Behind me it and was not an easy journey, and i was truth to show that i can fly the jet. It doesnt care if youre a boy or girl. Just cares whether you fly well and shoot straight. But it was a challenging time. Decided to kind of beat them at their own game as they were playing their Fighter Pilot games and one of those things was chewing tobacco but i share the story somebody said that to me in the of Officers Club and i said if i die tomorrow this is the last day i have on this planet after all the effort avid tried to make a difference in others live and its thats all they, i quit. Host athlete chew tobacco when you talk about dip. Ing yes. Host whats an a10. Guest its called the wart hog is the nickname. Built to go after soviet tanks on the front lines. It was designer not what we call close air support. The folklore is they built a big 30 millimeter gun and went to the engineers and said figure out how to fly this gun. I dont know if thats true. Its a single seat. No twoseat model and no simulators when i went for training. The first flight is slow low and solo i bring you into the cockpit and share when i was cleared for takeoff the first day and i had to overcome my own fears and thing i take you into the canyons in afghanistan for one of my most complex missions and i had a plan and everything went wrong. So its job has changed still the same mission, close air support, but adapted to the current fights we have been in. Youre an american on the ground and youre in a firefight its very complex on the move, very close proximity, good guys and bad guys. We take off in order to provide the fire power overhead and its very important that you can deliver that fire power from three dim mentions, looking from above. Ensure that we save american lives, we deliver that fire power on the bad guys, we avoid friendly fire, and we get them home to their families and live to fight another day. Its an amazing plane. So survivable, i could take boat all day. We have a titanium bathtub around the cockpit because its bill to be on the frontlines. We can lose one engine, all hydraulics and all electrics and have holes in the plane and still fly back safely to friendly territory. Host now, you describe you quote a fellow pilot as saying flying is like wrestling while doing long division. I thought it was great example. I was at a career day and a friend sane in the middle of a wrestling match. Its physically and mental didemand egg at the same time. When we were in afghanistan we would take off on perhaps a routine combat mission. We would take off with a map of everything single area in afghanistan and we would often be diverted because troops were under fire somewhere. We be be given a call side, grid coordinate and radio frequency and told, go help those guys. So youre doing a lot of calculations look math, trying to figure out how to ensure your weapons hit your target coordination with your wingman could have one or throw people on your wing. With the guys on the grounds in some circumstances youll may be deconflicting with artillery and other things. A lot of timing involved, a lot of physics involved while the bad guys are trying to take you out. And sorting that owl mentally and physically is a part of the mission but you come back sometimes from this long flights and you would just be drenched as if you had been through im an athlete and if you have been through a tough workout mentally and physically. Host senator mcsally this a question i never asked a u. S. Senator before but its an proproto you. How tall are you . Guest when i went through trying to get my pilot clearance i was but 531 2 on a good day you get shorter when you get older it but i was a little too short to get interest flying. My leg length was okay, but my sitting height sorry my sitting height was okay but the total high was short and that was my leg length was the issue. I couldnt quite meet the standards. You have to be this tile to ride this ride. But what they did is they put us through fittings in the cockpit to make sure everybody is a little different. Can you see over the dashboard to put it in civilian terms, can you reach the breaks and rudder. Can you push hard full rudder because thats what you do to get out of a a spin. Can you function in the cockpit . I passed all those tests. So i was cleared to fly by the flight surgeon, by the Instructor Pilots, but i kept having bureaucrats say i couldnt fly because of some arbitrary number that they came up with. And so we pushed hard, went through creative routes. I share not many people would go through that but they can relate to being frustrated with people trying to take their dream away or having obstacles come up inure own life. So many people are experiencing that right now. Having your plans be derailed. People can relate to that a lot in 2020. So i just share the lesson of persevering and being creative and never giving up and dont have a chip on your shoulder. Keep finding new ways in order to try to meet your dreams and i was eventually cleared to fly. Host cockpits basically are designed for average height men. Is that correct . Guest they were, yes. Yes. Recently by the way the air force announced finally this year that they are doing away with the arbitrary eye restrictions and just treating people as individuals to make sure their fit to fly. The same thing is an. I youre too tall. You cant fit in the cockpit if you cant close the canopy. You have to keep your spine straight. When you pull the ejection handle you will have massive gforces that could brain your back. You could lose your leg if your legs for long if you eject. So the limitations are there for a reason. But a lot of some men and a lot of women missed out on the opportunities because of the arbitrary numbers and now they finally changed it all these years late jeer did you grow up wanting to go to air force academy snow not at all. Grew up in a middlele class family. The youngest of five kid. My dad was in the navy before i boss born sow grew up with the value of service and hard work, getting a good education mitchell dad came from really humble circumstances but people helped him out. Started working at the age of eight. People believed in him and through using his g. I. Bill he was able to get a good education, and he was driven to make a better life for us kids, and i really benefited from that. I lost him when i was 12. I share this in dare to fly. It shocked and disrupted this little girls life in a profound way, and among other things in between halter a heart attacks when i went to visit him he told me to make proud and then passed away the next day. The day before we were hanging out together as a family so this is a sudden shock in hi life. My mom is knew single mom, five kids. Went back to school and back to work as a Public School teacher. And i knew education was a key to my future. Those were hard years for me. Very difficult for me as an adolescent but it also wanted to carry on his legacy and do something meaningful with my life and is i looked for tubs to get an education i didnt want to saddle my mom with debt and i stumbled into the air force academy. You make decisions when youre 17 so most parents can relate to teenagers being a little flaky and trying to find their way and i ended up applying to the air force academy and off i went. Host you applied originally to be a doctor, correct and. Guest yes. When i went to the academy, i wasnt qualified to fly because of the height thing. I didnt want to fly. I didnt really know what i was talking about but i was also a little motion sick as a kid and i thought, getting a degree and becoming a doctor was a good path for me. So i went off to the academy, and i found out for the first anytime my life that just because i was a girl i couldnt do something. If grew up in a family and an environment where i never new there we restrictions on me and i found it wait against the law for women to be Fighter Pilots and im also feisty, you can tell that and so i channeled my fuseeness into something positive. I said thats exactly what i want to do because you said i couldnt. And im going to prove you wrong. And so i had this desire in my heart because they said women and girls could not do that. And that charted my very long path to eventually being cleared for takeoff. Almost ten years later. I realized in those formative years that me desiring to be a doctor was more tied to losing my dad and tied to my grief and saving other kid settle was my grief and not my calling and i had to let that go. Host what do you remember about your first solo flight. Guest my first slow she flight or first a10 flight. Host first slow sleeve flying. I was at the air force academy and we go through some prescreening where you fly in a little cessna like to get your private pilots license and when the Instructor Pilot says youre ready to go, you do other practice run that day and then they get out of the airplane and say, youre good to good. We use the term often i was an Instructor Pilot late are in other planes, dont do anything dumb, different or dangerous when you are cleared for the solo. Remember just my heart beating, my mouth dry, i felt nauseous. I thought i cant believe im going to fly this airplane by myself and i share in by dare to fly how to overcome your fear and take off afraid like indid that day if wasnt sure i could die it but my instructor believed in me and others had again before me so i put up the power, took off anded a my first amazing flight solo some i pushed back my fear to fly in combat and leading combat and everyone can relate to having fear almost paralyze you and i want to encourage the reader to do things afraid in their whole lives. Doesnt matter if its taking off in a plane, whatever is holding you back and choose to take off. Host senator, youre one of the top graduates in your class. Did that open up all opportunities to you . Guest it did it. I was blessed. I worked hard athlete lot of high caliber people in the example. I wanted to be a pilot and i was dealing with this height thing that was holding me wake and was very focused on Pilot Training, and as i was getting delayed and derailed i was offer a scholarship to go to harvard so that was an amazing opportunity, between 1988 and 1990, so i went to the Kennedy School of government, got a masters of public policy. The years they soviet union collapsed, the wall came down and studying International Security was just an amazing opportunity for me. At the time of course i was just trying to by time to get my pilot clearance so i could go to Pilot Training but what an amazing educational experience i had to include the summer internship at nato political headquarters, and internship in the pentagon, my second year, once a month, and then later on i was given the opportunity to get another masters degree. What an incredible chance i had as this middle class whippersnapper, just trying to make a difference in the world and do something meaningful with my life that the military gave me these opportunity tuesday get a good education and to fly jets and command men and women in combat. So those doors were opened because i was working hard and excelling where i was. There were restricts but my lesson is bloom where youre planted. Dont have a chip on your shoulder. Keep the dream in your heart and keep excelling and you never know when the opportunity might come. Host one of the routes of your life you describe as the, quote, t37 to del rio. What does that mean . Guest what i shared was many of us can have dreams like i did and many can relate to this right now in 2020. Maybe your plans were derailed. Many peoples have been because of this pandemic. I took a route because still didnt change the law. It wasnt fair. Against the law, even though i graduated higher than others who performed less than me, i still couldnt be a Fighter Pilot because i was girl. So i took an assignment to be an Instructor Pilot in del rio texas flying the t37. Wasnt black rouse but gave me the wasnt glamorous but gave me theton dirk the put you in taping are you situations and puking all over you but its important work, but people usually graduating high in the class didnt pick it. I thought it was a chance for me to keep building my airmanship, keep excelling, keep growing in my experience as a pilot, and keep the door open that if they changed the law and the policy the law was change it at that point but the policy wasnt. I felt like it was going to happen soon and i would about ready and leaning forward and building my experience, and its exactly what happened. The door opened, and i was in the right place at the right time with the right experience, so i encouraged the reader whats your t37 to del rio . I look back. Had i not been derail initially i would not have been in the position to actually have broken the barriers and been the first woman to fly in combat. Sometimes you cant see that a detour is actually taking you on your path to your destiny and that was my experience. Host what is the t37 . Guest the 237 is a low win traininger plane. No longer flying. Itself was built in the 60s and side by side so you have the student and Instructor Pilot, very maneuverable and the First Six Months of Pilot Training every pilot learn how to fly the t37. Host how many women were in your graduating class as he air force academy . Guest we graduated about a thousand cadets and i was in the ninth class with women. We were at 10 at that time. So right around 100. Host from your book, dare to fly, like many outcome women, in a mail dominated environment, i learned to succeed by being one of the guys. Guest i think a lot of women can relate 0 this. One necessarily a conscious choice. I have three older brothers and one older sister. Joke i had to fight for my food when i was a kid. But i had to learn how to even though there was an environment where everybody was sort of looking at us, there was how we were going to perform, did we block there, a lot of naysayers about women being at the military academy. We had to prove ourselves and you had to sometimes change peoples minds one at a time. And so often times you would think that women often would Work Together but as many women can relate to this in male dominated fields we felt like you were on your own and just wanted to show you were different. Patriots come as men and women. You want to serve just like them. So just be one of the guys, blend in, dont be stick ought in any way, and just do your job, do it well and prove you belong and prove you can be a patriot. Host was that a good path . Guest well, it was a path that i took when i was young, and you cant look back with the wisdom in your 50s to decisions you make as a teenager. I feel like at the time in that environment, it allowed me to succeed and allowed me to change a lot of peoples minds, to prove that women did belong side by side serving and were america so we pick the best man for the job even if shes a woman. Were a meritbased society. Thats what were all about and i think it provided the opportunity to open up some peoples eyes while focusing on performance. How well are you excelling in thing that are objective . That is the most important thing in ensuring that people see we belong serving alongside you. Host senator mcsally there were several times where you pushed back rather strongly as you described them in dare to fly, including in saudi arabiaa. What was that . Guest well, i was deployed to kuwait. Right after we transition bid fighters so im still trying to prove we belong. It was the first deployment any woman had been in fighters, and i walked by the beauty desk and saw a picture of a young enlisted woman in saudi arabia with the full muslim, black gown and head scarf, and at first i thought it was local woman and then i saw this is the appropriate way to wear the head scarf and i was like, what is that . And it just gripped me that it was wrong on so many levels. Why have our u. S. Servicewomen wear muslim garb like that when they were deployed . I doesnt understand that. I was a young captain but just felt this deep conviction it was wrong. So i started looking into where does this policy come from and why were they doing it . Little did i know i could have just walked by the problem and as one lesson i have in the book. Dont walk by a problem. When i saw that even though it didnt apply to me i looked into it to see where is this coming from who decided this . Why . And just to stand up and say its wrong and needs to change. Little did i know it would be an eightyear journey and that journey would years later culminate in them ordering me over to saudi arabia, telling me to sit in the back seat of the car and put the burqa on myself. Telling me we should lie and have a servicewoman claim me as their wife instead of their boss or their fellow service moan if we were offbase and the religious police questioned us. I couldnt believe it so i went up and down the chain of command for many years trying to get this changed. I share this, two chapters because itself is a long story of one person standing up to make a difference and i sued the secretary of defense, and worked through legislation, and never would have asked for this battle, but i would do it again because it was against our values, it was i believe it was against our constitution, using tack pair money to buy this religious garb and forces on women who were serving in their official capacity. Didnt make any sense. In the end i won this battle but it wasnt an easy one youch dont just wake up and say im going sue the secretary of defense today. Not a good career move for you. But it shares a little bit of me lesson of dont walk by a problem. If something is wrong, do something. Persevere see if theres creative ways to change it. Stand your ground, continue to look for ways to make a difference and even if it comes at a personal cost to you. I was in saudi arabia last year. Driving a car, wearing western clothes, it was the ultimate closure for me of that very long battle. Host that battle began also with a pair of sweatpantses and ended with you asking a public question to secretary William Perry at the time. Guest it did. In my base in kuwait they were making us wear long baggy sweatpants all the time, on base, whatever the temperature was outside, when youre trying to exercise which weneyed to do is a Fighter Pilots it was another ridiculous policy of a little cultural sensitivity run amok. Americans were doing this to our own people and i would be irritated by that doublestandard in kuwait, and ultimately i had to make a decision whether i was going to speak up that was my first tough decision, when secretary perry came to visit or just be silent and do what was best for me. Its not an easy decision. I share in the become calling back to a mentor and asking for advice. I didnt want to do it. I was just trying to keep my head down and show that women belong, the last thing i wanted to do was raise a womens issue. We were still transitioning into fighters but my mentor told me to read at the book of esther and i share theirs in dare to fly. The line really hit me. Can it by you were pet put in this position for such a time as this. Thats a message for everybody who is listening, wherever you are, when you feel strongly about making a devils of not walking by a making a difference of not walking by a problem can it by you were put in a position for such a time as this. Youre the one to speak sought and take the risk to make the difference and that with any journey over eight years. One of the continual themes in your book, day to fly, is faith. Guest yes. Well, i grew up in a family of faith, and went to church each week. It wasnt personal for me as a young kid. That kind of connection, but my parents were people of faith. I later heard got bet e letters from friend offed my dad when he was in college, on his knees every night praying to god. When my dad died when i was 12, i was really angry at god which is understandable. I was asking a lot of questions. Didnt ask of the 12yearold in a stable middle class family, and i just share my raw journey, its not a a raw journey of going through the grief and going through very difficult, difficult experiences in my life, but finding in the events and the darkness, finding my own faith, and reaching out for the hand of god in my life to help me through that journey. Its not a pat way i describe it. Its a rue way. Like most people in my relationship with god, and how i have grown in that faith over time and how he is with me in combat in victories, on mountaintops, and in the depths of despair and grief which we can all relate to as well. Host another continue annual theme in your becoming marathon. Guest ey. Im an endurance athlete and so i share running many marathons and a couple of iron mans so perseverance is a theme in my life. Those experiences helped also ive had to endure other things where i needed to persevere. I share coaching a group of my quadrant mates when he was a command squadron mates, and i shared if you come up with a plan and you put your mine to it and you do the training and you do the hard work, you can across the finish line. A lot of it is mental. A lot of challenges are mental. The best analogy for many things in life that you have to keep putting one foot in front of the other. I talk about get thing the first water station. You dont stand at the starting line of a marathon and think how youll feel at mile 25. Youll never get going if you think about that. But if you think about im going to get to the first water station at mile one, now thats doable. Get going, run a good pace, and stop for water at mile one. And for many things in life that may seem too huge, if you break them down and come up with a plan do the training, and then you get the first water station, and i give practical steps thought get how to difficult, long,ard ard white house things in life ard duous things in life and you dont know where to start. Host no after your father died, you relate how a coach abused you and you also write in dare to fly that while at the air force academy, quote, i was raped, yes, raped. Guest yeah. Those are not easy words to say or to write. And after i lost my dad, i was a naive, very vulnerable kid, who was very trusting, and looking for other father figures in my life, and that trust was deeply betrayed as a teenager in high school, and it almost crushed me. Share this in my book. And many women and men can relate to this. Sexual abuse of young people is something that is impacted so many peoples lives for those viewing you or your loved ones. Its happening in places you may not even know someone you love has been through this. So i wanted to share i have been through this and as i went off to the air force academy, one reason honestly was to get away from this perpetrator. One of my decisions points was get away. I realized you cant get away from the pain. I realized that later. And the impact. And it had other Sexual Assault experiences in the military. These things almost crushed me. Want to be really honest about that. There were some dissparing moments in the valley of betrayal, of the crime that was committed against me, and i but i was able to by the grace of god find my way out of those valleys and able to put one foot in front of the other, find my own healing over time, find my own pant, and i share the stories so others who this maybe happened to yesterday or a decade ago could realize they need to find their healing, too. That you have already been robbed of so much. Dont let your perpetrator rob you of your future. Dont let your perpetrator rob you of your potential and your destiny and your hope in your life. Theyre not thinking of you right now so dont let them hold you become anymore. Find your own path to healing and i share that just because i wanted to be a sign of hope and light for others who have been through this, which is so many. Host finally, senator, your path to the u. S. Senate is probably one of the most unique paths ever taken. Correct . Guest it is. Its continued in the theme of these books which talks nothing but politics but the journey i had was very similar of persevering and derailment and ups and downs, but also purpose. I first decided to run for the same reason i did all these other things in my life. Want to make a difference. Want to fight for others i. Want to fight for those who dont have a voice. Thats ban journey of my whole life of service. In 2012 i thought i had won. Came to freshman orientation, in the photos, and then i had to go home and concede. I lost my. 84 . And thin decided to run again. Talk about perseverance, talk about never giving. Ran again in 2014 and this time it was 43 day recount and i won by a whopping 167 votes. So, my call sign is landslide whenever i get to the house. My new nickname. I share im the same person, the same person who flew in the a10. The statement person who overcame adversity we just shared, just trying to serve and make a difference in this combat zone, but its through ups and downs and faith and challenges and adversity. Im in now a place where if this is the last year of my life, like i think about, having lost my dad, what am i going to do to make a difference . Thats how view all of this as a continuation of my service. The same exact oath of office i took as a military officer actually. Host dare to fly is the name of the book, the author is mcsally. Guest share your stories with me. I have been inspired by so many people. Ive shared their stories of your own overcoming adversity and persevering and overcoming fears so go to dare to fly. U. S. And theyre she stores with me. Thanks a lot. Now on cspan2s booktv, more television for serious