Transcripts For CSPAN2 Discussion On Online Scams COVID-19 - PART 2 20240712

Legislators from both the u. S. And canada, discussed the challenges they are facing. Cement was caused by George Washington University Institute for data democracy and politics. Welcome to our continuing conversation about the social media platforms in response to this information campaigns around covid19 pandemic. Very serious situation. Obviously where it lives are literally in the balance. On director of the George Washington University School of many of the public affairs. Affiliated with the institute of data democracy and politics which is presenting this event together with the International Committee on disinformation. Ill be your moderator and your timekeeper and i will continue this conversation with her distinguished panelists and guests. And if you are journalist, please feel free to put your question into the q a. And make sure that is addressed to everybody so that we can all see it and i will try to incorporatee at least some of those questions to our panel in a bit. Social media platforms as we know and discussed allowing unscrupulous actors to sell on illegal and overpriced medical equipment during this pandemic. That is one of many issues that we see across the platforms. This one is not a new problem. Social media platforms however continue to allow these dangerous disinformation street that covid19 pandemic. In so doing they expose just how dangerous they are responsible this kind of behavior can be. In the role they play in continuing to allow it. Rev in conspiracy theories, make the situation worse and confusing people and discharging people. Social media platforms how the technological knowhow and the resources to face of the date actually have little intent and incentive to dole so. And i got a distinguished panel does to discuss these problems. On frontlines heard doing with these issues directly and legislators who are trying to do something about it and two countries. First of a look at some of the issues in the states to launch this conversation. [silence]. Next advertise on facebook, why state companies have the mass can filter out 99 percent of harmful particles. Here is what you pay for years but to get buried. Im a foster founder, Janet Williams county justice, we need we need advanced. These boys dont have any other place to live. We are responsible for overseeing these children and help the welfare of these children. I hadnt noticed an ad for mask on facebook. I saw facebook as a legitimate company. So i adored my on april 3rd. I got the confirmation that they received my payment. And after my initial reply to facebook, then went silent. I got nothing. I absolutely have thought about the fact that without these masks coming, it put these childrens and the families, our organization that higher risk. [silence]. U. S. Law makers who are joiningin us. They are charged with consumer protection. [inaudible]. So my apologies for that video there and some of the technological problems. We have been trying to connect the world with via web next. Is the learning process for allwe f this writing and again apologies. We have two fleeting lawmakers who are charged with consumer protections. In the United States congress and the from canada. Also a leader from and about disinformation. Senator blumenthal joins us. And it traces back to decades pretty connecticuts attorney general damages a senator blumenthal coming from connecticut. And its a great pleasure. And with the consumer rights, for more than two decades as the state attorney general. An recognized leader in the senate on the Democratic Caucus on this issue pretty and from the great state of illinois, ninth congressional district. House energy and Commerce Committee pray you serve as a Senior Deputy in the house leadership as well. So thanks to you for joining us. Rosen joined by nathaniel smith. He is a canadian member of parliament prayed for the liberal party pretty former litter getter and industry science and technology. N. Randy smith is a mentor ship at risk youth in texas after a successful corporate career. He became a house t apparently saw in that video. He is the kind of community leader, as we see in that video, we would all like to have. Randy we thank you, celebrate you and appreciate everything you do are doing. Doctor sonia stokes is a fellow at John Hopkins Center for Health Security and bio Security Issues that s clinically attending physician at mount sinai morning hospital also serving the covid19 best practices committee. Le lets get a sense of what is going on with you, out there in the world and bring that to our elected representatives are further conversation. So randy smith, lets start withve you. Go head and share your story. You are expressing your experiences and frustration and mistakes of what this is all about, go ahead the floor is yours. Thank you when this pandemic happened we became concerned about our ability to serve and support the teams that were in our program. We immediately started to look at the need of the teams but the logistics of complying with social distancing guidelines. We knew we needed to perform well. We quickly realized we were also going to be responsible for supplying food and other supplies to families. Initially when i found the masks they were on amazon they were the only the last masks. I found a link that advertise on facebook. Knowing facebook is a legitimate company, i assumed they only allowed legitimate advertisers. I went aheadhe and purchased the masks through disaster through facebook. Shortly later i received an inaccurate order confirmation which let me know something was wrong. In looking into that a found a Facebook Group over thousand membersed and most had ordered from these and hundreds had posted information regarding the dispute on facebook and paste pal was very difficult to find anyone posting resolutions to those concerns. It was not justus facemasks. Hundreds had ordered robotic vacuums, drones, and had become victims ofro b scams. It was apparent that facebook had been aware of this forre several weeks. There were no secrets people were getting ripped off. I would imagine for every one person reported might have been hundreds who did not speak up or say anything. I looked at it i walked into home depot they have a responsibility to make sure i receive what i was sold. They are also regulated to protect my electronic phones. The platform is selling online needs to be held to a higher standard. The fact is there often representing a company that does not have a storefront there may be a seller based outside of the United States. Consumersta are powerless and finding them. We cant walked in and talk to the returns count counter. Its easier to get ripped off. Think allowing fraudulent practice to continue will only cause consumers to be more cautious about buying online. That is going to be at the expense of smaller Reputable Companies that rely on that platform to promote and sell their products. So in the grand scheme of things 200 may not seemed like a lot of money, but regardless the amount it is theft of another persons precious dollars and for settlement like me or our Nonprofit Organization that serves and houses these youth on these essential donated dollars, every dollars absolutely vital. May say, look things first vice a 200 is not very much. One person multiply that by 100, 1000, 1 million guards talking serious dollars in a major major fraud cast out over a lot of people. I also want to say and i think its important your story got known until because of the incredible work that Craig Silverman from buzz fee did our data democracy and politics in her colleague trevor davis is a started looking into some of these proliferation of social media and emails theres a billion emails wrapped some of the stuff they found. They found your story. I think part of what is important is exposing these things. Thank you for sharing your story with them so it could be reported and thank you for sharing your story with us right now. We will come back to you. Doctor stokes owing to turn it over to you for your perspectiv perspective. Thank you. As an emergency physician in new york city, i have managed more than 100 cases of covid19. Ive lost count of how many people were exposed not to the virus itself but medical misinformation about the virus from the media. And it hurting my patients. When my first cases of the beginning of march wasnt elderly womanso brought in by her adult son she had a fever cough her oxygen was very low. When i told her son he did not believe me. E he did not believe the virus existed. He actually showed me facebook there is a post that said Something Like covid19 is a hoax made up by drug companies. That same week another patient was brought in by her daughter same symptoms, same diagnosis. But her daughter insisted to me there is no way her mother could have the virus because she went on facebook and said covid19 was prevented by antibiotics. So she went to the medic in her neighborhood picked up the pills for her mother and she been taken as every day. There is no way her mother could have covid19. I have had so many s of these conversations since the beginning of the outbreak. After everything weve been through in new york over these past months im still having these conversations. When i counsel patients and their families about the facts of covid19, they are understandably confused and scared because theyve been exposed to so much conflicting information they dont know whats real and what isnt. The common reaction is for family members to get angry and how is it even possible for the patient to have covid19y. My mother hasnt left the house she hasnt been in contact with anyone but the grandchildren they are all healthy. On that first they dont make the connection even they themselves are healthy and have no symptoms they can still have the virus they can still pass it on. Eventually after we talk it start to sink in on one of the things i will never forget is that look on someones face when all the sudden they realize they are the ones. They are the one who likely had the virus and likely pass it on to their loved ones who have now died. Ive seen that look so many times. Is something im going to remember for the rest of my lif life. I have been told the way to counter medical misinformation is to put out just as much accurate information. But social media is so fast i cant keep up. In the middle of a pandemic theres just not enough time w were fighting to keep our patients live on the front line. We should not be fighting this war of information at the same time its just not possible re arts arranged to have handled mass casualty events we are not trained for this. We need help. Thank you smacked doctor stokes thank you very much. Not only are you not trained hofor this, you should be spending your time treating patients not treating disinformation. But i want to ask you one question before going to senator blumenthal. The stories that you tell are really disturbing and very shocking of patients who think they can get appellant take a pill be immune from it these others examples you give. Are these and this is not scientific its anecdotal from your experience recognizing that are these rare cases are these 10 20 give us a sense from your lived experience, how prevalent is thisou misinformation . Disinformation . And what you hear from patients . I would say with great confidence the overwhelming majority just to give you a sense of it, the beginning of the outbreak their actual doctors what i do at the hospital is look at the literature there following best practices. I dont think we understand what it was like in the beginning of february beginning of march we just did not have enough information. On the hate to say it but id colleagues of mine who fell for some of the hoaxes we were seeing on facebook. I think now its much more clear, we are having people from the medical communities were not this early able to identify false information for misinformation what did they expect from patients . I dont think its possible to put the onus on people to know how to make decisions for their health that are based on solid good information. Thank you doctor stokes. Senator blumenthal let me turn to you, you have taken on Health Insurance industry, big tobacco, we have been outspoken advocate for consumer rights. In this case, as consumers as we heard from doctor stokes, are getting huge amounts of Bad Information across social media platforms. The scammers who are selling useless pills like this leading people to think they are immune. Conspiracy theories that will drive people in different directions. Lets turn it over to you and you can respond with what youve heard from randy smith, doctor stokes, give us a sense of what can, should be done about it . What should the platforms be doing about it . You are muted senator blumenthal we cannot hear you. Can you knew to yourself or we will unmute you . There we go. Unwelcome thank you for joining us. So let me have my thanks again to all of you who have described so compellingly some of the real harm that results from this disinformation. Into my colleagues thank you for being such a steadfast, energetic warrior on behalf of consumers. I will tell you my reaction as i listen to these stories from the real world i am so angry and worried, really outraged we use that word a lot but when you hear, randy smith says its only 200 but 200 here, 200 there and pretty soon youre trying but real money. I have been involved involving a lot less than 200 lawsuit for people. But what doctor stokes says so compellingly as there is a real threat to human life and safety. And so it can be a great boon can also be the bane of our lives. Theres a threat when they have disinformation and commonly they are displacement because they are complicit in the fact that aiding and abetting the spread of deceptive and misleading ads that do great harm or threaten great harm. I will give you one or two examples that are particularly out of bounds, across the line, congresswoman and i are writing a letter today we are releasing it, shes been a real leader in this effort that stated to the ftc they should be taking action nancy frauds and scam around the stimulus a payments. Those are being issued by the federal government. All too often people are not receiving it due to United States treasury lacking effort. And now what we are discovering is that people who go to google and counter fraudulent referrals google does or should know a scam. We are asking the ftc to take action. Not just against the advertiser advertisers, the con artist, but also google. It is taken action the past against advertisers or web designers that enable frauds to reach the people. We are asking the fcc to take action. You mentioned exposing these frauds will exposing them is very, very important. But enforcing against them is an obligation of the federal trade commission and the federal Communications Commission all of these groups and agencies have a real responsibility that affects peoples lives absolutely astonishing, by the way the project you are doing today the letter is a result of the transparency project. But like wise on fake cures the department of interest has 46 separate false cures they are Dietary Supplements their chemicals, there is no vaccine as you know for covid19 and there are no proven therapeutics or treatments and certainly none of these are. So im asking them to take action. And just to be clear these 46 fake cures are being promoted and represented as cures . And the platforms are you saying theyre doing nothing to pull them down to identify them to expose him . They did nothing on their own until he wrote the fcc. Now they are down but there are more in their place. So to your key point near the platforms are failing to act against them on their own until they are ordered to do so by the ftc and of course the ftc is limited in terms of its resources. But also in the past often it lacks the will to effect enforcement. We are also on the subject of masks going to some of the largest onlineto marketplaces, amazon, ebay and others and ask them to stop selling masks that are in the fact not effective but potentially dangerous to people. Doctor stokes probably encounters a lot of people who said i was wearing my mask all the time. And it was supposed to be an and 95 mask and they may be infected because of the misleading. You can go through pricefixing, profiteering, price gouging, also the deceptive and misleading ads and pictures, all of them directly with the result of these platforms complicity in the scam. Let me turn to you for a couple of minutes. You coauthored this letter with the senators he was just talking about it what exactly are you to calling to be done and again i would like you to ask as we are here now we are focusing on scams, fraud, ripping people off in the name of covid19 safety or health or cures or whatever it is. Tell us a little bit more about this letter and where it needs to go. Congresswoman you are muted as well, sorry. There we go. There are a number of tools we can use in one is going to the federal trade commission which really does have the authority, not only to enforce the fraudulent ads be taken down, but there are also penalties the federal commission could use. At this point we are calling on google to take responsibility. The issue of immunity that these platforms fill is a really dangerous situation along with senator blumenthal for facebook because they are allowinge the sale of the incline sleepers that have killed 100 children already in the Consumer Product Safety Commission says to not be sold. But they are selling them. I also want to thank the transparency projects, people are looking for information. And so they go to the internet. If they just look up who is selling the fraudulent items, including the masks. Randy tells us terrible stories. It is because while there may be some that are legitimate, the consumer has no way of knowing what the differences if there is not some regulation. Making sure we act in one of the big policies has been the immunity in section 230 of the Communications Decency act. Said they are hosting and they have no responsibility whatsoever. Thats a newew clearly hafted change and we have bipartisan support for that as well. Had the energy and Commerce Committee along with the chairman, had both sent a letter saying that that should not be included in Foreign Trade agreements. And you heard member of parliament talking about that. He said he was worried and Speaker Pelosi was worrying about that. They want to as ac is immunity all over the world right now. The Big Pharmaceutical Companies wanted to protect themselves with trade agreements all over the world. Congresswoman, they will say and ive heard them say in congressional testimony and elsewhere yes there should be regulation yes we want to be responsible. They will deny what you have just said that they are just putting out what ever i either dont care about itt or are not interested in doing anything about it. One of the things that was studied was found that google was not even living up to its own communities standards. I say but we have someone, weve hired people, hundreds of people so we are not liable here. We are just hosting we have nothing to do with it. Theyve been very schizophrenic. Yes we havent heard facebook had to apologize i think about ten times for things during the years they have done to put consumers or in this case now its time to ask definitively to put out the lines that cant be crossed to inquire require the federal trade commission is acting appropriately to make sure that people have said this is now life and death we are talking about. Okay lets travel north of this to canada. I will bring in a member of parliament there different laws, different place, perhaps different consideration that some have been very, very outspoken about but not a differentnt problem. Let us hear your perspective for a few minutes. We will open it up and i will bring doctor stokes and randy smith back in as well. As we face things online we need to make sure that reflects the reality and they get information across borders. We need to have solutions to this. [inaudible] they work alongside and its up and running and they want to know more about this. Theres over ten countries that are working together to identify what brings greater capability and have failed to take action. They failed to take action and level the responsibilities. You are not saying not taking enough action, you are saying they failed to take naction. So thats right. Ive been at this for a wild no now. Weve been calling for action associate with platforms whether its over collection of data or its allowing they can take action i would say in the course of the coronavirus theres bins completely into fiction action. What do we need in the end . Privacy Protection Laws its crazy if i put an app on this phone im expected to. [inaudible] to have that conversation need social media to taked responsibility on the platforms and ill tell you this past june i year ago to take responsibility for the comments on your platform and each company said yes. So we followed up on that we look at advertising an example we hear from randy certainly had Greater Transparency on facebook and other platforms the require a registry for greater accountability. In the case of randy we would see hope where facebook knows the number of people who surf those ads the ones that click through the ads, the last thing i will say is responsibility is with editors there being replaced by algorithms. This is not where they are merely a host they are actively promoting. When Richard Allen Vice President for facebook appearing and said that the illegal content we take it down. But if its right up against that line maybe we shouldnt promote it. Of course they should not promote it. Or they need to take action and ultimately it is. Doctor stokes y chi come back soon a minute for putting this conversation into the public crisis. Maybe we could have your experience with the campaigners is not new, right . And parallel what do you see . I think the parallels are unending. I think well before covid weve seen how the anti vaccine had deadly consequences to patients all over thes world. Some of i background includes working in global health. In backcountry there are three outbreaks going on ebola, measles, and covid19. And with measles there is a vaccine for that. And yet, here we are in 2020 we are still battling something as simple as that. One of the things it has been really disturbing looking at the mistrust to where providers actually becomes a new barrier for people already lacking access to care. Sometimes it turns deadly not just to the patients foot to the providers. People may not know this, but pretty much the start of the ten most recent outbreaks of ebola is over 400 attacks on the Treatment Center specifically targeting providers. They were linked to the nation thats going on is as these providers are trying to give ebola to the women and children that say that vaccines were trying to give her actually poisonous and again, you dont have to have theoretical conversations about this. You can measure this and how many lives are lost. Said great place togr come back to. Lets make the distinction between scammers they were going to sell the pill you can get healthy and conspiracy theories that drive distrust the prompt attacks like this. So center lets start with you. How did that media platforms themselves distinguished between these two . These are different things, right . At all falls under the big umbrella of disinformation but a driving Conspiracy Theory is meant to confuse is meant to so suspicion may be meant to prod violence or attacks its a different place it seems and actually think about the vaccine we hope is coming down the line for covid19 theres going to be a huge problem in this comes around. It is a huge problem right now because of the fake cure and you may distinguish them from the conspiracy fillet theory but to answer your question the platforms failed to oversee or scrutinize any of them the fact they have very weak methods of review. Some of them automated. But, heres the really important point they say to the public, we review them. We do our due diligence. We oversee them and in effect you can depend on them. But whether its Conspiracy Theory or false secure, they have terms of service that tells people they are overseeing or scrutinizing the ads and pitches and promotion that appear on the platform that is why the ftc can and must take action. What i would calling card and variety false, misleading and deceptive practice. Whether it is Conspiracy Theory the heartbreaking horrendous results have reallife effects on people acrossks the country, around the globe. Here is the dirty little secret and you knowre it. They have these really powerful machines that can target individuals. Konica billboard on a highway. They can target individuals who search for other automated procedures and they are selling this hugely efficient but possibly disruptive capacity to the highest bidder. It is in effect selling this capacity but in these cases. [inaudible] so anyone whos ever gone shopping for tires and suddenly tires start showing up all over your media even micro targeted in virtually every interaction youve ever had. We hadf another peace of video we started earlier that kind of illustrates this Conspiracy Theory focuses attention focuses on the 5g components lets just roll that quickly and come back and pick this up. Congressman allstar with you may come out of the video. Lets take a look. I [inaudible]eo there lighting cell phone towers on fire. The person the vehicle to me was screaming, shouting, 5g is killingut us all. We dont have any morals, dont have children are going to be ashamedav of me im going to kill everyone. In the next thing the guy in the car next to me gets out of his vehicle actually tries to open my door tries to get into my van making some threats. If he did get in the van there is a clear violence threat. He seemed quite keen on curing that out. Its crazy because i have seen so much on social media free too post whatever you would like. That can be quite dangerous. A lot is quite dangerous here it seems. Congresswoman your reaction to that . And to these conspiracy theories that go way beyond the shadow of doubt, they really threaten lives. Your muted sorry. You can see how it can promote violence, it can promote uprising, it can absolutely these platforms can be deadly one of the apologies thatof facebook made was allowing the promotion of the genocide that took place before they finally did shut down the website theres so much in danger out. We also have to have to acknowledge the tools theyre forced to follow the Community Standards for reform gives them immunity, when facebook representative came and spoke before a committee, about Community Standards. That over 2 billion individuals that participate in facebook. Its bigger than any other country in the world across borders across language we will double down even on political advertising but has to be truthful. And so we have a lot to worry about especially when wee talked earlier about the elections coming up. We want to make sure theres truth online. From the canadian perspective and looking at conspiracy theories that are out there, what do your best practices what do you or suggest can and should be done to hold these platforms accountable . We know these platforms are not creating it we know youtube recommendation function or Facebook Newsfeed there is accountability but i dont think it goes far enough. Using algorithms that could have negative impacts. That s could explain what that input ando do the the output in a number of actions are wired to address that. When you have such information amplified the platforms need to take responsibility for when they are profiting. We know they are broadcasting standards in all of our countries. From academics it calls for social media. Senator blumenthal given who and what we are your muted, sorry i think we could well who would be on that council would be sitting in judgment of her as a potential model actually included in a legislative proposal that i have made its bipartisan. The chairman of the Judiciary Committee he is a republican from south carolina. Essentially what attacked the problem of Human Trafficking thats done on these platforms. Of course that is in 230 it is a barrier to effective action against the platform so what we said is we will establish a panel with representation including the tech company and through those Tech Companies you have to comply with certain standards certain Long Term Service they are essentially guidelines and standards as to what is acceptable behavior. And then you can earn your section 2300 protection. This proposal is very narrow and carefully targeted measure that deals with section 230 immunity issue that the congresswoman talked about earlier. The states from a time when the internet just like when the Tech Companies were just getting into the field where they were having verdicts and lawsuits there now mammoth and they are more powerful than many small countries. So that kind of Standard Panel may be difficult to implement with respect to community ads, political ads, it is possible, but i think is even more feasible is for the platform to take real responsibility. When i began this effort against pornography on the platform, and said we really cant do any of the screening, we dont have the technology, was prealgorithm we can have people search every one of the ads. And low and behold when theyre given the incentive to do it namely the potential lawsuits and as attorney general i said we will do, they began to low and behold they began to police themselves. I think the same kind of self policing, internal responsibility as part of the reason here. They claim they do it, they dont really. You mentioned earlier how to best require them. I think legislation ultimately is the answer whether it is others like it that target these kinds of disinformation deceptive practices. I would like to bring in randy smith and doctor stokes again and give you an opportunity to speak to these three very distinguished lawmakers. Randy, lets start with you. You experience your incredible scam on a problem we have now learned about the explained to us. You deal with that and youre trying to do great things in the world. You see your continuing experience online theri platforms. You see these young people who you are trying to guide, shape, help. What would you say to these lawmakers and yes the parliament from canada from your perspective, really dealing on the very front lines of this . What do you need from the platforms and from them . Thank you a couple of things stood out that i heard. Certainly senator blumenthals great comment about targeted advertisers versus driving buying and seeing a billboard. The biggest problem i see with what theyre doing with these platforms are doing they are doing the redirect. Theyre not only redirecting consumers from True Solutions but they are bringing them to now is false and incorrect solutions that dont solve anything. That certainly affects a large segment of the population and certainly those we serve because many are lower income when they make a buying decision they rely on the fact it is going to happen. It could be masks that could be anything. So i think we have to i would ask that we look at this as not just a standalone case or cases, but the fact its redirecting some real solutions. Nay smith brought up fact check the point of being truthful. You could post something as fact check not correct why are these scams allowed to still go on my request think there needs to be legislation people he be held accountable to protect all consumers may be not as savvy and have very limited dollars. From a move that we are almost out ofar time. Those are complicit. We, as congress, do not want to be complicit by not doing what we need to do. And i hear you randy, i think there are things that we are required, at this point to do to protect consumers. None im so proud to work with senator blumenthal to make sure these things are happening. Mr. Smith . Your response . Randys point whether our practices mange to hold those and in the endnd we know their self regulation is. [inaudible] times we say we need regulation we need to have parliament and belonged to put rules in place. A problem. That is so important it makes it important makes it so much more complicated. These companies are Global Companies have a facebook friend whenever laws and accountability is not enough doctor stokes your discussion has been so unbelievable you work with patients up close to work with communities and scammers out there what would you say to these legislators that, as a doctor, looking at the physical health and the Public Health, we need the most . As a doctor i hope it makes it clear, i do not for one moment say i am an expert. Im just presenting ag problem. Obi want to make it clear that my testimony is not meant to vilify social media in the middle of a pandemic everyone is scared, people are dying. We are all looking for someone to blame. I think as much as possible to have a collaborative effort is always preferable to a a confrontation. One of the things mentioned by senator blumenthal is give me hope with social Media Standards council that would bring everyone to the table, i know there are people in r some of the companies and i mention facebook, there are people with good intentions who want to do good but their good intentions are just not good enough. They can figure out a way to harness their power, ring people together to come up with a solution, i think it is possible that we have that time in peoples lives. Senator blumenthal i will give you the concluding comment. I am always in favor help im not muted this time. I am always in favor of a collaborative effort. Of course my career in Law Enforcement leads me to it think that sometimes, although honey can work better than vinegar in some instances, sometimes Law Enforcement if necessarily as a deterrent and misconduct. I will say, and you mentioned it earlier that you have heard countless times big text say we are going to do it differently. This time will be different. We heard that at the beginning of the covid19 pandemic. And the starkest staggering truth you heard from frank smith, you heard from doctor stokes, as these kinds of scams and frauds and con artists are appearing regularly without any real action on the part of the platform. That is why we need affective enforcement. But we need real action. And honestly you are absolutely right that Congress Needs tots act as well whether if its a Community Standards panel or reform to section 230, or as Speaker Pelosi mentioned earlier may be other incentives like taking down advertising if that kind of effort can be organized effectively, maybe it can provide incentives for these platforms. Why do they not act more responsibly . Again i dont mean to be overly cynical, but their Business Model is targeted advertising that generates that in thatt Business Model that is generating billions and billions of dollars for llthis industry, sometimes its better served by their opening the gates without being too discriminating as to who comes through them. Before we go and i would ask this of all three legislators here quickly, do you feel that something is changing though . And may be byth covid19 . And the disturbances we are seeing and Everything Else the broad public is realizing that this is disinformation is not just out of control but a fundamental threat to our physical Health International health. And maybe you wont happen before the election, but there is a Critical Mass that is shifting around this issue and maybe we are going to get serious or mi just just chirping into the wind . If i could think this is a transformational moment. I am very optimistic about change. And the reason is, it looks like ordinary people have really found their voice a kind of insistence i hear they want to be treated fairly. And to all different arenas i do feel optimistic that we need to do on disinformation and also the Racial Justice and all the problems youre facing right now with the coronavirus. Yes, i do think we can. I think its a question of whether congress if congress yields to the special interests to the financial power of the platform and big tech, this will be exceedingly difficult on gun violence prevention. The American People overwhelmingly, 75 on the gun manufacturers have managed to get a grip on congress to keep it from happening. I think were in a transformational moment on Racial Justice, on economic justice, on hopefully the pandemic in terms of healthcare. But congress has to be at least on par with the American People, not behind it, not with a special interest. I think there is a growing sense is you are right, when it comes to saving lives especially during the pandemic. They had lovins to her family and friends in the challenge is the misinformation related to covid but also comes from the largest megaphone in the United States and possibly the world with president trump. [inaudible] and want to you all very much, senator blumenthal, you are all phenomenally busy especially in the midst of all this, thank you so much for spending some of your valuable time on such an important topic. To doctor stokes, your work with human beings who are sick or s who feared getting sick, you are up against so much and have been through so much yourself, a special thank you for everything you have done. Our very best for you to stay healthy and strong and continue doingtr this great work. Your contributions to this conversation have added so t much. I hope our members of senate and congress will keep close to them as they go about their business. Randy smith, the work you do with at risk youth and the experience you have had, i am glad you are able to expose some of that for very, very large audience thank you for spending your time here. Hope that does not happen again. You were very articulate and compelling in all of this. So thank you as well. It has been a very, very full hour. A couple of final thoughts. Heres what we know when what weve heard. Wewe are suffering through a global pandemic, experiencing some of the worst economics not some, the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression and a number of ways. A global thing were also witnessing a push for change in our streets, our communities driven by years of disparity and injustice of the covid19 pandemic has made worse. And it has made clear we are watching trillion Dollar Companies that as we have heard often put profit over human toll turn blind eye or due to little in front of the disinformation crisis. We have heard so clearly in the words of the doctors who have joined us here, dis information can kill with social media platforms must recognize their responsibilities, their citizens to their consumers they must step up and put their wealth and the resources of all of that brilliance that has made them what they are today part of the solution to stop the scourge of disinformation that distracts, divides, confuses us and cost lives along the way. The participants in this forum that we have had our demanding more from accountability from the social media platforms. They are working to force chang change, regardless of your politics to protect citizens and consumers and we are very grateful to the speakers time at the outset of our earlier panel. The admonitions from the European Commission in our earlier panel. The contributions of all of our panelists and witnesses especially grateful for those with the powerful testimony with those working with this problem the legislators around the world to collaborate and regulate the regulatory staff tackling these issues and some are convening tomorrow and be very closely following the process. I want this is one of a series of panels we are hosting i hope youll join us again on june 29 for the form on the really timely topics of election interference, racialized hate, and voter suppression. Behalf of the George Washington data democracy and public affairs, Whose Mission is to help the public and journalists and policymakers better understand and develop sound solutions to disinformation and other online harms, like to thank you very much for joining us. then, University Professor Carol Anderson chronicles the changes to voting requirements following the 2013 Supreme Court ruling in shelby versus holder. In later Senior Advisor for former Vice President joe biden 2020 president ial campaign Simone Sanders offers her thoughts on how americans can use their voices for change. Next author in American Enterprise Institute Scholar you yuval levin talks about the political divide in the country today. He is the author of the great debate, the fractured republic, and a time to build. This indepth interview is two hours. Author yuval levin here on the june 7, 2020, what is your assessment of the United States . Thank you for having me, thats a broad question open with and its a challenging one, were living in a moment of crisis and thats hard to deny, weve been through a spring that has been dominated by a Public Health crisis that is very much with us, we are facing now a social crisis that is as old as our country in some ways, the struggle for racial equality and for human