Transcripts For CSPAN2 Eddie Glaude Begin Again 20240712

The id like to thank our to order begin other books by dr. Glaude and cornell west. Lab well be donating to the poor peoples campaign. Please allow a few days for fulfillment. Its credit wall we support independent publishers and independent book stores and you can do this in three ways among others. First, by buying both from places like hey market books or from lab bring. And if youre in a position to milwaukee a donation there will be a card on the screen how to to do this and folk posting that information in the youtube. You can watch this video on our hay market books. And like this video now and share with as many people as you can. Folks need to know about this good work and i want to let everybody know about a couple of Upcoming Events and live streams. That includes tomorrow, at 8 00 p. M. Eastern, the abolished policing, not just the police, this weekend, hay market is hosting a socialism conference on july 4th. On the eight at 5 00 p. M. Eastern, you can join us for a conversation on policing without the police, race, technology and the new code. Ridge for the events. A few housekeeping items. Were moderating the chat but cant guarantee ann will observe our Community Guidelines and people who violate the guidelines will have their commented deleted as quickly as werable and for folks who want to follow the chat we suggest you use the talk chat option instead of the live chat because theres so many of us joining this call, up words upwards of 9,000. We might need your patient if we have problems. He we have instructions in the chat. If the feet is bankrupted you can navigate back to the youtube hay market page and then it should resume without interruption. This event will have live closed captions and to enable the captions click the cc button on the bottom of the video. If youre having trouble with tess close closed captions. Thank you no maggie rum rumfelt for captioning this event. And then well have a conversation with these brilliant humans for but 40 minutes, and have a question and answer interview, reminder about events and then have q a section, and now when you have questions just powe them in the chat. Its my pressure to introduce dr. Glaude and dr. West. Books are in a shade of blue, practicing na temp and the politics of black america. The professor of hes going to correct he africanamerican studies and the chair of the department of africanamerican studies at princeton university. If that changed hell have to tell us. Dr. West is the professor of the practice of public philosophy. He is the owes of a new podcast, the tightrope. They will be discussing dr. Glaudes important and beautifully written book, bin again, just released yesterday, to welldeserved sales. This book is absolutely beautiful. Its forcefully hopeful in a moment where we need that. Im going to read just a little bit of where this book gets its name from and then well start with why now. It begins at the beginning in a crucial and encouraging space. When the dream was and al that love and labor seemed to have come to nothing, the scattered, we knew where we had been, what we had tried to do, who had cracked, gone mad, died or been murdered around us, not everything is lost. Responsibility cannot be lost. It can only be abdicated. And when you refuses abdication one begins again. Welcome, dr. Glaude. Thank you. Im so delighted to be here. Thank you, maya. Happy to have you and excited to jump in with this question. Why . Why baldwin, why now . Well, we saw first of all just let me thank everybody for making this possible. All the folked at Haymarket Press and those at lab ring. Waynt to think dr. West who has exited a love that enveloped me and made me possible. So this is making my heart smile just to be with you in this moment. So its exciting. Im 51 years old and still giddy. Its hilarious. Why baldwin and why now . We saw baldwin emerge in the context of 2014 and even before. As black lives matter was beginning to give voice to its own desire for more just america. They were reaching [loss of audio] black machine who spoke a kind of truth, straight, no chaser who carried a kind of rage and love, who queered american politics and offered a different kind of understanding what it mean the to reach for a different way of being in the world. I wanted to turn to baldwin because i was trying to grapple with my own despair and disillusionment in this moment so after the extraordinary moment of 2008 and election of barack obama and then we saw for eight years what that meant, and then we witnessed Police Murdering our brothers and sisters, and we saw these young folk in the streets, risk life and limb and what dead we sunny response in voter i. D. Laws, voter suppression, and then the country vomited up donald trump and this was a moment of betrayal, profound bow trail. The country did it again. What i. Ad to do is to return to who jim b who had been invoked so much in this moment to figure out out how he debt with his moment of betrayal. When the country turned its back then. How did he pick up the meeses and what resources were available to us now, because he is to my mind one of the most insightful critics of American Dream address and makes sense democracy for made sense to reach for him in this moment. That makes perfect sense for me. Thank you for waiting us and what this book is, which is part history, part historic cal grounding and the disappointment that follows thesive rights movement. And the Civil Rights Movement and you pointed between the notion of hope in this practice of constant rebuilding. I wonder if each of you could take a moment to speak to the practice of hope and witness now and our responsibilities to care for the witness. We have seen so many nasty things happen to witnesses who witnessed the murder of george floyd for us and shared that information, how do we practice hope in the midst of the responsibility of witnessing. How do we take care of our witnesses . I would love to hear what you think, doc. Oh, first i want to say sister, maya, the work of haymarket and the poetry section and the manuscript session in general. They blessed to have you my dear sister. Thank you, sir, and indeed, and this brother right here, though, lord have mercy. Looking in his eyes and remembering 30 years ago i was fairly convinced that sitting next to my brother Henry Louis Gates jr. , i said hes going to be one of the great exemplars of our tradition and you see you talk us about the greatest tradition in the modern world and looks at catastrophe u. N. Finchingly and still deals out love warriors. Lover of beauty, goodness, and lover of god. And those 30 years have been such a magnificent journey for me. This is a very joyous occasion in the grim day of the decay and decline of the american empire. Inning dialogue with hi dear brother eddie and what you have in this text i want people to see what it looks like. What you have in this text is the way in which you attempt to regenerate and revitalize the greatness of tradition of black shell electric to alls or any intellectuals concerned but black does and sufferings so begins with bat win talking about the end of hit life. This is where hope comes from. I tried do me work, he says, i hope somebody will find when they dig in the records and the rubble and the ruins something that could be of use to them to find the best of me. This is what we have in this text. Thats why it really brings tears to ones eyes. Like the sister aretha, she Start Talking to a whole new her. Somebody listen to Mary Lou Williams on the piano. Eddie glaude is this exemplary figure among others as well. We have some others. Jonathan and we get mark and we got william hart and brother dyson is part of that, too. Imani. A whole cloud of witnesses to keep this tradition alive so eddie glaude represents the voices of a cloud of witnesses, a custodian of a rich inheritance and a care taker of a great tradition of a hated people that still keep dishing out these levels of truth and beauty. So this is why to engage with somebody like baldwin, who is the liest levels grateness, greatness not in terms of just sales. I want the book to be number one but the greatness of the text is not measured by just in the number. It is measured by what went into it, the courage, the courage to love, and the courage to generate hope and to practice hope is to be connected to the best of ones tradition to understand what is going to do, the making and molding that love down in the gut bucket mav enough sent mississippi magnificent mississippi. Look at that smile. Thats what is in it and to make that tradition available to whole world, the whole world dealing with different catastrophes, so somehow keep keeping on, keep on pushing. That what you get in begin again and let be honest, its the tearsoaked, bloodsoaked, and yet soulful tradition. Thats what you get in this text. Absolutely. Doc, first of all, i hope my mama is listening. Theft what i want i pray she heard that because going to bring me to tears, but theres a line that so many lines in jimmy that will blow you everybody. But theres a moment in istanbul, hes being interviewed by ebony, and he uses begin again and baldwin is sitting there and its 1970, i think, and the interviewer asks him, was is it about hope . This is page 145 in the text. I remember. I remember that. Remember baldwin i remember exactly what he said selfquarantine what did he say. He said hope must be invented every day, every day. Invented every day. Is that right . Thats right. Thats our tradition, brother jacker thats our tradition. Hope is not abstract, its verb. Its motion, its movement. Its practice. And you got to be improvisational. Jazz, blues, you better reinvent that thing every day good morning, heartache, i got reinvent my resources to build with that heartache because its going to come back the next day, the next day. Billy holliday, echoing through if with her generous, baldwin understand musicians mean the world to him. Absolutely, thats i was thinking but that line an as an to maya. In the space of the assassination of dr. King, they murdered an apostle of love, and jimmy collapses, could barely pick up the pieces, tries to commit suicide in 69, has to find relationships collapsing around him. Still thinks he is this loveless child who is ugly because hi daddy told hill he was so ugly that diabout believe anybody could love that ugly little boy. Finds himself in istanbul, trying to figure out how to speak to this moment, and there he gives utterance to this line, this formulation, that doc just laid out. Hope is invented every day. Every day. Thats real, brother. Thats real. A necessary practice that we in fact are the hope. It is our commitment to showing up that is the hope. That is the model. That is the approximate of witness, and just so right so often. Sister maya, all the courage and risk and willingness to be crushed and misunderstood and misconstrued and purely pushed to the fringes and still have that kind of bounceback. Thats the you see what i mean . That is the what we have in brother eddies book here in they middle 0 of blues like situation in the u. S. Empire, he is saying, you know, we blues people, this aint new for us. We been here before. Not this particular historical moment but similar kind of moment and its a human thing, not just a black thing because black folk are human beings and dont have to prove nothing to nobody. And have to learn how to love and fight and hope and laugh in our familys with our mamas and daddies and mosques and synagogues and churches and universities. Eddie working that out. You know, princeton didnt have in mind generalus from mark point mississippi, mississippi, to be distinguished university professor. Now, just hes our fellow colleague and im not surprised. We got teachers and those who see us as we continue to grow and mature, we not surprised. But then the fact he still like baldwin is connected to the best of his tradition. Thats the thing but it. That other moment you when you tells the students come on. No, no, you tell that story, brother. This is gorgeous moment. They nagged, nonviolent action group, who were so central to snick, they produced that radical cohort in the group, stokley car michael who would michael all come out of that group, so they invite him to come to campus. Supposed to be on stage with ross ellison who couldnt make it and others and he lays bare and then they retreat after the Panel Discussion malcolm was in the audience, too. So whenever im in town and hear the little brother is going to speak i want to come here because i know hes going to speak the truth. They go to apartment come mex, an apartment of a member and jimmy needs a scotch. Theres no liquor, and theyre talking into the late midnight hour, until the sun begins to come up and baldwin has the last word and jimmy said, if you promise your elder brother that you will not believe what the world says about you, i will promise you that i will never betray you. And kwame says in this autobiographyy, and fellwell quotes it and jimmy never betrayed us, no matter what they said about him. Never betrayed us. Theft powerful. Was setting next to stokley carm michael and the cried like a baby. Hey is not the crying kind of brother. He knew that given all the fats and foibles of all of us as human beings, baldwin never sold out. He was never fake. Never a phony, never a fraud, never a coward. Given all of his ups and downs twoss attempts right . 65 and 69. Wrestling with despair. Thats true for all of us. All of us may opt for that way of wrestling with despair but never bow trade everyday black people and evidence people and thats a rare thing. Its a beautiful thing. Its majestic, its sublime, youre able to tease that out. This is the most important text written on baldwin in terms terf his genius and its relevance. I love the blues. Connection to the music is powerful but the term of the relevance of this particular historic moment, politically, morally and spiritually. This is the text. Thank you. One absolutely. Made it abundantly clear that James Baldwin is a man who looks interest the fates fates of hism demons because he was person who believed you made yourself from your experiences and your reality, and maybe you can give yourself enough distance to get the perspective because you have to show up for your people and where youre from and for yourself and thats clear. Such a great point. I barely survived writing the book because i wanted to come in im reading jimmy ive always had this kind of i knew what i decided to start reading him seriously he would ask things of me that i wasnt quite ready for when i was younger. And theres a sense in which baldwin assumes this as a precondition to say anything pout the messiness of the world you have deal with your own mess. So you have to deal with the interior winds and pains as a precondition to say anything but the world because the bald win thing thursday messiness of the world this reflection of the lies and dishonesty we tell ourselves. So im sitting here wanting to write about trumpism and the moment, and im grappling with the fact that im a vulnerable little boy. Still dealing with my daddy issues. Still grapple being with the fact thats why i began this way. I loved my father, black love. Made me possible. Woke up every day in the mississippi heat, used to sweat his belts rotten in the heat, delivering mail, but he could look at me and scare me to death. I would shudder and i had been grappling with what it means to have that fear put inside of me so early, and i was as a i was writing the sentences came out but mow dealing with my daddy, and by the time i get to the end of the novel, the end of the book, my fathers with me as i visit jimmys grave, and im talking about how us telling each other how we love each other, how he calling me to tell me what to say on television, and how proud he is of me. Right . And when you read jimmy, you read bald win notes of a native son, his critique of his stepfather is scathing. But you read bald win by baldwin by the time he bow tot die in December Think later write little about this father, he understands what the world did to him. Its not so much him but the context of his living. So, i think this the writing of beginning again is a kind of writing ive never done in public before, im taking risks, because jimmy demanded it of me, and i i should say this really quickly, hes forced me to deal with the scaffolding of my own life. Yes. Thats absolutely hes asking that of our country as well. Those who are trying to pull the nation back from the near fascist moment, to be honest, because narratives are important so if you could speak to your definition of the lie and the notion of a value gap, resolving those things, aisled love to hear you discuss that. The best way to talk but the lie is to quote a passage on page 9 from jimmys essay, 1964 essay, the white problem. He wrote it for robert average goodwins edited volume, 100 years of emans make see says the people who settled the country had a fatele flaw. They could recognize a man we they saw him. New he wasnt anything else but a man. But since they were christians, and since they had already decided they came here to establish a free country, the only way to justify the role this chatle was playing in ones life was to say he was not a man, or if he wasnt, then no crime had been committed. That lie, is the basis of our president trump. And so what baldwin is saying here at the heart of it there had been lies told about black peoples capacity, about our character, about our passions, all to justify this system of exploitation, this system, this cruel barbaric system of slavery at the heart of the founding of the modern world, right . At the heart of the founding of the country. And so not only do you have lies about black people, youll have lies about what white persons have down to black people, and then you have the lie thats so the key opinion theres a way in which the lie works that it mall forms i use that verb on purpose mall malforms any expert to expose the country to the reality of what it has done. So anything that comes to reveal the truth of what the nation has done, what it has done to the native people, done in haiti and cuba and the philippines, anything that reveals that america is not the shining city on the hill of the redeem ever nation or the example of democracy achieved. Anything that attempts to reveal that reality is immediately dismissed as heresy. Thats what i moon bin the lie and that lie is the architecture within which the value gap breeds and its to fundamental belief that white People Matter more than others ask thats at the heart of our social arrange. , our political arming. Ed, value valuation of bk folk and white folk that lead to distribution of advantage and disadvantage that distorts the, which of those who old is so they cant become the kind of people their perception of democracy requires. Sounds to me what youre saying is that the key tool we have to fighting that foundational fear that were born with is to have a true reality, a sense of who we actually are, we in fact are human, without having to ask that we are equalthat we are as important, that we are deserving of wealth. We are not us ily. The thats the crucial truth we have to hold our heart to fight the fear that enters in our breath if want to read a little passage from the book and ask you one more question about this notion of innocence. The most pernicious event is he fitting the stories when americas nipses threatened by reality. When measured against our actions, the temperature we have told of uses but america being a divine i sank evidence nation called to be a beak cop of right and a moral force in the world is a lie. The idea of the lost cause as just and hospital assessment of what happened of the civil war is a lie. The stories we tell ourselves to that the Civil Rights Movement and racial progress in the country with rosa parks courage and dr. Kings moral investigation and unevenly venom of black power culminating in the election of barack obama are often too launch lies so i wonder, what could be gain if we disabuse of us of the notion of innocence. As it relate to the citizenry and the state. One level we could leave hip the swaddling clothing. We could become mature. Grow up. Perpetual state offed a lessens so you dont have be responsible for anything. The lie allows us to exist in the kind of wilful ignorance about what we have done and doing. Remember the moment in 63 when he talked about what is happening to black folk of he says its not just that line that is echoed in that whats that movie with the the late brother, ice cube and he said they dont know or they dont show, remember that movie . Boys buoy z in the boy z in the hood. They dont show or they dont know. Hes saying notice not they dont know. They will any dont want to acknowledge what theyre doing to millions of the their fellows and baldwin says its not enough that you can do that and then claim innocence . Innocence is the crime. Innocence is the crime. I think once we leave that behind, were stepping into maturity. Thats why i went to part of the greatness of baldwin is he knows how think White Supremacy is in the souls of black people. For real. The lie has been something that too many black people have consented. To if you really believe youre less beautiful, less intelligence, you run around scared, intimidated and fearful all the time and laughing when its aint funding and scratching when it dont itch. Wear a mask your whole life. The only thing to break the mask of fear is love. Love of beauty will break you. Ate dramatic. You listen to the emotions and the coltrane. You have to wrestle for the third a part of the love supreme. Jimmy takes o comes of the piano, jimmy on the base fireworks then trane takes it all and thats the stuff that can break the back of fear because fear is something that all human beings have to come to terms with. As sister maya point it oat it. People are fearful. The an way to you degree into maturity its through a of it and memory and the love that went into you that empowers you toe break the kind of anxiety that dont ayou thank you be the free person you ought to be. And brother eddie lays this out. Love forces us to take off the mask we know we cannot live within but fear we cannot live without. You about to to break it out. You got to break it out. Muhammad ali. These are free black people. Bald win was part of that cloud of witnesses, and brother eddie. Eddie put more responsibility on himself now because baldwin was someone who was chewed up and spit out. By the liberal establish. He thats white brother eddie argues, brother skip, brother hylton, they wrong. Baldwin was great and by no name in the street he lost his literary power, he was bitter. No. Reread glaude and get straightened out. There is a genius in baldwin after the death of malcolm and martin and met medgar. He can only fall back 0 then love ohio family because also he got closer to death, that those things that really, really, really matter, that can sustain you, thats what are going to fall back on. And ancestors that we get. Brother eddie lays this out. He sure does. Baldwin never stopped telling the truth even when it seemed he was fully disheart ed. Dr. Glaude points out in a passage in the first couple of servings that says that could be read as saying, baldwin gave up. He gave a hallmark for old aim which is not something he introduce to our young activityis or talk about much at school. We talked earlier but the cursiveness having the Third Movement and rehear the melody even though he is doing more for to show the beauty and the destruction in the lyric. Thats important. I want to ask turn to this idea that dr. Glaude points out in the book of trauma memory. Yes. Things come out. Didnt stop playing the same facts, just had a different perspective, a new lens that comes with age and with devastation. Yeah. You know, i try to say that i think the scholarship around jimmy is much more articulated and its just amazing to see the work with James Baldwin, with Dwight Mcbride and others, so the traditional reading of old baldwin, early baldwin, late baldwin, folk dont really buy into that anymore, that silly biography by james campbell, has been kind of displaced by others who have been working in jimmys work, but i want to hold on to this claim that theres a continuity of themes running how to jimmy that he is grappling with ideas under different material conditions, that change how he is thinking about love, identity, history, memory, how he is thinking but White Supremacy and the like. So, its not that he goes bad in the teague or suck comes succumbed to propaganda of white power. He is grappling with the conditions under which black folk have to live and the conditions under which love has to be expressed. Somebody has to really grapple with the evidence of things not seen. When he writing about the chalmers and what are we dealing with when the black babies are being killed and black folk in power. How to grapple with this the book needed a good editing but its a brilliant text that requires a different kind of reading. I think, though, that trauma is at the heart of how we think but reading jimmy in this latter phase, howl he is grappling with and narrating trauma. Theres a line i want to get to in the witness chapter and i remember writing this on my trying to figure out i got up after i wrote it and poured myself a stiff drink. Because i knew something had just happened. And it guess Something Like this, narrating trauma is on 41 narrating trauma fragments how we remember. We recall what we can, and what we desperately need to cope keep of uses together, pain any present, threatened to ring the soul with that happens nothing else matters. Telling the story of trauma in fits and starts isnt history in any formal sense. Its the way traumatic works, recollections caught in the pitch of battle between the flinting and remembering of thats toney. Facts bungled on behalf of much needed truths. Try to keep our heads above water and keeps our legs and arms moving below the surface and then on page 43 page 43 and 44. We want everybody to know, arrest those powerful words, page 43 and then 44. I dont have my glasses on. I had to take mine off to check it out, too. Its 43 and then on. Then on 45 i quote this passage. Terror cannot be remembered. One blots it out. One invents or creates a permit or persona beneath this accumulation, the terror which the memory repudiates and then the cruel ironis that terror, the terrorists move us about. We dig trenches to re direct the memories and give them to know away from us but like the watered of the Mississippi River the memories always return, flooding everything no matter how high we build the stilts. I think at the end bat baldwining tries to in the latter part of his career trying to tell the story of what happened and trying to alter offer a language that will allow to us pick up the pieces and move forward. You cannot to my mine, you cannot understand what toneis doing with memory and beloved and not understand what baldwin is doing with memory in no name in the street. Struck actually its structurally its almost like theyre echoing each other. Triggering the return. The may he much, much is moat out. The do plotted out the mind is a strange thing. Hes dealing on the verge of madness in the statement and its that thats rich. But back to mayys reading at the very beginning of our dialogue where right before you talk but beginning again, if you talking about what is not lost and what is not lost is responsibility. Uhhuh. Responding and ability to respond, accountability. Accounting of ones self. Accounting of ones community or society and the world, answerability. That brother jeff, one of his words. We have to be able to answer one another and you say this is baldwin gets this in blackhawks. Thats the musicians must take responsibility for the notes they play, right or wrong. Responsibility for the sound, responsibility for the impact of the audience are you going to touch the soul of the folks to enable them in such a way they can be agents of love and hope, and i think baldwin understood and brother eddie lays this out so magnificently that the black intellectual ought to be like the black musician. Black intellectuals dont have that status. Here come another arrogant so and so looking down on everyday people thinking they better than uppitiy and so forth. At the black intellectuals had the same status, we hungry former poetry. We want high tea, we going on and on. Yes. The argue. That the poets are black intellectuals and absolutely. That is true. She says absolutely, absolutely. But the gap, sister maya, between the intellectuals in the academy versus the musicians is still a gap there. In the academy and moving we musician. I hear you. Brother eddie knows part of my critique of im assault suspicious of revival of folks. And we appreciate baldwin is unbelievable. And ive been critical of brother colt and this voice is very important. Baldwin is a hire standard, very few bald baldwins any two or three general rays let alone one but the voice is very important, including colt, my critique is, and brother eddie we talk with mark and pete and chuck and others, that baldwin doesnt linger with his critique of the worth over the black bourgeois see. He will critique white liberals is devastating himself critique of black liberalled, undeveloped. Its there but he doesnt really sustain it. Its not indictment opt the black buttigieg was bourgeois see and the post obama time we live fireworks we have has turn his back to he black poor and borking chas he. The best of the black bourgeois see, beautiful. I think this is why we need to return to the evidence that things not seen. The atlanta situation. I think that this is presizely the moment youre looking for. Because balled bald what happens when White Supremacy still obtains and black folk have power. What do we make of atlanta, this representation of the very class that youre talking about. White folk arent the object in the the object of consideration as evidence of things not seen. White supremacy is. You make a wonderful distinction between white enemy and people who happen to be white which i love. Trying to get us to Pay Attention to the ideology of whiteness. The object of that critique is the way in which power functions and the way in which capitalism functions and what happens when we get access to it. White supremacy is still obtains, and because the book is often i remember when i interviewed markle fellwell for the become, i said we got return the evidence of things not seen and he said, oh, no, hell no. He just wrote that. Jimmy probably was drunk when he wrote that, eddie, i said probably but that doesnt lead us to the judgment of text. I think the general dismissal of that book, it few we dont read it because its independent in the price of the ticket, its not in the library of america, our collection so i kind of dangles out there. And i think thats exactly where we would look for that critique youre looking for. Because what happens is that black gets so disarm evidence in the aim of obama. We didnt have enough critical voices telling the truth about the connections to wall street and drones and empires and so forth. Everybody wanted to protect him. Black unity is a beautiful thing. Black solidarity is different. Black solidarity means you put a primacy on the least. The poor, the working class, the widows the fatherness, not just the highly successful ones. Theyre not the measure how black people are doing. So i want to ask before we pivot because were gut to move to the part where the questions come, the people mother taylor who did critique obama, who was she still as strong as can be. Princeton, too. Im wildly proud of her. I want to ask one more question, with this framework that dr. West provided to us before we transition to the questions from the audience. So, can you speak to the possibility multiracial democracy while capitalism [loss of audio] you want to take that or i got a whole lot to stay but you going to brake loose on that break loose on that one, my brother. Of course, we have to freedom dream, right . I think theres a possibility for a Multiracial Coalition to speak to the contradictions of capitalism in this moment. I dont as long as capitalism obtains theres the view that some people are disposable. It seems to me. Capitalism is what it is but that doesnt preclude if i understand the question, it doesnt preclude the possibility of Multiracial Coalition. Actually strikes a blow to what capitalism is the contradictions are in full view. One of the interesting thing about the current moment is that the last 40 to 50 years of reaganism, we are its below revealed to be bankrupt. Thats right. All of it contradictions are in full view and so far of what were seeing in the streets are young folk who have come of age in the aim of catastrophe or accumulated grief and the like, you see folk protesting over Police Brutality and the like, you see a kind of solidarity and vulnerability that the pandemic has generated, but the idea underneath it, at least the judgment underneath is that the country is broken. And thats why we see these different groups and coalitions out in the streets, risking their lives we must say because they are risking their lives. So my short answer to the question is, yes, i believe in the possibility of Multiracial Coalitions in the face of capital. Core knell . We got have sol dart and coalition based on deep integrity and willing in the no fight for poor people, beginning we people of color not just black people the original escape is not slavery but the treatment of Indigenous Peoples. America byes a an empire, not a democratic experiment. The experiment was in the bowels of the empire itself, preferred indicated on black folks labor and vicious hatred of black people but we got to he musty racial coalition, no doubt. Just have to make sure all the coalitions have to be unapology apologetic, and baldwin talked about the american style of socialism. Yankee doodle. And exactly. He began a trotskyite. We were young, very much so, and empire. You in the glen ford and all of our leftist folk, they keep the pressure on. America is an empire and a predator capitalist civilization and profoundly White Supremacy at its core, profoundly male supremacist and there have been Freedom Fighters and love war yore out of different traditions. Cultural hill and artistically have been in the vanguard of it. I dont mean to set up that question as though its an opposition. All of the coalitions must be honest and evaluated critically and honestly for black liberals as well as the toting leftists. Absolutely. All right. Thank you. Before we make this transition to audience questions are there thoughts you want to share . I always thought that jimmy was walking with me as i wrote the book. I was i didnttle you this story, doc but aase was wrying the poock, i talked to reverend barber thats way in order to get snob the poor peoples campaign. But you have to buy the book. Reverend bash sir said you need to write this book, brother eddie, we need you could write and then a few weeks late are i be this package in the mail, and reverend barber sent me a candle. Oh. Wow. And then there were these moments, its like when margie he canman who wrote the first biography of jimmie in 1966 and all these amazing quotes in the breaux biography and i remember saying i wish i could find the archives of these quotations and imani perry my writing partner said why dont you call her i sad she got be 100 years old and given what dr. Perry is, she sent me all these telephone numbers be email. So i called the first number, and margie he canman is alive. I go to the apartment in new york and i meet her niece and the niece is says the tapes lost but i got the transcripts. And im reading it wasnt like five to ten pages. It was 100 pages pages of transcription of the interviewed. Baldwins description of witness isnt in serious passage i found in that space. Jimmy sent me to her. The moment when i wanted to visit his grave at the end, with carol winestein the partner of david baldwin, they have a beautiful son together, daniel baldwin. Karl drives me to the carol drives in to the graveyard, the grave site, and we think we are going to fine him and we walking all around and these brothers, they young brothers, millenial, and they smoking woo, they get sootedded im dating myself. Getting high. And roll down the window and it was loud, weed just came in. Strong. And you know we asked i writ about this. Do you nowhere James Baldwin residents grave is, he brother turned around no, he dont know but me might be buried by malcolm and malcolm there, and carol said no. So we returned, i find jimmy, and hes wright behind the young folk. In plain sight. Waiting for us. Wow. Waiting for us. And thats the conclusion i draw. Hes been waiting to see what this history will do for us and hes still waiting. Digging in the blueness, in the wreckage. The third american founding, what brother barber talks about, the third reconstruction, a massive radical democratic awakening. Keep trang of the various forms of domination and evil, in the american empire. Brother, this is the text that is timely and will be timeless in terms of folk who will be reading it many years after the world has our bodies. Can tell you that. Sister maya let me say this. Talk talk but the love. This man had loved me to death. And without miss love, and example, none of this would be possible. He loved me into understanding this country boy from mississippi could Say Something in the world. Gave me the authority to believe to myself and to understand that i have the capacity to think with anybody, to walk in any room to be a free black man, and to understand what it means to walk in love. So, be poured all his love in me and i just want to give him all the glory. Not all the glory, because that goes to god, but you give me so much joy and my god son, langston, one of the great honors of my life. Im hugging her virtually but your parents and your mom and dad in mississippi. Just such a blessing to be part of a great tradition, knowing that you holding up that bloodstained, tearsoaked banner in such a way that the selfexamination goes and in hand with the fortitude, the determination, to keep on fighting, keep on swinging. So beautiful. Edive glaude, jr. What a beautiful exchange. Thank you so much for allowing me to be witness to that. Im so grateful you were able to be loved into the best version of yourself. And that you would share that with me and with us. I feel bad giving a pitch now but all right. Before we begin the audience question is want to remind everyone about this book, begin again which you can buy for Free Shipping if powout in the baldwin code and 10 over sale got to poor peoples campaign. So please do pick up this book that is guiding the young people who need to know about baldwin into the future we are going to fight for together. So do that and also, register for these Upcoming Events. Tomorrow, and then another with register, and also, the mark is hosting a conference on the 4th of july. All right. Its perfect timing. So, we have what lesser known black voices and other voices of color can the two of you recommend to the audience for studying guidance, whether historical or present . Who comes to mind for you, doc . Now 62 he committed suicide he jumped off the top of the building because he felt black folks in turn their backs on him. But his life is exemplary and professor kendricks carries the book and allows him to become much more visible. As he has. [inaudible] through a comment like that when stand like that we can go to the next one is that okay . [laughter] thats true. Thats a good jumping out point. From lawrence how do we manipulate radical discourses in the motion . I think we have to how can i put this is going to sound a bit too abstract. But i think we have to figure out how to be together differently under these contemporary material conditions, right . So how do we resist the way in which neoliberalism reduces us to being individuals in pursuit of our own self interest in competition and rivalry with other individuals in pursuit of their own self interest . And because we are individuals in pursuit of our own self interest competition and rivalry are the basic values that define that. It eviscerates any notion of the public good. This is why folks cant understand why they cannot wear masks. Right . They have no conception of what a robust understanding of standing in relation with others in genuine community. So part of what we have to do it seems to me is figure out how to build relationships with one another. Right . But in some ways holds off that model, that way of being in the world. Build communities of love that allow you to laugh belly laughs. Those folk who will enable you to reach for a different way of being in the world, right . I dont want to sound like i am talking about mcintyre creating this little pockets. But i am saying how we forge relationships with one another becomes an active political gesture in this moment it seems to me. Does that make sense . And the joy you have in those relationships has to be deeper than the pleasure you get the corners of the world. And of the community. Joy is quality difference black people are a soulful people because we are a joyful point you cant be soulful if your whole life is about pleasure. There is joy in pain it aint pleasure in Something Else [insert tradition we come from. With a deeper spiritual and moral level. And we have to be honest. We have to realize all of us especially those in the black middle class or already commodified in one way or another. That has to be the object of her critical reflections. Like noname in the street i know i am the great white hope for the liberal establishment. I want to talk about that. I want to be that hope for them. Is just kowtowing to black folk hes got something inside him called a calling not just a career priest got something inside of him caused a cause not a brain. Everybody cant wait, theyre missing the point. Thats a key moment something something just and right. [laughter] [laughter] something something just aint right. Company walter raisin in the sun right . About freedom. Now all were talking about is money. What did jimmy say . The difference between. [inaudible] [laughter] right there thats from chicago. Look in those eyes and with this it about that . She said she understood the difference between keeping the faith and making it. Everys buddies gotten some sense make it because you gotta get cash you dont live by bread alone. Youve got to keep the faith. Whatever faith it is. Whatever faith it is. This got to be a faith bigger than your ego, bigger than your career bigger than your next pr move. You got some something inside of you. He got something inside of him that he had before he set eyes on. Integrity and empathy. Im going to give him some credit here. [laughter] [laughter] im going to ask the little followup because this moment is particularly unusual. We are asking for deep useful connection and a moment where we are not safe with active close physical intimacy because of the pandemic. How do we build real closeness in the digital era . When we are stuck in platforms that are digital. Vast forms of relationships that would make a person otherwise. That is a hard question. That is a profound question. [laughter] [inaudible] so that is a hard question. Im thinking about joe lisa, paul taylors wife. She lost her mama to covid19. She could not go home to say goodbye to her. Could not send her home. Because she was worried about coronavirus and her children. And you think about marsalis and his daddy. As complicated as that is very. Brother alice, brother alice we love him. They could not do it for him in new orleans can you imagine that . They could not send him home, right . There are ways in which this current pandemic has interrupted touch. Has given grief a different sor sort, it gives an because grief now comes with the regret. Grief and regret is dangerous, right . Mama i wish i couldve said to you i was sorry before you went away. Wish i could have resolved x, y, z. So thats happening alongside the fact we are sheltering in place. Many of us are we cant touch, we can engage, but think in the midst of this im trying to get to an answer to your question. In the midst of this we have to find ways of being together. So i am in a Reading Group with dock. So we have a good time to. [laughter] all this stuff you and i dont even have time to blank. But we sit in here reading. And for every two weeks we get on zoom and for two hours with our close partners, paul taylor, charles peterson, charles mckinney, we just talking about the book. There might be a little liquor flowing. But the point is we are trying to figure out how to maintain each others soul. How to be not a crutch but a shoulder. In the midst of this. After be in the end of this how are trying to stand and write relations with each other under these conditions, what will it look like what we get on the other side of this . It might just be even deeper if that makes sense. So i certainly hope so i think thats a real possibility of taking time for one another. And theres the cold trait love supreme. The resolve ourselves. Resolve ourselves, nothing will get in the way of our love of each other. Thank you. So peoples whose child good have been born in virginia and couldve got sold to houston texas. Never forgot about that precious little black baby. As soon as you get free you got to walk from virginia to texas you going to get that precious little girl. So thats right. Resolve that nothing will get in the way of the love that we have for the people. So thats right. Whatever it takes you got to be improvisation youve got to be flexible. But what ever it takes. I think that is part again of the Great Condition that we dial up. Very much so, very much so. [inaudible] im been it for 30 years. [laughter] [laughter] ive been waiting in my life to be in conversations like these. Im hoping i came prepared. Im pleased to talk to you and great for you empathy, patience and the time youre giving to us. I think it transitions into this question. How do we raise our black children . I havent been a child for a long time but i was raised by black people to prepare for all of our souls and intellect. There is a question here about how we raise our black children. How do i feel raising my black children . How do we have our own radicalized trauma will trying to give enough for children to not get burnt in the white street. Yeah. Theres a wonderful moment and uses of the blues. For Jimmy Jackson certain description of the negro problem. He says i dont know people mean by the negro problem. What we mean what the world is saying about these children back taking root in them. Trying to keep whatever the world is saying them for taking root in their spirit and souls. Now the interesting thing about it is we have to be honest with us. I have to be honest with myself that my own trauma, my own wounds showed up and how i try to raise my babies. Because you know there are generational baggage. You bring it to the moment. You love the best way you can. Thats right. So as vulnerable and is whoevers fault it may be you love the best way you can. Also fortifies and that love crazy as he may be. As broken as he seems. That negro loves me to it death. They can come out of there, if they can come out of there with that sense of love and they have the armor. That black love is Something Else. They have the armor to deal with the world. Weve got to keep the world from taking, those from taking root from settling in their spirit. That is an ongoing battle this that make sense . That is so powerful though. It is so true one of the great moments next time is to the nephew says dont be afraid. Everybodys got the negro is not afraid. Civic thats right. Martin luther king junior said it rather be dead than afraid bates i tell my son, my dear beloved son and my daughters my precious ones i say you are so precious and priceless the world may not understand that. But dont you ever be afraid to take a stand for something righ right. Its the best of who you are, the best of whats in your mama, your daddy, your grandparents. Its the best of not done but the worse. Hold off from my son thats what you stand for. Dont be afraid. Dont you ever sell out. Dont you ever cave in dont you ever give up. That is exactly what they did. I believe brownies steeled him self is not afraid you got brothers and sisters who love us. You are vanilla as the stereotypical norwegian. [laughter] you keep the love flowing is real. [laughter] with Indigenous People thats the love they try to tell you us about. Just going back to letter to my nephew i reach back and grab its right there. Gotta get close. He said to be loved hard and forever. To strengthen you against the loveless world. Thats what sets that. Your love is too hot no, no, no, remember that i know how black it looks today for you look black that day to we were traveling we have not stopped traveling but if we had not loved each other not of us would have survived. And now you must survive because we love you and for the sake of your children and your childrens children. That is what we talk about. Tony just takes it all. [laughter] you know what im talking about. Keep in mind this is not love of black abstract. Love of black people individually. The ones that will cuss you out, the ones will tell you off they are worthy of being loved. You will love them because they want to love you back. Theres no popularity contest. I was a person found deep profound love of black people there crucified by black people. Everyone. So thats right. Thats true perspective from milestone, to ella baker to selma they kept loving anyway because their love was that kind of love it was not man be pam be queer pro crow arch, i love you you love me. Can you imagine thats what theyre saying . Right. Right. So lord have mercy. Thank you for that robust and joyous answer to the question. As part of an idea of forgiveness. James baldwin had hated his father for reasons that people hate their parents and then he chose to let go of that. Because of something you point out in your book. You say what is it okay will anyway he had let go of the hatred be because he needed to. And also because in that he gives the children the ability to feel the pain and move through it and then accept their parents as real fallible human beings who dilute deserve that that kind of love. I think the gift of having a parent who is an adult and loves you as an adult. We can learn to parent over the truth too. Thank you for that. Okay one more . One more question . So sure. Sure. This is from. [inaudible] what you think baldwin would have two offer black organizers who see we had to have a militarized Police Department and proud to violence . [inaudible] that is an interesting question. And i would not dare to try to suggest that i would be able to anticipate baldwins words in this moment. I would direct you to the records. To search within his corporate because i think he has language for us to speak to the moment. And, you know he said they asked him this question esquire 1968. And said what would you say to the folks who are out in the street . And he said well, i would not tell them not to get their guns. I will would paraphrase i would not tell them not to fight and defend themselves. And ive safe them and im paraphrasing if youre going to kill that white men if youre going to blow his brains out if your going to shoot him which it may come to be said, dont hate him. Because the hatred will corrode the soul, you know . Because at the heart of jimmys project is a moral concern about who we take ourselves to be . Who do we aspire to be . How do we not allow the ugliness of the world to just form and disfigure. As we engage in this arduous task of self creation. Under these captive conditions. What would he say . Fight. Fight till your last breath. Because thats what he said. But dont do it do in the name of love not in the name of hate. So thats right, thats right. That is eloquent that his wisdom. Speak it my brother. Speak it. Even though she never speak for brother hewitt to the heart of the american apartheid, u. S. Slavery, jim crow and james grow. Thats what he is up against. He got off that plate in that bus and he walked into this militarized zone. Vicious attacks and what have you. The first thing he asks is how is it that black folk are able to keep their souls intact . Its a moral and a spiritual question for didnt have a lot of political power economic power they had a richness they had a tremendous breath of something cultural, moral, spiritual that actually made them morally superior than the white supremacist. Not because they were born that way. Because the tradition under tremendous blood sweat and tears had produced them that way. That blew his mind. The black version of urbanist aegean harlem is definitely that of mississippi. We all knew we were all africans that weve got different circumstances. His feet are walking in a whole lot of other things were going on there. So it blew his mind to encounter such a great people spiritually and morally. That is the standards we have to keep as we move into a 21st century. Its very difficult standard. We ask have moral decline because of commercialization and because the White Supremacy. It so easy to get inside we dont extricated as it were. As long as we do this in the name of love were whiteness are white people are not the point of reference. If you are so upset with hating what both theyre still your point of reference for you are in a world of trouble. If you are loving white folks and not black folks your sick and pathological. [laughter] [laughter] real talk. Thats to demilitarized yourself by means of access to tradition but thats what our churches ought to be doing. Thats what her synagogues and our mosques ought to be doing. You see what i mean . This is loves you never get negative rise in such a way youre part of a true to tradition. Alright let us end there. Going to bring up the name of a great poet Jericho Brown directly in response to baldwin and said once again on love and end there. For the last question here spoke about just spoke to the notion of radical and how shape the movement. We began and we end there. So thank you both so much to speak with this. Thank you for joining us in haymarket reading i hope we see you with the next one. Thank you. Thank you. Love you guys thank you. Lord have mercy what a love warrior you are. We are going to be faithful. If made a covenant working to go down swinging. Ill go down before him ill go down the smile on my face because i will continue on. [laughter] during the dance brother love you to death my brother. So here is a look at some Publishing Industry news author and Foreign Correspondent Christopher Dickey died last week at the age of 68. He was the author of seven books including a memoir of his relationship with his father former poor louis james dickey who authored the bestselling novel, deliverance. Joanna cole author of the childrens education series the Magic School Bus also died earlier this month. She created the series in 1986 which followed a group of schoolchildren on fantastical trips led by their teacher ms. Frizzled great the books were developed into an animated Television Program that aired on pbs for 18 years. Joanna cole died at the age of 75. In other news, lisa lucas has been named the new publisher of shock and part of the penguin reading house group. Lucas had been the director of the National Book foundation for the past four years. Also in the news npd bookscan provided a list of the bestselling print books for the first half of the year. Six of the top ten are nonfiction titles including john boltons memoir of his time in the trump administration. Robin dangelo and abram candies books on race in america and eric larsons recount of wentzel budget Winston Churchills leadership during the london blitz. Berntson noble renovated three under 50 other stores in the time theyre closer to the coronavirus pandemic. The bookstore chain focused on reorganizing the departments providing greater selection and making the stores and brighter. Book tv will continue to bring you new programs and publishing news. You could also watch all of our archived programs any time booktv. Org. At the Ronald Reagan president ial library in cini valley california, u. S. News World Reports looked at how different president s have handled crisis. In this portion of the program he discusses how fdr used optimism to reassure the american public. One thing roosevelt did in addition to the standards im talking about, he actually persevered in a specific way and that is reflecting optimism. That is what he is known for. Every president since roosevelt has adopted this technique including president reagan by the way who admired president roosevelt all his life. He had been a democrat and we became a republican course, reagan did. But particularly because of this optimism he could convey to the country. This is a picture of Franklin Roosevelt giving a fireside chat. This is what he did use the media of his time, radio, which basically every american could have access to with the radio or the neighbors or whatever and he scheduled what he called fire side chats. Talking directly to the country about the depression the problems were having, what he was doing. This was a particular example of him talking about banks and he had a very clever way of doing what he was doing, having the federal Government Act to improve the economy instead of talking about shutting down banks and making sure banks were solvent by terminating their operation to called it a bank holiday. It was pretty clever term. So much later and nonthreatening idea. He was closing banks. So he went out and give the fireside chat, did that throughout his administration. You could walk to the city or the talent or ham lunch or run the country and if people had their windows open you can hear Franklin Roosevelts words because he had such incredible Market Penetration as they call it now or people wanted to listen to the president. And you could hear him really just about wherever you went. It was a tremendously effective thing he did with these fireside chats. This is an example of roosevelt optimism. The positive present so many people of certain age remember. talks about her life and writing career, she appeared on our program in depth in novembe. Jody pico you suggest that Justice Kavanaugh should read your newest book, a spark of life, why is that . I think its one of the most valid looks of abortion rights and womens reproductive rights that i found, i worked really hard to make a balanced and i think it would allow him to see other peoples point of v o