In combat and when the law was finally changed i broke through that barrier and it was not an easy journey it doesnt matter if youre a boy he or girl if you fly well but it was a challenging time so i decided to stick to my own gameplaying Fighter Pilot games and then to chew tobacco but then i share these and i thought if i die tomorrow this is the last day i have on this planet after all the effort ive tried to make a difference, is that how i will be remembered . So i quit. Talking about dipping you are talking about chewing tobacco. I know thats very gross. You have to read the book to understand the context of the whole journey. The a10 is called the warthog built really to go after soviet tanks on the front lines. Designed for Close Air Support so they built a big 30millimeter gun and said bigger how to fly this. At all thats totally true but there is no twoseat models and no simulators whenever for training so the first flight is so low. So when i was cleared for takeoff the very first day i had to overcome my own fears and then i go into the canyons in afghanistan for my most complex mission i had a plan but every thing went wrong it still the same mission of Close Air Support where if you are an american and on the ground in a firefight that is very close proximity we take off to have that firepower overhead. Its very important to deliver that firepower to ensure we save american lives. We avoid friendly fire and then we live to fight another day. Its so survivable. We have a titanium backlog around the cockpit to protect us from taking hits because its meant to be on the front lines there can be holes and still fly back safely. Host you quote a fellow pilot as saying flying was like wrestling while doing long division. On career day. In the middle of the wrestling match. It is physically and mentally demanding at the same time but in afghanistan we would take off a routine combat mission with a map of every single area of afghanistan and often be diverted because troops are under fire somewhere. We have given a call sign and the grid coordinates and say go help. You are doing a lot of calculation, math, trying to figure how to get your weapons to hit the target in coordination with your wing man. One or three people. In some circumstances conflicting with artillery timing and physics. All while the bad guys try to take you out so mentally and physically it is a part of the mission but then you come back from these long flights he would be drenched to be through a pretty tough workout mentally and physically. Host this is a question i have never asked us senator before but it is apropos. How tall are you . Getting my clearance i was 5foot three and a half on a good day i think im shorter over time. Was a little too short. My leg length was okay but my sitting height or my sitting it was okay my total leg length was the issue i couldnt quite meet the standards like you have to be this tall to ride the ride everybody is a little bit different can you see over the dashboard . Can you reach the brakes and the rudder . Can you push hard for letter to get out of a spin. You have to do that can you function in the cockpit . I passed on the test so i was cleared to fly but i kept having bureaucrat thing i could not fly because of an arbitrary number that they came up with. Not many people would go through that to be frustrated to have those obstacles as people experience that right now or have your plan be derailed people relate to that a lot to persevere and never give up keep finding new ways to meet your dreams i was eventually cleared to fly. Cockpits are designed for average height and then . Is that correct . Yes just recently the air force announced finally this year they are doing away with the arbitrary height restrictions and now as individuals they can fly you cant sit in the cockpit if you cannot close the canopy because pulling the ejection handles it could break your back if your legs are too long you could lose your legs so the limitations are there for a reason but some men and a lot of women missed out on the opportunities now they change it all the years later. Did you grow up wanting to go to the air force academy . My dad served in the navy before i was born so i grew up with the values of hard work he came from very humble circumstances started working and then through the g. I. Bill and was driven to make a better life for us and i benefited from that. I lost it when i was 12 it really shocked and disrupted this little girls life in a profound way in between heart attacks he told me to make him proud and then he passed away the next day. The day before we were hanging out together as a family. My mom single mom, five kids, with back to school and back to work as a Public School teacher. I knew education why is the key to my future. Very difficult for me as an adolescent but i also wanted to carry on a legacy and do something meaningful with my life. I didnt want to saddle my mom with that you make decisions when youre 17 most parents can relate to teenagers trying to find their way. And off i went. Host originally applied to be a doctor . I was not qualified to fly. I didnt really want to fly. I didnt know what i was talking about is i had motion sickness. I thought getting a degree to become a doctor was a big pass. So i went off to the academy that just because i was a girl i can do something. I grew up in a family i didnt have any restrictions on me. I thought it was against the law for women to be Fighter Pilots. So i channeled into something positive. Thats exactly what i want to do. And i will prove you wrong. Because women and girls could not do that and almost ten years later i realized in those formative years he conspired to be a doctor to get more ties trying to save other kids it was not my calling and i had to let it go. Host what you remember about your first solo flight . I was at the air force academy. We go through some prescreening like what you do to get your pilots license and Instructor Pilot says you are ready to go you do a practice run that day and then they get out of the airplane and say you are good to go. Dont do anything done or dangerous. [laughter] i remember my heart beating in my mouth dry i cannot believe im going to go fly this airplane by myself and how you can overcome your fear. I wasnt sure i could do it but my instructor believed in me and others had gone before me. So i continued to push past my fear and everyone can relate to having fear almost paralyze you. It doesnt matter if its taking off in a plane or whatever it is that is holding you back. Host senator, one of the top graduates in your class, did that open up all opportunities for you . There were highcaliber people at the academy i was dealing with this height Thing Holding me back i was very focused on Pilot Training and i was getting delayed and derailed i was offered a scholarship to go to harvard. That was an amazing opportunity 1988 and 1990 went to the Kennedy School of government those are the years to Study International security that was an amazing opportunity for me and then to go to Pilot Training but what an amazing educational experience i had to have a summer internship and then later on to get another masters degree what an incredible chance i had as a whippersnapper trying to make a difference in the world and do something unique with my life. The military he gave me these opportunities to command men and women in combat those doors were open because i was working hard and excelling at where i was even a there was no restrictions dont have a chip on your shoulder keep the dream in your heart and you never know when that opportunity might come. One of the routes of your life you describe as 237 to del rio what does that mean . Many of us can have dreams and relate to this right now in 2020 many peoples plans of been derailed because of the pandemic it still didnt change the law it wasnt fair graduating higher i still couldnt be a Fighter Pilot because i was a girl. Flying the t30 seven not a glamorous job but it gave me the opportunity turning pedestrians into pilots putting them in dangerous situations and puking all over you but it is important work that i thought it was a chance for me to keep building my airman ship and excelling and growing in my experience as a pilot and keep the door open that if they changed the law. The lava shes at that point but not the policy. I felt it would happen soon it would be one i would be ready and thats exactly what happened. The door opened i was in the right place at the right time with the right experience. So i look back if i had not been derailed initially i would not have been in this position to have broken the barrier to be the first woman flying in combat. Sometimes you cant see a d tour takes you on your path to your destiny and that was my experience. Host what is the t30 seven . A low range trainer plane. It is no longer flying it was built in the sixties and sidebyside student and Instructor Pilot in the First Six Months of Pilot Training every pilot learned how to fly in the t30 seven. Host how many women in your graduating class at the air force academy . 1000 cadets i was in the ninth class with women i think there was 10 percent at that time so right about 100. Host from your book dare to fly like many young women in a maledominated environment i learned to succeed to be one of the guys. I think a lot of women can relate to this it wasnt a conscious choice. And then even though there is an environment and how we perform a lot of naysayers and to be at the military academy and sometimes you have to change peoples mind one at a time. Thinking that men and women worked to gather it felt like you are on your own and just want to show you are different patriots men and women. To be one of the guys and blend in just do your job and prove that you belong improve you can be a patriot. Host was that a good path . Its a path they took when i was young it cant look back with wisdom in your fifties to the decisions that you make as a teenager. I feel at the time in our environment to allow me to succeed and change peoples mind that women do belong sidebyside serving we pick the best man for the job even if a woman. Thats what we are all about. And then to open up some peoples eyes while focusing on performance how well are you excelling . Thats the most important thing. Several times push back rather strongly in dare to fly including saudi arabia. What was that . And the first deployment. And then i walk by the desk to see a picture of a young enlisted woman in saudi arabia for muslim black gown and headscarf. At first i thought it was a local woman and what one is that it just gripped me and it was wrong in so many levels why we have us servicewomen where muslim garb like that as deployed i did not understand as a young captain so i started to look where the policy comes from and why they do it. Little did i know i couldve just walked by the problem. Dont walk by a problem. Even though that did not apply to me so why are they doing it . Little did i know it was an eight year journey and to see me in the setback of the car and telling me instead of their fellow servicemen and women i couldnt believe it the chain of command and it is a long story of one person standing up and never would have asked for this but i would do it again. It was against our values and those that are serving in their official capacity. It wasnt an easy one. Its not a good career and persevere stand your ground continue to look for ways to make a difference even had a personal cost. And then the ultimate closure for me. That with a pair of sweatpants. So they were making is where onbase whatever the temperature was outside with a Fighter Pilots and with that cultural sensitivity even on a mac and to be irritated by that and ultimately this was my first tough decision. And then to call back to a mentor i didnt want to do it. I was just to show that women belong the last thing i want to do and i share the story and this hit me can it be were put in this position for the second time . Everybody listening and then to make a difference that you put us in a position your the wind to speak out and that was my journey over those eight years. Senator mike salary senator mick sally your theme is faith. I grew up in a family of faith, went to church each wee week, it wasnt personal for me as a young kid. That i later got letters for my dad he was on his knees every night praying to god. And my dad said when i was 12 i was angry at god which is understandable and as a stable middleclass family and then going through that grief and that very difficult experience but in the event in the darkness to reach out by the hand of god in my life to help me to that journey its a raw way in my relationship with god how i have grown over time. And combat and victories and despair and grief that we can all relate to as well. Host other fee one another theme in your book . I have run many marathons. Im and endurance athletes and some ironman triathlete. And then to persevere. And then their very first marathon. So i do share if you come up with a plan so you can cross the finish line if you do the hard work. A lot of it is mental a lot of those challenges are mental. And to put 1 foot in front of the other. Getting to the first water station you dont think how you will feel at mile 25 you will never get going. But i will get to the first water station at mile number one that is doable. Get going and one on run a good pace and stopper water at mile one. If you break them down and come up with a plan to do the training and get to the first water station are there actual athletic endeavors you just dont know where to start. Host after your father died you relate have a coach abused you and while in the air force academy i was raped, yes raped. Yes. Those are not easy words to say or write. After i lost my dad i was very vulnerable and naive kid he was very trusting and looking for other one father figures in my life. So i was betrayed as a teenager in high school it almost crushed me. I sheridan my book many women and men can relate to this. Sexual abuse of young people is something that has impacted so many peoples lives you may not even know theyve been through this. But as i went off to the air force academy on academy one reason was to get away from the perpetrator. I realize you couldnt get away from the pain later and the impact. And other Sexual Assault experiences in the military. These almost crushed me i want to be honest about that. There were some despairing moments with betrayal of the crime committed against me and i was able to by the grace of god find my way out of those alleys 1 foot in front of the other. Find my own healing over time. So that others that this happened to yesterday or decades ago could find their healing. Dont let you let your perpetrator rob you of your help and destiny. They are not thinking of you. Dont let them hold you back. Find your own path to healing as a sign of hope and light. Host finally your path to the u. S. Senate is one of the most unique taken. Correct . It is and continues is the journey i had is very similar to the derailment of ups and downs i first decided to run into all these other things in my life and want to fight for those who dont have a voice but in 2012 coming to freshman orientation and then i had to go home and concede. I lost. Then talk about perseverance and never giving up iran again in 2014. This time 43 day recount and i one by a whopping 167 votes. Whopping landside was my new nickname im the same person who flew the a10 and overcame the adversity we just shared. Through the ups and downs and challenges and adversity were this is the last year of my life thinking about losing my dad what do i do to make a difference as a continuation of my service as a military officer actually. She is interviewed by usa today washington to achieve susan page. After words is a Weekly Program of relevant guest hosts interviewing top nonfictio