Jake let me welcome you to our screen. We are delighted to have you with us this morning. Thank you for being here. Thanks for having me. The rest of our guests are familiar with Jake Sullivan but he served in the Obama Administration the National Security adviser to then Vice President joe biden are the also served as deputy chief of staff and director of policy planning for secretary of state Hillary Clinton and brings his expertise in policy to the record of having been on the president presents a campaign trail last time and this time with the biden campaign. He began his career with Amy Klobuchar and we are really divided to have them here for conversation. What is it going to look like in january 2021 when the new president takes potentially the next president comes into office with an extraordinary set of challenges and circumstances, a pandemic, and economic crisis, social justice and Antiracist Movement here, the challenging of American Values and interests abroad. This is against the backdrop of a dramatically changing world. We want to start with the big picture about prior to in the Biden Administration and first of all fundamentally how do you envision joe biden, President Biden would shape and defined americas role in the world and how does that contrast with that of President Trump . First of all thank you so much david for having me and to ambassador bill for kicking off the program at the atlantic counsel for putting on what has been a remarkable week of programming to really try to lift up the conversation around american foreignpolicy and americas role in the world. I would say that there are four basic elements to the biden approach to foreignpolicy and National Security the contrast in dramatic ways without the Trump Administration has pursued foreignpolicy, National Security and strategy towards america. The Vice President fundamentally believes we cannot succeed in our foreignpolicy a free app not invested in our sources of trans transit home in our ever structure, in our innovation and our workers and our immigration system and yes in our democracy tackling issues from the strength of our institutions to the ongoing scourge of systemic racism and the Vice President fundamentally believes unfortunately that the Trump Administration simply hasnt made these investments over the last four years and the result of that is the american model on the global stage the extent to which the rest of the world looks to us with admiration has eroded so badly that at this point many around the world actually are looking toward places like china than they are to the United States in terms of the successful model for governing the economy. Second its about allies and i wont go into this in great detail. You know this extremely well the Vice President believes the United States is stronger in these working along the lines to achieve common objectives. The Trump Administration and the president himself see allies more as a liability. The Vice President believes very strongly that the u. S. Has to be at the table in the international cetaceans helping shape the solution to the problems that no country can solve on their own whether its Climate Change or Nuclear Proliferation or Public Health related issues or terrorism. That goes by the way also for shaping the future rules of the road when it comes to trade in International Economics as well for put a Top Administration has walked away from multiple tables outright and left the Iran Nuclear Deal in the Paris Agreement the Nuclear Arms Treaties that w. H. O. And finally something you mentioned in your introduction which is values. Joe biden believes that what makes americans policy distinctive as we are not neutral between opec rats and the people seeking basic human rights and human dignity. We choose sides and he has rejected to this presents cozying up to dictators and opec rats and turning a blind eye to the abuses of human rights and the prescient democracies around the world. Interference of countries like russia and the american and european democratic system so he will put values and democracy back at the center of the u. S. Foreign policy Going Forward and thats not just the right thing to do, its the smart thing to do to rally likeminded Free Democratic nations in common purpose to both push back against authoritarian competitors and also construct and build the kind of longterm Durable Solutions for the challenge this that afflict us all. Sar to go on for so long but when asked the question about the differences i think its important to give the viewers a fairly conference of overview of the foundation. It thank you very much jake. Im going to unpack some of these conversation but i want to invite the audience to go ahead and contribute your questions and if you are following us you can add your questions into the q a function you can use the a sea lions 2020 and send us questions it will get to later in the program. Let me continue that with the big picture sense of this preview yourself are a strategist and i think last night the Vice President you have laid out some principles that would inform a biden approach. Do you see a place for a sense of a restoration of a grand strategy for the United States in a different world . Some have said the Vice President brings incredible relationships to the potential that given his tenure at the relationship is built with leaders around the world and question whether that adds up to a coherent grand strategy for americas role. How would you address that issue . I actually believe the Core Principles that are the foundational pillars that i just laid out to do actually end up lathering up to a grand strategy for the future. A grand strategy thats fundamentally designed around number one being able to compete from a position of strength to seeing the intersection between domestic policy and foreignpolicy not nearly as an abstract notion but as a strategy. Really the kind of investment that joe biden has built back in our agenda to put the United States on a Firm Foundation to be able to play a leadership role in the world, that is a big strategic move and if hes able to pass that agenda that will be significant points on the board because david as you know if you go back to the postwar era and post1945 there was a lot the United States did in terms of its engagement on foreignpolicy but it was built off of an economy that was growing, middle class that was growing and Industrial Base that was growing and so for him strategy begins with that piece. Then i would say the biggest element of this strategy is actually saying look it is time for the United States to truly pull together the likeminded democracy to develop a set of clear priorities around dealing with the rise of china, round dealing with the threat of Climate Change, round beating this pandemic and then around establishing a baseline for cooperation but also for rules that will end up creating a longterm circumstance on everything from technology to trade that are favorable to the United States. You put those two things together the investment at home and then a Central Trust and purpose with likeminded democratic allies and i think what you have is making a strategy that then can be applied in a regional context aware that the asianpacific or europe or the middle east or america. I would say the last significant piece in terms of this kind of goes to the shift in one of the big objectives and what the Vice President was in this regard we got to rear a nicer security toolkit in a way that elevates prominence over the use of military force. We talked about producing the overall role of United States military across the broader middle east and south asia increasing the extent to which the u. S. Is on its front foot from the perspective of diplomatic engagement coming gauge went through development, engagement through institutions and as i mentioned before alliances. This is the ultimate competition Going Forward as being one. There will still be a military dimension of course but increasingly rooted in technology, economics and yes political systems. What model should prevail as the model to be emulated to be hooked up to and so i think whats interesting about this for pillars as they convert fairly well into a coherent sequenced prior ties strategy that will have genuine shape and purpose when the Vice President is elected if hes these fortunate enough to win in november. Jake the Vice President had a major voice and foreignpolicy and the Obama Administration. The world is evolving for years and some art concerned about linear extension or back to the pass. How to anticipate the Biden Administration would differ from the Obama Administration as they move forward . You know its interesting he talks with respect to the economy and the United States about not going back to the way things who are not Building Back to the way things were before but Building Back better and he would apply the same basic logic to the approach to the world. We cant go back to the way it was before. What we have confronted in the world is different then when president obama and Vice President biden took office. First we are dealing with a more assertive and more aggressive more risktaking chinese common as party and Chinese Government and so while the Obama Administration initiated pivot and asia recognizing that the u. S. Had elevated engaged in the u. S. Pacific in a wide range of tools i think the nature of the u. S. China relationship in the u. S. Strategy towards china will continue continue to evolve in the biden and. Second the emphasis, the deep emphasis on defending democracy which has come under increasing attacks over the past several years so reinforcing the foundations of our democratic alliances and our democracy as well as our own democracy is a point of emphasis that is much more significant, much greater than eight years ago and then third i would say we are coming into office in a moment. We thought 2009 was bad with the economic crisis. If you look at what we are facing now in the global pandemic, Global Economic crisis, a global migration crisis and increasing competition the pieces that the u. S. Has effectively on that board all of them will require refurbishing and updating whether you talk about alliances which will have to be modernized for the future or International Institutions which also will have to be reformed and overhauled as we go forward. The Vice President talked about rejoining the w. H. O. But also reforming it and even great achievements like the paris climate agreement to the Vice President said its not enough to go back into the paris climate agreement. We have to set the next level of ambition to get herself and make sure we are bringing the rest of the world along. Those are some instances and where i think youll see an approach thats not different in its fundamental belief and american engaged in the world and the importance of american diplomacy but that will be different in the face of significantly different circumstances. You underscored how china is playing a more aggressive role today than even four years ago or so. How do you see striking the balance rum competition with an aggressive china but also corporation on issues that you have outlined whether its climate or others that will require more Global Cooperation and how do you start to allens and what would you anticipate in managing this complicated relationship with china . I would start in answering that question, i traveled with Vice President biden to beijing in late 2013, not too long after the government had announced an arab defense identification over the use of the china sea. Basically they said if you want to fly airplanes you have to notify us first. This was an aggressive move. It was a move of international law. So the Vice President went to beijing in particular to kate to xi jinping that if they werent going to recognize it and they were going to fly or aircraft or military aircraft and we wouldnt comply with the perspective was nolan boyd which wed did and he looked them in the eye and he made that very strong statement. He stood up for our prerogatives and their allies prerogatives and yet in that same meeting later in the agenda he talked to xi jinping about how the u. S. And china could Work Together on Climate Change and how we could eventually build at the lateral agreement as a foundation for the paris climate agreement. That initial set of conversations opened up and translate into what we saw the following year with the Bilateral Agreement between the u. S. And china. Justin that one session you could see how President Joe Biden could compete vigorously in push back firmly stand up strongly for the United States and at the same time be prepared to work with china in the interest of the United States to do so. I think hell take that same basic approach. He will seek to compete from a position of strength but he will also work with china and any other country on those issues where they can advance the basic purposes of Foreign Policy. Jake let me turn to the middle east an area where you have particular expertise recently published an article in Foreign Affairs about an approach in the region. You are heavily involved in the Iran Nuclear Deal in the previous administration. Yesterday we hosted the United Arab Emirates leaders from iraq. There is a very complicated conversation about what the United States world should be and are approached. How do you see this for uke called for something that was more ambitious and less ambitious at the same time they can explain how you see a potential Biden Administration approaching . If you look at the last two, three decades really in the middle east the United States has in my view place too much emphasis on too much weight on the use of military tools to try to achieve outcomes and agendas. We have thought the presence of u. S. Troops in the use of u. S. Force could help us secure and more prosperous and peaceful mud and more stable middle east. From my perspective the less ambitious means that we are going to pursue less than the way of the use of military force to try to generate durable outcomes and more ambitious needs that we are going to set our sights higher in terms of the diplomatic outcomes we think we can achieve in the region including diplomatic outcomes that many people today dont figure particularly plausible. You mentioned the doctor and bringing to mind the recent uae israel agreement which is an important step forward in also a reminder that longstanding entities can be set aside or at a minimum can be deescalated to one of the things i talk about in the piece is not just renewing a hand reviving effective diplomacy with effect to iran and its Nuclear Program so we permanently prevent iraq from getting a Nuclear Weapon but also working with regional partners acrosstheboard to reduce tensions, to deescalate complex, to defuse in scythian crises in and that it would be pushing both our friend and adversaries in the region toward the table to Start Talking about ways especially in iran to dial down the tension and the pressures. That is highly ambitious but i think if United States puts his shoulder to the wheel from a diplomatic perspective that only can we deal with irans Nuclear Program but we can deal with the great underlying sources causing tension in the region. We are starting to get some terrific questions coming in and we will turn to them in the second. In the zoom q a function. That may turn to russia and Vladimir Putin a report that just this week of the leading opposition in russia poisoning in siberia. We have a tense situation underway where the protesters on the streets in cities across the country protesting against what looked like a fraudulent election and rumors of potential russian intervention. How do you focus on a russia that president obama very much acknowledges is a declining power and yet is still wreaking havoc in the neighborhood in ukraine or georgia or belarus potentially and repressing those at home. How do you deal with the conundrum of Vladimir Putin . Biden has been very strong over the course of this campaign and standing up and speaking out for things like free and fair elections. He put out a statement on this and over the course of his time as Vice President going back years in his time in the senate he has stood up for democracy and freedom and Democratic Institutions across Eastern Europe and across the country in russia. He obviously is set in independence and sovereignty in the face of russian aggression. As president Vice President biden has taken the Vladimir Putin. He knows the man. He knows the dangerous path that russia has decided to pursue and he will be robust and vigorous to fight back against that. More than that he will really invest in rallying our allies and partners in the region so that we are presenting a common front, common push back against russian aggression, russian interference in elections and we are speaking out with a common voice against the russian country and abroad to suppress the right of its citizens. You will see the Vice President being steady and constant in clear on all of these issues even as again as in the case of china he will look for opportunities words any americas interest to sit across the table from russia and try to work through things such as for example getting back to arms control and arms control diplomacy like the kind that. The obamaBiden Administration. Banks take credit want to pick up on a couple of the questions coming in. There are a few that i will start within its area of the atlantic counsel that weve been focused on looking at the end up innings of american foreignpolicy and the domestic underpinnings and what happens at home with our role in the world. They are a couple of questions here. One, you mention the Biden Administration bringing democracy back on center stage. How can we achieve that goal as it deals with polarization at home and the challenges of democracy at home and racism at home . Its a je good question and im glad you asked it because i was remiss when i laid out the core part of the strategy and not unpacking that a bit more. Its not going to be easy. We have a substantial gap right up at the Gallup Survey into the Trump Administration shows the respective role of america. Countries are looking what happened in the United States right now starting with this president but also i think the murder of george floyd in saying how much stock should be placed in United States when we speak to issues of injustice and progress and human rights and dignity . We have an immense amount of work to do and thats why when you asked the question about strategy and effective strategy for american engaged meant good start with making those deep investments in the strength of our own Democratic Institutions and progress on issues like dealing with systemic racism. Thats a big part of joe bidens agenda. He will be working on that from day one and that sincere goodfaith effort combined with treating our friends with respect being engaged in the world and having a conversation where we acknowledge shortcomings and infirmities and point to a way to better tomorrow, i would think there is a way if we are humble about it, if we take your time with it. We cant our fingers and say hey we are back baby, we will steadily engage a new respect and a greater understanding to the rest of the world while doing this profound work at home. The linkage of these two things could not be more important and anyone working on u. S. Foreignpolicy United States cannot just take a passing interest on what is happening inside of our country that is so foundational to our capacity. I think that such important point that i was struck by bidens own words of the example power of her example rather than example of our power. The secretary of state the Truman Administration argued in the wake of world war ii that american segregation and oppression of africanamericans in the United States was an obstacle during the cold war. That is fundamental in something we understand in that connection. Another question that came in what are some of the areas of Foreign Policy where you see the most influence for the progressive base of the Democratic Party and how does this take shape in shaping the biden campaigns position . Its a is to a thing for me what ive watched over the course of the last four ears with the Democratic Party with robust and vigorous discussions across the spectrum of the party is that theres a more convergence and divergence between the center and the progresses within the party then i think a lot of articles about the divide is laid out and the growing consensus across her party that is timed in the forever wars that its time to shift to a more sustainable approach to dealing with terrorism. That has been something where you see convergence and second i think new and differently about trade and International Economics to put the middle class and work in people of United States at the center of Foreign Policy. There are number progressive voices who have contributed to the conversation as well. Third, a really interesting convergence around the issue of democracy is standing up for Democratic Institutions in the face of autocrats. Actually Bernie Sanders use the phrase in a speech in the primary of the axis of authoritarianism which sounds like it could have been but the recognition that the authoritarian capitalism that this model represents is a real Pressure Point on a free and democratic society. Those are just some examples where he think we have developed a common sense effective sustainable foreignpolicy vision that meets the American People where they are but also rallies the Diverse Voices in our party. We are talking a lot about and one of our viewers is asking how can the United States and the multipolar world and what does Leadership Team today when art necessarily countries and not enthusiastic about following . Leadership test to have a more humble and collaborative and more inclusive dimension to it but nonetheless the United States will still have to play a central role as a catalyst in mobilizing common actions to solve problems that no other country can solve. Without the United States its not clear to me even in a world with a different power structure in the different distribution of power that someone else were to step up it would be good for the u. S. Interests. It does not make sense to me from the point of view of delivering on the core objectives of Foreign Policy so whether its with respect to Climate Change or whether its with respect to taking the next step in terms of reforming the International Trade system whether its beating covid19 and delivering vaccines, not just to americans that the entire world theres a central role for that i stood to play even if at the same time we have to wreck a nice way of going to be dictating to people. We are going to be calling the shots. We have to leave the nest and frankly much more 21st century formal leadership with easy not just with respect to International Affairs but in business, and politics in so many other features of our society and the form of leadership that recognizes on certain issues others can step up and be in the cockpit but the u. S. Is there to help set that agenda instead of driving role. I believe we are not only capable of playing but fundamentally interested. We are bring in a few more here. One of our attendees is asking about turkey and the relationship with president erdogan and how do you actually think about the challenge of the Eastern Mediterranean where america has friends and partners on both sides of the struggle from syria to libya. How do you deal with turkey under president erdogan and what are the American Interest in the Mediterranean Region . Well we have a number of interests in the mediterranean garden was trying to produce a level of stability that can reduce the humanitarian catastrophe that is unfolded there including a poor strong support for the state of israel and its security. Also a desire not to allow for this kind of instability that produces humanitarian outcomes but to be a source against extremism and violence that represents United States. In addition we have an interest in seeing both allies, historic allies and other countries with whom we have had good relationships over time and would like to build even better ones even with huge internal challenges and issues related to corruption, issues related to institutions and when it comes to turkey specifically the Vice President has a longstanding relationship with president erdogan and a has sat across the table from him many times and has had Difficult Conversations on a number of challenging issues including the crisis that he has had to go and try to deal with in person or on the phone. And so we would work one way or another in a relationship with turkey and tried to get on a path where we are Standing Firm on the importance of democratic pluralistic values and committee getting that at the same time we are working to try to ensure that every including turkey is contributing in a constructive way, constructive way to reducing violence and increasing security across this entire span of existing and potential conflicts. Sticking to our allies would have a question from one of our viewers and i welcome back to the alliance question. You mentioned your remarks about modernizing alliances i think you said. How do you actually restore americas global standing and that he restore our alliances u. S. Soft power and what does this mean for nato korea japan . What is the best way to restore americas strongest alliances . There is getting back to the table and getting back with our allies in asia to a Common Security and military defense agenda so there are the breadandbutter pieces that have to be reinforced and refurbished after four years of donald trump. But then there is incredibly important work to be done in developing a strategy with our allies on big ticket less traditional security items for example in technology and how to deal with the question of the challenge china poses across the line of different areas in second on cyber and the threat to all of our countries from cyber actors both state and and Third Corruption at the democratic elections and having our alliances and fundamental National Security challenge and having the same muscle around that as we do around the european continent is going to be incredibly important. In the fourth take a question like climate. Climate has profound National Security and for us to have that issue play a core central role in the way we speak about the design and the agenda will be very important. You know more about this and you have forgotten more about this than i known you devoted to higher session to the ways in which the nature of the Security Threat is change and therefore our alliances had to change and this has been talked about for years but in substance it hasnt happened. We have a tremendous opportunity coming in after Trump Administration to do this work in a big way and in a bipartisan way. In a way you can bring democrats and republicans along because i do believe our alliances are in an area where there is a substantial amount of bipartisan agreement. Thank you jake. Thanks for that. One of her guests and something you just touched on there what would an Administration Like they do on doing international and diplomatically on global and social media platforms to help us address the issue of foreign interference in the domestic elections in the u. S. Elections. How do you deal with that challenge. Thank you michael for that question. See it a great question. The first thing we do is in the politicization and frankly the shocking steps that have been taken at the various Public Diplomacy platforms of u. S. Government to get genuine professionals to work, free to do their work without political interference and then bring in a whole range of diverse new faces and voices to help design an effective strategy for social media platforms and frankly for every platform to push back on the kind of disinformation and misinformation that we see from not just russia and then also to have an affirmative way of communicating a set of issues and a set of principles and priorities from the United States that reclaim some of what we used to have back in the cold war but now in a fundamentally different way. We are still relatively young i guess but i feel like an old fogey when it comes to some of this stuff. We need the next generation to step up and say how do you meet people where they are and how do we assess and respond to the threats which are constantly evolving in this space as their adversaries learn and increasingly creative ways and not just our state isis was incredibly effective in social media programming and trying to inspire violent adherents and other parts of the world. This is going to be a big focus of the biden presidency if he is fortunate enough to be elected but itll be a scenario in which it starts getting the right people in place in and the right expertise in place and the right strategies in place to be able to do this work. You hit on the Global Leaders is one of the fundamental to bring in more diversity and thats a good point. Im going to wrap up as were close to the bewitching our pay the question came in but i just want to ask before we rap and let me find it here from thomas cunningham. How does present by an allied climate and treatment goals which are linked on the scale of the Global Economy and its imbalances so how do you think about this with climate and trade and what you would want to accomplish in this administration . The Vice President has been clear that climate considerations will be a fundamental part of any future trade negotiations that take place and people have labor and environmentally advocates not just at the table but even from a takeoff of the design the construction of these agreements so we dont just bring in it so theres a big process for having the right voices that will be fundamental but the Vice President has embraced going back a year now to the United States is going to have to have in the sense that we are in a circumstance where we are elevating our own commitments on climate and clean energy. We cant allow other countries to undercut us with industries which make goods cheaper in flood the u. S. Market and erase all the gains that we have made via moving down the Clean Energy Pact with the Vice President has said the right answer to that is those countries that are basically not complying and the climate agreement europe is talked about something similar. U. S. And europe will have to figure out how to align but that is an example of how the Vice President is thinking about climate and trade and an integrated way. The last question is a good question but a short answer. If selected from one of our viewers what would be the major platform policy decisions we can expect in the first 100 days of the Biden Administration a simple question and one jake. The first 100 days of the administration on Foreign Policy. That is a great and difficult question. The Vice President is basically said right out the gate bring the countries in the world together to elevate the mission. Rejoin the jcpoa and immediately begin negotiating on the agreement that deals with some of our ongoing concerns with respect to a Nuclear Program. Pull together a summit of the worlds democracies so that we begin to design that they sick agenda that ive been talking about and the forever war some bring our troops home safely from afghanistan. Those are just some of the steps that the Vice President will undertake in the early phases of his administration and i could probably go on for a very long time to give it thing he will do right out of the gate which will require a careful review of where we stand at that moment is where do things stand with the china trade deal . Currently china has not lived up to its commitments by any stretch of the advantage nation no matter what the president says so how do we think about putting ours china strategy in the footing where exactly advancing u. S. Interests and not strengthening chinas hand in the way we have seen it done under the Trump Administration. I am undoubtably forgetting things. Thank you so much for your time and thank you for joining us from New Hampshire payday cant think of a better way to wrap up the first week of the Democratic National convention other than his conversation with Vice President biden security adviser. Jake thank you very much want to encourage all of you who are watching to stick with this next week is the Republican Convention kicks off. We have a full lineup of programming at the atlantic counsel beginning monday morning to do when the Council Counsel front page will feature mike pompeo with the spotlight tuesday on foreign interference in american elections with Facebook Twitter and the department of Homeland Security and we will follow on wednesday in a conversation between representative mike turner and michelle for night on defense policy and posture as well as the conversation on china with Kurt Campbell and randy shriver. I will be followed on thursday with a terrific lineup of political cultures and analysts are looking at americas role in the world and closing out the week on friday with the National Security adviser obrien. Stick with us at elections 2020 where we are putting a spotlight on the conversation to think about american foreignpolicy and National Security and americas role in the world to thank you for being with us today and thank you jake and thank you ambassador bell. Last night joe biden accepted the democratic president ial nomination during the Democratic National convention could be hear