We feel incredibly lucky were able to offer virtual events, and we wouldnt be able to do that and gather and hear about the king of confidence if it wasnt for you all showing up. So thank you for doing that. Id like to quickly go over our zoom policies for tonights event. We do ask that you keep your video feed disabled for the duration of the event. If you do enable it, well kindly disable it for you. If you enable it a second time, we will regretfully have to disconnect. We appreciate your cooperation. Were going to have a reading by both miles and donovan to start us off. After miles reads from the king of confidence which was actually published this past tuesday and donovan reads from the inner coast which was published early last month, in june, were going to hear an extended conversation between the two of them for about 3035 minutes, and were also going to have a few slides here and there if needed to add some supplemental images, and once were done with that, were going to wrap thing it is up with an audience q and a. So if you have questions, please feel free to seven them my way. Ill be fielding and screening those to share with the no, sir x. Now im going to quickly read some bios. Miles harvey is the author of the International Best seller the land of lost naps. His book painter in a savage hand was named Chicago Tribune best book of the year. He currently teached at depaul university, and his e conversation partner is the author of moby duck, the true store [inaudible] John Kenneth Galbraith award. His second book, the inner coast, was published by w. W. Norton early last month. And i think a lot of us already know this, but both oaf these men graduated from the msa program at the university of michigan. Just a few blocks away from the bookstore, so i wanted to kind of share that tidbit for those who maybe arent familiar with that. Otherwise, i would appreciate it if you wouldnt mind putting your virtual zoom reactions together for tonights first reader. Harvey, thank you. All right. Hey, miles. Hey donovan, good to see you. Yeah. Your msa program was fiction, mine was poetry, which is probably why your book is longer than mine. And also we both teach nonfiction. Its really nice seeing you here in the zoom space. And i want to be clear to everyone that this is miles event. He kindly is sharing the stage with me. Its actually, im going to get ahead of you with your reading and quote from your book when the antihero of the book,ing whom youre going to tell us about tonight, is getting crowned as king, and you write somehow this man, this fabulous king managed to convince the 235 lonely souls gathered in the tabernacle that his paper crown was a dazzling rye until die cra dem and that his floorlength red robe enveloped him in righteousness and splendor. So in tonights event, we dont have 235 lonely souls gathered in this tabernacle, but you are the king with the paper crown, my friend. Im going to be george adams, the theatrical impresario. [laughter] so why dont you start, i want to, i do as i said to you before end hand, sometimes with nonfiction books we end up being quoted forth as experts on the subject. But i really loved your prose. So i want you to read some. And i think youre going to go with something thats going to help us understand the title of the king of confidence. And i, your prose. Thanks, donovan. Bennett, if you could just put up slide one, i thought id introduce our audience to the title character of my book. All right. There he is. Okay. So im going to read a little bit about this man, james j. Strang, and his time period which is the antebellum era which are the decades leading up to the civil war. And this is the guy. And you wonder how he managed to establish oh, you can leave it up. Bennett, you can leave slide one up. No one wants to watch me read. There we go. [laughter] so if he doesnt look like the most charismatic guy to you, listen to this. Although James Jesse Strang was physically un imposing a few inches over 5 feet and bald he did possess one distinguishing feature, husband dark brown eyes which one acquaintance described as rather maul but very bright and piercing, giving an extremely animated expression to his whole countenance. Ott claimed those another claimed those ideas seemed as though they could bore right through a person. But more than any tangible attribute, stranging possessed an ineffable aura called confidence. In those days before electrical power, confidence was what made the antebellum era hum. Confidence was black magic, good fortune and hard cash combined. Confidence could turn worthless paper into glittering gold, cow towns into cities, empty lots into bustling businesses, losers into winners. Countenance was a charm deployed by bankers and merchants. Philosophers and clergymen, card sharps alike. The soul of trade, without it, added herman melville, commerce between man and man as between country and country would, like a watch, run down and stop. In an age before the federal government began printing paper money, an age when people had to trust in privatelyissued bank notes, glorified ious, confidence was the de facto national currency. So thats what this guy possessedded, and confidence and his ability to wield it was what took him from being an obscure farm boy in new york, a failed lawyer, failed newspaper publisher, failed postmaster to the mud west where we then called the far west with he became a more month prophet and a real threat to Brigham Young and the church and where he ran a couple utopian colonies, one of them in michigan on Beaver Island. But i want to talk about your book too. I thought we took a word out of your title, lets take a word out of your title. Coast. What is that all about . Yeah. So my book is called the inner coast, and i thought a lot about the adjective expect noun. Expect noun. Dont do the now, because here we are virtually speaking, youre in chicago, im over here on the other side of michigan. But part of what i was thinking about, i grew up on the coast of california, but as the son of misplaced midwesterners and ive spent much of my life here up by the great lakes. And i kind of want to make the case for the great lakes and the coast. Coasts have always been contact zones between the here and elsewhere. The word coast derives from latin for rub, and in middle establish [inaudible] could still offer you a coasted lamb, meaning a rack of ribs. The seacoast was the root caves of the land case of the land. In it primary sense, coast refers to the place where land ends and sea begins. In that sense, all coasts are, by definition, outer and oceanic ones. The usual return for the edge of a lake or stream is bank or shore, but the maritime geography e of the midwest [inaudible] is a paradox. Michigan is my western. Its mid western. Its also coastal. Peninsular, in fact, its shoreline speckled with empty lighthouses longer than californias, floridas and about every other state besides alaska. Standing on a midwestern beach, you can watch freighters slide across the horizon. To coast to travel by water while keeping the land nearby. And in that sense you can coast through the heart of north we can. Circumandahalf sating all of the states east of the mississippi without ever laying eyes on the pacific. These days the word coastal is as sociological as it is geographic in phrases like coastal living or coastal elites, the word collapses the west coast and east into a conjoined seaboard supposedly inhabitedded by decadent fist cants as if brooklyn were the next berkeley or boston in commuting instance of seattle. Certain chicagoans or holidaygoers on michigans gold coast might qualify as coastal in this sense, but not the residents of gary or sandusky or mill milwaukee or of deerborn. Or a neighborhood on the northeast side of detroit that has become popular with immigrants from from vietnam. Ill stop there. A little taste of how im trying to make us think anew about that word coast. Lets go back to confidence though. Because you got, you touched on you brought in melville who wrote the confidence man, and he talked about how this idea of confidence both required economically but was also a kind of secret power for the charismatics like strang. You talk later, can you just tell us the story of the origins of that word . You actually quote the newspaper story that introduced it into the lexicon. I was fascinated by your book. Among all of the materials youre drawing into the story, youre also doing a certain amount of, as i was in that passage, it no logical excavation it no logical. Youre reminding us what parts of the american vernacular originated in this antebellum period, right . And some of it is strange now. Like, you do a whole theme on the idea of thinking, which i loved. But whats the origin of the confidence man . So its really interesting you say that because one of the fun things i did with this book is i kept finding words that were not early enough in the Oxford English dictionary. As a lot of people in our audience know, oed is sort of the gold standard. And i looked up a word in a newspaper story from 1820, and it would be, like, 1890, and i would write a little letter off to oed. Thaw never wrote back. Laugh confidence man [laughter] confidence man, that comes to us during a period where everything, theres been a, an economic crash that the country still hasnt recovered from, its a massive technological revolution are. Youve got the telegraph expect photograph, the railroad. Theres a Communications Revolution that is like the internet superhighway in a lot of ways. So this confidence becomes such an important thing. In 1849 a guys aced in new york, and arrested in new york, and a new newspaper calls him confidence man. Hey, hey, donovan, dont you dont remember me . Come on, man, you dont remember me in and then of course youd be very. Embarrassed. Miles, oh, miles harvey. Im kind of hurt by that, could you just give me his watch . People would give him their watches. But this word spread like wildfire. And its really fun to watch it spread through the American Life cycle of this time because it describes so many people and so many walks of life. And i think strang kind of epitomized this. He was a guy who was able in this period where truth was malleable, where, you know, facts werent really facts a lot like our own times in some ways people thrive in those times, and he was able to kind of invent his own truth and pull it off with a kind of bluster that people wanted to believe. Beautiful, beautiful. Im going to do something a little weird, miles, because i want like, strang as an historical figure, from a writers point of view, its a treasure for you. You know, you discover, you write about it a bit. But i wanted to make you speak a little butt about the index of your book and the acknowledgments. The way i think about how this book works is youve got this central figure in strang, but hes almost hike almost like a planetary object whose force of personality exerts like Gravitational Force on the antebellum, 19th century of really the whole nation. With the wonders about the book and if you go on is collecting all of the historical figures that you up gathering into a narrative. Without all of that, we got barnum, bronte, john wilkes booth, and henry clay, and darwin, and this guy shores who invented the corti keyboard. Somehow you have managed it is this magnetic parcel area together that outlet. And in your acknowledgment to kind of talk about that. You cite at the beginning you talk about this trump story. Men of the crowd and how there is a central figure of a man who was once arrested and absorbed, tell me about how you think i went to explain that analogy. But its not a traditional biography of your book. At least three good books about strang. They are very good. Im not being the least bit dismissive here they tend to treat him as either a footnote to more of a history or a michigan story a midwestern story one is the assassination of the king. From the start i saw stang as a lightning rod for the enthusiast and social movement. And apocalyptic fears of the ag age. With an embodiment of this crazy crazy time. Stars are writing about those because i so admire you and you dont do the same thing. But you do something similar. The new york review or the New York Times got the very nice review call myself a wonderfully digressive which is the biggest compliment ive ever had your boy getting the big picture. But ive got to go back to you on this. I think you are one of the really most wonderful writers today and doing exactly what you just praised me for. Thats the story a million time times. I think its the second acacia called the romance of rust. This acacia, i always tell donovan, this was before i knew him. Was a real source of inspiratio inspiration. I reddit one day maybe it was 20 years ago, 16 years ago, long time ago. I was just a good time where i needed to be inspired by another writer i started reading about an antique tool collector. I was kind of interesting i am into have written about collectors before. I was interested in them. But the way you brought american history, american commerce, our desire, the commercial desires into that peace was just incredible to me. Unit talk about that . Yeah, sure. Yeah that one for me was an important one. Because i had been writing nonfiction, but it came to nonfiction by way of poetry which is not that uncommon people come from it from one of those genres are the standards on the programs but our earliest acacia were more to the personal acacia to do what i do in this book so something comes from entomology you detecting the pheromones and youre going to follow. But when you have this is fascinating and then your mind starts generating questions. Leading to that i have some ideas about the questions might be behind the confidence. So to that acacia i have great affection for the lives on the outskirts of ann arbor was a botanist by training. I must collecting kind of by chance happen to pick up to branches that were identical. Many have the vision of symmetr symmetry. Found two specimens at the same plant but they were wrenches. Effectively began collecting from all of the upper midwest. Factors, estate sales, foreclosed farms, all of these artifacts of history, right . So he turned out near dexter. Initially start with one party turned into this kind of museum messiah open to the public where he had these arrays i like the artifact. These were like specimens, they look like fossil dinosaurs or bugs has like 100 theyre all identical and he will make one array of that. Sick cabinet of wonders but not of the natural artifacts and that for me became seriously fascinating. And then accompanying him narrative yet to try to create your own museum of an acacia. I actually think there is a way which are doing something similar here which is your charisma attic figure you are following. But then she allows you to file your own curiosity and question questions. And make things speak to other so that somehow the inventor of the corky keyboard is adjacent to the guy who introduced the tomato to the midwest as a medicinal plant is wonderful accidental to come out. Think we may be working from a similar method which is why i may have such admiration for you as a writer. I always tell my students i dont make many predictions about the future writing but one of them is i just feel in my own work in a be interesting to hear from you within example as i feel like writers and curators in the digital age are becoming more and more similar that but its an active storytelling. For me thats all really cool i love that. I think increasingly i find myself, this book had a 250 timeline or is listening in the world and they are. Its kind of an narrative making machine. Ill give you an example. Ill do another quick reading if you dont mind. If you could just put up the picture slide number six. Here comes, i thought i would read im going to read two really short paragraphs. And then just in between them i will give a little explanation. I want to read the syllabus about islands. Islands, Edgar Allen Poe wrote in the stormy seas of the psyches place is a perfect security where freedom from all restraint can be enjoyed. Tiny cosmos were normal laws, normal rules of conduct in normal systems of logic dont apply. They are frequent locales for experimental communities including the original utopia which thomas moore set on an island in his famous 16th century book. And i would just say there are many things we can say about the community ahead of Beaver Island into being a fascinating place but its almost controversial. But i want to talk about the drawer. Sometimes you think this guy what was his draw . I think one of the things we need to understand is what apocalyptic times these were. Write one strand is trying to start this colony on Beaver Island and really push it, that this was the year of just pop elliptical fevers in the United States and the world. I thought i would read about those and then you will see why this is here. Strang spent the summer of 1848. What he described as ominous signs including a series of revolutions in europe, u. S. War in mexico and rising tensions between north and south. Having his followers prepare for the ends right now that we wanted that the time draws near he wrote, prophetic events are crowding close upon one another. His newspaper even reported that the fishermen had spotted a huge sea serpent off the coast of Beaver Island. One of many such sightings around the world during the potentials years of 1847 and 1848. Twentyfirst century perspective of course its hard to make of such an outlandish claim. One possibility is to quite its late michigan monster with the beast from the sea whose appearance heralds the apocalypse in the book of revelation. Knowing that smith had claimed such beasts symbolized quote unquote the degenerate kingdoms of the wicked world unquote he may have hoped to underscore the idea of Beaver Island is a new zion of prophecy. That Promised Land were according to the teachings of the latter day saints would help gather to usher in the Second Coming of christ and the advent of his 1000 year reign on earth. I should point out that this picture in front of you is not an illustration of the sea monster that he said was spotted off the island great but it was one of the many sea monsters that legitimate people thought they saw and 1847 and 1848. This is a Royal Navy Ship that spotted the sea monster somewhere. So that just gives you a sense of intense. We are talking about. And so strang, i was not his only reason for going to that island. He also started a criminal enterprise. You can take it down advantage. He basically had a pirates colony going out where hed sent people throughout the lake and to steal horses and other items. Is a lot of controversy about this, early writer said theres actually no proof that strength hold off any of these crimes and that it was all antibias. Theres plenty of anti moment bias that strang pulled off these crimes. And one thing the confidence does is move that along a little bit. There is pretty solid, undeniable realtime reporting and strength times in this book you discover theres a whole chapter on. [inaudible] in ohio. If i caught it right like this is new research. Guest yes thats all new. I think it is important first of all the 19th century journalists in small towns in perrysburg ohio was a wonderful, sarcastic writer but this is important because in real time, the story one after another comes to this town, theres a posse set out hes caught hes brought back is one of his top lieutenants. The paper reports on that. The paper reports on strang coming to town and that strang will get this guy out of jail. As a child the guys found guilty its overturned on a technicality that the sheriff did not thought of form or something. Its how the technicality seemed to be broadly hinted that it was corruption. And sure enough doesnt go to the state penitentiary stays in the local jail. There is a jailbreak and he is gone. And he returns to Beaver Island. So there is a lot more of that. Hey, i was wondering one of the things both are interested in, in my reading has shown the landscapes of the midwest out of that. I wondered there is some stuff from. [inaudible] the introduction which this came out on in early june on reading set that i havent read before this is a couple of paragraphs that youre right think it, the way think of all these essays they have a formally and systematically preoccupation with the idea of excavating. I think for me i some of his kind of an adoptive westerner, i think i grew up as my family was very nostalgic for the illinois prairie, i gripped the kind of mystic midwest. Not just that but meeting the whole project to try to do certain excavation. In the book, your book, this is the midwest liquid never imagin imagine. Its one thing, something i love about the idea of islands as it feels to me like your whole book is doing the logic of the microcosm. Here we can look closely at Beaver Island and tried to become that representative man of this. And so many ways. You didnt mention the rest of his career for state legislature, right . And meteorologist at the dawn of meteorology and the scientific. To his credit and abolitionist when that war approaches, right . So really a represented figure. Then the island becomes concentrate of america out there in the middle of lake michigan. So to me my first expense in this part of the country was a farm when it came down to our family, i got to paragraphs i will read about it. The farm it was passed down from generations but is in door county near the edge of lake michigan. By the 1970s the farm is no longer operational. The family had held onto it as kind of heritage to which increasingly scattered tribal make pilgrimages sharing meals and communing nostalgically within agrarian past. They survive in a place is likely a museum exhibits included an empty red barn, an outhouse with the splintered door, a hand pump that drew water from a well, amber flypaper that spiraled from the farmhouse rafters. There also a few chickens including one whose beheading i was made to witness as an initiation into the sort of portable and invaluable life farm life in part. Headless chicken ran a lap around the chopping block. As feet was gruesome and comical. At the edge of the farm was a shallow body of water called loft leg. According to legend a loggerhead one winter drove an oxen team across it. Would harvest timber which comes up and near folk, green gold. It was harvested timber his wagon had supposedly broken through thin ice, dragging the logger and oxen with it. A fate compulsively thought about paddling around my brother and a dented aluminum canoe. It was shallow you could touch the bottom of your paddle. But the bottom assist silty and soft the paddle blade would sink into it as far as you could plunge it. Never touching hard ground. Who knew what was down there, i imagine that you fell overboard and tried to stand you get sucked into the muck disappearing one of the hapless like the prehistoric animals, miniature horses with cloven hold sabertooth targets for a watering hole and end up drowned and entombed. Which is perhaps how it had gone for the logger and his oxen. Although i had never visited them the tara pits were prominent feature on a landscape of my inter life. Settle for me one of things i need to do is a writer is have images they become work is motif so the idea of things being very down there that you cant see its kind of, especially for collection of essays which is like a collection of poems is a different kind of unity that you have because you have a plot, right . You weave mind together you have an actual plot here and want to talk about that. I was thinking a lot i want to make sure we have time to open up for questions. Q. [inaudible] a credential historian you do not have a phd in history. Im really curious because i have tried to work im very curious about your methods in the book. About i know you spent years visiting archives and all the rest. Im also wondering if you did the kind of thing that i know some trained historians do. And the writer must have done because youre trying to bring the story to life with the kind of sensory detail and immediacy we might encounter any model. There is a moment there like two dramatic climaxes in this novel. One is when the u. S. Navy sends the gunship to Beaver Island which is amazing. Its perceived in the true ending. Its really good. The tragic story of christ in the end one moment he sailing to go out to Beaver Island from the deck companions conceded densely force the shorts of Northern Michigan which hundredyearold coffers survive here and line it with their fresh underline that mode because that seemed to me exemplary of what distinguishes the kind of narrative with the creative nonfiction youre doing here. Literary story here julie sometimes he scholarly history. That reminded me of the historical imagination to imagine yourself into these moment. So when you talk about the method like how you go about getting a sense of place and detail . So first of all its a little tricky to talk about this. Not completely but it would be one exception in the last 40 years im guessing. I dont really want get slapped upside the head by some of my colleagues. We went academic historian has pushed back on the narrative. And i understand when youre telling a story or not telling another story. My own feeling is if you crave narratives. I have a lot of work to make up for when the head of history because i have to learn it. Sometimes it gives me the vision is a book called natures metropolis it is a classic book about chicagos role of the west. And i just reddit from reading that book being fascinated by the michigan pine trees being cut down and settling the prairie. Its called green gold. So these are really precious commodities. And then when ever you can, i dont think you make stuff up. But you know that when someone is standing on the deck of a ship and anyone who has driven into the upper zones of michigan knows what its like to get out of a car and smell the pine. Ten so just wanted to get that little moment right. We stood up to some friends of ours that built a log cabin in the upper peninsula. We would drive up on a hundred degree day in an airconditioned car. Suddenly we would get out north of green bay. And that smell would hitch you. I wanted to get that in the boo book. And so i am a defender of negative storytelling and history. And i love doing it. But i have a lot of work to do. And i have to be so respectful of the academic historian. Speeches this is something that i Pay Attention to well you do credit them. Its more than just a courtesy, you quote their books and you honor their titles. I think the book you may be quote the most often or the title but i noticed most often join chautauqua that briefly before we third open to questions. I was astonished by how much route fashion this is. About how people are dressing, but then there is this whole story about female attire on Beaver Island. So maybe tell us about that. For two to about missions with going to be about fashion right . No, i found it i think a lot of the book is about gender roles in the 19th century which were absently fascinating. So people, women on the island started wearing pantaloons basically pajama pants tided the ankle ten years before the feminist art and bring them as a symbol of the womens rights movement. So they were so far had the time which is one of the interesting things. They look like big skirts little bit shorter in front and then wearing some real non sexy pants. But at the time they were really shocking. And eventually strength said that all women on the island must wear pantaloons. And this became sort of the outward point of rebellion that led to his assassination. My own feeling is it was much deeper than that. I think we have something we can think about right now. The weight masks have become the symbol of loyalty or non loyalty, right . So if you worn pantaloons or if your wife work pantaloons on Beaver Island you are with strang. In the same way that until yesterday when the president announced that masks were okay, its not boring masks of the symbol of loyalty to the president. To some extent i think aside from health and safety, trump believed people on the other side were Wearing Masks just to show their opposition to it. Until of course theyre always Political Part one of the great joys of this book was thinking about gender relations. Margaret fuller is a great photo feminist at this time shes fascinating and a good writer. We talk about fluidity now, she was saying no one as complete man completely woman theres a huge range great this is really interesting stuff. There are many, many interesting aspects that i love writing about. [inaudible] traveled safety in which the freedom to the man right . Cement before go to questions lets put up slide number five. Bennett can you go to slide number five . The first life elvira passing strange nephew strain for many months for the east coast 1949 as a confidence man is introducing this young man and his nephew and personal secretary in fact she was a young one named ove ira field who was secretly married. We dont have time right now shes one of the most exciting aspects of this book is very progressive for this time. Thanks for that bennett. Host i hope we have peaks and curiosity. I think bennett, we should throat open to questions 4 mile 4 miles. Host thank you for the conversation the first question we have a miles of the book. I was hoping you could tell us you learned about why people followed the charlatan . [inaudible] thanks arlene. Great friend and wonderful writer. While i think people like strength right in certain times. And so those times are when theres just a lot of change. And the people dont know what to cling to. When the truth becomes really strength survived in his time. I dont mention the current president and the book, i dont mention current times in the book. totally understood newspapers and understood how he could not only get in the news through information highway that was happening at the time but how he could sort of control the conversation, and im struck by how many people like him are ahead of the times. This guy in 20s and 30s who implemented goat gonads and they wonder how he succeeded. He was a really important early radio pioneer. When kicked out of the United States 150 station in mexico and among other things he helps invents Country Music and radio. Hes a Brilliant Media guy and so i think that theres some like i think we saw in 2016 how Office Building outside of moscow, whatever can, can have an impact on u. S. Election. Again, i think being one step ahead of us with technology. Thanks for that. We have another one from chris, chris is asking a what the similar question about the parallels between everything going on back then and it goes down to our time is right. How much of the book did you feel was about now unless you want to take it so its interesting, you know, as i said in the last question, you know, i i didnt want to write a book about now and i didnt want i didnt want to date my book by mentioning trump or our current times. I wanted people to, you know, we all have hopes that theyll book will be read 10, 20 years follow n in the future. I didnt want to date it but its interesting, you know, and thanks for the question, chris, from the start early readers, you know, i sent out for blurbs and critics alike have sort of seen it, i dont know, kind of an our own times even though i dont mention my time. As an english professor which donovan and i both are, im a Firm Believer of humanities even though humanities is being cut. This is what will save us. The whole idea of humanities is by studying the past you understand the present and the future and so i hope my book can help do that. I know donovans will and surely, you must have been cognizant when you wrote two sentences on how they would be shadowed by the present. You lived in an era where you could be broke one day and rich the next. Anonymous one day and famous the next. Such precarious time when nothing felt stable, comedians like a man who is no longer there. So i it maybe a little bit it wasnt all like unconscious. No, no. It was conscious but, i mean, like i think i guess in answer to your question, i think i would have written a different book in a different time and i guess if i have if i feel lucky about writing this book, its only because of the massive bad luck we are all feeling not all. Obviously the country is divided, but a lot of us are feeling about having a time when someone who creates his own truth can really not just take over Beaver Island or get elected to the Michigan State legislature and have much more power than that in the white house. So, yeah, i i obviously trump influenced the book and the world influenced the book but i think its true for writers all of the time. Because its true. Other questions . Your mic is off. Thanks for that. We have one and they are both kind of talking about Beaver Island. What is it like now and you went to Beaver Island, how did that trip influence your writing and thinking and editing of the book . Well, i went to Beaver Island after visiting one of the questions Vacation Home of her family. [laughter] so it was so in one way Beaver Island, those of you know who it and im sure a lot of people know it, its very beautiful, beautiful place. One of the things that struck me about is how remote it still feels. We are in the south end to have island and i dont think we had internet in our house and we couldnt catch signal and it was for my teenage kids trauma, worst possible moment of their lives and for my wife and i it was just great. We set out and just layed out on the deck one night and watched incredible meteor shower and you thought they would come down and take your house, you you know. The mobs i was trying not to give away your ending. [laughter] yeah. But you know, got wiped off the island and maybe one, maybe two, but where you really see in place names. St. James is the only real town on the island. Kings highway is only real black up road in the island and that was the kings highway that he ordered his people to do. You really feel it but more than that, you can see this in donovans book. Donovan is go there and experience that kind of writer in the best way possible. I just dont i just dont i wanted i didnt affect the book any profound way but i wanted to be in that spot. Surely you had when you are putting yourself using historical imagination in place, maybe just subtle ways you have a sense, no, the distance between the north end of the island where st. James and the south end of the island where the fishermen in revolt, sense of scale, you know. Yeah, its like what you did with moby duck, bestseller, highlyacclaimed book which is amazing but its about, i dont know how many ducks, rubber ducks that get released into the ocean and where they all wind up, but its about many other things in that way that donovan was talking about and sort of writing both of us which i would hope if you dont like it its awful. Why dont they get to the point . But goes so many places in the book and sees so many things just to bear witness and i think bearing witness is just such a powerful thing in our culture and something we dont do enough of. It does feel cinematic. Iiknow you have ideas of who should play. Go ahead. Unlike history theres a kind of humor to this story telling that you almost need like a Charlie Kaufman or jones to adapt to it. You to get the town right because its serious. Its getting into serious stuff. You are trying to play with those the strain, the genre of the tall tale. Well, you know, i think voice is important. Youre such a wonderful voice writer, donovan, but for this book i just thought about it in the back of my head it is the barnum voice. I just like all we thought about, like always filtering the barnum voice, the phrase was always there. Bennett, if you can call slide 8. I have no idea who would play. But here is what my son, julian, 18yearold suggested. Here we go. [laughter] i find if you look at the nose of the two guys, obviously the eyes, i find it uncanny and jared leto has charisma. I feel theres a genetic tie here that only needs to be traced. But you know, are there any other questions because we donovan and i want to get to something before we close out tonight. We have a few more here that have been coming in. Im hearing that paul giemati. The late period, yeah. The cohen brothers. Perfect. Obviously questions on the connections between right now and democracy and specifically about that time and competence and theres one question that came up that has yet to come up that i would like for you to talk about and its regarding abolitionist beliefs and i was hoping you could talk maybe about how you shift in certain aspects and i think that one is coming from your wife. [laughter] thank you for that. What can we just say about my wife. She did shes a wonderful, wonderful chicago, but she did the audio book for this book and it was really fun to work, kind of work with, mostly just give her suggestions and she said im a professional and ive got this but its great. Im listening to a little bit of it so im proud to have mine out and associated with hers anywhere but the mortgage, so okay. So what was the question again . It was about abolitionists and i would say that theres one thing that he isnt slippery on, abolitionists. From a very young lawyer in new york, he expresses interest for this and i think one thing i did to push our understanding of this along was i kind of found out what might have influenced and took trip to virginia for a corrupt fatherinlaw was corrupt canal director and theres a letter from strang back to his fatherinlaw where hes shocked at what he sees and what he sees is slave labor and slaves working on the canals and strang sees horrific conditions and hes clearly shocked an upset by it and he carried that with him his whole career and he was in mission and legislature he worked hard against his own party, strang was a democrat and working with the new Republican Party which was brand new, lincoln, on behalf of African Americans and ordained a black elder into his church more than a century before the mainstream did. This was Something Interesting about strang. Just in general hes totally contradictory dimensional figure. Yeah, id love to. If you could go to slide 9. Donovan and i would like to talk about some other books you should read. I will talk about that and if you could go to slide 9, we each have books that we want to recommend to you just because bookstores arent, you know, fully functioning now and we just dont have the browsing capabilities so these are books, collection of essays by michelle, brilliant essays, start review today and they were raving about it. I think its the last taboo shes writing about. Shes writing about unconsummated passion, series of essays on unconsummated passion. Ive read several of the essays, its wonderful. Avalon new poetry collection by great and prolific poet Richard Jones who runs poetry east and its a great colleague and friend of mine and cargo falls cargill falls, a wonderful novel and we went to program together and this is his latest novel. Hes such a beautiful stylist and this is such a great coming of age story. I wont ruin it but its about a group of boys who finds a gun with live ammunition in the forest and so its its kind of quiet book with this intention every second of it. Thats mine. Donovan, what do you have . Can you go to ten, please . Let me move over. There we go. Okay. Ive also been thinking a lot about other writers publishing into a pandemic, strange times. First im going to recommend scorpion fish by natalie has my copy too. Wonderful novelist. Her newest novel on contemporary greece, economic crisis. Think of it as elena by younger writer who also went to michigan. I have been doing lots of book events with other essays, web essay collection published during the pandemic. This is debut by jordan, essays from in between. I first encountered in the pages of the believer, a terrific essay about a a strange volt las martas takes place in the texas border and doing really wonderful things with the essay, a new voice and my last one is a avoid the day by a writer named jay kirk and this book is so hard to describe im actually going read my blurb for it which goes like this which is avoid the day of the marvel, detective story thats dream of a memoir and hunt for ghosts, lost manuscripts hidden behind symbols but carrying childhood in mountains of vermont to the back waters to high arctic and coming out any day now. Its a july july 2020 publication. Those are my three. Final word. If i could just say one more thing before we close. Its sort of, you know, like the arts are so in trouble right now because of covid and bookstores have so in trouble and authors are so in trouble and obviously people in worst shape. My wife is an actress and theaters are shut down in chicago and going out of business, but i want to urge folks in listening to this to support literary and buy my book and donovans book. Im the biggest browser. We dont have the ability to browse like we used to. If you think about buying both of our books and i insist that you buy both of them, please do it now and please do it through literari. Ic we are i think we are in a time where we are going to see massive cultural fallout and buying my book is not proving that youre fighting that, but i just think its really important that we support bookstores, support authors and support the art. I will do amen to that by emphasizing that literari has been amazing host throughout pandemic for many writers an bennett has been the wizard behind the zoom curtain, so so thank you. What an honor to share the computer screen with you and bennett, thank you, thanks to huge crowd of people who showed up tonight. Thanks so much. I see so many friends names, its intimidating. [laughter] big thank you to both donovan and miles, thanks so much for stopping by and joining us. Thank you all of you at home for tuning in, we have 16 people tonight. Thats fun. I wouldnt be able to fit you all here in my apartment but i can fit you in this zoom meeting, thats really exciting to get to welcome you all. Hopefully we will be seeing you again soon and otherwise have a good night, stay safe and stay well. Here is a look at Publishing Industry news. Former president george w. Bush will public collection of paintings of american immigrants. The book out of many one would be released next march and include 43 portraits with accompanying biographies. This would be president s second bush of paintings. His first of American Veterans came out in 2017. Rick gates, former aide on the trump 2016 president ial campaign who was a witness in the Mueller Investigation and was in prison for 45 days for lying to federal investigators about his role in criminal financial enterprise plans to release his memoir, titled wicked game and mr. Gates says its not solicitous and taking middle of the road approach and charlie anne died last week at age of 91, books focused on race and class issues and the keepers of the house which one the Pulitzer Prize in 1965. Also in the news mpd book reports that print book sales were up 15 for the weekending august 1st. Adult nonfiction sales continued their recent uptick with gain of 19 and were led by mary trumps book which is critical of the president title too much and never enough. And the American Library association has announced their Midwinter Meeting scheduled to take place in minneapolis in january will now be held online. This follows the associations decision to go virtual with annual conference this past june. Book tv will continue to bring you new programs and publishing news. You can also watch all of our archive programs any time at booktv. Org. At the Common Wealth club in San Francisco former white supremacist christian described thoughts on why people join extremist movements and how to get them out. Here is a portion of the program. When we think about extremists or, you know, White Nationalist that is we hear about in the world today, we assume that they were always like that but nobody is born a hater, they find that as almost like a protective armor that they put onto protect themselves from the pain that they feel inside and they project that pain outward onto other people but every single one of us is searching for Identity Community purpose. At some point in our lives, we have to find that it develops our values and the community that were apart of, the family, so people who gravitate towards extremist movements, i talk about this in indepth in my book do so because they are searching for Identity Community purpose and not hate. Ideology is the final component that they find that lacks into place that allows them to then blame their pain on somebody else. But, of course, since we all search for Identity Community purpose and we are not all extremists, maybe in 2020 we can kind of but its a joke, but [laughter] maybe not. But i think what the differentiator is that its search for Identity Community purpose book but also a broken search where we hit what i call potholes in our lifes journey. Potholes are trauma and trauma can be a million different things, it can be abuse, poverty, loss of a loved one, grieve, to me i felt abandoned by my parents and can be Mental Illness and joblessness, poverty and privilege keeps us isolated from humanity, that can also detour us. So the potholes detour us to fringes where the extreme narrative live and extremist narrative and behavior can be anything from neo nazi, fly to syria to joining isis, to join a gang, becoming a School Shooter and even being a drug abuser. Thats a manifestation of extremist behavior and i think ultimately selfextremism could be suicide instead of taking your pain out on somebody else and taking it out on yourself. I think if we start to look at why the motivations of why people engage in these extreme behaviors, we can learn how to fill those potholes so that we can bring people back. To watch the rest of this talk visit our website booktv. Org and search for christian or title of his book, breaking hiatussing the box at the top of the page. Next on book tv Nina Jankowics looks at the Disinformation Campaign launched by russia against central and Eastern European countries and Harvard University professor cornell west leads discussion on black lives matter movement. Later several authors discuss their books on china and u. S. China relations during program hosted by liberty university, for more information visit booktv. Org or check your program guide. Good afternoon, im jane, president and ceo of center and like me youre probably suffering from zoom fatigue, however, tune in here this is a very important event and im excited. This is one of the zooms im really looking forward to because we are celebrating, hear this, a new book and an important book by our very own nina