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Samantha is a chicago author, men more of a writer, which is gotta eat, she is a cowriter of the blog in addition, she cohosts the sunday night sex show and of the life siri got to glories, their collaborating based on the popular book. In our words and jezebel, and her book we are never moving in real life the New York Times bestseller. Angela is a nonfiction writer and author of like a mother, a narrative Nonfiction Book acquiring the emerging science and pregnancy. Like a mother with a book of 2018 a founder of the Washington State book reward and nonfiction and excellent in the near times, her work has appeared in the New York Times, the cut, bon appetit and been featured on fresh air. And also on the changer. Wow, no thank you, sa is a subject of tonight talk, please join me in welcoming angela and samantha. Thank you megan and thank you townhall and thirdplace books where you could buy the book and thank you sam for being here. Thank you for having me, it is 9 00 p. M. So im going to turn into a pumpkin. At some point. We appreciate more of your presence here and we will definitely keep it to an hour. [laughter] okay. We are talking earlier this week, i did a little test, we have up to 90 minutes and i dont think we will be here for 90 minutes, that seems a a lot of time. I cannot do anything for more than an hour, that was in the before times. And we are withering. I have to take sudafed. For the audience who are so happy that you are here and we can interact, and feel your energy, just to let you know i have graciously agreed to read something from her book, she is indulging me and i wanted to give a little bit of an introduction to talk about what the book has meant to me and in this pandemic time, everything feels different on some level it feels lowkey bad in moments of joy, within a moment its like we have no plan to save people or figure this out. When i was reading your book, i was like what is this that i feel, i feel happiness and it does not feel complicated and it does not feel like its going to fall off and then lets talk about this, the book has been sorry you went away for second and not your back. Okay. This is big, your book was an instant your time bestseller, thats one major but for the last six weeks head has been in the New York Times in the bookstore of best sellers. That is weird. Its kinda bleeped up to say youre killing it during the pandemic. You are, the thing about it when i was thinking about it that way is another way that brought me true joy because anyone who should be killing it in the pandemic is a fat black queer lady who not that long ago was an hourly loop waged worker when multiple chronic illnesses, multiple core morbidities, and our society has decided its okay if you die. [laughter] but meanwhile youre out here getting your life. You know its funny when i originally was trying to come up with the title, im glad we did not go with it but one of the ones on my list was dying is fine. So i have accepted its what were doing every day. Im glad we did it and im glad they talked me out of it. I think your success has been an actual source of real joy because it feels that at some bit of justice, that we might not otherwise have. I just wanted to say that in thank you. And the complement but i would say thank you. Youre welcome. Thank you. It is good. I deserve it. Thank you. I may be weird because i dont know how people say nice things to me. Most normal people, there is no normal but regular people have a hard time without and that is fine. With my own faith. I would rather hear this looking at my actual faith. If you want it now, you can hide behind your book and read. This is a request, my favorite thing is for someone to tell me what they want to hear and angela wanted to hear this little bit from body negativity from this terrible book that i hope you all will purchase. So the body negativity that is essentially about all of the things that we are told that we have to do too have a body and have a good porta potty in a healthy body and a good looking body and i dont know how any of that is possible for a normal person. What is happening on your back right now, do you even know . How much hair is on it, is the skin soft . Has years of spending every day in a straitjacket left weird marks on it . How are your moles doing, what is up with the weird scaly patch, are you already so tired from all the other shift that you have to keep track of that you cannot be bothered to worry about the part of your body that he cannot even [bleep] see, i feel that. I think the last time i actually thought to myself, i wonder what is going on on my back was in 2002 when i was sleeping with the dude who lived in the apartment downstairs from mine, he was weird should during sex life, you are so warm inside and i love looking at your back while making love to my rear in. I left the first time he said the warm things because im sorry have you been bleeping corpse, drive undiagnosed measles, anyway im not such a [bleep] that they would not make my back nicer for someone who enjoyed looking at it so i brought a back scrubbing loofah stick and almost dislocated my arm trying to scrape the dead layers of skin off my back with so much force that it will. That i would squirt lotion on the wand and after my shower and tried to slather it on because i had not anticipated how dry and wrong the trickiest part of my body to reach was going to feel after having 20 years worth of dead cells scrubbed off of it. I ended up having to back up to the towel rack and rub myself up and down like a dog against the dry towel to get the lotion to absorb into my wounded skin, my freshly baby back ribs did not feel right for weeks, the next time homeboy tapped on mind door, there is nothing but livid eyes and throbbing erection, he did stop looking into my a nest long enough to ask ouch babe, did you fall on your back, do you want me too put a liquid bandage on this. Good all thermometer dick that no good deed goes unpunished and you should never do anything nice, ever for anyone. Lets flip your body over and examine all the ship that you could do but wont because who could possibly keep track of all of this to have a nice check. I dont mean your boots, they should be erect on their own, im talking about the piece of real estate between your neck and where your booms begin. Heres how i take care of my chest, sometimes when i wash my face but only after ive taken a shower i will accidentally squeeze out too much moisturizer or put too much oil or serum into the palm of my hand and as an frantically looking around the bathroom trying to find some way of disposing it that does not include dribbling it all over the floor and it dawned on me through my morning, that i could rub it on my chest and have a weirdly shiny for the first few hours of the day. I know that back acne is the same but im pretty sure i also have chest backed me, i dont know if that is what it is but im get these little bumps and what the [bleep] did i survive puberty for its 30 years later i will be in the aisle at the drugstore trying to figure out which of the options available work best on a borax. Your breast since under your chin from the moment that they unexpectedly on your chest to your 99th birthday, you know what, i cannot do it. I do not have perky tips and thats okay. I think pitting my nipples to my neck days are over. One of the things i keep telling myself over and over again like a mantra is that people already know what your body looks like so you dont have to try anymore. My breast are shaped like summer squash just as im unwilling to fight with gravity as it ravages my face in the large bags of wet sand hanging below my clavicle are no longer going into daily battle against physics. Are they even, separated, does the band fit, is the cup right, is underwire digging, the brawl flat against your skin, does it create weird lumps, is it lacey, is a breathable, is a scratchy, does it lick moisture, i heard that the thing youre supposed to want. Wait a minute, what were we talking about again, theoretically, everyone loves a strong broad stroller but no one tells you how to get one. So i guess you either have to be born with them or thats what those odd machines at the gym that make you look like a bird flopping insane fully heavy wings are for. Michelle obama is the Gold Standard for arms and im sure theres above freezing interview with her trainer on how they got that way but life is bleeping short, invest in nice cardigans and put that on your elbows, where a sweatshirt 65 days a year, get on definition listing a coffee cup. Armpit care and maintenance of the whole thing, you could, like i have see all the possibilities and let it go and occasionally spraying deodorant that does not work into your dark armpits to keep wild dogs off of you or you could wax or sugar or shave or laser the hair off, dab it was something to prevent ingrowns, powder it and deodorize it. Every day, every couple of days, weekly, i guess that depends on what kind of hair you have and whether or not youre taking beauty vitamins. I definitely and by the way because i love and easy fix even if it is not real, the sheer number of available deodorants to choose from is staggering, i dont know how to person can make an informed decision without getting a bachelors degree in chemistry first, he used to be like do you want to smell my baby power or Cherry Blossom every time you raise your arm in class, now it is would you rather be sweaty 100 of the time or destroy your bleeping frame. In my supposed to keep reading . Do you want me too keep reading . I cannot hear you, you are muted. I am back sorry everybody. No its great. I might privately have you send me a voice memo of that brazilian wax or. I will call you and give you a personal reading after this and then what else, just text me and i will do it. Thank you for that. I think that there are so many things your work touches on but i want i love about it is fundamentally its about being in your body and when you write about your body youre writing about, you know, every way it interacts with every level of society whether institutions or interpersonal or how you see yourself. Feel like that is probably why it resonates for so many people because you are saying that yes, women, the standards that we are supposed to hold our bodies too are impossible and or you have to be rich to even come close to be able to do that but really like everyones body is a mess. In a different way everyones body is falling apart and failing us so as you said theres no such thing as a good body is one that is alive and you are here and so i think there is that what you are saying is, its enough to have a body and its okay to do the least with that. [laughter] i feel overwhelmed by the sheer at the end of the chapter i get into and this is the thing that has vexed me as a person dealing with Crohns Disease is that all of the things that you are supposed to eat to keep your body going and it is like if you truly eight to 12 cups of kale or whatever you would never stop eating and there is just no time or money to eat all of the like stuff you are supposed to eat and in addition to all the things you want to eat, not just the things youre supposed to eat but on the things you want to eat. Its like i need 14 cows stomach to to all of that and like there is this idea that someone somewhere is doing it right and that someone out there is getting all of the fully gas is a need during a day and all the vitamins but it is no one i have ever met ass the idea that it could ever be me is impossible if i just am never going to like get all of the nutrients i need so the fiber and this and that so but it takes out some of the things about eating for pleasure and its basically like a fulltime job when youre talking about you want some joy in their and im not someone who could ever be full either on 14 cups of kale even though i do like a salad. I had one for dinner and i felt very merry much like i loved myself for the five minutes but for the rest of the time i was eating the salad i was like this is a lot of work and kind of gross. [laughter] i really wish this was Something Else so just, i want us all to be free enough to say that i am not getting in all of the beans and that is fine. If i lead the i dont eat enough beans revolutions that will be good for me. I think there is also this idea in our culture that if you work to do your optimal kale, nuts situation and somehow you would be more healthy or perfectly healthy and there is this idea that if youre healthy you are morally superior to other people whereas what about people who are disabled people who are living with these problematic bodies and we are no less good. Rights. I would much rather do whatever im going to do and have that shave a few years off but i talked to my friends dad who watched some documentary and was like you know, you know how people like watch document trees and think they are a professor all of a sudden i was like you watched one movie so he came to me and was like you got to cut out this and do that and i was like man, if you are 72 and, you know, counting your potatoes or whatever, what is the point . Why would you live to be that age if you cant eat ice cream all day if you want . So you can be around at 90 in, no way. Im actively decomposing all the time and im just going to do whatever i can do to get to the next day. If im dying, its fine. And sometimes lettuce salads but sometimes its cheese. [laughter] i want to ask you, you write so much about your body and so openly so where do you think that came from . I know when you started out it wasnt like im going to become a writer now and this is my thing but i wonder where does that come from because people are uncomfortable with that. I mean, i definitely did not grow up with like smart, progressive people and there was no like sort of, i mean, it was like nobody gave me a hard time because i was fat because they currently werent like, embrace your body, except, you know, it was just like well, you know, wherefore you look and so your fine and i didnt grow up with any radical selfacceptance or anything. I was definitely wallowing in selfhatred but when i started writing when i started performing my work especially it was like it felt as scary as it is and it still scares me right, i think that people especially perform the good fatty thing where its like im fat but i love walking and there is that whole thing and i would never want to be that because thats not real but writing about it even as uncomfortable as it still makes me feel is just like well, at least you know what you are getting when you get it like if you read something i have written then know who i am and i can hide from that and maybe i started with the crones first because i could be open about that and i dont have to explain what im going through and i dont have to tell you that if you read something ive written then you know ill be in the bathroom for 35 minutes and dont call an ambulance or whatever and i think writing about my body was the same thing and i remember dating online and i had of okcupid profile and obviously people knew what they were getting because my screen name was heartthrob. [laughter] but i was like all my pictures were very honest and exposes that may be soy never wanted someone who would show up at a bar and be like oh no and the version of me that i saw online was alive so i always, i felt more free in my writing to talk about it so at least when we not meet your like oh, i thought you were like a tiny little wife and im like actually, actually [inaudible] [laughter] and its different because i write alone and then i just like some things to my editor and i am like put it in the book before i [inaudible] it takes a lot of people who dont talk to me about it and see it before its published so it feels like mine and then once it is out in the world, i cant take it back. I have said these things about my thigh folds and now everyone has read them so we will talk about it but it feels less scary especially now because i righted in my little hovel, send it off and then months later it comes back in a book. I dont really read it until they send me the first path of edits and im like i put that in there and i think i wrote it in if we will state then emily forgot it. What i picked up on his dad i was lucid when i was writing that and i must have been in that place where i felt conscious and this is what i needed to say but you make yourself free because if you are already saying the things that you imagine people might make fun of you or give you a hard time about, if you already cited then [inaudible] im glad you said that because that is a big thing for me to. One, i will say anything in service of a joke. Im always trying to get a laugh and i take aim and myself first because, you know, i dont know but its punching laterally so like no one will get hurt but the thing about, i mean, you learn how to deflect bullying or comments when youre young and these are your like a crier or your like i will make a joke before you make the joke and then it takes the teeth out of your joke because i already said it so if i walk in the door being like im poor and i have shoes from payless what will you say that will be worth so i learned that as a coping mechanism early just to get through the day of like you know, punchline after punchli punchline. Your coping mechanism is not just absorbing it or internalizing it which a lot of people there is some of that to but in the moment i definitely was like i will say it before you can say it and then later on like they still said it and it stung but at least i said it first. There is this idea of embodiment or how we think of people who are embodied which, in my mind, it means like youre occupying your body and its connected to your brain but i think i finally made the mistake for most my life that people who are embodied like somehow super healthy or have a certain kind of body but when i read your work, note this is a deeply embodied person. You also will bust out and have these cells in my ilium and its just like when you have when you are dealing with all the stuff you acquire, you become an expert like youre not a scientist you have or acquire some terminology and acquire the knowledge of that experience and is not something you think about . Is not even accurate to say like im a deeply embodied person . That sounds more beautiful than the way i ever put anything so i appreciate you for giving me that language because now i will coopt it and say im a deeply embodied person and i think the way i think of myself, thats true. I often feel like my brain is a thing trapped inside this body and so i know and because it is given me so many problems from so many areas that i am like i am deeply knowledgeable and so, not to get all this about it but when you have a lot of problems and you are in a fat black body and you have to advocate for yourself to the doctor you learned that you need to learn all the stuff they are saying so that when you see this other doctor you dont know very well you can tell them what they need to know so they dont just [inaudible] so i think when i first started dealing with the chrome i learned all of the stuff because you are seeing this kind of doctor and that kind of doctor and youve got to know what this one says but i learned the stuff just as a function of making things easier for me. I think once i really started writing about it oh no, what is happening and [inaudible] i live in the country and our internet is [bleep]. Isnt that cap probably theres a raccoon eating my wifi line outside or whatever so i got to know the terminology and stuff that i could be more helpful to myself and then when i started writing about it i think that is when i was like oh yeah, this is a thing that i have to i think i have a contentious relationship with my body but i have learned it so well that i can write about it and i feel deeply in tune with it despite all the problems. But that is the thing, i think problems or being in tune with it, yeah, i feel like im late to the game on this on a couple of years ago i was like you cant be entombed with with her body and leisure body looks a certain way and that is [bleep] i would feel like, i dont know, because i have not had children i feel like i cant be as in tune with what my body can do as a woman who has like grown a child and i feel like youve got to be in tune with your body in a way that i can never understand and i have grown some tumors but but if you are in tune with your body, just because your body is built to do this thing doesnt mean you should or you have to so i think it goes both ways were you know that is not something you want and yeah, thats for sure. I wanted to ask you and i was like lets talk about your endometriosis so would you sharo that idea because it breaks my heart when you glossed over it but the idea that i have to go into and im familiar with the feeling and its not the same but when you go into a Doctors Office or Providers Office and you are like and fully prepared for you not to leave anything im saying and prepared for you not to listen and have to, advocate for myself or get heated if necessary and so i have questions about the ablation because does this make you menopausal now, are you perimenopausal . Are home runs off . I am perimenopausal but that is just a function of my age but the ablation didnt, i didnt need any hormone replaced with therapy or anything like that and they just kind of, i mean, for lack of more eloquent way of putting it nuked it inside and rendered it nonfunctional so i still have a uterus and i still have all my and now i will sound like a [bleep] idiot and i still have all my fallopian tubes in the curly sushi to but they just dont do anything. I must make eggs. But what happens to them . Im knocking on the door. You would have to ask real scientists. Do they fall out . Do they read as orb . There is only for them to attach to anymore because they burn so like a scorched earth. Yeah, they burn the inside of my interest so i have not had a period in two years, three years or Something Like that. And eventually you will go into menopause but this point they just wither inside of you. I dont know when you stop producing eggs. Any day now. Actually when you are a fetus you come out as a baby with all of the eggs you will ever have so this is wild. And then they mature and there is a limited number of eggs so i feel like i know im on my last two eggs and, i dont know, i feel like im 42 and my period has gotten we are now and that has changed and so yes, i was curious about that but to go back to, you read about this in the book that i was very angry because i just want to take this thing out and im close to 40 am not having children and my period is a source of shame and discomfort and terrible for me and i want you to take it out and they were like no. It was so unmanageable that i am a Health Hazard when i leave my home because i just am, it is like all the shining elevator scene all the time but like again, i dont know enough to be confidently but that is when insurance gets involved in the doctors in your age and the this and not that so weve got to leave it in but you cant decide what to do with your body. Yeah, it was not my choice and we were like i mean, they did everything short of taking it out. I had to go in for surgery and be completely out but then they just burned it to a crisp. On that note, for like maybe i was this was my personal thing and they need to talk about the uterus. No, thats great. No one has asked me about this. When you go to the stepbystep process to talk about the knowledge of your bodies whether you have children or not you talked about having a d c which is a procedure that i had had after having lost a pregnancy and they were like before you might have to go in and will do the d c to scrape out what is left in there so thats like a thing im familiar with and you are on the flipside that gives zero interest and i just want to vacate and so i think these things are tied female Reproductive Health whether or not youre choosing to reproduce or not and whether or not you have the right to decide what is going on in your body. Mr. Blue cross and mr. Blue shield got to make the call on what happened to my uterus but luckily for me here is the thing, it took sometimes and whatever burns are left inside my uterus nothing is sticking to it and i my eggs are like [laughter] maybe i need to write a thank you note to Blue Cross Blue Shield because like well you got this one. And you do not have to have a major organ removed but if you want to take it out you should get to take it out. To move on to something lighter this is another personal thing where i, we need to talk about the days. I feel like you need to get one for your home. I should. I have a travel one which is is it for the two she . Like a it can crush down and has a you can shoot it at your butt hole. You should get one for your home. I have one and my mom got it for me one of his pardon because i was like when on my second or third trimester when i sit down on i dont know what will happen now is like i dont know what will come out or what end. Me to and i am not pregnant. It was difficult to reach around and wipe so i felt like she ordered one for us and it showed up and my husband and i are like we do not need this thing and we looked at it for like a month and then he put it on and within 24 hours were like how did we ever live without this . She got us a fancy one where it replace the whole seat of your toilet and it warms up and can control the temperature of the water that comes out. Cannonade on an useless person do this . I am not handy. Its Remote Control and can definitely do this. But actually attaching it . We need to make someone do that. Ill have my husband wrote. The handy man . Spirit yet, we have a couple of those around. In the end wipe is a clean white, its drawing it off but its not a smear campaign. [laughter] i want to know about that so i dont want to spend as much time in the bathroom. I dont think i knew that you could buy these i thought it was a whole extra toilet but i do not know the rest of the world is have these everywhere. Throughout asia and in the philippines where my family is from some of the bidet look like a garden snake in its in the toilet and scary as the sand so there are varying degrees but even if you dont have that theres something called the toggle which is a pail that the idea being that paper is not enough, its only in america we decided paper is the solution to cleaning our ass and the water is gentler and i dont know, we have a toilet paper started so i am on it and i will order one as soon as we get off this call. Or this event whatever it is. Im doing it. Great, i wanted to ask you about i had read the, you started off as a blogger writing a book know your Time Magazine and now you want to profile lives on i went back and reread that profile and they wondered and i was thinking could be pose some of these questions to you where you dont want to ask liz though why you and why now but she has been doing this for a long time but how do you answer that question because thats an element where you are at. I think it is kind of the same thing. I feel there is little, i mean, ive been doing this a long time and ive built up a fan bases of people who are loyal to me and i give a lot of my work away for free so people can try it and honestly, the tenant years of longing and i still do this newsletter and im like i just am constantly like putting work out so i think some of that but some of it is straight up like and this is like the part i dont really understand is like marketing, right . My last book did okay and so then you know they put your book in more places and send it to more people so thats got to be a part of it to but i think also that i know you are asking the bigger question, i think, i mean, it may be a time for more Diverse Voices in this space and people are more open to it like, you know, i love me some nora efron or whatever and i dont know shes the most relevant example but lets go with her. Its like people who do kind of what i do and maybe people are more open to hearing some hay, my life is dumb jokes from a black woman, i honestly dont the culture is changing like there is this shift where just more Diverse People are getting opportunity but for me specifically it has been a long time of just like, you know, hey read this blog, hey read this thing, here is a meme so its like a constant, i constantly keep work going and i have a very dedicated group of people and i get messages all the time on and scram from people who are like ive been reading your blog since 2008, you know, a lot of that is just my core og people and honestly the internet to like im not a sociologist obviously who can speak intelligently about but the fact that people could so easily share my stuff and that goes back to the giving it away for free in writing online is that like people can share my stuff and then, you know, someone will be like that person has a book and i remember this thing she wrote at this time that i read or she still writes a blog and i should write my blog more frankly but its just this ive been constantly putting things into the world and it is paying off after years. And its interesting when you arrive at that place like i should not give this away for free and another thing you have to be writing, i dont know, hang out or think about the next thing you want to do or whatev whatever. Is still love the free stuff only because you know, it keeps you on peoples minds and its like heres what im thing abo about, especially now that i dont have a day job, it is like i will keep writing [bleep] on the internet and im still talking to people all the time and then again you build that sort of, i mean, its a lot to ask someone to spend 16 on some stuff you wrote and for months they have been like reading my newsletter or whatever and they know it will be worth the money so you know, then it builds that trust but i mean, as far as the culture is concerned i think we are just like slowly making a shift to opening more doors for people and i mean, honestly not to toot my own horn but my success or the ability and the things that happened with this book especially are like more people like me are going to get real now and encourage everyone to take your collection and use mine as a [inaudible] and say her soul is like, you know, sky nine. I think that has happened to where im sure you dont really do the same thing but im sure because like roxana sold millions of copies or they are like well, you are starting to look like her so, you know what i mean . But that is the whole thing that is not a great science which is what it is built on but ill take that. The publisher of the industry should wake up that by the way, it makes sense in a business standpoint because many people who look more like us out there will take our money and its a Good Business model that youre like a capitalists okay we will move to questions from the audience and i think this calms from a local library and and i think that is you. What books or other media have you been enjoying . I am currently reading, so, i mostly read fiction because i like and escape and also reading other peoples essays makes me feel bad about myself. [laughter] so especially when i am writing i cannot read that book because all quit so i read a lot of fiction but right now im reading the new mos job and it is very good and i also love a thriller and a horror book and i just read a book called the return which is very good they keep telling people i read this book a while ago called under the rainbow, its fiction about this fictional town i think in kansas that is named like the most homophobic town in america and they send some gay Alliance Task force into the town and you get a lot of peoples perspective on the Gay Task Force in this town and its really good. Im not good at selling a book but those are some. Great, thank you. Someone is asking or they are saying they love your tomato soup recipe on instagram this week and i can modify the question which is shes asking will you write a cookbook next door would you ever do that . Okay, here is the thing about when you pick this as your job, i will turn down no opportunity so if someone, of course, i would need to get a food person to do it with me so it is legit but if somebody wanted to do one with me and somebody else came up with the money then yes. [laughter] you could just pick your favorite top chef contestant. I love top chef. I mean, lets do it. I had this dream or maybe i can make this a reality but a book where a real chef wrote the instructions in the normal way and then i wrote the [inaudible] but halfway through you realize you didnt exhort amount of flour. [inaudible conversations] and then we can take a picture of [inaudible] that sounds operational so this could be real, right . Ill have to text my agent and lets get on that. But it would have to be and then diversify your income stream. This is like when you see people in there like doing food and shes desperate and did not want to go back to work at the gas station and you would be like samantha but i think people can say that and maybe it could be true or if it is seeming leaf on then i dont know, thats an element of i dont want to do the same thing for the rest of my life and i dont want to do one thing but if it feels good to you th then, take a risk. I will try it. I hope you made that soup and it was delicious. I want you and my personal favorite top chef. I love gregory. Will he when top chef allstars . I think so or maybe melissa if i had to but gregory had to go against may and i wanted made to win that i think gregory could have one. No, totally. But melissa was in that season too so i think they made it to the top three or four. And her mom was so cute. Her mom loves her so much. I think melissa is the most adorable person. So gregory or melissa. Here is a good question, this is serious but i think people would like to hear from you on this. As someone who is struggling with the eating disorder with a helpful for me to be a fully embodied person, like you are, so okay, are there any suggestions for how to start . I currently both hate and fear my body. Thats real. Well, i mean obviously if there are, this is tricky because i would say like if you could do therapy that would probably help but im not in therapy so i will tell you the stuff i do and so, i have found one of the things that has been the most helpful consistently and i do it every day and i used to do it on tumbler and now i do it on instagram, just follow as many different types of people who show their bodies as i can and i just scroll and scroll and scroll and look at pictures of fat people in underwear and i catch myself thinking shes so brave and they are so brave, they are not brave but theyre just taking pictures of the body they live in and they are posting them and that is think that has been helpful to me and so specific resource them like im sure you can search the or whatever and im trying to thi think, i was just going through batgirl flow feed earlier like carissa is amazing but you can just search or look at the explore page and will know how to work and im too old to tell anybody how to find someone on instagram but carolyn has a book and an instagram and a podcast called the suck it diet and it is about intuitive eating and i know the podcast is not a therapy but. Well maybe they cant afford. Well yeah, she is so knowledgeable and she makes things so plain and pleasant to listen to and her advice is so good and she is a good resource and i think she is like the bucket diet on all platforms so you can find her in choosing credible but yes, looking at peoples bodies all day every day, i mean, the internet is a [bleep] scorch but its also yeah, best thing is you can see everything. Yet, feeling like you are alone and you are the only person is such a horrible, horrible feeling and then just like seeing People Living in their bodies they dont even have to be doing anything revolutionary but just like laying on the couch or whatever and there is a person who looks like me and doesnt have whatever hangups i have. I mean, i am fully clothed all the time and then sleeves and pants down to the floor and is not my ministry to post myself and my bra but looking at people and theres is helpful for me. No, i agree. You can justify hours of scrolling this way to or you get to this place where youre like its normalized and its are markable to see a range of bodies and to see yourself within that. You really have to get into it almost like an absurd amount for you just are kind of like it took, my initial feeling is that its horror and im worried for that person like i want to protect them from all the trolls say nasty things and then i stop myself from feeling bad to and just like kind of scroll, scroll, look, look and it has taken years of that but it certainly has helped. I think we will do two more questions because they are creeping up on 10 00 oclock where you are now. Its okay. Someone wants to no, originally southwestern michig michigan, benton harbor, and is fascinated that you live in kalamazoo and how is the shift from chicago to a place with a more Middle America mindset . Well, it was hard, leaving anywhere is hard and chicago is, im from evanston which is north of chicago and chicago is the only place i have ever really lived everyone i know and everyone i can hug and touch and call my real life friends is there so leaving it was hard just because of that in, you know, coming to a place that doesnt have a lot of Public Transportation and restaurants and places to go and places to occupy and i moved here and did not have a job and no office to go to every day, no purpose other than sitting in my own thoughts and it was really hard because there was nothing here to distract me and there was no big glossy mall for me to go to sit in everyday and the adjustment was difficult at first and there was no thai food and i wanted Filipino Food and there was none of that here and have to get on the amtrak and go home but on the flipside what we pay for this entire house is less than my studio apartment in chicago and like that is an incredible feeling like we did a drive to the flowerpot just to warm the car up and try to do a long drive and we passed the gas station and gas is like a 1. 44 and i was like i cant go back to the kind of but to not traffic where everything is expensive and i dont know that i could go back so there are still lots of city things i miss but theyre mostly convenient things. Do miss being with black people every day . We have our fair amount of black people. I dont know what to call him but the guy who takes care of our lawns but takes care of our whole lives is a black dude and i remember when i first met him i was like okay there is a whole black side of town and nasal foods Food Restaurant so there are more than i saw there were but it still isnt like, chicago is the most segregated city in america. [laughter] there are all types of people there but you dont always see every type of person there is so its been a little bit of an adjustment but i found some good stuff to. Before the pandemic i foun found backward and there were restaurants open. [laughter] last question we will go with is and i love these questions because sometimes people in the audience are writers and im curious but could you just tell us about your writing platform. Yeah, of course. I always wait until the last possible minute and i have a couple of its so funny, i couple and of the week deadlines and its like [inaudible] ill give that a couple days so before when i lived alone in my old apartment i would always write during the day and it was like really important to me so it was like when the sun was up i would mostly write on the weekend and i did not have to work and i had one day off during the week and i would write now that i live with other people i need and i cannot write an inside people are moving and things are happening so i have to wait to everybody goes to fed and i dont start writing until 10 00 p. M. Which was a big shift for me but the perimenopause, thankfully, i will do something with that time and i have a desk and a lamp in the whole set up and books and i sat there with my feet up in the armchair with my pillow on my lap and i asked for an actual like essay and i like to make notes here and i will show you here is my close up but like here are some notes for this essay i want to write about a zoom doctor appointment that i had that if i do another collection i will put that in but i like to make notes and then i always, my main rule is i always know how it will end before it starts. Yeah, i never start writing anything until i know how it ends. Oh. That is my are you open to it changing while you are doing it . I have to write to an ending. I just will not write a thing i do not know where i am going and that is my one piece of advice. Know where you are going and then it doesnt matter how you get there but its just like know where you are going. Thank you. Thank you. This was incredible. I will jump in. Thank you both for such an enjoyable, uplifting, informative conversation. Im sure our audience agrees it was delightful and i want to encourage everyone to hit that by the book button and to get wow, no thank you from third place books. Support our books are friends and tonight our bookstore friend is Samantha Irby so get a copy. If you feel so inclined, we would love support from town hall seattle so weve got that donate button at the bottom as well. Follow us on comcast if you are looking for more ways to spend your quarantine so yeah, thank you again sam and angela. Its been such a wonderful event and thank you to our audience for joining us wherever you are. Weeknights this month we are featuring booktv programs has a preview of what is available every ban on cspan2. Tonight starting at 8 00 p. M. Eastern we begin with Dinesh Dsouza who examines what he calls the new face of socialism and then stacy abrams former democratic candidate for georgia discussing her blueprint to end Voter Suppression and later fox news Chris Wallace providing a history of the lead up to the bombing of hiroshima in august 1945. Enjoy book tv on cspan2. The president s, available in paperback, hardcover and ebook from public affairs. It presents biographies of every president inspired by conversations with noted historians about the leadership skills that make for a successful presidency. In this president ial Election Year as americans decide who should lead our country this collection offers perspectives into the lives and events that forged each president s leadership style. To learn more about all our president s in the books of featured historians visit cspan. Org the president s. Available in paperback, hardcover and ebooks. Wherever books are sold. Hello everyone. My name is Vanessa Mendoza and i am an adjunct fellow at the Manhattan Institute in your host for the Young Leaders circle. I think all of you for taking the time to attend this event today, both as members and general membership. I am so sorry we cant all be together in person although as i much hope it will be informative but in the meantime it is nice to connect this way and stay tuned the Manhattan Institute is putting together a ton of virtual content that they will be rolling out over the next few months