Transcripts For CSPAN2 Hearing On Mortgage Relief During The Coronavirus Pandemic 20240712

Meeting to order at this time and i would like to, if i may, give just a brief overview of what you can expect. We called the meeting to order that would have been an Opening Statement of the chair and Ranking Member, Opening Statements from chairwoman waters and are witnesses will give their Opening Statement and then we will have q and a of witnesses and adjournments. The title of todays hearing is protecting homeowners during the pandemic oversight of Mortgage Services implementations of the cares act. Without objection the cares authorized to declare a recess of the subcommittee at any time. Also without objection members of the committee who are not members of the subcommittee may participate in todays hearing for the purposes of making an Opening Statement and asking questions of witnesses. Members are reminded to keep their video function on at all times, even when they are not recognized by the chair. Members also are reminded that they are responsible for muting and on meeting themselves. I think this is something that is where they are a repeating because i made the mistake of not honoring this responsibility. I hope ins do not make that mistake today. Members are also reminded that they are responsible for muting and on meeting themselves. And to commute themselves after they finish speaking. Consistent with the regulations of comp being mean as rach 975 they will mute members and witnesses as appropriate only when they had not beckoned recognized and to avoid inadvertent background noise. Members arere minded that all house rules relating to order and decorum apply for this remote hearing. The chair now recognizes himself for four minutesth for an openig statements. Let me start by thinking the chairwoman of the full committee and its always an honor to serve under your leadership, madam chair butam i like to thak the Ranking Member for your participation that he is brought to this hearing. I would also like to thank the staff for the hard work that youve done done in obtaining some 4000 pages of servicer documents. This would include a policies features, data on the largest 11 services and their findings that include the fact that over 2 million forbearance requests have been approved by these 11 servicers. This was done between march 27 and june 30 of 2020. We have also found some other things that are causing a bit of consternation. Often servicers failed to provide the borrowers with the 108 day forbearance that has then set in the cares act. Too often borrowers were given 90 days. I have some evidence of this failure to comply that i shall show her with you. This evidence is something that emanates from a request by a constituent. One of my constituents has brought to the attention of our office this document that is styled temporary hardship forbearance plan agreement. I wont go through it in its entirety but thehe important points are these. This borrower faced a hardship and had payments deferred for three of the payments that are due, three payments. The amount due is going to be in the final analysis in the deferment time amounted to all payments within that deferment time and any late fees that may have accrued from other sources of payments not being made timely. The point is this, p as it reads on this document, the amount due on the next payment due date which was three months away from the date that the deferment time started, includes the amount of payment being deferred under the plan. This is 90 days of deferment and it is not the anticipated 180 days that thehe cares act affors borrowers. In fact, many of the borrowers are not made aware of this and we find pursuant to some of the testimony you will hear today that many of these borrowers who are accorded this 90 day time, as opposed to the 180 days, are borrowers of color. It seems that this is like many other things having a osproportionate impact on persons of color which causes me a good deal of consternation, i might add. I would also say this, this program that we established in congress has been received by the persons who are charged with according to these forbearance agreements and the servicers and it is been received by them as an honor system but we never for this to be an honor system that would allow them to decide whether or not they would do 180 days initially and the opportunities to extend for an additional 180degree peers it was my intent that borrowers would acquire the 180 days and then they could opt to have an additional 180 days. The remedy seems to be that of having to dial a lawsuit, litigation, have to hire a lawyer and take this to courts. They have to have some period of time that might go beyond the period of time, quite frankly, that you have your forbearance. Im very much concerned about this and my hope is that we could get the means by which we could deal with this honor system and bring this under the auspices of a situation such as they will have to comply as opposed to choose whether or not they will comply. With this having been said, it is my honor now to recognize the Ranking Member of the subcommittee for a fiveminute Opening Statement. Ranking member, you are not recognized for your fiveminute Opening Statement. Thank you, chairman green. Good to see you and all our colleagues and witnesses. Thank you again for joining us rivirtually for todays hearing. The coronavirus pandemic and associated government imposed shutdown of the economy disruptedte the lives and livelihood of citizens across our country and businesses shut down, an employment skyrocketed, workers remain employed face uncertain prospects for theirrt longterm stability. Families were at risk of losing their homes. As you all know Congress Passed in the president signed into law the cares act which helped individuals and Small Businesses and created forbearance options for struggling homeowners. At the peak approximately 4. 7 million families were in forbearance. Many more families were undoubtedly lost their homes and struggled to make payments. If not for the swift and decisive acts from congress and the administration. The implementation of the paycheck protection program, Economic Impact payments, Federal Reserve Lending Facility under 133 which opened credit markets and other assistance programs under the cares act made it easier for homeowners to pay their mortgages, families to stay in their homes and Small Businesses to build a bridge for the other side of the crisis. Ee fortunately, we have seen the number of mortgages in forbearance increase since the peak declining a full 13 since may. However, we are not out of the woods yet. There areac still lands of homeowners facing hardship and requiring additionalqu assistan. I hope to learn from our Witnesses Today and what may be helpfulgr next step as congress contemplates additional legislation for the farreaching aid to america in homeowners with the collaborative effort between congress, administration, regulars and the private sector. It is important to note that while the cares act mandates that servicers are federally backed mortgages offer forbearance options to borrowers that same requirement is not in place for loans held in the portfolio or privatelabel security. Despite theel absence of this mandate services of these non federally backed loans stepped up during this crisis and similar forbearance terms would have mandated under cares. This shows that in times of crisis the government and private sector can Work Together in the private sector has acted responsibly in the interest of homeowners without having government mandates imposed on them. Unfortunately, my colleagues on the other side of the aisle believe that a topdown mandate on all servicers will be more effective. The partisan heroes act included a mandates for automatic forbearance for all borrowers struggling to pay their mortgages and not only does this mandate appear unnecessary given the Market Dynamics we have seen to date but it actually has the potential to further disadvantage borrowers by limiting their options. On may 4, chairwoman waters and chairman greene sent letters to some of the largest Mortgage Servicers requesting information about their interaction with customers following the passage of the cares act. The location of the letter was that Mortgage Servicers skirted the response abilities under the cares act that somehow profited for steering their customers into forbearance but not in the best interest of the borrowers. The date of the majority received in response to their letter told a very different story. They demonstrated that servicers are working well with borrowers in their times of greatest need. This hearing, this is a hearing in search of a problem. That is not to say there were not some hiccups along the way but there were understandable growing pains and bumps in the road as services staffed up call centers, updated websites and implement a new technology to help their customers could however, the scope and scale of the forbearance request and the short timeframe to make new processes the servicers overall be commended on their treatment of borrowers in a time of crisis. I think the creditors the more creditors and servicers they have learnedse from experience that the expanse of foreclosure and repossessing the properties is not in anyones bestot interest. Keeping homeowners in their homes in and the best interest of all involved particularly those early americans who need help. I look forward to further explain how Services Work with their customers and efficacy of the cares act provision and keeping families in their homes and whatna additional actions my be required by congress and potential areas of improvement in the service or barware relationships and again, i think all of you for being here today and thank chairman greene again and chairwoman watersah for holding this hearing. She hast to unmute. You are still on mute, madam chair. Alright, you can hear me now. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, i am so appreciative of you holding this hearing and as i took my seat i heard you read something where there appears to be a demand from a servicer that was a demand for what would be considered a full payment for the months that have been miss missed. Is that true, mr. Chairman . May i make sure i have that correct . I guess the chairman is not hearing me. Can you hear me . We can hear you but he is muted. I am unneeded now, i believe. Can you hear me . Now i can hear you but i just wanted to make sure that what i heard you saying was that someone had been remanded to pay the amount of the missed paymen three months of forbearance and would be paid upon the end of the three month time. I wanted a to make sure i got the information correct. Thank you. As a matter of fact i have to say to mr. Barr the experience we had started in 2004 with the foreclosures that took place with the Exotic Products placed on the market and with all we experienced by this disaster in our communitiesnc because of the unprecedented foreclosures leads us to understand what we must do for homeowners losing their homes and so i understand it but mr. Chairman, i want to thank you for the hearing and i am absolutely committed to the proposition that this will not happen. We will have a credible forbearance situation where our homeowners will not cause them to lose their homes. I yield back the balance of my time. The chairwoman yields back. At this time i would like to introduce our witnesses and thank them for coming and being a part of this hearing. We have with us today elise cohen, staff attorney for the National Consumer law center. Marcio griffin, president of home free usa. Darnell williams, president of National Association of Real Estate Brokers. Ed demarco, president of the policy council but welcome again and thank you for being with us virtually. The witnesses will be recognized for five minutes to give an oral presentation if we would be a chime will go off at the end of your time and i will ask that you respect the members as other witnesses time by wrapping up your oral testimony. Without objection the witnesses written statements will be made a part of the record. Avce the witnesses finish their testimony each member will have five minutes to ask questions. With that, miss you are not recognized for five minutes for your Opening Statement. Thank you very much, chairman greene, Ranking Member and members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. I testify on behalf of the low income compliance of the National Consumer law center as well as 20 other Consumer Legal Services and civil rights organizations. The unprecedented coronavirus pandemic has brought illness, death, on appointments and greater economic and security to people across the country. Communities of color, particularly black and people have been hard hit. The qualities are activated by the Current Crisis and black and latin x homeownership is in peril. To mitigate some of the horror wrought by the Pandemic Congress must continue its vigilance in protecting homeowners, improve transparency for housing relief programs, increase its efforts to regulate and reform the Mortgage Servicing industry and send relief for black and latin x homeowners. The federal regulators must act as well to prevent avoidable foreclosures and promote sustainable homeownership. Congress must pursue dedicated efforts to protect and expand black and latin x homeownership and pass additional measures, including election of loans level borrower, Loan Performance and loss mitigation data with public reporting and representative porters bill hr 6835 is a good start on this. Expansion of cares act protection must include, standardize forbearance for all mortgages, automatic forbearance for borrowers who have missed two payments or more, affordable repayment options for borrowers exiting forbearance plans, seeking to resolve delinquencies that are available prior to foreclosure and written notice and in language information for limited borrowers in a moratorium on negative credit reporting and targeted support are the hardest hit communities including funding for legal services, housing counseling and cash assistance for delinquent borrowers and measures to preventsu neighborhood flight. Moreover, federal regulators must increase oversight ensure mortgage assistance meets the needs of Diverse Communities of homeowners to prove regulation, including rules that leave homeowners at risk and consider future reforms in a Mortgage Servicing industry to rely on incentives with those homeowners and investors. We commend the regulatory extension of the foreclosure moratoria and the recent announcement to t advance loss mitigation options in close forbearance options. And more is needed. Black and latin x homeowners are more than likely now to struggle paying the mortgage because assistance from their servicer ild missed payments instead of forbearance. While all homeowners are more likely to report missing payments rather thanra deferring payments and the census bureaus household poll survey at the end of june 4 times as many black homeowners reported missing payments as compared to deferring payments. Among hispanic or latino homeowners and homeowners who identify asd other were reported two or more races were two times as many homeowners reporting they missed payments compared to deferring. Only 1. 4 times as many white homeowners report missing rather than deferring payments. How can we helpep homeowners who not yet received assistance and what can we donc with a disproportionately large group of borrowers of color facing this challenge . While we focus on efforts to contain the fallout from the pandemic we should not lose sight of the fact that for many distressed borrowers the Mortgage Servicing industry remains fundamentally broken and our ability to prevent another great loss of homeownership with black and latin x families dependo on our ability to have Service Received that performing servicing well is within their interest as well as the interest of financially distressed homeowners and their communities and the economy. Our nation is facing unprecedented challenges that present us with the real challenge to looklo at our priorities and assumptions and make material progress in how we measure success and inclusion. Thank you. Thank you for your testimony ms. Cohen. Ms. Griffin youre not wrecking eyes for five minutes for an Opening Statement. Thank you very t much. My name is Marcio Griffin and im president and founder of home free usa, nationwide housing Counseling Organization and i appreciate this opportunity to appear before you to provides insight surrounding the plight of homeowners in this pandemic. Allow me to emphasize the importance of housingng counselg organizations which i would like to call nonprofit homeownership providers. Housing Counseling Organizations like homeport usa our Mission Based entities created to provide everyday people with the tools they need to achieve and sustain their housing and homeownership goals. We help renters to become sustainable homeowners and help existing homeowners avoid Mortgage Delinquency and foreclosure. Its somewhatn like marriage counselors but when a homeowner has unanswered questions, needs credit help, doesnt know what to do, doesnt understand the services and jargon we bring them together with lenders and servicers to ensure that everyone is on the same page with the goal, of course, finding a mortgage solution that works for both parties. According to the u. S. Congress a Economic Committee the average foreclosure cost everyone 177,934 dollars. Lenders lose an average of between 12 and 90 of the value in foreclosure and spend about 50000 in the process. If counselors are able to prevent foreclosure the value to lenders, investors and the country is enormous. What have we s seen in the markt today . Da the homeowners are exhausted, paralyzed by fear and covid sick and have lost their jobs. Everyone is concerned that they will lose their home. First, iny my work at home free usa with my colleagues at the National Housing Resource Center we do believe services have improved since the start of this pandemic but many still need better trained customer facing employees. G some Call Center Employees say they are not familiar with, dont have time to answer questions and are just not familiar enough with the process or procedures to assist consumers. Second, counselors assist homeowners who are improperly denied a forbearance. We have seen a troubling concentration of this issue with veteran loans and we are also seen homeowners who may recently have completed a loan application and they have also been denied and borrowers whoed have just missed a payment in march of february and also have been denied. Furthermore, we help homeowners who have requested a forbearance but still have questions about whether it has been approved and how to plan ahead for repayment. There is a frustratingly large number of homeowners who are unemployed but still being told that Lump Sum Payments are due o at the end of the forbearance. Other reoccurring issues are highlighted in my written testimony, whether right or wrong, too many clients are unfamiliar with the terms the servicer and this only compounds the existing sense of distrust and fear of the industry and people of color are particularly vulnerable to this sense of distrust of lenders and services as a result of their most recent experience in the last housing crisis. People of color rely heavily on organization like home free usa to advocate for them. What can be done . First, services do not have the capacity to handle individualized reports of vulnerable homeowners but it is essential that house counselors are supported so that we do not have to turn away a single consumer. It frees up services because we can handle the most challenging cases. Second, we feel that cfp d, f hfa and hud should be more solution focused and proactive in their monitoring of repayment issues but we feel the federal agencies should coordinate and should identify Realtime Solutions and actively update policies and procedures. Third, we need a streamlined mloss mitigation loan procedure like we had with help. The biggest problem we have will be homeowners will return to work but have significantly reduced incomes that would be a need for aggressive and affordable Loan Modifications and housing counselors are capable of helping homeowners and servicers who through these completed process. Last, more outreach is needed. Consumer awareness of options and processes need to be better just to beaded. I very much appreciate this opportunity to illuminate our concerns about covid related Mortgage Servicing. The importance of housing counseling intervention and to sound thehe alarm that the worst is yet to come. Counseling organizations play a huge role expect the lady will have to wrap up her testimony please. You have exceeded your time. Thank you. And q for your testimony. Ms. Williams is now recognized for five minutes for an Opening Statements. You may have to unmute. I apologize. Quite all right, continue please. Chairman green, rankingma member barr, chairwoman waters and distinguished members of the committee thank you the opportunity to testify todayop o discuss the importance of protecting homeowners, especially during these difficult times. I also want to thank chairwoman Maxine Waters for calling this meeting. Is Donell Williams and i serve as the president of the National Association of Real Estate Brokers for the countrys oldest and largest black real estate trade association. Founded in 1947, our Mission Democracy and housing has guided our efforts to ensure fair housing practices in neighborhoods across the country. Especially in communities of color. I am also the owner of destiny reality, a Brokerage Firm headquartered in morristown, new jersey. Covid19 has disproportionately affecting black homeowners. It is well documented that covid19 has had a crushing and devastating effect on blackom homeowners and caused mass unemployment creating a deep economic strain on black borrowers who have worked hard to achieve the American Dream of home ownership. As of mid june 2020, 24 of black homeowners reported some difficulty making their mortgage payments. This was compared to white homeowners. There is a 13 gap between black homeowners and white homeowners receiving forbearance under section 4022 of the cares act which allows borrowers to apply for a forbearance time of up to 360 days. Solution, in order to address the challenging or challenges facing black homeowners as a result of the pandemic it is imperative that Congress Take action to ensure the congressional governmental efforts to maintain homeowners that is equitable and include black homeowners. We urge congress to take the following actions allocate specific funds targeted to the p. Black homeownership. Two, provide assistance for mortgage borrowers, not coverage by the cares act, private mortgage lenders must be required to have government forbearance to their borrowers. Comparable to the treatment of government supported mortgage levels. Number three, require fha and all services to notify borrowers in all communications, including mail, electronic medication and phone calls of their rights to apply for forbearance. Require all servicers to have dedicated tollfree lines. Staff with representatives who are knowledgeable about their forbearance procedures. Number four, create a large scale Public Awareness initiative. Erfederal government is allocatg resources to building Public Awareness around the Health Risks Associated with covid19 and similar efforts to be made to inform borrowers of their rights. Number five, in short fha borrowers continue to have the same access to mortgage forbearance protections with Financial Relief and assistance. These inclusions, National Association of Real Estate Brokers, whose members are known as [inaudible] and since its inception has stood for democracy and housing and we have authority for the guardians of the communities we serve. We will continue to advocate for the preservation and sustainability of homeownership for black americans and all americans. The realtors organization ought to be trusted advisors of our community and the conscience of the real estate industry. Congress [inaudible] declaration of a season insist on the decline of black homeownership. Thank you for the opportunity to testify before the committee today and i will be glad to answer any questions. Thank you. Thank you for your testimony, mr. Williams. Mr. Dimarco you are not wrecking eyes for five minutes for your Opening Statements. Opening statement. Chairman green, Ranking Member barr, chairwoman waters and members of the subcommittee, thank you for inviting me to testify on a Mortgage Servicers are responding to the challenges facing homeowners because of the Donnell Williams from the pandemic and also while anyone voter in the vulnerable to the fires, has disproportionately affected the economic cost, of those of color low income households. This emergency, councilmembers and others have been committed to keeping individual borrowers, in the home spring written statement which i will briefly summarize. First the challenges facing homeowners today are not the result of poor underwriting standards are inappropriate business practices. This pandemic the national postcrisis. The steps taken to combat it, have enormous cons was his. In the response, the members and other have shifted virtually all their operations and Office Buildings to their own homes. In training their staff, modified technology to manage enormous info of borrow worse inquiries and set up online tools. This is for education. Began offering homeowners raised options. And the extended homeowners, they do not have federally backed mortgages. And this is an evolving series announcements and programs and agencies. Just two months t since the cars act, nearly 4. 8 million households on a forbearance plan. 13 percent decline since according to one full, total. 3 percent of fha and va loans were in forbearance. And others were in forbearance as well. Services of these homes, are required by the cares act to offer forbearance to customer was asked for it claiming a covid19 Economic Hardship. In the non federally back, 9. 6 percent also waived forbearance by late may. These includes loans, their indication the banks of hundred lenders and other investors who have also founded without a for federal directive. And even greater rate the gop mode. And i want to acknowledge the rtpartnerships and information sharing this mark for the last four months. Not only is industry been trying to Work Together to develop the best practices, with the majority partnerships with numerous other organizations as well as numerous government agencies. These partnerships have common concern for the families whose financial situations and be distributed and National Health emergency. I believe it is because of the communications andic coordinatin the relief has been provided to so many so quickly. And transitioning for forbearance to longer translations are quite dedicated efforts from the borrower and services to ensure that the center borrow begins repaying the mortgage from the store he or she resumes this opportunity to homeownership provides. When the borrower is ready to resume the monthly payments,ly they contact the servicer to achieve the transition and mature their sectioning regarding repayments of forewarned about. The options available depends on several factors. Generally, washington includes a shortterm repayment plan, at the end of the long term, or longerterm payment by adding the Outstanding Payment into the loan balance and on applying loans. With forbearance, congress is already taking the cornerstone action for the borrowers and services who recognize that the panic is effective many consumers and communities. With some of the beneficial stimulus provided by the ersatz is coming to an end. And we support an additional members by the congress to provide fiscal stimulus to the consumers in the communities. Thank you for inviting me to participate today. Thank you for your testimony mr. Demarco. I now recognize the gentleman from california cried for five minutes for questions. Thank you very much chairman frank. I know of the work i work with them over the years and they have been counseling and helping the homeowners and im very pleased that theyre all here this morning. Heres what i would like to do. I would like to find out i would like to ask each a of them in te time that i have whether or not the language in the euros act is doing exactly we needed to do. We know that we have provided to receive forbearance for ourei homeowners. With the option to expand an additional six months. And there is information that homeowners. [inaudible]. Make sure thatto they have this information. I would also like to know that should there be additional language about the loan modification. The main ask each person. [inaudible]. Thank you. Wonderful, thank you. Under these organizations, they definitely support the heroes act. This is great progress. It also really helps to sort of rain in the issues that we are saying the private non federal loans. We are very appreciative of the suggestion of support. Supplemental support for housing and counseling. Needed. Ry much the focus on repayments and forbearances is good. We should certainly continue. We have spoken about argues on the heroes act also in our written testimony. Do you think that we need additional information. Thank you for your question and being at the hearing today. Your question so that is focusing on the forbearance. [silence]. Legislation and programming to help people get into repayment. The financials situations country goes o u[silence]. [silence]. [silence]. Come to the realtors organization and it does come through the mail that would be great, through email or what have you got we also need to data collection. Servicers need to supply information to us the cfpb. I just had a borrower in new jersey, another one in morris township new jersey tell me their [silence]. E should have some pes for servicers who violate the law that we have in the heroes act and require lumpsum payments like that . I do believe so because they are road blocking, clogging it up so we cant have progress. I thank you for your testimony here today and thank you mr. Green. I yield back the balance of my time. The gentlelady yields back. The Ranking Member mr. Barr is recognized for five minutes for questions. Thank you, mr. Chairman, and thank you to all of our witnesses for your testimony. Obviously very powerful testimony about the vulnerability of homeowners at this time and mages offer one comment or observation about the testimony of all of our witnesses. It just speaks to the [silence]. So that they can provide for the families and meet those payment obligations. Let me start with a question for dr. Demarco about the nonfederally backed mortgages and i think your testimony was that for those nongovernment start latest offer one observation period about the testimony of old witnesses barely to speak to the merry importance and the need to avoid ndrn in a house on the economy and produce hygiene practice hygiene. The general of the things to prevent the spread hires of the virus call. Click polite or jiggly formal minorities. Test based on the testimony so many. [silence]. Doctor demarco, how would you propose the sections on the heroes act impact the servicers ability to work with the customer would actually help or hurt. And in the answer the question would you talk about importance of communication and borrowers. That was actually ryans going. And i understand the intention in creating offer automatic marrows opportunity for the orrrowers. Actually comes the work that the congress did. But as part of the development, and showing the practices of the great recession. That is the timely communication between the servicer and the customer if they are having problems paying the mortgage read servicers should be in contact with the customers. And want to understand what is the customer situation so that they can anytime away deliver an riappropriate support or opportunity to put that homeowner back in the feet. For example, the homeowner may have missed offensive payments. And having nothing with the economic destruction due to the pandemic of for some other reason. So the servicer was to get in touch with the homeowner. And find that recent and get thatat to that homeowners particular problem. Thats what we would suggest, with the idea of making sure that the servicer and staying in contact with the customer and the customer staying in contact with the servicer. That will have a better outcome for the very situations that we will see here. My time is almost expired. I think it is important to realize that different people face different difficulties. We can get folks into repayment quicker, we should we do that and finally, the letter what we did in the care sector how much forbearance we have. How much forbearance is a a lot of these. Nothing can replace evil getting back to work and kids get back to school did. Gentlemens time has expired in the chair now recognizes mature woman in the seventh kemeny on the conclusion. Pages much and can you hear me. I can. Insertiocertainly my honor tn this committee and thank you. Uncertainly are chairwoman of the Financial Service committee. Congresswoman waters is to our Ranking Member is pretty first let me thank all of the witnesses. Thank you for your time. And for your testimony. My first question, i will try to get through several questions. So i will put my had a new move on. It just because of the time. The question is for you. As you know the cares act is very explicit about what the congress intended for the homeowners with forbearance. Another expressing financial hard times due to covid19, 180 days forbearance with the possibility of an extension for another 180 days. Despite this, i have gotten calls, dozens of calls and they are confused about what the law said and put my constituents and since were offering that way. As you know, we pass the cares act on march 27th. Can you tell me despite that confusion going on in the marketplace that we all know about, and where was the cft who has oversight of the Mortgage Services industry and why did it take us until june for this to happen. Thank you for your question. One terms of the complaint that you are hearing, the federal regulators really need to step up their game rated do much greater oversight. As a servicers, they spent most of the time relaxing regulations to further serve in providing advice for homeowners. The homeowners did the production. Do you think they should have been doing more. People are still hurting. They have oversight. Yes ore no. Yes they should do more. Starting with making sure the people dont face foreclosure. They can let me yvonne. To the next question. Mr. Demarco. This question is for you. Earlier, trump financial regulators quietly shall discrimination probes into bank of american. At the office of the currency, at least six investigation into discriminatory mortgages. The redlining against the recommendations of their own her staff. This is the same time an agency that was to working to undermine and water down to cra at which they were supposed to protect against the type of discriminatory lending. In this article, the occ and seen patterns against africanamericans ander latinos. In several running institutions in several areas around the country. Also listed a lot of other things that were job. Mr. Demarco, many of the lending institutions identified in article are members of those associations. Can you tell me your response to this. And what are you doing to ensure that members of your organization are not perpetuating social and economic injections in africanamericans and other minorities continue to face read this is very troublesome to me. Certainly i would understand that. Forgive me. Im not aware of this article. Im at a disadvantage there. But from what you said, i certainly i would be concerned about the sort of issues. Im sure Companies Named in that article, they are looking at what is going on there. I would be happy to look more into it. Thanks much. Mr. Chairman, i would like to request the committee is the powers and resources that is necessary to subpoena documents from this related to the lending discrimination, investigation and predicts u depositions of te theaters ofen the occ including the director himself. To get to the bottom of these allegations. We have been preparing them. It has been talked about. Im sorry the mr. Demarcos not familiar with the article. My time is up. Your request is duly noted it. It will be acted on in the due course of events. The chair now recognizes next thee gentleman for questions of five minutes. Thank you mr. Chairman can you hear me. I can. Will i think you first saw the witnesses here. I appreciate your testimony here. Thank you determine rain and Ranking Member bar and chairwoman waters. I appreciate you holding this hearing. I had the honor and privilege of representing the first Congressional District of new york which covers most of sussex county. It is one of the most expensive places to live in the country. Click mortgage options are potential to my constituents. There today to discuss Mortgage Services for client facing role in a spirited a letter, with 19 of the members of this committee, the lender highlighted need to ensure or gauge servicing. Because there typically obligated to advance payments with principal at insurance and taxes and insurance onto the investors are in and whether the borrowers make those payments or not. In the homeowner fails or falls behind on payments, servicers roll to work with the borrower and find ways to get the back on track through the modifications. In cares act, congress decided that a nationwide run skilled f Forbearance Program was needed. But itta was important that stes were taken for the four merits takeup rate continues to skyrocket. Mortgage servicers have a vital role to playy in helping borrowers to not shoulder the entire amount in the Government Action to protect the homeowners impacted by covid19. If they do not have access to meet that liquidity to execute on those Government Actions read and they continue to work with a servicers on how best to serve the homeowners. And hud and ffa and distributed to the Mortgage Services. The stepbystep instructions, help guide servicers and discussions with the borrowers. Additional information and have provided assistance killing with loans and forbearances. On april 24th, follow Mortgage Servicers automatically waive the fees place homeowners in a threemonth forbearance as soon as the payment is missed whether or not this action that will. Will doctor demarco up with questions for you. Borrowers young medically enrolled. They speak with their servicer first with regard to seem what is best. Is best to talk with their servicerer first. Find out with the circus bear issues are. Work with the borrower to determine what is the appropriate invest horse with at particular borrowers issue. Mary responded that. We we agree that people should try to talk to servicers and i stated before, more borrowers not paying their mortgages. That are making forbearance arrangements to the Services According to the u. S. Census bureau. People who are already late in the mortgages and taking another product. They should facend foreclosure. They should get more assistance. Thankk you. Doctor demarco. They seem to have leveled off for now. Rate forour success that situation. I think that is a result of the administrative actions that you mentioned critically by fha and hud, as well as actions by the Federal Reserve, the situation has stabilized. And by the regulatory actions, limits around the servicers liquidity responsibility on any given loan actually enables the private market to seven and provide additional liquidity once we had Great Services about what the rules was going to look like in terms of advances rated and with the duration will look like in the markets actually stepped in. We still believe that theha fed and the treasury should be ready to step in as needed. If the situation turns force again. Thank you emma time is running out. But think again all of the witnesses for being here. And chairwoman waters and ranking number four, which is the audio. I hope all of your families are healthy. Thank you for your Financial Services read. Which are now recognizes chair of the task force on financial technology. Five minutes for questioning. Thank you very much. Appreciate you holding this hearing. I would like to look further out in terms of in january or hopefully when we start to come out of this locked down especially in the Southern States worried what is a transition look like in terms of recognizing the inability tremendous pressure that is been put on to the homeowners. And also to the banks in the local community banks. Was that transition look like in terms of trying to slowly incrementally get us back to where theres full opportunity for people to catch up on their mortgage payments and in some cases, reengineering some of the mortgage products that are out there. Or reconstituting the mortgages that are on that are inadvertently falling behind. Does it all come together. Is it the Mortgage Servicers or. Obviously the Mortgage Service that has obligations to the shareholders. Im a little bit unclear on howw we can reengineer this in a way that doesnt put a homeowner for the renter in some cases, a severe risk. Lets say that president. The emergency status and by executive order, might and all of the relief that we have been providing. What is a look like and how we help those people transition slowly back to some resemblance of normalcy. I would be glad to take a crack at that congressman. The 4. 8 million households in forbearance, you can imagine that not everyone is going to come out of the forbearance in the same situation. Over the last few months i think between the gst fha, and i dont want to leave out d. A. And usda. There has been a lot of developments about providing the guidelines for these programs are what that post forbearance hopes like. I think it can be simply boiled down into broadly, for borrower amount of forbearance, and the capacity not just to continue to pick up the mortgage payments. It may determine they want to be in a shortterm payments to get caught up faster. So a lot of borrowers, once i can go back to work, they can presume their pre pandemic mortgage payment. It may be paid more than that or maybe not. But in that case, the payment will be added to the end of the the loan to life of be paid then. Close income have been permanently disrupted, were going to be able to do a loan modification. By redoing the loan using Loan Modifications. Steve dont anticipate any objection on the part of some of the shareholders that have payments through the Mortgage Services really dont expect any actions that we would have to take in order to make that happen. Its already in place. I am happy to have you answer. Fully saw in the last crisis and what we can see is that as you said, servicers on private prmortgages are beholden to the guidelines from the investors rated so what we want to see is estate harbor for Mortgage Servicers and investors liability so they can provide Loan Modifications along the lines that the fha and others agencies can provide that are sustainable. I would add that these issues are unprecedented we dont get or dont know whether the loan modification being offered will be affordable at the time. Is a perfect answer. I wanted to know that in case we needed to create a safe harbor to allow the servicers to give a break to some of these mortgage folders. We need to collaborate in that. That would be a winwin all of the way around. Thank you very much. Jenna recognizes next person for five minutes for questions. Thank you chairman green and Ranking Member far and to our witnesses or just fighting before the committee today. The earliest we know approximate 4. 1 million homeowners are in forbearance plans. Some due to the uncertainty surrounding the covid19. Reports have shown that a large number however have continued to make payments even after requesting forbearance. An arrest dropped sharply between march and june. And back here in tennessee, folks are ready to get back to work. I believe we need to do so as quickly and safely as possible. Doctor demarco, why do some people opt into forbearance by continue to pay down the principles in your opinion. Im not sure there is one explanation for that. In some cases that mightve been a timing issue. They were sure when they got requesting time for the first month. T cases, even a majority, the consumer wasnt exactly sure what the situation was going to be. Maybe they had a lot of uncertainty at work in thert wanted to get on forbearance quickly so they cut that. And once they realize in fact, the circumstances were okay. They may have ended the forbearance, or others may have needed it and started to take advantage of it. I think theres multiple reasons. Are the consequences. If one, and you are supposed to with the cares act say, have an Economic Hardship resulting from the pandemic in order to ask for the forbearance. So if you ask for it and continue to make your mortgage payments, theres no adverse consequence for you. Do you believe in getting americans safely backie to work i am sorry couldnt hear you. Do believe that getting americans back to work would decrease the number of borrowers who actually need to be in forbearance. While certainly, the more people we get back to work, the more they can pay their mortgage and the forbearance. The cares act requires additional forbearances homeowners with troubles due to the pandemic of those provisions only close and cover back once. Help as the private Mortgage Services changed their practices to help families in their homes. Theres generally doing the same thing as others are doing. Theyre offering mortgage payments forbearance for the customer to contact them. And the because of the pandemic hardship. One think that i wanted to point out is most private servicers as they have an investor that they are servicing for, their missing payments and so at about 120 days for forbearance pretty much more financially strapped. We are concerned the 90 day forbearances are not going to go to 180 days the private market. That will prevent a a significat or presented significant problem. We have addressed is one of our private servicers need to follow the fha guidelines. [inaudible]. I would less than like to add let me just go onto the another question and reclaiming time. Doctor marco, what efforts have you seen stakeholders make to protect the homeowners pret pretty. I think you have done a great deal, on their websites, clear information for borrowers to understand what their options are. They made a tremendous effortopo shift all of their servicing operations to the individuals homes and have them do the technology around that. To make that happen. And i think those have been terrific efforts and services that have been made. And the other is that proactively reaching out to the customers to find out with her situation is and make sure they are getting the right tools to help in their situation. Thank you. I believe the Trump Administration has continued to roll out updated guidance for thee stakeholders. I would like later to hear about your assessment of how the agencies have assisted with the implementation of the cares act. Gentlemen some have has expired the chair of the Small Business committee for five minutes of questions. Thank you chairman green. In chair offers in the Ranking Members for this important quite timely hearing. This question is for the common. Recently, responsible mandating applications. [inaudible]. s for the Trump Administrations that weakening of the roles thereby and has their five making it harder that the discriminations faces frantic. [inaudible]. Changes as well. So within like yes or no, does anyone believe now if they are trying to with no. Next person. No. Next person. No. And mr. Demarco. We dont want to we can this pretty. Thank you. While the fha has provided some guidance does the fha services, regarding implementation of the cares act, related to the forbearance. The recent reports found in a court, fha servicers website about 90 percent of fha loans provided incomplete, dated and guidance to borrowers. Do you think further guidance from the fha and servicers regarding forbearance is needed. Yes fha should provide further guidance and so should congress included the next package party and written notice and oral notice. Twenty think the fha has this guidance. I cannot answer why fha has not been that. Will say that i agree with doctor demarco the think of the really incredible job of putting out a lot of information and adjust but out of all the new rules which will hopefully make more more affordable for more people. Thank you. What your Payment Terms of services from communications from borrowers about a lump sum payment at the end of the forbearance. They do you feel misinformation about repayment options from the borrowers afforded to them on the cares act. [inaudible]. Absolutely. The people that we talk to, are frazzled about this lump sum payment. A few of them of actually even heard of the 180 days let alone the year. It is causing a lot of a new headaches in these communities. In the really concerned about their ability to pay. Let alone after 90 days. They are concerned that when they are going to work and at the question earlier is when employment increases, things will be a little bit let it better. But right now these homeowners aret frazzled. Thank you. Despite everything for the servicer pretty. Thank you. Theyre not getting the right information. Thank you. Just deduct out on what she said. We basically need more awareness. The borrowers need to know theyre going to be protected. On tv, radio. And even emails. They need to be protected. Is so whose responsibility is it to get this information out. The servicers and the governors right now. And as we send our statements. Thank you. Mr. Williams. The current forbearance might still be unable to make the payments when there forbearance expires. Based on what you have seen over months, are you concerned about Services Ability to work with borrowers. Donnell williams i am very concerned. I have two witnesses, two people that i know the said one sentence and incorporate the problem at all. That is what they told this lady pretty and they would not be able to print another servicer gave the person, the borrower 90 days. Three months. They have a payment of 17000 at the end of that. So im assuming it pretty. Thank you. The time has expired. The sheriff wont now recognize the next person or five minutes of questions. It is good to be with you all, thank you. Through this conference video. I appreciate you having this be a distant january february, some of the lowest unemployment in history of south carolina. In the history of our country. Covid19 us change everything. The federal government said what did what he could. Cares act is done a lot of great things. And i think overwhelming lee its in the right direction. Will make sure that we get the next package right. In the morning to be tailored who needse it. People that are still struggling from unemployment for the southern economic challenges, we need to make sure that we get them the healthy and pretty were expecting our senior and sooner the better my opinion. Im sure we all b agreed that. Probably one of the first people i get a big some in the national guard. But i had hope they get it right the first time. Mr. Demarco. I am concerned that in october and november, we are going to hit our six month and we will have a lot of people are still unemployed. That will have challenges making the aim is pretty what should we be considering to address that. The majority of homeowners, they get six months and if theyre still expressing an Economic Hardship because of this panama, and they should be in touch with their servicer ane requesting an additional extension of their forbearance time. And the answer is alreadync the. Larger question is getting people back to work. And balancing in dealing with but the Health Issues that our country is facing as well as getting the economy going. Were dealing with that exact issue in south carolina. And it is that if you are older, or had Underlying Health condition, we need you to protect yourself. We need to make sure that you are able to protect yourself. You not worried about how your credit is ruined or your risk your safety going back to work. But if youre healthy and lower risk factor, we need you to get back to work because ultimately getting the economy restarted in the vaccine is what is going to get us through this. I just wanted to supplement what mr. Demarco said. We do want to see people get back to work when its time to do to do that in a are healthy. One third of the Mortgage Market is not government backed loans pretty soon we want make sure that people can get affordabler Loan Modifications if they need them after their forbearance is so that we can see an increase in employment decreased foreclosure. I appreciate that. It was remarkable to me. If so many businesses and individuals calling and talking about this issue thatle we are discussing a balloon payment at the end of the time. And i had a call from the Credit Unions the next day and i just wanted to make sure that was not going to be anywhere. Obviously. I think the adverse impact and perception of any entity not providing forbearance to those who need it. Would not be worth rub. Books are different subject. As youll know, the have adopted to break origination policies pretty to archer most environment we find ourselves in. This is applied to appraisals, underwriting and remote. This is been usually helpful. Hubs maintain the market during the pandemic. Do you think these promote policies which are set to expire august 31st should be permanent. These policies i certainly help keep the Mortgage Market going. Yes pretty we would like to see these made permanent pretty. Mr. Williams. I believe some of those programs, some of those options should be made available and permanent. Ms. Kelly. Summa yes, we think thats in a very important programs but we need to make sure theyre only used in certain circumstances we need to make sure that the appraisals are still reasonablyi accurate. Absolutely think we can agree to that. Thank you for having a steering and i look forward to working with you on these issues. The chair recognizes the gentleman for five minutes for questions. Think mr. Jack. I have to say that i subscribe to whats he just had to say. And pretty realistic view of what we are facing in the question that he asks. And i had taken some nondefense but i differed with mr. Morris he had started off. This is a tough Economic Situation that we are in as a result of the government mandated shutdown. On them online this is covid19 related. We dont have it under control. This thing is going to continue to evolve. Its going to be difficult. We dont know and how many different ways. And as mr. Timmons was saying and i think all of us lee, each of us has to provide some kind of latitude to others. For all of us to get through this thing. Thirtyseven states this past weekend change increased numbers of infections and hospitalizations are not out of this rainy stretch of the imagination. I think the housing industry, the mortgage industry are going to continue to be rolled by this for some time. I think this is going to evolve. I would ask ms. Griffin and mr. Demarco, there are provisions in the heroes act to contemplate the fact that we ae not out of this virus yet. And that at the end of this month, if pandemic Unemployment Insurance runs out. We see a lot of the funding for the ppes grading have been exhausted by individuals businesses. We have another stimulus or stability payment read if this virus continues. And ill start with you must prevent. Are we going to need to implement Something Like the heroes act for people and payy the mortgages. Forget about forbearance rated i think we would all like them to pay the mortgage. Absolutely. The reality is the more help that we can give to homeowners the better. Theyre going to need it as you just said. The situation is not getting better. Worse. Etting certainly consideration hoping the homeowners and helping organizations like ours and others who can help homeowners can there be in work with these servicers. This is really critical. These guys really do not have of the homeowners to not have or at least many of them l do not hava grasp for what is next. So the work cannot certainly save the counselingat organization, that we can do, just let it settle people down and give them direction. And even help to provide advice and guidance about working with thewe servicer as well is how to enhance their own lives. This what we want. And we certainly need to think about a program that was very effective the last time. I think very effective Going Forward and this is something we would really encourage pretty. I think of that. And mr. Demarco, just quickly. I think it was hit the now on the head. We have uncertainty and fear. In an economy, and slows the economy down. No incense or butts pretty need to be some puddle of certainty and try and help like in a vaccine as soon as you can. Or make Technological Breakthroughs to take away the fear. Doctor demarco. We think were going to be. If this virus is not distinguished or followed by a vaccine for five or six or seven months. A great party this is a big picture question about our economy. Even large businesses. In their suffering because how the pandemic intersects thoseho industries and businesses. Is causing great hardship among families because of the furloughs and the unemployment. So this is a big Macro Economic challenge. There is a bit outside of my scope. I understand that theres been talking about the need to continue the fiscal support invasive this pandemic and the economic response to it is affecting our economy and businesses in the workers. So dont have a particular prescription but i think mr. Powell, karen powell certainly identified that. I think you and i yield back to the chair. The chair now recognizes mr. Taylor for five minutes for questions. Thank you i appreciate this hearing. I think this is a very important topic and i think that, we hear a lot about the individual impact freedom i think that all of us see that everyday in our district. I know that in texas, is a real need of our communities and deeply affected. Surfactant talk about the macro for a second. The big picture. So right now about 8 percent of those in the united states, are presently in forbearance. Just think about what that could mean. Lets just kind of look at that for a second. My guess is going to be about 8 percent of the homes i will be proposed in the next year. When he goes to sell or liquidate those, that would basically collapse therk realse estate market. Home values would collapse. Crosscountry because you have a tremendous amountam of provider. And i am that based on the experience in dallas texas went through. During the 80s. Right tremendous amount of foreclosures. Back in the 80s and early 90s. The liquidation for such that Office Buildings were trading for 10. 4foot. Like a ticket me tell poverty. Literally for paying thein taxe. Do you have any thoughts but how bad would it be, for the Housing Market in this country on the evaluation side and 12 24 months when youbu had a bunch of liquidations. It certainly would be bad. I dont know how to state any differently than you did. It would be bad. One of the things that forbearances have accomplished is assisted in the response to the health isis. By allowing people to stay at home and pointing or whatever the particle standard is in the community is to help suppress the virus. Its something to combat the virus and recognizing the economic support for the household and for those workers is not going to be able to pay the mortgage. So not just what happens in the workplace but also the health impact. Mr. Williams like to add to that. Donnell williams it would be horrific. What happened to, when i went to school, the topic the three necessities of life. Food clothing and shelter. How to begin spelling out Airline Industries before we look out for the homeless. Philip we dont do something, when i get everyone involved in getting the same age. And if we dont move quickly, then we will be in for a huge problem. If i could add to that. For small, low e4 clearances will have provided a profound help to homeowners. We would be inundated without it with foreclosures. Theres a possibility were headed towards that. Certainly we need to Work Together. But for people of color, please communities, without thes, forbearances, without the work that we are doing together. Dont be a whole other generation of possible. It is bad now. It appears to get worse. And hopefully we can Work Together. On about the macro situation. Would you like the way in. What about a macro catastrophe by using forbearances. I agree with that. I think we should also keep in mind in this macro situation is, was not making the payments does not have a forbearance. What is that going to do to the economy and Property Values as well. Now can we collect data we understand what is going on so that we can prevent this catastrophe. Sure my final few seconds, working with a lot ofth membersn this committee on both sides to try to work on forbearance and trying help within the commercial real estate space because we have done a great job. We have heard that and we have much more to do. But it seems we are headed in the right direction. But we are deeply concerned. The time has expired. Thank you so much chairman. Thank you so much for this really critically important hearing. I know of the offering has come to my district and talking about housing and just about much communities are still suffering. So many of my business especially in wayne county have been on survivor mode. En. Especially in the housing mechanism, i dont know about healthcare but especially with housing. I think this is critically important and i think my colleague Mister Taylor was talking about this. Forbearance in these kind of moratoriums on watershed of utility, Student Loans and mortgages, they are just bandaids because all that money is going to be due when the forbearance is up so what are we going to do then . I wanted to possibly start with Mister Williams. You know from many of your clients and even in your membership, because what i hear from my president is why are we deferring payments . Why arewe doing something as aggressive and bold as we are doing for airlines and other industries . What are we having our pay all this debt down le can because again, some of these jobs wont come back but even if the jobs come back theyre not going to have that lump sum rate to go to pay off they still might end up losing their home. Can you talk about that . Sure and youre absolutely right but thats why we asked for that five point plan. We have serious illusions that we want you to take a look at so thats the direction we feelwe should go in. Weve been decimated. This is a critical time its time for action. I appreciate you bringing up my black neighbors because we lost more black ownership in michigan and any other state, about 40 percent so attorney cohen, youve been vocal about how you talk about these issues and the fact that we are leaving a lot of our neighbors across the country, homeowners behind in the way were approaching this. I dont know if your family or with automatic community but there would be reoccurring payments on a debit card and ucdo you think that would help with some of the issues with people losing their homes because of this pandemic . Thank you for your question miss tlaib. I can talk to my colleagues about it but the biggest problem withllfinancially strapped people is that they are financially strapped. So their living on the edge and need cash in addition help from their services and all their other creditors so anything we can do to do that will move things in the right direction. People should also look closely at the Homeowners Assistance Fund because the state can administer programs to the hardest hit areas in ways that might be constructive. Also congresswoman, getting the word out so that the homeowner or the borrower is knowledgeable enough about the program. This has the same effect as a ppp where huge companies, we didnt get any because we werent. Even with the ppp and my incredible colleague miss velasquez has been so much, bringing the voices of Small Businesses. Lets be honest, the services are playing games with peoples lives. If youre not saying the correct word, if youre not requesting it a certain way. A member of congress myself and i know im new but i have to pick up the phone and call a servicer and say why did you tell my resident they dont qualify went according to the legislation we passed eythey do qualify . Well, they need to say it this way. Y,this is not a game. They obviously cant pay so nolets put that as an option and stop playing games with people. Theyre going to lose their home. They just dont have the capability of doing it and im tired of people pretending that its because of economic shutdown. We did this to them. We put them on survivor mode. Theyve been one emergency away and now the pandemic has happened but they were one emergency away from going into poverty so i think its our responsibility to put people first but i think all of you so much but i think we need to talk about it in, we talk about this program and of course we need allthose programs in the five points reoccurring payments. Other countries are doing that, theyre giving people human dignity. Lets let them choose whats right for their familyand repayment is going to be key here. Thank you chairman green, its always a pleasure to work with you. The dental lady yields and the chair recognizes the gentle lady missed dean for five minutes area class thank you mister chairman, can you hear me. I can. I thank you for calling this Important Committee meeting. I think chairwoman waters as well. I think the Ranking Member misterbarr and mister barr you and your family are in my prayers. Im really pleased to be here to talk about this and know that the lens that i am looking through, what were talking about here in terms of folks and their mortgages in precarious places is one from what lessons did we learn from the past. Whatdid we learn from 2008 . I was not in congress than like representative to leave i am a freshman but as representative taylor talked about we have 4 million Mortgage Loans in forbearance as our testify or have told us. Many people are not in forbearance and are missing payments so we got a gaping hole there. And we put together information and important protections through the care zach and we want to do even more through the heroes act. We need to get people protections they need the over there had to protect protect edit and their families. Mister miss williams i like to start with you. You and thompson have already talked about this but your concerns about what Mortgage Services are and are not doing to protect borrowers in terms of whether its communication or reaching out when a payment is missed to find out whats going on to see if they should be put into wforbearance. Other things do you think need to be done in order to get protection, forbearance to as manyborrowers as possible. I think they need to, we need to have some communication going out. They need to put in their mailings, emails. It should be a commercial on television. Getting this information out. I think we can enter ourselves. I think that their limited in giving information to services atlike diversity as well. So those are the important things i think often that needs to issue communication to area. Id like to add in there also that and complement the outreach is critical. What we have found from the past foreclosure crisis was that people are, they really need some guidance. They really need some help and even if the servicers send out information, it needs to be clear. It needs to be simple and without question, we really need to have some advocates in the midst can be able to explain things to these borrowers who as you said are congresswoman, they are on edge. And really just need some guidance so that outreach is certainly critical and the handling date is also critical. Can i say one other thing. I agree with Mister Williams and ms. Griffin but the servicers dont have the capacity to do the level of servicing that were going to see. They didnt do it well and last crisis and theyre not doing well now. You can get on the website and you dont need much from them but if you actually need something from them is more complicated so we cant put the onus on the homeowners to understand and reach out. We need automated systemsand we need to make sure that people are offered what they need without having to go through a lot of red tape. Missed thats a perfect segue and i wanted to ask you what are the lessons we learned in the past that i hope we desperately do not repeat in this economic collapse. What are some of those lessons . The first one is people need affordable options when they cant do their regular mortgage payment, came out of the last crisis was a general understanding about that but we dont knowwhether the programs we have now will be affordable. Ab when you have a crisis in black and latinx homeownership you need to look freshly at what the problems are and what the solutions areand to ask yourself whether we need to start something new. Let me ask you in my final seconds here. You talked earlier in your testimony about the cfpb and what they need to help people avoid foreclosure. What is the responsibility of the cfpb and what could they bedoing proactively because we see a number of complaints going through the rough. What should they be doing to help people avoid foreclosure. I have a long list in my testimony but let me give one to you. Work with the federal Housing Finance agency on the Viral Protection program , provide transparent data, learn from consumercomplaints and take action against companies that are misbehaving. Second right now they have an interim final rule that they put out that they need to reprotect people against foreclosure which theyhavent done. And you mister chairman. The dental ladies time has expired. The chair recognizes himself for fiveminutes. Mii will tell you friends i was here in 2008 and i saw how we treated the big banks. The truth is this. They were overpaid. Overpaid, overpaid in this sense there were banks that said we dont want that money. We dont want to appear as though we need the money. But we imposed upon them billions of dollars. People overpaid. But when it comes to the consumer, the consumer gets shortchanged. The consumer has to jump through all kinds of hoops. To try to get what congress intended consumersto receive. So im just appalled to be quite frank with you at the fact that the consumer always seems to find himself or herself groveling to a certain extent to get something these big banks as a matter of course m. Im not opposed to big banks. I just want everybody to be treated fairly. This program in my opinionhas no consequences. If these servicers misbehave there are no consequences. It seems to me that we in the future will have to find a way to impose some consequences. My constituents who have actually received this notice that is according them three months of forbearance when theyre entitled to hundred 80 days, they dont they now have to hire a lawyer. They cant get it done amply because they have made a fair and just request as they will have to go through some other extenuating circumstances. I would like to note that this would be submitted into the record without objection. I would also call to your attention this. It always seems people of color are having to account for themselves. We have to prove that people of color are being discriminated against. And this is not just as it relates to the Financial Services industry across the board. People of color always aim to be at the bottom. At some point we have to have a system of justice such that people of color will get the same treatment as other persons in their society area i think that what happened to george floyd is exposing the underbelly of whats happening to people of color and other people are starting to realize that it will take more than our price to get this done. Its my belief that there is systemic discrimination. Let me go to you Mister Williams, if i may please sir. Do you agree that is discrimination taking place in lending . I do, i totally agree. I see it often. We have some resolutions that need to be no better time than now that we need to t address the black homeownership program. Time is of the essence. Ms. Griffin, you agree that there is systemic discrimination in lending western mark. Yes there is. Go next to mescaline. You agree there six discrimination in lending . I agree, the cfpb found for people with the same Credit Scores blacks were rejected athigher rates. It and mister dimarco do you agree . I agree that we certainly had a history of this and there seems to still be areas where its an issue yesterday. But if you agree that there is this systemic discrimination. I have proposed that we have a department of reconciliation with the responsibility of dealing with racism and insidious discrimination in this country and it would deal with Financial Services, goes into policing and many other areas. If you agree that we have this problem and we had for hundreds of years. Isnt it about time that wedo something other than what we have been doing. Would you agree Mister Williams that it would be appropriate to have a department of reconciliation has as its responsibility to look out for people being discriminated against and this would include the protected classes. Look out for them, report to the president , a secretary of reconciliation. Would you agree such a position should exist. I agree wholeheartedly is where you stand. We think thats important and we think its important to. Time is of the essence. Where do you stand please. I agree it needs to be monitored and there needs to be penalties. And mister dimarco. I have no opinion on a position like that. I do believe we all have a responsibility. We do this now that youve said this mister dimarco. All persons in agreement noand you think systemic racism and invidious discrimination as it relates to the classes should behandled with the departmentthat specializes in this , kindly raise your hand. Raise your hand so we may capture all onscreen. Ice i the everyones hands safe mister dimarco. Would you do a screenshot of thisplease . My time has expired. And i would like to also include for the record a statement from the Mortgage Bankers association without objection. Without objection as included in the record. Friends, if i may now bring this to closure. I think all all of you for appearing today especially the witnesses. And thank you for your testimony and for devoting your time and resources to share your expertise with the subcommittee. The testimony today has helped toadvance the important work of the subcommittee on the congress. The chair notes some members may have additional questions for this panel which they may wish to submit in writing area without objection the hearing will remain open for five legislative days and members to submit written questions to their responses in the record. Also without objection members will have five legislative days to submit extraneous materials to the chair or inclusion in the record. I remind members to submit written questions and materials for the record to the email address provided to your staff. This hearing is now adjourned. 16 term us representative eliot engel has lost his reelection bid. The 73yearold congressman chairs the House Foreign Affairs committee becomes the fifth house and come in, second democrat to lose their seats in this years primary area of the democratic winner in new yorks 16th Congressional District primary mold bowman is the middle School Principal from yonkers. There is no republican candidate in that district. Mister bowman will be challenged by the conservative party candidate. Tonight a special edition of the book tv airing weeknights this week. Starting at 8 pm, Dennis Desousa examines what he calls the new face of socialism and Pulitzer Prize winning Washington Post reporter mary jordan discusses the life and influence of first lady melanie a trump. Later, robin hood ceo westmore spoke about the 2015 baltimore uprising following the death of freddie gray from the perspective of residents who witnessed the unrest