Grandfather, president Dwight Eisenhower and the important decisions he made during his presidency. Watch booktv this weekend on cspan2. Good evening and welcome. I am liz hottel director of events and marketing. Thank you for joining us here in this new space where we continue to bring vital conversations to our politics and prose community. If at anytime during the event tonight you can click on the green button below to purchase books by tonights authors on the website carried every single book that is purchased tonight will come with a signed bookplate and we urge you to support us, barbara and jia by purchasing the books. I know that many of you already have copies but im sure some one in your life needs one and we can send it off to that person. Another way to support us tonight is by using the donation button at the bottom of your screen. We are not charging for this program, but any contribution you can make so we can continue our programming is valued by us. You can ask a question by clicking on ask a question that can be found also near the bottom of the screen. You can read other peoples questionpeoplesquestions and vs they would like to hear answered the most. If you have any technical issues tonight, sometimes it happens, we recommend first try refreshing your browser, switch over to chroma if you need two and three, try headphones. It helps. Tonight we are here to talk about economic inequality in times of crisis, or the only thing, the only thing right now. And no one in the world speaks truth to power like Barbara Ehrenreich. The witness to refusal to accept easy answer and nickel and dime in her extensive career of investigation and activism, her determination to impart social change and economic reason is distilled in had i known, her new collective essays. Jia tolentino has become an essential processor for all of us through her work in the new yorker in her collection. During the crisis, her work has taken on a more urgent and acted voice, culminating in the piece on the evidence of mutual aid and is this weeks new yorker. Both are required reading for any citizen of our time. Please, help me welcome Barbara Ehrenreich and Jia Tolentino to politics and prose live. Guest hello, theres a thousand people listening. Its wild. Its incredible. More than would be in the bookstore. More than we could ever have live. Its funny we were just saying before if any of you havent gotten had i known, i highly recommend it. All of the things we are speaking about right now, like how absolutely ridiculous it is that there are billionaires and frontline workers, all these things. Shes been writing about these things for decades. It was a delight to interview her. I interviewed her for the new yorker. Its good to be able to talk now. I think for you and me, we are a little bit biased. Our brains naturally go to the fact that the story of consciousness and labor, this is a single story of the country. We both are inclined to think that way, but to me, i wanted to ask you how much do you feel like consciousness has changed, has been at the forefront of the last couple of months . Guest not enough. I think that its unavoidable. You cant avoid the fact that the stimulus package is aimed towards the big corporations and the wealthy. How people are absorbing this and beginning to try to act on it, that is the story in which you did a great job in this weeks new yorker. What is it on the mutual trade associations that are forming, scrubbing of spontaneously around the country to help with things like groceries and getting people to the doctor, stuff like that. I love that piece. By the new yorker or whatever you do to read these days. Host whats on that piece thats interesting i think its true that the stimulus package is almost laughable. And the fact is into emergency sort of mandatory sick leave and corporations employ more than 500 people that are exempt from it. Theres so many ways that the actual legislative negotiation of who is getting help right now is an obvious nightmare but thats what i mean i dont know if my perspective this way but from the last couple of months but it seems to me like so many of these Mutual Aid Networks are springing up because of the florida increasingly mainstream understanding like a the state isnt doing its job, legislators are not doing their job, like mutual aid isnt going to factor into the disadvantaged communities. Its amazing how mainstream this idea is. The there is something on the government comes to the use of arms from prison and things like that we dont have a welfare state. People are losing jobs. This is the estimate now. I cant even imagine that. This is much more unemployment than that. Host dont even get me started. It is particularly hard to judge things when we cannot congregate and see people in large numbers. A lot of my own history has been with both crowds its only not advised. So, its hard to see and one of my favorite organizer friends. And they keep trying to fight against trying to find it but there are certain things there are certain aspects that are reminiscent of the thirties with transit workers and hospital workers but there is still this rising discontentment that you cannot acknowledge it and each others presence so for example the fact that we stare down 30 percent unemployment. And it seems impossible for anyone to come out of it thinking we shouldnt have universal healthcare. On the bright side that we are learning. Now i am not a statist. Eileen more and artistically but towards the anarchy but when you realize that nobody will come to your aid. Thats when you say we have to do this. To the people as the world. And to confront my own statist leaning because people listening there is a fundamental tension like getting each other groceries or have access to pharmacy trips because there is a question are they doing what the state should be responsible for or what has never done for many people and doesnt show any interest in doing . So with that state point of view i was much more like a lack of imagination on my part. As everyone and is commenting and saying that many of us developing the consciousness of the quality and economic oppression and to me while interviewing for the new yorker about any sort of workingclass life thats why the reporting project is one of my favorite things if anybody listening is a familiar like many of my favorite stories every year and we can abbreviate that. But to me i feel economic inequality by the media in this that i think that people will always talk about we are in this together when very obviously it is not an equalizer black people or three more times as likely to die or whatever the statistic is or three quarters of the hotline workers are low income people of color so these low pay healthcare jobs are held by women. The facts have been clear but what do you think about that . How has the media done in reporting . Not so bad. I am thinking seriously mainstream fake news et cetera. But i think the New York Times and the post have been pretty good at constantly bringing this up and that something. Are there any examples that spring to mind that you thought of . I just think the times coverage in general. But you are a better judge of these things you walk that line journalism. Im in my bedroom like everybody else. [laughter] there was an oped an incredible oped how like the transit workers have been treated. A god a lot of exposure and the fact there was that really great piece on healthcare workers including the lower paid transporters and Environmental Services people like those were not like the doctors or nurses necessarily but im also wondering to what degree these narratives are reaching people that are not aware . But we keep trying. In our different ways. I feel very frustrated that i cannot talk directly to the people. Its not that i am a show off or went to be the center of attention but i feel a sense of a platform and people interacting with me enough right now. You agree and you are much more out there right now than i im. You are right there is a way if you think about the lines of people voting in wisconsin or in South Carolina protesting with the fact it takes such a risk it is devastating for the organizing you want to see right now. So talk about amazon. I know your cousin has been involved and we talked about that in her interview. So early on the amazon workers in new york were the earliest to strike because somebody contracted coronavirus and then amazon retaliated the nurses who have spoken out about the condition. I saw your optimism book to put out this internal communication that said please only positive statements about the hospital. [laughter] but with amazon thats one of the most prominent it really has tried to tamp down on this worker organizing but it was called out in the attorney general said we will investigat investigate. So talk to me whats going on in amazon right now. I cant tell you as an insider but i think what is happening is kind of amazing. It is nationwide, entirely done by telephone and online. And it is attracting a very interesting diverse mix of workers which amazon has with ages and skin colors and national backgrounds and everything. Its amazing they get along. And they are really excited and they are moving place to place building on the success. Amazons response to the promise or the threat of reopening has been to cut the pay they were paying 17 an hour for new workers. That was two dollars more but as of may 1st im just looking this up, it was clawed back. So the heroes pay that lasted 30 days. It is a lot. Thats what i sense is going on in general as people think about gearing up going back to work or possibly opening those factory gates again the companies are thinking we are giving them jobs and doing them a favor. They are jobs they already had i hate that language giving people jobs people give you their labo labor. So there is some pushback now coming from the ceo to say we have suffered a lot during this crisis. We have seen our stocks go up and down in crazy ways. Now we need to be rewarded. So the workers have to take a hit. But one of the things they are whining about that amazon is for the paid sick days no way they will pay sick days anymore and these are the basic things we talk about for everyone. Right. I dont know if im just delusional but the fact it is glaringly obvious in the back of my head that america is the richest country in the world and has the least safety net than anyone but how does anybody cannot opposing this with mandatory sick leave not Just Companies . All the things that we dont have. Then you think of the election. I cant even think about that. What has made you the maddest . So if we are just sitting what has infuriated you the most the last couple of months . A lot of things infuriate me. Unfortunately. I think the attack on the workingclass going on now in the United States as a whole infuriates me. It is taking people who have been underpaid and abused during their work lives for a long time and kicking them while they are down. What more can you do then dive for your employer . And that seems to be the new deal. If you want a job . Be prepared to die. And i dont even know where to start with this anger. How do we do this constructively . And to me when i think about that one of the things i worry that people already see lowwage workers as expendable with a tendency on the part of the wealthy to see poor people as deserving of their status if you make 12 an hour than that is a moral failing that you cant make more but it seems clear than ever that it so arbitrary that i can work at home but i other people cant it has absolutely nothing to do with what we are doing but everything to do with accident so to cement that implicit understanding that people who have to deliver packages and check out at the Grocery Store that is their job. That is what they do. If you dont have to do it , its for a reason rather than no reason at all. That fills me with dread. I also think at the same time that it is more clear for 17 an hour. Yes. I dont know whats going on with the cautiousness of so many of the lawmakers. If we are looking at something of 30 percent unemployment by july, that is worse than the Great Depression this is beyond our imagining. We have no welfare state no way to care for these people medically. What are we thinking . I am worried because i am always a little more apocalyptic lee inclined i cant help that. And here it is, right in front of us. We have to get that mutual aid philosophy that you write about in the new yorker this week turning it into a general class consciousness. I mean to exclude too many people. Because there are people now who will see very hard times who never imagine this coming in their lives. But starting to say some people could work at home that was the clue because he would work at home . The fedex delivery guy . Know. People like you and i, we can work at home. Just look at the Racial Disparities a pretty Strong Majority of asians and white people can work at home but black and hispanic people, the thing that i would say that made me the maddest is have you see where meatpacking plants that this is the job mostly done by immigrants. It is farm working conditions for your are not unsafe but you have to be close together. The governor of south dakota said the outbreak with meatpacking employees like do two Different Things that immigrants do. [laughter] is that why cracks i think even alex as are said something similar but thats like what you said the legislators are implicitly blaming the lowerclass and it is ridiculou ridiculous. That has been a team on the right for so long if you are poor or hardpressed economically, it must be because you are doing something wrong and not living right or having too many babies. You are an addict. All the ways to shame because the affluent feel very good to say i have done everything right. But that is about to change. Looking two weeks into the future people are scared. If they are shooting each other in a mcdonalds dining room because they are told to socially distance at the Family Dollar store, what next . We have an armed population. At least the right wing part and people are angry and nobody says how to direct that anger. I grew up in texas and my mom works in a Hospital System there. And and to dismiss those that want to reopen in the economy but to me the fact when the states announced to reopen so here is a way to cut off unemployment or having unemployment to people. And nail salon workers have to go back to work it will make money because nobody will come in and they cant get unemployment. What next . And then i start feeling like that. [laughter] there are traditions of mutual aid. You mention the history somewhat in your article. But. Or the selfhelp and mutual aid. To be around healthcare were your own clinics teaching women how to do their own pelvic exams and if these doctors are going to remain then well do different for ourselves. So that we can do things and i feel the same way about reproductive rights. Its easy enough to abort a tiny fetus but why dont we just say we can take this into our own hands . That for some women it just seems to me are for a lot of women trying to get an abortion there are layers of these logistical obstacles that people are now understanding for the first time. Its hard to leave my house. Its hard to get childcare. Dont have money. And i talked to a woman who had to fly from texas to colorado just to get the Abortion Pill at seven weeks. She should be able to do telemedicine and get it in the mail. And to see those are nationwide. But mutual aid with that bedrock of interaction. But there are so many parts in that book with the people you are working with at the diner somebody got kicked out of their temporary housing. And with that mutual support and that they are more than philanthropic. And not so we have to build on. We have about 20 minutes left. And those how many people voted for them and those that have gotten the most votes. So do you think that pandemic will change to the idea. That is synonymous with intelligence. Thats one of the many myths. Are we reading different questions . Im not reading anything. Do you think that pandemic will change attitude store the welfare state . I think its been pushed as far left as it should be but i do think it will. Its not a good idea to make any type of prediction. And then to change toward the welfare state . Thats the top question. Yes. And right now. Years and years ago. Especially low income women of color they need direct financial assistance. And then they tried to buy a house. Are you satisfied with the level of attention from the Biting Campaign on these issues . [laughter] now. [laughter] i was looking up something on youtube earlier and i just wanted to put my head through a wall. Now to the degree. He has gone push left they were further left than i thought they would be that i cant stand it. It is heartbreaking. No. Of anything about biden. And then to go out there and vote. And in that primary. This is a great question at the access to Public Education and how is access to Public Education going to be change by the crisis . I have been thinking a lot about that those that are a magnifier of an economic inequality. And then to boomerang right back into the situation the difference between their home life. And bay at a College Level for some reason and a a lot of the students dont have internet. And the ways in which they will be bored and stressed as children. And then watching out for them and deeply on the other and do you have any thoughts about that quick. But one of the things that is revealed is how important schools are as a feeding center for our children. And what happened to that . Lets going on . I wedge to the welfare state. This is with all the debates when it was up in the air in new york. And this is the most reliable deal they get and for me that it is exactly the way income inequality harms the Public Health for every Single Person in this country is one of the most obvious examples. And then the epidemic in new york would be so different. It is the domino effect. It is a good advertisement. But i dont know what happened. But that the schools have opened. And then you can pick up a meal which is good. And those to make up for all those other programs that are lacking. The next question. That we have 1200 people attending that conversation its coming out some places activism doesnt necessarily need people in the street but it needs something any thoughts how we can it organize right now . I think to some extent this is what i think about this. I talked to son disability activist when i was reporting that mutual aid piece because some have always had to organize and had to learn to provide services remotely and it reminded me it is possible. This is one of the many things from a long time. I think there is the unprecedented amount of organizing but the question i is, where that goes. I thinking about politics a lot lately. Has to go somewhere new. Also someone natural leaning if they are physically together. And to work on that in a warehouse but how do you choreograph that meeting . And then one of doesnt make sense and that imagination. And with that strike it was opening a bit and a lot of that was organized but it is hard. But it is a symbol for the democratic socialist of america or was. And the linkage that skin to skin linkages so much. Im here with you. Now we need all of you smart young people to figure out new ways to do it. Does a modern american and workingclass have a breaking point . Or is it the boot stamping on our face forever . Who asked that question . And things could go different directions. So i dont make predictions there is a definite breaking point when you cant pay the rent or put food on the table. That the only hand is a disruption maybe thats the only thing that we can do. And with those political ties. And to get attention. One of the movements ive been most interested in in oakland talk about direct disruption it is amazing. Talking about i need a vocal coach because i say like to match. [laughter] i say the words like and you know too much so i need a speech coach. [laughter] i thank you speak fine. Sometimes writers have to do these things. And those books that influenced you . I just have one with fiction or nonfiction and to be a writer. That was more my family background which was bluecollar. And there were classes in American Society so today and those even among the left. But they would recognize and racial terms. But otherwise it is so weak. But we have to get back to that. Nickel and dime is pretty informative for me. But books like evicted and one of the favorite nonfiction books ever. But they should be reading random families. I love evicted. And then they speak to income inequality. They are not like statistic things of the abstract and that is what you portray to be deeply human. Or what it is. And thats why these books have such an impact on me. One more question. How are journalist and writers helping to reframe the narrative from what. I dont know. [laughter] let me pull up something at that was amazing. But you try to be your best every day and that is the best you can do. I have a better answer to the question. I grew up with people who are truly conservative. And those that think the minimum wage is fair. And there is no time more to fuck around but i have been heartened at how much more they are putting things. But then on twitter it was surprising the new yorker published like the family robinson piece and the quicker and more directly people can call bullshit. We cannot beat around the bush but you havent. We can speak plainly and its possible to say socialism. That is unthinkable. Im sorry. And talk about medicare for all. Now what is the alternative . If i have the last word here, and with my Technical Assistance and also a writer. And the troublemaker in many ways. And if i have a last word what you would be thinking about how to frame socialism the way it should be framed , somebody wrote a piece how americans are so used to accepting the abstract idea of freedom such a great last of freedom. Instead of the concrete freedom to be protected in the workplace. And then these ideas it is the basic idea of freedom to be coopted. The means welfare and security and safety net. I think that concludes our our. And thank you for engaging in this conversation. And just a reminder of this say on we put on these events but we need your support. Click here to by both you will get a personalized update. And then will continue to bring you programs like this. Check out our website for more information. Thank you and stay well read. This picture on the left is a real picture . Yes. [laughter]