Post to say if donald trump wins, his wife is an immigrant. Especially at that time he was having a rally that day really about the wall to keep immigrants out. So i started to make calls and it was just shocking how little was known about basic autobiographical information. Donald trump has been in the public eye forever. Why do we know so little about milania . A bunch of reasons but she only arrived in america in 2006 so i had to travel to her native countrys lenient part of the former yugoslavia. And was a socialist country and right around the time that she left that whole bulk and area i was involved in conflict when i was going around its very interesting how many said i got a call dont talk. And that enigmatic and mysterious. One of the effects of that people make assumptions about her that you discovered turned out not to be true. Tell us about some of those. Because we didnt see her on the campaign trail we dismissed her as a nonplayer. But it turns out even though you dont see her and certainly dont hear her that she does have influence with her husband. During the campaign, former Campaign Managers would say after a rally, trump led get in the car in the very first call would be how did i do . What do you think . And she would give advice about what was resonating, and also a cheerleader behind the scenes to tell him as one person after another said what trump be trum trump. She admires his connection to people. One of the reasons it is hard for her to do public speaking. English is not her first language. Thats what you discover as well. There have been stories that say milania trump like many european are fluent in multiple languages and you think thats not correc correct . All i could find basically there is no evidence of that. And thats a key part of her resume just to check things i just wanted proof. I even asked the white house. There is a timeline she is in italy and france where she speaks for a very short time like little words like toddlers but it is in a fluency. So i said i cant find anything online. Can you send it back there was radio silence from the white house. She has had a lot foreign trips and opportunities. Shes met the pope certainly met the french president and his wife so it took months and months and i asked everybody did you have private conversations with her and with dozens of interviews that i did nobody said that she did. Can i say she doesnt . Im not saying that but it is very very noticeable but there is no evidence of that. At that time Jackie Kennedy in the sixties way before iphones made it easy you can find a Jackie Kennedy online giving along address in french and spanish. So so to tell me about this is a key part of your resume. Covering the Pulitzer Prize of a band cooperative with you . I have been a foreign correspondents working on three continents for 15 years. I have written about drug cartels and interviewed the mob in japan and drug leaders in prison. Nothing. Nothing compared to how difficult it was to get real information on milania trump. When i did interview her during the campaign her husband was a little ditty running for president. I thought it was very interesting when i asked for an interview that i was directed to talk to him first. What did he want to know . It wasnt said that way but i asked for an interview for milania and they said mr. Trump would like to see you. I got on the train to washington and went to trump tower. I remember walking into the office and trump tower and he had 100 magazines on his desk. Every single one had a picture of himself on them on and the walls were lined and there was so many there was an overflow. I said i didnt know you were moving it was such a mess. He said no no no. Never trust anybody with a tidy desk. It was bizarre but a very trump conversation where he had the television on his messy desk watching the masters Golf Tournament and turned back to me and he speaks and tangent not a lot of linear thought. But he did say i asked about milania he said all these great things about her then i got the green light afterwards. Milania trump is in very few interviews she did during the campaign but not in person . By phone . Even then only by phone. Normally you dont say 44 minutes but thats a long time for her to talk to someone. What is interesting she has one heck of a story to tell. Think of it. She was 26 years old and she first arrived in the united states. Twenty years later shes headed to the white house. Incredible story. She grew up very modestly in a socialist country minus department, mom worked in a factory. Now married to a rich guy in the white house. Is easy to understand why she doesnt want to be more forthcoming. Its not her nature. Shes met all of the donald trump books. Her branding is exactly opposite. Trump became trump he never stopped talking he put his name on every building. Trump buildings and magazines and she is the opposite. She knew she wasnt comfortable in the public eye but she is extreme in her own secretive to stay silent. You say if anke on dash ivanka calls with a portrait. That she was poised interest but milania calls ivanka the princess. And to be clear they dont use those words to their face. She is a teenager and her dad started to go out divorced twice, still in the middle of the divorce with marla maples when he took up with milania. And ivanka said oh my god. She talks about is much as the painting on the wall and then they called for the portrait. Both are former models could not be more different. Not a big surprise they dont get along. Host going back to milania. Her parents continue to be enormously important in her life. Tell us about her mother and father. I am most fascinated by her mother. An important portion according to everyone i talked to. The far most important person in her life and is with her most days in the white house. And she takes care of baron. She is the right hand and the left hand to milania. But her mom is fascinating she grew up world war ii tearing her apart which was then yugoslavia. Beautiful and stylish and the seamstress. A former monastery and when they took over after world war ii took the catholic and church land to nationalize it. It was a state factory that made close and she worked there two decades. Because she didnt have a College Degree or the right degree she didnt get paid or recognition for the talent she had. But everyone in town said she was the most stylish. When milania was little and her sister they had handmade clothes that kept them apart and thats important in a time when everybody was the same. Every the building is the color of a storm cloud. And then one family on one side meant thats the same side of the apartment that you got. Everyone went to the same department own vacation homes so to stand apart and look beautiful with handmade clothe clothes, everybody remember the mother and what she did for the kids. Host he went to this place is there a gift shop . No. First of all it reminds me of ireland, all green. Its a small country. Its pretty small and theres only one hotel and that open because people were coming because of milania. It has trees and it is lush and lovely. People there are divided. And pretty much because of her husband. Pretty much every country including their own they loathe him or love him and there is a lot of division over there. There is quite a lot of the disappointment she doesnt speak about her country more and that translates there is she embarrassed . But the most famous slovenian in america is a basketball player for the mavericks. But its not milania. Thats incredible. The basketball superstar is the most written about. What you wrote about is there a very a lot of people that are important to her and her different stages of her life. But she doesnt have seem to have kept up with them or a network of friends from her life. Is that true . Its almost like she took a big eraser when she was done they are gone. There was a little girl they were very close to in matching highrises and played every day. That woman is an artist and she said since she left then that was it. And many other people tell the same story. Photographers who helped her get her pictures when she was 21 said that is it. She just kept moving on and never liked back. Never talk to the past. That made it easy when she met trump because he was not interested in her past. He is interested in trump. It with marla maples always having people around with marla maples with her mother and father and cousins milanias parents are super quiet in the public doesnt even really know about them. And certainly has not been people from her past. It is striking at her wedding 99. 9 percent of the guests were people she had met through donald trump. Her father is still around tell us about him. Donald trump likes to golf but baron like soccer and milanias father, victor, is a great soccer fan. There was a lot of cartoons in slovenia how much donald looks like milanias father. And they are the same age. Victor is to be a good looking guy now outspoken i talked to his buddies in slovenia and they said he was a car above going up and brilliant with cars. Take apart and put together and repairs cars. He was a chauffeur for the mayor of town. The nicest car and loved mercedes. And chauffeur in a tiny little shop think of it as the farmer chauffeur is now driven by secret service. All the cars he wants. It is an amazing story. Host you talk about milania trump rarely talking about her native country. That is true but i was surprised to learn in the art of the deal she has joint citizenship and continues to and that baron has joint citizenship. Why does she maintain and make sure her son has it as well . I think this is super interesting. Because yet again what she doesnt talk about the old days because she doesnt care about them. Thats never the case with milania. She is more complicated and nuanced than people give her credit for. She did that im sure to give her son options. Citizenship that baron is entitled to as slovenia that makes a lot of things easier with the passport he can work freely in all of europe much more easily. And then its hard because of a foreigner but its to get a job. So it is much easier for him. And also in with the slovenian passport. She has an amazing press conference theres only one person of all these journalist who met her in 1998 where she had a rare day all day long she talks with journalists. And to hear what she had to say. And so outspoken. This is milania center stage. One thing she kept talking about it would you like to get us citizenship. She said yes because its more options and opportunities. She is a mama bear with her son and that just gives you more options and opportunities to give him citizenship and passport. Easier to set up a business and get a job and inherent land. And just giving options to her son. And then im sure that has never happened. We only had one first lady born abroad that was louisa adams. That was england and not a socialist country. Milania is the only first lady whose first language is not english. Host he talk about how protective of she is of her son baron which we can understand. But the disclosure that has gotten the most attention is her efforts to renegotiate her prenup after the election and 2016 what had a lot to do with baron. That was an explosive story. Tell us about that. Donald trump has written many many books and said in tv interviews any rich guy who doesnt get her prenup is a loser and he also uses the word stupid. We knew they had a prenup in fact milania was on tv around the time of the wedding and said yes. We knew that and also trump thinks hes the greatest negotiator in the world. So in his book the art of the deal and why he such a good negotiator. Leverages when you have a somebody else once or better yet cant do without. So here is milania by a many accounts did not get a very good deal because he drives a hard bargain. And said publicly that said that she wanted more than she got. She is a long game player in politics has been great for the leverage table for milania trump. Because when she went into the public arena he needed her in any way. For instance they were negotiating the prenup with the famous hands swat on the tarmac. Negotiations were going on and it was very noticeable that she was not very cuddly with him the hands swat around the world. And she stayed in new york. All of those things showed that she knows how to make a deal and shes a very good dealmaker. She wouldnt call it making a deal but what she said i want to do this to make sure that baron is treated as equally as the oldest three children. The oldest three eric and don junior and ivanka front and center in front world on trump world and get a lot more attention than tiffany, his child with marla maples or baron. It works. I was told more than many. But she wanted to make sure baron had a steak and was treated equally. Especially because the oldest three children now have their children. Theres a lot more errors. Milania is 50. Donald trump is 24 years olde older, baron is still only 14. And the cartoons that people are drawing but now they say eric trump is working for baron trump because milania in the long run is quite as she is got a far better deal. This is a hard question because we spent all the time doing research and thinking about milania and donald trump what is the strength of their marriage . Love is complicated i think trump love is really complicate complicated. But i am told when they first got together there was a real connection there. I think it was real. He admires her. She is cool. When she is angry she doesnt scream or do anything impulsive but just walks away. He loves her cool. She admires him. She admires what he is able to do and his connections with people. They are both distrustful of most people. They both like the same things. The image they both value beautiful things and wealthy things they like a lot of the same things. They have a lot more in common than people think and they are a really tight unit for her its her family mother and father and baron in very few others penetrate. But their relationship has had rocks at different times. They been together 22 years. I have a lot in the book about this but she was furious after the revelation of infidelity. Embarrassed to know and reading about Stormy Daniels and access hollywood. But she has an extraordinary capacity to figure out what is my next best move . Somebody who is known her for a long time she doesnt do anything in a hurry she get more from walking away from trump are staying with him. Do you think those disclosures, they were embarrassing but with a surprising . Several key people told me she learned the details for those press reports. She did not know the details. I find it hard to believe she didnt now she knew something was going on. Im pretty clear the details and complicity. She has a son she hates how he talks. That access Hollywood Tape where he was talking tens of millions of people for it him say things and he, people thought this and other people were moving quickly into how are we going to spin this but it was pretty clear pretty quickly that trump was worried about melania because he knew if she couldnt stand by him right then, female voters come it was a close race, Hillary Clinton would be the first woman president and without her backing him up and he didnt even win most votes, just the key states, 10,000 votes in one state made a difference in some cases, so i went to pennsylvania right after that because melania spoke. But a fraction of 1 said they send melania out there and she stood up to a crowd of mostly women and vouched for him and he won pennsylvania. Nobody would dispute how important she was at that moment. Host you write about other ways she had influence over donald trump including some of the most fundamental, who to choose as a running mate. Guest this is why people underestimate her. Theres the east wing of the white house or even more quiet residential parks. He thinks she has good instincts. During a campaign when he was trying to figure out who to pick for a president , former three were former new jersey governor christie and mike pence. She spent two days with them in july of 2016. She knew christie for a long time and they talked about he really needs help on capitol hill with people again that i spoke with right in the middle of this said this is your guy because he will be content to be number two and not be gunning for your job. As anthony told me, trump likes to be the star. He didnt want a costar. Host sometimes people say why should we Pay Attention to the first lady, why does it matter so if someone said that to you, what would you say, why should we care . Guest somebody that knows a lot about the first lady, theres a book called the matriarch and im going to answer the matriarch about george bushs private life and the book that answers this question. Guest part of that was the era that she grew up born in 1925 and women didnt have the opportunities they have now with significant influence behind the scenes. I think some of that has chang changed. Do you find that attitude prevails even now not to recognize the influence that they could have . Guest i think that if we write about a cabinet member, we should be writing about who ever it is we could be writing about who is influencing the most powerful people is no if not tht powerful person in the world. So to say she is inconsequential i think misses the point. Theres not that many women in history for one of the most public and the world she has the most taxpayer staff of 100. Who is this person that potentially could do a lot. Her influence so far has not been the biggest platform. Its been behind the scenes. But the reason we are interested is it important to know who are the influences with that much power. Do you think she likes being first lady . Yes. She will be smiling and happy then she walks out and looks like someone has a gun behind her. When i was a mill on where she worked as a model, people said that in the 90s, she was trained that way. You are not supposed to smile because you didnt want to draw attention away from what they were modeling, the closings were modeling. Even more than that, she came second in this important modeling contest. It was nationally televised, there were hundreds of applicants, it was down to the finalists. I talked to many people there that night and they said you never would have known, she was completely motionless and she was 21 so some of it is just h her. She likes to be where the action is and loves meeting people, the pope, the queen, she gets to travel to interesting places. Theres a lot of stuff online that we know she hates, but i think that she really enjoys the white house. Host does she have a circle of friends that she turns to comment because i couldnt say she seems that a pretty nice lady just looking at what we see of her publicly. Guest she certainly hasnt reached out to michelle obama. She has had a team with laura bush that even roslyn carter, as you said, it is important. It is an unusual role. Think about how isolating that is. Host is she kind of modeling herself in the role of . Guest i think this is interesting she was asked this question in 1999 over and over because people forget that trump was first publicly talking about running for president in 1999 to 2000. Some of them are not easy to find. That was the headline of the first state and they were in talk magazine. There was a picture of her in a bikini lying on a rug with the president ial seal in a mock oval office. At the time people were joking about it they didnt think that he was serious. In the stories she was asked and while dressed in a bikini about to lie on a rug for the photo she said i like to be traditional like Jackie Kennedy. Shes over and over talked about Jackie Kennedy. Clearly her mother who is brunette, very good looking, very elegant was called as a factory worker because she was so elegant and its kind of an amazing story shes now spent a lot of time in the white house. Host the campaign is discussed we are waiting to see how this is going to change that it is fairly good news that she announced again before. This woman who basically ceded that will. She has the most popular racing i think everybody knew even before that this was going to be a tough race. The republicans wanted her, the numbers were better. But then been canceled and she was careful talking about Wearing Masks so it is unclear if she likes to cut polished videos. Huge during 2016 so right after access hollywood interviewing women that they i said what do you think right after the acts of hollywood and basic shes so beautiful that it says something about trump. She cant be that bad. Do you think she wants him to win a second term . Guest when i spend too much time in the campaign talking about that, most all of my interviews were done before the protests with civil unrest that have all of these blacklist matter and she everyone i talked to said she wanted to win again. She was upset about the impeachment, there was a mentality where she hunkered down and bought a second term would vindicate their name. Also, she was thinking of baron. It would be kind of perfect because hes 14, four more years, ready for college. This is what people were telling me then. Ive got to believe with the recent events in all the protests did they change. If the relationship goes up and down. I thought it was very noticeable she didnt go across the street to that infamous night when there was teargas clearing out protesters in front of the white house and trump came and held up a bible for the famous photo op. She wasnt there. I thought that was interesting. Host she was an important voice urging him to run the first time. She took him seriously than most of us were not. Guest thats their bond. Even the lawyers were telling me trump thinks about trump, melania thinks about trump. She has been his biggest supporter and told him for instance that forget all these people mocking you. She believed he could win and that was important and she urged him to do it. I think its fascinating that she came from another country, she reads a lot and it drives some people in the white house crazy because she finds critical things and then trump will get upset, but her point is she wants them to know who is on his side. They have the loyalists and the non loyalists. People are upset about in one way shes not elected, shes just an influence, but like you were saying before what are women supposed to think about this first lady, is she really liked trump, the answer is shes like him in some ways and not in other ways. But she has been with him at the critical moment and one of the things that surprises people is given the issue on immigration that she would be with a man that takes such a negative view with herself, her parents, her sister, theyve all benefited by open immigration to the united states. Guest this is the most important thing to me and you will see a lot about this in the she hoped her parents become u. S. Citizens and in the same week they got their citizenship trump complained about what he called chain migration which is exactly what she had just done meaning she had become a citizen and can help her parents achieve going down the same line. It is unbelievable that what he said. Hes made a lot of the language ugly about it and i think that many extended family members in slovenia are upset about this. She has had very tepid but clear distance from that. First of all she said she didnt want a border policy that separated kids at the border. She allowed her attorney to go on tv, the attorney told her parents, to go on tv and be identified as her attorney blasting her husband for what he was saying those ugly words. I dont think that its enough for most people. They are disappointed that she hasnt said mark. Host so far as you know, did her parents in herself and her sisters follow the rules when it came to immigration . Guest it seems to me seemede according to the documents that i have seen the one thing that is very complicated its very suspicious the lawyers that worked with her originally. Trump doesnt give his documen documents. Why doesnt she lay out the documents. Its the centerpiece of the campaign. She doesnt show us the papers it was like a sixweek period and then she got her work visa. But when they would throw someone out of the country for doing Something Like that it is fair to say. Once she did that she followed the steps. Her parents and her sister did it look like they followed the rules of the day . Guest bakeoff money to get great lawyers so i think its fair to say they had a leg up but this is the way that america works. Its hard to say melania hasnt done well. They do well in america and then they bring people over. Donald trump has said that he wants to change that. Guest i have no interest ihad no interest inmaking the c. Its more to describe this interesting inconsequential little known figure. The last question that they ask you what kind of response have you gotten since the book came out from the white house and team trump . Guest the public response how you view her is how you view him so those that dont like him and there are a lot like how could he even write about it and defend those like him how could you be so mean to her, why didnt you talk about the fact that she had exaggerated her resume. The white house came out with a statement. There is no specific facts. They were asking for fact checks and another interview in asking to talk to other people. They would say send me more questions. They wanted to know what i had. They wouldnt even say that. She likes the gap and history thanks for the conversation and writing this book. Critical of the president. The president s brother has now filed a second motion to the new York Supreme Court to hold the bucs released based on the argument they violated a nondisclosure agreement signed. New york times reporter chronicled the first year of the largest class of women elected to congress. Heres a portion of the discussion. There had to be a gender focus. As we all know, with women often could be talked to running, so, if that is the case with women you have to recruit women directly. I talked to a woman who had run in a primary in North Carolina and was stunned to see how many women just didnt believe another woman should have a job so it is regional but its a concerted effort i think. Its not just come on and run. There have to be changes in place for that. I want everyone to know that before we get started. This