Works. All programs are also available as podcasts. It is great to talk with you. It seems to me that Melania Trump is the most mysterious, if thats true . Guest i certainly do. Thats why i set out to do this because i thought there was a strange fact of information. I remember turning to the editor of the news room saying it his wife is in emigrants especially at the time so i started making calls and it was shocking how little was known about the basic biographical information. Why did we know so little about Melania Trump . Melania trump . Guest theres a bunch of different reasons. Right around the time that whole area also she wants it that way. People said i got the call dont talk to anybody. People make a lot of assumptions about heard that you discovered not to be true. Talk about those. Guest because we didnt see her on the campaign trail is kind of dismissed her as if she isnt a player. She does have an influence on her husband. After a rally complicated in the car. She would say let trump be trump. She admires his connections to people. Thats one of the interesting things you discover as well. Fluid and multiple languages you found out that is possibly not perfect. Guest there was no evidence of that because it was a key part going through and checking things and i just wanted to prove and documents and a case of. Theres a couple tapes online where shes in italy or france and speaks for a very short ti time. She had an opportunity i went around and took months and months and asked everybody okay did you have private conversations at least nobody says that she did. In the meantime Jackie Kennedy you could find the loan address tell me about this because it is a key part of the resume. You have won the Pulitzer Prize and cover all kind of stories. What a cooperative wit they coou in doing this book and can you compare . Ive been a Foreign Correspondent and worked in three continents abroad for 15 years. Ive written about drug cartels and interviewed the head of the mob in japan and got drug leaders in prison but nothing compared to how difficult it was for Melania Trump, real information. In the campaign i had to be visited by her husband who was a little bit busy running for president. It is interesting righ this intd when i asked for an interview thabut i was directed to talk wh him first. Host what did he want to know about you . Guest it wasnt exactly said that way. Just all of a sudden they said mr. Trump would like to see you. So i got on a train and went to trump tower and i remember walking into that office he had about 100 magazines on his desk. Every single one of them had a picture of himself on it and then on the walls he had photos of himself. There was so many doors overflow leaning against the wall. I said i didnt know you were moving. It was such a mess. He said no, never trust anybody with a tidy desk. So it was a bizarre conversation where he had a Little Television on his desk watching the masters Golf Tournament is a good talk about that and talk about jared. He is very he did say only great things about Melania Trump and apparently i got the green light because i got the greenlight afterwards. She did the interview that she wouldnt do it in person, is that right . She would only discuss for 44 minutes and you dont normally say 44 minutes thats a long time for her to talk to someone. Thats what is so interesting is that she has a heck of a story to tell. Think of it she was 26yearsold when she first arrived in the United States and 20 years lat later. She grew up very modestly in a socialist country in a modest apartment. Her mom worked in a factory and now shes married to a rich guy living in the white house. Its really kind of hard to understand why the. Shes read all of the donald trump books and her branding is the opposite here. Trump became trump because he never stopped talking. He was in every magazine. The usa that ivanka had a nickname for her, the portrait coming and im sure that reflects that she was beautifully dressed and poised and Melania Trump called ivanka [inaudible] she declared they didnt use those words to their faces. She talked about as much as a painting on the wall. According to everyone i talk to. She is right there and cooks and takes care of baron that is what a friend of hers told me. She was a talented seamstress and worked in a building i went into, it was a former monastery and then when the communist dictator took over on the church land and nationalized it. She worked there for three decades. Seems to be the color of the storm cloud to both beautiful and have handmade clothes. Everybody remembered. The little town is pretty small people were coming to it. It is all green and lush and lovely. The people there are divided into its pretty much because of her husband. Theres people in every country including our own that either love him or loathe him so theres a lot of division of a its not Melania Trump. Doesnt seem to have kept up with them. If so why do you think that that is happening . There were matching high rises every day when they went to the capital, that was it and many other people tell the same story. That was if she just kept moving on. Trump wasnt interested in my defense, he was interested in trump. The certainly she hasnt stopped people from her past. It was striking that at her wedding, 99. 9 of the guests were people that she met through donald trump. Host so her father is still around. Tell us about him. Guest donald trump likes to golf dot baron likes to play soccer. Her father is a greater soccer fan. He speaks slovenian with his grandparents. Theres lots of cartoons about how donald trump looks like her father, victor. They are both about the same age. Victor used to be a goodlooking guy now hes in his 70s and now outspoken. She was a car buff growing up. He repaired cars, with a show show for. Think of it here is this guy with a tiny little shop. Hes now being driven by the secret service. Its an amazing story. Host you talked about how Melania Trump talks about but i was surprised to learn in the art of the deal she has continued joint citizenship. Why does she maintain and make sure her son does as well . Guest this is interesting because what is interpreted. It was the case with melania. For sure more complicated and nuanced then people get hurt credit for. She did that i am sure and according to those who spoke with her to give us on the options. If you have citizenship which he is entitled to a you can work freely in all of europe much more easily like somebody coming from another country in the u. S. Right now it is tough to. It would be much easier for him and gives more options. There was an amazing press conference and there was only one person at all of these journalists in 1998 where all day long she was talking to journalists and we spent months to hear what she had to say. One of the things she kept talking about someone asked her she said would you like to get u. S. Citizenship and she said yes because it is more opportunities. She is a mother bear with her son and was given more options and opportunity to getting that citizenship and passport, to get the job and set up a business. Its just getting off to her son. Host it is quite remarkable. We had won the first lady before that was louisa adams quite a while ago. Guest shes the only first lady that isnt english. Host you talked about how protective she is of her son, but the story that has gotten the most attention is the effort to renegotiate after the election. That was an explosive story. Tell us about that. Guest donald trump has written in many books and said in tv interviews. So we knew that they had a prenup. Around the time of the wedding they said yes they had a prenup. They also think hes the greatest negotiator in the world. In his book, the art of the deal, he talks about why and says i know how to get leverage. Or better yet, they cant do without. So by all accounts of the many people that ive talked to that couldnt get a very good deal because he drove a hard bargain and we know that the first two said publicly they asked and wanted more than they got, so if politics has been great for the leverage because he needed her in a new way. They were negotiating the prenup on the tarmac with the negotiations were going on and were noticeable. Of all of those things that showed she knows how to make a deal and is a good deal maker. She wouldnt call it making a deal. What she said is i want to make sure baron is treated as equally as they oldest three and get a lot more attention to. Guest it works. Host i was told she wanted to make sure baron had a steak and was treated equally especially because the older three have their own children. Baron is only 14. I was fascinated by the cartoons people are drawing a because of the prenup and they have things about working for baron trump because Melania Trump in the long run date gets according to the people i talked to. Here is a question because it is a mysterious thing. You spend all this time doing research and thinking around the melania and donald trump. What di do you think is the nate of their attraction and quality backs like you said, love is complicated. I am told when they first got together there was a real connection. He admires her. When she gets angry she doesnt scream, she just walks away. He loves her cool and she admires him into the connection to people. They are both distrustful of most people. They like the same things in most ways. They both like a lot of the same things. I think that they actually have a lot more in common than people think and they are a tight unit. And for her it is her mother and father in a tight group and very few others. The relationship clearly has hit the rocks at different times. Theyve been together for 22 years. I have a lot in the book about this. She was embarrassed to no end after reading about Stormy Daniels and access hollywood, but she has an extraordinary capacity to kind of figure out okay where is my next best move. She doesnt do anything in a hurry. They learned details to all of those press reports and didnt know the details. She knew something was going on but im pretty sure that its the details and the publicity about it. She hates how he talked on that access Hollywood Tape where he was talking, caught on tape, tens of millions of people heard him say gross things about grabbing any woman he wants. She didnt know that tape existed or old that she would be in for when they went into politics. She could have blown up his president ial ambition by publicly walking away. It was a perilous time in the campaign but she stood by him. What is your sense about why she did that . Guest the scene in the book about this. They hit play they were getting read from here on out and everybody thought the Campaign Died there. Other people were moving quickly into okay how are we going to spin this. But it was pretty quick that trump was worried about melania because he knew if she couldnt stand by him right then, if its closebrace and without her backing him up, he didnt even win most votes, just 10,000 votes in one state made the difference in cases, so i went to pennsylvania right after that because melania spoke. Pennsylvania was the key ground. At a fraction of less than 1 and stood up to a crowd, mostly women in the crowd and vouched for him. I thought nobody would dispute this moment. Just her preference made a difference in the campaign at that moment. Were you worried about other ways that she had influenced again i think this is why people underestimate her. She doesnt go into the west wing. She stays in the first ladys quarters. She has brought in candidates for jobs in the he doesnt trust that many people and things that she has good instincts. In the campaign when he was trying to figure out who to pick for Vice President , the last three were the former House Speaker gingrich, new jersey governor christie, and mike pence. She spent two days with the mike pence family in july of 2016 and after she had met gingrich and there was talk because he really needs help on capitol hill that the people that i spoke with right in the middle of this said once she said to donald mike pence is your guy because he will be content to be number two and will be gunning for your job like the other two. Its interesting to me she got a bath but also knows how to predict the argument because as anthony told me, trump likes to be the star and again, that was a very appealing way to present the Vice President ial candidate. Sometimes people say why should we pay any attention to the first lady, why does it matter, so if someone said that to you, what would you say, why should we care . Somebody that knows a lot about the first lady and has written a marvelous book called the matriarch and wrote a lot about the subject of she wrote matriarch about george bushs private life and i thought that he answered this question. The i think part of it was the era she grew up. Born in 1925. They didnt have the opportunities they have now. Barbara bush was accustomed and comfortable with significant input behind the scene. Some of that has changed and maybe it will change more. Do you feel that attitude prevails even now with a tendency not to recognize the influence that they could have . I if they write about a cabinet member, we should be writing about whoever it is. We can be writing out the most powerful people i if not the mot powerful person in the world. Shes also a historic figure. Not that many women in history. She has a taxpayerfunded staff. She has a platform that potentially could do a wash. Her influence so far has been behind the scenes harder to see, but i think the reason we are interested is its important to know who are the influences into politics. Using melani using Melania Trump likes to be first lady backs guest guest. Sometimes she has that cold blood or looks trapped as some people have said. The she will be smiling and natural and happy and then she walks out and looks like someone has a gun behind her. In the 90s, she was trained that way. You are supposed to not smile. You didnt want to draw attention from the clothes you are modeling. Even more than that, she came second in this contest when she was 21. Nationally televised, hundreds of applicants. Shes tied for second place. We talked to many people there that night and he would never have known she one. Shes only 21. She doesnt show she likes being first lady but by all accounts, she likes to be where the action is and meeting the pope, the clean, she gets to travel to interesting places. Theres a lothere is a lot of se that we know she hates, but she enjoys the white house. Host does she have a circle of friends that she trusts because ive got to say she seems like a pretty nice lady just what we see of her publicly. Guest this is too bad. She doesnt reach out enough. She has had key with laura bush. And just like you said, it is important. There are people that have been in this unusual role. Think about how isolating that is a shes kind of modeling herself enough mold. Guest she was asked this question in 1999 over and over. There was a headline about the first state they were in talk magazine i found a picture of her she was lying on a bug with the president ial seal in a mock oval office. People were joking about it. They didnt think that trump was serious, but in stories she was asked so while dressed in a bikini and allowed to lie on the rug for this photo she said i like to be traditional like Jackie Kennedy. Her mother who is very goodlooking and elegant was called when she was a factory worker by her friend, jackie because she was so elegant and its kind of an amazing story that the mom is now spending a lot of time in the white house. It is a remarkable story. Host so the whole case was offended by coronavirus. What role do you think she played . What should we expect to see from her during the campaign . Guest it was big news that she announced she was going to go to fund raise. This basically was going to be a tough race. Republicans wanted melania, her poll numbers are better than the during the 2016 im in pennsylvania interviewing women that that day was that what you think of melania after access hollywood standing up and they said you know, she is so beautiful that it says something about trump. She wouldnt put up with it. So definitely an asset in different ways. They spend too much time talking with people about that. Most was done before the latest protest with the civil unrest. Everyone i talked to said she wanted to win again. She didnt like to lose, she was ambitious and hunkered down and wanted to fight a. She thought being 14, four more years, he is read hes ready fo. This is what people are telling me. If they change as i said their relationship goes up and down. I thought it was very noticeable that she did not go across the street to that infamous night when there was teargas clearing out protesters in front of the white house and then trump held up a bible. The. She has been his biggest supporter and told him for instance that forget all these people that are mocking you. She believed he could win and that was imparted to them. And she urged him to do it. I think that thats fascinating she came from another country and she reads a lot and it drives some people crazy because she finds these critical things and then trump will get upset, but her point is that she wants him to know that she is on his side. In one way shes not elected, she stressed the influence that like what am i supposed to think about this first lady. Is she really like trump gives the answer is complicated, shes like him in some ways and not others. Host shes been with him at the critical moment and in one of the things that surprises people, that history on immigration demand that the such a stand her, her sister, theyve benefited by open immigration to the United States. Guest this is the most important thing to me. You will see a lot about this in the book. She helped her parents become u. S. Citizens and in the same week that the other citizenships ithat is exactly what she had just done meaning she had become a citizen and then helped her parents. Its unbelievable. Hes made it harder for all kinds of immigrants to come to this country. Hes made a lot of language ugly about it, and i think that extended family members and slovenia are most upset about this. Now, shes had very tepid but clear distance on not for an. First of all she said she didnt want the border policies that separated kids at the borders. She allowed her attorney to go on tv after, the attorney that helped her parents to go on tv and to be identified as melanias attorney blasting trump saying those ugly words. They are disappointed that she hasnt said more. Were they following the rules when it came to immigration . Guest it seems to be according to the documents that i have seen the one thing that is complicated and is very suspicious that is a big flag. You feel like why doesnt she lay out the documents. The centerpiece of the campaign and the whole trump build the wall, she doesnt show us the papers. There are the Associated Press did a piece where they got some lectures that looked like when she first came to the country on a visitors visa and she code be here but wasnt supposed to work she had ten jobs. It was in a six week period and then she immediately got her work visa. So in normal times, nobody would even look at this. But when your husband throws somebody out of the country for doing exactly that, then it is fair to talk about. It didnt click they followed the rules of the day. They have money to give great lawyers. Its fair to say they had a leg up sure this is the way that america works. Immigrants come to the. She had a futon for an apartment and now they do well in america i didnt set out and i had no interest in making the case for or against. It is more trying to describe the consequential and little known figure. Let me ask you what kind of response have you gotten since the book came out a from the white house and team trump . Guest the public response how do you view her versus tim hohel could even write about it. And then those that were like him are saying how can you be so, why did you talk about the fact she had exaggerated or resume so im getting haste from both sides. Again i just think my job is to get some documents and videos in actual facts about who this woman is. The white house has come out with a statement no specifics. Is there a question seven months before the publication asking for a fact checks and for another interview and asking to talk to other people, they would just say they wanted to know what i had and i remembered i just wanted to show what they. She likes to guess how much he likes the mystery. Host thank you for the conversation. Thanks for writing this book. This program is available as a podcast. All programs can be viewed on the website on booktv. Org. During a Virtual Event hosted by politics and prose bookstore in washington, d. C. , Time MagazineNational Political correspondent discussed the career of the House Speaker nancy pelosi. Here is a portion of that program. On thing in the articulate thoughts because they are terrified of saying the wrong did go wrong thing they just repeat themselves over and over and will not answer any questions, but shes not going to tell you all the things that shes been thinking about herself. You sort of have to figure her out. And i think that is part of it, too. If the compelling and political speech writers to speak in stories with personal anecdotes and that is in most of the current and public speaking. It was for me to reflect on the role of the communication and procession in politics and thinking about the relationship. How much does that say about the person, i dont want to get deconstructionist but we hear about all this overtime. A lot of the president s defenders of wealthy people get mad but thats what he does. A lot of his critics will say no, what he says matters just as much as what he does. So, i dont think that theres quite a destruction. The other thing i would say is the thing you get to understand her is if the results and what shes going to get out of whatever the interaction is in the interview, whether it is being on a television or giving tha speech at a fundraiser. So shes interested in driving the messag message home as she t making you like her or making herself feel good. How many times do i have to to get the message. You can choose to steer a particular course that this evil, and it will come. Ultimately in a different direction. But