Transcripts For CSPAN2 Hearing On Government Agency Oversight Of Federal COVID-19 Response 20240712

Good morning. I want to welcome everybody to this hearing today. Today, our select subcommittee is a hybrid hearing as some members will appear in person and others may appear remotely via webex. Since members are appearing in person, let me first remind everyone that pursuant to the latest guidance from the house attending physician, all individuals attending this and other hearings in person should be wearing face masks. Now, i did not make these rules. Thats the attending physician rules. And after this meeting i will consult with the attending physician and other authorities, and will make a determination as to whether or not we should recognize people in the hearing who do not wear facemasks. I happen to have been born and raised as the 21st of next month, will have spent all 80 of my years in south carolina. So i know a little bit about rules and i know about and mores. So i will consult with them. As of today i will share with the authorities in the attending physician the experiences here today. So let me also make a few reminders about hybrid hearings. For those members appearing in person, you will be able to see members appearing remotely on the two monitors in front of you. On one monitor you will see all the members appearing remotely at once. And what is known in webex as grid view mode. On the other monitor you will see each person speaking during the hearing when they are speaking, including members who are appearing remotely. For those members appearing remotely you can also see each other speaking during the hearing, whether they are in person or remote, as long as you have your webex set to active speaker mode. If you have any questions about this, please Contact Committee staff immediately. Let me also remind everyone of the house procedures that apply to hybrid hearings. So members appearing in person i time is visible in the room directly in front of you a timer for those who are remote you will have a timer that should be visible on your screen when youre in the active speaker, and have a timer. For members appearing remotely, a few other reminders. The house rules require that we see you, so please have your cameras turned on at all times. Not just when you are speaking. Members who are not recognized should remain muted to minimize background noise and feedback. I will recognize members verbally, and members retain the right to seek recognition verbally. In regular order members will be recognized in the seniority for questions. If you are remote and want to be recognized outside of regular order, you may identify that in several ways. You may use the chat function to send a request. You may send an email to the majority staff, or you may unmute your mic to seek recognition. Obviously we did not want people talking over each other so my preference is that members use the chat function or email to facilitate recognition. Committee staff will ensure that i am a mate of the request and will recognition recognize youa moment, and when they told me they are ready to begin the live stream. The committee will come to order. Without objection tears authorized to declare a recess of committee at any time. I now recognize myself for an Opening Statement. Today is, the select subcommittee is welcome gene dodaro, the head of the general accountability office. Gao is an independent, nonpartisan watchdog, and it is essential to Congress Oversight of the executive branch. This oversight may be more important than ever before. More than 120,000 americans have died from the coronavirus pandemic. The most of any country on earth. New infections have been rising for weeks, and two days ago we reached the highest number of new cases on record, more than 37,000 in a single day. It is clear that the administrations attempts to contain this virus have failed thus far. At the same time, these of america are out of work including 1. 5 million who filed new unemployment claims in just the past week. In the cares act which asked a broad bipartisan support, congress directed the gao to monitor and oversee the federal response to the coronavirus pandemic, and the suspending of relief funds, and to report its findings back to congress. Yesterday, gao issued its first and dated report, and have it, i think for all of you have copies of the report. The results are alarming. The report identifies significant problems with transparency and accountability in the federal response. In particular, the Trump Administration is refusing to cooperate with gaos oversight, even though this cooperation is required by law. For example, the Small Business administration has obligated more than 512 billion in taxpayer dollars to Paycheck Protection Program. Yet, gao reports that sba has, and i quote, failed to provide information critical to our review, end of quote. As a result, gao cannot determine whether taxpayer funds are being effectively targeted at struggling Small Businesses or, or instead being diverted by waste, fraud, abuse and mismanagement. Last night, sba notified select subcommittee that it is now offering to provide gao with long dated it had previously withheld. With certain conditions. I am please esb is showing some willingness to obey the law and cooperate with gao, but it is troubling that the administration withheld this information until the eve of a congressional hearing exposing their obstruction. Gaos report also raises serious concerns that the administration is failing to effectively manage the programs and hold recipients of federal funds accountable. For example, gao found sba failed to implement oversight mechanisms that were essential to weed out fraud and abuse in ppp programs. As a result there is a significant risk that some fraudulent or inflated applications were approved. Gao also found that accuracy and reliability issues resulted, quoting, resulted in significant delays in testing nationwide during the critical early weeks of the outbreak, end of quote. Gao also identified Serious Problems with efforts to procure and distribute critical protective equipment and medical supplies. Gao reports that the administration learned about potential shortages even before the pandemic, but failed to act. Gaos report also highlights problems with the delivery of Economic Impact payments authorized by the cares act. These payments were designed to help americans get back on their feet quickly. But according to a recent estimate, the irs between ten and 12 million payments, nearly three months after Congress Passed the cares act. As a result, many vulnerable americans have yet to receive these critical funds. The American People deserve to know how their tax dollars are being spent and whether their government is doing all they can to protect them from the coronavirus pandemic. I am deeply troubled by gaos findings that the administration is seeking to evade accountability by undermining gaos oversight efforts. And make no mistake, the administrations refusal to cooperate with gao is part of a broader effort to undermine, evade, and ignore effective oversight during this pandemic. The administration has removed inspectors general, without basic information from congress, and issued inaccurate legal opinions to try to keep billions of dollars in spending a secret. The American People deserve better. I want to make something clear. The purpose of this oversight is not to cast blame for past failures, but to make improvements to ensure future success. The goals of the select committee are the same as in the goals of the administration, to save american lives and livelihoods. Our message to the administration is this. We want to help you achieve these goals. In this time of national crisis, i sincerely hope that my colleagues on both sides of the aisle as well as members of the Trump Administration will recognize the valley of being transparent the value of being transparent with each other and with the American People. That starts with cooperating with gao as required by law. Im grateful to mr. Dodaro for appearing here today, and to all the dedicated professionals at gao with contributed to this report. These unprecedented times, and gao has risen to the challenge to help us ensure the federal response to the coronavirus pandemic is efficient, effective, equitable, and transparent. Thank thank you, and i will nowd to the Ranking Member for their Opening Statement. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I appreciate you calling this hearing, spatially to have it here in person. This is something that weve been asking for for a long time. Our members feel strongly that just the ability to interact in person in a committee studying that can properly social distance while allowing us to do our business here is much more effective and gives us much more the ability to get the proper oversight that we expect and the people of this country deserve. I want to begin by thanking the gao for producing an initial report on the federal government response to the covid pandemic in such a short time. An analysis of the largest and fastest relief effort in american history, while that relief effort is still being implemented is a huge task. The report has some important insights and recommendations but we should all recognize the limitations of this analysis. We asked and, in fact, we demanded that the federal government build a plane in that flight. Gao report is an attempted assessment before the plane has even landed. Lets start from the beginning. Its beyond doubt that the Chinese Communist party actively engaged in a coverup and suppressed doctors and journalists who attempted to warn the world about a novel deadly virus. Senior chinese leaders new pandemic was ongoing weeks before it was announced. During a a critical time in december and january china withheld evidence of the virus, evidence taken from human to human transmission of the virus. Evidence of the extent of the spread. China refused american and other medical experts from around the world for weeks, during this time china hoarded medical supplies like masks, count another lifesaving ppe. Chinese exports of surgical masks and gloves were stifled by the chinese Commons Party during this time. China knew the danger posed by the virus and while they hid the truth, they used this vital time to stock up on vital medical supplies. Chinese authorities limited domestic flights from wuhan to other chinese cities like beijing and shanghai, chinas government urged International Carriers to maintain the flight schedules, ceding the virus throughout the rest of the world. The World Health Organization said as late as january 23 quote, this is an emergency in china but it is not yet become a Global Health emergency. At this time there is no evidence of human to human transmission outside china, close quote. The w. H. O. Exists to stop pandemics. We are told to trust the experts, while china was holding ppe and sending infected patients around the world, the w. H. O. Corruptly misled the world telling us not to worry. This committee is failing its mission if we dont hold china and the w. H. O. Accountable for these facts, that they withheld from america and the rest of the world that caused tens of thousands of deaths just in this country alone. Sadly, we know will quickly the virus spread in america. The first death was figure 29 and informed much weve lost over 100 20,000 of our family, friends, and neighbors to the house passed the first covertly package on march 4. Five days after the first reported death. Congas passed another bill on march 14 and on march 27, the president signed the cares act. Together these bills represent the largest relief effort in american history. Our great economy was shut down. Overnight millions were at risk of losing their jobs. China has put us behind on testing. Republicans and democrats alike demanded speed. And thank goodness we did. 4. 5 million tp p loans totaling 500 billion in just three months. Leaders of all shapes and sizes including large banks, tina did banks and Credit Unions and small banks participate in this program. More than 5400 lenders have participated today. Mr. Chairman, we should hear testimony from the millions of Small Businesses who were saved by the ppp. Ppp has been a smashing success by kevin the speed we demanded and the overwhelming need in any program this massive there are always mistakes made in lessons to be learned. Gl report finds fdas reliance on applicants Self Certification let the ppp program quote vulnerable to exploitation. Mr. Chairman, spa chose to rely on Self Certification because of the need to especially provide funds to Small Businesses there Congress Demanded that speed. Would anyone happy for sba to take months to design a mistakes free program while millions of Small Businesses and tens of notice of workers lost everything they had in their lives . I appreciate gao redoing the program and making recommendations of how to improve. Each of us should take seriously those recommendations but a partisan attacks from democrats on the subcommittee seem to apply that the Trump Administration should have slowed down the ppp. The cookie goes against everything all voted on. Every democrat and republican who voted for the cares act showed speed over perfection. We didnt have that luxury. Our economy didnt. The millions of families have been saved from this program would have died on the vine waiting for some perfectly run federal program which i would love to see an example of that. The gao says hhs experience court substantial challenges with its initial covid19 response. The the worst pandemic and over0 years hit our shortstop and because chine delight and covered up the danger, yes, i agree hhs was faced with historic challenges. Past administrations and congress by the way did not do an adequate job of keeping the National Stockpile supplies. Then we face chinas hoarding. Look at what america has accomplished. More than 28 million tests for covid19 have been performed in the United States. So many now that some are complaining about all the positive covid responses that we are seeing after they demanded more test it with more test, we have more covid, positive. That was something of what he knew would happen. Most days over conducted over 500,000 tests day and expanding the capacity. Fema has delivered over 25 million swabs to support the testing blueprint as of june 17 fema, hhs and the private sector combined according to the delivery of over 118 billion n95 respirators, six and 31. 8 million surgical 8 million surgical mask come over 16 billion gloves. Fema corrugated shipments totaling a 14 day supply of personal protective equipment to over 15,000 medicaid and medicare certified Nursing Homes which is something we need to investigate further. The shipment, the shipments are to supplement efforts to provide equipment to Nursing Homes. We have accomplished a great amount in a short type your query a long way to go. We need to efforts on therapies, vaccines and cures to move forward at warp speed. Thankfully the Top Administration has launched operation warp speed to find vaccines and therapies. Congress needs to be a partner, not an obstacle to the success of operation warp speed. House democrats actually plan to bring a drug price control bill to the floor next monday. Cbo has said your plan would reduce the creation of lifesaving drugs. The council of economic advisers said that number could be up to 100 or higher lifesaving drugs, not brought to market if the bill you will bring next week is to pass. Theres never a good time to stifle innovation and investment in lifesaving cures but this seems to be an unthinkable time to pursue policies that will slow down the development of a vaccine. Im calling a Speaker Pelosi to pull this bill from further consideration on monday. We do not need to be slowing down the search for a cure. We still need to hold a hearing focused on Holding China accountable and while this committee spent so much time trying to find things that went wrong we should also pilot some of the things we did well like the ppp which has saved thousands of lives and millions of jobs. And we should join together and demand the five governors who issued deadly nursing home orders going against the federal guidelines finally complied the demand we have sent for to return over the data so that we can actually have transparency and accountability for the tens of thousands of seniors who died unnecessarily in Nursing Homes because those governors violated the federal guidelines. I hope we search for the answers and with that i yield back. I thank the gentleman for yielding back. Our witness today is the comptroller general of the United States, mr. Gene dodaro. With a witness please stand so i can swear him in . Will the witness now understand there are others who may be testifying today who would like to be sworn in as well. Director for the manager markets and community investment, and nicole managing director of the healthcare team. I will ask you to step forward. Thank you, appreciate it. Please raise your right hands. [witnesses were sworn in] let the record show that all three witnesses answered in the affirmative. You may be seated. Without objection all of your written statements will be made part of the record. With that, mr. Dodaro, you are now recognized for your testimony. Thank you very much, chairman. Good morning to you, Ranking Member scalise, members of the subcommittee. Im very pleased to be a today to talk about our First Comprehensive assessment of the set of legislation that the congress swiftly passed and the administration has been working hard to implement. We determined that the first two months after the legislation was passed there was 1. 2 trillion of assistance provided in the form of almost 700 billion of direct spending, and over 500 billion in loan guarantees. Now this assistance was accompanied by a lot of dedication and agility by various segments of our society, heroic efforts made by our healthcare workers across the country. There were significant effort put forward by the federal workforce to implement this legislation. State and local governments and others made valuable contributions and continued to do so. With regard to the federal agencies, they gave a high priority, given the urgency of healthcare needs and severe economic downturn to move swiftly to allocate the funds as a point out in our report. And there were tradeoffs that were made, and our reports designed to help them make some midcourse corrections with regard to those tradeoffs. But as a consequence we made Good Progress in disturbing the money but only limited progress in ensuring and meeting the transparency and accountability goals. Now our report provides a very comprehensive assessment across the entire federal government, but this morning my opening comments i will just focus on those areas that i think our initial recommendations for improvement focus on. First is the ppp program. I agree that they made swift allocations standing up a nationwide program and distributing the money, but there were some issues that i think need to be attended to very quickly. And so our recommendation, theres a lot of confusion with the program. It was implemented with a stream of frequent ask questions and guidance, and so theres some confusion that still remains with the program. But all being said, they need an oversight plan to ensure that the funds are safeguarded. Theres a recent indications of fraud in the program. Im pleased to report that the administrator called me last night and agreed that they give us the information that we needed in order to go forward so we are in the process of finalizing arrangements for that. I also offered to help them as they design their oversight and monitoring plans, and she accepted my agreement. On Unemployment Insurance area, states are struggling to implement the program because of inadequate systems can need for additional staffing. However, theres potential problem with overlap between Unemployment Benefits and employees who may have received aid under the Paycheck Protection Program that were not paying people twice. We recommend they give guidance. They agreed they will give guidance. At irs, treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration identified 1. 4 million payments of 1. 4 billion of aid that was provided to deceased. We recommend irs take more measures to get that money back. They have done so. Were also recommend that the Congress Give treasury the authority to have a master file from solstice could administration so they can prevent these payments from being made, not just here but across the range of the federal government activities. We also recommend that the congress required the department of transportation to develop a National Aviation security plan for medical diseases. We recommended this in 2015 so far there is not the plan because of bureaucratic wrangling about who is responsible for developing it. I think Congress Needs to give clear direction in this regard. The vessel in which this virus was spread around the world very quickly came through our transportation system. We will always be behind the curve endlessly have a National Aviation security plan that is coordinated with some International Norms to protect safety in that area. So, mr. Chairman, as i conclude my statement i want to ensure this committee that were going to continue to focus on this and meet our statutory responsibilities to report every two months. We also have about 40 odd is underway now, dozens of others planned for specific areas. We are pleased that you took time to focus on our report and we look forward to working with the congress and the administration to make sure that these programs are effectively and efficiently implemented to the benefit of the American People and our economy. Thank you very much. Thank you very much for your testimony. We wont now go into q a we will now going to q a. Each member will be granted by vendors to ask questions. And let me recognize myself for five minutes. Mr. Dodaro, according to your report, the federal government spent at least 677 ilion dollars in response to this pandemic as of may 31, 2020. With that much money at stake, robust and sustained oversight by gao is essential but you can only do your job if the executive branch cooperates. Now, my question is, why is it so important for the Top Administration to cooperate with the gaos oversight . Theres two fundamental reasons. One, we want to make sure that we fairly represent their views and all the things they consider in carrying out this legislation. Our goal is to always provide a balanced, fair, comprehensive picture. Secondly, we need the information in order to make our assessments. The data are critical to doing analysis and in carrying out our responsibility. So without the data theres a totally incomplete picture of what we have had. I would note that in april right after the legislation was passed, i sent a letter to all the major departments and agencies in the federal government explaining the fact that we were going to be doing realtime auditing and had a report and monthly briefings to the congress and bimonthly reports to the congress that we needed their cooperation. And by and large we got that cooperation across the vast range of federal agencies at the department. Some irs commissioner made himself and his deputies available and other agencies were helpful. We were really only income of the most significant problem in sba and i talked to administrator carranza, secretary mnuchin. When a process of working cadets i think we turned a corner but is essential for us to do our jobs to help congress to its job it when it of access to all the information and all the Agency Officials that are responsible for these programs, mr. Chairman. Iq for that. I know, you mention sba is think the significant problem. Now, the sba is administering 670 billion in the ppp program. Thats one of the largest relief programs in the history of the country. But according to your report, im quoting here, sba to date has failed to provide information critical to our review. I want you to take a minute to tell us the kinds of information that sba withholds and its impact on gaos efforts to prevent waste, fraud, and abuse in the ppp program. Two categories of things. One, the most significant was access to their database as to who received the loans and how much, what the characteristics are. We still dont know what information they collected versus what information the banks and other financial agents have at their offices. We were not able to do an analysis other than what the data was they provided publicly on their website as to aggregate data about different industries, different sizes of the loans. But we dont have specific data yet, which is what they promise to provide now, but we didnt have to do this report, and thats why we said what we did. I elicit support from members of congress, bipartisan basis to talk to sba to encourage them to release the information to us, and those efforts have i believe have paid off. And so were going to get the data but we didnt have it to do this report. Secondly, we didnt have access to the key program people. I recognize they are busy, but people were busy across the government to make time to meet with us here and so while they did make some officials available they were not the ones we really wanted to talk to you. And so know they have agreed to make those officials available to talk to us. So those are the two two categ, mr. Chairman, but the data is essential for us. Otherwise we cant tell the congress, you know, specifically, you know, what type of companies that this assistance and we can carry out any potential risk analysis of what the potential may be for inflated applications or even people submitting false information to the government. There have always been cases reported by the Justice Department and the sba ig of people willfully misrepresenting the misinformation, and so otr pursuing a lot of investigations already. Thank you. I gather from your statement that you feel that information you received last several hours and the names that have been submitted to you, these people are sufficient for you to get the information . If they provide us, we still, as of this morning were were l working out the details so we dont have but we expected at any time. If they give us what they say theyre promising to give us, which is everything in a database, then we will have the sufficient information. I will let this committee know one way or another as soon as we receive the information and assess it. I would hope you would let us know very soon if you do not receive it. I will let you know one way or the other. One way or the other, mr. Chairman. Thank you very much. I yield to the rake member. Thank you, mr. Chairman, and thank you, mr. Dodaro for, to testify about the report as we have seen thing so far. I am encouraged to hear that you are testifying that youre in a negotiation to get the data that you looking for from the administration, is that correct . Thats correct. Those appear to be good faith negotiations . Yes, indeed. I talked to administrator carranza in may encouraging her follow up on my april letter, and they agreed to work to provide they just didnt do it. I think they have been in part overwhelmed, to be fair, you know, but we have our statutory obligations. Congress said it was information quickly, and so we had an obligation by law to provide it. I talked to secretary mnuchin as well. I talked to the Small Business Oversight Committee do you feel secretary mnuchin has been cooperative . Yes. Yes. I know were limited on time you know, the conversations have been good. The one hand last night was the most promising which is where going to look, i appreciate your sharing with us how overwhelmed in agents would be tough to deal with this much relief which we wanted by the way. We wanted to push this out the door as quickly as possible. If were still cant figure up the rules and get agreement on how to properly do this that would be millions of people out of work on top of what we only have an millions of Small Businesses i wouldnt even open. They would be gone. We know that. We do want to make sure we get it right for somebody to suggest that the administration is refusing to cooperate kind of flies in the face of what you are testifying before us today about, that there is cooperation, theres negotiation which would happen in any requests for data that okay, youve got a lot of data, theres some other thing feature konica, you will come to figure out what they should turn over and what wasnt in the agreement but at least thats going on and you feel that is going on in a positive direction. It didnt start out that way. Of course. But it has evolved in a positive direction. Ultimately thats what you want it to go. You want to see progress, he wants to cooperation and youre getting that cooperation. I appreciate that. Thats important testimony. I do want to ask, for example, last year do you know how many loans under the 78 program and speaking about over the last few . I dont know the number. I part 36,000 speedy i know what that given out now is speeders how many have you seen this year just since the pandemic . They had 4. 6 million 4. 2 or 4. 6 speed 4. 6 cents more in line with what ive heard. So theyre done 4. 6 billion this year and thats just in about how many weeks . About eight weeks. They have given up about 4. 6 million loans all of last year, all 52 weeks of last year they gave out about 36,000 loans. Thats not 10 more. Its not. more. In fact, it is over 125 more loans that given out and an eight week. Back in all of last year and thats by the way that is something we should be applauded because we want them to do that. We asked them to do it, to do it you had to move at rapid speed at the net our demand. To criticize him for being so expeditious and saving billions of Small Businesses would go against the very things we as congressman and women voted for. And again. Bipartisan bill in passage of the carriers after that so we asked them to do. I am glad theyre doing it. Eifert estimates of over 90 day of all those being carried out properly. If the fraud and abuse actuallye rooted african glad you said is it correct you testified irs is working to go after that might get theirs in type of fraudulent. Was yes. Id love to see any loan program that have over 99 compliance rate. You go after the folks doing wrong but an eight weeks to give out over 4. 6 million loans and to see it being carried out the way we would all expect it to do is i think something we should be applauding. I can go after folks that are doing it the wrong with it im glad the administration is cooperating and being aggressive in that front here i do want to ask you about testing. This comes up a lot. Weve had people complaining theres not enough testing. The administration has worked at warp speed to work with the fda in fact, giving the fda to move redtape red tape that the normally would take two years to the protesting. They are doing in weeks now. Were getting that testing which everybody knew which show more positive and then your people complaining that theyre more positives after this complaint that was enough testing. If you do more tests you get more positive cases . Thats one potential reason. , another reason final question. Some of us understood have been demanding answers from five countersue went against cms guidelines on Nursing Homes and, unfortunately, those deadly orders led to tens of thousands of people dying who should have in Nursing Homes. 45 governors got it right, republican and democrat. We jump us get the data because those governors are refusing to give us the date if anybody should see. Victims families have been contacting us by the thousand asking for that same data and the governors are refusing to get it. When you work with us to get the data as we should all be able to access that shows what really happened with this disease in Nursing Homes to we could make sure it doesnt happen again and save maybe thousands of more lives . Be happy to work with a gimme. We did a report recently that showed that 82 of Nursing Homes, this is prepandemic, had cited for violations for inspections. About half of the Nursing Homes had cited for violations every year during i think it was 20122017. We would love to work i yield back. I thank the gentleman. The chair recognizes ms. Maloney for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman for calling this important hearing, and i think the comptroller for being here, comptroller general and 40 very excellent report on opportunities to improve the federal response. You go through a lot of the challenges and point them out, and then suggestions. I did want to point out how helpful it is as were going through the coronavirus to have the support, it shows how important gao, the ig are in funny the problems and point to some solutions. I want to hear what your solution is for the 1. 4 billion that was sent out to dead people we may be sending out money again till people dependent on how the coronavirus develops doesnt develop, and what are you doing with the just checking with the Social Security what is at the solution Going Forward that this does not happen again . What happened was, irs initially determined that the deceased people or anybody who filed a return in 2018 or 2019 should be paid. So they knew they were paying people who were deceased. Then it became known publicly, treasury then reevaluated that and stopped it and said no, we shouldnt be doing that because its not, obviously they are not benefiting individuals there. And so they stopped it Going Forward. But in order to stop it they had to give the treasury temporary access to this death master file that includes information on states. Its far more complete than what they had before. For years ive been, have recommendations to the congress to pass legislation to give the fiscal servants of treasury access to this full death masterfile. They will stop those payments because they do a do not pay check. My own mother received a payment. She was, unfortunately passed away in february 2018 and my sister got it half of my mother and right on the checketts said deceased. She sent me a picture of it. Of course she retorted. A lot of of the people did know. Irs only posted on the website if you got one of these, please return it. But what we are suggesting is they have a proactive approach. Actually since our report was issued yesterday a couple of citizens of our emailed us and said they have this checks want to know how to return the. Irs agreed they are going to do it but Congress Needs to pass this legislation. Its a very important because its not only just the irs stimulus payment. It could be payments for agriculture, education or whatever. So i would encourage you to do that. Theres been legislation introduced but its not been put over the goal line get. Thank you. Thank thank you, and i want to , return to the testing and you report states that the first tests that were deployed by the ctc, use some of the strongest language ive seen in any of your reports, including accuracy and reliability issues that resulted in significant delay in testing nationwide during the critical early weeks of the outbreak. Your report also the accuracy of the antibody tests and the viral tests continued even to june. So how did these basically failures impact our ability at the outset of this crisis to determine who had the virus and prevent its spread . They were the setback in terms of quickly moving to get the testing deployed here they relied on its own process to develop the test. There were some quality why did they do that when so many thats historically who had a test and all the sketches had a test and we develop our own and then it didnt work . Thats correct. They just discarded that . They had to because of concerns associated with it. Then they opened up testing other, the private sector and others and fda started doing emergency use authorization saying, really quickly after that but there were not able to get out of the gate very quickly but they have done better since then because they are engaging a broad range of people in helping to develop the test. Some of the test having some problems. Fda is monitoring it. Then withdrawn some emergency use authorizations if there are problems, and so, what it is a significant issue. And in your report you go into the procurement process. We test it and work and try to get it, couldnt get it from other places and the really was a lot of criticism about the procurement testing supplies and the way it was coordinated. And in your view did you find out why they were not coordinating it and working more together . I heard the complaint in the news where states would say were competing against other states for supplies, and everyone was pleading with the government to come in and coordinate it on a National Level and make it available to people. And yet it didnt happen. And actually my state and other states are still asking for federal coordination, that we feel it would work better. Did you find out why they determined it would not follow really the suggestion of fema and others to of a coordinated National Strategy for distribution procurement and everything of the supplies . We are still looking at that issue in more depth, but what weve seen, this is true in the past with plans and exercises, including one of which was done just last fall by administration that there is always lack of clarity on roles and responsibilities in these endeavors. Among federal agencies as well as federal, state and local response. So those things, and would you try to sort them out in the midst of an emergency, its a problem. So we recommend our report, thats one of the evolving Lessons Learned that were going to keep for the congress, there needs to be greater clarity in roles and responsibilities here, and particularly if the fellow kevin wants to rely on the states to do the testing, then they have to figure out how to help them get the supplies because their unique authorities. Which they have begun to do, the defense production act and other things. So theyre making a lot of efforts and headway, that the problem keeps evolving with the new cases, et cetera. Theres a unified command group thats made up of hhs assistant secretary for preparedness and response, fema and cdc. So theyre working together now pick so i think that is encouraging. The gentleladys time has expired. The chair recognizes esther jordan for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. The gao has issued a a report t a branded Government Program has got some problems, a few glitches. Eight firsttime thats happened, is it . No, sir. How many years have you been at gao . Actually today, congressman, is my 47th anniversary at gao. Fortyseven years and we have how many times have you testified . Thank you for your service. How may times have you testified in front of car . Im close in a 200. We have done this a timer to any Oversight Committee. The gentleman from pittsburgh has been in front of the over security many may times. 47 years, i think 12, 1313 years come how many reports have you issued . Thousands. Since ive been comptroller general is probably, and i was number two beforehand, so for 25 years i would say in the last 25 years about 15,000 report. 15,000 reports 15,000 reports, and the federal government has some problems. Shazam it. It should be newsflash, right . 4 trillion the federal government spends and one bill, as you sit in your Opening Statement you said swiftly pass. The government with the business of europe to shut down, the economy will collapse so we spent 2 trillion, we spent in one bill of the democrat says we are shocked they were a few glitches. This is, plus as the Ranking Member said we have the ppp program which state is business from collapsing, help families across this great country and some of the democrats owe, weve got a major problem here. Its a good thing we did the cares act which they all voted for by what as well. We had to. Taking peoples property, livelihoods, telling business they could operate. This shouldnt be a big surprise so lets talk about a few of the things in this report that just came out on page 108 your reference i governor from michigan. According to the governor of michigan who testified before the House Committee of energy and commerce in june 2020 just a few weeks ago the supply states receive from s s when sufficient in the early days of the benefit. This is the governor from michigan, the same, is that you could go and buy dishwasher but you couldnt buy a gallon of paint. Interstate, you may have home on a small home, catholic in northern michigan, you cant even coach her own property. She testified but why did you look at what china was doing . As the Ranking Member mention china hoarding supplies that why did you look at that . We dont have authority to audit other countries nor speedy but it is an issue. I dont dispute the fact its an issue but we just dont have the authority to speedy you could put in your i governor who wouldnt let her own people by a galloping, wouldnt let her own people traveled his own people and you could put her statement in the report which cant talk about equipment and masks and things they need but you cant put in the real problem was china was hoarding it and not letting us get access to it. I cant audit what i dont have authority to speeders lets talk about another important issue. Did you see in this issue guidance on march 13 on Nursing Homes . Yes. Yes, they did. Didnt make it Nursing Homes except covid participation . If i could bring her up. Whoever you want. Thank you. Yes, the issue guidance about taking, testing positive patient. Didnt mandate they take the they said there were guides if they were heres what you should do, right . Correct. Positive patients. You cant test people if you dont know do you know how many days the governor of new york did that . 46 days. Contrast that with what the governor of florida did. The governor of florida said you cannot take someone, cant let them into a nursing home unless they have two negative tests but you didnt cover that. And the guidance is, the idea that are 2 trillion bill, the ppp program had a few glitches, everyone understands that the we were trying to get the money out the door as fast as possible but the study that would matter, the study are doing. When you hope to have that done . Later this fall, earlier this winter. We need it sooner than that. 46 days, this was the works. The governor is putting covid19 positive patients where most assessable people were. We need to study much sooner than that. We knew this before he gave it to us. That is why we need to know. They didnt follow the cms guidelines, has their own guidance and i think caused tremendous harm and death to countless families and countless people. I hope it comes before us soon. We work to move as fast as we can and look at the ppe provided to staff. That is important as well. We have a body of work on this issue to look at all the factors that have led to the number of cases. We need that study and we need hearings on that study asap. The gentlemans time has expired. Im sure the gentleman from new yorks decision caused those nursing come deaths in texas. I yield 5 minutes to miss waters. Thank you, mister cliburn. I am really appreciative for the opportunity to have this information before us today that identifies what has happened with our tip to respond to this pandemic, facilities that have been created by the feds and the ppp program, the best known of all the responses we are attempting to do. I am of course concerned, the sba and treasury failed to implement, those are going to eligible recipients and the report that basically teaches us that because of the number, the speed with which they were processed, the limited safeguard, there is significant risk of inflated applications were approved and it was in a short period of time, record amounts of money. I want to ask you if you have heard of legislation that is entitled the paycheck guarantee act. Now. One of the members of the house is introduced a bill, the essence of that legislation is this. Instead of trying to organize all the different facilities etc. Etc. We should basically pay people what they would be earning on their job, 90, 000, let them pay their rent and let them pay their bills, in the way they would normally do it. The Small Businesses what do you think of that idea. I provide a record for the hearing, it is going direct to individuals through intermediaries and executed to ensure they have accurate information. I will be happy to think more about it and give you any thoughts i have. Let me refer to several european countries, they took a look at the experience they have their and let us know what you think about it. Will do. We will do that. By now we know what happened with ppp. The banks executed the program for us essentially and many of them or some of them took care of their clients first. They set up a portal. I talk with a couple ceos and they admitted what they had done. Are you aware of that . We wont be able to get that detail until we get the data from but you know the banks, some of them, i am not saying all of them. Some of the banks those turn out to be the ones who got the largest amounts of loans. Tell me, how did it happen that these hotels and restaurants were able to identify each of their installations, under 500 people that they could get a loan for all of you. How did that happen . That was changed in the legislation at the last minute to allow them to do that. Part of the original legislation. My understanding, if im wrong, provide a correction into the record but that allowed that industry, 500 people, less employees per location. Did the sba sign up on that . Did sba sign off on that . The administration signed the bill. Do you think that undermined what ppp was about. What it did and the legislation, i was assuming it was part of congressional intent. Small businesses legislation defined what businesses are eligible or not. That decision was under legislation. Do you think the application for Small Businesses was too cumbersome . We are looking at that issue, there has been some concern about that as well as the application for loan forgiveness. We will be looking at that issue as well. In many respects they relied on Self Certification so it shouldnt have been that big of a problem but it could have been. We just havent minimal to do the detail work necessary to do this. We want to go out and talk to Small Businesses who receive loans but we dont have that information and this thank you. The gentlewomans time has expired, the chair recognizes mister leukemeyer. Thank you for your years of service, congratulations on the anniversary of service to our country. I want to follow up on the comments made with regard to the ppp program. Part of this comes through my subcommittee we worked with on these programs. The sba got more money out the door than they normally do in 14 years. It is significant they were able to do that. The rate i saw was roughly 280 million out of 350 billion authorized, 10, 0 10,000s of one i havent looked at the air factors. If it is accurate it is a good record. That is the number that came out of the median, the treasury acknowledged they had to claw back from businesses that should not of gotten ppp, but that is a good record getting out of 14 days with an error rate of 10,000. Similarly the issue with regards to stimulus checks going to people who shouldnt get them. You talked about Social Securitys master file, something you recommended for a number of years that we have never done, Trump Administration gave treasury access to this and congress has not done that. I talked to secretary mnuchin about this. This could have it allowed us to happen in previous years. Your charge here is the pandemic effects on pandemic health. We had a report on one of the local political magazines, 65,000 people die as a result per month as a result of lack of focus on healthcare needs due to suicides, opioid abuse and heart conditions that are at rest, new york city didnt do 80 of the brain surgery. Did your report look at this part of the healthcare picture because that is 50 more people dying because of lack of treatment because of attention on covid19 . We are going to look at that. We are focused on our report, talk about our healthcare expert, we have been trying to focus on the numbers of deaths over and above what is expected over appear go of time. That is one of the factors we are looking at but this issue about the other factors, a very important issue. One more question. The type of indicator we are developing in terms of the impact on Public Health, the elected procedures, people when they hear elective think it is not essential. These are important procedures for people in terms of Preventative Care so we will examine how quickly hospitals provide those. 60,000 cancer treatments, they are not being diagnosed on the cancer side. With regards to there seems to be an increase in the number of cases detected. We are testing more so you would anticipate more tests. Have you looked at the percentage of hospitalizations as a result of that and a number of deaths as a result of that. If the virus had the same potency you would have the same number of hospitalizations, same number of deaths but anecdotally that has not happened. Have you looked at that . We are tracking that information. It is important in terms of watching the number of cases but hospitalizations and the percentage positive, those are indications in terms of the spread. One of the things we pointed out is we need better data in terms of hospitalizations, the number of icu beds that are filled, that is something we are continuing to track. We had three weeks ago university of Pittsburgh Medical Center which according to somebody told me yesterday is where they do the research and helped develop polio vaccine. These are the experts of the experts. They said the virus is losing its potency, mutating to a lesser strain which if they are having more positives but less hospitalizations and less depth would seem to indicate this could be the case. This is an important point that needs to be made with regards to the media is only telling you the cases are increasing but doesnt tell you the deaths continue to go down and hospitalizations go down as well as most hospitals still have capacity to take care of that. All those data points are important. Hospitalizations and deaths tends to lag and it would be important to track this in the next couple weeks to see how that data changes. The chair recognizes miss velasquez for five minutes. I think you i thank you. From the beginning ive been calling for the administration to provide congress and the gao detail data regarding the Paycheck Protection Program. It is our job to be good stewards of taxpayer dollars and ensure our programs are working as intended. In my call with fda administrator on wednesday she indicated that congress and gao will be receiving more data today. This is a good step but we must work to guarantee gao interview and collect Additional Data to conduct its oversight responsibility. This brings me to my first question, gene dodaro. Fda indicated to me they contacted gao about transferring full access to all ppp loan data. Have you responded to sda and gao trapped in the system to securely receive that data . We have responded to them. We are in discussions with them about the details on how it will be done and we have the ability to secure the data. We deal with healthcare data, classified information of all stripes. In the same vein has fda indicated the time and date that they will provide access so you can conduct interviews . There has been one date offered so far but im not sure. Mister chairman, to compare the loans made by sda on 2015, do what they have done today, it is ridiculous. They the loan program, the flagship loan Lending Program of sda. Beyond that they cannot send any money plus the cuts that the agency has suffered under this administration. Budgets have consequences. They shut it down. As a result of the money that has been cut. The first sda ig report noted that implementation of the ppp did not align with the cares act objective of prioritizing underserved, gao has been able to control any conclusion as to what implementation failures led to so many minority owned businesses from being shut out of the ppp program during the rollout. We will be looking at that issue but until we get the information we are not in a position to determine that. From my understanding did not collect demographic information and they are trying to collect it as far as loan forgiveness application but it is voluntary. I dont know how many people are going to submit the information but we are going to try to look at that. That is one of our key objectives. You experience it challenges like clashes through the portal forcing fda to shutdown the site. Gao in future reports on it issues that may have refocused, some businesses not being able to access loans while other businesses may have received more than one loan. We will look at that issue. Do you think it is important for the Small Business committee to have access to the raw data so that if we need to make changes or the administration comes back to us and say we need to withdraw more money and more relief, how could we affect if the program is working as intended by congress if we dont have access to that information. How many times requested the administrative to come before the committee and secretary mnuchin . It is not right and we expect them to come forward, she committed to me on wednesday she would be coming through the committee when she asked what steps or what intentions you have in the Committee Going forward regarding the program, my answer is i dont have any data, no information to be able to make any responsible decision at this point so i yield back. The chair recognizes mister green for five minutes. Understanding a lot about the spike in new coronavirus cases. As with all the other Public Health decisions we have to make sure we take a holistic look at the data to ensure we have the truth and not some preferred narrative. It is alarming, is the alarming spike in cases in part of this country due to greatly increased spread or could there be another factor . Lets be honest, the United States is testing people for the coronavirus at unprecedented rates and more people are willing to go see their doctor as the country reopens so of course we will see an increase in cases. Some Public Health experts estimated we have ten times the number of coronavirus is then being accounted for in testing, others like doctor francis collins, director of the National Institute of health observed in the past, quote, the number of people who havent yet turned up in the Healthcare System but who already are infected is probably 100 times the number of cases you know about. Even cnn, i am referencing cnn, reported just this week that a new Study Suggests 80 of cases were never reported in the month of march because we werent testing as broadly as we are now, we have known since the beginning there were likely far more cases overall than just the confirmed cases and as we have ramped up testing we see that to be the case. Doctor Donald Bailey of the university of pennsylvania reinforced this point, he urged us, quote, to change our mindset and focus not exclusively on the number of cases but on the severity of the illness, continuing, pointing out, quote, fewer people are being admitted and when they are, they tend to be much less sick than at the beginning or the feick peak phase of the pandemic. We have to look at the hospitalization rates and context. The cdc reports, quote, for 65 years, for people 65 years and older, cumulative covid19 hospitalization rates are in range of cumulative influence the hospitalization rates observed at comparable time points during recent influences, that is good news. While we are clearly not out of the woods, we need to look at the data in context. Asserting that the president has failed to contain the virus because the cases are going up is either blindly uninformed or blatantly malicious. The goal was to flatten the curve, nonstop every person from getting the virus, that is physically impossible, i am a physician, trust me. Any honest broker will realize cases are going through the roof because we are testing through the roof, we have to have more tests, or now that we are, the president has failed us because we are testing more and there are more positives. Most people will see the ridiculous hypocrisy in that was the media continue their narrative marching in lockstep with my democrat colleagues and they ignore the context and the facts. As i came in today i thought and when running on the sidewalk. There was no one within 100 yards of the guy yet he was wearing a mask while running, this speaks to the irrational fears this dishonest representation by the media has caused. The media also ignores the fact that reopening society will save lives in other ways, cancer screenings deemed nonessential but in reality are very essential. Social isolation which has devastating healthcare consequences can come to a end if we open up and americans can get back to work, feed their families, pay their rent and save for the kids college. Other data is also suspicious. Colorados government is revised deaths due to covid19 down by 12 because he found the state Health Department was killed even automobile accidents from trauma deaths as covid19 if the patient have a virus. That is absurd, 12 . My question to you is have you looked into how states are counting their covid19 death and are there other states that will be revising their numbers down 12 . One of the findings in a report is the testing data cdc has been reporting is inconsistent and not complete. Not all the test data has been reported as state count Different Things differently, and we have good reliable data. On june 4th cdc finally threw secretary of hhs in the cares act, of all labs in the country. Hopefully it is not 12 across the country being revised down or maybe hopefully it is and we will get an accurate contextual picture. Manipulating data for the progressive narrative is damaging to this country in this committee. Ignoring science is damaging to our country. Couldnt agree more. I try to practice evidencebased medicine. You have asked mister Ranking Member that we have meetings in person, we accommodated you. I would love for us to abide by the attending physicians recommendations. Point of order, mister chairman. Cdc has said 6foot social distancing, you dont need a mask. We are 6 feet apart, we dont need a mass, when i came in today i put my mascot because i walked past people would now that im in a seat i dont need a mask. You are a scientist. Yes, sir. Your physician. Clinician. Anyone walking past you and you dont have on a mask, you wear the mask to protect them. Yes, sir. If someone comes by the government have a mask on i will put mine on, absolutely. I just want i want to yield to you but i want to say this. If you wish if you wish to continue having these meetings in person you are going to have to adhere to the attending physician i will not have the meetings in person. Thank you, mister chair. Point of order. I would like to raise the question of if we are sitting here without a mask and we are speaking, is it possible that we could have even shinzo are going on the desk, on the microphone, around us and if someone comes behind us who has not worn a mask and we are basically emitting on the table, on the desk, have we been told by the scientists that the virus remains on the surface, depending whether it is would or steel etc. And if you contact that service and you have emitted, there has been emailed, that you could become infected . I am going to yield to one of my favorite scientists. Science and common sense, you should not put covid19 causative patients in Nursing Homes. That is the study we need. I have nothing over the government of new york. I will exert what control i do have. You are recognized for five minutes. Our greatest, best hope is through development of safe and effective vaccines and therapeutics, great scientific products, many products are entering advanced Clinical Trials but developing, Manufacturing Industry leading vaccines and therapeutics are challenging and complicated tasks especially in a compressed timeframe and with an often International Supply chain. This requires not only great scientific efforts but good technical project management, this is not something weve seen in the federal response to the crisis as stated in the gao report. Multiple federal agencies taking actions to develop vaccines and therapeutics, questions remain about their timing and distribution. This should not be used as a partisan hatchet. Colleagues on both sides on this committee, theres great appetite for congress and the American People to get the best possible information on the status of likely timescales, and i had conversations with scientists and executives involve that theres a real desire to present the full complexity a reference not in the form of soundbites and hearings in congress but actually detailed briefings on technical uncertainties of what they accomplish in the scheduled uncertainties. Not only to every american but every elected official. A city mayor cannot make plans if they dont know if therapeutic will be available this month or not for years. Getting the best scientific information on when these will happen from a neutral third party is something the gao is providing us. So the gao has expertise in technical project management. Could you say what capabilities the gao has today to provide oversight of therapeutic development. Does that address these efforts . Weve been building our capacities in science and technology areas. Phd in microbiology that has experienced vaccine therapies on staff within a week as part of our effort supported by congress, past efforts thinking there are vaccines and distribute them. We have great capabilities, we have standing arrangements for the National Academy of sciences, completed a joint study with the National Institute of medicine on use of Artificial Intelligence and drug development. I have people on my Advisory Committee that made themselves successful including harvey fienberg who used to be the president of the institute of medicine. We have inhouse capabilities to do this and standing arrangements to get it done. In my many years in science i have been on the receiving end of gao reporting on projects, it was often painful at the time, made the projects better. Having the gao ask tough questions there might be good answers for, what if this happened . Do you have a contingency plan . What are your plans if the virus mutates . Do you deploy a therapeutic and the virus mutates around . What is your backup plan . Asking those questions will often make the project stronger and give congress and the American People better information on the most important question we are facing as a world right now. We are planning to do that. I look forward to working with you. I have good conversations on both sides of the aisle. Im standing up and getting an agreement between you, hhs to really get the kind of information like access to the databases so that you can get the answers but we need so if you have access to things like details of a contractual arrangement, the capacity to manufacture different vaccines and therapeutics and reports in a timely manner in almost realtime this is one of the most valuable things this select committee could end up doing. I agree. We will make arrangements to do that. We have done that on major weapons systems, happy to do that. I agree it is essential to attack this issue thoroughly and provide proper safeguards, vaccines and other therapeutics. A unique situation. I yield back. Recognize Mister Baskin for five minutes. Thank you. I want to start with a few facts. 125,415 deaths in the United States from covid19. More than 2. 4 million cases of infection among our people. Fact, hospitalizations in texas are up 215 since memorial day. Fact, florida just reported 10,000 new Coronavirus Infections in two days. Arizona as of yesterday had 60,000 cases, 1467 defendant fiction continues to spiral out of control. Mister comptroller general, the gao report raises questions about the irss handling of the impact statements, stimulus checks to get people through this nightmare. According to a report, 160 million payment so far, the agency has faced challenges and delays to our most Vulnerable People including hardtoreach populations like, quote, individuals without bank accounts, the homeless, people with limited or no internet access, people with limited english proficiency. I these populations especially vulnerable during a pandemic recession and in need of this federal support . Absolutely. Should this be a top priority for the irs to reach these populations . Yes. We will be looking at their efforts to do so. I know they started some on Interagency Council on homelessness and men of valor to help individuals coming out of prison. We will be looking at it to see if we have any suggestions. A report says irs faces difficulties, people who did not file tax returns including recipients with low adjustment, i heard from a number of these people, they have incomes below 12,000 here, including one estimate, as many as 12 million nonfilers who might be at risk of the Economic Impact statement that they need more desperately than the rest of the population. What should the treasury and irs be doing now to reach 12 million american nonfilers . They need to explore different data sources to identify these individuals. That is what we need to look at and make recommendations. When will that happen . My office and my colleagues offices are besieged with people who need this money. We are working on it. I hope to have those recommendations by our next bimonthly report. Im working through this pandemic and i hope you are too. We were not able to reduce their reporting nine days, 24 seven. Gao reported 1. 4 billion americans who died and i heard from honest constituents, this check for my wife or my husband is no longer with us. Irs is aware this was happening in march but what is up with that . How did that happen . Irss original determination was the law required them to send a check to everybody who filed the return in 201819. They figured it would include those people. They did it with foresight. That is what they were supposed to do. Let me pause, that seems to contradict common sense. Everyone who filed taxes, you thought it would go to people who had died, who had filed taxes. What is the law . Some people are saying should we cash this check . What is the correct we believe treasuries interpretation after that was the intent was to help people affected by the situation including people who were deceased, they stopped at that time after irs made the first three payments. We believe the correct interpretation is they should not have been sent in our recommendation is to get as much of the money back as possible. They changed the policy of sending checks to people who have died. That is correct. They stopped after the first three rounds. Thank you, i yield back, mister chairman. Thank you. The chair recognizes mister kim for five minutes. Thank you, mister chairman. I want to begin with something that came up earlier in the hearing, talking cdc guidance when it comes to wearing a mask and social distancing. I went to the cdc website and wants to confirm it says cover your mouth and nose with cloth, face cover when around others and continue to keep six feet between yourself and others. It is not saying it is one or the other. It is recommending both social distancing and using a mask. Moving forward, i am very concerned about the Trump Administrations values when it comes to providing personal protective and medical supplies our committees need to keep safe. According to the gao report or hhs, exercise august 2019 that determined, quote, domestic manufacturing capacity would be unable to meet demand for personal protective equip and other supplies in the event of a global influenza pandemic. This was months before the coronavirus pandemic but the Trump Administration failed to act on these findings. If one of the gaos, the need for critical supplies to respond quickly, the quantity contained in the strategic National Stockpile. I want to ask, the National Stockpile has been short of the critical supplies needed during this pandemic . That has been acknowledged, trying to fix it now and they try to revamp the stockpile Going Forward. The exercise you talk about, the crimson contagion, mirrored what is happening this particular covid19 situation. What they told us is they didnt have enough time to react to the findings but briefed members of the congress, trying to revamp the National Stockpile but the masks left over from h1 n one werent effective anymore. They had to be replaced or were provided with a caveat. What steps could have been taken or should have been taken to prepare for this to replenish that stockpile . You raise this before prior administrations, there werent enough ventilators in urban hospitals around the country. We raised these issues over time. The hardest part of my job is getting people to act before there was a crisis, has great difficulty preparing ahead. It is not unique to any administration. This is a problem i have seen throughout my career in government. They had the information, to act on it they didnt. Money wasnt appropriated. They didnt allocate. We are looking more at that, but steps could have been taken previously. Characterized earlier in this hearing the problems we are facing with government response, would you categorize the problems in terms of the supply of ppe is a few glitches . I wouldnt categorize it that way. On the supply side the coordination side, reports of federal acquisition and distribution effort to supplement strategic National Stockpile, survived like coordination resulting in challenges obtaining supplies. How did that lack of coordination heard the efforts obtained critical supplies. I will ask to elaborate early on. And shifted to fema and the task force, the White House Task force came in and set of the unified command. With you categorize that is a few glitches . You categorize the problems when it comes to coordination is a few glitches to states and hospitals . Know. When it comes to the last part, when you said you requested information on strategic prior to the pandemic of the type and amount of supplies states requested as well is what hhs and fema distributed from strategic National Stockpile to the states, a request. You did not have that information as of june 12th. The basic information about what is necessary to assess what the stockpile is meant to do. Have you received that information . When did you make that request . I dont have a specific date but it was a request we made fairly early on but have you been given a reason you have not received this information . We have not. Do you know what is it stockpile . I do not. The question is who pays for our stockpile . Federal government provides appropriations and is the comptroller general mentioned the appropriations have varied over a number of years in terms of what was provided to maintain adequate supplies in the stockpile. It comes from the government, the American People, the American People stockpile land they deserve to know what has been done to keep them safe. The American People are still under threat from the virus, we face rising cases across the country, the threat of a second wave later this year, the American People deserve to know if we are ready in your testimony in the report today makes me concerned we are not ready. Back to you. I think the gentleman. Questions from all our members, yield to the Ranking Member about a closing statement you would like to make. Thank you for holding this hearing in this Committee Room and thank you for your report, the fact that you have been working with the Trump Administration for the information you need to compile his report to continue providing proper oversight and im glad in your testimony made clear you are getting that cooperation from the Trump Administration, there are other issues you will continue to work through with Small Business administration, they have been overwhelmed. Last year they issued 36,000 loans in eight short weeks, the issued 4 and a half million loans through the same program, over 125 increase at a time you had to move expeditiously, time is of the essence, to save millions of Small Businesses, millions of jobs, to pay their mortgage, get back to work, have their careers before them as we work through this pandemic. It has been an unprecedented in terms of the response, the quickness we have seen in getting testing brought to the market, tests that would have taken two years for the fda to approve have been approved instead in weeks. Following safety guidelines but removing red tape. I applaud the Trump Administration for commenting operation warp speed to push more results for families, to get more testing, to get more cures, therapies, we are seeing revolutionary changes, remdesafir is proving effective for many people, that would not have happened without the Trump Administration moving red tape out of the way so we can save lives, continuing to search for a vaccine at rapid speed we are seeing in the private sector. We need to continue to push for those kinds of reforms and that kind of expeditious response. When you move expeditiously there can be mistakes made. It is good for us to look at what those mistakes are and correct them. I am glad you testified that you are seeing agencies like the irs correct things along the way that they found but we also have seen based on the findings you presented so far the ppp program has more than a 90 success rate. That is revolutionary for a program that has given loans to 4 and a half million Small Businesses over 500 billion taxpayer dollars that have been used properly as we join together to say lets help the Small Businesses quickly. 99 effective rate. Lets find the folks who abused it. Lets get the money back and im glad the administration is working, suggested a program that is over 99 success rate is a failure or shouldnt have happened is ludicrous, millions of families would be out of work, Small Businesses that would be closed even with the unemployment numbers we are seeing each we, those numbers are dropping because they are starting to open again and we look back to the science and starter green talked about. We hope nobody gets coronavirus, in real world we know it is still out there so the question is do we shut everything down and wreck our economy, rick the livelihoods, there are thousands of people dying because they are stayathome, not going to their doctor, getting checkups and cancer treatments and colonoscopies and mammograms and immunizations. Children do not die because theyre getting immunized. There is a cost to keeping people at home as well. We look at all of that. We talked in this committee about the nursing home crisis that happened. Every state experienced nursing home deaths but not all state experienced it at the same level. Let the data we got so far. We are trying to get more data because some of the state are hiding the data but what we know if you look at the 5 states that violated cms guidelines, went against the science, tens of thousands of people died that shouldnt have died. We hope you do that quickly as well. We need to stop it from happening. We know this is killing people forcing Nursing Homes to keep they cant isolate them, kill tens of thousands of people and probably a lot more. The chair brought up the state of texas which had 700 fewer nursing home deaths per capita than the state of new york, every state had nursing home deaths but not all state experienced the same thing. The state of florida had 500 fewer nursing home deaths per capita than the state of new york. We ought to be looking at where it is working well, where is working poorly, stop it from working poorly and say why dont you follow the guidelines . I would love to have 0 nursing home deaths but 700 fewer in one state than another. We should be going why are they doing it right or not and finally, economy was closed down, and the single state in the nation his Hospital System is overwhelmed, weve seen spikes, it is not a single state that has their Hospital System overwhelmed. That was the barometer for closing the economy down. Again, to address the people that are dying because things are closed down, that has to be understood as well. I appreciate the report, i look forward to future reports, i hope they comply with the letter they sent and i will get you a copy, specific things we have asked for that they are recording, just not sharing with the public. We need to know more about what happened in those states that didnt follow the federal guidelines in the results was thousands of people died that shouldnt have. We appreciate joining with us to get the facts and uncover the scandal and with that i yield back. I think the gentleman. Let me close by thanking gene dodaro, miss brown, miss thomas for being here today, we appreciate all the work you do. To hold the government accountable, especially during this terrible pandemic. Todays hearing has made clear there are tangible steps the federal government can take now to increase transparency, demand accountability from those receiving federal funds and to ensure the tax dollars are used to help the American People and not driver did to waste, fraud, and abuse. I want to thank the Ranking Member for calling attention to what happened last month and the month before in new york. We would like to know what happened last week in south carolina, my home state and georgia, florida, texas, oklahoma, all those states are spiking within the last week. I am interested in last week in what we can expect last week as opposed to our we spend all our time trying to figure out where the virus came from. We spent time figuring out where the virus is going next so as to be prepared for it. We talked a little bit today, i think the gentleman from illinois for raising the issue of vaccines. I am old enough to remember the last time the country wrestled with vaccines. I was around. I was a school kid when we had the polio vaccines. They came up with a great vaccine. Required a shot, a little drop of serum on a lump of sugar. According to all the science it was effective. I happen to remember which communities got some, which god save it. I grew up in the communities that got the less preferred and the least effective. There are 19 countries in search of a vaccine. That is what i want to see the committee focus on. What vaccine has come forward, the effectiveness of the vaccine and where they are allocated. Not just the efficiency of the work but how effective it is going to be and how equitable it will be to distribute it. I grew up a victim of that which is not equitable. I am not going to reside over the process to revisit that or continue it. All the way in the past i am going to be concerned about the future and thinking about the future. Let me just read for our benefit, this is a document from the attending physician. Im going to read it. The house of representatives meeting this in a limited, enclosed space such as a Committee Hearing room for greater then 15 minutes face coverings are required. In alls. That is the attending physician. We will not have a meeting in a confined space for more than 15 minutes if we are not going to abide by this. I will stay in the safety of my home like i will ask all of you to do. I grew up believing that the first sign of a good education is good manners. I think it is good manners to look out for your fellow i see all the staff wearing masks. I dont know what this is. I will be glad to yield. I think the gentleman for yielding. As doctor green pointed out there are guidelines for how to properly social distance and we are following those. And again i understand doctors might look at things differently and given extra precaution but the precautions that have been out there are clearly being followed and doctor green pointed that out. None of us would want to put anybody else in harms way which is why the house has been having house vote on the house for safely, properly with social distancing, the necessary supplies to make sure we wipe down spaces, not here but on the house floor, working in similar areas, as one person moves out they wipe down the area and another person follows those guidelines just like we do here. I yield back. Mister chairman. I yield, go ahead, after you, please. The vast majority of the doctors who do not think this is a hoax and do not think this is invented and you dont think its political and theres one thing we can do, we can put our masks on and we can keep our distance. And i dont understand why my friends in the minority who i know are sincerely motivated people would lambaste the majority for trying to keep the continuity of government going with committee meetings, online with remote or through proxy voting. Everybody needs to be here, and then show up and not wear masks and put terror and fear in your colleagues and perhaps your staff. Ms. Waters lost her sister to this disease. We have lots of colleagues who have gotten covid19. Weve lost more than one at 25,000 of our countrymen and women. Theres no other country in the world in which wearing a mask has become a political or ideological statement. Its a Public Health measure. We have a will which says you have to wear a jacket on the floor of the house so they know people to use her friend mr. Jordan but never wearing a jacket. I dont care about his not wearing a jacket. Thats a fashion statement that when he doesnt wear a mask and interacts with other people in the Legislative Assembly it is dangerous. That is a Public Health menace. So can we all agree that we will abide by the chairman suggestion and the capital positions strict recommendation and lets go forward and lets try to meet together as much as possible as opposed to driving us away from the capital. Couldnt ask my friend in reference to mr. June i think used the term public menace. I hope you were not referring to him. He walked out of her with a mask on. He walked within one foot of our friend mr. Green. I saw it happen. It happens all the time. We might think were in these sixfoot bubbles but were not at us it happen on the floor on both sides of the i helped you start laying around with people who are we are social beings and people begin to interact. Did you see what happened in the Pennsylvania Legislature where one of the legislators came down with it, told his party but didnt tell the other party. Greater absolute panic and more division. Why are we the only country on earth where this is now a matter of political partisan debate instead of just Public Health order . Why dont we just follow what Public Health authorities are telling us to do . The chair recognizes mr. Green. Mr. Chairman, let me say before i cite this study that just came out june 27, that if you put the gaveled out and say we want to wear masks or were going to require, i will wear my mask but i do want to inform the committee, the lancet published on june 27 a metaanalysis where they look at all these other studies and they compile the data and draw conclusions with hopefully more confidence because they are looking at multiple studies. They looked at 172 studies across 16 countries on six continents. They found a one meter distance increased it decreased your risk with moderate certainty. When they do these metaanalysis they say hi certainty, the data is convincing enough to say that theres high certainty that the conclusion is accurate. There is moderate certainty and then theres low certainty. On the mask issue it was low certainty. That it makes a difference. The new england journal of medi cine one of the most respected journals in the nation had article several weeks ago that said outside the health care setting, the masks dont work. It was referenced earlier about fomite, but yet documents are being passed around in here all the time. Are we sterilizing each document before we hand it off to one another . I havent seen that. This mass that was sitting outside is there for anyone who could go to the bathroom and come in a poll of messed out and touch of the masks in the stack, and then the next person comes along and flex the mask. We are not doing surgical sterilization here, and they just want we have to be consistent. If you say im what you were a mask, i will wear a mask. You are the chairman of my committee but it want us to make decisions based on sound data and information. Thank you, sir. Will yield for a question . Yes, sir, i will. Are you arguing that we should not meet in person . No, sir, not at all. Thats the argument youre making to me. Because theres no certainty. The mask may not work but we know how the disease is transmitted. So the mask has a low probability of working maybe we ought not to be beating a person. If youre asking my clinical opinion, sir. Yes. My opinion is that nations who are in high risk categories, anyway are 65 years or older. Thats me. Has a comorbidity should wear a mask. If you dont, im telling people in tennessee its not required. Mr. Chairman, can ask about that courts as i understand it, the mask is not to protect me. It gives me a little protection but it is to prevent other people in the event that im infected. The majority of infections i understand are a people or a symptomatically presented medic. So you dont know whether youve got it. We as members of congress who didnt realize they had it and they were fraternizing with everybody else and any less would do that if it were the rule. So why is this so complicated . Theres one thing we can do to try to protect other people which is put on the mask. It doesnt cost anything. Why would we not do that . Why is it some kind of macho thing if i dont wear a mask i am tough . If you want to be tough go spend a day with the nurses and the doctors in the hospital and all of them come out and say everybody where your mask. Listen to them. If you dont want to spend the day with a lace listen to them. All of the First Responders parse saying say this, where your mask. I can set many other professional sourcing just the opposite. Thats the challenge were in right now. They are saying dont wear a mask . Im not wearing a mask, no. Will you send us the medical device people not wear masks . I have not seen i have can share shares the medical literature with you. I know what theyre putting up. Harvard University Johns hopkins come all the studies i have seen. Okay. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Without objection, all members will have five legislative days within which to submit additional written questions for the witnesses which will be forwarded to the witnesses for their response. I asked our witnesses to please respond promptly, as probably as you all are able to. With that this hearing is adjourned. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] sunday at 2 p. M. Eastern on booktv former National Security adviser for President Trump john bolton and his book the room where it happened on his time in the Trump Administration. Sunday at 3 30 p. M. Eastern, faith and Freedom Coalition founder ralph reed on his book for god and country, the christian case for trump. And sunday at 9 p. M. Eastern on after words author and robin hood ceo westmore on his book five days about the 2015 baltimore uprising following the death of freddie gray. Hes interviewed by the most senior fellow heather mcghee. Watch booktv sunday at 2 p. M. , 3 30 p. M. And 9 p. M. Eastern on cspan2. A very good friday morning to you. You can start calling in now. We begin with the scene on the steps outside the capital yesterday i had of the final house vote on the George Floyd Justice and policing act. This is karen bass, chairwoman of the Congressional Black Caucus and one of the lead sponsors about legislation. 12yearold 12yearold tamid be alive today if the justice and policing act had past six years ago. It is fitting that today we will pass this historic legislation. It is saving because today june 25 within his 18th birthday. A profession where you have t