Type issues before the committee and more than two,. Host we will explore some of those in this next half hour i want to start with some news that came out this week, which is the fcc declaring huawei and zte corporations can be National Security threats. What is your view of that . Guest this there some validity to that. Its one of the reasons you saw the bill passed in the energy and Commerce Committee with greg walden and Bob Goodlatte and myself and mr. Pallone, which is now were just waiting for the appropriators to put some money in it because we estimate it will take about one, 2 million to assist the Somalia Companies that want that equipment to make them whole so they can remove the equipment and put other equipment in. We have been generally supportive of that and we are hopeful the appropriators will put the sufficient funds in the bill so that can happen. Host here to up help us explore some of the issues youre subcommittee facing is chris mills rodrigo, with the hill and he covers technology. Thanks for having me. So just before getting into some of the policy specifics i was curious to know how the coronavirus pandemic has shifted the priorities of you and your subcommittee . Guest its obviously made it much more difficult to schedule hearings and to do our normal course of business. We had a hearing last week on this disinformation. Im sure that something will talk but made in the program. We dont at this time as an speaking no win our next hearing is going to be scheduled. Theres six committees on energy and commerce, all compete for slots. Theres also a limited amount of as moving to august leadership, wanted to get legislation to the fourth so those will take precedence to being on each committee there in or subcommittee. Its made the normal operations of the committee more difficult but we are all learning this technology, using zoom and webex and other media to be able to conduct our hearings and so far weve been able to do it without too many glitches. Do you see potential to use digital hearings moving forward based on these experiences . Guest i and may be kind of old school. I the fact we are in the hearing room with our colleagues. Its especially difficult during markups or contentious hearings to make sure when people want to be recognized or where theres a debate going on at least a little bit of it is, what i think is a healthy debate when it is being done on zoom with a bunch of frames and youre not sure who is yellow line is around their screen to know who was talking. It has its purpose and obviously given the situation we are in right now its critical we are able to continue to conduct our business. My staff all works remotely from their homes so im here in pittsburgh and in washington, d. C. And were able to get our work done and respond to our constituents. We have to get our Committee Work done and make sure were getting product to the floor thats important to the american people. This tool has been critical and the other thing is pandemic has illustrated is important of broadband. When you think about it right now, people are really depend on this not only for the work, how we are educating students, ordering groceries and medicines, so much of what we depend on on doing everyday life we wouldnt be able to do if we didnt have connectivity like this and theres a lot of people in the country who dont. Thats one of the challenges we have, to make sure we fix that problem when we look at infrastructure. Host congressman doyle, Congress Sometimes moves a little slower than events happen in real life. How have you been able to, as you say, move some product to the floor . Guest aydin, we would like to do things through regular order. We talk about this a lot when House Democrats first took back the majority in the house. To the extent the situation allows it, thats how we like to do business, to have our hearings, markup in subcommittee go to full committee and then the floor. As weve seen recently this hasnt always been possible especially when were trying to get our work done before the august recess. We still have a number of appropriation bills to get to the floor is last two weeks of july. We have the heroes act that is past the house of representatives and is still waiting on Mitch Mcconnell to open his mouth and say something, that he wants to sit down and negotiate. We have received proposals by mr. Walden and senator wicker on covid, but we dont see numbers because apparently over in the senate and the administration they are not willing to talk money yet. So my hope is that during this twoweek recess when were still doing hearings virtually and markups, i know our committees will do markups sometime that this next week but the following week virtually that theres some discussion going on so that when we get back those last two weeks, that if something to vote on relative to another package, whether it takes the form of what we have in the heroes package or moves in a different direction. We need to get something done before the august recess, and i think that is weighing heavily on our leadership. Whatever build we need to move in order to make that happen, those will be expedited. Host what are you hearing from zoom and webex of the world, how you can best assist them in their view . Guest i think this has been a valuable tool quite frankly. I just got through a primary election on june 2. This was a very strange time to be running, and i had a competitive race here i had an, and normally you do the doortodoor campaign, you have debates, rallies. Everything moved to zoom. Community meetings moved to zoom. The bates like were doing right here all with my local television stations were done with this format. Its become an invaluable tool for Small Businesses, for the conduct of business in the country during a pandemic when so many of us are working out of our homes, because its not safe right now to work in large numbers inside in the closed areas. We want the technologies to work. We want it to be safe and secure. Now i know for official hearings and markups that we use webex technology, i think thats still the product, as opposed to thm because our technical folks thinks theres a a little more security there. This technology will keep Getting Better and i think it may be used more, maybe not so much in hearings and markups and the United States congress but i think youll see a lot of business continues to be conducted this way. Im just not quite sure a lot of businesses are ever going to go back to the way they used to do things once we get through this pandemic and hopefully have a back seat of a vaccine thats safe and that works so we can get back to some degree of normalcy. Great. One policy issue you hinted at before its broadband also taking on a lot more importance, people rely on the internet. Earlier this week the accessible affordable internet for all act or provisions of it were included in the moving forward act. Investment of 100 hundred billion dollars to build broadband in certain areas as most affordable broadband offerings for anyone who receives that funding. Do you see that potentially being independent legislation on the moving forward act, given the opposition from the president and from Senate Majority leader Mitch Mcconnell to the moving forward act . Guest theres going to be a negotiation, and there was a lot of comment on the floor by republicans about whats the broadband package doing in a transportation bill . The necessity to move a large infrastructure bill in the country, when we talk about infrastructure we are not just talking about roads and bridges. When you think about it, broadband is the infrastructure of the future. This is going to be the basis for how the 21st century economy works. Its critical we not just put money to get broadband underserved areas but what we talk about is upgrading the entire system to increase its speeds and its efficiency. We are talking using it to close the homework gap. We dont know if kids are going back to school in the fall. We hope they do, and i have a lot of parents with kids at home hope kids going back to school but we dont know that yet. Distance learning is going to be a very real thing and we still have a lot of people in this country that dont have access to broadband or the equipment, and we have to close that homework gap. Part of what we did in this package is to do that. We want to update our 911 service and we want thats important. Theres just so many things, parts of moving this economy forward in the direction that commerce is taking that is digital now, and the United States should be at the forefront of that. We think the investment in the broadband package, and if you know this, on the majority whip by jim clyburn who normally doesnt work in this space has stepped forward, you know, hes someone who is worked very closely with myself and mr. Pallone on this package. Whether it moves as part of the infrastructure package which is voted on, we dont know. We know that we still have to negotiate with our senate counterparts, still have to appropriate money. Theres got to be some agreement about how much money is on the table for broadband, and then work with the senate and the republicans on how we get legislation passed. But we cant work when the other side doesnt open them out and say something. We are anxious to have Mitch Mcconnell or the president guaido senator wicker has some proposals but theres no money attached to these things. My hope is over the next two weeks while we are at home and holding these hearings virtually that negotiations start taking place so we can start something the last two weeks before believe in august to get something on the table. I think its very important. There seems to beat be to particular areas that come out of broadband, telehealth and closing the homework gap. On the telehealth issue, they cares act which Congress Passed earlier this year appropriated 200 million for telehealth work. Earlier this month or guess last month now you and energy and commerce chair mr. Pallone sent a letter to the fcc chair ajit pai asking how the money could be distributed. Have you gotten a response on that yet . Guest we are concerned about the transparency of this program. We want to get more information as we user grants that are being sent out to various helpful organizations. We want more transparency on how the process works and whos getting these grants. The concern has been to date there hasnt been that transparency. We have written chairman pai and have been asking him to make sure that this is a program thats not only run efficiently transparently, and we request information on what organizations have received funding, and basically what is the criteria that is being used to judge who gets an award and he doesnt get an award . So were still waiting to get that information. Are there for the steps you are considering taking to maybe have more oversight over that fcc process . Guest if we are not getting cooperation come if we dont think the process is transparent and is set working sufficiently, then income under the scrutiny of the committee. Thats part of our oversight responsibilities responsibility is something we will look into. Our hope is we can get some answers from the chairman and make sure the program is running away that is transparent. Theres also other legislation proposed on telehealth including a bill in the senate would make the changes in the cares act chromatid which would allow the Health Department to wait geographical location for Medicare Beneficiaries using telehealth. Is it something you would get behind making those changes permanent . Guest im not familiar with what the senate has done so i cant give you a definite answer on that. Obviously we want to expand telehealth benefits across the country. I just had to take a closer look at the Senate Language before i could give you a good answer on that. Beyond the obvious current reduction in risk from using telehealth, what you see the potential benefits . Guest i i look at my state of pennsylvania. I live in pittsburgh. A lot of people think of pennsylvania as philadelphia and pittsburgh. In between philadelphia and its berg is a whole bunch of farmland and dairy farms. Its a very rural state, if you know it well. A lot of times these folks find themselves hundreds of miles away from certain types of healthcare. In pittsburgh we are blessed with the largest Academic Medical Center in the state of pennsylvania. We have another Health Network there. We have many, many things available right at our fingertips in pittsburgh, but if you live in central pennsylvania, those facilities are not available especially some of the specially healthcare. This is where telehealth fills a gap are some of the best and brightest surgeons and researchers that work in our hospitals in pittsburgh and facilities in philadelphia can basically consult, look at xrays, look at, you know, its almost like bringing that talent writing to those areas with the people having to get in the car and drive 200 miles to get an appointment with someone. So its important and valuable for rural parts of the country. Speaking of rural areas, the rural Digital Opportunity fund, 20 billion Funding Amount that the sec has to distribute to rule communities to improve broadband, the auction for that is set for october 22. Have there been discussions about possibly moving that date as some of the democratic members of the agency have mentioned they might need to do more Data Collection first . Guest yeah, well, i think we want to have good data so that we have good result. It doesnt make a lot of sense to me, we know the mapping is horrendous and inaccurate, and why do we want to spend all this money before we have good maps and good data . So many of us on the committee and some of the members of the fcc have expressed the desire that lets not put the car ahead of the horse. Lets get this mapping issue solved first and then make sure the money gets spent in the most efficient way, that we are putting it where it really needs to go. Host congressman doyle, it seems that for years people have complained about the mapping. Why has this been such an issue . Guest for the life it may come as long as ive been on the committee, and ive been on the committee for quite some time, weve had this discussion. Its just mindboggling that, given the technology and the abilities we have today that we cant get accurate mapping so that we are making sure as we spend these precious dollars that just are not growing on trees, that we are getting deployment where we need the employment. Quite frankly, a lot of the carriers have, for whatever reasons, you know, they claim they have service where they dont have service, and we all know how that has been going on for years. The last hearing, the last time we talked about this in the legislation, there was almost unanimous bipartisan consensus that this is a completely broken system and it needs to be fixed. So democrats and republicans on the committee both agree on this. Why in the world would be fcc push forward on this before we get this problem fixed . Thats basically what we said to the chairman, that we really need to get this done right, seems to me we would just be throwing 20 million out the window if we went ahead and did this without updated maps. Another Major Initiative is closing the homework gap. This is something you been working on for a while even before coronavirus k. Is there more energy in congress to move legislation given the pandemic . Guest i hope so. Certainly any legislation moves out of the house of representatives were included this. This is a very important issue to House Democrats here i believe there are many republicans also that support closing the homework gap. The issue here always comes around dollars. We can agree on a lot of things in congress, democrats and republicans, intel he gets to the point had we pay for it. Thats where the talks always seem to break down. Obviously we have much more aggressive 9 billion out of 100 billion in the closing the homework gap. Think its very important. Its important to the future of the country that people are getting educated, especially in times like this where schools are being shut down and where we have basically two societies, the connected society and then the unconnected society where they had to go to the library or drive up to mcdonalds to try to find a wifi spot in order for the kids to do the homework. Thats just not fair any country like america that we have those kind of disparities. This is important to us and we are going to push for maximum amount of funding that we can any negotiation. Host chairman doyle, is creating or using broadband as an infrastructure tool, is there bipartisan support for that . Guest people are starting to understand how important it is. I think the pandemic has brought a lot of this to light, that people see the importance of broadband a lot more in their everyday lives and in the context of business then maybe they did prior to the pandemic. I said at the beginning of the show that broadband is infrastructure of the future. When we talk about what investments were going to make as a country to ensure our preeminence in the world in this Global Economy we are in, it should be painfully obvious that having the best connectivity, the best networks is critical to our success in the Global Economy and critical to the success of our students who are trying to learn. Its critical for our healthcare industry. Just about every class under the economy you can think of these been touched by broadband. Think about our political discourse in this country which maybe get to that part on disinformation. The role that is played in our democracy, and the threat that it currently poses, many of us feel our democracy is something, if something doesnt change with these platforms that are really set on giving people what they want to hear, that causes so much a division in this country. And i hope these people run these platforms can see the country they have created in step up and do something about it. Thats why our last hearing which had a big focus on disinformation. I want to shift host i wanted to quickly follow up if i may. Is there a fear that Net Neutrality and regulating broadband in the internet as a utility could be part of this package . Guest i am a big supporter asian of Net Neutrality and was the prime sponsor of the bill that passed the house of representatives. I i think its important to hava top on the beat. A lot of the things cop on the beat. A lot of things they said they were not deal, which brought the regulation upon them, theres always something new that happen to technology and while we dont specifically say we know were not going to do certain things anymore because everybody will not confuse things even more, but there are other things that can pop up and, quite frankly, the federal trade commission doesnt have the manpower or the expertise or the authority to do much about this and less theres misstatement in the terms of, in their terms. So the fcc is really the one agency that can be this cop on the beat. What we are saying is, and isp is acting in a anticompetitive nature, then the fcc has the authority to come in to do something about that. So if the Internet Companies are not doing anything which they claim they dont want, they dont want to have any anticompetitive behavior, they do want to have any anticonsumer policies, if thats true then they should have nothing to fear from an agency like the fcc who may not be have the ability to step in if they see something wrong, based on the step nations with already agreed to. The American Public by the way gets that. Democrats, republicans and independents, and thats where our Record Number of people talk to the fcc about this. Its really not a democratic or republican issue. Its in washington, d. C. Washington, d. C. When you get outside the capital theres pretty much basic agreement this is a good idea. Given todays climate and the makeup of the senate and the white house, the chances of getting Net Neutrality bill as part of the package probably are not good. But we need to get some things done and so we need to find out what we can agree on and what we can find and what we can pass fund. November brings us some new faces, lots of new faces hopefully in my opinion, and then we can go from there based on what the Senate Looks Like after november, what the white house looks like. Host chris mills rodrigo, three minutes left. Perfect. The last initial want to touch them came up in your hearing last week which is section 230 of the medication decency act. The now controversial law that gives Online Platforms legal liability for content. Thirdparty users logged into content moderation. You suggested last week we are forming the law would be a good way to extend the tide of this information rolling over a country. What proposals have you seen or are you considering . Guest this is a very complex issue and its very difficult issue to navigate. We have obviously, you dont want to, i mean, abolishing section 230 would basically crash the platforms. They wouldnt be able at the same time there is a provision that says we give you this shield in return for you making a goodfaith effort to increase your sites. Its funny, both parties democrats and republicans the way theyre doing their jobs. Its funny the democrats are upset they are not doing enough and republicans are upset they think theyre doing too much in terms of stifling conservative viewpoints. So its a very tricky equation, and then you have the first amendment, the free speech. Even some hate speech unfortunately is protected under the first amendment. The question becomes how do we stop the flow of misinformation . We think about it in three buckets. How it has affected our democracy, how we know without any question this is a matter isnt a matter for debate that several foreign governments and others have tried to influence the last president ial election. Some of it was done in very ways. That has to stop. The platforms have a responsibility. When i rent a commercial, at the end of that commercial is as 84 by doyle for congress committee. People know who it is that is making that statement for them, if im saying something about myself or about my opponent. These platforms, spacious with regards to political speech, there needs to be some transparency there. We need to know who these folks are that are posting before they can post. There has to be a responsibility to verify that if somebody says they are a concerned Citizen Group in the United States, that they are not coming from russia or china. And so i think thats one thing were looking about and how it affects democracy. The other thing is weve watched the president just basically abuse his office on social media. His claim that voting by mail is fraudulent. We know thats not true and finally twitter called him on it and did a corrected peace but what we also know is how please like facebook basically rewritten their rules to accommodate this president so as not to have a fight with him. The has to be some degree of, the has to be some sort of cop on the beat like a fact check kind of thing on political speech. Same is with covid19. There is so much disinformation being disseminated over the internet, and these platforms have a responsibility i believe to do that policing. We had a hearing last year and we had all the Big Companies there and i basically told them that if they didnt want to do their job, that congress was going to do it for the and they were not going to like it. I think were reaching a point where a lot of members in the house and the senate are taking a look at section 230 and seeing what reforms can be made to that section, to make sure theyre doing a better job doing the things that we gave them a shield for. This was like a quid pro quo. Its like you get a liability shield but you have a responsibility to meet in order to get that liability shield. We dont think there meeting that responsibility. Having said all that, i have seen some proposals in the senate that are certainly not proposals that i think merit consideration. You have i think it is senator josh hawley is one of them, its more about how do we not let people moderate conservative views on that. This is a complex issue and we need to look at in a complex way. I know that senator graham recently had proposed some changes to his bill which we havent had a chance to see that new language yet. We are taking a at it but i think he takes away any protection or any liability shield on child pornography. Thats right, yeah. Guest but theres also some concerns that he is been impairing the department of justice on encryption, and that part i guess some real concerns about. This is this is a going to be ay fix and its not an easy solution. Its very complex and very tricky here how you navigate first amendment, how you navigate these other things and not stifle innovation and crash this system. I just have to say, when people who run these platforms take a look at the country they had created, because they had changed the culture of this country, and if you dont see the division that exists in our country right now, that is cheaply being done by social media, i mean, its just crazy to me how you can identify peoples peoples political affiliation just based on certain actions or phrases you use everyday on the internet. If you dont wear a mask that says something, or if you are wearing a mask. It goes on and on. I just think theres a a responsibility on the part of these platforms to understand the division theyre causing in the country by telling people what they want to hear, even though what you want to isnt necessarily true. I think the rest be some filters on that and i think thus to be some transparency on them. We should at least know the source of who is giving them this information so that they can at least make the judgment now. Host we are going to have to leave it there, unfortunately. Chairman mica total of the subcommittee on communications and technology. Chris mills rodrigo of the hill. Thank you both for being on the communicators. Guest my pleasure. Thanks for having me. Thank you. Cspan has unfiltered coverage of congress, the white house, the Supreme Court and Public Policy events. You can watch all of cspans Public Affairs program on television, online or listen on our free radio app and be part of the National Conversation through cspans daily washington journal programs or through our social media fees. Cspan, created by americas cabletelevision companies as a Public Service and brought you today by your television provider. 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