Transcripts For CSPAN2 House Hearing On COVID-19 Higher Education 20240712

Wish to seek recognition. Per House Resolution 955 resolutions and members are required to leave the camera on the entire time they are in an official proceeding. Even if they step away from the camera. Our roll call is not necessary to establish a quorum and official proceedings conducted remotely whenever there is an official receding with remote participation the clerk will call the roll to help make clear who is present at the start of the preceding. This time i asked the clerk to call the roll. [roll call] [roll call] [roll call] [roll call] [roll call] [roll call] [roll call] thank you very much. Pursuant to Committee Rule 7d Opening Statements are witnessed the chain the Ranking Member for this allows us to hear from our witnesses sooner and provide all members the adequate time to ask questions. Recognize myself a purpose of making an opening statement. Today we are examining how the covid19 pandemic is draining our Higher Education system and discussing what Congress Must do to support students and institutions through this difficult time. Across the country we have switched to on line learning and that is exacerbated preexisting systemic inequities in Higher Education. For example beyond campus resources that many students from backgrounds or land like computer lets them liable internet are now unavailable to most students. The suspension of on campus next to the is also threatening many students access to basic essentials like food. For these students going to school has been their primary way of meeting these needs. The survey from earlier this year found students of color are disproportionately suffering high rates of food and housing insecurity due to the closure of campuses. Research also indicates how most students do not perform as well in on line classes. Imagine how students are already starting off with fewer resources are more likely to struggle. Under these new educational conditions to adjust these disparities congress secured 14 billion in emergency funding for Higher Education and the bipartisan care and have that this funding is allocated specifically for direct student emergency aid. Additionally congress provided immediately relief like suspending student loan payments and interest on all direct and bitterly held Student Loans. Unfortunately instead of quickly dispersing these urgent relief funds to students however according to the law that we have passed in march secretary devos created it arbitrary eligibility requirement for students trying to access this. These restrictions not only prevent funding for quickly reaching students but they include several underserved groups of students who cannot apply for title iv aids such as undocumented students and veterans. In response the state of washington and the California Community College System which includes the san diego Community College district sued secretary devos. These lawsuits have temporarily stopped the department from denying California Community College Students and students across washington axis to the emergency student aid that congress secured. Setting aside the delays and unnecessary restrictions created by the department we must also address how the cares act did not go far enough to prepare institutions for this looming economic recession. In a pandemic institution are facing unprecedented state and local budget shortfalls that will trigger funding for Higher Education and they are facing massive revenue losses due to the decreased enrollment and that gave these. [inaudible] these cuts in revenue stop the program that many vulnerable students need to complete their degree and joined careers but we know these consequences are going to fall on colleges and universities private colleges and institutions and Community Colleges which have the fewest resources despite serving most of our countrys lowincome students and students of color. The pending legend tory process sending many unders and suggestions under pressure to permanently reopen their campuses even at the risk of exposing students, educators and communities to covid19. The evidence is overwhelmingly clear. Congress must do more to support our students and their institutions. The heroes act would take a critical step in the right direction. It provides nearly 1 trillion to help state and local governments invert overt budget cuts to education. It provides direct relief funds for Public Institutions and other institutions that have suffered financially including almost 2 billion for a cus pcus and msis. The extra funds however Congress Must also protect students from predatory these institutions have a record of using taxpayer dollars to target vulnerable students during economic downturn often leaving them with worthless degrees and debt that they cannot repay presimply put the covid19 pandemic is testing not only are students and their institutions but a commitment to ensuring all students have access to safe and affordable and quality education. Today with the help of our witnesses and we appreciate their being here we will discuss whether we can live up to that commitment. I now yield to the Ranking Member mr. Smucker for an opening statement. Thank you. Its good to see you. [inaudible] mr. Smucker. [inaudible] it was working a little bit ago. Ranking member smucker. When we did your initial audiovisual check were you using the airpods at the time sir . You sound fine now sir. Is that better . It is better. It was the bouncing back with a microphone. Thanks very about that. Does that sound better now . Are we get to go . Again before i discuss the topic i wanted to talk about the importance of doing our work in person. I didnt several members are here in the hearing room. Peter mccarthy had recently written in a letter to Speaker Pelosi that our congress which is literally a coming together of people and ideas that works best when it happens inperson facetoface and while im know that we have all love to have zoom and web access on all of this i really do think that we could operate in person and so i will make the same requested Ranking Member fox made at the start of our last hearing which is lets return to congressional precedent and hold their hearings here in person. Turning to the topic of todays hearing covid19 certainly has disrupted nearly every aspect of American Society including Higher Education. It was back in early march in the university of washington became the first school to cancel inperson classes pretoday over 1000 colleges and universities have switched to on line only instruction. From abrupt School Closures to remote on line learning students and educators have raised overwhelming challenges during this pandemic and thats why congress and the department of education took several steps to ease the burden for states or institutions and for students. The bipartisan cares act which was passed in march included provisions to help students schools and State Governments cope with the changes brought by the pandemic in addition to regular tory relief measures for students and institutions. The cares act provided temporary respirator from repayment allegations. Specifically the legislation requires the secretary to suspend all interest accumulation and the payments on bitterly held Student Loans through september 30 of this year. Most critically the cares act created and funded the Higher Ed Emergency Relief Fund which provided billions in direct aid to students in Postsecondary Education institutions including the hbcus and msis or thats not to say i want this dumper, contrary to but the pandemic is expose serious underlying deficiencies in our Education System or government overreach and unnecessary intervention is contributed to a bloated Postsecondary Education sector at the expense of students. Tuition and fees have far out taste inflation for decades. Federer carmans stifling interaction between businesses and College Campuses great unfortunately rather than innovating the democrats partisan act doubles down on what our policies. This legislation forgives 10,000 of federal and private Student Loan Debt for some borrowers which does nothing to combat covid19 or lower power ledge costs. I do recognize what to help people struggling to make ends meet that we have data from your. To the prove that acrosstheboard loans are giving us disproportionally highly educated individuals. Many americans facing the greatest financial strain as a result of pandemic could not have Student Loans at all. The bill also launches a social takeover of the private student loan market by forcing private Student Loan Companies to offer income driven repayment terms in addition to kid by the federal government. In contrast Committee Republicans continue to support reforms that strengthen innovation and completion, modernize federal student aid and promote student opportunities by giving students the tools needed to complete and affordable Postsecondary Education. We can prepare them to enter the workforce with the skills they need for success regardless of their background. These reforms wont matter for dont open or nation schools and this is a safely and responsibly. We have a duty to lead this country back to the prepandemic Economic Prosperity that an offended millions of hardworking americans. Congress can help further unleash our nations economic potential by increasing pathways for americans to succeed in the workforce. Specifically this means permitting colleges and universities to leverage employer expertise encouraging shortterm credentials and creating a Regulatory Framework for new methods of earning. These types of forwardlooking reforms have been championed by the Trump Administration are just a few weeks ago President Trump issued an executive order to prioritize skillsbased hiring within the federal government to help strengthen and diversify the workforce for this section will take our nations workers and students in a positive direction as we recover from covid19 and congress should follow the demonstrations lead on this issue. Look forward to hearing from our Witnesses Today about how we can improve our Education System to better meet the needs of students families and workers sprayed thank you madam chair. Thank you. Thank you Ranking Member smucker. All members who wish to enter their statements in the record may do so by submitting them to the Committee Clerk a laconic glee by 5 00 monday july 21. It is now my pleasure to introduce our witnesses. First is dr. Sharon pierce this team present at Minneapolis Community and Technical College since 2016 per dr. Sharon pierce has been meeting the effort at Minneapolis College to provide transformative student experiences. Doctors pierce has dedicated our career to advancing community and Technical Colleges and reducing disparities in providing underrepresented students with an opportunity to a cheap academic success. Doctors pierce worked as a clinical nurse for 12 years and was appointed by Maryland Governor to serve on the states board of nursing. She earned our bachelors and masters degrees from University Maryland and our doctorate degree in urban education from oregon State University. Our next witness is dr. Tim at the white ph. D. Counselor of California State University. Since 2013 dr. White has been leading the California State University system comprised of 23 sported a 1000 students and 53 thousands that go can step her doctor white bring individualized education to scale for the expansion of group and best practices. Hard to becoming counselor or dr. White served as chancellor and professor of biology and Biomedical Sciences at the university of California Riverside or five years as president of the university of idaho for four years per dr. White pursued his Higher Education act fresno state and the university of california birx we. Next is Scott Pulsipher but i hope i said that right serve. President of western Governors University. Since 2016 Scott Pulsipher is served as president of western Governors University the nations first and largest competencybased university. Under his leadership at the vcu wto has expanded access to on line degree programs for students across the country. Prior to joining wtu he gained extensive leadership and experience in technologybased customs focused businesses including amazon sterling commerce which is part of ibm and two successful startups. He hosted bashers degree from Brigham Young and a masters degree from Harvard University and last is dr. Sean tamera mowryhously president of the American Educational Research Association and the provost said professor in the school of education at the university of Southern California and usa. Dr. Harper is the clifford ambani allen chair. In urban leadership founder and executive character the lessee Equity Center and a past president of the association for the studies of Higher Education. For two decades harper is studied racial and gender equity colleges and universities and corporate context. He has been recognized in Education Week one of the 10 most influential education or passers in the United States. Dr. Harper earned his bachelors degree from albany State University and a masters in. It degree from indiana university. We greatly appreciate the witnesses for participating today and look forward to your testimony. I want to remind you that we have read your written statement and they will appear in full in the hearing message. Or soon to Committee Rule 7d inc. May practice each of you is asked to limit your oral presentation to the fiveminute summary of your written statement. I also wanted to remind the witnesses that pursuant to title xviii of the u. S. Code section 2001 it is illegal to knowingly and willfully falsify in a statement representation writing document or the terry terry of fact presented to congress or otherwise conceal the coverup. During our testimony we will use a chime to signal than one minute is left in when time is up entirely. We will send a short time when there is one minute left and a longer chime when time is up. Please be attended to the time and renewed your system. If any of you experience any technical difficulty during our testimony relating to hearing stay connected on the platform make sure your muted with a mute button highlighted in red and use your phone to immediately call the committees i. T. Director sheila haefner. We will let all the witnesses make their presentations before he moved to member questions and when answering a question please remember to undo your system. Its my pleasure to recognize doctors pierce for five minutes. Doctors pierce. Thank you chairman davis Ranking Member and distinguished subcommittee members that thank you for the opportunity to testify today but im sharon pierce president Minneapolis College for my testimony will describe the impact of the Global Pandemic on community and Technical Colleges and our students and the need for congress to provide additional aid. Our college located in urban setting is the only conference of community and Technical College in minneapolis. We have students who are not likely to succeed elsewhere to provide an opportunity to complete a ability to contribute to the economy. Our students face multiple barriers to academic success but covid19 but many students out of work leaving them unable to support families or access transportation or social services and elevated Mental Health concerns. Now they must learn to navigate courses through an on line platform often using a smartphone without reliable Internet Access creating difficulty connecting to instructors, classmates, tutors the library and support services. Our college received 2. 3 million in funding for direct student aid through the guidance for this funding was difficult to unravel and this resulted in more than a twoweek delay in disbursement. Im going to let you build the rulemaking by the department of education created uncertainty and limited out ability to direct aid to the most average students. In response to covid19 we transitioned over 900 classes to remote delivery. Moving Forward Technology investments need to be the forefront of decisionmaking. Hardware Software Network aspect training and more especially in career and technical programs training to advance their pedagogy using alternative delivery and format. Education can only be achieved by ensuring students have the technology they need and academics and receive support services whether they are on campus are working remotely. To provide a safer campus lead to invest and facility upgrades including contact with hardware additional cleaning supplies personal protective equipment and facilities to allow for physical distancing. We will continue to reallocate it reduced expenditures as part of our effort to survive potential sickness moving forward students who face significant barriers in navigating their economic realities additional funding from the federal government providing direct aid to students impacted by covid19 will support their continuous enrollment in the economic recovery of our nation. In addition the importance of ongoing federal stabilization on operating costs of institutions like ours during this time cannot he overstated. It provided badly needed stabilization funding more assistance is vital to us to serve our students provide promote learning and prepare to safely reopen our campus. According to recent estimates Community Colleges sustained a collective production of 10 billion over the next year. We want to stress the importance of using ahead count raised format to allocate stabilization funding to institutions of Higher Education. This will allow us to count all of our students including those who attend parttime brett thank you for placing the cares act formula with the head raised formula in the recently passed heroes act. We appreciate your recognition of parttime students be given access to the same resources as their fulltime peers reader committed to providing access to the transformative power education regardless of socioeconomic status and as a nation strives to to recover from covid19 prior education would be a critical component in rebuilding the economy figure unprecedented level of commitment and education is needed now so it will affect students ability to achieve their academic goals and support the viability of communities. Thank you. Thank you doctors pierce and now dr. White. Ranking member smucker. Jerry davis Ranking Member smucker members of the committee thank you for providing me the opportunity to address you today. For those who may be out of money with the California State University where the nations largest and most diverse for your University System 23 campuses more than and 80,000 students in approximately 53,000 faculty and staff. One out of every 20 americans with a College Degree is a graduate of the California State University. For the health first insistence of color and the first in their family to attend college. 54 of our old students turn at 30,000 of them are pell grant recipients and just last year alone 63,000 of those recipients earn their bachelors degree. This dynamic diversity together with their sheer size and the quality of our academic programs because one of americas most powerful drivers of socioeconomic ascent. Our response to covid19 pandemic has been guided i safeguarding the health and wellbeing of our students faculty staff and the communities we serve and maintaining our students progress. In march we made a massive commitment to virtual instruction transitioning over 70,000 classes with academic and Student Support services to virtual modalities. We have taken great care to mitigate the pandemics impacts your students especially are most vulnerable. Measures include maintaining onCampus Housing and essential services for students who had nowhere else to call home disturbing thousands of laptops and tablets and offering wifi hotspots to help address the Digital Divide continuing to meet our students basic needs with no konapek Food Distribution in Emergency Housing Services for students who are food and housing insecure Campus Counseling Services offered virtually serving students presenting with a variety of Mental Health issues during the crisis and providing necessary flexibility around academic helices for current students in adjusting policies to mitigate hardships to Prospective Students and their families. We are extremely grateful for the more than five under 63 million in Financial Relief provided to our students and campuses through the cares act part because Education Department guidance of limited eligibility for cares act emergency grants we have upended those campus resources so that all of our students in need in covid19 including doctors students in International Students could receive muchneeded financial Emergency Support. Informed by the guidance of scientific and medical experts along with Public Health officials were planning for primarily virtual fall and an persons experiences that can be conducted within rigorous standards of health and safety triggers a plan for the fall and beyond confronts a grim new fiscal reality. I campuses face soaring costs and mounting revenue losses associated with the pandemic winning our students wellbeing and success at significant risk. The recently passed california budget cuts are purpy did buy 299 million, 4. 2 of our operating budget and allows additional relief funds are forthcoming. I asked for Additional Support in investment during this historic Public Health crisis in a deuce on behalf of the nations largest and most diverse student body keeping the students, students from all walks of life and rolled with a highquality degree not only that benefits them and their families and communities but also a vital public good for the nation. Supporting Higher Education in this critical moment stimulates employment for hundreds of thousands of americans now on into the future spring tax revenue while reducing reliance on social services. America for the economic recovery will require an increasingly nimble educated workforce. We need both surely competent problem solvers comfortable and capable and sciences and Technology Climate literate inspiring the world into a Sustainable Future bring to the mature vigorous economy and the changing world of work and we need them for vibrant and more Equitable Society who stand ready to be a resource as we continue ways to support Higher Education or thank you again for the opportunity to address you today and im happy to answer any questions you might have. Thank you dr. White and now recognized as tercel bake for five minutes. Thank you for being with us sir. Chairman davis Ranking Member smucker members of the sub to many thank you for this opportunity to share my views on the impact of covid19 on the feature of Higher Education. We are compelled by our belief in inherent work inability of every individual in the transformative power of education. We believe the pathway to opportunity should be open to everyone. Wto is a private nonprofit selfsustaining institutions founded in 1997 by a Bipartisan Group of the 19 governors for their potential use technology and competencybased technology and better a wine with Workforce Needs. Today we serve over 120,000 fulltime students in all 50 states. Over 70 of whom would be classified in one or more underserved categories. We deliver affordable relevant highquality programs combined with the student centered instructional model entirely on line and that propel students working to completion great jobs and opportunities. Live is then appended for every american in particular the nearly 20 Million Students enrolled in Higher Education. Their challenges for Material Support to stay on the path to opportunity and we need to give access to download world in which learning out takes place. Over 21 million americans disproportionately people of color take part in our civic life or participate in the digital workforce. Their many questions about the fall semester but students need to look well beyond the fallen address strategic russians on Higher Education prepared to qishan entered the pandemic with preexisting conditions rapidly escalating costs awaiting disconnect with Workforce Needs student debt unacceptable Racial Disparities and outcomes and low completion rates. Now in the throes of Technology Driven disruption accelerated by covid19. Issues are certainly pressing weather safely repping campuses disabling or the protection of on line students due to potential closures. We must reestablish the purpose and mission of Postsecondary Education modernize the way we invest in it. You must embrace the Technology Approach to teaching students must move swiftly and radically to not only get currently enrolled students back on the path to completion but many of the 40 plus americans whove been deployed in the pandemic and tens of millions more whose work is being ingratiated by technology. Simply 90 need to reimagine Postsecondary Education is a lifelong model providing highquality relevance. It includes areas policy ideas that i believe address many of the challenges our country and student space. Policy ideas are based on a few simple guiding principles. First student should be prior ties over the institution. Second Student Outcomes matter more than institutional input and learning rather than time should be the don nominator of education for a 1930s or nation responded to a great economic crisis by passing the new deal. In 1940 spacing and imprisoned a need for education is young soldiers return from war hungry for Opportunity Congress open a door to direct federal investment in Higher Education by passing the g. I. Bill. In the 1960s facing widespread protests and social unrest in response to racism we sought legislation around civil rights for today we find yourselves at the intersection of several similar great we face a significant economic challenge of an unprecedented need for education and workforce and sadly continue to grapple with inequities which are exposed and widened by the pandemic. We are living in unprecedented times. It demands are best thinking new framework of investment or congress can renew the pathway to opportunity for every american. We need Landmark Education on the education and a new purse that can meet the challenges of the future that is designed for the digital and Information Age and modernize our approach to investing in unlocking the potential of every individual could thank you for the opportunity to be here today and to be of assistance as we take on the critical questions facing americas Higher Education system. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. I recognize dr. Harper for five minutes. Thank you are including in this important hearing. Impaired up that we devote serious attention to the numerous Racial Equity consequences of reopening campuses. I present three considerations in the written version of my stats like that i will talk about nine of them here and the one pertaining to student visas and travel bans is above the purview of the subcommittee. Here are nine critical Racial Equity considerations. One, disproportionate placing essential workers at risk Custodians Food Service professionals and maintenance workers will inevitably be deemed essential workers when campuses reopen. Students of color disproportionately perform these roles. They require to come to campus and indirect with other workers and students and places employees of color in the Family Members with whom they live at greater risk of exposure to covid19. Campus reopening plans must consider Health Implications of employees of color and lower income potential workers. Federal aid specifically earmarked for employees deemed essential workers provides ppe cleaning supplies Contact Tracing and testing. Two, the racialization of layoffs and termination. The financial effect of the pandemic of force Higher Education leaders to make workforce reduction decisions. In attention to the race of the person being terminated and laid off will inevitably yield negative effects on employees of color given the low Level Service position they disproportionately occupied. Campus reopening plans must specify ways to significantly ratio federal investment would itemize the necessity of workforce reduction in Higher Education institutions. The risk of violence for asianamericans and asian International Students and employees. Recent studies document horrifying acts of discrimination and physical violence who are asianamericans and asian immigrants in the u. S. Dropped the pandemic. Does reopening plans must include ways to protect the students and employees as they return to campuses. Four, trauma covid19 deaths per disproportionately affecting communities of color. Because of the students of color and employees of color are likelier than their white counterparts to have lost a Family Member or friend or someone in their community. Their opening plans must include ways to ensure these persons have more than adequate mental and emotional support resources. Five, sending infected students on the volatile families and communities many institutions plan to conclude in anticipation of the second way the coronavirus forgiven the disproportionately higher numbers of covid19 infections and deaths among people of color it is plausible that students of color returning home from college could pose an especially big russ to rest to come in to set a party ben disproportionately devastated by covid19. Six, placing black football and mens basketball players at disproportionately higher risk and 20 team black men were 2. 4 of undergraduates enrolled at universities that take up to five most financially lucrative conferences yet they comprise 55 of football teams and 56 of mens basketball teams on campuses. Does these two contacts for spaces black undergraduate men at disproportionate risk of covid19 infection. Chronically underfunded minority serving institutions affect the covid19 recovered from specifically historically black communities tribal colleges and Community Colleges would help them better serve the outcome students of color. Address digital inequities that every scene throughout the pandemic will i come student lack access to reliable highspeed internet. Many of them are students of color and an institution should wont reconsider opening plans must include strategies and investments in closing due to lack so scabs for students of color who continue to access courses in their homes. Upscaling faculty members and teaching on line. Faculty Development Activities including campus real thing plans creates [inaudible] and it must Pay Attention to assuring students of color are not experiencing the same racism and virtual classrooms that they experienced an learning environments long before the pandemic rate thank you. Thank you dr. Harper. We appreciate all of you and appreciate with you staying within the limits. Under Committee Rule 8a we will question witnesses and if im in a ropeadope a recognizing the members and seniority order. Again in order to ensure that the members five minute rule is adhered to staff will be keeping track of time and will use a chime to this designate 11 minutes left and when time is up entirely. So little it annoying but nevertheless they will sound a short time when women is that the longer chime when time is separate if any member experiences technical difficulties during the hearing you should stay connected on the platform and make sure you use the mute button highlighted in red and call the committees i. T. Director sheila hoffner whose number has been provided. As the termini recognize myself for five minutes. Again just putting this in a better context as everyone has done as evidenced by the last recession we know that state Higher Education budgets are often the first to be cut earning economic downturns as states try to balance their budgets for the study by the federal budgeting policy priorities estimates that state will earn over the next three years but already states across the country of announced cuts for Higher Education spending per for simple california announced a 970 milliondollar cut to the university of california and California State University system. These budgets drive up pushing cost that ultimately place the burden on students and their families and reduce academic quality affecting tuition across across also limiting expenses on a host of other needs to be successful in their studies. Dr. Harper what was the impact of state Higher Education budget cuts on students in institutions in the Great Recession . Thank you for that question. The impact was for sure disproportionate on chronically underfunded institutions like Community Colleges historically black colleges and tribal colleges. Certainly the road to recovery for them was a much steeper climb then for highly resourced institutions. In many instances the financial pain of that time period still remains for many of those in situations and thats why im especially worried about the financial consequences of the pandemic on those institutions. We have seen this before and again with the Great Recession. Congress should pay particular attention in its investment to ensuring that oath institutions dont have a steeper hill to climb in their recovery. Thank you and following up on that because i think sometimes people feel that there doesnt need to be a federal role here so why is federal investment critical to institutions and wise in the State Government are in the case of other schools enough without that federal funding and what should occur without that immediate federal action to address these funding shortfalls . Shuan enter patients position in a Global Economy therefore federal investment with Higher Education, is really an investment into the economic security, the Homeland Security, and the viability of the United States. Thank you. I want to turn to doctor white. How about this multibilliondollar state cut, the ability to operate. I know you address the sum what. The focusing on those who are already having difficulty are a variety of reasons. But to deconstruct the reasons why students from the past as well. So in the spring term alone, we lost 337 million in lost revenue and added costs and do it in a helpful way. The state budget that was just approved by our governor, has a twitter 99 million cut in our base appropriation which is about 4. 6 percent of our operating budget. Importantly, the federal government can play role here. A few provide other Financial Support to the states. The 299 million will be reversed giving back to the csu. It does have an effect, these numbers are real and we will do our very best to meet the needs of our students. As any as we possibly can Going Forward. Susan doctor white. I think my time is up as well. And the next question. [background sounds]. In regards to what is already been mentioned. Timothy is a top priority for policy makers and for students and their families. And i know the governors have a track record of keeping the cost low rated but this pandemic is adding additional Financial Burdens on all students. I have certainly heard from institutions throughout the state of pennsylvania. That the covid19 is hard on students. I would like to get your thoughts on that including how has federal action helped the sector so far and foot could Congress Player what role can we or should we play in response to this pretty in helping to reduce additional cost on students. Thank you Ranking Members. Covid19 is certainly not in the strategic plan. So the cost of adapting are definitely quite large and great the institutions. And because of the operating model is not experiencing any pressures like many of our peer institutions. In primarily because much of our investments do not include operating other things that have the Revenue Sources. Brings to light activities etc. Pretty where are entitled and ee i think these names trend 20 pressures are highly now or certainly if you will the many challenges with the economic model that we have in Higher Education in the u. S. So i think in general, we should be focused first and foremost on the students. And when we consider the funding and support necessary to provide the instruction, the access and the improved digital experiences that they need to continue to progress in their programs. We ensure the students are not severely disrupted. And enough to whether not completing. I think i can be the guiding principle that the calm responsibly since how to provide the appropriate hayden stimulus. In the future impact of the pandemic can be managed but also for the longterm and the economic model of the Higher Education. Thank you in another department in congress have provided institutions temporary reprieve from Regulatory Burden throughout this crisis. And its appropriate to help adapt. What can we learn from that for the longterm. What regulations, what guidance should congress reevaluate the longterm and light of this pandemic. Regular question. Surely the rapid shift from traditional classrooms and replace it to a predominantly are not 100 percent structural model online. It does tree choir the rethinking of the students actually instruction and the credit hour and many if you consider the eligibility requirements and program and institution, even for the student aid. They are constructed around by conventional models of learning. So now, were having a rapid shift to a Technology Enabled model. The paradigms that were used are being reconstructed. I think it is appropriate. In the shortterm accommodation. And we should think about distance education how we should think about the learning progress. Etc. That those models should be contemplated. Sorry to cut you off. We is a number of accountability metrics like cohort default rates. And someone should we be looking at any of those in thinking about which should be continuing which should potentially be changed. Student success measures what we should predominantly be looking over. The completion rates, and also the payment and placement rates like loan repayment rates could be a good measurement of the effectiveness of the educational pathways. In a good example where the measures of outcome and learning other than institutional models. They give. Thank you very much. But now but to turn to the chair of the education committee. Thank you very much madam chair. I was quite willing to wait to the next person. But thank you and i appreciate it. [inaudible]. The head. Im sorry. I just got a notice that you wanted to be next in the queue. But mr. Carney if youre okay with that then we will hear from the doctor. Im fine. Go ahead. Thank you i appreciate it. Thank you again for your testimony today for the work that you do to help students and particularly one the student i know you have helped. I am very grateful for the Governors University of showed competency rate and education, which is an education with students progress based on mastery skills instead of time spent in the classroom. It is a successful model for many students. It and lowering and building portfolios for success. Can you describe what your experience, will these programs in the success of these student graduates compared to other institutions of Postsecondary Education. Im particularly interested in your low income and firstgeneration and minority students. Now how they have benefited their lives in knowing know that particular one low income first generational student that you have been a big help to pretty. Thank you surely would at the inventor of this education but we are one of those pioneers we today have over 191 graduates. In a competency based model was purely a function of our focus on the students. Particularly the working order. And so it really focuses on keeping the standards and bernie competences allowing the time. That enforces the ability for a better outcome and personalizes the student journey to increase the probability Student Success and hopefully allow them to leverage fire burning in doing their own pace. And for wg you read we are serving students in all 50 states pretty we have a significantly higher level Graduation Rate the nationally. We have a high employment rate. 95 percent. [background sounds]. And maybe more importantly, 97 percent of these graduates meet or exceed expectations that are ready for the job pretty vertically to your question about the income and underserved students. While we still seek out payment versus the white appearance and higher in comparison, the reality is they are achieving the higher rate and we have seen nationally and particularly in the length of military categories of individuals. So we are quite proud of her ability of the success of the individuals. So the Higher Education act is not have a Clear Pathway for the models. As the flexibility of current while restrained other institutions from creating these programs. What recommendations do you have to reform the aga to encourage the full reformation of high quality, programs. In my written testimony, we definitely believe it is time to fully embrace this with the education. As i recall, according to the competency based education, over 600 institutions of pilot programs developing a competencybased education with er and for like we were the disparity of current regulatory definitions. Being the design of it. And that could be program consideration and credit hours and predation and criteria around fulltime and pasting it. Makes it quite difficult to rapidly innovate and expand access to be highly effective and align the Program Models are really we do believe that legislation and regulatory progress should encourage innovations. As we also focused on the Student Success and outcomes rather than prescribing a model, our American Workforce will be better served. Thank you. You have built a strong connection with heavy geo and employers. How did this outreach deal for your success rate in oak other employers to figure academic programs. I think we believe that education to be the sure path opportunity. It has to be line with the market the present these opportunities. So we partner with workforce demands and therefore in libya that we bring partner directly with employers and experts from those fields to design the curriculum so the morning outcomes to match the outcomes with a fork or spring to be duped believe that its in the field of competencies brightness of the language of the employers are speaking more fluently. In Higher Education and intestines more work and employer portion model. To increase the alignment of the educational opportunities. Thank you. Enter i would like to submit for the record, facts related to funding by various entities. In the spending that has occurred over the years. We will commit that separately in thank you very much. I appreciate this. Thank you. Thank you. Now turn to mr. Carney for his five minutes. Thank you. Im glad to accommodate your schedule. So you collected in your testimony, over the state department, and for the department of Homeland Security however, this act does authorize the programs that does promote exchange students. An international donation. For Higher Education rams with countries all over the world. And from a pure monetary standpoint, is about a million International Students that are enrolled in the u. S. In about 41 billion in terms of revenues in the department of Congress Actually takes that tuition money has for the purposes of our balance. And obviously i think im sure you can attest to the policies of this administration which has shut down the visa. The ability. [inaudible]. And announcing that students from this country. [inaudible]. We need him regulatory instruction that is clear. And recognize that the virtual in a sense as we just heard, it is something that we are we have to think quickly right now. [inaudible]. Putting education a possible position and trying to protect the students. Can you touch on this from the opening remarks and help we have to look at the whole picture holistically. [inaudible]. Thank you for the opportunity to think through that point. It is really important. [inaudible]. That particular consideration in my written testimony. I somehow this administration would find some way to target International Students from other countries, it is so important to note that International Students make our colleges better. American students, the opportunity to interact with people. [inaudible]. And global democracy, if that is the case we need International Students here. To afford our students, that kind of learning opportunity. But we also, i think it is important to push against all of the xenophobic and xenophobic actions that we are saying in this administration. In most recent actions concerning ice the deportation of International Students produce ridiculous. They require stronger federal oversight. Thank you. In connecticut, cals remote 20000 International Students. For the mca rated in the press talking about student athletes in this program. One from croatia, one from poland and one from canada were not basically unable to get into the country. But to his credit, he points out and putting him now, particularly right here, going to the school. The issue here mba. [inaudible]. Obviously ice will allow visas for the athlete tour. The contradictions and the pressure. [inaudible]. International come here. Susan thank you very much. Madam chair. Yes your next. If youre ready to go. Go ahead. Inc. You need thank you chairman davis. For being here in the future of the Higher Education. The states fund and they are experiencing them for they have been cut funding on the education. In their experience and shortfalls. Are these cuts almost always disproportionately impact low income students. In institutes of color. And they will be forced to provide less money. And congress provided money and the cares act. But it doesnt come close to covering the full extent of the needs. The American Council on education has estimated that the institutions that students will need at least 46. 6 billion created by covid19. The a cef last recount him a notice estimated institutions may need an additional 74 million to cover just the cost of resuming in person hybrid instruction in the fall. In my district, university of California Riverside has already experienced a revenue loss of 22 million. In my first question. It is good to see you sir. As a result of covid19. [inaudible]. Doctor white. Timothy white yes, i have my mute button. Just in the spring term alone, for march through the end, these last three months. Weve got van 57 million and a loss rated the cost to company State University that was increase cost of mitigating the covid19 protective gear and buying laptops and giving them to students and faculty and staff pretty during a threemonth period time but hundred Million Dollars month. And that rate continues these next 12 months. Throughout the state of california has gutter state appropriations by 20,299,000,000. However the federal government can play a role in reversing pat. There was another federal stimulus package that is received in california before october 15th. In reverse trigger proposal that the governor has signed. And cut into state appropriation would be reversed for the next fiscal year which would be enormously as you point out the students in the first generation in the lowincome need a little extra support order to say engaged with their studies. You for that answer chancellor white. Its imperative for the congress of for the senate to act, in the future legislations. I know that we do for much of that in the cares act. Doctor pierce prayed one of the revenue loss is at your institution. Sharon thank you flat question. The impact is the same rated we are looking at a partially 850,000 in just auxiliary services alone. In our original 21 budget was based on our enrollment meeting that we did not anticipate loss rated for now projecting a deficit of anywhere between ten 20 percent in enrollments. And with that essential means 4. 2 million if we are down 10 percent. In 7. 78 million a week extended to a 20 percent loss pretty thats a Significant Impact on our overall budget that we would have to mitigate in ways being very detrimental and painful for our students. And have an overall impact in our community. Thank you. Doctor harper my question to you is what lessons can we learn from the last recession from the impact of the state budget cuts on accessibility and quality. Shuan we can certainly learn from the last time. Do you largely graceless approach to correcting longstanding equities. And its only going to fs, sustain those equitabl equitablyinequities. I think as i document dated might testimony, we have to bring a race forward race lands to thinking about covid19 recoveries. Because the truth is, they wait too too much evidence to confirm that covid19 has had a racially disproportionate impact of communities in color. Therefore it would be really reckless of us to attempt to remedy dozen equities in a largely graceless way rated i am not suggesting that the classes in the social economic statuses somehow reported and reported but there is a way that recent class mingle. In these United States of america. To really produce desperate outcomes. And for the people of color. [background sounds]. Thank you. Never going to turn to mr. Grossman but mr. Guthrie, if you would like to reclaim your one minute. And then i will come back and replay my one minute two. If you need extra minutes, is mr. Guthrie there. Mr. Guthrie. Okay, mr. Grossman, in get your one at the mr. Guthrie can come back and get this moment again. Thank you for an always love the sun online thanks. Because we can see beautiful decorating that we have in our members houses. You have are good job there. And i appreciate whats looking in behind you. Im avoiding room. Maybe next time a better looking room next time. Are all of your Classes Online pretty. Yes they are. Okay. Do you feel compared to a traditional college, from a High Percentage of your graduates amount with field based education. Is recuperated based upon the surveys that we utilize from the gallup and harrison others. When a pretty good indication from as well as the graduate surveys that there are graduates are better people. For the workforce, 97 percent of the employers said that they either meet or exceed expectations. And in the curriculum, competencies reporting significantly increasing the readiness of the graduates. And it can give me a comparative number that you have. At least in our surveys appointer annual report. Things like the gala for the parent surveys, if we look at the graduate centers, our graduates are 77 percent versus nationally 33 percent reading has prepared me for a job 76 percent. In the national was i think below 50 percent. From the standpoint yes, there is data that 97 percent of graduates meet or exceed expectations. In the other surveys is that i think the numbers i think we could provide afterthefact but i think in gallup is more than twice as likely than art brads are performing well. Glenn grothman that is incredible. Do you think that is because its online or do you think its the attitude. Could you duplicate these fantastic numbers in a more Traditional University if they would adapt the same interaction with her students. Scott there are three things that i do think that should be considered. That one is have you really think about the faculty engagement with the students and make it more personal if you will rated in the office hours and the one in one interaction becomes vitally important because the Online Education is constant. And we are entirely reason are designed such that is industry demonstrate efficiency because the learning, you can progress. This was very clear the time now becomes a variable versus sitting in a feed for 15 hours a week. For three or four months. So i think that the mentoring the faculty engagement model is highly important and noted that if you have a faculty who encourages your dreams and aspirations dimension amplifies likely to pick that school and say that is right for you. In the cause and the portability factor, heavily ways into the performance and of course designing curriculum and learning outcomes that are directly relevant to the ready graduates them for the workforce pretty dramatically increases graduate students out of action think we have opportunities to advance education. Glenn grothman im particularly concerned with the middleclass students i dont get helpless. We really but the middle class students at a disadvantage. You feel that students, that they come out whether it is higher or lower compared to Traditional University. Scott pulsipher we know for fact is actually lower. 87 percent actually utilize an agent some form receive it and some for their education. And on average, graduates are joining to try to find this really quickly. Theyre graduating with just over 12000 in debt. At graduation. That compared at 29000 per graduates. And more importantly, you can see that are default rates, are lower in the outperforming better than the National Averages. Our default rate is below 12 percent. Glenn grothman i guess what it means, that we need to set up in the universe did you know anything about that . Scott pulsipher we have more students. Glenn grothman guess you are giving me the hook rated i would like to thank you again for letting us see your beautiful house. It is just wonderful. Susan we are happy to hear from chairman spot next. From the education and labor committee. Pretty soon i think about interpreting thank you for holding the steering. I like to start with doctor lights. And you have talked about this a little bit but can you tell us exactly what one happen when the cuts go through. Our General Assembly passed the budget we came back for the schedule. And where we consider governors vetoes. La learned a new word. Unallocated. The 2 percent teacher raise, was unallocated. The counselors and the Community College construction of colleges all unallocated allocated because of the forecast. We assume that you learn another word. And they were resort. And reallocated. Could you tell us what would happen if you get laid off one of exit would have on the education if the cuts actually remained. Thank you rated several things to decrease our costs. We recently put in a hiring freeze across the system. Weve also banned travel initially for Health Reasons and therefore economic reasons. Sooner purest constituents gathering doing it virtually. We also have during the last eight years, a chancellor who has been in position. In put aside reserve but during that time, the state of california and so were going to be using some of that reserve. In order to mitigate the costs. But also the employee attrition issues that will lower costs as well. We think that our enrollments are steady. And here in the summertime educations are through the fall. They remain steady. This variable prussic and campuses. Some are going up rated some of the more rural ones are going down a little bit. But overall, the cost for the state budget of 290 million can be reversed if oversight the next bill. Neville continued for the axis in support of our students generally low income and middle income. As well as to our students of color prints we think it is vital. A role for the federal government to play here. Asking the state to maintain efforts of the state as a further contest. When the sellers come in, will make a huge difference. For our students Going Forward to earn their degrees. Thank you and doctor harper. From the department of education, and making it harder to get every calculation, for your Financial Aid if it is your job or have other reasons to watch her a recalculated. Shuan harper no, i have not followed that legislation. Okay. Theyre making it harder. And the problem would be if you lose your job, and are not able to make the anticipated contribution. Obviously if you cant recalculate the eight that is needed, then things can happen. But if youre not familiar with thats. Doctor pierce. You talk about reopening. A lot of things that you do not mention. How can you reopen without all the students being there before day one. Susan so with us being an nonresidential campus, we are following the cdc and Minnesota State Health Department in the state of minnesota is providing testing for those who wanted and needed credit and more able to walk in concert with them. So are screening procedures follow the guidelines from the cdc, the Minnesota State department of health. In the office of higher end. Shuan harper but that does that include addressing everyone before day one. Sharon pierce that is not pretty. Shuan harperwill part of ourreo. So were very much aware of the fact except that i recently more actually that we want to minimize ventilation in terms of air moving from one Geographic Area to another. We are looking at air quality. Also looking at space. So we are looking at our hvac system and the quality of air. In terms of the standards which is a way of measuring air quality versus space credit. Scott pulsipher. Shuan harper ms experience. But and recirculate the air which is been identified as problematic if they recently, the full they are out an incident outside and minute recirculate and cools the urges the best way you can can we run rockford with the ventilation has been identified as a problem. A lot of things about reopening that are problematic. And youre dealing with this the best you can and i appreciate it. Thank you madam chair. Thank you man chair. On the start, since many family that the federal cobra income eligible level, updated be better be distributed to students who really need help returning to school in the fall. Scott pulsipher a conflict question punishment. I do think there is no doubt shortterm contemplation for students who need to continue on the path. So even a w2, and the operational models have been impacted, and students in different disproportionate categories. A been largely impacted by the economic fallout. And so there are considerations around supporting non tuition related expenses. Whether that be housing, food, other methods we ourselves have established money in recent distributed pain over to over 4000 students. Those things can be contemplated. And they should be with shortterm and longterm considerations. Not only related to the pal individual students. But lower and middle income and upper middle income and how do you support that investment. For the longterm examples to be out lunch. A savings account, or even like a home equity line of credit. That allows to tap into needed aid and supports that will be part of their life skills. Variable. Enter my focus to a different subject. And Liability Protection. All of your cetaceans belong to advocacy groups and for Liability Protection when you first to doctor pierce. You talk about how important liability for in room training and fall. Thank you the question. We are a state institution. So we are covered under the state of minnesota. However, and very much aware that institutions have a great risk in terms of liabilities opening. Ellipsis thats how theyre going to be able to cover lawsuit the mailers as a result of students returning and faculty and staff returning to campus. To make come into contact with covid19 and may have increased hospital bills and things of the nature. Even though the schools are following every guideline provided by the cdc. In offices of Higher Education. The liability is real and has a chilling effect. Doctor white can you weigh in on that subject as well. Timothy white were looking at a 40 much online fall. Enter student progress and success. In helping safety students not only for students are faculty and staff. State hundred mile distance and down to san diego state. A lot of our students come from the other parts of the state. So americans are not posted to thanks for liability is one of the determining factors june essential virtual fall. One of the issues here that i think is important to recognize this pandemic, amusing test test. This is not a twomonth problem, this is a full 18 month problem. Minimum. So the possibility run policies cant be shortsighted. Some policies of come out and flex abilities seem to be tone deaf to the reality in the biology of the disease. The something that would not been able to get our hands around. Your situation is different at wg you looking you talk about liability problems. Noted, known in Person Instruction no campuses which are students congregate, this is not a circumstance that we understand all of the variables the coming to play and consider. I will definitely differ to my colleagues. Im not unaware of them. The software i personally spent my time and attention to do in order to give you good answer. Thank you. Next person, you have five minutes. Next person in michigan. Thank you. Yes, i am here. I appreciate it. I appreciate you convening this hearing on the super important topic. I would get very concrete about the difficulties in running a university or Community College during this pandemic. No one mentioned that covid19 african east lansing. This would like to a popular bar near one of our great institutions. Michigan State University. As of july 6, yesterday, is been 170 confirmed cases. 170. Confirmed cases of covid19 linkage and is one of our restaurants. Including 27 secondary cases meeting the people who did not visit that establishment because the virus from somebody else did. The entire lansing region has been moved back into the high risk category. Given the enormous impact of this outbreak. This is over just an eight day trade following that restaurant reopening. And its enclosed again. I bring this up because its a cautionary tale of the risk involved in reopening College Campuses this fall. You cant just think about classrooms in dorms. Colleges anchor entire communities. Restaurants, bars the source and so on. Cases of covid19 within the student body for faculty are not going to stay within the campus is false. Many reopening plans develop bias addition centered around native to test students pretty test faculty and staff. In the contain cases of covid19 on campuses. However, estimates show that the Testing Capacity most it states so far below what is needed to contain the virus. In fact, the lack of adequate testing is the lead story in todays new york times. Doctor white, when you decided to remain online for this fall and you say perhaps the whole academic year. The Testing Capacity and possible scenarios like the situation in east lansing i into that decision at all. Absolutely. Timothy white we are responsible for well over 530,000 people. With our employees and our students. The lump to your point exactly what is happening in east lansing. 50 million a month to do testing on a routine basis which is just not in the cards. And quite frankly to your point, if you test today and your negative and its an accurate test. It is mean you wont get up tomorrow. So we have gone to the notion of anywhere from about three 4 percent to maybe 10 percent forces authority in person. There are thousand toys in training, etc. Everything else will be done in virtual space because of the cost and the inefficiency really of helping people pandemic under control. We have like 25 percent of our employees are in the 60s bendable. And you consulted with faculty and staff when you made your decision as well assume. Local hel health officials, Infectious Disease experts, State Government, yes brought consultation across the system predict. Seems like you can easily see what is happening. And any college this can happen great party on campus anymore. Salome asked doctor pierce. If we and protesting a standup nationwide Contact Tracing program, do you think administrators across the country will fill better to reopening. Sing and we will have a national Contact Tracing and Testing Program in place. Would that affect your decisionmaking. It. I believe that what. We follow the guidelines by the state of minnesota. And cdc and the office of hybrid. Having a robust screening and testing policy and practice in place, would certainly play into our total decisionmaking you make us feel a lot safer about welcoming our students to campus. Anything that would enhance the process. Inc. Is much. I want say i feel so badly as a member of congress, which is supposed to governor full countries that were putting our wonderful administrators of ours, into this position. Having to deal with this pandemic when were not providing the National Infrastructure of Public Health. We are capable of providing. That would help them so much. With that i yield back. Thank you. Of virginia, please go ahead pretty. Thank you manager. Theyre assessing the new normal a psychologist reyna im not partial to that term summer calling it that. It is important that we evaluate how this pandemic unhealthy Higher Education and how we are able to move forward. In exploring opportunities for expansion. So it is a promising alternative a virtual connection. Emily does allow students flexibility in their individual response to covid19, is always in contributing access. And by eliminating certain barriers. The test creates new ones as well. As was already discussed in relation to lack of broadband access. Online merely offers more affordable options can be customized to meet the individual studies. Prior to the penniman, 20 percent student loan borrowers perform behind in the maintenance pretty this further emphasizes the importance of the affordable education. Student debt has climbed over 1. 5 trillion. But he served in the Virginia Assembly before coming to congress, after the bill inspired by the university structure. And work with the colleges. In any private colleges that were willing to develop programs for online degree at a lower cost. The. 24000 dollars per academic year. In many great institutions, its important that is affordable to students. Innovative paths forward while serving congress. So i asked, another you mentioned 77 percent and wg you alumni respond is reporting that they are education was worth the cost compared to the National Average of 38 percent. That is a to the work you put forward. As a covid19 pandemic disrupted lives across the country. You note in your testimony that many people need midcareer riesling. Where some barriers stopping people from seeking skillbased education. And how can we help with the economic downturn. Figure for the question pretty think one of the increasing evidence for sure but learning to earning if you will, or education work. What else will go through the future. What is the Program Design and whether they are eligible for federal aid is minibar lower low skilled workers need to advance their careers and protections predict for example, many such programs, whether they be technical, or short micro can rental as they are often referred to. These often upbeat eligibility requirements. Others a fulltime attendance or elements related to a degree seeking a dental a credit our model. These are typically deflated within the scope of federal regulation. The governance Higher Education. Generally the first time fulltime students whose pursuing an associates or degree of some sort. What we are seeing as now increasingly entering into the space. State internships and apprenticeship are even bargaining with the Technical Colleges. Or advancing the availability of these programs. Gives opportunities for us to address not only the first time students but also the rescaling or upscaling of the students. Thank you and i appreciate it. I yield back. Susan thank you thank you mr. Klein and out i turned to the next person. You have five minutes. Thank you madam chair. I think witnesses all for their participation today. My question is directed for doctor pierce and doctor white. And then i will submit this for the record. And divided over 14 million in Emergency Support for these positions for the students from the effects of the pandemic. At least half of the funds emergency financial the students while the other have to be spent on institution expenses. In the delivery of the education. So distribution of funds and administration. And directly to the relief payments. [inaudible]. Since the beginning of the pandemic. I like to hear from the doctor white. He is the federal think that they received today. And how you approach the environment in which the emergency and specifically about how you prioritize with the students with most need. The cares funding they received. In one of their services that you have. Timothy white thank you for the. Consider the funding in terms of the intent of congress. To meet the needs of students and especially students who had higher rates. We also the students credit votes, part of the funding formula. We identified eligible students in each received an award of 100 right and that the supplemental funds. [inaudible]. And we would also help total grants. So we can afford additional funding. Any such as housing, food, childcare, technology, transportation things of that nature. So that is how we disburse funds. It is very important for us to have neck with a lens in distributing the funds. Sharon pierce weve used additional funds to pay for increased costs funds that when the second half of the funding that arose for students. Library services and licenses and things of that nature. Internet access to computers, and the students could have access grade and we anticipate spending a significant amount of funds for instructional costs. And this may be below doctor whites paygrade. But do you have any comments doctor white. On what doctor pierce just sent rated. Timothy white we just distributed 280 3m dollars to directly to Financial Institutions pretty clean those who lack documentation could access to funds. And to ensure that students in the progress and simplicity. 500 up over 5000 in awards. And used within the student body which is over 60 percent of her students. [inaudible]. And from the bottom up. And then [inaudible] thats just as great as the district i represent. And ive been to your institution, your system. I have additional questions to ask, and i would submit it for the record. Please respond to them. I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. And now i believe dr. Murphy . Dr. Murphy, North Carolina . He was here earlier. We have, lets see. Im going to go on to the rest of the democrats that are there. Is there i just want to be sure [inaudible conversations] chairwoman davis, dr. Murphy does appear to be Still Available in the participant list. Oh, okay, great. Dr. Murphy . Are you there . Well, well come back to dr. Murphy madam chair, mr. Widens was on previously as well. I dont know if he is still okay. Dr. Murphy is visible. Oh, terrific. Okay. Im going to go back because i didnt see him. Dr. Murphy, youll need to unmute, sir. I consider myself unmuted. Thats great. You have five minutes. Thank you guys very much for your time. I want to actually ask different members of the committee to answer this question. Help me walk through this, because i think weve lost a little bit Higher Education, a little bit about what our purpose is in some ways, and i want to say, you know, a lot of the industries and everything, obviously, the nations been hit with a calamity the like of which we didnt expect. So, you know, we want to train and educate our individuals that go off to colleges and universities to lead lives of constant learning. And thats where it is, its not technical school, per se, its allowing critical minds to think. And im wondering though that in and of itself though where industry is, example, we have times where we have to cut our belts and, you know, trim our fat. And given the fact that money now flows very, very freely from the federal government to colleges and universities really with no strings attached, im wondering how and what suggestions each of you could offer that colleges and universities could tighten their belt, areas that they could. Where heretofore its been basically a blank check from the federal government, and now given the shortage [inaudible] across every industry in the country, where colleges and universities will fall in that line. So if everybody can just do it in sequence, i look forward to your response. Sure. Ill weigh in on this one first. I want to acknowledge that so many college and University President s as well as Campus Reopening Task forces are working incredibly hard, and they are figuring out how to bring recovery plans to life understanding that theyre going to be there are going to be really tight fiscal constraints. I wonder if that energy might be better placed on figuring out how to effectively educate students in a virtual environment at least for this fall semester and thinking about how to do that well. It feels to me like that is a much less expensive project in terms of both the expenditure of human and fiscal resources. I frankly find it annoying that so many campuses are scrambling to figure out how to play football this fall and how to insure physical distancing in stadiums. It just feels to me like the money would be better spent trying to figure out how to close the Digital Equity access gap and, again, how to better prepare faculty to teach online at least for this fall semester. All right, thank you. Thank you. Thank you, dr. Harper, for your comments. I would like to just speak about technical knowledge. In terms of that is exactly where we are spending our time, our effort and our resources and figuring out how to make sure that our students have the same quality level of an online experience, hybrid experience that they would [inaudible conversations] delivering instruction. However, there are some career and technical programs that simply cannot be with offered in an online environment. For example, air force im sorry, Aircraft Maintenance technicians, external crediting bodies and the work that they must do requires that they be face to face with their instructors so that theyre able to demonstrate a level that is acceptable for the faa. So it is incumbent upon us to spend the time and the resources to make sure that were able to deliver that type of instruction to students in a safe environment that protects the staff who work in those [inaudible] [inaudible conversations] absolutely requires interaction. So were balancing the needs of our students, the needs of the program, the needs of external the accrediting bodies so that we can meet our mission. Those are all incredibly important things for us to do. We are balancing the need to control spending by delaying [inaudible] and different types of construction programs that [inaudible conversations] thank you. I want to make sure everybody gets a chance. I appreciate the answer. Absolutely. Thank you. Congressman murphy, tim white here. An educated citizenry is a public good. Equity matters, so federal [inaudible] and for msi and [inaudible] institutions matter. Education really is a matter of social justice at all times all right, let me ask you this. I get all the matters stuff. I get all the matters stuff. How are you going to trim costsesome. We have trimmed costs by decreasing hiring, decreasing travel, going together with other universities on procurement at better rates and eliminating unnecessary activities that can be postponed in terms of construction and may maintenance. But its really important to recognize that the [inaudible] by the feds is an investment in the nations future. Unemployment is onehalf if you have a degree versus not at any given rate of unemployment. So its not just looking at the cost, its looking at the return on investment. I understand that. I understand that. I have a terminal degree, i e appreciate that. One other individual, could i get our other [inaudible] yeah, thank you, congressman murphy. I think to get to the heart of your question one of the considerations should be simply to consider what is the percent of an operating budget thats directly on instruction. Advancing Student Outcomes and the attainment of their credentials. And then the question is for those costs that are not related to instruction, what are the Revenue Sources for those. I would just echo what dr. Harper said which is the emphasis and the priority, i think, should really be focusing on how does an increasing percentage of operating budgets focus on teaching and the transfer of learning to the individuals who are seeking and acquiring a credential. Theres no doubt that universities have taken on many different purposes and missions, much of that [inaudible] emerging adult experience. But that can be a very costly undertaking with a very different operating and economic model, and now its been disrupted by covid. So i think one of the considerations is what percent of operating budgets are dedicated to [inaudible] and increasing [background sounds] thank you very much. Yield the rest of my time, thank you. Thank you, dr. Murphy. I now move to mr. Harter of california . Wonderful. Thank you so much, madam chairman for five minutes. Well, thank you. Thank you so much to the panel for participating. In my district the schools are right now announcing their efforts to resume oncampus instruction. What exactly thats going to look like this fall clearly is going to be very different from what it might have been last year. And while our csu will hold classes primarily online, i think its really important to make sure that our educators and their families and the students themselves are getting guidance for reopening. I wrote a letter to secretary devoss with bipartisan support asking for guidance from the department of education, and i continue to hear from teachers and parents that this is their top concern as were going through this reopening process, that were making sure were doing it safely with the right guidance to folks on the font line. Front line. Dr. White, my first question is for you. It is really going to be uncharted territory whether schools choose to do so in the fall semester or if they choose to do so later on. What measures, what guidance and support would you hope to see from the department of education in advance of resuming oncampus classes . Well, i think, you know, the cdc has been helpful with their guidelines for and theyre guidelines. The thing that i think really matters here theres such variability across the state of california, let alone across the country with respect to disease progression. We cannot change the biology of the disease. But what we can do is change the Human Behavior around that biology. And here in california and others have commented in other states in the union where things have started to recess calculate again. Recess calculate again. Reescalate again. We have a forecast thats a very strong forecast of a greater wave of this disease coupled with influenza come october, november. And another wave coming in sort of march, april. So our planning horizon has been for the longer term that ive been trying to figure out how we get through the next two weeks or two months. And i think that is a fundamental mindset that took a while through collaboration with our faculty, staff, students and communities to go from how do we preserve inperson to how do we move to a virtual and back away from that as the disease progression allows us to do. Fundamentally different approach. Thats helpful. And my next question actually comes from that, its around connectivity. I think making sure that we have the right infrastructure in place is going to be really important. This pandemic has exposed the Digital Divide in rural areas such as my district. The president of [inaudible] shared with me that shes concerned of the lack of access of wifi and internet, in the 21st century, lack of Internet Access for our students is simply not acceptable. Dr. White, what can we do to help connect students to the internet, and what can the federal government do to support you in those efforts . Well, i think the university, you know, weve had a lot of our campuses create wifi spots in their parking lots, provide Security Services in the parking lots is so students that drive stay by themselves in their car and do their work. There is the [inaudible] internet capability that perhaps a College Student from stan state could be close to an Elementary School [inaudible] somewhere in sacramento or down in fresno and still get access to the internet. The Governors Council on Postsecondary Education that gavin newsom appointed myself and other heads of public and private Higher Education in the state has made getting rid of the broadband Digital Divide one of the Top Priorities for california. And this is a place where i think federal investment could help jumpstart that, if you will, to get more dollars [background sounds] achieved for equity and social responsibility Going Forward is to remove that divide. Thank you. Thats a big focus for a lot of students in our area. Finally, dr. Harper, i have a question for you. We know the Great Recession disproportionately impacted education in underserved communities with reduced enrollment, higher dropout rate, fewer students graduating with large debt and no jobs. What can we do to better support our students in this pandemic . I think it is important for us to get ahead of the predicted outcomes and recognizing that in prior periods everything that you just named had a disproportionate [inaudible] in our recovery efforts. [background sounds] all right. Thank you, with that i yield back. Thank you so much to our panel, and thank you, madam chairman. Thank you, mr. Harder. And i believe mr. Watkins of kansas is with us. Mr. Watkins . You have five minutes. Thats right. Thank you very much. Thanks to the panel for offering your time and expertise. What are the practical ways colleges can remain affordable for students . Has the pandemic changed that or created any new changes to making schools more affordable . I do think the pandemic has accelerated a trend towards an increasing kind of digital [inaudible] really Leverage Technology and advancing the students ability to access support and experience access, a afford and experience education. There is no doubt when you have a digital approach to things youre going to remove a lot of elements of an operating budget that arent necessary to that. I think thats definitely been one of our core models, is that how do you, you know, focus the largest percent of your operating budget specifically on instruction, how do you with make it more interactive with faculty, how do you provide a higher student to faculty ratio, how do you make sure the technology is accessible anytime, anywhere so students are learn anytime, any place. A lot of those elements are addressing things that are not related to the acquisition of knowledge, skills and abilities that they need and so you can take that out of the cost. Ultimately, we are at this point where i think we are fundamentally going to start addressing the arc of the cost curve in Higher Education and bending it down rather than just finding out, or, you know, devising new funding mechanisms. So those are opportunities that are now being accelerated because of this rapid shift to digital. And to dr. Harpers point, i would simply add that the investment required to enable and expand the Digital Infrastructure necessary to cover 100 of our individuals in america would be far less than investing in campuses and buildings, etc. , to try to make a campus available within 15 minutes of every person. Like you can now bring education to every american. How do we make sure that the cellular networks, fibroer optic cables, whatever it may be, is fully accessible and aid programs that cover technology, you know, devices, etc. , that are necessary for students to learn. And that hasnt typically been contemplated, but yet were willing to afford accommodations for housing and living and other things like that that can be very expensive. With understood, thank you. And you did touch on this in your answer, but id like you to maybe speak of any other mistakes institutions of Higher Learning are making with respect to their business models, and those schools do better to adopt to the changing landscape in the postsecondary instruction . Well, i think the first and most important thing is to really as an institution ask yourself the question of what is your primary purpose and how are you solving for that purpose and let Everything Else become secondary to that. And when, if your primary purpose is fundamentally about teaching individuals and helping them achieve the credential they came to achieve, then youre going to focus all of your faculty design, your cost and investment model, your pedagogical engagement, peertopeer interactions around learning. And when you do that, i think you can start to slot bump a lot of investments that may remove that. Quite frankly, because we were designed in the age of the internet, we view place, space, classrooms, campuses constraints to access. We also view them as constraints to even advancing equality of instruction and learning because you can now personalize in a way learning in an online digitallynative environment that you cant necessarily do in a classroom of 30, 100 or even 500 students. So i think its just an opportunity for leaders and for individuals like yourselves and legislators and regulators to consider how is Technology Shaping the future of [inaudible] [background sounds] all right, thank you, sir. And thats all ive got. I yield back. Thank you, mr. Watkins. We now turn to mrs. Lee of nevada. Thank you. Thank you, madam chair. And id hike to thank all the panelists like to thank all the panelists for their insight today. I represent Southern Nevada, and we were hit, obviously, during the Great Recession and now are impacted tremendously during this time. What the Great Recession taught us, it was a lot that may be happening now in the Higher Education space and in our economy. Following that recession, many people sought out quick opportunities to gain skills and training in order to rejoin the work force. This trend was also coupled with loosened accountability standards which resulted in exponential growth of forprofit colleges. In my in Southern Nevada alone we saw 30 forprofit schools close within the last ten years. Data suggests were seeing this pattern again now, and we know the track record of forprofit colleges and their predator tactics used to defraud students. In particular itt tech are a couple of institutions that abrupt hi closed their doors leaving tens of thousands of students trapped with worthless degrees and mounds of debt. Unfortunately, secretary devos borrower defense rule has made it nearly impossible for them to seek relief for this burden, setting the precedent that fraudulent, bad actor schools are cobbled by the government with while students and taxpayers are stuck footing the bill. Id hike to ask this question like to ask this question of dr. Harper, and others are welcome to chime in. What do you think congress can do right now to prevent predatory bad actor schools from preying on students during this recession . I think that the Obama Administration began to make some really serious traction on this and, obviously, lots of those efforts have been rolled back. I think we need to restore those efforts. You know, i think about this, and i care very deep lu deeply about it because we know that it is people of color and more specifically low income women of color, single mothers, working mothers who are really the target of the predatory practices. We owe it to those women of color to safeguard them from, you know, being preyed upon when they are most vulnerable. As we see joblessness rates increase across the country, whos most affected . Africanamericans. So when those people are out of work and, you know, thinking about, you know, being out of work, affording them an opportunity to upskill, reskill, you know, pursue Higher Education, we must protect them from being preyed upon by forprofit institutions. Ill move on to dr. Pierce. How does the departments failure to protect students from predatory actors hurt the ability of Community Colleges to serve these students . It has a severe impact on our ability to serve the students. They arrive having used up a great deal of their eligibility or having used up all of their pell eligibility. They also frequently arrive already in debt because theyve also taken on Additional Debt in addition to having used up their pell eligibility. They arrive with credit or credentials that dont lead to a degree, that dont lead e to a living wage, and it makes it very difficult for students and limits what theyre able to do. But they start 10 feet behind the start line, and it makes it that much more difficult for them to move forward to get to a place where they can actually complete a credential and earn a loving wage. So instead of a program maybe taking 12 months, it takes 24 months, and they are steadily increasing their debt. [background sounds] with a deficit to begin with. Thank you. This one final question, the pandemic has brought, obviously, great uncertainty, and weve seen many choosing to delay or forgo college altogether. And im concerned that some students may never return. Im even more concerned about figuring out exactly who these students are. We know that fafsa renewals among students of low income families has dropped about 8 compared to the same time last year. Dr. Pierce and dr. White, have your institutions seen a decline in enrollment, and you expound upon what type of students youve seen a dechain in . Decline in . At California State University weve not seen a decline in enrollment, but thats because of a massive effort by our faculty, staff and administrators to reach out and recreate in a virtual space all the sort of things that students, firsttime students as well as [background sounds] expect from us. [inaudible] so thats our approach. So far, so good. Well see in the fall how it works out, but thats where its headed. Thats good news. Thank you. My time is up [inaudible] thank you. Mr. [inaudible] of pennsylvania . You are there. Yes. Thank you, madam chair. Thank you very much. To our witnesses, thank you very much for being with us and for your Important Information on this important topic. Over the last 30 years, Public Schools costs for tuition, room and board, total costs tripled after being adjusted for inflation. And private schools have doubled. Now, i certainly know the argument. I was on our state board of the Public Schools went up cost more because in some states there were cutbacks in Education Funding from the states. But even if its double after, after being adjusted for inflation, in the Business World costs largely due to technology and efficiencies remained were cut in many cases or remained relatively neutral outside of, of course, payroll costs. So id just ask mr. Pulsipher to start off as a background as a business person in the technology field, youre now at a college, what is how do you explain that . The high level of increased costs over the last 10 years, 20 years, 30 years to all, virtually all Higher Education universities and colleges . Yeah. Its a much longer answer than time allows, but maybe let me highlight two things that i think about. One is there is a investment or an asset and operating model the utilization of which doesnt support the total consumption. And so when you consider that for most classroom or campusbased, residencebased models of that, you really have to dramatically increase the utilization so that you can get the long run average cost curve to decline. Otherwise the support of operations for the building, for the facilities, etc. , that is going to ever increase in cost, and its very difficult to not let [inaudible] grow with it such that that if you fix enrollment, youre not going to grow the revenue to cover that increasing cost. And there is a dynamic of that economic model important to know that over the last several decades the percentage of operating budgets that is sent on instruction has been declining over time. As the emerging funds that are spent on student life or Even Research and athletics and other things that has been growing as a percent of offering. Theres one other dynamic that i dont think is often talked about which is this notion that quality is somehow measured by scarcity or exclusivity. Such that in that model you have this perverse behavior where if you actually increase price, the quality goes up especially if demand goes up. And so you have this weird model in Higher Education that there is no constraint, if you will, on institutions to raise their price and having no impact on demand. [inaudible] well, whats more of a concern is a student comes in whether the university costs 25,000 a year or 60,000 a year and what seems to be and i dont get good answers on this in previous testimony. When they review their major, how much guidance is received . You take their major into consideration, you take their level of loans that theyre taking out. Do students feed back on whether theyre on track to achieve that major in a fouryear period . You know, loans outstanding. So theres no big surprises at the end that they cant get a job for more than 38,000 a year say in many cases, and yet they have 60,000 in loans. Now, it doesnt seem to me, and im going to ask, im going to ask you all, is that type of feedback strong . A responsibility to be providing that feedback to the students . Congressman, this is tim white. Our tuition if fees is 7,300 a year. Half of our students graduate without debt. And those that do have debt, its well below the National Average. Were about 17,000 in debt. With analytics we provide a lot of advice to students to pursue their dreams, keeping on track of degree. Weve had a Graduation Initiative in place now for several years, and were having alltime the highs [inaudible] in any way you calculate Graduation Rates. Bending the cost curve is just not Online Colleges, they can do that. During the last eight years, we raised tuition one time for 237. In nine years. And we were certainly, before covid, we had returned to the postrecession budgets and serving 40,000 more students every year if graduating [inaudible] more studentses every year than we did before. So there are ways of bending cost curves and keeping costs down to the states [inaudible conversations] thank you. Congratulations, those are good stats. Appreciate it. All right, thank you. I yield back, madam chair. Thank you, mr. Meuser. Ms. Bonn amici, you have five minutes. Thank you so much, thank you to all the witnesses. Just to follow up on the comment from my colleague and chancellor whites response, the value that people contribute to our communities and to our society is not necessarily measured in the amount of their salaries, which is exactly why we have things like the Public Service loan forgiveness program. I want to start by saying that technology and Online Learning have a place especially during a Global Pandemic. I would be very concerned if were having a conversation about the trend of Higher Education moving to Online Learning. Portland State University here in oregon just did a survey of their students. 70 responded that the they have a challenge with the transition to remote learning. 82 have difficulty focusing on remote instruction and prefer face to face learning. Importantly, 50 say they dont have access to reliable internet service, and a third of the students with accessibility accommodations said they had very serious challenges with accommodation. So we know that there are a lot of inequities in Higher Education even before the pandemic, and this pandemic has exacerbated so many of those. Ive spoken with College Students precoronavirus of the challenges of housing, food insecurity, childcare for students who are parents. And now with most classes moving online or moved online and most Campus Housing and dining halls closed, students are really facing these sudden emergency expenses. We know historically unrepresented students, underrepresented have been disproportionately affected. And dr. Harper talked about. A recent survey found a 19 percentage point gap in basic needs in security between black students and their white peers. So, dr. Harper, can you talk more about the nontuition expenses and how those contribute to gaps . And i really want to get in time for another question, but id like your input in that, please. Sure. Ill be concise. It is really important to think about the important work that colleges like Compton College do to insure that students have their Transportation Needs met, that they have access to food and so on. And that we dont have a solution for that necessarily if we go too far online. I do think that Compton College really stepped up in, you know, a really inpressive way during the pandemic to, you know, partner with grubhub and with other institutes to get meals to students and their families. But im not sure that that kind of model necessarily is scalable. What i think is more scalable is what Compton College was doing before the pandemic where they were centralizing those resources. So we need more of that as we return to campuses at some point. We need a serious strategy to continue to meet students basic needs. I appreciate that, and i also very much appreciate, dr. Harper, your statement that Higher Education is a public good. And i think certainly chancellor white established that with his comments about whats happening in the california system. I was a state legislator during the Great Recession and know how hard it can be to balance the budget, but im also the graduate of a Community College, Public University and a public law school. And recognize the value of these institutions and the [inaudible] when education budgets are cut. So we did provide some funding in the bipartisan cares act, but i know thats not enough as was discussed. What specifically, and this is to dr. Harper and dr. Pierce and chancellor white if theres time, what specifically is needed to make sure that Higher Education institutions can continue to provide academic programming . And i want to emphasize that that is true of all students and close those equity gaps that are so critical. And maybe well start with dr. Pierce and see if theres time for dr. Harper and the chancellor. We are really committed to making sure that students [inaudible] services. And so funding to help us meet those needs is critical. Students need transportation, they need childcare, they need access to Affordable Health care, they need access to Mental Health counseling, they need access to collegiate recovery programs, they need access to peer mentoring and tutoring, and they need access to their learning community. But some of our students the act of coming on campus and being on campus is what inspires them to persevere. Being disconnected from the campus is very difficult for them. Everyone doesnt have a quiet, stable environment in which to learn at home, so we need to be able to maintain [inaudible] computer labs, specialty software, career and technical programs where students have to perform skills that must be done [inaudible] thank you. I see my time has expired, but i will ask dr. Harper and chancellor white just on the record to respond to that question. Thank you and i yield back. Thank you, ms. Bonamici. And i hopefully, mr. Smucker, can i just ask you as far as you know, is there anybody on the line that ive worked through here, i dont see anybody waiting. I think youre correct, madam chair. I think were through [inaudible] adams. Okay. I will get, i will get to ms. Adams, absolutely. I just wanted to double check in with mr. Smucker. Okay, great. [inaudible] adams is next followed by [inaudible] dr. Adams, you have five minutes. Thank you, madam chair. Thank you to the Ranking Member as well. Thank you for convening the hearing today. And to the witnesses, thank you for your extraordinary testimony. Historically black colleges and universities, tribal colleges, universities, minorityreceiverring institutions and Community Colleges are primarily Public Institutions that serve many of our countrys low income students and students of color. However, these institutions are chronically underfunded, they have fewer resources to support their students. Dr. Harper, how state budgets disportion naughtily impact hbcus, public [inaudible] and their ability to continually concern. [inaudible] as a proud graduate of albany State University, a public historically black university, i especially appreciate this question. State budget cuts will affect those institutions in withdraws withdraws in ways the state appropriation has affected them. Theyve been inequitable for far too long and, this far, you know, when theyre cut therefore, when theyre cut, those cuts are [inaudible conversations] on chronically underfunded institutions. I really appreciated chance or hour whites earlier chancellor whites earlier response to the question where he named the price of what it costs to be a student at the California State University. You know, so many hbcus, tribal colleges and Community Colleges effectively educate students of color with far too few resources. Its quite remarkable, as a matter of fact, how they make so much out of so little. Just imagine if we were able to finance them appropriately. They could, in fact, together they could help us close Racial Equity gaps across all industries if only we would invest in them equitably. Absolutely. Well, certainly, thank you for your question. I am a proud twotime graduate of North Carolina state a m university, the largest public hbcu in the country right now, and im a 40year retired professor from Bennett College which is a private school. But ive been reading that some of our nations hbcu could face enrollment loss of up to 20 in the fall due to the nature of this pandemic and impact its d the impact its going to have an low income schools. So, dr. Harper, schools like hbcu are heavily tuitiondriven, rely heavily on tuition for revenue. How should congress support them at this time, and do we how do with we prevent what we saw during the 2008 recession where many of our schools, in particular hbcus, faced enenrollment drops and, therefore, fiscal calamity down the role . Is there a way to change that tuitionbased model, in your opinion. Sure. I think that federal investments that are specifically e earmarked for bolstering enrollment at hbcus would be incredibly helpful. Just six months ago i included a project that was funded by [inaudible] Gates Foundation in which i was looking at hbcu enrollment. The good news is that enrollments actually have not declined over time, they have flatlined. I think with some specific federal funding, that those institutions could, in fact, invest in the very Expensive Technology that my university and others like it use to recruit students and to [inaudible] but, you know, those institutions dont have the money. When you have to make a choice between repowering the sidewalk repairing the sidewalk to insure that students safe or investing in technologies that are going to allow you to, you know, really bolster your enrollment and attract more students, most president s are left with [inaudible] the choice of having to repair the sidewalk. Im sorry. Well, thank you for your question. I really want to get some input from the other panelists in terms of the importance of the meticulous department of education oversight over the cares act funds were disbursed and used by institutions. You may have to send me this in writing, but i think weve got one more minute. So, dr. White or dr. Pierce, if you could respond. Yeah. We, here we believe in inclusive excellence for all our students whether they have documentation or not, whether theyre International Students, whether theyre from florida or california. So we supplementinged the cares act with our own money in order to make anybody who had a covid19induced expense was able to be supported. Its incomprehensible to me that the department of education would exclude those students because they are part of the fabric of Higher Education bringing perspectives from around the world and around the country [inaudible] okay. Well, im out of and thanks, thanks to all of our panelists for your responses and for your participation today. I yield back, madam chair. Thank you. Thank you, dr. Adams. And i want to go back now to mr. Norcross. Is mr. Norcross available . And then mr. Castro. Mr. Castro, you have five minutes. Thank you, chairwoman. Thank you, chairwoman, and thank you to the panelists for your testimony today. Okay, i am back [inaudible conversations] i had a few questions about what you believe the longterm impacts of covid19 will be on Higher Education, and let me preface my question with this when the pandemic broke, i had conversations with both superintendents in my district, k12 the institutions and also leaders of the Higher Education institutions. Our twoyear colleges, Community Colleges and our fouryear universities x. They all expressed [inaudible conversations] some different ones, but, for example, many of the fouryear universities said that they were seeing students drop off a plan to enroll in their institutions in favor of Community Colleges simply because of the fear that they wouldnt be able to afford to go to those fouryear institutions any longer. You know, weve seen that the pandemic, especially in certain states like mine in texas, has stretched on longer and longer. And given that in Higher Education theres often this inverse relationship between cost and completion, in other words, the placeses that are cheapest to go to often have the lowest completion rates. What is the longterm impact of covid19 on where students go to college, their ability to complete and also the support that our colleges and universities are able to offer for them . And i open that up to any of the panelists. Thank you, congressman, for that question. Ill just go ahead and offer a perspective on it. Theres little doubt that individuals and their a families are consumers of Higher Education and what we offer. When you have Something Like a pandemic create real disruption in the Value Proposition that was previously contemplated, that is going to change how the consumers of education think about it. And so simply being the father of two children who are currently in the traditional model of Higher Education as well as a graduate of it but also being the leader of a online, competencybased education, i think the dynamic is such that if many of the, you know, really beneficial emerging adult experiences, social aspects, student engagement, you know, things not part of the Value Proposition because of longstanding or longtenured effects of Something Like the pandemic, then the return on investment for the cost that has to be paid is going to be a challenge. Such that many individuals, i do think, will start focusing more specifically on how can i still acquire the learning and credentials i need to advance towards the opportunities i require, and what is the more affordable [inaudible] i can get for that if many of the values i previously had available to me are not available. The other thing i do anticipate is you will see an emerging number of, you know, employers and alternative pathways that will start emerging as you also consider the 40 plus million adults and 10 million workers that are going to be displaced because of either technology pandemic that need to be reskilled and upskilled. And that fouryear degree pathway is not going to be fast enough. So you will see merging credentials and pathways [inaudible] but the working learners and adults who need to find a pathway to their next [inaudible] thank you. [inaudible conversations] congressman . I can be very quick and say exact what you described is exactly the mission of community and Technical Colleges, meeting the needs of student as they merge. I anticipate over time you will see an increase in enrollment in Community Colleges as people come back to seek shortterm credentials, longterm credentials, transfer programs as well as opportunities to skill up and to transfer into different areas of growth. Community and Technical Colleges are affordable, they are a Value Proposition x they offer excellent and they offer excellent opportunities to retool our economy. Thank you. Congressman cats troh, one cast troh [inaudible] this learning deficit that is appearing in our k12 system where the interruptions are happening in Public Schools that will lead to a disproportionate across the spectrum of race and ethnicity e and income level, that those students when they do finally get to a Community College or a fouryear university or an Online College will have a different set of preparation, and therell be some learning deficits that the colleges and universities are going to have to deal with. We may not be causing the problem, but its going to be ours to resolve at the end. Thats going to fundamentally change, i think, the relationship of public Higher Education in particular in the years and decades ahead. Well, thank you, i appreciate it. And i yield back, chairwoman. Thank you very much. Appreciate that. And i believe that weve come to the end of members who are ready for questions . Im going to just check our grid again to be sure [laughter] anybody come in that we didnt see in . Okay. Then i wanted to just remind my colleagues that pursuant to committee practice, materials for submission for the hearing record must be submitted to the Committee Clerk within 14 days following the last day of the hearing. So that would be by the close of business on july 21st of 2020. The material submitted must address the subject matter of the hearing, and only a member of the subcommittee or an invited witness may submit materials for inclusion. Documents are limited to 50 payments each, documents longer than 50 pages will be incorporated by an internet link that you must provide within the required time frame. But please recognize that years from now that link may no longer work. Pursuant to House Resolution 965 and the accompanying regulations, items for the record should be submitted electronically by mailing submissions to [inaudible] and labor [inaudible] member offices are encouraged to submit materials before the hearing or during the hearing at the time the member makes the request, and the record will remain open for 14 days per committee pass for additional submissions after the hearing. And without objection, i would like to enter those following reports into the record. I want to thank our witnesses, certainly, for their a participationed today. Participationed today. Its been outstanding, and we know e that there are many more questions out there. We are all anxious and worried, quite honestly, about whats going happen. Andso we know how importants it is that your d important it is that your remarks have been heard today. Members of this subcommittee may have some additional questions for you, and weed asked the witnesses to please respond in writing, and that hearing record had been open for 14 days in order to receive those responses. I want to remind my colleagues that pursuant to committee practice, questions e for the hearing record must be submitted to the Majority Committee staff or Committee Clerk within 7 days and questions submitted must address the subject matter of the hearing. I now want to recognize the distinguished Ranking Member for his closing statement. Mr. Smucker, thank you for being with us today and would welcome your comments. Thank you, madam chairwoman. I agree this was a great discussion, and i appreciate you scheduling this hearing. I want to thank the witnesses as well for all of your testimonies, for your insight, your perspectives and for the great work that each of you are doing in your institutions. We heard from all of you about the challenges that the schools have faced in the spring as the coronavirus forced institutions to quickly shift to Virtual Learning environments. We also learned that there will be further obstacles that schools have to grapple with in the fall. The pandemic accelerated the underlying trends that are shaping Postsecondary Education. Increasingly, students are demanding a better return on investment, theyre demanding ondemand education and the ability to fluidly transition between the classroom and the work force. The simple fact is that the pandemic exposed what members on our side have been asking for for some time, that Congress Must really pass Real Health Care ea or higher ed authorization reform. We need to get beyond just doubling down on the failing status quo which, unfortunately, is what the cares act does. And congressmen should come together in a bipartisan manner to pass we did come together, i should say, in a bipartisan manner the pass the cares act. We provided billions of dollars in relief to institutions and to students that have been impacted by the coronavirus. Unfortunately, my colleagues on the other side of the aisle are insisting on spending billions more in taxpayer money without first understanding the full effect and impact of the cares act. As congress discusses additional relief, we should broaden the conversation beyond simply just more money for the fact that we should be judging our success by how well we enhance opportunities for students to seek education and can prove their station improve their station in life. Over several decades, the federal government has played an increasingly larger role in our Higher Education system and with some pretty dismal results. Just over half our nations College Students are graduating within sick years, and those six years, and those who do graduate are fining themselves woefully unprepared for the work force. So, congress, lets Work Together in a bipartisan manner to pass legislation that encourages universities to innovate and adapt to meet the needs of todays students. Our focus should be on reopening responsibly. Dewe cannot lose sight of doing what is best for students. Congress can help all students regardless of their background succeed by encouraging proven methods of learning such as competencybased education, Work Force Participation in the College Classroom and allowing for innovative and stackable credentials with time for substantive hea reform is now. Again, i want to thank the witnesses for your testimonies today, look forward to working with my colleagues to reform the hea in the best interests of the students, institutions and taxpayers. Madam chairwoman, thank you, and i yield back. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Smucker. I now recognize myself for the purpose of making a closing statement. I certainly want to thank once again our expert witnesses for joining the subcommittees First Virtual hearing and for your compelling testimony today. Our discussion certainly offered an important reminder that Congress Still has much work to do. From providing institutions with additional relief to protecting vulnerable students from fraud and insuring that all students can access and complete a College Degree. Yeah, i think if we would [inaudible] students in the room as well to share for us how devastating for a number of students this has been. To try and make some adjustments, to anticipation to anticipate and even inquire and is ask themselves and their a families is it good to try and continue with my Higher Education at this time . What should i do . For freshmen who are just entering, for those who have been, maybe they had a year of school behind them, and now theyre really troubled about what the next step is. Im sure that you all could have offered some advice about that, but our role here is to try and understand what can we do, what can the congress do, what should we be doing. And so, again, we have a lot of work to do in that regard. We are well aware that there are a number of alternative pathways. In fact, the committee on higher ed has been working hard on Work Force Investment looking at how we scale up apprenticeships more, how do we help young people who maybe are looking for alternatives to be able to access those and especially at a time like this when things are so uncertain. But at the same time, we have to be sure that those institutions and those programs are highly accountable. Not just to the people that they serve, of course, but also to the taxpayers. And so thats a keen interest of ours, and were working very hard on that. We also know that there are a lot of reasons why young people are not able to profit from their education as well as they should. And i think as we look at how we can reimagine, how we can think differently about Higher Education that we need to be certain that we understand what are those reasons for them not being able to achieve the withdraw they wanted in the past the way they wanted in the and how do we work or how do we adjust our Higher Education system to respond to that and, again, look at our Work Force Investments. So, again, i thank you very much for being here, and we know that we must advance the heroes act. I think of out differently than my colleague, mr. Smucker. I think that we need to have that support there in order to do what needs to be done to create this reimagining within our communities. If we dont have that, then those students who benefit from that support, that mentoring, those all that weve been able to do in the past will not have that, and they will probably leave the system and maybe never return. Even though they have the Great Potential to be able to have made those contributions as individuals in the future. We cant let that happen. So we have to be certain that were thinking ahead about the support thats needed, and theres no question that covid has impacted the ability of each and every school to prepare their students and to be able to deliver in the way that they need to deliver. So i hope that we can come together on behalf of the heroes act and overcome this pandemic and excel into the future. Thank you again. We really benefit from your expertise today. And with that, theres no further business. Without objection, the subcommittee stands adjourned. Thank you the, all. During the summer months, reach out to your elected officials with cspans congressional directory. It contains all the Contact Information you need to stay in touch with members of congress, federal agencies and astronaut governors. Order state governors. Order your copy online today at cspanstore. Org. Cspan has unfiltered coverage of congress, the white house, the Supreme Court and Public Policy events. You can watch all of cspans Public Affairs programming on its, online on television, online or listen on our free radio app and be part of the National Conversation through cspans daily Washington Journal Program or through our social media feeds. Cspan, created by americas Cable Television companies as a Public Service and brought to you today by your television provider. And former aid to president george w. Bush looks at the internal fight that shapes several president ial ministrations. Then 60 minute correspondent John Dickerson talked about his book on the presidency, the hardest job in the world. Later university of virginia history professor elizabeth argues that during the civil war the north was motivated to liberate instead of conquer the south. Enjoy book tv on cspan2. Next the president ial historian and former senior aid to president george w. Bush, his book fight house looks at the internal site that shapes the ministrations. This was a Virtual Event hosted by the bipartisan policy center. Good afternoon i am the director of governmental studies at the policy center and thank you for joining us in a Virtual Event where we are here for an important reason, the release of a new book, the book is rivalries in the white house from truman to trump and the author will be joined to make commentary on this book. Let me start by introducing our guest and then were going to talk a little bit and looking forward to having you ask questions as well