Transcripts For CSPAN2 Hearing On The Census Undocumented Immigrants 20240712

What the president is now trying to do. Committed to counting every person regardless of citizenship or legal status under the rules of congress set in the census act of 1790. The decision to release this memo now appears designed to inflict maximum damage to the accuracy of the ongoing 2020s on this. In just two weeks, the Census Bureau will start visiting the homes of millions of people whove not yet responded to the census. With the fear and confusion and communities across the country and could leave many people to decide not to participate. This will not hurt communities that are already undercounted, underrepresented and underfunded. Addressing the chaos caused by the president to know well drained of eligible resources from the Census Bureau which is already struggling to administer in the middle of an unprecedented pandemic. And it will further divide the country at the time when we need unity. For more than two years he tried to add a Citizenship Question even though the studies showed it would depress Response Rates in many communities. When they committed the secretary and other Administration Officials denied they were trying to exclude immigrants from congressional apportionment and instead claimed falsely that the department of justice needed to citizenship data to enforce the Voting Rights act. The Supreme Court is all through their explanation calling it contrived and blocking the addition of the Citizenship Question. From secretary ross and attorney general barr refers refused to turn over documents about the question, the house held them both in contempt. Now the president is trying to gain to weaponize the census to hurt immigrants and help republicans. As the nation, we depend on the census to be nonpartisan, fair and accurate. As i told the director of the last time he appeared before us how the constitution requires it, the communities rely on it, and our democracy depends on it. We are here today at this emergency hearing because the Trump Administration is threatening this cornerstone of our democracy. We post are from four former Census Bureau directors who oversaw the census during the republican and democratic administrations. They will share their views on the president s unprecedented attempt is to manipulate the count and why it is important to count every person in the United States. And we will hear directly from the current Census Bureau director. I expect him to give us an honest assessment of how it could impact the accuracy of the census and with the burea that s doing to address this risk. I think all of the witnesses for participating today and i look forward to your testimony and recognize the distinguished Ranking Member for an Opening Statement. Chairwoman maloney, i appreciate you calling the hearing today on the 2020s in this. Let me begin by saying the 2020 census is counting every resident in the United States, regardless of citizenship. Any assertions to the contrary are scare tactics that have the consequence of reducing the participation and the census starting in august, the census will be naming out across the country to count on responding households. I encourage everyone to engage if they come to your door but if you are concerned you can complete your census online now at my census to get the 2020 census. Gov. I truly wish the hearing today for an oversight hearing of the 2020s. Unfortunately, this committee has conducted no oversight of these impacts. Once again, democrats are focusing their efforts on political issues, not the basic Good Government oversight this committee is charged with conducting. Last week President Trump took a very important under the constitution. The president directed the secretary to record an account for the house of representatives which excludes non legal residence in the United States including Illegal Immigrants. All americans should care about who is being included in the apportionment account. Including Illegal Immigrants and account for representation only does with the representation of all americans who voted into its a mockery of our basic principle of one person one vote. The president s action restores the concept of representational government envisioned by the constitution. In a country so closely divided as the United States, Illegal Immigrants and noncitizens have a material effect on the representation. Representation should matter to everyone. It is a simple matter of fairness. Predictably, the democrats will Interest Groups already filed lawsuits against the president like the sound and fury surrounding the Citizenship Question, the legal questions about the actions are likely to wind up at the Supreme Court. The hearing today is the democrats first shot across chief Justice Roberts and the other Supreme Court justices. The intimidation of the Supreme Court begins today. I urge us all to focus on the task at hand, the completion of the 2020 census count is now underway. With that, i yield back. Thank you. Now id like to introduce the witnesses. The first panel is composed of the former census directors. We are grateful to have their expertise. The first witness today is mr. Vincent who served as the census director of 1973 to 1976, and again from 79 to 1981. Then we will hear from Kenneth Pruett who served as a census director from 1998 to 2001. Next we will hear and go to robert rose who served as a census director from 2009 to 2012, and finally, we will go to doctor thompson who served as a census director from 2013 to 2017. The witnesses will be unmuted so we can swear them in. Witnesses, please raise your right hand, do you swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you god . I do. Let the record show that the witnesses answered in the affirmative. Without objection, your constituents will be made a part of the record and would that, youre recognized for your testimony. Stated the situations are real and their consequences. [inaudible] they are real in their consequences. The problem in the current action is that by reintroducing the desire of Holding Accountable citizen with any approach hes taken to ensure [inaudible] that is to make sure less people will be counted in states [inaudible] if this occurs, those areas will have the representation in congress and other legislative districts reduced as well and they will receive fewer government allocations based on the census count. However, the incorrect perception of the time by filling out the form is not correct because it is against the law. Any census or survey information that identifies an individual this is true even for an interagency communication. The fbi and other entities to not have the rights to access this information. Violating the confidentiality for serious counts including a federal prison sentence of up to five years and this fine is up to 250,000 a both. The protections have been challenged in the confidentiality guarantee. I will now provide an example of how the bureau and other agencies Work Together. August 13, 1983 that afternoon, four fbi agents arrived at the District Office in Colorado Springs on the search warrant authorizing them to seize the census documents including completed questionnaires and reports of their investigation of the case of the falsificati falsification. The leaders informed of the situation and after a brief flurry of telephone calls, we agreed [inaudible] while the questionnaire remained in the custody of the bureau. Ultimately, the documents replaced by protected by two walks with one key held by the fbi and the other by a local census official. Under this arrangement o only swarmed staff and employees but an fbi agent had to be present. When the door was locked debate co unlocked they would monitor activities of the census personnel. They brought in experienced enumerators from outside to review what was taking place and prepare the additional questionnaires. Census Bureau Officials prepared a report that didnt reveal any confidential information. As the chairwoman mentioned, i served as a director by five president s of both political parties. 1980 i had the honor of providing secretary of commerce with the Census Bureau statements with a number of representatives. I was also proud of the fact that the low income and minority population took an estimated jump nearly 97 . The 1980 census was also a demonstration of the nonpartisan manner. It was designed to end up planned during the republican presidency and successfully implemented as designed and planned. It will give to congres be up td the press to make sure that this information be addressed forcefully that is through motivation. The entire population of persons in the United States should participate willingly to reaffirm that everyone should be counted. Thank you. Thank you so much for your testimony and service. We will now hear from doctor john eastman, professor of law and Community Service Director Center for constitutional jurisprudence school of law and senior fellow claremont institute. Doctor eastman. [inaudible] should we go to another one . We seem to have some technical problems. We will go to the next speaker and then come back to him, because there seems to be a problem with connecting with them. Thank you. We will now turn to doctor pruitt. You are now recognized. Thank you very much, madam chairwoman. We know that this discussion will include concerned about putting the noncitizens and order the illegals into the apportionment account. I just have to say three things about that. First, the census has never done a. Second, they cant do it by asking questions. Youre not going to knock on the door and say oh you or are you not in the third, the administrative records are inadequate to do it. So even if it was a good idea, we do not yet know that we can do it. And with that as my starting point, i want to go on and say some things about the larger census as the Ranking Member invited us to do. We all know we are about 62 with response to self reporting, but that leaves more than a third of the population unaccounted for and i have to really stress this point. The nonresponse followup, hard to count very difficult since this territory as we all know and we are not in control. It is we as the Census Bureau or the congress or the white house in control of whether we will be able to do this count successfully before the end of the year which are now on that schedule and we know about 15 of the population has already told us they do not intend to cooperate with the census. I would like to make two or three quick points. The bureau will know as no other unit of government can ask the numbers will accurately reapportionment fairly distribute federal funds for a decade. It knows the census count as a denominator of all of the statistics we rely on, whether its the number of consumer products, whether it is a different rate of infection across the population groups and so forth. Every number that we use for ten years is anchored to the quality of the census. Secondly, the bureau knows that these statistical fact can easily damage and the numbers produced that will inflict on society will create serious damage and its not pretty. Ten years of Homeless Veterans because we dislocate their hospitals. Ten years of Tropical Storm Disaster Relief but is too little too late because Traffic Congestion is underestimated, tenures of planning because they have flawed estimates of how many firstgraders are going to show up. Ten years of a missed chamber of commerce because predictions of population growth and characteristics are offbase. We know that will be the consequences of the census that doesnt count as best it can. It is separate from is in the apportionment account. We have to start with a good census. The third thing i would say about this is the bureau will not want to inflict the damage that the flawed numbers will produce. The Census Bureau is too honorable, scientific, proud of professional standards and faithful to its constitutional duties they look to release substandard results. I urge the congress to share the burden and i would ask the congress to please appoint using some other institution of its choosing to produce predetermined Quality Metrics that can assess if the final 2020 members would easily match which the bureau knows they should be and has very good estimates from the demographic analysis, very good estimates of how many people across the states ill b all the way down e census tract levels. So if we could have this special group of experts to sort of create the metrics by which we will judge if we have an adequate census to do what its supposed to do and if not, what steps should the country take . Very good, thank you chairman maloney and other members of the committee thank you for inviting me to participate in this important hearing. I actually President Trumps productive is not only a good policy but perfectly constitutional, and i want to address quickly something mr. Pruitt said. I think there is a confucian between the two purposes we use the census for. One is for the apportionment of south by article one, section two. The other exercises the spending power or the commerce power to do a whole myriad of other things like allocate federal resources to determine where we are going to need schools and va hospitals and what have you. It doesnt have anything to do with the broader purpose of count on the census. And i think the political theory underlines the reason we have the apportionment clause is important so let me begin with that. We get our political theory from the declaration of independence. It sets out universal principles all men are created equal and that we are endowed by our creator with certain unalienable rights that we created those cre principles in a particular context, the declaration starts off by talking about one people separating themselves from another. It is based on the consent of the people to be governed, not on the content of the people elsewhere but on the consent of the particular people setting up the government. Those principles, the consent of the government find themselves s in under the text of the constitution from the beginning it says we the people of the United States. It doesnt say we the people of the world or any foreign nationals who happened to be present. If we the people of the United States. The languages in the next india push amend clause that representatives are chosen by the people, the same referring back to the people of the United States. And then it says that people again and they choose their representatives is on the total number of persons and that refers back to their representatives and the people in the several states. Proof of this is excluding indians not taxed. That was a clause designed to recognize and exempt from the census count those people who were in the states but not part of the body politics and noncitizens as the Supreme Court held, indians not taxed are excluded from the census for the reason that they are not citizens. In other words, the whole political theory of the declaration codified into the constitution is that we are counting people for the purposes of apportionment in order to reflect accurately the representative strength and divide equally and fairly their representation among the several states based on their numbers of people who are citizens and part of the body politic. I will give you an example. If the census, if the 1984 olympics were held in 1980 iindia happene1980 andhappeneds today, we wouldnt have added two or three congressional seats to california because there were a couple Million People visiting los angeles for the next. This has always been our history. Diplomats, visitors, they are not part of the body politic. They do not adhere to the necessity of the theory of the Representative Government. The Supreme Court has upheld this as well. Its recognized in the equal protection voting case that the number of citizens they refer repeatedly to the language of citizens rather than total population. The disparity between the citizens and noncitizens was roughly similar one district to another. So we didnt have to get into this question. But we are now in a circumstance where there are differences statebystate between a number of citizens compared to the total population. To continue to count total populations for apportionment purposes is to give way to people to states that have a large number of noncitizens living within their borders. That isnt consistent with the principles of the Representative Government. Its unfair to those states that continue to have on the citizens and particularly fair when the number includes large numbers that are not here legally at all. Its the vote of the citizens elsewhere in the country. Thank you and i look forward to your questions. Next is mr. Groves, and i understand that you have a hard stop at 11. You will be excused if you may have questions for the record. You are now recognized. All residents in the country some of the first words seem to illuminate the intent before the mandate is laid out in section two. Thats the qualifications like no person shall be a representative or shall not have the change for 25 years of citizens of the United States that shall be chosen so i know the designation of the word citizenship into the next section they are referring to the census or the apportionment in the house of representatives this goal of complete enumeration has been the basis of all synthesis. Centerdot with the basis of every apportionment decade after decade. Its the only event we have in this period which all persons participate. I am not a lawyer and just want to comment on the basis. I will comment on the critical needs of the Census Bureau Going Forward with an eye towards Quality Assurance and transparency. I have four points. One, the technical staff must be freed to complete the 2020 census and the maximum level of quality possible within the constraint of the pandemic. As you know the Census Bureau deliberated. Products. Requesting flows from the various stages of Data Collection. This delay in no doubt has saved lives and integrators and Public Service will make these efforts successful. I applaud them making this decision. The decision however forces to support this delay and congress to authorize it. Number two, all of us need to convey the message again very clearly that the 2020 census us to enumerate all persons regardless of the outcome of the administrations memorandum. It has the goal of enumerating all persons in the United States. We must double down on this message in the coming days. Number three, the Census Bureau should release all quality indicators of the measurement of citizens required under the july, 2019 executive order. In the census is throughout the world it is the responsible agency to produce official estimates critical to the Society Without prior testing. The attempt from the administrative record of systems and other sources with small geographical areas is unprecedented in the history of the bureau. With unprecedented efforts comes the obligation to inform the country of the strength and business of the product and i urge congress to assure i urge the Census Bureau given the nature of the Data Collection to publish intermediate indicators of quality. With Population Estimates from the demographic analysis and comparable tabular form and the initial field data from the post enumeration survey. Credibility requires transparency the sooner the country can see multiple indicators of the 2020 census quality, the sooner the case for the census can be made. In conclusion in the written testimony i look forward to testify before the committee. Thank you. We now will conclude the panel with mr. Thompson. You are now recognized. Thank you for this opportunity to testify before the Committee Regarding for july 212020 memorandum for the secretary of commerce on secretary of commerce on excluding illegal aliens from the apportionment based following the 2020 census. I am extremely concerned that this will affect the quality and accuracy of the 2020 census. The remainder of my testimony will focus on five areas that i believe are critical for your committee and the leadership in the department of commerce and the Census Bureau to consider. First, effects of the directive on the 2020 census response for the hard to count populations. I believe that the memorandum has a high potential to reduce the likelihood of census participation including non citizens and immigrants. A significant component of the plan to get a complete account of the populations. The 2020 census is important to local communities and responding information is completely private and not shared with any entity including law and immigration enforcement. Im very concerned that this will increase the fears of many in the hard to count community that their data will not be saved. The end result will be an increased nonparticipation and undercounted the populations. The Census Bureaus through the department of commerce as requested to extend the deadlines and the redistricting data about four months. Its critical that the deadlines be extended. The conduct of the operation to enumerate those that do not self respond, nonresponse followup is necessary for all populatio populations. Im concerned that it will force the Census Bureau to make adjustments. These will most likely include reducing the number of visits and increasing the use of statistical methods into a greater unit than the previous census. The consequence of action to underrepresent a hard to count populations and over represent other populations. The. I am very concerned that a much lower number of undocumented persons will be counted in the 2020 census relative to the previous census to increase fear that information will not be secure. At the same time a significant portion could be over counted. It will take very careful analysis to understand the properties of the 2020 census and to determine how many if any undocumented persons are included. This analysis will not be available when released. Therefore using the estimates of the undocumented relation to reduce the 2020 census numbers would have unknown and possibly serious adverse effects on the accuracy of the results and apportionment. Number four, there must be transparency in how the estimates of the undocumented population are constructed. The 2020 census is a foundation of democracy, and there must be assurances that any actions that would affect a census are based on objective methodologies. The longheld principle of the Census Bureau is openness and transparency. Five, the importance of not even giving the appearance of political interference with the conduct and tabulation of the 2020 census. Perceptions that the result is at the political purposes would ruin public and stakeholder confidence not only in the 2020 census but in our democracy. When i was directing the 2000 census as a career executive under the leadership of the Census Bureau director doctor Kenneth Pruett, we went to Great Lengths to ensure all stakeholders that the datadriven decisions were being made and there was no consideration of politics and the conduct of the census. I would strongly urge the Census Bureau and department of commerce senior officials to follow these principles for the 2020 census. In conclusion, thank you for this opportunity, and i look forward to answering any questions that you may have. The chair now recognizes herself for five minutes for questions. Id like to thank all of you for joining us today. It is powerful to hear from four former census directives have been appointed by president s of both parties. Collectively youve served us, richard nixon, gerald ford, jimmy carter, bill clinton, george w. Bush, barack obama and donald trump. July 21 to the president issued a memo directing the secretary of commerce to provide him with the information necessary to exclude undocumented immigrants from the census count for apportionment purposes. Many people have opined already that the president memorandum is unlawful and unconstitutional. Ive studied it closely and believe that it violates the language of the constitution and existing federal law. But i want to ask each of you the same question for a yes or no answer. In your opinion, and based on your knowledge and experience, does the president july 21 to know seeking to exclude undocumented immigrants from the apportionment based appeared to violate existing federal law and historically enduring fears of the constitution, yes or no . Yes. Doctor eastman. No. Mr. Pruett. Yes. Is. Mr. Thompson. Yes. Second question based on your knowledge and experience, does the constitution require the census to count every person living in the United States time of the census including undocumented immigrants . Yes. Doctor eastman . No. Mr. Groves. No. Mr. Thompson. Yes. The third question based on your knowledge and experience do you agree that the federal law requires the president to send congress and apportionment account based on the census count of the total population of the u. S. Including undocumented immigrants . Yes. Doctor eastman. Mr. Eastman. Yes. Mr. Thompson. Yes. At last come is a perfect all previous census is and apportionment account of the history of the united dates have included both citizens and noncitizens including undocumented immigrants, yes or no . Yes. Doctor eastman, yes or no. No. Mr. Pruitt. Yes. Mr. Groves. Yes. Mr. Thompson. Yes. I think all these answers speak for themselves. The president may not pick and choose who was included in the census count or the apportionment space. The constitution federal law and historic practice of the Census Bureau dating back more than two centuries require the census count and apportionment based to include every person in the United States regardless of their immigration status. I now yield to the distinguished Ranking Member for five minutes for questions. Doctor eastman, thank you for testifying today. Let me be crystal clear. I should support the president s order and i will start with a few basic questions. Questions. What is the constitutional and legal justification for the president s apportionment associate . The constitution says to count all persons in the several states. That refers to the people of the federal state and the people of the United States. In the tax exclusion clause that makes clear that it was designed to cover citizens. Those are the people we are choosing representatives to represent. It doesnt include people here visiting and certainly those that are here visiting a unlawfully. So why is this not a good metric for the apportionment account . For much of the nations history, total population was approximately district by district to the citizen population. That is no longer the case. And the political theory and the tax and efforts to the people contained in the constitution suggests that we now take account of the act that we have great disparities district to district on a number of citizens versus the total population. Will you briefly explain one person one vote . The idea set out by the Supreme Court in reynolds versus sam is is tied to the idea of the Representative Government that we should have an equal vote and who we are going to choose as our representative. We are not talking about other people in the world having a say in who they choose. Its one person and that means one citizen, one vote because those are the people choosing who is going to represent them in this particular place and particular government. Its not a world government, it is the people of the United States. So, for the issue at hand can you explain how counting Illegal Immigrants for the purpose of apportionment dilutes the political power of citizens and legal immigrants in states . Take two states like california, 2. 5 million estimate Illegal Immigrants. Thats roughly three or four additional congressional seats beyond what the citizen population word of mouth. You are diluting the votes of citizens in other places that have not encouraged such illegal immigration into their states. If our Representative Government is going to be based on citizens, then diluting the votes of citizens to overweight the apportionment in the number of seats and its not just in congress, it is votes in the Electoral College for president as well, and this isnt a partisan. California and florida and texas would all lose seats but the president order is upheld. Some on the democrat side and some on the republican side. It is the basic notion of Representative Government in who it is our representatives are supposed to be representing. And its citizens, not people from elsewhere in the world. So for the purpose of the apportionment doesnt distort the principle of one person one vote . It does and it dilutes the votes of the states that have low numbers of Illegal Immigrants or other foreign nationals within their borders. My last question how does the president s memorandum restore equal representation and apportionment in the house of representatives . It gets back to the apportionment based that i think the constitution envisions certainly the theory of independence and that is the people choosing their representatives but we are going to a portion of according to state and a number of congressional seats based on the not however many people we can cram into the state leading into the census to bolster up our numbers. Citizens that are choosing representatives and citizens that are represented into the apportionment ought to be. Doctor eastman, youve done an excellent job explaining this issue that i think an overwhelming majority of americans support. Appreciate your testimony and look forward to further questions. I will yield back the balance of my time. The chair now recognizes representative norton. Thin thank you madam chair. I appreciate this hearing. Id like to approach my question from a constitutional base. As the Trump Administrations attempt to exclude undocumented immigrants from the census count appears to be to be plainly unconstitutional. The language of the constitution is pretty clear. Article one, section two says the apportionment of representatives shall face the actual enumeration, and here are the words, the whole number of persons. Im underlining that. The 14th amendment says representatives shall be apportioned among the several states according to their respective numbers counting the whole number and here again is the word, of persons in each state. I dont see citizens and i dont see other word such as voters. I dont need to have taught constitutional law the way i did you dont need a law degree. In the exercise ive gone through, the persons of each state, every single person. Since most of you have been directors of the Census Bureau, for the record, i would like your answers to the following. In your understanding, does the term whole number of persons of each state include undocumented immigrants living in the United States . Yes. Mr. Pruitt. Yes. Mr. Groves. Yes. Mr. Thompson. Yes. Id like to ask each of you based on your experience, your Actual Experience and related questions. During your tenure as the director of the Census Bureau, did you have any doubt that the constitution requires the census count to include undocumented immigrants living in the United States . No, i did not have any doubts. Mr. Pruitt. No. Mr. Groves. No doubt. Mr. Thompson. No doubt. Let me direct you if the Trump Administration had any doubts they might go to the census website. Here is a question from that website entitled fighting the 2020 census rumors, setting the record straight. Our noncitizens counted in the census . Answer, yes. Everyone counts. Accounts everyone living in the country. This is on the record because anything any conclusions should be based on this evidence. The administration might also look at a lette the letter sento congress from the Justice Department in 1989 when george h. W. Bush was president and attorney general bill barr was the head of the Departments Office of Legal Counsel. That letter affirms the departments conclusion that both the enumerations and 14th amendment require, and here im quoting, the inhabitants of state for illegal actions to be included in the census. As the most recent census director on the panel, could you briefly explain why you believe that its important that the census include every one, every living person in the United States not just a citizen or voters. Certainly. The Census Bureau is charged with a difficult task and that is counting every one in the United States. The Census Bureau has no Enforcement Powers whatsoever so they wouldnt even have the ability to try to ascertain someones legal status. I might add if they try to do that they would reduce the counts that are seriously flawed. Thank you madam chair. I yield back. Thank you very much madam chair. In your testimony and opinion piece you wrote you connected the Citizenship Question to the fundamental notion the consent of the governed. It excluded because they were not part of the Political Party. Its at the core howeve howevero this discussion again we are addressing the question of whether we can allocate the representation based on the presence of millions of individuals who are not citizens. Do you feel that memorandum calling for an apportionment account of a number of citizens in the core founding tradition of the 14th amendment . Not only is it in line but its compelled by it, the notion of the consent requires we apportioned the representative is based on this but people who are temporarily visiting. Or i think the Supreme Court decision is very welcomed and clear. The reason the clause is there not to tax or excluded but they are not citizens. With the application of the laws to the governed. The notion of the consent of the governed is a particular people decide on the kind of government they are going to have and who their representatives in government are going to be and in order to best secure the unalienable rights that they have. Its not designed to give other people a voice. Why have we spent the last three years concerned about the russian interference if we think anybody from the world over odd to have a say in the choosing and allotment, the fact of the matter is its about the politics, the people they choose to govern ourselves and to apply laws to other people while they are visiting here but they are not the governing body, they are not the political regime. You heard the discussion from the gentleman from the district of columbia. She said specifically that citizens are not enumerated. Can you address that . Counting the whole number of persons, but it says their representatives, and that refers back to the people in the states. The people refers back to the opening language of the constitution we the people of the United States allotted according to the people in the states and at those persons we are going to count. We have never counted every single individual that happens to be within the state at the time of the census. Weve not counted visitors or indians not taxed or diplomats. The principle of reason why they dont count such a boat is they are not part of the people. They are not persons that form a part of the people in the state. You cant read about one word in isolation. Its part of the larger language of article one section two as well as the preamble and its part of the principles that are set out in the declaration of independence back to the notion of the consent of the governed. Finally i would like to express my concern with the actions of this body. Partisan leadership forced the committee to consider this question of having a person identify themselves as citizens on numerous times however weve only had a few hearings on the topic of issues quite hard to count populations and an issue for my district and im sure of several other members of the kennedy. This misdirection has forced us to deal with how we ask one question to nonamericans more so than how we ensure americans in these hard to count populations can participate in the entire census even though the majority constantly states its intentions to count every person. American voters and american tax dollars to send us all to washington, d. C. To provide for and oversee the census, yet partisan leadership has neglected this intention which concerned to persuade myself that are focused on ensuring that constituents get proper representation and protection from the federal government. If we are going to get another stimulus which we ought to do is ask that they are filling out their census. If you want to get everybodys vote, maybe thats an incentive that we could go by. I yield back. The chair now recognizes the representative of when we recognized representative cooper. I would like to honor delicate norton. Your line of questioning has exposed the fact that for those not keeping score at home, virtually every living director of the census supports your view that the president has taken a unilateral and outrageous version of the 14th amendment, which is probably unconstitutional. You would think that a country as old and as distinguished as america would be able to count the citizens and follow the precedent established by every living census director to count not only citizens but others such as undocumented people in each district. There are countless questions surrounding the census and issue that we are facing in my district is this. I am told that outreach specialist, Partnership Specialists will have their contracts terminated in september and the census will continue until october 31. So, i would like to find out from the previous census directors what effect this could have on the accuracy of the count and Partnership Specialists terminated a month early a month before the census ended. I do not know the impact of this decision on the enumerators themselves, but it would seem Partnership Specialists wouldnt have been hired unless they added some value to the process. So, i would like to hear from mr. Groves, mr. Pruitt and mr. Thompson about the effect of this premature and early termination of the census specialists on the accuracy of the count. I think yesterday i talked to the individual responsible for the area i live and she was very concerned that her contract with the illuminated upon the activity of. With great assurance that Community Leaders have the trust the communities in their areas are key to the original response as well as the nonresponse followup stage over several decades would work with any interference in their performance will affect the quality and we should avoid that whenever possible. Is a going too far to say . Im sorry. We have a vast pro bono force out there trying to help us do the census this has never existed before and it is responsible for the fact for those who dont respond it is to those people they are in the thousands like School Teachers and Union Leaders and chambers of commerce leaders. They think their job is everyon everyone. What can communities do to prevent the determination of these partnerships or to supplement or substitute the work of the specialist in the crucial month of october . To make sure that period is extended as my former colleagues have all said really important component of getting a complete account is getting the message out on the local level the consensus is very important to your community and importantly this isnt a message they can collect from washington we started the programs with the 2000 and census and we saw a dramatic decrease of various hard to count populations. So for the month of october it is critical local communities and leaders why the census is important and completely confidential it doesnt share information with anyone. My time is expired. Congressman jordan now congresswoman fox. Thank you madam chair. Doctor, the interpretation of the 14th amendment is subject to judgment leading up to each census it has a detailed rule do you agree the standard for residency is subject to judgmen judgment . I do. We routinely alter that and included those longterm residents but not shortterm and those who are no longer residents but are a broad because of work with military service. And with those parameters. Do you believe its appropriate for residency criteria to change for illegal aliens . I do. Mr. Thompson when you were director you drafted the rules for the 2020 census. Is that correct . Yes it is congresswoman. Its fair to say the states of legal or illegal. Is that correct . Thats correct. Did you support changing the rules for military residency . I did. Let me understand Many Americans who reside overseas including military personnel are enumerated in the United States but not because they were not present april 1st 2020 so using your logic military personnel should be excluded. Correct . No maam. We looked at the previous census in the federal register for comment and based on a lot of input we made the decision we should count the overseas military in the United States. That is absolutely the way it should be in my opinion. But because we recognize these individuals normally is us residence but we are asked to serve a broad it will return when the Short Services over they are serving the country it is deluded by illegal aliens mr. Thompson another question for you is the 2020 census criteria change how Prison Inmates are counted. Is this correct . This is how they are counted in a month in most senses. Some people believe in the pre incarceration some people say you are diluting the representation so you believe that Prison Inmates thats how the essences enumerates their location . After i left Government Service i support their decision where they are incarcerated. You believe the failed representation of inmates why do you support others citizens constitutional representation from illegal aliens . Throughout my experience at the Census Bureau which includes 27 years as a political appointee i operate under the consensus everyone in the United States regardless of status. Now recognize the congresswoman one congressman. Can you hear me . Thank you madam chair for holding this timely hearing i would like to ask a question back in april you signed a public letter the request to delay the process. And you are quoted one of the articles that i read that the truth is the only thing in charge of the census right now not the bureau or the president that congress and the virus will be in charge until it is an. Is it correct to say the coronavirus presents an enormous challenge to the Census Bureau to conduct an accurate and timely count of the American People . It is a huge challenge and unprecedented. I assume you requested the delay to give the bureau time. The largest and most complex census ever conducted in this country. And then you add in the pandemic and people hunker down. I assume you all wrote that letter on the best interest of the country. On the Census Bureau to take a whole different approach the new memorandum will require the bureau to dedicate considerable resources a huge workaround in light of the memorandum is that a correct assumption . Yes. Yes. So you have the resources with the redeployment in a whole program put in as of last week to change their plans and yet they also posted that despite the huge demand of resources last week the Census Bureau says it is working toward this plan to complete the field Data Collection by october 31st 2020. Do you think it is feasible to dedicate all those resources and yet not have the accuracy of the census impacted . Right now it is at risk to be is an adequate with the chart one what that task is charged to do. Would like to take as much of the burden off of them as we can and so forth it turned out when they would not get that extension going into 2021 as we planned around that now suddenly there is a reversal on that decision that chances to have a census Accurate Enough to use it is very much unclear even if we have a census with the debate illegals are undocumented if we not even have a census and thats what im worried about. Madam chair my time is expired i yield back. I have a couple of reports about the transient nature of those who are here unauthorized and illegally. 40 percent of the people here illegally will be here for the next census. Given that the transient status of those former residents make it even more problematic to include noncitizens those are here illegally and temporarily. I agree and it applies to legal temporary immigrants as well on student visa. But they will not be here to participate in our government in any form or fashion. I would like to point out 60 percent of those unauthorized immigrants reside in 20 metro areas violating federal law to establish themselves including some who have committed felonies by the way they could cause harm to those that are not. Depending on the illegal immigrant population those that encourage illegal immigration stand to gain a lot of seats in the house of representatives said votes in the Electoral College to the detriment of other states. Doesnt that create an incentive for certain states and places to declare themselves sanctuary to get benefits for whatever crimes they might commit to increase the number of people in those areas to give them this advantage . Isnt that rational if you are already in contradiction with federal law . Not so much in a longterm but it does in the short term but alabama is likely to lose a seat in congress and electoral vote for president as a result of this kind of immigration should reside like in californi california. Speaking of fractional and to where it might need in the right to selfgovernment. And to make this point we dont allow foreign citizens in the United States to run for office do we . No we dont we dont allow people legally or illegally to make campaign contributions. Presumably we dont allow them to vote . Its illegal although we have evidence. Do we allow foreign citizens to run for office or to vote in elections . Yes or no. Should we allow them to vote in elections if they are here legally or illegally . Thats a great legal answer to agree with the law. Yes or no . Do you agree give me a quick answer yes or no. Absolutely. Why in the world do we think its legal to allow people who are here illegally or legally to be accounted for apportionment. It doesnt make sense. I dont think its consistent with the constitution either. I yield back. I would like to enter these documents into the official record. From the pew research center. I yield back. Representatives. And then to serve the country well thank you. And to be very happy with the decision of roger in the Supreme Court to rule was a citizen of the United States. And then to have millions of americans declared noncitizens. And shows you how powerful the numbers were. And those which by the way with the representation at the time. And with that innuendo. And then to use them conflate the numbers. And then to deny them the vote. They were ignorant they were not really americans. This kind of bigotry has no place carrying on with the senses. To get a feel how many people are at their at a given time residing in the United States of america. So with the purpose of understanding and all of the former directors can answer this as well in a selective process of not enumerating certain individuals. No sir. Mr. Thompson. Why do you think we need to have account of the people residing in the United States . On the fullblooded american citizens and nobody else. They are paying taxes. They pay property taxes if they live someplace and more than and that to have a difficult situation i dont think the other members have paid enough attention the Census Bureau does not know how to do it the president is asking them to do it was at the census. Is at the case that for example throughout American History and in the 19th century. Is an that the case . It is. So that over 200 years of practice in American History and in my view. The chair recognizes. Which expert remains available . I believe he had an appointment at 11 and had to leave. Let me ask you a question about the law if i recall correctly there is a case in which from 2001 the senate clarify there is a split in the ninth circuit versus the fourth and the fifth as to what the courts position would be on apportionment and what were talking about. Expound on that very briefly spent they went to a portion and the court upheld that and not strongly suggested to be compelled by the notion of Representative Government to say it doesnt require that technically. Representative connelly i know you are protected by the speech and debate clause that doesnt mean i cannot respond to that slanderous statement that you make i do not support that decision im a vigorous defender of the dissenting opinion it was a wrong decision africanamericans were treated as citizens and he was wrong i will not let you get away with slander just because you are protected by the speech and debate clause. I thought that was a response of my colleague to ask a question along those lines im glad you responded. It was not appropriate to direct that toward you. A very real question at a bare minimum we all agree there is a split in the jurisprudence whether or not apportionment should be accounted for in the way we are discussing and citizenship matters it must matter if we will be a nation of laws and have citizens running for office with a robust debate and discussion my colleagues on the other side of the aisle were fighting with every in one ounce of effort to try to ask a simple question and the vast majority of americans recognize that is an important question to ask. The question here for mr. Thompson. My understanding the way the census counts we have characteristic was status and a household size. What does this mean for the average listener . It means we make stuff up we have situations we have an address we cannot find the hous house. Or the house nearby. But then we find the house somebody is there but we cannot find them. So now theres five white peoples will just put five white people in this house. Or household size we dont know. We dont know if its one or two or three so we will just guess five or ten based on nextdoor. And then we go into characteristics. It is a reality of what the Census Bureau does to achieve numbers. That is what is going on now we have others and i would ask if you a jump then really quick is it not correct it is used in the court acknowledges for purposes of the application of the Voting Rights act . Thats correct would it not be appropriate for redistricting purposes . The same data for the Voting Rights act . Yes. Absolutely. Its taken every year. And you should use the acs with apportionment. I believe we could to coincide with the senses. In my in fact it doesnt have to make assumptions on data going house to house thats the way the Census Bureau does that . If they dont do anything. And it is a longstanding practice. We dont always get direct responses. So these are wellestablished ethical and statistical process to give a more complete senses than we would otherwise have. We now recognize congressman raskin. Madam chair thank you very much for calling this hearing. It is a super important hearing. With a very simple conclusion that the president s proposal with a radical break from the structure in the meaning of the constitution so basically every methodology supports that we have been doing it right for more than two centuries. There is no reason to overthrow that right now with a whole series of attacks on the election or the mailin ballots in the president threatens not to observe the final results if he doesnt like it with the anticipatory temper tantrum by the president. The couple of things that were floating out there. With voting and citizenship there seems to be a false equation it has been very clear obviously large categories those who are citizens and historically the vast majority couldnt as well as landowners and Property Owners. And conversely people who could vote were not citizens for the vast majority. Even today there are a lot of municipalities that allow people to vote but the way they existed to the 18th and 19h to the 20th century with gender qualifications property and wealth qualifications for votin voting. You are a Christian White male Property Owner and was a confusing concept anyway. And with these rigid of dateline ideas that are propounded right now. Having to do with Land Ownership and then to have immigrants coming in from other places that it turned around. And the admission of kansas and nebraska and other states because the Republican Party which is the great champion and before he became a citizen that was lincolns position other a position of the Republican Party. And with those anti slavery ideas. And to be a citizen of the confederacy. And indeed in corporations. And then in a corporation with stock in america. So i got curious about the whole question that was repeated by the witnesses. What is the situation today . Certainly their children your native americans and adults are not paying taxes are they counted. Yes they are. Thats interesting. Let me ask another question. If we adopt the president s proposal and see why they are pushing for the Citizenship Question as lawless and as a violation of those procedures. Since we dont know who is a citizen or not how do they make that work . In my judgment there is no way. Thats what worries me about this initiative. The administrative records for many years at the Census Bureau now with Georgetown University there is a good number of separating out the documented from the undocumented. You need to draw a clear line between the two categories that definition does not exist in the Census Bureau when article of science magazine. We are all anxious about this initiative not because of the arguments made but it will do with the census itself in 2020. If we dont come up closer to where we are coming then we are in trouble. Not only and rooted in the constitution but a danger. Thank you for your indulgence. Sorry. Thank you madam chair. I want to thank all our witnesses for being here today. Unfortunately i think its a waste of your time. We continue not doing our job of oversight then in this case specifically as it relates to the senses. This is the first time weve had a hearing about it. 120 days and we are just now getting around to it and a little earlier we may not even have a census this go around because of the pandemic and the responsibility of this committee to do proper oversight. It is just unacceptable in my colleagues and willing to show up for work as we have done in the Republican Party perhaps we could continue our oversight and think now we have an emergency even with this emergency hearing still not providing oversight with whats happening with the census is unthinkable to me and highly irresponsible and to get back to the order of what this committee is supposed to be involved with as it relates to right now. It is unreasonable or unconstitutional for us as a nation to have a number of citizens its just unthinkable to me and a radical break to note the number of citizens as well as noncitizens and the third way of thinking but nonetheless i appreciate the testimony you have given. I know this is already been covered but its worth reiterating is the president within his authority to direct a memorandum to the Census Bureau back. I believe he is. And within his authority that includes citizens and legal residents. Thats correct. Reiterate again why this is so important we have account of citizens not just illegals as well. The critical aspect is to know the citizens the importance of knowing the citizens with that distribution as they control the government. And those that set out in the declaration of independence. I see whats so complicated. Its illegal to be involved in the political process but now for all practical purposes we have a Political Party that is determined to give citizens of Foreign Countries the right to vote in our federal elections and be involved in impacting the federal elections which is deeply troubling. And should be seen as election interference with those who are illegally in this country to impact the voting power of the citizens quite frankly i look back to the same thing then as it is now to gain and strengthen political power for the Democratic Party and shrugs off common sense thank you again for your testimony today and i implore my colleagues on the other side. Now i would just like to respond to his attack. I read the president census memo carefully. It is plainly unconstitutional and comply with his memo would violate federal law. Thats what we call this important hearing. Excuse me i did not interrupt you. You do not have to take my word for it. And those serving republican and democratic president s and existing law. Congressman your recognize. And must be exhausting to be a republican when the president of the United States holds the press conference to sell Snake Oil Cure to the coronavirus. And must be extremely exhausting to come in here and defend the president of the United States when he takes unconstitutional actions such as he has done here. Candidly i feel sorry for you. When those that are afraid to speak their mind are the opinions that they hold are the truth that they know in their hearts and minds. From this president at all cost defending the indefensible. It seems the primary argument stated is that was pointed out half a dozen times in this hearing indians were not counted. The other stupidity and then according to the irs paid 9 billion of payroll taxes. And then to pay 12 billion a Social Security benefits more than they received. And according to Economic Policy undocumented immigrants pay 12 billion yet here we are. Here we sit today because of this memorandum of this president to tell us clearly whats most important to this president. Tens of thousands more will die in the coming months because of the utter lack of leadership by this president. The economic collapse of our country is unfolding before our eyes because the president is unwilling to do what it is necessary as the leader of the United States to ensure we take the actions we need to take tens of millions of americans are out of work struggling how to pay rent in the mortgage and medical bills in the millions that follow them what is important to them. But as an american we are better than this. I yield back. Thank you chairwoman Ranking Member. The right to vote is sacred as americans were blessed to live in a country that respects the timehonored tradition of one person one vote. Wars have been fought march is led. And then to disenfranchise american citizens to gain more power. Those that have allowed open immigrants to vote currently in california can register to vote online it is require you check a box that you are us citizen and provide a Social Security number or california drivers license. The l. A. Times reported over 1 million Illegal Immigrants had drivers license in california in 2018. They care about obtaining power at any cost even if they have to attack the foundation of the american citizenship in the right to vote. Now continuing the offensive by attacking the 2020 census they managed to politicize every step in the process and ignoring history and the rule of our citizenship has been included as recently as 2000. Is the inclusion is perfectly legal. Despite this the democrat shenanigans managed to get the question removed because it was too late the Citizenship Question with fairness and common sense. And the most fundamental of which is the right to choose our leaders. And with the apportionment how is that not foreign interference . To send a few thousand people and then they get an extra vote in congress and with the fundamental rights whom i trust my democratic colleagues whats the point of citizenship . Was the point of the illegal immigration system those of the apportionment process dilutes the vote of every single american citizen it creates an incentive to accept more illegal immigration and those that the apportionment process perversely incentivizes states to encourage more illegal immigration in violation of us law and the wellbeing of citizens to gain more congressional representation. Those here illegally should have to say to elect americas leaders. Make no mistake at the expense of the American People again. And those four apportionment in this committee today many Democrat Members have asked the answer is yes or no or yes yes. It is a biased sample they allowed us one witness and they provided three who share their opinion. Its unfair and biased and exactly what we get if we count Illegal Immigrants with apportionment it will misrepresent the votes of the states that abide by the laws. That is somehow reflective of the people of america three voices out of 330 million their opinion counts three out of 330 million. And to have an accurate count to throw a wrench in the process was statutory relief with the poison pill provisions. Democrats are more about power and the integrity of our election or the fundamental right of every american citizen. I yield. Thank you for your testimony and i want to point out the Census Bureau is not asking people about their set one citizenship status thats of the Trump Administration wanted them to do. But were shot down by the Supreme Court of the United States of america. I now recognize representative schultz of florida. That flies in the face of the ridiculous argument that was just made by the gentleman who previously spoke. But in the section of census. Gov labeled apportionment the apportionment of representatives must be carried every ten years it is the 435 memberships with the house of representatives that counsel meet census and then from the 2020 census those will determine the amount of Political Representation each day he has for the next ten years not only to be not qualified and those that would be accounted for apportionment the Trump Administrations own Census Bureau divinities out any reference to categorize the individual that we are counting they would count for apportionment everyone living in the United States counted 31t as a person to be counted for the census specifically for apportionment. So what is going on here is the us Supreme Court scuttled the bigoted plans to intimidate people who are not citizens from answering the census and thus being able to be accounted for and instead to ignore the Citizenship Question by using an executive order for those who are not citizens and apportionment and its transparent so my question is that we have a number of experts here to go through some key facts. This investigation shows with electoral politics. Do you agree the policies from the apportionment count are consistent with the real objective . I do not hear my name could you please review the questions be made you agree the policies proposed preclude undocumented immigrants are consistent from their success . I believe what he is trying to do is a question and process. Could you be more specific. [inaudible] can you explain why the immigrant community that can lead to a less accurate census count . They are afraid the answers will be used against them. Unfortunately produced in the 1941. Sixteen years ago we are still talking about that there is a very long shadow over the senses. That will cast another long shadow. And they have a reason to dodge that not respond to that. And that they attempted to manipulate this behavior is normalized what impact will that have for the democracy to ensure an accurate count. Thats an excellent question. It is incredibly important the census is viewed as a nonpolitical objective enterprise because of the cornerstones of their democracy and that perception as doctor pruitt said will have a long life span making it very difficult to take a census in the future. I yield back. We now recognize representative higgins online. This type of anti american rhetoric is my regular american and patriots dont like politicians and not trust the government what are they trying to hide . And it is a major point that is incredibly clear from sea to shining sea, Voting Rights in america and congressional representation belong to american citizens. Reprs rightful owners the citizens of america why do you want to know how many citizens versus noncitizens are in our country, i will tell you why. Estimates range from 12 million to 25 million illegal aliens. 700,000 constituents per Congressional District and 17 to 35 Congressional Districts that can be swayed by illegal aliens within our country the republican majority was 47. The reality is illegal aliens accounted for reapportionment count the ballots of one man one vote with american citizens towards and my colleagues across the aisle dont want america to know that but i do because we prefer to speak the truth and i the gentleman prior to calling us minions and other things america is watching and they know it. Mr. Eastman, you are a constitutional scholar, are you not . My question was are you a constitutional scholar . Madam chair i would like this time observed a argued a constitutional scholar, sir . [inaudible] back on track welcome to 21st technology that doesnt work for the Remote Committee hearings. I urge my colleagues to return to regular order. Can it not be challenged in court . Your audio is not functioning you are familiar with the policy regarding the census we are discussing today. Can this policy be challenged or ten if not, is that most the process . When it gets to the Supreme Court that trump policy will be upheld. In the interest of time if the policy is overturned in the judicial procedure would it be a judicial challenge properly if the policy is overturned by the Supreme Court, then thats it, isnt it . I believe that its after the policy already. Why are Supreme Court rulings that have established by the majority rule that an agencys action is final when they complete their decisionmaking process specifically as it regards to the census that the president is not required to report directly to congress but rather uses the data from the census in making a statement are you familiar with that is written by Justice Oconnor . That is the case ive been referring. It certainly is. Madam chair, thank you for your indulgence. We had some technical difficulties and i just want to codify whats before us today is the balance of power under the represented republic of american citizens that we are supposed to serve. And if any of my colleagues are fellow americans across the country have a problem, then by all means follow the process by which he would challenge that as the article in the judicial process. Madam chair, i yield. I now recognize the congressmen. Thanks very much, madam chair. Can you hear me . Yes we can. Fundamentally, you cant run a country if you dont know how many people are in your country and that is the purpose of the census plain and simple. It isnt a Democratic Power grab. Its a patriotiit is a patriotit they engage in every ten years to know who is in our country, how many people, so we know how to provide services and resources into function as a country, that is what this is about comes to function so we know where to build the roads and hospitals and schools. I want to know how many people live in my district, whatever district im representing, i need to know how many people are living in the district so i know how many resources should come to find that hold clinics, the capacity of the hospitals that we need and our other healthcare providers. That is the purpose of this and if we dont take the census seriously, we wont be able to function in an effective way so thats what this is about. I dont want to belabor what the president has done because it is very clear based on the testimony and easy reading of the constitution of the president has proposed most recently is not only unconstitutional, but that is completely unworkable. I would like the former directors if they could to give their perspective on this very delicate line that we are walking right now. On the one hand, we know that the census needs to be completed within a certain [cheering] of time so the data works and the further we get away from april 1, the more potentially compromised that can be. On the other hand, we dont want to rush the census in a way that would undermine its accuracy, and i fear that the president is seeking to do that now from what i understand to try to sort of telescope the process here. So, could you speak, and any of you are invited to weigh in. Tell me whats your greatest concerns are right now about the ability to conduct the census to gather the data and how do we navigate this window that we have and i will turn back to the directors. I can start. The career people who are experts requested a fourmonth extension of the deadlines in their title. They know what they are doing and what its going to take to get census done. Not extending the deadline is going to put pressure on the Census Bureau. It is and clear what they can produce if they dont get the extension. So it could be a big problem. I would add to that i do think right now we ought to be independent appointing a group of statisticians and otherwise inform the academy and look at metrics for the purpose of spending over a trillion dollars, and its inadequate as a base number for ten years we are at risk of getting to the country a set of non herseth will make what you said at the very beginning you want to know how many, coming to school how many in the hospitals, what is the traffic load, what about emergency preparation, all of that can on numbers, and i am worried that we may not have those numbers at a level we are able to get them to the president. Thanks very much i appreciate the opportunity, and i think thk what we are hearing is the politics need to be kept away from this space. The president is trying to politicize and we need to keep it in a safe zone for the benefit of the country. Can i make a comment, please. Who is wanting to make a comment . The manner in which the president is positioning its this approach thats going to make it difficult to do this j job. I now recognize representative robin kelly. Thank you, madam chair. A couple of points i wanted to make first i never remember the minority having more than one witness. We want to have the count because that would help us without sanctuary cities while chicago is a sanctuary city in new york and we already know they won the congressional seats so counting the undocumented that you may represent but i wanted to ask if they do not respond to the census either because they are afraid of being identified or are motivated because of this memo, what effect do you predict this will have on the distribution of federal funds and how will that affect some communities more than others . Im sorry, ive been waiting so long. A quick response. Look, right now with respect to those that send in a form statebystate goes up as high as 72 and then as down as low as 52, that is a 20 difference between the two states. The states are counted that 80 and that isnt a functional census. Hugely disproportionate the way the federal deficit spend because it is a fixed number proportionate to size so if somebody is is under it and somebody is 80 of the one that is a hundred is actually going to get more because it is going to be spent somewhere. I think about the counties i represented and even if someone is undocumented, they still help, they dont just leave people to die or to be homeless or that kind of thing. They still feel that responsibility. Thank you for having this hearing. Always enjoyable and there is some confusion. The first question is for doctor eastman. The president s minogue as i understand doesnt include distribution of federal. Its only for the purpose of apportionment. Am i wrong . You are correct. The Constitutional Authority is different for each of the two. This idea that if we dont count people if that will result in less federal agency, that isnt accurate, right . Thats not accurate. The question is what are the numbers we use for the apportionment purposes. I want to ask about other people that could be in wisconsin for the aphrodit everf reasons, people that are born there or died and lived there their whole life. There could be people there that are from a consulate in chicago were driving around seeing whats going on. You could have somebody coming over from iowa that expects to return home growth of these people supposed to if we go through a diplomat they are counted. If you want t they want to takee technical reading thats been offered a wit what the supreme t said what we are aiming for here is who is being represented and in charge i will give you a specific example. Expecting to reach her home in iowa with no intention of staying in was called an 80 or mother is at home hospice should she be counted as a resident . I dont believe she should be and i dont believe the Census Bureau does. How under any circumstance, what contortions would you reach to say that a person that was here illegally intends to stay permanently . I would think if i were caught illegally for whatever reason, i would expect to return home, isnt it kind of insulting to say to somebody but we will make the assumption that they are here permanently . I think so. You can read this into the phrase the other argument has been anybody that is residing in the state, they added the word reciting the wife of the also add worth more consistent with the theory that its more to the question of whos being represented. We consider a permanent residence in another place. I think normally if you have a College Student is in wisconsin for nine months and returns to iowa if someone is overstating the visa but plans on returning home what type of logic could do have to say that we expect that person to stay in wisconsin permanently . Could you imagine the theory that we are going to assume somebody comes here to become a permanent resident . There is one theory called virtual representation even though they are not part of the citizenry of the state or community, they are nevertheless there and so therefore the people treat them as if they are being represented even though they have no say. I dont understand it either. Its fundamentally incompatible in the cornerstone of the system of Representative Government. I would like to bring the focus back to what the census is establishing the amount of people driving over my roads go to the population to the formula when it comes to the federal government we need x. Amount of dollars. I need to know how many children are going to our schools so that we can anticipate the amount of brick and mortar and taxation for educating the children and the community. This Current Administration uses to be a democrat or republican issue. The census has nothing to do with their political affiliation. It has everything to do with the enumeration of the people who live in this country so we can appropriately. I know in my district there is an amazing diversity of people strong representation from the middle east and bangladesh when you knock on the door of a home and say are you legal or not legal, the trust because of this administrations just absolute aggressive immigration demoralizing the value of people in the country whether you want to admit it or not. Is mr. Thompson still here . Is it true that they have been under counted in the census and can you explain why this is problematic . That is an excellent questi question. The Census Bureau has always been measured at a differential undercut and that is theyve been measuring slight overtones for the populations of african americans, hispanics theyve been measuring undercounts and they call it the differential undercounts. Including the allocation of 1. 5 chilean dollars in federal every year if there is an undercounts within that community doesnt get its fair share. When a community doesnt get the proper allocation of funds do you agree presiden president tre executive order is likely to make the problem worse by discouraging Illegal Immigrants from completing the census . I included in my testimony the concerns of the memorandum that would include immigrants but the data would be safe. The census isnt a democrat or republican issue. Its an issue about how we will find the country. Ive been on appropriations and i see often if you want to know what your values are, follow the money. And if we systematically eliminate and discourage participation, then our values will be clear that if you are a minority, if youre an immigrant, you have no value. Thank you very much. I yield back. Thank you to the gentle lady for statement. Congresswoman miller is now recognized. Thank you to all of you here today. As we will discuss further in the next panel with the director dillingham, the apportionment is drastically different than taking the census. It is essential they count every person living in the United States as the data is used to appropriate federal resources to the communities in need. Another is to fulfill the constitutional duty of apportionment. The apportionment is the essential process Congress Takes to make sure that the members of congress are distributed fairly and proportionately across the United States allowing some states with a high number of undocumented immigrants to subvert the will of american citizens by denying others they do their fair representation cannot be allowed. While many across the aisle actively champion illegal immigration and denied the governments duty to protect their sovereign border, to turn around and try to distort the action and to protect the democracy into a constitutional crisis is an absolute farce. The hearing is a continuation of the lack of leadership that america is so tired of seeing out of washington. To reiterate the importance of making sure that americas voices are heard here in congress and at the ballot box. How would residence in the United States undermined the representation of legal american citizens. The sovereignty of the people in the states that do not have large numbers of Illegal Immigrants. And benefiting those that violated the law. How are the smaller states which already have fewer members of congress negatively impacted by the larger states who are bolstering their census counts of undocumented immigrants . We have a number of dates that we will lose or not gain a seat in congress it would shift away from the rural state it does so in two ways it gives an additional seat in congress and it takes each voter in the district and fix the vote with twice as much historically why has it been the standard to reduce total population for the apportionment instead of the number of citizens, and does this actually subvert the democratic will of American Voters . Historically weakest of the total population because there wasnt a differential it is for the Political Representation. But we now have a disparity between the citizen and noncitizen areas of the country. And that is skewing the Political Authority of the people that are supposed to be choosing the representatives to govern. Thank you. I am very happy President Trumps and the administration revealed its true colors. For a long time if we remember when they were trying to add the Citizenship Question to the census it was always about enforcing the Voting Rights act and they repeated and repeated it that even your republican chair didnt believe that was the case. For the undocumented immigrants not all people should be counted and apportionment. It revealed their true colors this administration and trump always attempted to use the census as a political weapon to marginalize communities throughout the country and i believe that this is only the next step because the true direction and some individuals on the right of the political spectrum is to undermine the 14th amendment itself, the idea that any person all are subject to the jurisdiction of the United States. That is where ultimately, they want to go. Im talking about the administration and the people on the right who dont see people who are born here as valid citizens of the country. The. I believe that it would be found unconstitutional in some of the rulings by the Supreme Court indicate that this court is not a republican or democratic court. It is the Supreme Court of the United States of america. And i look forward for this case to go forward. But i believe that it is finally at the constitution and the federal statute as enacted by congress. Title 13 states after the census is complete, the secretary of commerce shall send the president a tabulation of the total populations by state which then the president must transmit to the congress a statement showing the whole number of persons, it doesnt say anything else, person in each state. Id like to go down the line and ask each of you a question. In your experience to even understand federal law to allow secretary to exclude undocumented immigrants from the census count he or he is required to send to the president. The answer is no. Mr. Pruitt. No. Those are some simple questions when it comes to this issue that its never been allowed and no ones ever requested it, the this administration is trying once again to use the census for political ends and to marginalize the community and undermine our democracy. We have a choice to make. The country is getting more diverse. No matter if we throw up roadblocks, no matter what we do the country is changing, but its not about how we shouldnt allow those changes to determine our character. How we handle those changes determine the values of these. Im proud to be an american and a lot of the people here, undocumented or otherwise, are also proud to be in the country and we will fight for our place in this country every step of the way until the day that we are no longer on this earth and with that i will yield back. Thank you mr. Gomez. The chair now recognizes congressman keller. Thank you madam chair and bring them in your. Last week the president issued a memorandum directing the department of commerce to provide him with an apportionment account that only includes those in the country legally since we all know that the census count and redistricting are different things, i am concerned that the title of the hearing completes all of these into one group. Creating the assumption that these terms are all the same thing makes the accusation that the actions were unconstitutional, which they are not. Doctor eastman, can you explain how its different from a census count and redistricting . Sure. The census count that is addressed things like federal spending and how much space we need on the highway, those are exercises person and to the power under the Commerce Clause and spending clause and it doesnt matter on what basis you are here but its supposed to be tied to people who are choosing representatives and we can have an apportionment account of the person in the state for that purpose that is different from the total population counts that would include visitors and people on temporary visas and all those other things and we could have two different accounts. The memo is directed to the apportionment account. What number are we going to use for distributing our political power in the come pre based on the population of citizens of the people. This committee has spent endless hours holding hearings, conducting investigations and holding Administration Officials in contempt of congress due to an issue with the Citizenship Question on the census. Eventually it was abandoned, a Citizenship Question shouldnt be controversial and neither should using an apportionment account of only those that reside in our country legally. If someone is here illegally, they shouldnt be represented in the United States congress. Doctor eastman, why did the court ruled that a Citizenship Question asked on the questionnaire is in fact constitutional . Because we have been asked that question on almost every census in our history and the only reason its blocked from the current census is because the Supreme Court found that the department had improperly gone through the requirements of the administrative procedures act they went out of its way to say asking about citizenship is perfectly constitutional. Just one thing. I know theres been a lot of discussion on why we need to make sure the representation is correct. But i know that some of the people on the left want to do away with Electoral College. By counting people who are not u. S. Citizens here, is that a way to make the Electoral College less relevant by shifting representation of a frown american citizens . It does. It has the same effect of diluting the votes of citizens of the apportionment of the house of representatives has because the Electoral College votes are based on the total number each one has in the house of representatives plus the two senators. If i couldnt get an amendmencould get an amendmenttr vote and i wanted to do it with the college vote i would want to count people for the representation purposes who are in the country . It certainly would alter the impact of the outcome of elections and that undermines the very notion of the consent of the governed. The point i want to make by the way the trumpet administration wants to make sure that we know the difference between when we are talking apportionment and census and redistricting. We want to take care of everybody here in the country but we also want to make sure that the government is selected by american citizens and not people that are not citizens of this country is perfect . Thats correct. If you look at the numbers, texas is going to lose as a result of this as well as california. Its hard to say if that is a partisan outcome. Its a Good Governance outcome. It means that because we are americans we should have a government that is decided by american citizens and not people that are foreign nationals in the country illegally. Thank you madam chair and i wont go back. I thank the gentleman in all of the panelists for their testimony and remind them that there will be additional questions that may come to them and i would be grateful for their swift response. We will now go to the second panel but first, i would like to respond to the request he mentioned we needed a hearing on the hard to count community and stated that we only had not enough hearings on the same is. Id like to place in the record since ive been chair, thereve been fights hearings on the census including one on the hard to count communities in the 2020 census which was january 9, 2020. We were also privileged to have the director here on february 12 and appreciate him coming back very much. We also had one on beyond the Citizenship Question repairing the damage and the camp for we the people in 2020. And we also had one on getting the importance of the census for both states and local communities and march 14 we had the commerce secretary. So i would like to place in the record these hearings be mentioned and if you would like to have another hearing on the hard to count communities, we would be glad to accommodate having another and i would also like to place in the record the listing of 12 for Committee Hearings we have had on different subjects. But obviously five with both the full committee and the subcommittee has been a priority as it should be for this country. I would like to place this in the record. Thank you. The first panel is dismissed with our great thanks. Thank you for your time and service and for coming back to testify from across the country. We are very grateful. Thank you. We are also grateful that we were joined by mr. Stephen dillingham, the current director of the Census Bureau. Thank you very much for your time, service and agreeing to be here. We are very appreciative. If the assist with these guys and raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you god . With the record show that the witness answered in the affirmative. We thank you and without objection your written statement will be made part of the record and with the, you are recognized for your testimony. Again, thank you for your service. And i just want to add the coronavirus has changed everything. Its really changed how weve been able to conduct the census and i appreciate your service during this very difficult time. Madame chairwoman and Ranking Member i dont know if you notice that knowthis but i havey designed mask and ive provided one to you and the Ranking Member so i hope they will find it useful at least for getting the message out. Chairwoman maloney and Ranking Member im honored to be with you today. Id like to congratulate the Ranking Member on his recent appointment. I appreciate the support of congress and the committees commitment to a successful 2020 census. The nonpartisan Census Bureau is the nations leading federal Statistical Agency. Its career and mom career staff Work Together to advance its Mission Always in accordance with governing laws and court rulings. The bureau does not set policy nor does it control the use of its data products. The Census Bureau adheres to the highest standards of scientific integrity and transparency into the principles and practices of federal statistical agencies. Meeting the challenges posed by the unprecedented brutal pandemic remains a top priority. The Census Bureaus dedicated workforce has worked hard and professionally to keep the 2020 census on track. This morning i am pleased to highlight some recent developments. On july 21, the president issued a president ial memorandum that has been the topic of the first panel. In response to the memorandum, secretary ross called upon the Census Bureau to examine the projected income and efforts to develop methodologies for producing a special tabulation for apportionment. A group of expert career staff will examine possible methodologies. Operations are not affected by the memorandum. We remain committed to counting every person in the right place and only once. To help the Census Bureau meet the challenges posed by the pandemic, the White House Office of management and budget to get a request to supplement our hiring Pay Incentives outreach and replenish our Contingency Fund in to provide the necessary flexibility. Despite the pandemic, the 2020 census soft response has been a tremendous success. We are now at almost 63 with more than 92 million households counted. About 80 have chosen to respond using the internet. Our response system hasnt had a single minute of downtime since we first invited people to respond online beginning in march. We successfully set up or send up, and we say up to five mailings because if you do answer in soap response, you are not receiving hopefully after the period of time not receiving additional mailing, but we sent up to five mailings and an additional two areas with post office boxes. The sixth has begun and should reach 34 million on the responding households. In september we will be sending a seventh including questionnaires to the lowest responding tracks and hard to count areas. Our update which is the altercation to hand deliver packets to the Housing Units while its generally complete certainly 99 and the last i looked i think it was about 99. 9 . Its basically complete except for some very small communities. College students continues to progress. We have a special obligation to ensure a complete and accurate count of college. College students must be counted where they live or stay most of the time as a april 1. Congress is considering legislation which was passed by the house to alleviate confusion among the college administrators. The largest component of the Field Operation nonresponse followup is underway and expanding rapidly. Weve become a soft launch in selected areas where we can do so safely and effectively. The first six areas began work on july 16 and 6 more on jul july 23. Tomorrow, 35 others will begin work and 40 more will start on august 6. They will be announced today. The remainder will begin the work on august 11 and will be covering the entire nation. Today we are announcing as a part of the followup operation we will contact some households by phone. Health and safety of Census Bureau staff and the public remains our priority. The provision of personal protective equipment, training and adherence to social distancing reflect our commitment to the health and safety of the public and our employees. We require all census and he is interacting with the public to wear a face mask regardless of location. We monitor of conditions nationally and at the state and local levels. The hiring of the census takers and staff continues and we now have 3 million applicants available as temporary census workers. We continue receiving about 1500 new applicants each day. Our 248 areas and its officers are completing the hiring process for about a half a million. More than 900,000 job offers have been accepted. Our partnerships are an precedented exceeding the most Ambitious Goals with almost 400,000 partners we are expanding the outreach to the heart to count populations. Despite having to delay the mobile questionnaire assistance efforts to do the pandemic, Partnership Staff have identified assistant sites where people leave to go home such as grocery stores, pharmacies and other places in compliance with local, state and federal safety guidelines. Weve seen great examples in new york city and i know that youve participated in kentucky as well and probably end all member districts. The Census Communications Campaign Continues to expand its reach. We increased the Communications Contractor budget from 500 million to 700 million increased the media in progress now. We will run many types of advertising and low Response Rate areas including those with hard to count audiences. As the voices in your communities thank you for sharing the message that participating in the 2020 census is easy, safe and important. We appreciate your strong support for the census and our operations. Our committed employees and volunteers remain on mission and our accomplishing tremendous results. Our offices have led other federal agencies and reopening in a rapid phasedin and safe manner. I couldnt be more proud of the challenges and dedicated career and temporary workforce soon to become the nations largest. We are grateful almost every house and Senate Office is active as a 2020 census congressional partner. We look forward to the continued work and thank you each for your support. Together we are reminding everyone that the 2020 census belongs to the nation at large and will help shape a Better Future for all who live here. Thank you so much and i look forward to your questions. Thank you. And the chair now recognizes herself for question, and i appreciate your testimony that the census belongs to the people, and its part of our future. I do want to report that in new york, the son is has been nonpartisan, professional. They have responded to every request from the mayor to attend various meetings from the community. Theyve been at the community boards, the block associations, they work the weekends handing out information in the parks and have responded to every request my office has made for them to join us in getting the word out to the public in a nonpartisan professional way and i want to thank you for that. I want to thank you that i have some particulars in the distribution areas of new york city and appreciate you and your colleagues across the country. Its very important that i must tell you im very, very concerned about the president s been a, and ive read the president s been though very carefully, and i believe that its blatantly unconstitutional and that complying with this memo would violate federal law and i strongly urge you not to violate federal law. But you dont have to take my word for it. We had quite a lengthy hearing today, and all four of your professional nonpartisan predecessors testified on the Previous Panel that they believe the president s memo appears to violate the constitution and its existing law. I would like to ask to do agree with your predecessors that the memo appears to violate the constitution and existing federal law . Madam chairwoman, i was able to catch parts of that hearing. Perhaps the latter part and i was amaze amazed that at what ay discussion and debate with regards to policy and history as well as law. They are in a different position. I respect them greatly and we have many things in common certainly the completeness and accuracy of the 2020 census. We have other things in common and that is the respect for the bureau as well as the principles that govern it, the relevance, the independence etc. So we have much in common. But i am not in a position where i can express my opinions with regards to the policy and even wise with the history and certainly not the legal analysis which is a subject of litigati litigation. So as i did last year, i cannot answer or give my personal views because my job as a Census Bureau director will be to execute the census and in the controlling law we will have to wait and see how that debate comes out. But that is our focus. The mission right now is a complete and accurate count that will include everyone living in this country. In your job as executing the 2020 census, did you or anyone else in your knowledge from the Census Bureau contributed to the president s july 21 memo or provide input before it was released flex madam chairwoman, i certainly did not and im not aware of others in the Census Bureau that did. I understand there are five political appointees. Did any of them participate in this memo . I think including myself we have six now and that is out of more than 6,020 is. But to my knowledge, they did not and i wouldnt have reason to think so. We did have, and im sure you pointed out we have two new one. So, i cant speak for actions that occur prior to joining the Census Bureau. Lets move onto the nuts and bolts of the bureau. It appears that the Congress Gave the president is asking for information that would allow him to exclude undocumented immigrants from the apportionment space. As we all know the Census Bureau will not be asking people about their citizenship status on the 2020 census. The Trump Administration tried that and the Supreme Court struck it down. So my question is, director dillingham, how well boston this bureau and the department of commerce be determining the number of undocumented immigrants in each state . Madam chair, i can tell you that as you have heard the president ial memorandum has some specifics in it and prior to that, we did have an executive order last year that also directed us to look at our administrative data. The Census Bureau has a long history of collecting administrative data is very valuable in many different ways. So, this particular president ial memorandum resulted in a secretary of commerce giving us the directive and guidance to proceed with the requirements of the president ial memorandum and it calls upon us to look at our administrative data and any data that we have in trying to determine the number, which is a statistic on undocumented persons in the country. And for the use of applying it to the apportionment account. So we have experts at the Census Bureau that are now beginning the process of looking at methodologies, and weve collected data from many agencies, the federal agencies. Many of the memorandum were already in existence but from additional federal agencies to see what the we can gain from tt administrative data and with the methodology might be in developing a count of undocumented persons and that process is just beginning. The memorandum just came out last week. Doctor dillingham, your testimony says the bureau, and i quote, has begun to examine and report the methodologies. To let the president to exclude undocumented immigrants. So, my question is what steps has the bureau taken and will you share any reports with the Oversight Committee that has jurisdiction for the census and its operations . As you are aware we are a very Transparent Organization and maybe the precision of the statement was a little bit misleading at this time. And how to identify and how the data can be matched. Just recently there is some data that has not been finalized. But we have received most of the data from the other federal agencies and we are receiving pursuant from the state agencie agencies. It is under way. There have been no reports or no analysis that i have seen and to look at the data and that methodology to find options of how that would be done. If the Census Bureau not Commerce Department will rely on an external data to look at the undocumented immigrants clearly they will be violating the constitution and that requires actual immigration i am concerned about that you testified in february before this committee we must Work Together to foster public trust and i agree. Madam chair said that is 230 years of precedent part of that public trust and we owe it to future generations to pass objective nonpartisan and a fair census i hope we can Work Together to reassure the public the government will follow the constitution to make you are exactly right everyone regardless of how they feel with the Development Everyone is committed and the president ial memorandum says we will count everyone. We will develop a number of the total count we want that is accurate and as complete as possible. The issue as you describe if there will be for apportionment. Thank you for being here today thank you for being here i think youre right three hours ago i apologize you are not on the first panel. It is unprecedented and somewhat disrespectful the head of such an important Government Agency would be put on the second panel but nevertheless had a great attitude we appreciate you being here with forward to some good questions. Let me begin by saying the online response has been remarkable now they are practicing social distancing and using ppe. The census will now turn in a accurate count it is the right thing to do we cannot allow individuals unlawfully president on present to dilute the vote the citizens and lawful immigrants who waited their turn to come to this country to engage in our democracy most americans share that opinion. With respect to the census it is more complex than a simple headcount. Looking at a tourist visa if they overstay their visa and they dont leave are they considered a resident . We have a historically developed set of criteria for the residency and as you describe this simple tourist who is not usually residing with a are found, we would not want to count any response from those individuals. That should be explained on the form that is the keywording. So for purposes of apportionment if the person who stayed longer than 60 days over i am under the impression that is the Legal Definition of a United States resident , this person who overstayed their vis visa, they are not lawfully present and its fair to say they wouldnt deserve to have representation in congress. Correct . We apply the criteria of usual residency. But that is the criteria we use to deliver a complete and accurate count. Back to the earlier questio question, what database does the memorandum use to determine who is included in the apportionment part . That does not specify that in the executive order last year as specified a number of agencies. I have the listing here but i believe it 16 or 17 agreements in place. Some are already in place before that happened but a wide variety of federal agencies and in addition the executive order asks us to begin collecting state data where possible there are many uses. Some of the data use includes matching to make sure you have the right individuals so you dont duplicate. We have 16 or 17 agreements in place where the data has come to the Census Bureau. And then we have state data available. Will be looking at that data carefully. Its not new and some nations do census based on administrative data and one of the things under the executive order was pressed to think about the next census some people actually disagree on this question that are interested on the utility as the chairwoman pointed out the accuracy of the administrative data because it could have many benefits in the future. You are confident we can get an accurate count of legal citizens for the purpose of apportionment . I am confident we will analyze the data that we have to look at the methodologies for that purpose. I am confident you can get the accurate count and the majority of americans ask on expect that what america sees now from my colleagues on the other side of the aisle that continues to spend the deficit spending they see mayors and certain cities of the United States subjected to vandalism and violence and they expect to be represented fairly and accurately in the United States house of representatives. Nobody questions the importance of the census one of the things my colleagues on the other side of the aisle tried to imply falsely that citizens would not be counted the census will count everyone. Correct . That is correct. The president s memorandum states and what the Census Bureau will implement is the fact that lawabiding citizens, legal citizens of the United States should not be at a disadvantage with respect to congressional apportionment. The memoranda of is constitutional and the right thing to do. If anyone out here are questions how this will impact funding, it will not to. We are counting everyone. The memorandum is clearly focused on congressional apportionment. We are talking about as many as 24 seats in the u. S. House. It is a significant number of representatives in the United States house of representatives. I appreciate what you are doing. In my district we feel this is the right thing to do. The majority of americans feel its the right thing to do and we look forward to hearing for the reports on the implementation. Youre doing a great job getting people counted. We look forward to the data used to determine the correct apportionment as we go forward. Madam chair, i yield back. The terminologies here varies but again the president ial memorandum is focused on the undocumented differentiating on citizenship. And with the importance of counting and with the delivery of services. Thank you for joining us today. I would return the compliment you have been outspoken the unabashed is champion and thank you for your leadership we had several discussions one was in new york city before the covid crisis took over. A few simple questions is the word citizen in the constitutio constitution . Thank you and all you are doing for the 2020 census i understand you also wear a hat. So as i explained to the chairwoman earlier it was a very dynamic display of democracy. With history and policy and legal analysis. Understand several lawsuits have been filed so i have to not give any legal analysis or opinion myself because my job is to administer the 2020 census. My own little insight is that when they wanted to use the word citizen article three section two to establish diversity and federal courts. They could see was citizen from another state but here the founder said the actual renumeration of free persons. With the president s interpretation what is a radical departure from everything we have done for more than two centuries. It has nothing to do with the operation we are counting everyone. But for more than two centuries it has counted all persons. The administrations attempt to impose the Citizenship Question that he helped to construct himself. And then to remain agnostic. I have an obligation thats a prudent thing to do. Has the text of the constitution changed in the last two years . Not that im aware of. How long have you been with the senses . Just over a year and a half. Noncitizens have always been counted. It is my understanding the president ial memorandum is requesting for a change in the tabulation. Talking about covid19, are we taking care if i were people sufficiently are you training your census count takers and all precautions . We are trying to. I think we are we are being vigilant and continuing to do assessments certainly with the data from the cdc the local government data. We actually have a Fusion Center we purchased protective equipment we have plans for obtaining more were everyone wears their mask yes we are doing everything we went to make sure those practices not only in the training but to monitor. We are doing an excellent job. The reason i ask is i heard from the field enumerator in training he was planning to quit because of covid19 and i told my staff that despite despite your express commitment they are not getting any real training how to minimize covid exposure in their work they are given the pure l that not how to conduct themselves. It would be great if you could get back to us with what your plan is to fully educate to make sure this is something we are on top of. They could be super spreaders of not following the right precaution. A lot of the training is virtual and when we have half a million employees but doing what we can and will continue to enhance. Do you have rules for the road . And i have the training curriculum with me. Just to get this out there. And also that the public knows that. Absolutely. As i mentioned in the Opening Statement we are in the early stages of launching renumeration now. On august 11 we will be enumerating nationally. It is a very dynamic environment so we are learning as we go to make sure everyone is protected. You can become a model. Congressman. Can you hear me . Yes you are recognized. You heard of fear maunder on peer mongering and the response that will fall behind those essentials. Could you elaborate with the fear being spread slightly ahead at that point of time . As we pointed out that Internet Option we implemented this year with the technologies were in place. And to some extent a little surprised how people prefer the Internet Option. And those that are coming in through the internet mr. Have the telephone option that is picking up a little but just to ask questions to do the Internet Option. Of course they can do the traditional paper options so those with self responses expanding the mailings and outreach activities to make a difference. Can you hear me . Yes. You can proceed me one you can proceed. They integrity of the back of system to handle the online response like what we have been seeing today. It has been tremendously successful. You need to mute one of your devices. And you will have tremendous success. They do not want to reach hard to count does anybody in the Trump Administration ever suggest to count everyone . The latter part of that question is absolutely accurate. All through the Census Bureau was season professionals to make sure we have everyone. Did release you . Now we will proceed and we will come back when he comes back. Thank you chairman. When we last testified on february 12th i asked you about the administrations failures with those individuals that are identified. And then to be pretty overwhelmed with the information bezanson part of the committee on appropriations to ensure with commerce and justice and science the Census Bureau with that 2020 questionnaire. And with race categories to identify. And. And with regard to congres congress, and indicated we are certainly very interested in looking at that topic and we are very much beginning the process. I hear you. You just ignored it. And also with the categories. I will support that one of the improvements that was done and i understand they wanted more than a and b will look into it. And then also put in their Sexual Orientation and gender identity. Will you commit on record to examine that question of Sexual Orientation . That is a topic that has been examined and continues to be. We have questions and some of our surveys that in fact get to the heart of those questions. There is a need that those of that type that we would certainly study that. Calling leaders to tell them with redistricting data. [inaudible] we have passed the point with current legislative requirement. Do you agree with the assessmen assessment . Can you repeat the latter part of your question . If we are past the point do you agree with mr. Olson . To do continuous assessments. We have many more assessments ahead of us. And those on the ground with the direct contact with the people in the residence i thank you should listen to them. I always listen to them. And they are a very important. To allow the Trump Administration we just need to make sure is not just reapportionment but the health care services. Does theo count every one . It certainly does. For the record we are accounting everyone. Everyone who lives in this country in the usual president s, that is correct. That is the proper approach for the Census Bureau and i dont think we should make it about anything else but counting people who are in the country. Now let me ask you this. Weve got the issue of undocumented People Living here and i raised this point earlier in the first panel. A substantial number of those are transitory individuals who are 18 to 20 of whom will not be here for the next census so one of the issues i wanted to ask about is how does it account for people who live in that transitory situation where they are only here for a few years and then they were gone, do you deal with that at all . If someone is living here for a few years in all likelihood they will be counted. It does sound mean they have legal status. One of the reasons is for if she was similar to that. What is the status of some of the people that are usually residing in the country and is it in illegal status . Let me be clear when theres someone here whos only going to be here for say another year or two they will be counted in the census do you include shortterm visitors, people here on student visa getting a masters or maybe four years for an undergraduate degree are those people counted . Usually a year makes a big difference so if they are usually residing here in april 1 they are residing here. I dont think anybody was reasonably argue it raises a serious issue for people who wont even be here maybe for the next election but accounted for apportionment and it would have a profound impact on the representation for a number of states that i raised this point as well in the Previous Panel about states that declare themselves sanctuaries. They are 20 natural areas, 60 of the unauthorized immigrants live in the 60 cities, 20 metro areas that have declared themselves sanctuaries which creates i think an incredible incentive for people to come there because they are going to be protected from Law Enforcement and even those that committed felonies. This doesnt make sense, but i do appreciate the fact for the record you are counting everybody. I just think i feel like, and i think a lot of my colleagues agree we shouldnt be counting people here temporarily. I think the gentleman and the old. The gentleman yields back into the chair recognizes Debbie Wasserman schultz. Thank you, madam chair. He said, and i quote, whether illegal aliens are included depending on the resolution of that, the data you appear before the Committee Just days later and when asked directly if you could confirm the Data Collected under the 2019 executive order would be used in account and you responded with me get back to you on that. Two exclude. I was only formally a whereupon issued in the president ial memorandum it was a press story a couple of years earlier. Reclaiming my time, when did you first become aware anyone else in the administration was planning to exclude undocumented immigrants . I heard there was a story in the press and local peace. Perhaps the capitol hill newspaper or if i recall someone reported a story that such a directive may be coming down and as i recall it seemed like it was late on a friday night was waiting to learn more and then a few days later the directive was issued. You learned about the president s executive order to exclude undocumented immigrants in a newspaper article . The formal decision when this was posted on the web. So you had no discussion prior to the notification or seeing a newspaper article you had no discussions prior to seeing the newspaper story we didnt hear anything about this before the deal is clearly unconstitutional and has a federal officer im sure it took an oath to uphold and defend the constitution. Do you not have the obligation to know how it would be used to . How do you reconcile the memorandum of your Office Statistics indicate that we have no control over who it chooses. Its used according to the constitution. Im aware of that proportion, yes. The data that they were collecting. How do you reconcile the memorandum or are you just a data receptacle . Like any agency, we produce the most comprehensive complete and accurate data possible and we have received this request in the president ial memorandum this order isnt compliant. Thank you and i will you affect the balance of my time. To followup on som follow up oe questions the gentleman from alabama has. If im in the military and im from wisconsin and stationed a variety of places that are in this country but stationed in germany and korea i may pay taxes in wisconsin even though im not there, where should they be for the purpose of the census or should they not be calmed at all . We have special provision and theres a special criteria. The leadership has been implementing for a pure code of years for the place of deployment or the legal precedence. We can get back with exact criteria. Is that statutory or is that just the rule . I will get back to do if theryou ifthere is a statutory t it is our criteria. We have a practice if somebody lives in wisconsin that goes to school in ohio, returns every summer break given how much people go to school nowadays it might be half the time spent both places, and that person i think therefore should file taxes in wisconsin but you are saying they should be considered a resident of ohio. The enumeration criteria doesnt match the tax requirements and what we do with College Students is where they usually reside in the look of april 1 so basically to simplify me generally count fulltime College Students where they are residing in if they ar and if ta College Campus outside of the state, that is where we counted them so the university of wisconsin you will have a lot of students from ohio that would be counted there. Its to capture the count for that capacity. Said they are on spring bre break. April 1 particularly is in the pandemic. With regards to diplomats in an apartment in virginia for six months you count a person for the census. Its based on the usual residence. I think there are some exceptions of people actually living in an embassy that we do count people as they usually reside. If a student comes here from france and then leaves for three months and comes here for three and a. That might be a tough question. It means where they physically are. I talked to people while ago in the last panel and i gave an example in which someone from iowa pays tax in th in iowa thee to wisconsin because mom is in home hospice and they want to take care of their mom. They are intended to return to iowa. At what point for the purpose of the census is that for something to bperson goingto be counted in instead of iowa . Its probably going to be that they claim they usually reside if it is hard to determine [inaudible] please mute your devices. You will get extra time. Im sorry. In that situation at what point does a person say im counted in iowa and stood of wisconsin. There will be an individual factual circumstance. I might add generally when people particularly students move to Madison Wisconsin generally the sort of tradeoff if they come from another state they are not counted where they are paying taxes and vice versa obviously so many people in the country i could be one 16th. That is correct. It was interesting and i would like to add to it americans living abroad assigned american citizens but working abroad or maybe vacationing abroad. Where are they counted parks if they are not usually residing in the u. S. One reason has been researching prior case law as i understand it. At the same time we have people from those countries that may be living here with the same circumstance so we only count those residing in the country. For whatever purpose that they dont count them. Thank you, madam chair. I wanted to talk to you about the time line that they were working under the. In my understanding correctly at the Field Operations indias dynamics that you have referred to. We did have a shift in schedule because of this pandemic. In late march we had to call a halt to the operations of governance into the businesses we basically have to suspend the obligations and at a point in time we had to start to begin our assessment process. When do we think with the Current College we can restart the process and has you are well aware nationally with the president s task force they begin to play out criteria and guidance for what we call reopening and resuming the obligations and we are opening or 248 offices all across the nation. We have to do that safely and also enumerates safely. Was there a request by the administration . I think it came to congress to push back by two or three months tabulations it is my understanding there have been somhad beensome discussion that considerations of that and also its been reported in the news. Isnt it true that kerry recently the administration appears to have reversed the direction on that and they want the census to be wrapped up quickly the tabulation before the end of the year are you aware of that . Im not aware of all the many reasons except to say the Census Bureau and others want us to proceed as rapidly as possible and to get this complete and accurate count as soon as possible. Do you worry about the census being compromised if there is pressure to finish it to quickly, and what would that be in your mind . How do you give us the assurance that the census can be conducted in a way that yields the robots revolt . We want a complete and accurate census so there will certainly be a consideration as to when we consider the job is done the administration originally seemed to be reasonably accommodating the pressure of the pandemic on your efforts its how the results are tabulated for certain purposes. That would align with your own judgment that you needed to push the few obligations back by two or three months that was consistent. They are looking for money to push the process forward and its what would be a very premature way and they are undercutting the ability to get this done properly. It could undermine the census so we are going to keep a close eye on this and try to protect the independence of the process from the sort of politics leaning in on you right now and with that they will yield back. I want to thank the gentleman for raising the important point. The professionals told me they need at least ten weeks to do a professional count and bigger starting on august 11 and theres been some rumors of trying to complete it by september 31. The professionals ive talked to in the Census Bureau say that its impossible that they need to have the full ten week ticket to a knock on the door at least six times four and accurate count and we are supporting secretaries suggestion and request to extend the time for the census i think that is clearly unconstitutional and wrong. I want to thank you for helping me out earlier and becoming the chair. Thank you, madam chairwoman she asked if you were here voluntarily or by subpoena spinnaker you here voluntarily or by subpoena . Voluntarily, that is correct. It is counting every person safeguarding the 2020 census ipad the distinction of being confirmed by the Senate Unanimously the first time in 1990 by the committee that was chaired by then senator biden and then most recently by senator ron johnson. I served six administrations, so i had considerable experience, and i think they determined that i met the qualifications by statute as well as their criteria for being an unbiased objection. Thank you for the service and clarification. For the u. S. Census bureau you are the main guy representing the Trump Administration before the committee today. I will say that my statute, my selection was to be nonpartisan and the agency is not partisan. You stated the president s directive stated in part to provide information to the extent practical to exercise the president s discretion and carry out the policy at the exclusion of illegal aliens from the apportionment based to the extent the maximum extent of the president s discretion under the law and that is the quote from the president s productive. You say that this doesnt change the Census Bureaus plans. Do you stand by that statement . I do. The obligations will continue as planned in the context of the president ial memorandum it doesnt impact. Its a request for the special tabulation for the apportionment purposes. To determine the census and your appearance before the committee today despite the fact its a premeditated effort to identify the administration and the census efforts i applaud your courage. are challenging. That makes two of us thank you for appearing today. I yield. We now recognize the congressman. Thank you very much madame chair for this hearing i know you cant speak about on these issues that the irony the position of the administration is that undocumented immigrants are not persons. In that respect and that analysis shares the finding of the United States Supreme Court from dred scott which was monuments decision that they were not persons so im just saying that because you should understand why we are appalled by that position the challenge to get the accurate count and to have challenges with broadband in our state. And workers who are helping in the agricultural sector. I understand the bureau for economic studies predicted two. 3 percent drop it in the 8 percent drop of households of noncitizens including noncitizens. Has a self Response Rate live in rural areas and how do you address that . We do this by census tracts and anyone in the country can go to our website and see how the jurisdiction and community is doing with self Response Rates. We are well aware in some Rural Communities to have some special challenges with those special procedures. In my prepared statement we talked about the updated leave and also various ways of increased mailings we are doing in the low response areas with a variety of things in the weeks ahead beginning august 11 we should be in our communities hoping we made progress in the Rural Communities do everything we can according to the best of our ability and informed by the knowledge of the past. Its hard to get access and coming from the Census Bureau so the specific being you are doing in the immigrant community. The most important thing that we have our Communications Campaign with very targeted communications on radio and those that will resonate and they get the information. In addition we have a partnerships specialist selected from those areas to have knowledge of those areas and to use our partners with 400,000 organizations the largest ever they literally reach into every community in this country. If you are unsuccessful how does that undercount the efforts of states like vermont . If you have the undercount the census data is some of the most used data at least indirectly in the country its used for the allocation of resources of federal state and local and decisionmaking and the private sector. It is very useful and our theme helps to shape the future with the 2020 census so the partnerships are doing a lot and that effort to do half a Million People where we havent received a response we have more than that with our partnerships. Congressman roy . Thank you chairwoman. Thank you for your stamina. Present on the first panel now going into the second but we appreciate your service to our country. I have a couple of questions to your predecessors and want to make sure i understand this correctly am i right in my understanding that when you dont get a response that there are systems in place and you cant find the person it what you find it in one house in the neighborhood and then there is that second characteristic where you imbue those characteristics people can say there are five white votes and then we will say there five white votes in this house in my roughly right that is something you engage in from the people you are counting . I would have to qualify my answer we do use that process we have exhausted all efforts with the individuals at that residence as you pointed out. There is a process but there are times we have reason to believe someone is in the household that we are unable to communicate with them then we do have those methods. Im sorry to interrupt we have limited time. Do we have a rough estimate . Hundreds of thousands or millions or counting the uncountable. What are we talking about the rough numbers . Those who have exhausted efforts with reason to believe and in those instances if they live in a household. I would appreciate a response to that with that characteristic and the method you use to fill in the holes. And my correct overseeing the tabulation for redistricting . I am not sure if he has direct Management Fees and Research Methodology section that contributes to that proces process. Did he testify against the efforts of the administration to count or ask the question of citizenship on the census last year in litigation . Im aware he was a witness in the case. And he testified against that portion . I have not reviewed his testimony i think it was considered by many to be that it raise questions. I think its worth noting he has an intimate involvement how to overseeing the tabulation of redistricting but testifying against inclusion of the question that bears some question as to how the process is being carried out. You know how much time i have left. I will end with that i appreciate your response thank you for being here. I now recognize the vice chair of the committee congressman gomez. Thank you madame chair. There is a lot of uncertainty but one thing is definitely clear that the Census Bureau will count through october has time to produce the data as requested when it comes to the population of the United States. Its my understanding sending language for an additional 448 million in funding but not granting your request for the deadline for the data did you see it before it was sent . No i did not but we put in a request for 1 billion i got approximately half of that in the senate bill. Good to know. You did not see it to you did not approve it. Will you describe what it is . I am aware we were requesting additional funds as part of the appropriations process. That also extends a statutory deadline and they sent it without including that language. You say you never saw the language before it was sent . Now going onto the next question have you discussed with leader mcconnell. Let me correct. There were discussions about the schedule and the ability to continually assess. I am aware of that topic. But you did not see the language as you stated. Did you discussed the need for that extension with leader Mitch Mcconnell . I have not discussed house or Senate Leadership any specifics. With this new plan are they pulling back the munition date with the enumeration through october and asking for the four month extension to get the data through congress from april 2021 is that with career census officials . I can certainly say in discussions we have made assessments along the way and they have discussed with the house and senate staff we have briefed on a weekly basis and im sure probably am not privy to those discussions but im sure the topic of extension time and a shift in schedule were discussed. The new schedule approved by careers census officials . We make assessments certainly career officials involved in those recommendations absolutel absolutely. We listen to our career people with their assessment as to where we are. Are you still sticking to the bureaus request for a 12 month extension through april 2021 to reapportion the house of representatives . To be clear someone asked me earlier in my aware of discussions had been held between the administration and congress i am. I reclaim my time your original request the bureau which you are in charge of requested to congress to extend the delivery of data through april 2021. All request my understanding goes through omb. Do you still stand by that extension deadline the bureau made . For planning purposes we made assessments and continue to do so. Yes im looking for a yes or no. It seems like there is an obvious pattern you are not in control of with the Census Bureau. Your name will go down in history but this is the worst census ever conducted with from the United States government you cant just run away and say its only because of the Trump Administration later on you will be responsible your name will be associated with it. So we will keep pushing until we have accountability and a complete and accurate count of every person in the United States. That is our mission congressman and im not involved directly with negotiations on revising the schedule. Thank you for your question and your passion congresswoman miller. Thank you Ranking Member i want to personally thank you for what you are undertaking to do with a herculean effort to complete the census this year in the midst of a pandemic. I wish you all the best of luck Congress Stands ready to support you anyway we can with any essential information or mandate once completed my district is a representation how difficult the census can be to compete. For out of my 18 counties have 100 percent population living in hard to count neighborhoods and last year i spent time making sure i visited each county and i can tell you from firsthand experience how were all my community is in west virginia. This is only exacerbated by the coronavirus and the pandemic in a way it helped us we were very slow to get the pandemic we have not had a to the proportion that has gone on in the country its critical we count each constituent and once we have that count reapportion each fairly as an american citizen that representation in the federal government should always be fair and accurate counting People Living in the United States illegally is an attack on our Democratic Institution and seeks to take away the voice of the American People i strongly support President Trumps actions to protect the sanctity for apportionment and to protect the voice and representation of the American People in congress. The first 2020 census counting regardless of legal residency status. Yes or no . You dont want to get into details people not establishing residency. But your question goes to the heart of the last question and comment we are dedicated to a complete and accurate count of the people residing in the United States. We were poised not to have the very best census ever that remains our goal embrace not only innovations and technologies but our goal is to have the very best count possible a complete and accurate count of everyone. Does it play any role and how it is conducted for its congressional apportionment only once it has been concluded . We do a complete census count of everyone then looking at other data sources to determine whether we can identify a group the president has recommended to subtract from the apportionment account. We will have a complete and accurate account but also working to determine the methodologies to supply that information with a Statistical Agency and the data producing agency not a policy agency. Thats how you apply the memorandum . Thats the way we are proceeding. Correct. Can you hear me . Yes i represent along with congresswoman dan presley with the boston area we have hundreds of thousands of students that attend school within my distric district. So one of the more difficult cities to count because of the influx of students you sent a letter back in june asking for cooperation with the role of students and the list of students attending and their addresses through 2020. I like to get an update on how thats going i am concerned because right now we are experiencing in undercount in the process working with our fantastic secretary of state and has done a great job but running behind our historic count levels compared to the previous census operation how are we making out from a student assessment . Many are learning remotely so they may not be in their intended location and schools have closed down, they are not even in the same city. How are we dealing with that quick. Thats an excellent question. Let me say it may have those facts and figures with me i cannot put my hands on them that we are making progress. Has a set of my Opening Statement we went to do that as accurately and efficiently and as soon as possible. Even though we make progress there is some confusion because there are special provisions for protecting student information. There is a grouping of colleges. I understand i thank you have the most per geographical area in the country, and we want to get that information and roster form to save millions of dollars to get accurately and efficiently for those students living off campus to help pass the bill with the provision and i will bring that to your attention. But we are making progress. I seem to recall 60 percent of the colleges by will check the record on that. And the concern is that perhaps we protect to the data better than anyone that im aware of. Colleges do a lot but we protected as well if not better and all the safeguards of that information we would like to get a efficiently. We appreciate your interest. We cannot solve everything on this call but if i could get my colleagues from that delegation from myself and ms. Presley if we could get an assessment on that. Absolutely. Thank you so much. I yield back the balance of my time. I now recognize congresswoman porter. Thank you very much. Is a Census Bureau using state administrative records to conduct the 2020 census operation . We do use administrative data for some purposes to discover if there is duplication in the management of the census i cannot tell you exactly which data set. Are they using thes records to determine the citizenship status of an individual . We do have administrative records that will be used for us looking at the numbers of citizens and noncitizens. That is correct. There should be the sor and explaining with these are used for have you published this . It is my understanding we have complied with all the regulatory needs i will double check do you know if that sor and explains what the records are used for required by omb . The administrative records . Are we sharing that information with omb . Actually we have to have their permission to do that. Great. Does that statement you gave to omb does it disclose to the American Public you are using their records to determine if they are a citizen. The executive order is transparent and points that out and actually the agencies provide that. Respectfully you have an obligation to comply with the privacy act and to file that system that requires a statement for the office of management and budget. Do those statements for which you are responsible for as required that the administrative records will be used to determine citizen ship status. I will double check on that but it is my understanding. I have assisted record. Without objection. So the answer is no dont make any mention you are using records for citizenship so you will be using these records you should have submitted a request to omb to explain exactly how those records will be used the notices are very clear how and for what purpose the information is to be used the president s executive order does not relieve you of that requirement to be transparent. Im not sure i understood the vast a last part of your question. Will you commit to following the law with regard to the privacy act and finally a new statement of purpose to omb. If i am correct the existing statement has no mention for the purpose of determining citizenship. I will certainly ask our Legal Counsel to see if we are in compliance. Thank you very much. Will you count every person regardless of citizenship because that is what is required by the constitution . As i said today we will count everyone living in this nation. The constitution says representatives will be apportioned according to their respective numbers what do you think person means in that context . That was the topic of the first panel and as i said in my opening remarks discussing the policies and legal analysis it wouldnt be prudent for me at this time we have to get the work done i will not engage quite frankly im not prepared to engage in the legal analysis of the policy debate. We are producing statistical products and it would be the best available data that we hav have. I appreciate that but you cannot talk about your faithful execution of the duty and then dodge questions of the constitution in the same hearing but we do appreciate you following up on the privacy act i will follow up with you directly. I yield back. Thank you. Thank you for your questions and before i recognize our Ranking Member for his closing remarks, i went to seek clarity on one thing. I asked earlier if you would send this committee the results of the analysis of the president s memo and you responded the bureau would be transparent so can i take that as a yes that you will share the results of the analysis . It is the policy and practice to share with the world any final decisions. But in the discussions of that i cannot pledge that. As decisions are made they will be transparent for everyone in particular the users of the data. I now recognize the Ranking Member for his closing remarks. I appreciate you calling this hearing today on the 2020 censu census. And to reiterate what i said to say everyone should complete their census work and engage with enumerators if they come to your door. Its very important every single american and is counted. I support the president to exclude ill legal immigrants from the apportionment count as the majority of americans including Illegal Immigrants for representation in congress only dilutes the representation of all americans who vote in elections and makes a mockery of the basic principle of one person, one vote. I want to make the point to correct the record of what we have heard today. Democrats have made misleading or incorrect statements i would like to take this opportunity to correct. First, we heard from democrats that the president s memoranda means Illegal Immigrants are not counted for purposes for the 2020 census. This is not correct. Illegal immigrants are still counted for purposes of the 2020 census. And with that census data to conduct the apportionment with the Electoral College votes among the states Illegal Immigrants will be excluded from the apportionment base. Second we have heard from democrats president s memoranda will divert funding to states as a result of the 2020 census this is also incorrect the memorandum does not director dave or any federal funding from future the complete 2020 data with the state legislatures and municipalities when making funding decisions. We also heard from democrats the Supreme Court ruled acting as someone is a citizen is unconstitutional that is not correct in fact the Supreme Court actually held asking if someone is us citizen on the census is lawful the justices said that in light of the early understanding along practice under the enumeration cause to inquire about citizenship on the census questionnaire although the administration failed to comply with procedural requirements it was not ruled to be unconstitutional we have also heard the memorandum is unconstitutional not so we heard from him the proper understanding we should only a portion seats based on the citizenry especially those who are here illegally. They are here illegally. With perverse incentives to undermine the principle of one person one vote. Representation should matter to everyone. I yield back. Thank you to the Ranking Member and all participants today especially you directory it thank you thank you voluntarily to come here to be with us. Its an undisputed fact the coronavirus has changed everything the way we do things the coronavirus has changed the census because of the challenges and concern and the enumeration is put off from the testimony today the hard to count will begin august 10th and when you put this off to collect information and to send the apportionment to the state to the end of april 2021 and the Democratic Caucus we passed the bill and included the date change it is against the backdrop of these challenges you are confronting with hard to count and coronavirus i would call it a disruptive and historic disease that has overburdened the Census Bureau creating more challenges but all of government and against this backdrop that President Trump issued what i consider an illegal memorandum last week for the purpose that we call this emergency hearing in response to that and this would dramatically change the manner in which the census count is reported. I agree with my colleague they you have testified and everyone will be counted we will all work hard to get undocumented and everyone counted in the census. But on monday, the bureau hosted on its website, the Census Bureau is working towards a plan to complete field Data Collection by october 31s october 31st, 2020. But i noticed today this notice has been removed from your website but it hasnt been replaced with a new date for when that supposed to happen. I believe what the census professionals say to get the field data by october 31st and report later april 2021. But it has been reported in the press that the administration is trying to rush the apportionment count and to push it back to december 31st before President Trump would leave the white house we dont know the outcome of the election but leaving before the Election Results if he loses the election. And then to sacrifice the accuracy that the president s intent is to have all of this done before he leaves office. I hope you will live up to the standards of professionalism and the request secretary ross i checked with those and that the data is completed by octobe october 2020 and by april 2021. I also want to say without objection all members have five legislative days to submit additional written questions for their response and i asked the witnesses the hearing is adjourned. [inaudible conversations] mike pompeo before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee to review the 2021 budget request. At 9 am eastern on cspan2, doctorfauci and admiral brett g gerwatt, for comprehensive plan on the coronavirus pandemic. Watch live coverage on cspan2 and friday on cspan2 Live Streaming and on demand viewing or listen on the go with the cspan radio apps. Heres