that he engages us with his where and in illuminating intelligence that has raised this country for fellow generations. Please welcome our speaker for tonight, mr. William f. Buckley, jr. [applause] [applause] thank you so much, madame chairman. I hate to take my few minutes of personal remarks that i have to do so, have a call in the throat so please be patient with me. The theme of tonights theme, i was running for mayor, theres a story of a man on park avenue, he cut his trousers and a fellow and immediately he throws himself to the ground, frustrated one year later, the courier, hes given a check for 1 million and he says i just want to tell you something, littleton, if i see you move one arm or leg anytime in your lifetime, you will spend the rest of the time in jail. He says if you want to follow me, ill tell you how to make it easier. Im going to be met by this United States line. Im going to get off their and we met in the cities, it takes me to lewis. [laughter] by invitation, i host to speak not on the Republican Party but we sometimes struggle to make the distinction. [laughter] my book near my god was the idea of a Publishing Company here in new york, i was asked almost ten years ago to undertake it. I took a couple of seasons, i was heavily mortgaged on the book. In 1992, a red my books switzerland, my wife and i would go for six or seven weeks. At the end of my writing season, i was dismayed because i found the subject was so fast and intimidating that i was afraid i couldnt do it justice. Before i came to new york, i turned to him and said sorry, im getting out. Then that little itch began, ugly most of you at some time in your life know what im talking about, that little of something you should have undertaken and you didnt and you think back on and it doesnt quite review that memory. When i sat down to attempt to find that aggravation of conscience, i wrote an introduction from which i quote, i recall a story of a juggler. In the familiar tale of the monk who sought to express our lady, having this witness and postulates, among whom there were those who sang like nightingales play their artists, our poets, they all do this to under ten in the streets, a juggler. In the dead of night, he makes his way through, across and into the chapel and up with his wooden mallet and goals. He does his act then. I found this devoted literature, the maker of the universe, muscular designs and expressively through the minds eye. In this particular enterprise, i undertook some of the questions that arrest christians, active christians and fellow traveling christians, i undertook a special look, a marvelous book while the forgotten called difficulties. What happened was 1933, at that time, as an explorer, a philosopher, a historian, he found himself up against a kind of a fellow traveling christian, he couldnt quite convince himself he ought to go all the way so he thought, this was a clear run because he so often activated this, he wrote a prominent young man in england, ronald knox had been on episcopal news hunt, he became a catholic along the line so he invited father knox to explore with him in public, how can human beings, how can the exercise free will, god is on this event. What was happening when christ told peter he would be betrayed three times the next morning, peter acknowledged free will when he proceeded to betray him. That was one of the difficulties in which the two magnificent essays, i revisited those and ask ourselves whether they are modern perspectives on which we have fresh views of these difficulties. In the opening is something you might have caught in the National Review but it was published, its an account of the year i spent in Public School in england, was 12 years old today my father drove me there, he noticed commotion at the airport so he told the driver to stop by and we saw an airplane coming back, bring peace, was october 1938. In any event, i speak about the experiences at the school and the sense in which the christian imagination is sometimes as it was in my case, not unusual since i am one of ten children with a devout father and christianity simply the way of life but as we understood it, in my book, go through my experiences in the army, or a few of them in my experience is at yale where i detected what i thought was hypocrisy, affirmation of the christian division and in many situations, the disparity of it. How does Christian Doctrine become christian since we dont have a Supreme Court . The answer, of course is in my church, done as a result of an evolution, wonderfully described by newman, wrote the chapter on my nephew, this is for five years ago, hed been there as a monk for 15 years and one doesnt quite know when is that one is beckoned to become a priest. Many want to become a priest so 100 of his friends and nephews and brothers and sisters were there. I gave him, the night he was admitted into the order of questioner, which i batted out on my wordprocessed, theres a visit which i did three or four years ago, the newest story is so dramatic that the implications are very often neglected. People simply dont quite understand what happened there. The miracles are very few and highly numbered. No enterprise is bound to the success is somebody as a cure. Those who have a cure are supposed to have a barrage of medications that cant possibly be survived by anyone whos taking anything but the visitor has an effect which is difficult to describe. Im reminded of the first article that says nothing is indescribable. It becomes a talented writer to describe this. I attempt to do so. There is material of various kinds in the book, to substantial chapters are devoted to exchanges between me and my form. My form consisting of seven rate scholars who are conquered in the christianity, questioning them about aspects of it in the hope that this will it will be more distinctive than my own and research their own explorations. I devote a little time, not a lot of time, to the problem of religion in america. Most conspicuously, the problem of tension in the Public Schools. Ordained by Supreme Court, the judgment of others in the Supreme Court justices misreads the first amendment. In order to transform the constitution to antireligious instrument, the subject is always in the news and in some way or another, you may have heard about the judge in alaba alabama. He is detected with a copy of the Ten Commandments hanging in his courtroom. They had been there for quite a while but nobody noticed. [laughter] the aclu went into a spin and he was appealing to have a court order there. It is complicated by governor james who said he would not be guilty, someone else would have to do it. On another front, take amends with the scholar. [laughter] young lady, 15 years old called Heather Crowley was a mischief in milwaukee. What she had done was seek subscriptions to the pledge, the pledge was called lets wait until then. She had 50 girls committed to this covenant which was to postpone the sexual experience until marriage. When it was detected that heather was also a member of the girls Christian League under the circumstances, the superintendent said this is a clear violation of the constitution and the activity would have to cease. At the time i was reflecting on it and it was too late to put it in my book but my reflection was everyone is familiar with Nancy Reagans just say no. What would happen, hypothetically, if nancy reagan were canonized . [laughter] would have been beyond the constitution to circulate the pledge . [laughter] what if it were discovered by incremental scroll at the last minute, moses contrast the Ten Commandments were really a personal invention the circumstances, would it be all right to hang the Ten Commandments as long as theres no religious ostracism . [laughter] s are questions in which whatever form i do talk a little bit about this in the book which is mostly not controversial except to the extent that religion often, they were a couple of concrete events recorded in the book, one of which i read now from the text, february 1980, a canadian approached me with the miliary to ask if i would undertake an experimental documentary, exact size and shape undecided. I would be left in my hands. The singular asset apart from a lot of money exclusive access to the capital on an appointed day one day a month for 48 hours. This privilege had never been extended in the never learned how it came to be the committee guarded it but it was to fashion to have our programs to be filled in this. I accepted the commission and called on malcolm and asked him if he would serve as my cohost. He readily agreed, it was obviously expected that i would participate in the extravaganza, only two weeks before the deadline, had a neighbor in switzerland and regularly vacationed with her family nearby and would spend occasional evenings at our hou house. Paid michelangelo in one movie, john the baptist and another. Moses in a third, the Ten Commandments. So enticed by the prospect of doing something in Michael Angelos primary shrine by the creation. A few days before we convened, i had a call and in the lifetime, i met most of the famous people who are almost uniformly, i find myself wishing i hadnt. [laughter] i think this is different. I wonder you can arrange an audience with him, suggested he use his resources and iqs mine. We were notified by written message, we had an appointment for private audience the following day at 1 00. We proceeded with the parables, the idea was to have monica read to parables. One was on the private some and then to ask of her mother in their own experience there was something that could rival that parable. To say whether it had a contemporary application or performed marvelously. When it was over, we prepared an appointment. It was wonderful. We were summoned to his private quarters for a 1 00 appointment. Wednesday was a day when during the morning, before any scheduled audience, he met in a room. You could see on the Television Screen where we set the use asked to be part of the public conferences. His still talking, making an address to the curiosities of the world in the assembly. Finally, he gave him his blessing we were asked to stand toward each other and he would arrive soon enough. When he was there. Smile still on his face, the next day he was hospitalized with influenza. In the auditorium, he worked tassel on his head and around his neck, loose gold necklace with a cross. Many were in attendance. He approached malcolm and extended his hand the words exchanged etched in my memory. The pope addressed him and yes, he said, you are radio. What answer can one give to the question . Malcolm smiled and managed to say yes, he had done some work on radio. The pope wished nothing further, smiled and after his hand, he said yes, you are very close to my predecessor. Davids eyes widened and said i have great admiration for you. So much for david, he turned and extended his hand to me. I had to act quickly, i thought. If there is any hope of rescuing our audience, clearly the machinery was tangled. [laughter] when bureaucracy authorized the private interview with the important work. One of his visitors that bureaucracy might have informed them, perhaps the most eloquent speaking christian life. Another was a renowned and loved after together with princess grace, both of whom had to leave, all woodwork unprecedented documentary with the catholic american journalist and influential conservative circles. It flashed through my mind a second bureaucracy have probably briefed the pope about an entirely different set of people. One of whom was radio. [laughter] and another, a biographer. I thought i might give the lead. Before he could speak, i said to him smiling, its going to be hard for me to get used to my own private chapel back home having spent so many hours in yours. [laughter]. To the side of the room, politely nudging my wife and me into the company. A photograph materialized. The pope blessed us, smiled again and left the chamber. There can never have been such revelry in the vatican elevator that took us down to our waiting car. Sir malcolm practiced being radio, so that he could proceed [laughter] today malcolms voice would come in over the Long Distance line, he would always, is this radio on the line . [laughter] but when i visited him at his Little Country cottage in sussex , there were here and there a few pictures of the family and one of hum and pope john of him and Pope John Paul ii. And so it goes, my instructions were to stick to this theme, to invite the questions on it and to agree to share with you with whatever it is you wish to share of a secular concern. And so i close by giving you two paragraphs written about my mother, to whom the book is dedicated. I wrote a few years earlier he had raised her glass on my fathers 75th birthday to say, darling, heres to 15 more years together, and then well both go. But my father did not but my father died not 15 years, but 3 years later. Her grief was profound, and she emerged from it through prayer. Her belief in submission to a divine order and to family and friends. A a few years later, her daughter maureen divided at age 31, and she struggled to fight her desolation, though not with complete success. Her oldest daughter, eloise, died three years after that. And then three months before her own death, her son john, my oldest brother. She was by then in a retirement home, totally absentminded. She knew us all but was vague about when last she had seen us or where and was given to making references every now and then to my father, will. And the trip they planned next week to mexico and to paris. But she sensed that what had happened and it struck at her nerves. She was endearingly under the impression that she owned the establishment in which she had quarters. To drive her to the cemetery and there, unknown to us until later that afternoon, she witnessed from inside the car at the edge of an assembly of cars her oldest son lowered into the earth. He had been visiting her every day, often taking her to a local restaurant for lunch, and her grief was by her standards convulsive, but she did not break her rule, she never broke it, which was never, ever to complain because, she explained, she could never repay god the favors he had done her no matter what tribulations she might be made to suffer. Ten years before she died, my wife and i arrivedded in sharon from new york much later than we had expected, and mother had given up waiting for us. So we went directly to the guest room. There was a little slip of blue paper on the bed lamp. Another on the door to the bedroom, a third on the mirror. They were love notes on her 3x5 newspaper note paper, little valentine of welcome as though we were back from circling the globe. They were there were no sensation to match the timbre of her pleasure or the vibration of her elation when she saw you. Five days before she died one week having gone by without her having Say Something though she clasped the hands of her children and grandchildren as they came to visit, came to say goodbye, the nurse brought her from the bathroom to the armchair. She put on her lipstick and a touch of rouge and the pearls. Suddenly and for the First Time Since the terminal descent had begun a fortnight earlier, she reached out for her mirror. With effort, she raised it in front of her face and then said, a teasing smile on her face as she turned to the nurse, is it amazing that anyone so old can be so beautiful . [laughter] yes, it was amazing anyone could be so beautiful. Thank you. [applause] mr. Buckley will take questions, but could you please step up to the mic because we are being record ared by cspan. No one misbehave in front of cspan. [laughter] hello. Thank you for your very inspiring comments, and i have already read the book. Its very worthwhile. I have a comment thats general. Is it ever worthy today to compromise ones religious beliefs in order to promote unity whether here in america or abroad . Well, i think the critical word there is compromise. The pope is very straightforward on the matter of the Political Correctness of trying to do that much that can be done so that, for instance, if one were to vote for one candidate who said, well, im in favor of abortion, but i insist that the mother be notified, to vote for him as against the person who said, no, the mother should never be notified, would be a politically prudent and understandable step. In those circumstances under christian theology, is one justified in effecting a mortal sin for whatever purpose. For instance, under the christian creed whether catholic, episcopalian or whatever, it would never be justified for a cia spy to seduce somebody or to assassinate somebody. There would have to be a civil understanding in the latter case that if a protective shield to activity that otherwise would be theologically forbidden. If anybody wants to contradict me, it doesnt hurt my feelings at all. [laughter] i also, with particular reference to the middle east, theres now a big trouble spot in terms of Orthodox Jewish law and the reformer conservative movement here in america whereby orthodoxy seeks to awe cert control and assert control and reforms that it should have a say. Do you have any suggestions . Well, the, the religious dissension within israel was for many years thought of as an entirely private matter. It is no longer that because israel, to be sure, is a discreet national community, but its also an international shelter. And under the circumstances, the concern of people who dont live in israel of jews, for instance, in america is itself a concern. And what we see now, of course, the situation is extremely militant and demanding a section is is withholding or not withholding its sanction to a Coalition Government depending on whether certain laws are enforced which the majority, apparently, are against enforcing. So we have a genuine problem that weve all read about to the extent to which it has divided many of israels supporters here in america. Some people think that the old order should hold fast, others thinking that conciliation is in order. [inaudible] [inaudible conversations] im veronica simpson, and im on the board of governors here. We thank you for coming, mr. Buckley. And my question is a little digression, but i think it would be of interest to the audience. About 20 years ago i purchased, i bought at a charity ball one of your beautiful paintings one of my what . One of your beautiful paintings. Its a boat scene on water, and ive always been a fan, so i was happy to have a painting by William Buckly buckley. Which you signed for me. Now my question i have two questions. One, are you still painting, and the second question is, is my painting more valuable . [laughter] this will sound like a plant, but i promise it isnt. [laughter] when my brother was elected to the senate, he had, of course, a deficit. And two i events were scheduled to try to collect money to defray that deficit. Both of them were auctions. One here and one in rochester the next night. I was the auctioneer. [laughter] and among the items listed was to be a painting to which i devoted much time in switzerland under the tutelage of [inaudible] who painted every night. The great moment came, and the crowd really wasnt watching its wallets very fiercely because everything sold at utterly extravagant prices. So i kept egging up the price of this painting. It finally went for 1875. I practically fainted. I offer myself to the next [laughter] at the end of the evening, it was a little bit humiliating because the gentleman who bought it turned to my wife and said, here, you can have it. [laughter] so the proceeding night it was up for auction again [laughter] in rochester. But in rochester theyre much less exhibitionistic than in manhattan. [laughter] i could see early on that the kind of enthusiasm generated for anything in new york wasnt going to go. Time came to auction my beautiful painting. Who will bid 1,000 . Dead silence. [laughter] well, who will bid 500 . Dead silence. Well, who will bid 250 . Well, i will. I recognized, the my dear wife it was my dear wife. [laughter] so she got it for 250. And im delighted you now have it. Hope you enjoy it. [laughter] [applause] ive ad mired you as long as im married, which is 45 years. I think i first saw you interviewed by mike wallace on late night television. I was wondering if you would comment, do you think your americanirish heritage has been a help or a detriment to your political career . [laughter] well, im terribly proirish, so i dont know what you expect me to answer that. Unfortunately, i dont qualify completely to serve under that banner. I was invited to join the order of the, order of st. Patrick a few years ago in new york until they asked for my credentials. It didnt work. You have to have three grandparents who are irish, and i fear there is no irish blood in my mothers but the irish are the salt of the earth, and i remember the night with mike wallace. I remember it especially because he had a ferocious reputation. I think his show was called open end, yeah. And in a half hour, he had slashed and destroyed reputation after reputation with his fierce research. When i came on, he was a little bit dazzled because the preceding guest had been this, this toast of america, butterfly mcqueen. And mike wallace in those days, as most people were doing, was trying to egg any black american to express discontent and a fatigue with the high mobilization of america. So at the end of the evening, he turned just before i came on he said, well, mr. Mcqueen, do you worry about how much time we are wasting and how much, how many risks were taking on the military . No, sir, mr. Wallace. I dont worry at all. I just remember to say my prayers every night for j. Edgar hoover and senator joe mccarthy. [laughter] [applause] mike wallace was very discomfited [laughter] by that. I once asked who was the founder of meet the press. Whats the name . [inaudible] i once asked, i said, harry, have you ever larry, have you ever been completely wasted . Just devastated by one of your guests . He said, yes. He said, about a year ago i had on the man i hate most in the United States, no, i hate most in the world. So i i saved my haymaker until the last 22 seconds, and i said, senator bilbo, last week senator taft called you probably the worst man ever to have been elected to the senate in the history of the United States. Whats your comment . He said, dont you understand . Senator taft is a communist. [laughter] sorry, im rambling. [laughter] [inaudible] its great to have you here tonight. Thank you. I have to say that you and your son look more like brothers than father and sop. [laughter] my question to you is i know [inaudible] is everybody having trouble hearing . Okay. I hope i can i know that youre a staunch row man catholic, and row man catholic, and i havent read your book yet except the first chapter because i subscribe to the National Review, and i intend to get the book tonight. My question to you is have you had any doubt, have you gone into any of the metaphysical religions which give an entire, an entirely different access to the great creator . For instance, that the only reality is consciousness and, therefore, in all, through all and as all. And i could go on but i wont. [laughter] im just wondering if you had any problems about that or, obviously, you didnt have any problems, but how did you arrive at the notion. Thats what im asking. Well, the i do, i think, acknowledge here in the book though not by any means profoundly the enticements of this or that spin on religion. I remember when all four [inaudible] took to going to some magic yoga in india to get their inspiration, and it didnt last. And i dont mean, i dont mean to denigrate those other religions, but all i can say is when once in the past a classmate expressed his restlessness with christianity, i urged him to read two books, both by the same man. J. K. Chestertons book orthodoxy written when he was a protestant, and then his book the ever everlasting man in wh he compares the dei den,s of the credentials of the principles competing in faiths. I wish i could put exactly the same phrase about when the whole world anxiously seeking something until he finally found it, it was orthodoxy. To answer your question at a personal level, im aware but not profoundly of these, what you call these metaphysical and im never troubled with any worry that anything has come up that hasnt been plumbed by men and women of huge intellect who setting for christianity. I was debating last week, a television debate, a couple hours on evolution and creation. Four very formidable people on both sides. One of them a brilliant professor, hes written a hundred books. He said, well, you know, you in my view, i had made a a point that much evolutionary thought is now dogmatic. They say there must have been, there must be materialist Natural Selection untroubled by prime or by or or by divine intervention. That is the dogmatic commitment. And i was asked, well, dont i believe in [inaudible] yes, i do. On the other hand, darwin didnt rise again on the third day. [laughter] so there is, i think [laughter] there are several perceptions on the basis of which christianity can never be selfsatisfied, that would be wrong, but proud and confident. Through . Okay. [applause] we thank mr. Buckley for being with us this evening. I also want to thank jerry and her committee and jane randle of the Calvin Coolidge Library Committee for having this event this evening. Thank you all for coming, and mr. Buckley has consentedded to sign your books, so please come forward. [applause] [inaudible conversations] thats an easy one. Hope you enjoy it. [inaudible] how are you doing . Fine, thank you. Did you saw patty . Pat,ti. My wife says a make it to [inaudible] mary what . [inaudible] okay. [inaudible] [laughter] [inaudible] oh, he was and malcolm [inaudible] [inaudible conversations] hi. [inaudible] ellie. Say hello to burt. [laughter] hi. To my wife [inaudible] whats her name . Her names donna. [inaudible] yeah, really enjoyed that. Thank you. Hi. How are you . Fine, thanks. This is for . Virginia. Thank you very much. Hi there. [inaudible] ingrid and don. Thank you so much. Thanks a lot. Hope i didnt [inaudible] [inaudible] teresa. [inaudible] well, thank you so much. And youre watching booktv on cspan2. And tonight we are Binge Watching with the haut author william f. Buckley jr. Now, we have one more program tonight to show you with. In april of 2000, many buck lu sat down for three hours to talk about his life and wiz work. This is from booktvs in depth program. Here it is. Cspan welcome to booktvs in depth. These are the books of william f. Buckley jr. , 41 in total, ranging from his first book in 1951, god and man at yale, 1985s black reason, his latest collection of speeches, let us talk of many things, due out at the end of this month. For the next three hours, mr. Buckley joins to take your calls and questions as we explore husband complete body of works and husband life and writing and politics his life and writing and politics. Welcome, mr. Buckley. Guest thank you very much, mr. Lamb. Cspan this is old and musty. This is, what, 49 years old . Guest yeah. Came out in 1951. It was rather amusing. I had calculated for it to come out on the 250th anniversary of the founding of yale. In fact, that was, of course [inaudible] cspan the picture on the back of you, do you remember those days . Guest no. [laughter] cspan whats in the book . Guest well, the book was an examination of life at yale for the undergraduate with special attention given to impulses in which, to which he was exposed having to do with government. Enthusiasm for greater government or was it enthusiasm for lesser, less government. Is and also inspect of religion. In respect of religion. What was encouraged in those courses in which religion touched. Faith or skepticism. And i concluded that in those teaching it was collectivist and agnostic. In respect to the shall i rattle on, or do you want to [laughter] cspan let me guest i was going to say as recently as four years ago at a reunion someone who was our past minister reminded me that i had volunteered to read aloud the section that bore on christianity to dwight hall, a from turnty of kris chapmined from turnty of christianminded young men. I regret to tell you that everything you said was proved correct. Of which he meant that the gradual sort of disappearance of a strong Christian Faith was accurately predicted in his knowledge of what went on and what happened. Cspan did you ever figure out how many of those books you sold over the last 49 years . God and man at yale . Guest it wasnt an enormous selling. It got a lot of attention. Got three reviews, for instance, from the review of literature which was in those days the one mostly read when deciding what books to buy. I guess under 100,000. Cspan this is mccarthy and his friends. What year [inaudible] cspan exactly. [laughter] guest that came out in 1954. Its a book written with at the high pitch of the mccarthy [inaudible] written by brent bozell and me. I had just pulled out of the cua and was making my way as an independent writer. In 1954 the country was enormously promccarthy and especially those elements of the country that were mobilized on the communist issue. We closed the book in september of 1953, and as i separately recall in a novel, most of his really crazy mistakes were done later with one important exception. So the book is a very good resource, resource for anybody who is interested in the [inaudible] in fact, when whitaker chambers wrote to the publisher, henry regnery, thats why i want the book. Solid research. They were the the great question mark during that period of mccarthyism but they completely disappeared when the arm tragedies came along. And arbitrages came along. And that proved to be a battlefield in which mccarthy [inaudible] cspan were going to be talking with mr. Buckley until the bottom of the hour which is about 24 minutes away, and then itll be open phones to you for two and a half hours as we try to work through all these books that youve published. Heres one called up from liberalism. Paperback here, but what was the purpose of this book when you originally wrote it . Guest that book was written in 1959, and what it attempted to do was to distill what i thought were the postulates of [inaudible] to the scrutiny of events and ask shouldnt we move up from liberalism in the direction of political realism and in the direction of policies that were more successful. Cspan forward by john pasos, who was he . Guest he was a spectacular leftist during the 30s. He was a socialist and very utopian. He came around on that. Shocked his huge constituency by becoming [inaudible] so when i suggest to him that he might write the forward, he rather enthusiastically agreed to do so, and that was that. A happy convenience. Cspan heres one called youre on some kind of a scooter. Guest yeah. I used to go around for a while on a scooter, and this particular photographer shot that and a few others for some magazine. The blanket. That book came out as the first, i think the first of my collections. It was very successful. It happened to come out at a moment when there was a lot of publicity being given to my, changes with gore vidal on the political conventions. And that probably had something to do with its success. Its a collection of material which, in 1958, i suppose there would with a market for the book. Cspan 41 books. When we went to try to find them, we learned that you dont even have all 41. Or do you . Guest i try to keep a bound copy, but maybe ive messed up on one or two. Cspan some of these are yours. Youve collected lots of books over the years. Some of them we had. Rumbles left and right . Guest thats a rare book. Thats the second in my collection. That has a long essay i wrote on chambers when he died. Incorporating material that he had sent me pollutionized into a which evolutionized into a book of its own. It got a fair amount of attention. Many legitimate reasons [inaudible] mr. Buckleys book. Thats really all he is engaged in. Hes a speech writer. Cspan where have you written most of your books . Guest almost all in swiss or eland switzerland except for two or three. I have a routine which takes me to switzerland at the end of january, and i sit down and write my books. Cspan how long do you stay there . Guest six weeks, six, seven weeks. Cspan so in the time were talking today live, youve been back there for how long . Guest ive been cspan i mean back this time. When did you get back from switzerland . Guest about ten days ago. Cspan so youre rested . Guest no, im not rested. [laughter] ive had to [inaudible] talk about testosterone, and he says that hes he is hawaii positive, but hiv positive, but he says ever since he used it, his energy level is completely back to normal. So i thought, well, that might be ad good thing to investigate. Cspan born in 1925, still 74 years old . Guest yeah. Cspan any time over these 41 books are that you enjoyed the most . Guest well, i find writing hard by which i mean im not in the company of those who look forward to writing. John chamberlain, the eminent [inaudible] years ago utterly without affect talkings, he told me affectation [inaudible] about 3 00 in the morning he woke up and he hadnt written anything that day. So he got up, went to the desk, pulled out his type writer and wrote an essay or something and went back to sleep. I know some people like that whose need to write can be compared to some peoples need to eat or to take exercise. I dont have that. I dont think its terriblyier the blue hard, sweaty work and, happily, i write quickly. In part, no doubt, to contract the pain. Cspan when you write what do you write with, on . Guest i write on a computer. Cspan how long have you done that . Guest since they existed. Cspan when did you do what did you do before that . Guest i never wrote by pencil, not since college. I was the editor of my school newspaper. For the first week or two, ill write by hand. But then back to a typewriter, which i think most people do. Cspan what time of day do you write . Guest my routine, my bookwriting routine is to start writing at 4 30 in the afternoon. Gives you time to ski before that and to do your regular work in the morning. Cspan i noticed in your column you referred to your wifes something happened with your wife in switzerland this time around . Guest she broke her leg rather badly in 1965, so she hasnt skied since then. So ive got to do that on my own. Cspan dud you ski e . Guest i had the flu. This is a terribly boring, account of ones illnesses, but i had a cranky flu that didnt immobilize me, but made it almost impossible to ski. Sort of withered the limbs. I i was pointing out by the time i [inaudible] cspan United Nations journal a delegates odyssey. Guest its a wonderful book. I was asked by nixon to be a public member of the United Nations in 1973, and so i did. About two and a half months, and in order to justify this [inaudible] i must write about it. So i looked for a bibliography by the uted nations. Nothing had ever been written about it except a book by a [inaudible] in the brazilian delegation. It was such a bore. So i wrote this book, and i sent it to the new yorker, and it was accepted right away. I wish i had but they said theyd have to have [inaudible] publy caution by six months. So i pulled it out, and its a really interesting book because it was at the height of the cold war. Plus, also, it was the moment at which pinoche took over. It was the threeday war. So it was a pretty exciting time, september 1973. Cspan your opinion of the u. N. . Guest well, i wrote about it at the time that it was the most extraordinary and concentrated deposit of prejudice, of hypocrisy in the history of civilization. Everyone knew that the spokesman from east germany would say what he was told to say from moscow. Everybody knew that the spokesman from saudi arabia [inaudible] the. Den,s of israel using pretty much the same language of the last 25 years. Everybody referred to each other with this exaggerated deference. It was a pretty ugly, ugh lu ugly sight. At the same time, my wife and i had certain arrangements expedited by having any international party. [inaudible] where a radio beam ends and mine begins. So for stuff like that, it was useful. What the United States ought to do, this was a book much less important now, was never, ever to vote in the General Assembly argue, plead, cajole, threaten, all those things. It would never hold. Because the minute you vote and you lose the vote, you subscribe to the superstition that the democratic process should be listened to even when [inaudible] and morality. What dud happen, of course, is the people ignored it. Gradual lu, the power accumulated in the Security Council where it pretty much rests today. Cspan bill buckley will be with us for another 2 hours, 45 minutes. This is the cspan series, in depth. Somebody sent an email which you know very well, john lucas. Guest i admire hum. Cspan john gideon will be our fourth. The idea is to spend three hours with an author and give the audience a chance. The program is about the books. Want to try and stay on that. Ive got another one called the up making of a mayor. We dont have a cover, per se, because somebodys taken it. Guest well, that was a i decided to run for mayor of new york on the conservative party ticket in 1965. My point being that the republican candidate was putting forward ideas indistinguishable from those of the democratic candidate. I did run, but it was a rather dramatic occasion in part because this was a newspaper strike there was a newspaper strike. As a result of that strike lasting seven or eight weeks, all the exchanges were on television. [inaudible] equal time. And that gave exposure to my positions which would not have been, not is have been had if routine newspaper accounts were given to them. So it was a very, it seemed like a very interesting opportunity to try to express conservative views on urban problems. I was, in a sense, prophetic in that i kept insisting [inaudible] was really a democrat. He became a democrat finally later having been defeated for renomination on the Republican Party. Cspan this book is dedicated for kat and Elliott Taylor on november the 1, 1965, a grateful and devoted soninlaw, what is it, 1966 . Whats your philosophy of dedication . Guest i try to, people who are important to me personally or professionally. Theres a wide variety because the business if you name anybody and forgot to name anybody else, its depressing. You end up with dedications, you find out you forgot your own mother. So thats its not impulsive impulsive what sort of comes to mind. Translator Kathleen Elliot cspan Kathleen Elliot tailor was your taylor was your motherinlaw. When did you meet your wife . Guest she was a sophomore, i was a freshman. I was a veteran. Then we sort of renewed our courtship, i guess it then began, in vancouver. She lived across the way from my sister. It matured, and that was 50 years ago. Cspan this book, right reason. Guest right reason. Oh, thats one of my collections. Im trying to think of the dominant piece in it, if there is one. Oh, yeah. Its the first one of my collections which i asked somebody else to edit, to Read Everything that you have written in the last seven years if you write regularly, its an enormous task. And so i asked dick brookhiser, at that point a junior associate. No. To do me the favor of singling out the material that appealed to him. So he had the dreary job of reading it all. Cspan i is have something too ask about the National Review. To ask about the National Review. When did you start this magazine . Guest it launched in november of 1955. Cspan whats your relationship to it now in. Guest im an editor at large of the magazine. Cspan do you own it . Guest yes, i do. I resigned as editor in 1990. Cspan has it ever made any money . Guest no. Cspan does that bother you . Guest yeah. Yeah, it does. But only in the sense that youre bothered if you run a hospital that doesnt make money or a school that doesnt make money. We are an educational effort primarily, and for that reason absorb the tuesdays the vis tuesday of a philanthropic enterprise. Cspan in this book you dedicate it to roger finish. [inaudible] guest oh, yeah. One of my dearest old friends and a supporter of the magazine. We differ now on protectionism which im not. But the great thing about him is notwithstanding that difference, he doesnt withdraw his advertising with the National Review. Cspan well, here it is, milliken. Wheres wheres he live . Guest South Carolina. Cspan has that been tough over the years, when supporters dont like what youre saying . Guest yeah. One company when we attacked the joint Earth Society stopped its advertising. Its been definitely interesting. When the idea of the magazine came up, willie was a i via news intellectual. And when he left, he became one of the three editors to of the free men which was a conservative [inaudible] and out had 17 trustees. They all were meeting and disagreeing on subjects or eisenhower for the presidency. Is so it was his idea that i start a magazine. The actually importanted a morive thing was to keep all [inaudible] because if you have all of them, the magazine may prosper or it may not prosper. But [inaudible] people staying up until 3 00 in the morning trying to decide who has the votes. And its extraordinary how tranquil life can be ins known who makes these decisions. We dont go out and say [inaudible] you have to use your authority cautiously and decisively. Maybe i should write a book about that. Cspan about five minute, well go to calls for william f. Buckley. By the way, i noticed theres a comma here between buckley and jr. I thought you didnt like that. Guest no, i didnt proofread it carefully. Cspan why dont you like it . Guest it was the first time [inaudible] you know, if you want to construct a logic for it, you can do that by saying that your name is william f. Buckley jr. , and its not as [inaudible] it cspan out has an introduction by Alistair Cooke. Does that a make him a conservative . Guest no, no, no. People can introduce a book without being ideological soulmates. It happened one of my books in the Washington Post 1971. And i, it was the very nice review, so maybe we should meet. Well, weve had lunch every three months for the last 30 years [inaudible] hes become very competitive on certain issues, extremely, but he would not be a conservative in the national cspan how old is Alistair Cooke . Guest he is 97. Cspan what kind of a life does he lead now . Guest im sorry, hes 91. He still plays golf. He a had a little bout of the motor type thing this winter, but i expect to see hum in a couple of weeks. Cspan on the firing lines, its dedicated to [inaudible] what was firing line, how long did it last, and whos warren . Guest well, byline began in 1966. It had been scheduled to run but the fact that i was running for mayor disqualified it. It was thought that it would last 13 weeks, and the idea was to have confrontational exercises with conspicuous liberals. It was quite successful. Anyway, finally i ended up [inaudible] and i killed it at the end of the millenium. The last show was run in december of 1999, 33 years. Cspan why did you want to kill it . Guest well, because i felt that things have to end. The way i put it is i didnt want it to die on the stage. Things cohave do have to end, and its not a bad idea to pick a propitious moment to let it end. I didnt think i was running out of gas particularly. Also it was a strain to get concern. [inaudible] because as you of all people know, broadcasters dont like to pay for anything. They want everything free. Which meant that the entire [inaudible] provide by us. Cspan nearer my god, whats this . Guest im a catholic, a believing catholic and christian. That should realize an obligation to write about my faith both to express gratitude for it and to pass along certain points that i is have found persuasive over the years. Cspan whos the dead caution to . Dedication to . Guest its to my mother. She die at age 90 and was a very developed, marvelous woman. [laughter] i wish you had known her. Cspan what was she like . Guest well, she was sort of a beauty, had ten children and had sort of a twittery way, plenty of steel there. Deferred in almost all situations to my father who was [speaking in native tongue] on the other hand, everybody who saw the scene knew that life was pretty much as she dictated. She was [inaudible] and we lived in, we were brought up in europe and in connecticut. Connecticut was home. But 1966 my father bought a place in South Carolina in camden, and thats where they are both buried. He was a texan [inaudible] cspan if youre watching this program live on principle the 2nd, the year 2000, the new the lines are open. 202624111 in the eastern and central time zones, 2026241115 if you live west of the mississippi. And another book here is the governor. Guest yeah, thats e a phase in the odd Old Testament that if the lord things shall be as the governor lists them as the lord desires or specifies. And theres a lot of fun stuff in that book. Cspan do you have a favorite . Guest you know, i do. But its a book that hasnt quite been published yet. Its a book on my speeches. Very carefully selected. 150,000 words out of a half million cspan is it this one right here . Guest its that one, yes. Cspan we dont have the actual book. Go ahead. Guest i was going to say everything i have to say is there. Beginning with a speech i made when i was a senior at yale to the speech i gave here in washington for the heritage society. The 25th anniversary. People find it interesting and amusing and hisser hysterically [inaudible] ton of verbs, but the way. That book was it doesnt [inaudible] they shot back with terrific stuff. Even George Mcgovern say its a hell of a book. Cspan bill buckley is the sharpest mind of contemporary conservatives. Guest how do you like that . Who said that . Cspan mcgovern. As a confirmed government who is his dissenting friend, i recommend this impressive collection of speeches and commentary. The collection is a national treasure. Guest gee was whiz. Hes a lovely man. Cspan now, you have a bunch of novels. I mean, this is your latest guest oh, yeah. Cspan a 1999 novel guest well, that books about joe mccarthy. He, 40 years after writing the first one, the whole mccarthy scene really needs to be, my candidated as a novel explicated as a novel so you can say things you know to have been true and know to have been revealing which got left out of the futuristic approach back then. I think its very effective novel, and [inaudible] hes very antimccarthy but also a student of [inaudible] he thinks that the portrait in that book is very important. Cspan i want to ask our audience to try to focus in on books that youve read of william buckley, william f. Buckley. Got stacked here a whole bunch of novels. On the scale of what you like and not like the best, how to you how many novels have you written . Guest 12. Cspan whats that like compared to scwhrg actually, 13. Cspan what do you like best . Guest i think its generally, generally its easier the write a novel because theres largely less research. On the other hand, how are you going to write the book in sick weeks . You do. You get the research lined up. But the wonderful thing about a novel is the temptation to improvise. You got to make it a surprise. If you have a high threshold of boredom, which i do, you tend not to write that because you for yourself. I cant do that. Cripples me. For that reason, i like to think that. We have two hours and 25 minutes to go. New york city, first color, go ahead. Is good to see you go saturday. That reminds me, i dont think youve written books about music. I know you had intense interest in music in the morning why you havent done that. You havent recorded, could you please answer those questions and tell us about your relationship to music . [laughter] somethings wrong. He wants to know why you havent written about music. He says he saw you at Carnegie Hall a few days ago and why youve never recorded. The answer to that is easy, im not good enough. In fact, the weve recorded. Ive made so many mistakes. Writing about music, special times, the best writing i ever did was as a music critic for a journal, at age 50, i went to music concerts. Isaac mountain. I published every week for a couple of years. Somewhere out along the line, two things. Number one, music is very superficial. I was a total consumer. To write about it structurally and secondly, some people transcend, theres no way to communicate the beauty of music through writing. Its kind of a barrenness in it. Little rock arkansas. Your next. Im wonderful. Mr. Buckley, the story in little rock, you came to town one time to speak and stopped at a pay phone at the airport and on the way out, had given you the key to the city on your way out. He stopped at a payphone on your way out in the same person who saw you came back to the same from to use it and the key was stuck behind a pay phone and i thought it was wonderful. You have been given the key . And you are on a payphone and you left and they came back to the payphone and found the key. [laughter] to get the, on the. I assume you make some effort to save it all . No. Good afternoon. Caller i feel youve been part of my story for 35 or 40 years in the late 60s, somehow i got a hold of your home address and youve been intellectual stone for me for years. Various ways and places it on that, i would appreciate that. The book he did on your trans atlantic adventure, it was a Real Adventure for me. A few moments ago, he described yourself or identified yourself as a believing catholic. Somewhere during the mid time of connecting with you, i began this myself and i was wondering used the word believing catholic in a way that you could explain. A lot of references, especially in diseases and its most often meant for people who are irish or whatever and its used without that severity. I was doing that by the code so i heard 18 of catholics were doing that. The logic of days of School Attention to that suggests informality on the. We are talking about the 41 books at a minimum that buckley has been. Hes random almost every year. Since 1951. Silverado, california. Your next. Hi mr. Buckley. You basically turned my head around in 1962 when i was in the service. You probably remember me but in any case, i wanted to ask you, where you think the conservatives gained the justification for certain measure of Public Authority over conduct . The liberals on the left fails to gain that justification. I think it is because the constituency appeal is transitory. By which i mean conservatives are tempting to regard and survey the criteria, it doesnt merely justify how i described a democratic act. It was a democracy of the bed. A number of the decisions made even before we were born the it was across the constitution of the United States and bill of rights. A followup. Wanted to ask whether, for example a mother such as flagburning constitutional amendment effort, which is a conservative populist type of effort, very little to do with history and yet, it seems to be those who are conservatives have no problem with applying the power of the state in these kinds of instances but minimum wage upsets them so im trying to find out the consistency he here. Consistency between something and minimum wage. I didnt hear. We were having a little trouble with our earpiece. Did you hear the last half . Yes. Why dont i just move on see if you can hear this one. Good morning. For some color, a long time. And thank you so much for cspan. Mr. Buckley. I began watching in high school in the mid 1970s and following your writings, what you will, he discussed a long time about malcolm and i was wondering what your relationship with him taught you about your faith and maybe what it can teach the rest of us. Malcolm as you might recall, was brought up christian and left the faith. Discovered it in his book, he did it with marvelous enthusia enthusiasm, he spoke about christianity much as one might speak about the first time you saw a show on broadway. The enthusiasm is a marvelous power of expressing himself as done in a couple of books. We became friends and he asked to be there for the sixth time. They became catholic there and yet another final, he had a faith that looks like the faith of the clown in a 1773 trauma drama. His passion for christianity shown through it. Its a program produced every christmas time. People plan. Did you have a place people could see them all . Television movie, television and radio on 52nd street here in new york . They have 1150 of them. Fort myers. Greetings, mr. Buckley. My name is tom. 1972, i had a chance meeting with you and madison avenue and you granted me, is the first editor of the local paper there called our town. You granted me 815 minute interview at a later date which turned into an hour and a half of talk and it was wonderful and i played the tapes for people, it was wonderful. We discussed quite a bit about the campaign. Id like your opinion now on two things, if i could. That is the candidacy of the Hillary Clinton or senate in new york, what you think would happen and number two, are you planning on writing anything about the Clinton Presidency . What would you think on the first three lines of his obituary with . Thank you for everything youve given us, he really are a great man. That is very nice of you. I appreciate that a lot. Wish i could read what it was i said in 1972. Im not impressed by him, Bobby Kennedy was formally there. I think if people want to vote the other side, its a better argument than that. Her husbands legacy is going to take a lot. He doesnt and all the word, it was a time and proper satiation. Gratitude. Gratitude was prompted by mark, we take a lot for granted. There was something i didnt conclude. I remember most keenly he said the thing of the mass, 1932, a lack of any appreciation of what is that we get for nothing. Theyre urging to do some expression. His very specific for that service and with people in hospital, teach children who are illiterate and in the environment. I was very enthusiastic about the idea of helping that materialize which said, if you have no immediate service, dont come around. The idea of it presented at a meeting. They said, what you think . Probably would have said we have many years of service. If they did eventually. Very much encouraged that idea of gratitude and continued on with the it was backed by government power and assertion, it is resistant. The government is behind it and it doesnt work, what you then do . This is what happens. Lets go to breckenridge, colorado. In 1994, mr. Berkley wrote the forward for the National Review for colleges and universities. The oldest of my six children applied for college this coming here is not been a new version but since that time, we found it very helpful then but we are wondering if there was an inversion therapy forthcoming or mr. Buckley could recommend other resources to help us with that decision. I dont know that there is one plan on the drawing board. The isi, has its own and we have the same criteria. I would recommend you go there if we dont, soon with our new version. Minneapolis. Mr. Buckley, i just want to say since the end of the year, theres been a real void in my life so i hope this program will build some of that. Have two questions. One time you quoted someone who said what he learned throughout his long life could be expressed with the simple quote, jesus loves me, this i know, for the bible tells me so. That is very profound but i dont remember who it was you were quoting but i was wondering if you could tell me. Second, about the best gift of the money you have was adler, unfortunately, i havent seen anything about him recently, suppose its possible hes died but i have not seen in a mortuary. You know how hes doing . I know he is alive and i know hes not active given his enormous energy, it must be that hes daily incapacitated. When he was here, it seemed like it was 91, hes got to be his late 90s . I think so. He wrote a book, is a marvelous explicator. I very much miss him. I recommend his books. When he was here, he had written 45 november asking what his favorite wasnt it was how to read a book. That was a best seller, a surprise bestseller. It gave him both a name and Financial Independence which was very important. I didnt remember that. Laguna, california. Mr. Buckley, please explain tapes introduction to your novel, the red hunter. Id like to john the giving intellectual file equivalent of this countrys politics but you dont mention irreparable damage he did to americans, underline americans. Conservatives that until, amazing last evening, i admired you greatly. She lives. [laughter] it is extraordinary what one sentence can do. The question, mccarthy managed, its not easy to answer. This book, making of a man, i investigated that so i came to the conclusion that the people who he claimed were no means people with reference. This particular incident, the people most people like me. The damage he did to the anticommunist movement, even today, if anybody thinks criticism of somebodys record, was that i dont think that many were. In a sense look, if i were part of the ku klux klan and someone is running against me for office, the fact that its said about my background is not itself unjust in these characters to defend themselves and the trials, they were confronted with the, they might have been liberated from that kind of temptation. It doesnt give immunity from its being brought up. I followup. Yes i think mr. Buckley, you overlook the trickle down to the levels. People who might have described to the left leg could have, i am aware, personally clouds. These are not people who felon, who were in college your age, almost and lost credibility questioned his endowment many people is intellectual, i might add, who were not thinking conservatively but, as young people were thinking liberally. If what you are saying is that the will stated, will suggestion this was reflected in this experience, ive never seen on television mccarthy shall prevail, theres nothing about that to be shut up. If you find it down the line, he didnt get promoted because of the friendship league, the answer is the kind of thing does happen just as it would have been that somebody is accused of prejudice because he voted against that. To discredit a movement that perspective, i think it is a big struggle and political history right after war was enthusiasm stolen and acknowledgment that he ran a terrible one. They were very much influenced by people who said youve got to come out on the other side of peace. You got to recognize the soviet using is working on its way and youve got to beg a few eggs before you can scramble. Around 1948, 49, with the loss of czechoslovakia with the detonation of the bomb, china and having gone through that, becoming a fellow traveler was not an easy way to go as it had been. Mccarthy screwed things up by going so far as to discredit those distinctions. Bill buckley will with with us for about two hours. This is called indepth. Before we invite you to come with us for four hours, mr. Buckley has written 41 books and we are talking about some of them. Have our phones open. Next month, and the first initial was john lewis. Now we go to st. Louis, missou missouri. Thank you for this indepth program, i really like it, it is a good chance to get a more intimate knowledge of the authors you have. I appreciate the program. Mr. Buckley, ive heard you talk many times, i have read your books because i have my own writing to do but i hope you will forgive me for that. I liked your narrative about my god to me, the other things you saw battle my cage was a positive at the end of your name and i never looked on it in a positive, i always looked at it as something had to differentiate myself between my greatgrandfather, my grandfather and my father and myself so i was taught about not doing that ever. The other thing is, he talked about your book on christianity and i also am a catholic and a writing about Different Things on the subject of basically more on christianity. A lot of rumors were swirling about. They said it was the review was antisemitic as a result of what had been published. I thought i explored those books and a minibook length and so i did just as one of our callers put it its important to distinguish a position that is soft on as if someone wants to have a revision in the policy. Its important with antisemitism to make those distinctions. A lot of them are associated with the 20cent 30s. Antisemitism was pretty much a way of life. When i was a freshman at yale they had one member of the faculty. He was the first so coming out of the conservative position was an effort that i engaged in and this book goes over that grounded and seeks to bring those points. Host athens, georgia. Caller my name is al bowers and i live in athens georgia. I wanted to call today to the program. When i was seeing student at Northwestern University in the early 1960s we had your book up from liberalism and it remains to this day the most important book ive ever. It was just a fabulous thing to me and i bought the commemorative version of it they came out, the American Spectator and read it again just recently and my wife also is familiar with the her family because she has taken your brother reads course at the school of camden. Shes been there twice in one of the times i company sure to camden because it was close to athens and i had the opportunity to meet him and he is as you are a delightful and very intelligent and delightful person. We are big ugly fans at this house. Host let the ask you what is it that you got from it that stayed with you so long . It was a way mr. Buckley explained earlier in the program, took the tenets of liberalism and held them up to the glare of the factual realities and then ask the question why not raise ourselves up from this thing that has been proven over and over again and i think it continues to be proven over and over again that these basic tenets of liberalism are wrong. Host holger question for a minute there. I want to share net in the weekly review. At three day workshop technical business workshops for executives and john buckley and Priscilla Buckley and Christopher Buckley presided over by reid buckley directed by capping parker. I dont know how Kathleen Parker got into that tree in guest priscillas the knees living in paris and buckley lives in washington and was a press aide for camp some years ago. Plus go Christopher Buckley is how old no . Guest christopher is 47 and he is a smashing thing. Host your only child. Guest my only child. Host mr. Ahead. Caller my question is this. It seems to me from watching television which i do every day that the Major Networks abc, nbc cbs and cnn especially seem to be increasingly liberal in their on the news and sometimes just ignoring stories like the recent story about the privacy act that are harmful to their side and my question is do you see this and if you do what do you think about it . Guest i think that its one of the forces of nature we have to contend with. The Critical Community tends to get its life and its inspiration from the temptation to criticize the establishment probably viewed. There was a publisher that said between 75 and 80 of people engaged in television and journalism have voted democratic in the last elections. When i was at yale at her faster disclosed a poll taken of 10 new york professors and there were 23 of them. 23 truman, and do we not. When does it really have to recite data of the time because its so wellknown that by and large the academic media and the Television Radio are liberal and not the mccrab versus republican. Host go ahead. Caller two questions mr. Buckley your opinion of the late hamm and have viewed engage in discussion with her . Guest i never did that i wish i had. Host who was she . Guest she was an important philosophical analyst. Her most conspicuous work probably was hurt cover to the eichmann trial in which she formulated the phrase the banality of evil and a lot of people thought about the singularity of the rather than explained as one more expression of the hideous hideousness of human beings. I never did run into her and she became a little it eccentric. I had not read her exchanges with Graham Mccarthy which had been published as a book. Host Oklahoma City or next . Caller mr. Buckley but no longterm them member of the mob chillier society which was founded some 52 or three years a day by Friedrich Hayek and some other freemarket intellectuals and it seems to me that there are probably two or three individuals who are really critical, were really critical in securing the liberty and civilization that we know of and to the 21st century and one of them would be hayek in my opinion and i know that you have written some essays, auditory essays on hayek and i would like to know just how important you believe hayeks contribution is to west today and especially to the young people who are coming into the 21st century. Host what was the name of the site it . Gascon at the montpellier society on alpine peak. They wound up with marketers who had survived the war and they found a think it was 45. Hayek was very influential. I dont know if he was influential also as a journalist his book im forgetting the name of the book. The road to serfdom was materialized and it was a pretty heavy book and he wrote an extremely important philosophical case made for him. He got the nobel prize not for these accomplishments but for some technical accomplishments he had gotten when he taught in london during the 30s. The university of chicago when he became an american, they wouldnt give him a tenured seat. It was sort of odd. Host he never got tenured in chicago . Do you ever know him . Guest guess i did. Host what year did he die, 1991 . Guest i remembered giving a speech at his 75th birthday but friedman lived forever. Host is there anybody else besides hayek that was put into that category that was writing in the century that had an impact collects guest henry hayek had an enormous impact. Him think he was a ph. D. But his book economics in one lesson was hailed by a lot of as a rudimentary expression of the free market idea. Host Carmel Valley california were on with bill buckley. Caller good morning i was wondering if mr. Buckley had any comment about golda dowell. I wrote a long essay which was published in 69 thats about all i have to say about him. Host have you seen him anymore . Guest ivan sigal many more. Caller good morning mr. Buckley how are you quick summit 230 College Student and i spend a few more years abroad and i recently. Your book god and man at yale. I picked it up on a dusty shelf and i was wondering if you could give me i was reading Dinesh Dsouzas liberal education recently and it sounds like the liberal tyranny on campuses these days and it was heightened to a fevered pitch and i was wondering if you could give me your impressions on that. In my experience most universities have the local conservative dissent for instance at yale called the yale free press. It comes out every month or so. Dartmouth has the dartmouth review which is a weekly of the harvard salient. There is the propensity and expressive dissent even asking the question why should they be dissenters rather than people who are at knowledge this spokesman in the committee and the answer is im trying to think in 1949 i dont think there was a conservative since then which simply fortifies the general impression i have which i decided long ago that the Critical Community tends to gravitate in the direction of what is thought of as liberal or leftist. Host this is out of context but im looking at page 111 of god and man at yale and there is a letter to the yale daily news signed by gordon milliken. Any relation to Roger Milliken . I didnt have time to look the whole thing up. Lets go next to long island, go ahead. Nope, we dont have long island. We go to mesa. La mesa California Run with bill buckley. Caller hello i would like to send greetings to both of you gentlemen. You do a lot for the public good and knowledge and we thank you for that. A brief question for mr. But we on last call for blackford oakes. Our forefathers knew that man could be good but they have a high distress of him for pursuit of his own im going to endeavor to get it tomorrow. Regarding, and the child of the baby boomer some the 60s we strayed from their public into what is known as the a democracy and just any wisdom you would have on that trend and how we can perhaps turn back to the course we once were on. Guest there was an oral 20 years ago whether we are a republic or democracy. I tend to think it tends to surrender simply to usage. People who want to be fair about it say a republic understands the there is propublica and by and large to the extent that theres any agreement on the subject it tends to be that republicanism unlike democracy acknowledges the limitations of dobermans power and for that reason encourages governmental restraint. Host our producer doug johnson has a list that says 19 of your books are still in. 21 are out of. And there is one thats only available on audio. What is your sense over the years if the look is out of. Can they still did it through the. Coms in the bookstores . Guest oh sure. I have a lovely ingenious and i dont think theres any book you cant find. Host where the william f. But we papers . Guest at yale. Host sue have reconciled with yale after all these years . Guest you dont have to reconcile with the republic. Gail was terrific about it. You dont have to have an allegiance to yell to have them handle your papers. Host long island for bill buckley. Caller my feelings on a relationship with stalin and your disk should have stalin is not exactly correct. Prior to it was the capitalists that brought in the fascist government of mussolini and overthrew this country using [inaudible] and after the war there simply was an attempt to reconcile with roosevelt and stalin on socialism and the fact there was a thought that it is not going to be capitalism and fascism but capitalism and socialism and the original agreement was to germany under the ford palace in build the German Economy up and pay the russians for war reparations because they did most of the dying in most of the fighting. They lost 300,000 it was the United States that the conservatives and the dixiecrat went to the agreement and isolated russia in an insane cold war that lasted 45 years and we are responsible for the of the russians. Guest are we responsible . Guests caller in the way we are because the paranoia of the bolsheviks excessive the alignment of the white army against the red army cause a lot of suppression of anyone that had connections to the romanoff and the neatest guest would install and have that what scruple did stalin have about human beings that hitler didnt have . And a . Caller stalin who was a thug theres no doubt about it but they viewed stalin guest stalin dominated a foreignpolicy and domestic policy of the soviet union between 1924 and his death in 1953 and his legacy unfortunately continued many of those practices. It was a renunciation by khrushchev in 1956 that concerned everything that we had always said about the soviet union, not everything but enough to justify what you call that crazy cold war. Caller khrushchev, there was the opportunity. In fact the overflights that eisenhower had over examining everything in the soviet union that was a possibility for eisenhower to apologize. Instead of apologizing he didnt apologize. The cold war continued but every chance there was an in fact if you go back a little ways there was the burns communique that he brought that to the congress and is a combination of the conservatives and the dixiecrat in the communique. I think we pretty much told the russians that us capitalists wont agree to anything and even if you agree to everything because when we had the bomb and we could the rob russians and the japanese. We could isolate them because they were at 21 million dead. Guest there were 289 bombs in cuba. I find this a fantasy and regret that you had stolen not. One more of my collections, what you want to say about it . Host is there anything in here that you remember of note . Guess who id have to look at the contents. Host do you find that you do forget . The guest oh sure. I would have to look and see if theres anything. Host will take a call while her wedding this is from lewistown. Go ahead. Caller brian and mr. Buckley hi. Im some of the high acanda my monitor my second reading of the road to serfdom and he was affected somewhat by his close associations with people that were involved with austrian economic theory but im wondering how in your own writings the austrian theory such as that espoused by von mises had a relationship to what you publish. Thank you very much. Guest its not a running call because it is factual list. The rough understanding is that the Austrian School is more pragmatic i contrast with the british Chicago School which tends to take data and reason on the basis of what actually happens. So the influence of von mises is enormous but as a General Social thinker i think of hayek it exceeds von mises. He says von mises is not a very good economist. You have to be a professor to get away with saying that but what he was saying primarily was that he is a man who reasons with archetypes and those archetypes are not all that useful for just simply planning what to do. Host how many languages have you learned your life likes guest a Little French thats all. I taught spanish as a sophomore for four years. They were very short of spanish teachers at yale after the war. I had gone to the university of mexico so i kept it up a little bit. Host in this book we showed a handle of the controversialized and you have some of these asides in the letters. Dear sir you possess one of most than acceptable and of capitalism ive ever seen from Michael Moores of yorks and when you right back to mr. Moore said beavers seen the face of ulysses s. Grant . To my dearest mr. Buckley where would you be today if you are puerto rican . Do you remember any of this stuff . The answer is publicly that would be minister of propaganda in the frustration of governor Carlos Romero borzello at yale. Guest that is amusing journalistically. Nobody knows who Carlos Romero porcello is at this point. Host enters sadly enough on the back it has this note bill buckley certainly deserves his reputation as one of the wittiest political satirist writing today but i managed still the news york times Steven Weisman. Isnt that the same Steven Weisman . Guest all code must be. Caller mr. Lamb and mr. Buckley gratings. Its fortuitous that i have the privilege of speaking to both do the same time because you fellows are both my heroes. You and done so much for the edification of america and the american dialogue. My question mr. Buckley is about Whittaker Chambers and alger hiss. When did you first believed mr. Chambers and his allegations in this against mr. Hess and why did you believe him and also did you ever meet alger hiss and so what was your impression if i could follow but they comment about the earlier callers questioned, quote i think its been attributed to the late professor karl marx if im not mistaken. Thank you very much. Guest i met alger hiss and i thought it was correct the moment the charge was made. I thought there was authenticity in his language in part because i thought it was plausibility what he said by which i mean we knew there were spies. We didnt know how many there were until later and it struck me as inconceivable that Whittaker Chambers would simply come up and make a charge that preposterous and lesueur grounded in reality. Host bakersfield california, good morning. Caller good morning, how are you sir . The enjoy your show very much. Two quick questions mr. Buckley but im studying 64 president ial age and i was told about goldwater not being at your conservative. What is your opinion of him and also the opinion of clinton in history as a president. Guest i never said that. I would never say that. I knew him very well and what is correct about Barry Goldwater in the last eight to 10 years of his life he adjusted his position in such a way as to say if the Supreme Court says so then i go along. This is a different position from what he adopted in his book , in his famous book on conservatism and it has been said that decision was affected by his wife. His first wife died and he remarried. I sat next to him and i was the master of ceremonies and she was being given the annual goldwater ward are you. Host the first or second goldwater . Tesco this is the second goldwater. She turned to me and asked who were your present heroes and i said Ronald Reagan. She said oh mine are Adlai Stevenson and [inaudible] so i said well a case could be made for that but it was thought to be hearing from the wife of goldwater at a celebration in honor of and what im saying is when one hears about goldwater in the last few years he was conservative had to do with positions that were close to his belief with questions about about no military questions about abortion and so on. Host las vegas. Caller mr. Buckley this is james from las vegas. Guest how are you doing . Caller i have two questions. Was it true that Sam Tanenhaus is going to be your biographer . Guest yes it is and i enjoyed his book on Whittaker Chambers certainly. Also on gratitude the plan that you outlined part of the National Service plan and i will get off of here after i asked this. Do you contrast that to what mr. Clinton had with the american Americorps Program and the different focus the liberal ideology where we are paying these students 18 or 20,000 a year to quote volunteer unquote. Guest its not what i had in mind as an expression of gratitude, i owe you this. Its a marketplace transaction which the government keeps edging up what they are willing to pay over time. I dont think this book was a genuine attempt at reciprocity by the american young woman or man. Host when the Sam Tanenhauss book coming out . Guest i dont know. Host how do you relate to him during this. Mask . Guest i dont think he had even started writing it but hes been long, and the wittig or chambers book and he took six or seven years. Hes only been working on this for a couple of years. Host how much of your papers are available . The guest he had my papers at yale and he has access in the subject to my right to prohibit it. I get all looked give a lot of people access to those papers. Theres always a proviso that it be shown what was published. An enormous and James Burnham has just been completed. There are several differences between him and me none of which i ended up be towing but if there was an entirely personal one i would feel a commitment to privacy would outweigh. Host cleveland, you are next. Caller hi brian. Mr. Buckley is a preview ill tell you that firing line has not been on any cleveland station for id say the least 15 years. Host theres a copyright isnt there . Caller you were kidding. I thought it was outrageous and i wont go do that but anyway the forget to my real comment that like to just say your colleague william russian was the man who made my brain think and work and he had that program ive never seen a better debater changed my mind on somebody issues. Guest that was a terrific program. Caller and he is a terrific man. I just adore him but anyway i noticed when you told him about mcgovern he didnt call him a communist. No of course not. It would be ridiculous and you know being a communist means you never have to say youre sorry. We dont have these tours going around with these communist. They all die in their beds. They never go around saying how sorry they are were because they are never sorry. Thats one reason the same is true of democrats in this country who have absolute destroyed the system, destroying the neighborhood schools having this union of teachers who care all me about union issues are not only but mainly. So the idea of a teacher to me growing up no one thought of it but you never have to say you are sorry for a things you do better so destructive and horrible and yet, and yet if you are conservative you are always supposed to be apologizing for things and i noticed when you were talking about pat buchanan you did sort of call him, yet tendencies towards fascism. Guest i didnt say that. I said id examined what hed said and some the things that he said were antisemitic. The answer is some of them were. Then i said i dont happen to think he is. I think hes intrigued by the whole icon of comparative. I apologize for it. Caller mr. Hyde are nostra. Now you have this entire towards communism as in czechoslovakia and other states and poland and whatnot. At least socialists in every single state so now this man is the bin elected to anything. His party has some power and so now this man has resigned from the party and the European Union said no we arent going to have any stewards we are going to boycott. Thats right im sorry to say. It was the head of the party think it was but whatever it is even clinton is criminal we have in the white house was making statements about where and are not going to have to much to do with austria. This is absolutely out rages. These are the people who talk about democracy, democracy which happens to be the real religion of america because its something you have to believe in that doesnt really exist. But these are people in austria that vote 37 . Guest now wait, hang on, hang on. In the first place we are currently in the 20th century. There are very bad people making very good points. Hitler didnt have the but if you add the communists they were a majority. I dont think theres any obligation to say because its not a majority we have to be enthusiastic about his election. In the case of austria its almost embarrassing and humiliating the extent to which we have tried to ourselves on the subject of higher key. At the same time if there is a hypersensitivity on that general subject maybe its historically understandable. Host who you mentioned bill russian. Who is he . Guest bill russian was the former publisher of the National Review and is a syndicated columnist. Host where did he live and how old is he . Guest he is 77. Caller this is marvin. Good morning mr. Lamb and mr. Buckley. Looks like you to enjoy one another, to good peas in a pod. What i was going to ask mr. Buckley as hes such an avid writer work constitutes treason . Why new look at the couple what were their names concerning the abomb, the rosenbergs . They gave the abomb to rush and they were probably executed now we have seen a white house and who knows how many secrets of our Missile Technology they gave away and they walked this earth free. I was hoping you would be prompted and inspired to write what constitutes treason. Guest treason is formally defined in the constitution and thats giving aid to the enemy. The law under which the rosenbergs recipe executed did not have the word treason and it. It was a law that said it was a capital offense with month to the faux Public Information to anybody without the party. Treason is most often used in a metaphoric way. Its loosely worded and can edgy word to use to mislead the youth and theres a whole list of focuses on how elusive that term is given not was given a capitols sentence. He was simply telling the youth the correct things. On the other hand he violated rhoda calls rather gravely in athens. Anyway your question is treason is defined in the constitution. Host some around here that is that you always have a red pen in your hand. Guest i have two or three idiosyncrasies. One of them is that i write only in red ink and theres a reason for that. If you have a lot of people editing a newspaper as was the case with the National Review you dont want to worry about whose markings you are looking at so i always used red. My other idiosyncrasy is that i perish if i dont have Peanut Butter for breakfast. Host what time do you want your Peanut Butter . Guest when i breakfast. Host what time is that . Guest between 6 00 and 8 00. Host what formed you in your Peanut Butter and . Guest it must come with toast. It can be an english muffin or acorn muffin. There should be a little honey in it and it should also be buttered. Host is this every day . How long have you done this . Guest every years every day. About four years. Host what started a . Guest my natural attraction to i had a call from Donald Rumsfeld and he was the head of the board of trustees of the tuskegee institute. We are coming up on your 100th anniversary in will you please write a column . I went to beths faculty and Peanut Butter was invented by George Washington carver. I wrote a column and i said i have never endeavored a piece of and mired entire life but if i did it would say i doubt that i shall ever see Peanut Butter. I got into a heated argument with charleston heston. Its not skip these. And an Unidentified Company said would you taste hours . It simply the best. Its called redwing and it is the best. Thats what ive always eaten ever since then. You have to find it. There was a store outside, lambs delicatessen. He might have redwing Peanut Butter and it would be called lance Peanut Butter. Host crest hill alumni for bill buckley. Caller hello mr. Buckley. First i want to thank you for your many contributions to the intellectual and literary life of this country and secondly id like to know what thoughts he may have on the many novels and writings of ayn rand and what do you think her legacy may be in general and in particular to guest it goes back a long way. When Atlas Shrugged was published Whittaker Chambers reviewed it in the National Review and he gave it an absolutely scathing review. As a result of that ayn rand never consented to be in the same room with him and if it was preestablished that i had then invited to some Rightwing Party in which he was also invited ayn rand of course is a materialist and her ambition was to understand the World Without the possibility of transcendence. The notion of altruism, she thought that was a word and she tells a very good story and much of it is admirable but when she begins disputing herself with god she became unconvincing. I very much regret her influence host mesa, arizona. When that review was published a lot of people on the program wrote in and recently as a result of that terrible hysterical inexcusable review of ayn rands book i Whittaker Chambers iowa you do cancel my subscription and never alan greenspan. He was a randites back then but thats how people were as randites in the 27. Host mesa arizona go ahead. Caller good afternoon mr. Buckley. I have read your Book Airborne in 1976 and racing through paradise. Im a sailor and i really have enjoyed your books and its an honor to speak to you. Guest im delighted. Host caller everyone is coming onto with politics and that sort of thing but i thought it was a tongue in cheeks type of thing since we gave away the panama canal what about making our own. Or is on a bit of baja straight . The concept of the real estate room and which youd be long remembered by and we can call it the Buckley Canal, please give that some thought. Lets hear your word on that. Guest . Host why youre doing that ive talked about the Book Airborne. Guest diwan me to start with that . Host doesnt matter. I just want people know about the books. Guest i had a wonderful time. Its a terrific 30 days with six others plus a crew that would feed us and we did all the sailing. I sailed across the atlantic high and then i sailed across the pacific and then i sailed westward to barbados in 1990. I wrote books in each case in order to finance the troops. The question was about a canal. When the panama canal took place and i was in favor of the treaty i was convinced after trip to panama but there were enough safeguards written into the treaty to authorize it and it became threatening. This very bizarre idea about where the Buckley Canal is supposed to go. I have to be reminded i dont remember if that was not part of at the time. The dependence on a canal in the age of air travel and globalization, i dont see any type of chinese outfit figured in that traffic. If you wanted to close the canal you would have a right to do so if it affected commerce. Caller thank you gentleman and an wonderful opportunity dissipate the but they. Changing the track. I certainly enjoyed the Blackford Oaks book he offered mr. Buckley appeared any comment on them and how they came about . Guest let me ask you first about the books. How many heavy red . Caller ive read for. Absent read the last one. Ive read stained glass and whos on first and im wondering how mr. Buckley got to writing these books and thank you so much. Guest thank you for asking. There are by the way 10 of them and casein ever need to pick them up. Host we have all 10 hear these can be available and can be bought anywhere . When did you start writing these novels . Guest i wrote a book in 1971 happened was my editor and two associates wanted to have lunch with me. One of them said have you read a novel recently that youve enjoyed my city of the just finished reading the day of the jackal and my editor said well why dont you write a so with my resourceful wit why would you played trombone and we laugh. It was a contract for a novel published by doubleday. We struck a deal. They would pay a third of the advance and then they could say enough is enough and we terminator they could say go ahead. Anyway it worked and effect was on the bestsellers list through two publications. But Blackford Oaks the protagonist goes from episode to episode of important dates of the cold war and the last one makes his final appearance just before the berlin wall comes down. Plus your youth through with the noble son Blackford Oaks . Guest yes i am. Host lets go to El Paso Texas next, go ahead please. Caller good afternoon mr. Lamb and mr. Buckley. Mr. Buckley had just wanted to call and tell you i am a 50yearold woman not so much older than your son and back when i was a liberal he was a good thing you are so charming and used language so beautifully because they listen to you for that reason and fortunately stuck around to realize what youre saying was also very i am now, my children have grown, now going back to college to get a firsttime degree and i also do a lot of volunteer work in my community. I expect to be out there working and contributing something. Im interested to know what you think the political and social implications are of someone in my age group as we get older and perhaps some of us have moved from liberalism and conservatism could what do you see . Guest did you mean applications or obligations . The is go shes not on the line any longer so well have to guess. Guest if its an obligation trying to understand what the contentions are and try to ask the primary question is this necessary of something that has been done by the government or might it be done by the private sector . Is it is done by the federal government or by a smaller unit. I was in minneapolis a couple of days ago and got i discussed the federal program on doing something about the letters in minneapolis. And i said what on earth does washington d. C. Have to that they cant figure out themselves its a question when social issues arise. Host how many speeches a year do you give . Guest about 20 or 25. Host do you write them out . Guest sometimes. Sometimes not. Host what size and the audience is the best for you . Guest i like a smaller audience of 800, around their. Its much chi easier to handle a thing. Host du prefer College Campus . Guest i prefer College Campus. Host why . Guest is livelier and by and large if you have 800 people in a college audience they are quite discriminatory. If they have come to hear you they want to hear you for whatever reason. I contrast they have to go because they subscribe to the series so the other audiences can be terrific but in answer to your question i think you have more energy in the college age group. Caller mr. Buckley is a pleasure to talk to you. I was channel surfing and i saw this and i got really interested in it. My views are a conservative and what i would like to ask you besides your books like up from liberalism what would be some other books i could read to get an idea and learn more about how we put this, and the debate spilled into this and also books by liberals which i could understand their views and the policy of it . Guest the best thing is to read National Review. National review devotes itself to the public scene philosophically and politically, economically and constitutionally. It publishes articles and also from time to time acknowledges the important books so given your initial interest thats the way i would go is to read the magazine and take hints from that. Host what about other books besides god and man at yale and up from liberalism what other books of yours would you think hed find the most useful . The guest oh how can i do that . Host which one has the philosophy . Guest in making up the theres a huge infusion in making this or the other decision. Host what about this book right here . Guest that some autobiographer will are theyll order free. Its an autobiography. Its about what lectures that i give and what letters did i answer. Ive done two of those. Crews speed and overdrive. Host is dedicated to gertrude. Guest shoes that age 97 and San Francisco and california but in any event that would be up look primarily of interest to people with the biographical interest. Windswept house, i understood in an interview that i heard with him that he stated that novel was 70 percent actual thank you. William my encounter with the late martin was interrupted. He was very eloquent. Ex priest as well. But i thought he went a little bit to the demand. And i have not read the last half dozen his books which tended to involve plots. And windswept possibly was one of those but i dont know. I dont think of him as having been be five we started the signature series about or months ago. And this is the first sunday of every month, from noon to three. Discuss timing we go to austin now. Where are we. Austin, texas. Guest hello and how are you. I love these book programs so much. Mr. Buckley, i know, i have enjoyed your books tremendously. Ive seen you and i have loved that. I guess the dichotomy is that ive only read a nonfiction. And i loved it. Im not sure that i could sit down and read a section that i havent read nonfiction art. I did love firing mind. I just wanted to ask you, you speaking about mccarthy. I was born in 43. So i really didnt have a fair picture of him except from the films they show they can congressional hearing. I think im going to read that. Because the people who criticize you on writing that. They are the same ones and to this day, there is a wonderful fellow that was misunderstood. Yet they want. William wait a minute. Thats not completely true. Theyre not even in the intellectual circles. Sometimes i write about the famous people. Guest that is the impression you get when you your people say, will buckleys writing is about the snow good. And here we heard them say you misunderstood. I think the book by cannonball was wonderful were they explained to people who only got the hystericahistorical snippetd there. I like to hear finally when history somewhat resolved. And we get a picture of it im just not too in depth and all of his political stuff. William what is good and i hope you never do. [laughter]. Overdrive, was about my life in ten years later, 1980. Host was that from. William in the limousine. In a cant tell but yes it was in the limousine. If i did you have a dog in there. Do you recognize any of those people. William for sure. I am there, my body is there, my driver is there, my late oh my goodness. Erupted. Anyway, it was a scene of my movements read traveling across the country to a place in new york. And the baggage that went into that. I was writing. Guest mr. Buckley, thank you for so much for sharing today. Your major sailing experiences were so beautiful. And might question is have your acquired lessons in seamanship, have they impacted you particular late as concerns risktaking, enterprise and even conservatism. William is a good question. And as one grows older, one reflects on certain things in one has done in the past. And one would not do again including a couple of adventures at sea. The extent to which see going experience comes in handy in aspects of life is not uninteresting. I think it is probably true that when i see is in sort of the flipside of life. If youre out there and you dont know the storm us and you got to do it. And for many years, think about that kind of extremity. So be careful person would ask about that experience. In the answer is yes it is. Host how long was your god. William this one here was 60 feet. Host how many people would be on board with you when you sailed. William ten. Host what was on the screen time you were out at sea. William longest stretch we ever did was to barbados. 1950 miles. Thirty days. Did you ever think you werent going to make it. William no. Host never even came close. William not on a particular trip. But my trip to bermuda, one time we ran into a hurricane. It was a very experience. If we wouldve been denounced, we wouldve been in a rough situation. Host how are you in those moments. William very interesting question. Is a lot of it has to do with fatigue. You survive the first hurricane and there were six of us on board. All of a sudden, we felt we were going to bermuda and another storm came around. Nobody would eat. And that is a sign and we would not wash the dishes. This is a sign of demoralization. We are having a hard time. You just fighting hard tack. Good to be able to revive things. Youve got to know you going in that direction. Everybody was demoralized. And the possibility of ingenuity tends to dissipate. Spy five. Host , go ahead. Guest mr. Buckley, am a fan very long time. Im interested in for Thousand Oaks youve already written but im thinking about the future and wonder if you might write about the free speech that is being taken away. We cant say this and we cant say that. I am a reader of history. And they were. Loud and boisterous just a few years ago. And now we dont have it anymore. So thats all i want to say. William a lot of Political Correctness is stepping out of certain impulses. Making it kind of risky. Taken unorthodox position. And by doing this and homosexuals and whether god really amounts to a serious abridgment of the expression at this point. I would hesitate to say anything about that. Host go ahead. Guest mr. Buckley, my name is and im from new york city. I am interested in whether you have read john cornyn walls about hitler. And what you think of his major thesis that the church is growing more and also on the position during the second world war. William i think that theres a certain amount of yes going on with the pope. Theres accumulation of power. Especially but this business that he had done but didnt do. [inaudible]. Its a vexing question. I rented over the weekend. The author is a senior at stanford and he took only references to the pope. In the New York Times and that was it. Between 1939 in 1948. He was extraordinarily good use to what in the situation in that situation, and thus now. Whether he shouldve done a whole is more is very hard to say. Host chattanooga. Guest mr. Buckley, in the late 70s or early 80s, you responded in the wall street journal with a brief letter about a reporter who had a family business. And he stated, he said that attorneys were handling things rated so you could not comment. Last sentence was in case you were interested in the news over here, you described the woman had been raped by monkey twice. And you said i know just how you feel. It was amazing. And what i am crazy about is perhaps you have set people down to prophesies similarly in some of your books. Ive wanted to hear accounts of that. William i dont memorize answers. If you have a huge article to contend with and not much space to do it in. And plus legal restraints, you just have to manage it but you can. Ive engaged in so many exchanges. Let me say this. In a 34 years that i did with one exception, nobody asked for ever complain about how he or she had been treated. And thats not bad for 34 years. Some people do meet them. The this one particular professor, he was mad that i didnt shout at the other guy who is taking a permissive position on that one. So in these exchanges that were singled out, i dont think i have a reputation of being short or confusing three in an unfair way. Host where is it located. William the Office Located in new york. 933rd street. Host in vain. William it was part of my collections. I think it was in the 70s. Host in this particular one, 1965, in 1972. He was aspirated. William it was a seven yearold brother of a dear friend who died. Host this was in 1969. Studio city, california, you are next. Guest good morning or good afternoon mr. Buckley. I wanted to ask you about writing on mccarthyism. When i first wanted to sandbar of california said you totally kick. You totally do. Youre just awesome. You rule man. But i wanted to make a note, because you successfully defended the anticommunist activities this country how to do to survive. I thought it was interesting that last week we have the academy award. On last year there was all of this liberal uproar for giving an award because he had the courage as an american immigrant to oppose communism. In this year year, and that same Academy Committee given honorary oscar to the polish director for opposing the same communism but not having the luxury of doing it in manhattan. Or in america so why is the one year of the liberals got so upset that heaven forbid, that he gets an award by the academies any oppose communism. But nobody this year send people about an actual victim who was given the award by jane fonda. William is been researched, people who matter to them will be mad at him for testifying to a Congressional Committee. My correct. So this is what they were met at three that subject would not have come up. Im glad to recall that although there was that, and some people stated that thesis that finally, they gave him innovation when they give the award. Host and 41 books, which one or two or three sold the most. William it is hard to keep track. Four or five of those were selection of the Book Club Read just by the filament. Could be made in lending only off of writing books. William oh yes. Heavens yes. Host good if you live that same lifestyle. Only after writing books. William , maybe if i didnt have worries. Host maybe if he didnt have the National Review, the column. Would have been lucrative. William not really thought that lucrative no. Host hello rain you are next. Guest for small i want to say mr. Buckley, how adapted i am to you. And ive got my conservatives from your your first book. Get the name and you look about the writing sprayed and other publications and you really had a great deal of things. I have two quick questions for the process to deal with have any of your opinions changed of the course of your life. And secondly, do you think that with all of the move Internet Services the publication and dissemination of ideas can change. William the latter question. I think that the only presence of use have had some effect. The number of messages that have been given. It makes me think that the internet will turn people on who had some o stop writing letters and they ever did so. Because its so easy and tempting. So the first question can be raised, was a paper of certain drugs. And i chose that position. Not because ever enthusiasm drugs but because i concluded that the war against them was simply not working. And that the casualties of that war was obtaine was a casualty g itself. So thats the one major point in which in the last few years. Host this book, texas in there and other things. The program for the 70s. William i thought or felt the need in 1971. It pays questions that were being widely discussed. There was something useful about them. Education, and crime. And over the others. Host crime, education, welfare and tax. William and taxation. Theres nothing in there that embarrasses me at this point. I would say. And very prominent in the New York Times. And he ended up agreeing with about half of it. Which is not bad. Host in wyoming, go ahead please. Guest i have a quick question for mr. Markley. First, in light of his response at the few moments ago, regarding his philosophical change on drugs. I want to know what he thinks of the libertarian of movement in this country and to secondly, as he read a book called the perfect storm. Thank you. Sue and, yes, i have read the book is a wonderful book. I am terrified what the author capacity and giving life to a storm is really memorable. The first question was what again. Host a salon anymore but i cant remember his first question. Guest yes mr. Buckley, an ingenious wisdom, could you elaborate more on divine intervention and have you ever thought about writing any books on that. Thank you. William ive written a book called near my god in which the subject is raised. If one cannot deny miracles. That has no reason to expect when though. So that if you take your ending self to the lord. You must not expect to come back with everything working. But its wrong to suppose that it cannot happen. So think the divine intervention is an attribute of god head. I would now permit myself to deny god was to do what he wants to do. But it must never expect that he will do so. Not even for Football Team at dallas or whatever. Or something before the Supreme Court. I have been there once before. It is simply a devotional exercise. Twentythree days in which you are vicariously exposed to people having hope. And people pray and all of these crippled come from all over the world and statistically, theres been about 52 so many miracles that would actually withstand and intellectuals scrutiny. But to see memorable, nobody in my sons, leaves there without feeling better. So justifies making the long trip. Host how long did you stay there. William a few days. Guest is a pleasure mr. Buckley. Tragedy none and hope is a book written by carol quigley. Have you read it. William no i havent. I have heard of the other. Guest Georgetown Professor read. Host who taught bill clinton. Guest funny kind of interesting because some of the information historically points to more conservative issues in my opinion than liberal issues. And that was just my question. If you care to expand on anything about her. I just picked up the book and i read it. William i am sorry cant because i just dont have a level of a feel for her. Host there was an email thats came in today. From up professor of Political Science department in florida. If its color. Please on the memoir of john lucas. Confessions of an original center indicate or please comment on his criticisms. The date abandon the critical cynicism the reagan years. In short when you enlighten us about the philosophical differences between you. William i had not read that particular book. I am aware of the criticism. In fact i responded to it. News in the national he tends to haves in opposition to what he considers to be full anti communist. Hes a very original guy and always dissatisfied with the pieces with three other people. Host you are next. Guest i know you are friends mr. Buckley with alan lowenstein. How did you know him and even those who are politically again. How he became. William finally when was in law School Yellow those teaching spanish. And is very active in this movement. Didnt really get to experience him until 1968. And it was in the chicago convention. He was running for congress and he was elected. He was so appealing and so bright. Such a good moral sense of humor. I ended up actually urging with his election. I thought how could i do this. [inaudible]. Host when he was assassinated. William is actually one of the editors, one of seven people who expressed outrage. Assignment switzerland because he was the ambassador to Human Rights Committee in geneva. That was towards the end and then he had this terrible creature who he was deranged. And anna since that he was getting instruction by gold something. Ive been to a lot of funerals but very seldom, i cant remember that grief. People just. Host 1980. The last halfhour in this in depth program. William only half an hour. Twentyfive how are you doing. William just asked me to have an hour from now. Host florida. Guest thank you very much and cspan is incomparable and mr. Buckley, you are one of my heroes also worried but in any case, if i could mention back to the gentleman who is talking about how you thought maybe you very in depth late and some people. I would say the most people probably have not written back to you about these insults only because they dont quite recognize them because of your eloquence when theyre given. And i would just remind one instance that i can recollect. It was with a debate i think you had with the actor macleod. I forget his name. Plain dennis weaver. And is one of the most beautiful eloquent responses. I forget what it was about. But my question is though, everybody seems use these terms when we talk. Maybe even when you use the term, conservative. Its almost as if it is a verb rather than an adjective. Seems to me that the conservative has to be put in some sort of a context. Conservative communist or conservative socialist would be certainly at the end of other end of the spectrum. Im a conservative constitutionalist american constitutionalist that seems like a conservative is almost given a definition all in enough itself. Completely devoid from any context break into answer to that may be. William that is wonderful wonderful question. What i remember most keenly about the confusion was if that was it was, is that the little line in the New York Times about 35 years ago. The use the word conservative communist meaning the respondent. The most conservative instance of how one could change. And conservative communist and become so preponderant that orders have come out preventing implication of a conservative. Seated a marvelous collision of those two words. And it was against the employee tatian of the conscience of a conservative. The board conservative if used properly, even though its distracting. You can say the conservative socialist in that particular way, came out against the proposal of mr. Harrison. In the word is used in the same way that the word moderate is used, a moderate republican. Meeting more towards the center. To define the word itself is mr. Beagle was a professor in chicago. Very shy guy. And in one seminar, he was talking on conservatives is hi. In considering the things. Do you like that. Host in washington, go ahead please. Guest hello 40 good morning gentlemen. Good morning william f. Buckley jr. I hadnt expression of over five decades now moment favorite goes, abraham lincoln. And winston churchill. Eleanor roosevelt. And still among us, we have you. This is my concern. I was able to read before i was in preschool. I was reading when i was five years old. Would you consider my advanced ability to read trajectory and naturally intelligence father would encourage me to read. And living out the other things that children etc. Please comment on the present state of affairs in the United States of america on illiteracy. And how my students into grades five and six in high school. At with the inability to read. Host thank you collar. William we published an important piece in the national beautiful. That was in 1955. Foods by his ago. She was a book editor. She had an important reputation as a libertarian philosopher. She was firm in all of her opinions about reading. She said youve got to learn how to read your four years old. If you wait until late five, you lose the possibility of cultivating your memory. I know if this is true or not she Citizens Assembly thats always been unlimited. And i have a terrible memory. And i wonder, was a six or before he could reading imperialism now. But i think is possibly true to say that society did, gives you certain something the other words might be fleeting. Maybe we are doing such a harmon reading literacy. Host the Smoky Mountains city six. Particle of your wonderful words of the word lover. Noel from massachusetts. Go ahead please. Guest mr. Buckley it is a pleasure to talk to you. I have heard you describe yourself as a george just follower from george. But i have not heard much in having them promote land value taxation and berries. I am wondering why that is the case. William mostly because i began down by my right wing terrorists intellectuals friends. Always find something wrong that idea. But in talking about henry george who is the passing increase capital. An increased labor. But none to increase land. And since wealth is a function. Land should be one. And the effects would be that if you have the parking lots, and the Empire State Building next to us. The text on the parking lot to be the same as the tax on the Empire State Building because you should encourage land segregation. Anyway i ran into a ton of situations where tax theory would be applicable. Bush then also, sort of coopted by the socialists read but it was not one all advocating the process. He only believed in that fact. He was zero on the tax. Host you look board. Host no no no no. I am fascinated. Set easy to remember how to pronounce these words. In affairs to have been up in her hair stuck on the roof of iraq. This bill is meant is it jesse. Sag id now. You dont remember. The first time that i met william f. Buckley jr. Were both members discussing words. The moderator introducing the prompt to test my credentials. Asked me, about this word. Nfl smog as i thought the right to employ the problem persons property. And then mr. Buckley Group Reported an entire paragraph on henry george. This little book did you write all of these little definitions in this book. William this was taken from my text read. Host from your text. William thats the whole idea. Just take words that have been used by the context in which it was used. Host all right what is the word. For fear of having peter butter stuck to the roof of your mouth. William is lord. It does exist. Its not in any dictionary that we had. Host but you got to learn it after eating Peanut Butter. William i dont have that. Host memphis, you are on the air. Glad memphis. Guest yes mr. Buckley, is a pleasure to talk to you. Of any german span for all of these years. I read a lot of your fiction and nonfiction. Im trying to recall things in overdrive for one of the books about your weeks you may mention of the fact that you are consider the issue of the author of shakespeare. I recall that you had the lead author and one of your shows. Live here is a physician on the 17th. [inaudible]. William i was very much influenced by joe who also wrote a book. As on how to get around the internal fact that he died in oh seven or maybe oh six. I think romeo and he appeared to her through four years later. That was about in 1616. They have an elaborate explanation. Wrote, they sort of been eased out after sort of a little they parents. However, these cases are very lengthy. By which, i mean, he did write like shakespeare. Im interrupting you. Host nope. Just getting back to the show. This fascinating and there are so many and books money. And william f. Buckley jr. This is about 1972. William marvelous, great famous painter. She was in that area. In the book is once again, rather a collection. Earl things that i think perennial interest. Some columns. Some of those were from the magazine that i wrote years ago. Guest i have it question on a couple of female writers. One was in a National Review. Also i would like to comment on the writings of another. Thank you. William they are both brilliant writers did florence rights for every issue of the National Review. She classifies himself as a terribly misogynist. She said they never even considered this as punishment. And again extremely brilliant writer. The leader of this word, takes a position because it is just shocking. It involves everything. And thank you sort of an absolute, she would hate this word, lovable. And had tenacity. Host your editor monday was on the program and i asked him if he would ask arnstein to come on and do one of these programs. Did you ever understand that. I did ask her and she sent a letter saying absolutely and no circumstances will i ever even consider being on your program. His affair. [laughter]. William absolutely. Host i would ask you to reiterate that i would like to have her the program someday. And you can come. William of natural that i would. William my fascinating for her almost requires that remoteness. Student id number. Never met her. William i dont know her. We exchanged emails. Waste cider letters with love. Host do you have a picture of her. William yes this picture of her on the books. Guest mr. Buckley. It is a pleasure to speak with you. I know thats a bit redundant but i have amended my question somewhat after three hours here. Three individuals, you prefer to have dinner with. And secondly, by being married on april 28th in berkeley california. That is a coincidence. But nonetheless my love for you to write a test if you possibly send it to me if i can leave my address. Within 33 people you prefer to have dinner with a guy get a test from a wedding. Thank you very much sir. Its been a pleasure. Host im going to put on hold just in case we need your address. William if you send me the address, i would be glad to write a test reprint is 215 lexington avenue. New york, 10016 red sunscreen. And of course you have internet, though giving the subcode did did you know that. Be five how about the three people. William i would settle for my wife and my son and one of my sisters. Host buffalo, new york. Bill buckley. Guest afternoon. Thank you mr. Seems like you have seen a nation drift away into effect towards your philosophy. I do question about higher education. What schools do you think a student can get a or what quality schools can a student get an education that was less prone to postmodernism and revisionism and some of the things that liberal education suffered from recently. William earlier on somebody asked about a guide, hundred good colleges. That would be something Worth Consulting in your situation. Here is something to remember. In any college, and any university, theres always going to be were there to learn than any individual could possibly learn. So then it becomes for the challenge becomes to select and that college something that is congruent with the general trend tradition or individual people. When i was treat and hunt teaching france people would go, they would decide to go where he was teaching. And the professor was at the ambulatory. But they do hope the reputations. And for instance, you could probably go to chicago. But i repeat. Anywhere you go, the beep much more scholarship that you could possibly by. So the challenges do you seek it out. Host in california, if you have the opportunity to address a young audience and say you 20, 50 would you say but the current president in the administration, would you with them to remember about the class seven a half years princeton what i would want them to forget the last seven i have years. William you cant, or at least i cant decide at any given moment far away would be needed to say. I believe theres certain perishable things. Churchill, exists. There will be news worthy statement, i dont know. Host even asparagus. Minnesota crated. Guest hello mr. Buckley. I just finished a book from, up from liberalism. For the first time. And after reading it, i also read other work called liberalism. And i noticed that liberalism has shifted, the term has. We not talk about the 19th century liberalism which is the inverse todays meaning of the word realism. In the book you discussed the fact that you do not know exactly where modern liberalism draws its heritage. But it is clear that there is a Rich Heritage in the 19th century. And they call it as such. It seems to be a little persistent. Not surrendering that term. William you are quite right. They have surrendered on that liberalism. And liberalism was defined and i kid you not, is the history of mans efforts to confine the strength of government. Twentyfive years later, the only thing that was laboring was man from his marriage contract. And thus quickly had the history that he traveled even and 30 or 40 years. Much now a lost word in the original sense of being an effort to restrain government. Well have to keep that in mind in using it. Host 1996. William the book was put together for my editor. Anything that i had written about the use of the english language. He also pete was in the business and more powerful words is used by me in the definition. There were a few reviews in there. From the New York Times and others. Host chicago, your next. Guest good afternoon. Mr. Buckley i would like to thank you for 30 years of wonderful entertainment. William thank you. Guest i would like to ask your opinion, actually your evaluation of two figures. One of whom im sure you know, the other not sure if you did. The first one is Edward Keller rated in the second is a one of the most underrated people the last 50 years. His name was edwin travelocity. William was not dead as much as i know of. An unknown him and i absolutely repair him. He is a tower of strength. Nothing about other than as narrative as an important russian figure. In New York Times really cant say hes interesting. Host california, your next party to. Guest good morning sir and its a real pleasure to meet and speak with you. And i wanted to ask you about your vocabulary. How did you go about obtaining it. William but in the first place is not the big deal. When they up the idea of having a calendar, sort of unusual. They rent out after three years. And there were a thousand words that are conceivable. And if you want and in one book, think there were 26 words that had never even laid eyes on read but by and large, it is safe to say that unusual words, words you dont go and an unusual word, and you have words that i dont operate in each person has a stock of words that he sort of appropriate. And what is true is that i tend to use words that i know. Where a lot of people tend to use their own collection and dont use them so frequently. The publicly will gives me my reputation. Host is this the only respect you done. William yes. Host what is the idea. When we come from. William that is to do something on new years eve and i had a commission to write a book. Its kind of a fun book. Its what this kid and how he taps into magic voice. I was told by a publisher, Childrens Book as have assistance. It has to have the narrative and it has to be a moral. In this they only three reasons i was given. This really all you need. Host springfield, missouri. Guest yes, mr. Buckley, i wanted to make a statement and then ask you a question. As a College Student. And i was raised irish catholic. I read to book up from. At the same time, i read Eugene Mccarthys book, i believe it was a liberal take her look at the conservative challenge. And after winning both books, you one. And since then ive progressively been more conservative. So i wanted to know that and also your declining the invitation to the parade some years ago when i was hoping it was due to a previous commitment of the fact that we are heavily democratic area. Could you comment on that. William what i ran for mayor, the many statements and the people should not identify with any particular ethnic or social Group Whether labor unions or italians and that was or got a little exposure. And i think i ended up going to the parade anyway. For the sake of it. Sorry. Host gives that the last three hours with william f. Buckley jr. And it all started with this book, god and man a 51. On the next on the bookstores this one the chair. William f. Buckley jr. , let us talk of many things of collective speeches. And last question. Anything that you want to accomplish for the rest of your life that you havent done so far. Its right on the tip of your tongue. William go to the bathroom. [laughter]. Host on that one, we will thank you and wish everybody a happy day. Then concludes another look into our archives. William f. Buckley jr. , on book tv and cspan, close to 40 appearances are all available to watch on the website booktv. Org and type same in the search box at the top of the page. We cut this month we are fishing look tv programs of a preview of what is available every weekend. Tonight beginning and eight eastern, but to be features of our programs on books is in my first enjoy the tv, on cspan2. On tv, on cspan2, this Labor Day Weekend, but top nonfiction books and authors. Some sunday at noon eastern on in depth, but to our live conversation with author and Freedom Coalition found ralph reed. Did the 9 00 p. M. Eastern on afterwards, Senior Editor at large. On this book, november and also in the 2020 democratic primaries and election. Is interviewed by editor at large. But on monday, bernie at 6 15 p. M. Eastern, judy gold with the book, yes, i can say that. That is seven, melissa and jennifer on the college emission scandal. Theyre both unacceptable. In a day 30 with five days. 10 10 30 p. M. , retired admirable him on his book, feeling true north. Watchful tv, this Labor Day Weekend on cspan2. And be sure to watch the all virtual 2020 National Book festival, live on saturday september 26 on book tv. Hi everyone. Welcome good evening. My name is mel and on behalf of harbor books are, im delighted to introduce this Virtual Event with alex presenting his new book, when we still have the electoral college. In conversation with another