Transcripts For CSPAN2 House Financial Services Subcommittee Hearing On Renters Issues During... 20240712

Subcommittee are able to participate in todays hearing. Members are reminded to keep their video function on at all times even when they are not recognized by the chair. Members are also reminded that they are responsible commuting and im getting themselves, and to mute themselves after they have finished speaking. Consistent with the regulations accompanying h. R. Rest 965, staff will fully mute members and witnesses as appropriate. When not recognize to avoid inadvertent background noise, like i am hearing now. Members are reminded that all forms relating to order and quorum apply to this remote hearing. This hearing is entitled the rent is still due americas renters, covid19 and an unprecedented eviction crisis. And i now recognize myself for minutes to give an opening statement. Welcome to all of you for our First Virtual hearing. During this very challenging and difficult time. Homeowners and land owners as Housing Market for whole. After ditching will focus our attention on how the covid19 pandemic is impacting our rental market. The harmful effects of this pandemic our physical and mental health, Financial Stability and overall way a thing can be even more devastating when you are unable to pay your rent. When everyone is been being too stay inside to avoid getting sick, now is one of the worst times for families to lose their homes to eviction. Families who experience eviction are likely to experience greater poverty and a host of other negative outcomes that make it harder for the family to get back on their feet, especially during a time when our country faces a growing economic crisis. And worst cases, these familis may fall into homelessness. Lets be clear. Many low income families were already struggling to pay their housing costs prepandemic, as is a legal point that in her testimony, even before the pandemic, 23 Million People and 10. 7 million income household paid more than half their income in rent and rents across the country have become increasingly unaffordable. Many of these people work in jobs that do not allow them the flexibility to save and stash reserves for a rainy day. Because as many can attest, it always seems to be raining down on them, and covid19 has become an unrelenting storm. We also know that the economic effects of covid19 pandemic are disproportionately being felt by people of color. In the month of april, latinx unemployment was over 18 , and black unemployment was over 16 , while the Census Bureau reports that latinx and black households are struggling to pay rent at higher rates than white households. Congress acted quickly in march to pass the cares act. That includes language from a bill that i introduced which provided mortgage forbearance, including for multi family and singlefamily rental Property Owners. But theres much more that needs to be done. The urban institute estimates that as this pandemic goes on, up to 17. 6 million renter households could need rental assistance at a cost of 96 billion for six months to be able to remain in their homes. To further respond to the crisis, the house passed the heroes act which includes 100 billion for emergency rental assistance, increase protections against eviction, and other Housing Resources to support hud and usda programs. The house acted another senate must get to work. I call on my Senate Colleagues to pass this bill, to bring muchneeded relief to families across the country, including struggling renters. Thank you and i look forward to hearing testimony of eyeWitnesses Today. And i now recognize the Ranking Member for four minutes for an opening statement. Thank you, chairman clay. I appreciate your holding this hearing. I apologize for the video but i am in the rural part of my district on a cell phone today, and still able to be in on the hearing and i appreciate that. Obviously today seeing what a valley with of covid19 on americas housing security which is extremely important topic, and its important to focus on it. The time of the gentleman has expired begin our committee has highlighted the link between housing security and outcomes of health, education, and career prospects. So at the time with such economic volatility its right to focus on this topic. And as i mentioned during a a roundtable congresses take an extra day steps to deal with the unprecedented Public Health crisis and its impact on our economy. The 2 trillion spending in the cares act combined with trillions from the Federal Reserve would have been unthinkable at the start of 2020s but theres been bipartisan consensus on those items because of the severity of the problem. The cares act in its supplementation have not been perfect but with respect to housing security, its clear that the laws forbearance provisions combined with extended Unemployment Insurance programs have helped sustain individuals through the last few very difficult months. All 50 states have begin to reopen their economies and the bureau of labor statistics reported that in may the economy added 2. 5 million jobs. Unemployment remains unacceptably high so we find itself in a rapidly evolving situation and congress and Administration Must evolve our response to meet those demands. I am keeping an open mind about what that response should look like but its clear we should focus on the formulas work in the cares act, namely many to focus know what unreal problems that are demonstrated by the best and most appropriate data. Never do, it should not be previous policy goals by republicans or democrats that predate the pandemic but should be a response. Number three, it should truly help the housing and rental markets, not harm them through and attended consequences. Number four, it should be bipartisan. I know the democratic memo points to all alarming statistics from apartment list. Com on payments of rent from renters but the National Multi Family Housing council data suggest significantly higher payment rates. I think we need to keep all that in mind and try to sort out the facts. A new forbearance request have slowed. Thats good news. Im grateful to hear from our Witnesses Today and look forward to working together on underlying problems. Finally, i have enjoyed the discussion with chairman clay on the need to address Racial Disparities in homeownership and i think that something that is in the jurisdiction of our committee we should be looking at what their event items that are outside the jurisdiction of most of our committee, mostly in the Judiciary Committee that we cant turn a blind eye to including the injustice that occurred in minneapolis. George floyd should still be alive today. So should countless other africanamericans, and to think we need to Work Together regardless of the fact that this is mostly in the jurisdiction of the Judiciary Committee to root out injustice wherever we find it. Thank you. I look for to working with republicans and democrats on these important issues and i look forward hearing from our Witnesses Today. Thanks holding fishery, mr. Chairman. Thank you, mr. Stivers, and thank you for your encouraging words. I i look for to working with you also. To tackle these issues as they come before this committee and before congress. At this time i recognize the chairperson of the full committee, the gentleman from california for one minute, ms. Waters. Good afternoon and thank you, chairman clay. I want to thank we already did with our rental crisis long before the pandemic. This pandemic has only made matters worse with black and latinx renters bearing the brunt of the pain. According to the terms and come black and latinx renters are overrepresented among selected population and expect to be financially impacted by covid19. Making up 28 and 18 respectively. Even though the only comprise 18 18 and 12 of your population. While the cares act included an Eviction Moratorium that covered some renters, it provided no rental assisted assistance fore struggling to pay their rent during the pandemic. I am pleased the heroes act includes a proposal by mr. Hecht and myself to provide 100 billion for emergency rental assistance. And so im looking forward to hearing from eyeWitnesses Today about the importance of keeping everyone safe during and after this crisis. Thank you so very much and i yield back. That chairwoman yields back, and thank you, madam chair, for your steadfast leadership on the issue, in this area on housing and how we make people secure in their housing. I appreciate the working relationship that we have. Today, we welcome the testimony of Cashauna Hill, executive director of louisiana their Housing Action center. Mike kinsella, executive director, up for growth. And believe, visiting senior fellow, center on budget and policy priorities. Jenny schuetz, aloe, the brookings institution. Witnesses are reminded that your oral testimony to be limited to five minutes, i ask that you respect the members and other witnesses time my wrapping up your testimony. Without objection your written statement will be made heart of the record, and now ms. Hill, you are recognize for five minutes to give an oral presentation of your testimony. Thank thank you, good afterno you all. My name is Cashauna Hill and the service a given director louisiana fair Housing Action center. I want to thank Committee Chair waters and subCommittee Chair clay for the opportunity to address this subcommittee today. I would also like to thank Ranking Member mechanic and subcommittee Ranking Member stivers and on the list of this subcommittee for luck me all of the witnesses here. The louisiana fair Housing Action center was established in 1995 to eradicate housing discoloration and segregation where based in new orleans and serve all of louisiana as early full service or Housing Advocacy group in the state. Our work includes work across for programmatic areas, education and outreach, foreclosure prevention counseling, free legal representation to people of experience housing discoloration, and policy advocacy at the state and local levels. 52 years after the passage of the federal Fair Housing Act when housing discoloration in the United States remains a divisive force the perpetuates poverty and segregation limits access to opportunity. The work of our center is dedicated to eradicating this scourge and to addressing the legacy of discomfort or housing policies that continue to feed unjust outcomes across the country. In louisiana we have a lot of experience recovering from disaster. Whether from Hurricane Katrina and rita devastated south louisiana in 2005, following the levee breaches or the great flood of 2016 in the baton rouge area we know and all of their destruction and tragedy are often an opportunity to imagine a different future. It is imperative we take the chance to deploy the resources needed to write past wrongs that made so many members of our community foldable to covid19 in first place. I want want to elicit the challenges we face through the story of daniel seymour. She was working three jobs in the pandemic it in march. Her jobs at local basketball arena, waiting tables on bourbon street in helping to run a Tulane University cafeteria all disappeared within the same week as more sheltered in place to swell the coronavirus at the time she was staying in an Extended Stay Hotel as she waited for inspection on original. Despite a local Eviction Moratorium, they hired a secured card to cut off door locks and barge into rooms with a gun drawn. The most likely only us with work of local legal aid attorney they kept the situation from deteriorating for the i wish her story was an outlier but nearly half of all renters in louisiana were paying more than they could afford on rent and utilities before covid19. As is true across the country the effects of overtaking have fallen to support it on low income and black counsels. In new orleans many of the census tracts with high school in making per capita rate poorly with majority black it was that have seen also the highest detection rates. Without additional federal assistance we expect the reopening of Eviction Court that the state to only even this disparity. Short of rent and mortgage cancellation louisiana renters and land owners definitely need a massive rental Assistance Program to fight the 100 billion set aside for rental assistant. Another crucial element of the heroes act is an extension of the cares act Eviction Moratorium to recover all renters. The cares act moratorium was an important step in the right direction but has proven quite a bit difficult to the local level and lees argument renters out. Because the last four records of the landlord selected number are often hard to look up a mortgage of most renters in louisiana will not have any way to determine whether they are covered under the cares act and has ordered from very difficult to plan for enforcement of the act and educate the public. The courts decide to do right thing and not required tended to provide information, were left with quartz left and soap to research on each property when eviction is vital to ensure the property is not to subsidize or subject to a federally backed mortgage. In louisiana most jurisdictions handle evictions and justice of the peace court which are woefully unprepared to handle this level of engagement. Justices of the peace are often nonlawyers come few if any step and in some community as it is common for courts to be held in the justice of the peace garage, living room or kitchen. I return at the point i open with, that if we do not address racial and other despairs early and our Disaster Recovery efforts were destined to f5 nccic black homeownership in new orleans on the rise has declined since katrina. Segregation in the city has increased since the storm and African Americans have been displaced from humanities on high grant that are less susceptible to flooding the community that are far from jobs. As we continue a long overdue national accomplishment racism in america, i offer we sit at the similar Decision Point in history as would just before the Fair Housing Act was passed in 1968. Fair housing advocates across the country understand providing a just path forward is necessary. I thank you for the opportunity to testify. [inaudible] yeah, im sorry. I have to get this nude down, but thank you for your testimony, now we recognize Mike Kingsella for five minutes. Chairman clay, Ranking Member stivers, and esteemed members of this subcommittee, thank you for inviting me to provide testimony at this important hearing. My background, we are a National Legislative advocacy focus on eliminating structural barriers to housing. The covid19 crisis has rapidly expose the fragility of Critical Systems and infrastructure in a country, and the housing ecosystem is no exception. Failure to address the looming red crisis will have dire consequences for millions of americans and for a healthy ecosystem that underpins our economy. It was already under strain from a severe shortage of homes. Immediately emergency rental assistance is the most important and urgent Action Congress can take. It is essential to ensure housing stability for the millions of americans impacted by covid19. And essential for the Housing Providers who rely on these payments. We commend the committee for its work thus far, come up with a country emergency rental assistant was included in the house passed heroes act. I hope by tesla will provide perspective as to why these measures and others are needed now more than ever. To fully understand the written associated challenges on the immediate horizon we need understand the severity of the existing housing crisis. The numbers are grim. The country is a lease 7. 3 million homes short of what we need to be, with deficits in every region. It spans all demographics and geographies. Nearly half american renter households are spending 30 or more other income on rent. Extremely low rent, extremely lowincome renters fared the worst with 31 31 of the folks making pillows 30 , and more than half the gross income on rent. And African American and hispanic renter households are much more likely to be cost burdened and their white neighbors. Decades of flawed housing policy led to more land in use for less housing and the people in the salt having to travel longer distances to find gainful employment. Covid19 has further destabilize an already struggling Housing Market. 15 Million People living in renter households were at least one person works in an industry most likely to be affected by covid19. In many of these households were already cost burdened. They cannot observe any sudden loss of income. It is vital that these families continue to stay in their homes. Rent is the cornerstone of the housing ecosystem. Interesting Property Investors both large and small. The housing sector contributes upwards of 80 of u. S. Gdp, 17 billion jobs are tied to the rental housing industry. Stable and durable rent payments sustain the financial system. And if the system is interrupted it will virtually eliminate the capital necessary for more housing to be built. State and local coffers are nearing their breaking point and cannot stop, cannot sustain a drop in tax revenue resulting in the drop in rent payments. Emergency rental assistance is vital. For millions of americans struggle to pay rent while expanded Unemployment Insurance benefits, onetime stimulus payments, and limited rent moratoria were necessary first steps. They are by design not equipped to address the longerterm problem. And that is why up for growth action supports emergency rental assistance in rental market stabilization act introduced by chairwoman waters and mr. Hecht. We would please with this legislation and its appropriation was included in the heroes act. The bill brawled with the principles set forth by a broad coalition, advocate industry and consumer groups. The focus of todays hearing is on the immediate red crisis i urge the committee to use opportunity to advance Solutions Needed to solve the underlying housing crisis, driven in large part by a severe shortage of homes. I outlined several proposal in my written testimony including chairwoman waters housing infrastructure act and mr. Hex bipartisan yes, and my backyard egg. Both of them reported favorably by this committee. Covid19 affects every system. I hope postmetal acts we can create a more just and equitable housing ecosystem. Thank you for hosting this important hearing and for your work on Housing Affordability i look forward to answering your questions. Thank thank you, mr. Kingsel. And now we go to ann oliva, visiting senior fellow, center on budget and policy priorities. My name is transit, visiting senior fellow at the center on budget and policy priorities. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today on this important topic. I want to begin by acknowledging the events of recent weeks and the systemic racism led to the death of george floyd, breonna taylor, ahmaud arbery, and many of the black americans. Because it relates to the topic that we discussing today. As a nation we must pursue Racial Justice and equity in housing justice must be part of the discussion because systemic racism also results in homelessness, housing instability, and the disgorge impact of covid19 on communities of color. The data is clear. Black people are dying of covid19 at 2. 4 times the rate of white people. Unemployment in may was still very high overall but felt among white workers and kept rising among black and latin exworkers. Black people account for 40 of those expressed homelessness with only 13 of the overall population and latin exaccount for 20 of those expensive homelessness but only 18 of the population. If our response to the Current Health and Economic Crises follows the same policy script as a past, we will do too little to stop the spike in evictions and homelessness, and black, latin examerican indian communities will suffer the most her first lets talk about the Public Health impact. Covid19 shows that housing is a form of healthcare people doubled up on target situation, people released from jail without a place to go, People Living on the street cannot socially distant or follow other Public Health guidance. Many of them are older or have disabilities or Underlying Health conditions that make them more susceptible to getting sick. From a Public Health perspective emergency rental assistance will be key in helping people in particularly vulnerable situations get in safe housing. Now lets talk about the Economic Impact. Even before the pandemic to many households were paying too much of their income in rent, making it harder for them to bounce back after a job loss or a cut in income. Experts expect that the economic downturn will haunt us for some time. Cbo estimates unemployment will be 8. 6 at the end of 2021, which is far more than double the precrisis level. In history shows us the labor market can remain weak far longer for black workers than white workers. So many black households will struggle longer with no, no earnings. If additional rental assistance is not made available, Community Across the country will struggle to address the impact of covid19. The heroic effort to safely sheltered thousands of Vulnerable People at risk of covid19 will be squandered it people wind up back on the street because they cant get rental assistance to transition to more permanent solutions. Large numbers of unsheltered people who want to come inside one continued to be criminalized and underserved. Its going to was of households cant pay rent, we might see a wave of evictions once the moratorium on evictions and. Some household will pay rent but stopping other bills like utilities which would put them at high risk of losing to housing in the future. These indicators of what might come highlight an important point. Covid19 has created a perfect storm of problem that will weaken communities and wide disparities with longlasting effects and less flexible rental assistance is available. The heroes act includes short medium and longer term options committees communities need to form a comprehensive covid19 response to a variety of demands and that benefit both household and landlords who own rental stock. In 2009 i love the design and accommodation of the Homelessness Prevention and Rapid Rehousing Program that serves over 1. 3 Million People during the Great Recession and is the closest model we have two what we need now. Given what weve learned since the implementation, and you emergency rental Assistance Program should incorporate several key elements. Communities should jews must use Racial Equity come Racial Justice and equity approach in their programs. They should in homelessness for as many people as possible. Communities should focus on Homelessness Prevention and remove barriers that prevent historical marginalized populations and of the people from accessing these funds. They should work with nontraditional partners that can reach into highly affected neighborhoods and areas and recipient should work closely with landlords in the permitting their programs. It showed us funding for emergency purposes cannot both immediate benefits in addressing the crisis and longterm benefit by leveraging funding and innovation to systemic change or thank you for opportunity to testify and a happy to take any questions. Thank you so much for your testimony, ms. Oliva. And i would recognize jenny schuetz, fellow, the brookings institution. Chairman clay, Ranking Member stivers and members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today. Even before the current crisis, more than 10 million households spent over half their inkm. And too much of their budget to housing, they may not be able to pay for food, health care or other necessities. Any loss of income will leave them unable to pay rent, increasing the risk of displacement. Low income, black and latino workers have been hit particularly hard by the current recession. Households earning less than 40,000 per year entire rates of job loss. Black and latino workers are likely to hold jobs that cannot be done remotely. And reflects past policy choices by federal, state and local governments. Federal rental assistance is not an entitlement unlike food stamps or medicaid. Roughly one in four eligible renters received any federal housing subsidies. Overly strict state and local regulations, such as zoning bans on apartments, contributes to high cost and limited availability of rental housing. Over the mortgage markets, the federal government plays a relatively small role in regulating rental housing. State governments set the parameters for tenant laws leading to wide variations. The patch work of moratorium is a predictable outcome at the state and local level. Additionally, it is important to underscore that temporary Eviction Moratoriums are not a longterm solution. And relieving financial pressure in the shortterm, however, families who cannot afford one month of rent now will Face Even Greater difficulty paying several months of overdue representative when the moratorium ends. It can have ripples throughout the economy. Landlords depend on rent to pay mortgages, taxes, utilities to local governments and pays for other workers, maintenance and staff. And will have the most and loss of rent payments may force them to stel their properties. Congress can address three channels, first and most importantly, renters who lost income due to the pandemic need direct Financial Assistance. The most recent jobs report suggests that the economic recovery may be uneven. Workers in heavily affected industries or geographic areas may require ongoing support even as the overall labor market intrudes. Second, local governments will have to process an unusually high volume of eviction cases, once temporary moratorium ends. Additional resources will allow them to manage the cases more equi equitybly. Targeted grants and low interest loans to Property Owners would have the viability of existing Affordable Housing. These three channels can help rentals and Property Owners survive the immediate crisis. Reducing longterm housing and security among low income renters will require either increased funding or restructuring existing housing subsidy programs. The federal government should also work with state and local governments to reform land use regulations and make it difficult and expensive to build rental housing. Thank you for the opportunity to testify virtually today and for your continued leadership on this important issue. I look forward to answering your questions. Thank you so much, miss schuetz for your testimony. Ill start my question off with miss hill. Many renters who lost income due to the covid crisis have turned to credit cards and even to renters who make their rent payments on time. There have been a concerning trend of relying on credit cards to do so. Ziko, a digital rent payment platform reported 30 increase of tenants using credit cards to pay rent in april, compared to the month prior, while paying rent with a credit card may help renters avoid eviction in the shortterm, it could lead to them facing high Interest Rates and deeper debt and could impact their credit in the longterm. Research has shown that people of color are more likely to struggle with credit invisibility and lower credit scores. What other adverse financial might tenants face if they resort to paying for rent with credit cards and can you speak to the additional interest that renters might inquire while doing so . Yes, thank you for that question. You know, in louisiana we deal with a very Large Population of our community that is significantly underbanked, often times folks may not have access to traditional lines of credit or to a bank account. And all of these issues are further exacerbating covid19 on their ability to pay rent. So were working in community with many people who have lost jobs and income because they stay home, as we were all directed to do, in order to protect themselves and everyone else. So we do have some concern about this scenario that youve raised. When that option is available for people, we know that often times, for people who are very low income, 0 are or for our africanamerican and Latinx Community members theyre subject to some of these predatory Interest Rates when it comes to credit cards or credit in order to pay rent. So the concern that we have is really that these effects will snowball that theyll use alternative methods to pay rent and the vehicle becomes more debt to incur. At that point people are more likely to lose their homes. We actually through our prevention work, work with home owners to pay mortgages and the number one threat that we see to those who come to us for the foreclosure prevention Counsel Services is some sort of high interest debt that they took on in order to help them in the shortterm meet those mortgage payments, and then what we know is that those payments lead to the debt spiraling out of control. So theres a very real risk of people being forced into homelessness because theyre having to find alternative methods to pay the rent costs. It sounds like spiraling effect of getting deeper and deeper into debt. Thank you for that. Let me about to miss olivia. My hometown of st. Louis, missouri has already experiencing a rental affordability crisis before the pandemic, with the National Shortage of seven million apartments that are affordable and available to extremely low income renters. Some of the hardest hit renter households of low income likely had little savings even before the pandemic, since rental costs ate up most of their paycheck. Low income households are also more likely to work in the industry where job losses related to the pandemic have been particularly severe. Considering this crisis, what were the longterm impacts be for renters . Thank you so much, sir, for that question. You know, in my written testimony, you can see we provide quite a bit of data around housing instability and homelessness and what we really are concerned about is a large inflow of people into the Homeless Services that is already overburdened and cant serve all the people who already need housing and serve through that system. We know that most people who are experiencing homelessness are at that extremely low income level of 0 to 30 of Median Income. So we can see that through my testimony, were suggesting that were quite deliberate and you all were actually quite deliberate in the design of the emergency rental Assistance Program for good reason because we want today make sure that people in the worst situations are or who are most likely to become homeless are prioritized for assistance and that we are stopping evictions for all of the people that we can stop evictions for. Because even if those families dont become homeless, you can see through Matthew Desmond and other peoples research tp leads to longterm housing ability and spiraling over the longterm. If we do nothing now, we will see increased homelessness and increased housing instability that well have to deal with down the road. Thank you so much for that response. My time has expired and i now recognize the distinguished Ranking Member for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Again, i appreciate you holding this hearing. My first question is for dr. Scheulz. Can you explain what the current data says about renters impacted by covid19 . Yes, thank you. We have partial data on how renters are responding to this, so the most widely cited survey is by the National MultiFamily Housing council. Theyve been reporting information provided from relatively large apartment owners through the Software Companies that process their rent. So for the set of apartments that fall into their sample. 80 were able to make a partial rent payment as of the beginning of june so weve seen pretty consistently, 70 to 80 of households making some payment. There are a couple of things to keep in mind with that. The smaller properties run by nonprofessional owners are not represented in that because they dont use these Software Companies to report. The other thing weve noticed is more people are making payments over the course of the month so often people cant pay at the beginning of the month and paying a month or two late. In particular we saw this in the first month because people were waiting for their stimulus checks and extended Unemployment Insurance. So most renters are still making payments. Thank you. Given our admitted blind spot on that policy how effective do you think that hud would be in administering a National Rental Assistance Program . I think the question is whether rental assistance is going to be provided through existing mechanisms. So in the short run its easier to put more funding into an existing program that already has an administrative infrastructure. So continuing to send out checks to people who get it, the harder thing is likely to start up something new to the extent that we have to reach out to landlord who havent worked with hud or providing through different mechanisms. Getting a new program up and running in a crisis situation is harder than using existing mechanisms is easiest and economists always say if we give people cash we prefer to because cash is fungible. And replacing income lost to direct payments to a household is likely effective. Thank you, that leads into my next question. Dr. Schuetz, is there anything in the cares act that helps renters make their payments . What was most effective and are there any troubling signs that might cause the rental crisis to become more serious than any of the data that youve seen . We have only kind of indirect evidence on how households are able to continue making payments, but this trend of people picking up their payments as the stimulus checks and Unemployment Insurance rolled out, those have been very effective in helping people stay currently. So households who are receiving Financial Assistance, thats really helped stabilize them to a greater extent than we expect expected. I would say that when the money runs out. The stimulus with a onetime check and expanded Unemployment Insurance has a timeline, there is a concern that when these run out, that households are likely to be in trouble if they have not gone back to work. Of course, the uncertainty, when the labor market recovers, how many of these people will be able to go back to work, to resume their full number of hours. Obviously, the point of this is to provide enough assistance to bridge people until the larger economy recovers. We simply dont know when thats going to happen. Thank you. One last question because you talked about land use policy. Are there things that you would recommend that on land use policy that congress could do that it would make apartments more affordable because those things are driving up rent . This is a longer term issue, but, yes. The federal government should be thinking about how it can incentivize local governments to allow more housing, particularly close to jobs and Transportation Centers and in particular, local land use is heavily prejudiced against multifamily buildings and the majority of housing, encouraging governments to build rental housing will bring down the costs and make it possible for more people to find places to live. Thats not necessarily a quick fix, but as said, if we want a more functioning Housing Market we have to deal with the comply constraints. Thank you, you know, i think its important to say that we are all committed, both sides of the aisle, to Racial Justice and equality and so, i know we have a lot of work to do in housing and housing policy. I look forward to working with chairman clay Going Forward and the democrats and republicans on those issues. I yield back, mr. Chairman. Thank you. The gentleman from ohio yields back. I now recognize the chairwoman of the full Financial Services committee, miss waters, for five minutes. Thank you very much, mr. Clay. Id like to direct the question to jennifer schuetz. Im pleased you testified today especially about smaller landlords. Ive been worried about the landlords who are basically mom and pops. And you testified that they own nearly half of all rental units, 22. 7 Million Units and then you contrasted that and its estimated that you have 1 million business entity landlords own a little over half of the rental units in the United States. So, these smaller landlords, you say, are more likely to have renters who are unable to pay the rent due to the pandemic. Im worried that even with the heroes act, if were successful, and i think we can be, in getting the 100 billion that we have been working on, i dont know how long its going to take to get the system up by which we could get that rental assistance to the landlords to benefit those renters. So, what do you think will happen if it takes three months to get the systems going up, particularly in some of the states that have may have more difficulty identifying which entity of government will be responsible for doing the implementation of the landlord, of the assistance that were directing toward the landlords . And what will these small mom and pops do if they have to wait another three or four months before they can get their rental payments . Thank you for that question. Mom and pop landlords are going to be the most impacted. Many of them own small properties, a Single Family house or two to four family house, so having even one tenant in a two family house who cant pay rent means that is gone. And makes it difficult for payments down the line. We know a lot of small mom and pops have mortgages, and in case they have a year to forebear on the mortgage payments, but many owners of the rental properties do not have federally backed mortgages so the mortgage payment is still due. In addition to that, property taxes are often a fairly substantial expense so local governments are facing very difficult Budget Constraints at the moment. Any fallback in property taxes are going to hurt local governments ability to pay for essential public services. We dont know entirely what is likely to happen, but we suspect that many of the smaller landlords may be forced to sell their property if they dont have income coming in, three months to forego your mortgage payment is enough to get new trouble. And so there may actually be a number of these smaller properties that wind up going on the market. Thats potentially a threat, and many of relatively low rent properties. If they get bought by home owners who take them out of the rental stock or by investors who choose to raise the rent, this could be a permanent loss of Affordable Housing. Do you think perhaps even with thee or four months to get that rental payment that there would be a lot of evictions where the small landlords could get desperate and say, i cant go along with this any longer, i know you people are saying that youre going to, you know, get the assistance to us, but i just cant wait any longer, it hasnt happened. Do you think there will be a whole rash of evictions . My understanding is that local governments are expecting to have a lot of eviction filings when the moratorium ends. Many of those are delayed at the moment in part because the Court Systems are shut down so theyre not processing cases filed. But its quite possible that a number of landlords started proceedings. The other threat is if the landlord cant sell the building because they cant make the payment then the new earn 0 of the building may also move forward so its definitely a possibility. Well, im worried about the small landlords and were working very hard to try and ensure that we have the kind of implementation of the 100 billion so that the landlords and the renters dont have to wait too long. Because im worried that if they all have to wait too long, not only will we have landlords who will evict them or as you said, as they sell the properties, they think it will cause a lot of action on the street with a lot of unhappy people out there, if theyre not able to keep their units and theyre being evicted. Theres certainly a potential. Thank you, and i yield back the balance of my time. And the chairwoman yields back. I now recognize the gentleman from florida, mr. Posy. Five minutes. Thank you very much, mr. Chairman. And mr. Ranking member, i appreciate both of you bringing the challenges our renters face in this pandemic that were enduring now. As we move forward, i think we should consider the best way to address this hardship and to do it consistent with the principles and approaching that weve been providing assistance in other areas successfully. The Paycheck Protection Program is a good model that exists in as much its the existing program to provide in a timely way to the crisis. And we should resist temptation of existing problems or even new programs to respond to the crisis. General programs extensions and new programs should be regular order, i believe, and not emergency legislation. I believe that this kind of economic crisis calls for us to be compassionate with the ability of our families to met their rent and with those principles in mind i believe we might Work Together to provide rent r rental assistance through the section 8 program, a limited and temporary Program Expansion thats means tested on a basis of an individual or familiess ability to pay within the window of the covid19 crisis. This allows a direct grant to disadvantaged renters to pay rent in place, within the home he currently occupies. Such assistance should be limited, obviously, to the time period of the crisis and be subject to expedited application and approval process. I question the panelists, whether you think the idea that i just described would address the challenges that the renters face in the current pandemic. Im happy to start and my fellow panelists can come in behind me. I would say, as i mentioned in my testimony, we think its really important to have a comprehensive approach here to address short, medium and longer term needs. Depending on the specific circumstances of various households and families, we know that some folks, as was mentioned earlier, will be continuing to pay the rent by or not paying utilities, by using credit cards and not paying utilities. So we have folks who are in Domestic Violence situations. Theres a lot of different situations that we need to contemplate so i would suggest that we are looking at this as a package, that includes substantial emergency rental assistance components, in addition to additional vouchers for folks who need longer term assistance and that cant stabilize with only short or medium term assistance. I would also add that in terms of the individuals who require rental assistance in connection to the pandemic, the pandemic containment efforts, Economic Impacts, that were looking at a number of individuals that are in the socalled missing affordability, 80 ami range. And i believe that weve seen that individuals in that have been impacted directly by covid and have been either put on furlough or have been terminated as a result of layoffs. And so, one of the elements that the emergency rental system structure provides, is ability to score those up and those typically who arent covered under the current section 8 program. And congressman posy, i would point you to a may 4, 2020 letter signed by industry organizations, consumer groups and housing advocates that layout the principles. Successful rental Assistance Program in response to covid and i would venture to say that the emergency rental assistance act is a vehicle that is moving, thats included in the heroes act leverages in existing program. But to the extent that expansion of section 8 or homes or other programs get to the same outcome. I think you would find a number of stakeholders would support that approach. I think the essence of the advocacy is to ensure that this money gets out. Mr. Chairman, i yield back my time. The gentleman from florida yields back. Id now recognize the gentleman from missouri, mr. Cleaver, for five minutes. Please unmute. Mr. Chairman, thank you, chairman stivers, and chair of our overall committee, chairman waters for allowing this takings place because in the back drop of social justice and civil rights happening on the front burner of the american system so were seeing americans of all races, all creeds, demanding an end to systemic institutionalized racism. I address the protesters here, about 5,000. I walked out, mr. Chairman, to address them and almost went into tears because having been in my first civil rights march at age of 15 down in texas this is the first time i had seen a crowd like this of about 55, maybe 60 of the participants were white. The rest were black and brown. In the old Civil Rights Movement youd have, for example, the president of notre dame, a priest walking with Martin Luther king or Shuttl Shuttl shuttlesworth, protection. These people there were saying they want change and frankly, i think that our committee, your chairmanship in this committee deals with change perhaps more than any other committee, not and including judiciary, because housing is right at the core of change and also one of the principle causes for the pain. One of the things that i would like our panel to address is, you know, we have 100,000 100 million in the heroes act and im wondering if you believe that we that there are i dont know if youve read the bill or know anything about it, but there are ways of dealing with that 100 billion in terms of assistance than what we might have recorded in the heroes act. Any or all of you. Well, i would just say that this is, from our perspective, and you know, from someone who served communities that are, you know, multiracial and with some pretty high poverty levels across the state of louisiana, its clear to us that this rental assistance to going to be critical in order for people to be able to recover and fully participate in with less of their communities after this pandemic ends. We know that people are struggling to pay the rent and that they need this cash assistance in order to be able to do so. Coming from a place, louisiana, that also has very few tenant protections, we see this as an opportunity to tie that assistance to tenant protections, because its likely or proposed that the rental assistance is really lan lord assistance, right . It goes to landlords to help them cover the cost of the rents that theyre missing. So if were going to make a massive investment in supporting landlords, then i would like to see participating landlords act to signed lease addendums that provide some protection to tenants that are missing in louisianas landlord tenant law, things like a 14 day right, antiretaliation protection. I live in a state, in louisiana where its perfectly lawful for lan lords to retaliate against tenants and kick tenants out who request things like repairs. Having things tied to the money would be especially helpful for louisiana. Im glad to hear you say that because i intent to talk with chairwoman waters and chairman clay about some other changes along the lines of what youre saying, because we have a Senior Citizens facility in kansas city where hud guaranteed the lone to Missouri Housing Development Corporation so the owners live out of the state. People are the temperature is now offering every day here in the mid 90s. No air conditioning, the air conditioning went out and there are all kind of problems. You know, we need to do something along the lines of what you would saying, but maybe they ought to be a part of hud regulations. I mean, hud is guaranteeing, guaranteeing change, bad ownership of a Seniors Housing project. And my time is up i have a lot but thank you for, thank you, mr. Chairman. Im sorry, time. Thank you, mr. Cleaver. And now we will. Let me remind members to keep their cameras on so we can see you in the main screen and then be able to recognize you. At this time id like to okay. Youre recognized for five minutes. Thank you, appreciate that, mr. Chairman. Hopefully, i think you can see me as well. So really wanted to take a statement more than anything and you yield back. I do appreciate the conversation, this is something that is critical to so many communities, rural areas, suburban areas, urban areas and we do need to make sure that there is adequate housing stock. Would i also, having been involved in Family Business in construction for now three generations, we also know the effects that oftentimes local ordinances and requirements and things like that, what kind of costs might be added to the Construction Side of things and that of course, impacts affordability. So, i hope in this conversation we are looking not just at not just at a Government Program to help with dollars getting sent to either the renter or the provider of the housing and those kinds of things, but we also have that discussion about how do we make sure that Affordable Housing is truly affordable on the Construction Side and on the availability side as well. So, with that, i am im just going it yield back. So i appreciate the opportunity to be on today. And i thank the gentleman for the yielding back, and for your brevity. Let me recognize the gentle woman from ohio, miss beatty, for five minutes, and please, unmute. Unmute, ms. Beatty. Thank you. Can you hear me now . Thank you so much to our chairman and to our Ranking Member and to all of those who were participating in our new format of testifying. Ive certainly enjoyed hearing your testimony and as we talk about housing, it is very clear that we are on a cliff. Evictions are on a cliff. And when you look at who is on the ledge of that cliff, were looking at individuals who look like me. Were looking at those individuals who might be whomless. When we think about where we are in the nest of this nation, whether its covid19, as our chairman talked about in his Opening Statements and when we look at the death rates in proportion to what africanamericans in particular represent in this nation, and certainly those disparities are also here in my district, so when i think about who is at risk, the least of us are at risk. When i think about minority population, i think about those who are at risk because we are at an Inflection Point in this country with regard to diversity and inclusion, with racial biases and racism. I just introduced a resolution that said racism is a National Crisis and housing was one of the first things, mr. Chairman, that i listed in it when we talk about that. Let me make a quick statement and then i have two questions id like to address to the panel. And the question will be centered around how are these long existing gaps affected by covid19 and how does congress ensure that they do not widen the gap even further and how do we close them as it relates to housing for miss hill . And before you start to answer that, let me just remind you something that my staff shared with me in an article that was written in 1966 in the nation magazine where Martin Luther king, jr. Said, slums with hundreds of thousands of living units are not eradicated as easily as lunch counters or buses or integrated or jobs and jobs are harder to create than voting rolls. So when you think of chatle sla slavery was abolished, but the transforming slaves into citizens was omitted. So hes talking about economic gestures. Hes talking about it as we look at Wealth Creation or the lack of it and langley talking about housing. Where do we go from here . Well start with you, miss hill. Well, thank you so much for the question and it resonates very deeply with me and i think whats most important is that we have to seize this opportunity to go somewhere, right . We know that this conversation is not new. We know that it has happened and been happening. It is continuing to happen now. So we have to seize the opportunity, right . We knew from the Current Commission report, you know, around the same time, that youre mentioning, representative beatty, that we need the country to do something and those changes were not made. Its time now to act upon those promises and really to honor the legacy of dr. King and all of those who worked with him for this kind of justice that youre referring to. And so, in louisiana, and across the country, black and brown households were impacted by the Affordable Housing crisis, we know now that black women are disproportionately impacted by rates across the country, as well as in new orleans and the research has helped to highlight the problem. In new orleans, the same majority black neighborhoods with the rates that are much higher than the National Average are hit hardest by covid19 in our city. And so there has to be a comprehensive package that seeks to redress these ongoing disparities, the cash rental assistance is incredibly important. And rental assistance that is tied to protections for tenants is also important. Increased support for ho Homelessness Prevention, cut evictions in new orleans, for example, by half. And so, there really is a variety of options available and were so thankful for your leadership, this subcommittee leadership on these issues and in moving this conversation forward. Thank you, an in my few seconds later, to anyone who wants to answer, as we know, the cares act Eviction Moratorium and prohibition and late fees for nonpayment will expire next month july 25th with a regard high unemployment numbers which we learned is going to be even higher. Where do we go from now when renters are looking at an eviction, on that eviction cliff july 31st . What do we do to protect those renters when the cares expire and the rent becomes due . Would anybody else like to make a comment on that . Yes, id be happy to comment quickly on that. Thats why its so important for us to get emergency rental assistance to be an i believe to do homelessness and eviction prevention for those renters that are on that cliff that you are describing, but its also why we need to take new approaches to this emergency rental Assistance Program. And we have to use a Racial Justice and equity approach. We need to ensure that were targeting highly impacted neighborhoods and communities. So, there are lots of things that folks can do. Thank you so much for that question. Its incredibly important. Thank you, my time is up and i yield back, mr. Chair. The gentle woman yields back and at this time we recognize the gentleman from colorado, mr. Tipton. Thank you, mr. Chairman and thank you for the hearing. Id like to be able to associate myself with we do need to be watching some regulatory hurdles that impeding increasing the cost of Affordable Housing and also recognition is that a lot of this is impacted at the local level in terms of where they will allow Affordable Housing to be wed like to be able to start with dr. Schuetz and thank you for being before our panel today. I want today follow up. During our last panel, you said there were debt obligation, maintenance obligations during the crisis. And the Property Owners are required to Carry Forward with obligations during the crisis. Thank you for that question. Yes, Property Owners still have to maintain their properties. The temporary forebearance applies to half of Property Owners so that will help. Landlords who have had a mortgage thats federally backed will have extra time to pay that off and that allows them to pass along savings to their tenants, but the mortgage is not the only thing they owe. In particular we worry about them not being able to pay their property tax toss local governments. Were seeing a shortfall in a number of their Revenue Sources since things like sales and hospitality taxes. One of the other concerns is just basically paying the utilities, so water and sewer have to keep running, you know, utilities for the property overall, so there are things that landlords have to pay, whether the rent is coming and or not. If theyre not getting enough cash in order to do that some of them may need to put their buildings up for sale so thats definitely a concern. So, in addition to that obviously, and air conditioning, heating goes out, pretty much the obligation of landlords to be able to affect that so its important that they receive as much rent as possible. Yes, and again, thinking about the scale of buildings that are most vulnerable. If theres a 200 unit building and a few tenants cant make payment and the landlord is getting income from the building, and half the rental units in the u. S. , those are dependent on the tenants having cash to be able to pay that. We do know that lan lord are often making negotiations with tenan tenants, if they have lost hours and can make a partial payment, most landlords want to have someone in the unit rather than flip units. If you evict, and most replacing the income to renters either through Unemployment Insurance or some other method, allowed making some payments. For some landlords it may be happen to have some small grants perhaps through the local government to help them maintain viability. Can i. Can you during your testimony you noted temporary Eviction Moratorium could be helpful in the longterm and could help household would you speak to that a little bit more . Sure. We worry that if households are not paying rent, but theres a balance of the rent is accruing, at some point that has to be paid off or renegotiated with the landlord. Both renters on thin financial margins and so, if theyre out of work for a month or two months, even when they get their job back, they can get current on their payments, theres a past due balance so thats similar to putting your rent on a credit card payment. It postpones it until the future, but at some point the bill comes due and the assets to pay that off. I appreciate the answer to that. And also appreciate the recognition in terms of the landlords that are out and the impacts its having on them. I think we all join wanting to mi mick make sure that people have a roof over their head and people need to be able to serviced as well. Wed like to be able to jump in the little time that we have left. During the last cycle appropriated 290 million to the esg program under the cares act. That increased by about 4 billion in spending. Under t under the heros act, more do they have the cash to be able to absorb 299 increase particularly given the time . Im not familiar enough with the administrations program to know how the increase in funding would work. Id be happy to take that given that was my office when i was at the department of housing and urban development if i can can i do that, mr. Clay . Yes, yes. Please, please provide us with that information. Okay. So i think of course, we are always right, as members. Government, to Pay Attention to capacity and you are right the 290 Million Dollars was the normal esg allocation in any given year. But we need to, one, make sure that efg recipients have the guidance and support at that they need to effectively design and effectively implement these types of programs so i would first encourage hud to get the esg covid funding under the cares act guidance out the door as quickly as possible. I would also say that we can provide a Technical Assistance resources through these funds that can support communities to really focus on the strategies that work and ensure that they have the capacity they need to administer these funds. We need to make sure that hud is appropriately staffed to monitor these programs. I know when i ran hprp which took a 200 it was 160 Million Dollars at the time to 1. 5 billion behind Term Employees to do monitoring and that was incredibly important, but i think the most important thing that i want to say back about this particular issue is that efg grantees have always risen to the challenge and i hope that that is not while we need to Pay Attention to, i wouldnt want that to be a barrier to providing really important emergency rental assistance to communities. The gentleman from colorado yields back. And now we recognize the gentleman from texas, mr. Green. Five minutes and please, unmute, mr. Green. Thank you for the reminder, mr. Chairman, thank you for your hearing as well. Thank the Ranking Member. Thank the chair of the full committee. Thank all persons who have had any hand in protecting this hearing. This important hearing. Mr. Chairman, as you and i know the Fair Housing Act of 1968 passed congress within weeks of the assassination, in fact days of the assassination of dr. Martin luther king. It did not end in d housing just as having laws what the speed limit is prevents people from speeding. Enforcement, enforcement still is much needed even today because discrimination exists today. Miss hill, i think youve made points on this as well as others and discrimination in housing. We know during this time of the pandemic, the president has done some things that were unkind. He has made statements about the chinese virus and this is caused persons who are of asian ancestry to be discriminated against. I did a speech on the floor of the house where in i talked about this level of discrimination. Persons trying to seek lodging being discriminated against, but we also know over 60 of the people experiencing homelessness in America Today are black and latinx and that over 4 million fair housing violations are occurring against members of protected classes. So during that time of pandemic, its exceedingly important that we have enforcement. Enforcement in terms of intake, education, and investigation as relates to the complaints that are going to be called to our attention with reference to discrimination in housing. It does happen and we need to make sure that we protect people. Im honored to say that the chairwoman of the full committee, the honorable Maxine Waters is a cosponsor, original cosponsor of the fair housing emergency act. These are funds allocated to deal with the invidious d discrimination that is a result of the coronavirus. I would ask you, miss hill, do you believe its necessary for us to have this emergency enforcement power and the ability to investigate and take action against those who is it ill deal in hate, some of it emanating from the highest office in the land as a result of comments that are being made boy the president of the United States of america . Your thoughts, miss hill, please. Thank you so much for that, for that question, representative green. And absolutely, yes. These programs and the resources that you mentioned are incredibly important and perhaps now more so than ever. Unfortunately, and it may be counter intuitive, but we know from experience that complaints often go up during emergencies. When families have lost income and are at risk of losing their homes, theyre really at their most vulnerable and thats even more true now when homelessness might mean increased exposure to the potentially deadly coronavirus. Unfortunately, there are Housing Providers who we know will take advantage of this precarious situation that many tenants are in. We saw rampant discrimination against black new orleanions. And harassment during the pandemic. There are reports of some landlords looking to capitalize on the lack of ability of some of their tenants to pay rent. So we are hearing reports of landlords speaking to exchange sexual favors for rent with some of their vulnerable tenants having difficulty making payments. Were hearing reports from Domestic Violence survivors, victimized further by landlords not following the law. Working with a woman who survived Domestic Violence and went to the landlord to be moved per the Louisiana State violence against womens act and told that she would have to pay out the remaining months of her lease about of she could be granted permission to move. So we know an increase in fair housing funds would be essential to ensure that we can continue to investigate these cases and ensure that families are protected under the Fair Housing Act. Thank you, mr. Chairman, i yield back the time i do not. Thank you, mr. Green, at this time well recognize the gentleman from tennessee, mr. Rose. Thank you, chairman clay and Ranking Member stivers and our panelists testifying today. We appreciate you being available to talk about this important issue. Were currently navigating difficult times and folks are having to make difficult decisions regarding their finances, with job losses stemming from the economic down turn related to covid19, there are concerns that renters had trouble meeting their monthly rent payment. This is building on mr. Tiptons question about the negative effects of failure of tenants to make their rent payment. Can you talk about the overall Ripple Effect and negative externality such as local jobs and paying local property taxes . There. Schuetz. Yes, thank you for that. Were concerned where rent payments go further down the line and when those are gone available. So many landlords will still have to pay a mortgage and if they dont property taxes are obviously, one of the high items on the list landlords have to pay and local governments are having a difficult time at the moment. Theyve lost sales taxes, incomes have dropped. So theyre facing a squeeze on the budget side at the same time theyre asked to provide extra services to constituents. So, failure to pay property taxes, inability to pay property taxes will hurt. There are also jobs relate today that, and theyre having more on site staff and housekeeping staff. Those are typically not high wage jobs, but people rely on that for their income. Most of the smaller landlords dont have inhouse staff, but they hire outside contractors particularly for maintenance, plumbers and electricians, so, these are all downstream payments that could be threatened if payments dry up. You know, ive not seen information on how Rural Communities are doing relative to urban areas with repayment, but we know some of the rural areas that have Food Processing plants are seeing higher rates of infections and thats likely to put stress on Public Health systems as well as their local public finance. Thank you. I know ive said it before we we have a responsibility in the congress to ensure that dollars spent by the federal government are spent wisely, efficiently and for the intended purposes. And following from that, im hesitant to say that 100 billion in new spending that would more than double huds annual budget achieves that. It is our role to ensure that we are being prudent and it does no good to the American People to make a bloated false promise of assistance that neve actually comes. We need smarter, more innovative, localized solutions than the ones we are discussing today. Dr. Schuelz said that the regulations made it difficult for localities around the country to build apartment buildings, contributing to the lack of availability of an Affordable Housing. Where do you find restriction of available housing the most . The short answer almost everywhere. Almost every local government has zoning with single detached houses relative to multifamily buildings. Multifamily buildings have most of our purpose built housing and in effect every local government in the country is biased against building rental housing. And we have find this consistently across the country. So this is true for large cities, true for suburbs, this is true for Rural Communities. We find a higher level of overall regulation in many of the coastal metropolitan areas. But the suburbs in dallas and detroit are every bit of restrictive of apartment buildings as in san francisco. So this is a National Problem that we have made it hard to build. Local communities have different kinds of barriers, but almost every community has some kind of barrier to housing, and restrictions on manufactured housing generally one of the lowest cost ways to create housing in smaller communities. Isnt it true though if we provide more than double the funds for hud, most of these funds are going to go to renters, so in the high cost cities, is that a fair statement . The per household subsidy is much higher in high cost cities because of the way the formula works. The majority of huds rental assistance is going to people in large populated places and where the cost of housing is higher. Thanks, chairman clay and i yield back. The gentleman from tennessee yields back and i now recognize the gentleman from Washington State. Mr. Hekt for five minutes. Please unmute. Can you hear me now . Yes, thank you. Thank you, mr. Chairman and Ranking Member and madam chairwoman so very, very much for holding a hearing on this important topic. As many of you have heard me describe before i tend to have a frame work of shelter especially in the context of the covid crisis, its a threelegged stool and i want to ask them to response, disabuse or amplify. Any other issue in their life is not going to be dealt with whether its unemployment, substance abuse. You dont successfully deal with those things while youre sleeping under a bridge. Thats why im so passionate about 100 billion that was that was in our legislation and included cures act. And it is not just me. Mr. Chairman, with your permission i ask unanimous consent to submit a letter for the record that has 640 signatures to it and might i add this is not a petition. Those signatures represent 640 different organizations nationally, who have come together and united in a very Diverse Coalition in support of our rental release. Mr. Chairman . Without objection the letter we submitted. Finally, of course is the issue of the missing millions of home so eloquently alluded to. 7. 37. 5 million. Let us remember this. When you have a supply restriction, you have increase occupancy, which leads to increased rents which leads to increased cost burdens which of course wear expensive at historic levels which increases homelessness. We simply have to build more Housing Units, especially Affordable Housing units in this country. It is not just for the benefit of the individuals that need it. Its for the benefit of this entire country because i want to remind you that every recession and modern history, save the last one, has been let out of my Housing Construction activity, and we are not doing it and were not doing at a rate that continue to accumulate a housing unit deficit on an annual basis. We need more Housing Units especially Affordable Housing units. I guess i would like to start with ms. Oliva and ask you, those are my three legs. Support for homeowners, suppot for renters, and support for increased housing unit construction. Can you offer of it or disabuse me or amplify any component of it that you think bears highlighting . Sure. Thank you so much for that question. I spend a lot of time in your state working in king county so i know quite a bit about the work that is being done throughout the state. I would say my expertise is not in homeownership. Its really Round Rental Housing for people who are extremely low income and experiencing homelessness. So i wouldnt disabuse you of any of the three legs of your stool, what he would say and then i talk about in my testimony is we really need to target the most in need families and households first to ensure that we are not creating our situation, especially within the home was services system. And specifically to covid19, we are seeing so vividly that housing is healthcare. And to the extent we are prioritizing folks without housing and folks were potentially going to lose their housing, i think thats an incredibly important component of the Emergency Assistance and the full housing complements short medium and longterm options that are included in the heroes act. A quick followup if i may. One of the earlier speakers alluded to the 100 million as bloated it frankly i find that sad. I think a perfectly legitimate question to be raised is can we effectively, efficiently get that amount of money out . Because its large. But is it bloated compared to the need . I dont think so. I believe that we need to fully respond to this crisis so that we dont have lasting longterm impacts in the way we are starting to see now. Thank you. I yield back. The gentleman from washington yields back, and we recognize the gentleman from wisconsin, mr. Style, for five minutes. Thank you very much, chairman clay, Ranking Member stivers and chair waters for pulling together todays in which is honorably important topic, the events of the last few weeks, i think it refocus our attention on some of the structural barriers to opportunity. Todays hearing in particular is about how covid impacting peoples housing in particular, those of low and moderate income as well as underrepresented minority groups. I want to die that on this. Id like to ask a question of you, ms. Schuetz, regarding the temporary or proposed extension of the temporary moratorium on evictions. You have talked about this and i read your testimony that was put forward. But i would like you to dive in for the period you noted very well the impact of potential extension as set forth by the heroes act that passed the house, what that would be in real terms on mom and pop landlords. Could you also, on what role that may play at city and state municipal Level Resources and how that would play out in state and local budgets, if the proposal that ultimately passed the house in the heroes act was fully implement it . Sure. Yes, its definitely a concern for local governments who are really siding where evictions are likely to be processed. Communities across the country have a variety of different ways of dealing with evictions. New york city has a Housing Court which says nothing but handle landlord tenant issues and evictions. But for many other places particularly smaller committees this once to the General Court system. Many of the Court Systems have been close down or let me if i can, let me just refocus a question more tailored. In your commentary in particular on landlords where they may be uniquely financially impacted, would they have challenges in paying their property taxes which will and packs state and municipal governments . Many of them will have difficulty with it. Property taxes are a substantial component for those are going to be due to penny on the local budget cycle, but if they dont have income they may not be able to pay that. That would impact the local budgets. Thank you. Let me shift gears slightly. One of the things we saw congress to out of the gate was, came in with a sledgehammer theres reason to do that at the beginning of the crisis. As we looked now and i think theres a real opportunity of the sledgehammer [inaudible] to those who need it most, while preventing being blanketed across all individuals in the United States. In particular as you have reviewed the potential expansion of the moratorium put forth in the heroes act, could you comment on the impact that would have . It appears that [inaudible] who are impacted by the coronavirus through no fault of their own. But would also be available to more higher income individuals of those who have not had the same negative impact in financial situation due to the coronavirus . I dont know exactly how this would work, plant with different incomes. In part what we, they continue paying rent has been depend on the expanded Unemployment Insurance and the stimulus checks which are going to run out. One of the difficulties of targeting with a scalpel at the moment is the uncertainty about how quickly the labor market will recover. Its great to see. Great to see my colleagues and great to see the wonderful panelist. Again, here in san diego as listed earlier a ticket spent on quickly the economy will recover. I think they cant and will not recover as quickly as some people think especially in the tourist industry because of the fear of covid19, the virus. I do have to say one thing. And it sticks in my craw every time. I keeping about these highcost areas and how some people from some state say why do we spend so much on a high cost id like to let everyone come in california, more money the federal government the near state that doesnt come back to it. We are a donor state, not every city states of some of these people from the reducing receiving states love to the rock. A look at how much money they receive compared to california and i say take a look at the facts next thing before you start throwing rocks, please. I do want to talk a little bit about corporate landlords versus momandpop landlords. The reality is that corporate landlords i think a better capitalize to be able to withstand some of these problems that are are already here and will be coming as a tsunami versus momandpop. What can momandpop landlords deal with a lot of the tenets are not can you be able pay the rents . With some like to comment on that, please . Sure. Im happy to start. I think you bring up a very excellent point with regards to smaller landlords because ms. Schuetz said in her testimony, smaller landlords, smaller Property Owners disproportionally provide housing to those on the front lines most at risk of being infected by covid. You also have to have the wherewithal to withstand shocks such as mental landlords are experiencing. We spoke to a small landlord in Washington State in Thurston County who takes naturally Affordable Housing and presented as affordable. She reported delinquency of rent as of april 9 was 4 across her portfolio. 12 as of may 9 across her portfolio, and 32 as of june 9 across her portfolio. Anecdotal data points are suggesting the smaller landlords not only have the wherewithal to a standard this challenge, but are also disproportionally experiencing the brunt of the crisis of nonpayment of rent. I would also just add that from municipal perspective, and i know there been a number of questions about the ability for the 100 billion emergency rental assistance to the bsg system. I think its actually quite exciting to see the number of cities including san diego that of established rental Assistance Programs to respond to the need. The challenge is as many of us know, the resource isnt there to serve the need. We spoke to the city of tacoma, washington, and the reported they received over 700 applications the day it opened up their rental Assistance Program. Its become a lottery system. These communities, minutes probably in states dont have adequate resources to provide funding for those folks impacted by covid19 here i just say that to say yes, we fully agree with your point with regards to smaller landlords bearing the brunt, and want to amplify the fact that there are limited scarce Resources Available to ensure and protect those landlords from potential financial challenges here in the coming months. Again, if someone else wants to comment on that, because the truth of the matter is i know in my own district they have a number of people who have worked very, very hard to great a few units, thats what they rely on for their retirement. They are not well prepared to weather the storm. If it continues. A lot of people have been able to pay their rent because of Unemployment Insurance, because of the stimulus checks that they are going to run out. If we dont have the assistance, what are these small landlords going to do . They rely on this money for retirement. How can we help them . Would anyone else on the panel like to comment on this . Sure. I will say just quickly, i think its worth considering some funds that landlords can apply for to help supplement their expenses and cover the cost of this. Particularly for momandpop landlords with what the herbal line to be relatively low. So complicated programs are a deterrent even to requesting help. The big corporate landlords have attorneys and accountants and so they can fill out applications for things but for mom and pops if you want to get funny to them we need to make this pretty acceptable. I would totally agree with that and i would also just add that we need to make sure that community so receive these funds are doing at we specifically to the small landlords so that they can make sure anybody who is one of their tenets was behind in rent is accessing this resource to get them whole. The gentleman from california is time has expired. We now recognize the gentleman from florida, mr. Lawson. I think i am on mute. Then you hear me . We can hear you. Go right ahead. This question is for ms. Oliva. Interested groups of raise concern that emergency rental assistance and rental market stabilization act that was included in the heroes act would not provide rental assistance to higher income people who lost their job due to the pandemic. Since the former income would be too high to qualify for the program. Could you please explain how these people qualify under the program . I would be happy to. Thank you for that question because i think its an important one. The program as fast in the heroes act actually contemplates excited that scenario as past in a in a couple different. This target certain amount of the funding to people who are extremely low income and very low in, and then it actually allows communities the flexibility to go up to about 120 of area Median Income with 30 of the funds if i remember correctly. But it also makes a change and makes a specific change to how eligibility is determined at the point of application for assistance. That means really is taking into account only the income that is happening right now for a household to make them eligible for assistance. Households who have lost income that mightve been higher income in the past and have lost income as a result of the Economic Impact of covid19 would, as long as they meet one of those income requirements, 30 , 50 , up to 80120 , then they would be eligible for these resources. It was specifically contemplated and addressed in the heroes act. Im trying to wrap my head around that, still trying to understand a little better, but the individual that im talking to really feels like when theyre in the program that they were left out, and so ive got to give them some assurance based on what youre telling me, according to what you just said its going to be up and maybe the chairwoman might want to comment on that because thats a big concern i have in two areas, in tallahassee and in jacksonville. They are not systematically left out of the heroes plan, am i correct . If they are at income level between zero, up to in some cases 120 of the area Median Income, they can be served through the emergency rental Assistance Program and the heroes act, but with the caveat that are specific types of targeting that are also worked into the act to ensure that people at the highest needs are prioritized. So heres a 120 of lets say [inaudible] a family or for individuals . Area Median Income is for the household. Okay. In most cases many people will not fall into that category. If they lost income due to the effects of covid19 they very well could fall into that category because the way that eligibility is determined, based on the way that the law is written, it is based on their income at the time that they are applying for assistance. It looks like maybe mike also has some thoughts on this. Okay. Thank you, congressman. Thats absolutely right. That was a major point of discussion with a number of stakeholders hinging on conversations around this policy. We were very pleased to get confirmation from the authors that the testing is as of the time of application, not some trailing [inaudible] so if youre a household at lets say 150 of area Median Income and you lose 50 of your income, you are now cost burdened. You have the opportunity to apply for and receive emergency rental assistance vouchers. Im hoping i can get this in. I have a lot of Student Housing here, and many of the owners of these complexes are saying theyre pretty much left out because with the loans and the staff that they have is they are not allowed to seek other resources in order to provide for management of their loans because if the a type of loan y sign up for. So that becomes a problem because you have a lot of complexes here that houses students and the students are not in these complexes so they are suffering and paying their mortgages. Anything in that regard . Can anyone comment on it . I would just note that the emergency rental Assistance Programs and other programs that are included in the heroes act really about supporting the individual households. So i dont think i could be wrong but it dont think the underlying financial sort of setup for the building as a whole would make any of those people are households in eligible for funding as long as they meet the requirements. The gentleman from floridas time has expired. We now will recognize the gentleman from michigan, ms. Tlaib. You have five minutes for that you check the tickets was so good to see. Thank you so much for this incredibly important issue. As someone who represents a very much frontline community, third poorest district in the country, i have seen my folks from [inaudible] talking about what is in the heroes act. I do want to uplift something i think that is really critically important. The moratorium in the city of michigan, stated mission we have a separate moratorium that is over with on friday, and one of the things i had been stressing and just for the panel to know, i know the moratoriums are just mandates, that after they are done all of it come from Student Loans to the mortgages to the water payment, all of those things over moratorium are now going to be due. My issue is we always specifically synced ok, we would do something about utility shut up, like water shut off my district. We would to specific something about winters help. Why are we looking at the fact that most of our neighbors across the country are not as blesses me of my colleagues and i. They are very much living check by check. Why are we not talking about reoccurring payments . Meeting the automatic boost degrees aqua we say we dead cards, get out 200 and epidemic because again many of them were in survival mode before the pandemic and i would ask of him hey hold ofcom you dont have to pay rent now but in if you must all of the rent will be due altogether at the same time. I want to hear from you, especially jenny schuetz, you would mention about stimulus and want to hear from you as you work with advocates on the ground. Does stimulus payments help address the issue around rent . Thanks for the question. A number of my colleagues at brookings have actually written what looks very prescient now, an argument that we should have automatic stabilizers that are tied to things like the National Unemployment rate so that rather than congress having to decide on these on a casebycase basis, that assistance directly to household or potentially to local governments, that those are tied to this national markers of economic assistance. You could do that. You could even do something that is tied to local rates, you know, the local Unemployment Rate when that goes about some level, that the payments to household directly kick in until the Unemployment Rate goes lower. So theres some very strong arguments to doing that and then theres a number of payments that have to be made would be determined by how quickly the economy recovers. Do you have any insight, ms. Oliva, like when you talk to advocates, are they pushing this idea around reoccurring payments as addressing some of these very much social needs that existed prior to the pandemic but obviously have been heightened due to it . I would say absolutely. Working in communities throughout louisiana, one of the things that is very clear to me is that louisiana is going to continue to feel the effects of the covid19 pandemic for years to come. We know that in new orleans area in particular our economy really heavily depends on tourism and hospitality jobs. The concern that we have, and that our clients have come is that while stimulus and Unemployment Insurance has been helpful, we know that folks are not being asked to return to work in what is traditionally the slowest time for those industries. So they are now going back to work and are moratorium here on june 15. We are concerned that people are going to have to catch up on the rent that they miss during the moratorium. Do you think reoccurring payments something and its be leading this conversation about how do we tackle some of these issues . Absolutely because in each of our allies means we dont just incur onetime costs. So rent, bills, those things occur on an ongoing basis at the stimulus and the unappointed money has been very helpful but in order to help people to continue to recover from this ongoing payments are certainly incredibly important. Any other panelists would like to chime in . Well, i think the Emergency Assistance act clearly provides, one of the bright spots in it is it provides catching up on rental as well as future [inaudible] thank you so much, and thank you to the chairman. I just want you all to know its not all the rent. Its utility, water. You had to give people Human Dignity and given the resources they need and let them choose what is a priority for the families so they can be able to live with the quality of life they need. Thank you so much, chairman. Thank you, ms. Tlaib and think the jump one from michigan yields back. We will now recognize that gentlewoman from iowa, ms. Axne, five minutes. Well, thank you kevin. Its great is your face faq to the witnesses for being here. That we can make this happen. Want to get right to it. In the most recent the Census Bureau more than 30 of americans had very little confidence they would be able to pay the next months rent. Those of course our folks with overwhelmingly low incomes and, in fact, in my state of iowa, every one of these wrenches makes less than 50,000. We work on the cares act and we did a treatment the Eviction Moratorium to protect those writers in federally backed properties and in in a most sts have put in broader prohibitions on evictions to keep people in their homes over the last couple of months, but as ms. Tlaib the just mentioned, and in in a ste like i have, people still have to pay the rent is always moratoriums have expired. Mine in iowa expired about two weeks ago. So ms. Oliva, i know that 70 of homeowners with mortgages backed by fannie mae or freddie mac have been provided Financial Assistance by giving forbearance and align them to delay payments until the end of their mortgage. I knew we have covered this a bit so far today but just to confirm, have we been anything similarly broad to help renters stay in their homes during this crisis . No, we dont have a specific package for renters in this crisis in the same way yet, which is why we are so excited about what is included in the heroes act. Because it does do three things. Shortterm, mediumterm and longterm options that can be used together at the local level to address needs for people who are experiencing homelessness all the way through eviction prevention. Thats why were so excited about this. Very good. Thank you. Of course i want to thank mr. Heck and chairwoman waters for the leadership and introducing the bill to provide 100 billion emergency rental assistance so im very proud to cosponsor that. But given that homeowners typically have higher incomes and more ability to absorb it during downturns like this, you worried that leaving renters or most likely have lost income during this crisis much more so than probably homeowners speed you will find the rest of the street cspan. Org. We will take you live to the u. S. Senate as they hold a short pro forma session. Part of our longterm commitment to gavel to gavel coverage of the