Please go to the website and now please enjoy the program. Good afternoon and welcome to this talking on june 14. Todays guest will be professor Elizabeth Varon and her book the armies of deliverance. We are so glad you could find us and to tell us about the institute k12 history and education so the mission is to promote knowledge and understanding of American History through other resources we also provide direct access for those amazing collection. So to find out about the collection please go to the website i am your host here. So if you want to find more about the Education Programs i also have with me from the guild learning collection for you out there in the audience your screens are off and your microphones are off. Know that thats normal so then you say how shall i ask a question . I know we will have a great conversation today to generate a lot of great questions. Look at the bottom of your screen you will see a q a feature in during the conversation please submit questions and just leave us a note from where you are from would like to know where everybody is from allison will gather up these questions on the second half of the program. We have an audience of several hundred people we cannot get to all questions to ask as many questions as possible. For our speaker today professor Elizabeth Varon professor of American History at the university of virginia and serving on the executive council for civil war history. A specialist in the civil war era in 19th century film and has authored several books for some of the previous books include we need to be counted. And the coming of the American Civil War so today we will speak about her newest book the army of deliverance the history of the civil war. So welcome professor its great to have you on the program. Thank you so much. That seems like an incredibly daunting task. You have done it through the theme of deliverance but then to touch in so many different topics related to the civil war from the diplomatic and emancipation and military can you tell us why you are tackling the whole narrative history and what is meant by deliverance . So i was commissioned to write us a complete history of the civil war. And then to answer for myself about other politics. So those questions and then how they sustained their morale. And to be short and sweet it isnt all that tricky but it would make it for combat. And in the question of leadership and how they built a coalition because Northern Society was divided across the political spectrum those abolitionist and the radical republicans and on the other far end of that spectrum conservative democrats and in that political spectrum for figures like Abraham Lincoln so then to manage how they built that coalition and sustain the coalition. I was also interested with the Union Emancipation policy and how it took shape to which they gain political attraction so over the course of my research i discovered around the theme of deliverance and the Union Victory uplift southern whites and bracts blacks by liberating them and that secessionist to hold them under their thumb. And to deliver to them the blessings of free society. But to save the southern masses from their own i argue over the course of the book that this was so politically powerful and it forced lincoln to grow that coalition that included republicans and democrats in the Opposition Party loyal residents and those governors and seceded states and i make the case over the course of the war and i try to explain that unions persisted from southern leaders i also try to address the issue of the longterm impact and while it was instrumental with true Coalition Building it actually failed to persuade confederates to accept Union Victory were to accept black freedom. And it also failed to resolve those debates so one additional point there are a lot of teachers on the line in the sense that i was commissioned with broad leadership but also to use this as a textbook in College Classrooms and in high school. So i had the end in mind to take away two important things from this book and to understand what americans struggle to put in the same frame. Those are first that racism not only a southern problem in this meant that africanamericans were waging a freedom struggle against the words of the slavery of the south but also with consistent discrimination and the north but it was three better secondclass status so to understand the consequences of the civil war but i also want my student readers to understand Something Else the union and the confederacy representing starkly different ideologies and it was these differences when he famously said there is a right side and the wrong side it was of war between the old and the new slavery and freedom barbarism and civilization the court was under no illusion as a vanguard to reform society. But that ideology with emphasis with enslaved labor Union Ideology created a framework in which change and progress were possible not even unlikely but possible. And activists pushed open the door with great adversity to push open the door to change douglas also knew they were the enemies of change and progress so its important to understand all of this because i want to be mindful of falling into the trap of the false equivalency between the union and the confederacy we are reminded all the time other than to charlottesville and the aftermath that was a very dangerous trap indeed. Looking at the incredible challenge lincoln had ahead if and when elected to keep the gigantic complicated coalition and the north republicans and abolitionist dealing with the slaveholding and with that in washington dc to the emancipation proclamation and with the political dynamic going on in the north. And as a core war aid it emphasizes lincolns pragmatism. To keep this entity together and not to alienate he knew those that identify themselves as an abolitionist so we know that link and experiments with those policies and with the emancipation. And to go back into the union. And with the series of appeals a long tradition of antislavery understand it standard narrative is where lincoln comes around when he observes the slavery against the enslaved. And with this activism is resistant that is eroding the institution and then is driven by a pragmatic believe that the abolition means on behalf of emancipation that is pragmatic and then to say as a means to an end written by pragmatism because of military necessity to take resources away from our enemy. I recognize the value of that narrative but as it comes around where abolition on dash evolution but with the emancipation so it would benefit opening the way free speech and economic prosperity. And then to remove the source of contention, it will displace that slaveholding society. And in the attempts the various allies from the border states and the southerners of the Confederate States and then to make the case that will have the benefits. Now to say that lincoln makes the argument about society and of emancipation. It is sobering and disappointing because it signals the arguments centers on from what we would have liked and the focus should have been on the suffering of slaves and to citizenship. So another way to think about this is the context of the way it comes before that emancipation has benefits for all americans and is radical it is of a zerosum game. And then to reject this and to reject this type of thinking and to be noted and emphasized that is following the lead of the true antislavery vanguard of the enslaved people taking matters into their own hands. But also very much into those figures like Frederick Douglass and others had been building this case for abolition and then to embrace it in this way from what had come before. It also seems to play internationally because also what you talk about to keep an eye across the atlantic because cotton was part of a Global Economy and the British Empire was dependent on cotton from the south and then trying to prevent to be recognized as a nation seeking selfdetermination can you talk more about that aspect . Yes it is important the emphasis for someone like lincoln the central premise with this of politics widespread belief on the part of northerners the masses most of whom did not own slaves were diluted and pressured and to those secessionist leaders and somehow the union could break the spell over the masses and delivered to the hands of the union army. He believed very staunchly it is the work of the conspirators and that was into a legitimate movement to reflect the true will of the southern masses. And we can talk about in the face of so much evidence of confederate support and ideology but in terms of geopolitics to persuade european powers that they should be recognized as such and that it was helpful in this way it is not a legitimate exercise in nationbuilding this is a conspiracy by those who are writing roughshod of the southern masses. And a preliminary the proclamation to clearly identify the union for. How did they react to the notions of deliverance and the words printed in the newspapers and their kind of ideology against the north so to speak . Heres an important thing to note with those propaganda wars but what happens one side demonizes the other. I do see demonization in the southern war but the premise is that southerners would be the country of northerners. And those that need teaching. And those that shed repent and somehow to come back into the national fold. And those to the deliverance rhetoric and they wanted at all cost the rhetoric so at the very start it is the ideology. And the war on extermination. The deliverances for key unionists like degradation and in a sense and to appeal to the southern masses that they are intent on subjugation. This is how much dissent was there in the south . Thats a tricky question to answer. Unfortunately confederate propaganda was effective and those that hoped it would to show the true blue unionist for africanamerican whose participation every level and with the union army is decisive and Union Victory. But we shouldnt do so because there were anti confederate southerners nearly 80 percent were southerners. So it comes back to your question confederate ideology and for those devoted slaves and loyal slaves and that was divided and then to capitalize. Taking a look to these two different ideologies to call it northern barbarity and southern victimization and then to use deliverance that their wayward brothers so to speak what was the impact at the end of the war and what is the legacy and then to take advantage of the northern view to bring them back into the fold in a peaceful way to make them brothers once again. I found as a research the book. Because it is the back story. I wrote a book and that have been so magnanimous not to exonerate them but to seek their repentance. And that southerners respond. And then way to change hearts and minds. So what i describe in this book is the source. Was grant delusional . Why did she think they could believe they could change southern hearts and minds . They looked around the landscape and saw deliverance was working inside evidence of desertion and that deliverance was working the slaveholder wordings on the state and the republican parties and get traction in places that deliverance was working. With a separate unionist state. So there is a powerful yearning. And indeed and to change southern hearts and minds. And with the first phases of reconstruction and the residents of this deliverance rhetoric it was an emotional resonance. And then to subjugate and to impose loyalty. To change the hearts and minds. But they failed to do that but that conservatives would not be pda there lost cause so we see a rejection and two things that are very telling coalition to come together to fight the war and the meaning victory and the meaning of freedom to exercise full rights so we can see that coalition is so much by andrew johnson. So in 1864 trying to win the election precisely because he was a southerner who has seen the light and supported the union. And as a military necessity and at the end of the war Johnson Johnson reveals that his notion is very narrow. And it comes to light to seeking to build new coalitions of his own and that he uses the mst policy while we focus on emancipation with the future allegiance and to peel them away from the confederacy and then they use that amnesty policy and the result is the way the south imposes and to be as close to slavery as possible with the 13h amendment. I could talk with you the whole day but this will have to be the last questions we can get to the audience. Because the audience have a lot of teachers viewing how can they help their students understand this incredibly complex subject the diplomacy and also what were your favorite sources. Wonderful question. First of all this biography is a wonderful way and therefore to go very deeply into the aura of someone like Frederick Douglass and then with enough contact to understand the complexity and after it is very important but ultimately i found soldiers letters that were so moving. And the people and the sophistication of their own thinking and grammar and spellings and so on that seem less stand polish but this sentiment provides for us great insight so tuning into those voices are so important and we have to streak on strike a balance so for me the letters and diaries that are newly acquired. Because they are a control group to see how arguments that are being made they are landing and resounding supply only found the deliverance rhetoric that i described i would have wondered how much it mattered. But what i found that those in the moment sources when the smoke was clearing off the battlefields they were perfecting and a mantra. To save the south. And with that Broad Spectrum and even those that supported emancipation and those in particular to confront discrimination and slavery in the argument that deliverance will not be complete and the wages of sin. And to be less hopeful about any quick conversion. Much more focused though he has seen in those soldiers letters and diaries the spectrum gives a chance how ideology affects those experiences. With american women in the southern history warriors in the case of Harriet Tubman and others have medical apparatus and with those political commentators that is integral to this story. What i tried to do in this book is to this is an incredible boo book. Thank you much for writing it. I professor thank you so much. ;semicolon take a small handful. If the north was so intent on delivering the south and why did so man he northerners were in the reconstruction years . A very important question and it emphasizes the few things it does gain traction. But the best way is is a massive misinformation campaign. And to be miss perceptible because of racism in the north because in a very cynical way through violence and propaganda in the only answer to the chaos is to go back to the way things were before. In this suggest that they could only had piece by abandoning the hope of delivering. And one way to think about this. And dont give into lost cause ideology. That they should not only be will to occupy the were on the high ground. The reconciliation is ideology. In between those two sides focusing on reconciliation and former confederates only on their own term to share that high ground. And if they want to win hearts and minds and there was the marshall plan. To give more ration to poor white southerners than africanamericans. So in our lost cause ideology and as an agency is subrogation and tyranny there was no link they would not go to to restore history and part of that was sweeping under the rug southern unionism and the southern Union Victory an obligation to slavery and again northerners and others had hoped in change with a Massive Campaign of propaganda. I been thinking about this a lot with james austria confederate general almost alone to draw the conclusion confederate did have to a d on yield to the ideals and then to support the Republican Party and is a pariah with an almost singular type of switch. So with grant to it have that clemency was to change southern hearts and minds and at the end of the day to go very few and far between to close frank to discredit and preempt any appeal for that. The next question from oregon. Can you address what kind of agency was before president grant took office . With an important distinction with the postwar. And the second state of professional reconstruction. And as historical work has shown former slaves and keep in mind it was considered defeat the true don freedom the emancipation proclamation as slavery but is protected by them and southern armies between africanamericans and we find that very broadly not only like someone like johnson but Legal Protections with that dred scott decision. And to protect those families and to Economic Opportunities so instantly to demand those rates. And those that are stoked by andrew johnson. With a series of laws with the regime and with the survival of the ideology. And with professional reconstruction we see real change for the first time. And with that reconstruction with that protectionist. And that which has been denied by a political voice. And tragically then experiment in interracial democracy is under siege from the moment it begins. And with that confederate ideology and meant to have that zerosum game. Christopher wants to know and with our lost cause narrative of the confederacy and that they did not need saving. So alluding to the things the prophecy of deliverance is problematic. And those were to be condescending. And many felt this was part of our representative of the northern condescension. That northerners felt southern slaveholders were condescending toward them. And then to keep white southern suffering at politics. And showing suffering at the center of politics in this was a problem. And those to suffer under the slaveholders and in the name of delivering the white southern masses in this has many potential uses to a retrograde and reactionary peace. And this is all meant to underscore how leadership matters. And lincolns you of deliveranc deliverance. This question comes from new york city and amelia. How does deliverance rhetoric very with the white units . Thats a great question. I think i found that it was ubiquitous among all those soldiers but with important variations. For offers on officers but by those associations and the image of poor southern whites was the image of people that were uneducated, ignoran uneducated, ignorant, living in primitive circumstances and we needed not only to be brought around but also uplifted socially. So the notion the project of social uplift to be articulated and wealthy and officers. And to help that the anti confederate whites might be allies in the freedom struggle but again to be much more focused on the idea deliverance not from the north and south and they believe very strongly we would not have National Security and peace unless the she was of the south union because without that to will, that vulnerability of exploitation would persist. And to sees the variation of social groups. The next question comes from sherry. Did africanamericans serve voluntarily in the army . No. They have always done labor that was meant to serve the interest of southern slaveholders so they were forced to clear roads to grow crops and so on, they were not welcome into the Confederate Military with the debate of the enlistment of black soldiers by confederates in the very last stages of the war in terrific work by people like kevin leven and bruce levine and it shows clearly that was to preserve slavery by forcing some black men to bear arms towards her potential authority or citizenship to rescue slavery for the rest of Southern Society and that debate went nowhere because slaveholders were not willing to give their slaves over to the army in that capacity to be used in that way. It is very important to put the myth of black confederates to rest once and for all in the african men served in the union army not the Confederate Army. This question is from jennifer from washington, d. C. Can you identify a turning point for something that triggered lincoln to move from the expansion with slavery to indiana . I would say their innocence, traditional story has it right, lincoln says famously, he is offering gradual compensated emancipation to the border state slaveholders that they never accept the abrasion and ending slavery and he has in mind that mass extremist to the union army. He can see the writing on the wall, its a combination and the slave states are not going to abandon the union but not accept his offer of gradual emancipation and converging factors and also someone in this ultimately is so important to remember as we think about avoiding false equivalency, the union gives us Abraham Lincoln, one of the greatest president s, the man striving and changes his views, adopts, listens, learns of midtwenties wrong and travels a journey and scholars think about this about a private lincoln always had slavery on some level, theres a private lincoln with private concerns and balancing acts to keep the coalition together. We do eventually on the other his assassination in the second inaugural and in the last speech he gives he is converging of the private and public lincoln and sometimes a key thing, and having learned what he learned, he can speak in antislavery that evoke the abolitionist with douglas. It cannot be emphasized enough how much a performance of africanamerican troops is a factor in lincoln coming to send emancipation the way that he does. In moral terms. Our new questio enter next qn comes from joseph, how do you address those to continue the lost cause in the arguments about the cause of the war as opposed to the economics and political power of slavery . This is something we as educators deal with all the time and we observe for example about states rights that is not separate from the issue of slavery, that is a false economy in the session to most protect the rights owned slaves. But we ask those for one reason or another the lost cause set of notions says we asked them to read the primary sources, the exception is where unabashed in telling us why they succeeded. The architects of secession succeeded to protect and perpetuate with slavery and they tell us so and the documents in which they explain their actions to the world and the ordinance of succession and of georgia or South Carolina. They are not subtle about it. They tell us no Uncertain Terms what it was about. The question raises in existence and another level. There is no dispute and no story denies and protects the slavery. We also know that most out they did not own slaves. In lincoln thought about Southern Society with the white southerners most reinvent enter prevent slaveholders who kept for themselves for the prepondee of wealth and power in the sout. In northerners failed to reckon with the degree in which slaveholder ideology had posted into Southern Society and the society. If we also count the number of white southerners who hope to own slaves and work with or for slaveowners who had slaveowners and their families and so on, we see a broad majority of white southerners believe they have a stake in slavery in a system of profit and social control and a white southern propaganda that believing that the north was a right to their wellbeing and the racial control was tragically very effective. We have time for one more question, you mentioned the South Carolina broadside. Our question has to copies and viewers know our website and more information about those in what they say. In other broadside, they are quite large and very interesting to look at. My final question comes from kelly and kelly wants to know how many confederate soldiers switch sides to fight for the north. That is a good question, i dont have a figure that i quote right now, there are some books who fought on the union side and they do emphasize in my book. Lets put it this way, one of the things it was emphasized in a wonderful book with the south versus the south, the title tells you a good deal about the thesis of this book. He observes that 450,000 men enslaved states fought for the union army in uniform, 150,000 of the 450,000 were africanamericans. The other 300,000 were border state license who chose the union army rather than the confederate and 100,000 and Confederate States who chose the union army. So there again are substantial divisions within seven society that should lead us to think twice about equating the south with the confederacy, northerners believe southerners who did switch sides into the Confederate Army was joined with the union army. Those endorse the union war, though southerners were symbolically very important to lincoln and i give you one example, confederate named edward from arkansas who came to embrace the Republican Party in the administration and held up a sign and a symbol that this was possible. The last thing i will say on this follows, lincoln proposes a plan in the summer of 1863, it is named the 10 plan. And lincoln was hoping by offering him the confederates, he could get 10 of the confederate population to peel away from the confederacy, joining the union and pledge of allegiance and that could be a vanguard that might lead the restored states back into the union. The fact that he chose the number 10 tells you something about the absence of support for the union and those Confederate States. And the fact that he had to adjust to the expectation about the potential of people switching sides, there is pockets of unionism in the south in the mountains south in the plantation area. The true blue union among whites were far and few between. In some beleaguered and yearning for deliverance to be sure the having to wait a very long time for it. Professor, thank you so much for this, absolutely fascinating conversation. Thank you for corralling all the great questions. Much appreciated. I want to share my screen one more time so i can share with all of you folks out there whole bunch of important links. If youre going into the chat feature, these are not clickable, go to the chat window to click on any of these listed here. When you also say friends, 100 questions in a chance to only answer a few, that will lead people with Unanswered Questions and im happy to enter them by email if anyone wants to reach out to be. I am absolutely delighted to answer questions by email. Fantastic. Thank you. If youre interested in buying professor barons book, go to this link here, bookshop. Org, this is the golden learning page, the purchase of the book through the website will not only help support golden, will help independent bookstores. Once we end the webinar, you will be sent to this link for a two minute survey, please fill out the survey, we like to know how we are doing and how we can improve, if youre interested in learning, go to gilded learning. Org and i hope you will be able to join us next sunday at 2 00 p. M. Eastern time with professor ted witmer in his book lincoln on the verge. Of course if youre interested in finding anything else out our programs in the collection, go to guilder lerman. Org and we will leave this up your for a minute if you want to copy the links but you will be sent these links in a followup email that you should be getting tomorrow and the reporting of this session will be on the books right website by the end of the week, a big thank you to professor varon for the conversation, thank you allison and the cuter audience out there and we hope to see you again next week. Have a great afternoon everyone. Thursday a special edition of book tv with a focus on healthcare, starting at 8 00 p. M. Eastern doctor is eq emmanuel former special advisor on Health Policy and the Obama Administration shares his thought on which country has the best healthcare in the world. 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