Many situations people find themselves. The recession has laid bare the economic struggles of millions of American Families with almost no warning to the shutdown that claimed tens of millions of jobs and American Workers and families felt the ground fall from under them. The. The country was on the verge and so many have lost their livelihoods and exhausted their financial reserves. They are facing financial catastrophe. That growth hasnt been broadly shared starting in 2009 with 128 months of growth so many neighbors are facing financial catastrophe they do not fal falr r. E irreversible financial disaster. As businesses gradually reopen, many workers are coping with drastically reduced hours and lower paychecks that will not cover their bills. Even people fortunate enough to be returning to work will likely be struggling for some time to come the Child Tax Credit and earned income tax credit and it also supports workers with a more generous employer retention tax credit to maintain payroll and additional credits many are out of work through no fault of their own and they need help with the basics like rental assistance and food. This is no time to abandon. They deserve and should be able to expect support during this outraordinary disaster. Before i recognize the Ranking Members for his statement, i want to mention another piece of legislation that would provide a vital tax relief for a subset of americans with disabilities who are living in the United States. We have legislation hr 2086 with Access Technology affordability that would help blind employees and job seekers to get the equipment they need to gain and maintain employment during the pandemic. Working from home has made exponentially more difficult when your ability to work is so reliant on Expensive Technology that many do not have readily accessible outside of their workplace. I urge m my colleagues to look t this legislation and work with me and mr. Kelly to advance it and i ask unanimous consent that this statement by hand be entered into the record. Hearing no objection, so will be the order. With that i wont recognize the Ranking Member smith from nebraska for the purpose of an opening statement. Thank you mr. Chairman for holding todays hearing. A partial shutdown of the economy and the congressional response to it goes unprecedented. Before this pandemic shocked the nation 3. 5 and the highest wage gain seen by the burner is because of the demand was so high. This downturn is unlike any other. To socially distance and protect themselves, their families, their friendslv and neighbors. The future progression of the disease is how successful programs ultimately will be in keeping the economy to handle in the long run. Th definitely wants to keep the doors open and to be able to continue serving the communities in the way they were earlier this year. For this reason the primary focus must be on ensuring the future legislation is focused on reopening the economy and incentivizing. We are readyrk to work with with you as well and to contribute. To restore the confidence to create a through the end of 2020 reconfiguring workspaces the act provided aid and a Popular Program was nothing short of successful these past few months but for help may be needed and we need additional ideas to help businesses maintain liquidity duringmp these trying times. Thatthat is why we should make america more competitive by increasing [inaudible] the need to make it Even Stronger now is to work with these individuals and improve the ability of the states to assist to help people stay in the workplace. These were bipartisan ideas two years ago and they continue to support them now. We must work on a bipartisan statement necessary to resume so they can continue working and have access to Economic Opportunities available. Thank you and i yield back. Without objection all members Opening Statements will be made a part of the record. Thank you to the distinguished witnesses for taking the time to appear before us today to discuss these important issues. I will introduce the witnesses before we get started here. First senior counsel for the National Womens law center where she works on issues affecting lowco and moderate wih a speciall emphasis on federal and statee tax policy. The coexecutive director of the Georgetown Center on poverty and inequality he leaves work to develop and advance ideas for reducing domestic poverty and inequality with particular attention to gender and racial inequality. She leads the federal policy work for the program directed at improving economic wellbeing for the Healthcare Systems integration to address the social risk factors among patientsn and families locally and nationally. The next witness im going to ask our colleagues to introduce her. Is you may have it on mute. Weve give her a little time and then i will introduce the blast with this. Ill is a resident fellow at the Enterprise Institute where he studied federal tax policy before joining aei, he was the chief economist and Vice President of Economic Analysis at the Tax Foundation where he led the Macro Economic team. Thank you mr. Chairman. It is my honor to introduce can you hear me . Vice president of Economic Analysis where he learned the team and rode on various tax policy topics including the Corporate Taxation, carbon tax reform and now i will yield to introduce the final witness. Can you hear me mr. Chairman . Wese can hear you, yes. Now we dont. The sorry about that. Thank you mr. Chairman. Its my honor to introduce the bilingual Early Childhood educator and proud member where she emphasized womens voices. Im sorry. Can you hear me now. It must be my connection. We can hear you. I am trying. I am here but im not sure about my connection. You are going in and out. Why dont we recognize your constituents. We can hear you now. Go ahead. Let me just say ms. Rodrigues is the constituent and close friend as they Work Together and has nothing but glowing comments to make and is a bilingual preschool educator facingl Economic Hardships as a result of the recession. Shes lost her job. Her husband lost one of his two jobs and theyve been left with parttime work. She and her husband have two Young Children and i know that she wanted to make the introduction and sadly we are still rustling through the challenges of the technology of these platforms but we are going to be using. But now first let me say thank you to all the witnesses for taking your time to be here. Each of your statements will be made a purpose the record in its entirety. I would ask that you summarize your testimony in five minutes or less. Please keep an eye on the clock. If you go over your time i will notify you with a tap of my virtual gavel. We will proceed with ms. Matsui. Chairman thompson, Ranking Members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify. Im the director of income security senior counsel at the National Womens de law center. The crisis revealed disastrous consequences of longstanding inequities. Many Indigenous Women of color, women with low incomes struggled tstruggleto make ends meet evens the recession and lack the savings to cushion the economic downturn. Women predominate in many jobs such as healthier child care, social Service Workers many of which are poorly paid and present substantial wage gaps. Women are also underrepresented in sectors have suffered devastating job losses such as retail, restaurant and other service sectors. Health disparities and women with disabilities have been exacerbated and in short they experienced the greatest disadvantagesta before covid19 have been hit hardest. Against the backdrop it is critically important to prioritized and provide what they need to live, learn and work. Congress now hasas the opportuny to enact policies that will advance the Economic Security and mitigate the effects of the recession. While many tax provisions will leave out women of color and people with low income, those like the earned income tax credit and Child Tax Credit especially benefits women of color. These boost incomthese boost inp reduce the harsh economic effects of gender and racial inequity by narrowing the wage gaps, improving health, education and Employment Outcomes for families and reducing poverty. Moreover, improving the tax credit most importantly by making it refundable would help the families meet the high cost of child care. Those with direct payments are also critically important. They relieve the Financial Stress experienced by those that have lost jobs or wages. In addition, women in families with incomes and low levels of cash on hand tend to spend them quickly to buy groceries, pay bills. Expandeextended refundable tax s under the direct assistance with mitigate the recession. The act congress provide fact r the lifetime direct payment but more must be done. Some especially vulnerable individuals and families were left out of the Economic Impact payment including certain dependents in households that filed tax returns using an individual tax identification number. In addition, millions of eligibleon people who do not ordinarily file tax returns are likely to miss out on payments and people of color are disproportionately represented in the group. Moreover, while Economic Impact payment help those that receive the company families need more resources to pay bills as they come due. Importantly, the act was built to improve the Economic Impact payment wouldld include many defendants had families left out of the back and enact an additional payment. A in addition, it would enact improvements so those now claiming children are not safe to poverty and improvements to the tax credit worth millions into improvements include a refund ability to the tax credit that would ensure they can access this benefit. The tax cut has the potential to support an economy that works for all of us. Thank you for the opportunity to justify and i welcome any questions that you might have. Thank you very much. Now mr. Group you are recognized for five minutes. Im th the co executivewhene director of the Georgetown Center on poverty and im honored to come for the subcommittee to speak to the importance of leveraging the tax code to support working families during the recession. Ive worked on these policies for overr a decade before, durig and after the crisis. Policymakers must avoid the spending prematurely. Not long after the act of 2009 policymakers shifted to prosperity and we needed more time to close the jobs gap. In other words it took seven and a half years to create enough jobs to make up for those lost and to absorb new workers. We now face a farce for the recession the opportunity for the needless suffering the Congressional Budget Office have nearly 16 trilliondollar tax over the next decade and those experiencing record levels of job loss during pandemic amounted to 20 million that may be receiving or waiting to receive unemployment assistance. Workers of color have been especially hard hit. The early federal response including the first Coronavirus Response at provided an essential down payment but its simply not enough. They failed to match in duration and to at least 2021 additional measures that areas substantial but the worst economic condition some key federalen support programs to end in the coming weeks at a time when households and governments are cutting back the federal government alone can spend more to help us weather the crisis. Today its an investment for families, communities and businesses we must marshal a wide range of strategies to ensure that we build a stronger economy coming out of t the recession. We must, the strategies should be targeted and while these fixes to the tax code are ultimately necessary, theres a number of measures we can take right now to help mitigate the iisis including one, providing additional and more inclusive Economic Impacts regardless of immigration status, age or thinking status. To, the tax creditwo to mark aggressively with modest earnings and to reach workers without children of a larger credit and more households. Number three, increasing and providing the maximum including families withcl older children. For making the child and dependent tax credit for the high cost of care and five, establishing ave meaningful optn outside to help the ford health coverage. Any of these positionss. And moe are in the house passed act that has been waiting in the senate for weeks. Lets not forget that there is a virus threatening the lives of millions of americans beyond the 117,000 or more who already died of covid19. The Actions Congress takes or fails to take whether we have the financial ruin and hardships for the millions of workers and families, people have sacrificed their livelihoods and their lives. Most are at risk if they fail to provide ongoing support. People are already experiencing a preventable joblessness under these outcomes and supporting the Mental Health and wellbeing of tax policy is typical policy with stability to reach tens of millions the test system is vital. Together with others including expansions of Unemployment Benefits now is the time to push these as far as we can. You may please proceed. Ranking members of the committee and give her the opportunity to testify. Im the director of strategy at the Medical Center with pediatricians and Public Health researchers committed to advancing equity and improving the health of Young Childrenea d families fight in forming policies that we are also honored in the coalition for i will discuss based on research at the boston Medical Center families with children are already worried about paying and putting food on the table today and in the coming months. Families of color in immigrant families are disproportionately impacted by the current recession and based on previous recessions they will continue to struggle after the economy recovers. This will affect a generation of children and it will have Lifelong Health impacts. However this reality doesnt have to present the choices made herein congressil could change those. Families need urgent relief to weather the effects of the crisis. The work begins in pediatric studies where there are Young Children at hospitals in boston, baltimore, philadelphia, minneapolis and metal rock. When families are not able to afford food, rento and utilitie. During the Great Recession we show they were hit hard and experience high rates of hardship. The current recession the nation is facing is deeper and more devastating for many in this is playing out. Many struggled for the basic needs prior to covid19. We were alarmed that the increases in the hardships and in response weve taken extraordinary steps to distribute cleaning supplies and sscreate a Housing Assistance fund. Staff have worked tirelessly to ensure families are connected to all available state and federal resources including the effort led by the preparation site to ensure families are able to explain their Economic Impacts. All of this is being done on top of the mobile vaccine unit. While they are necessary to protect patients and families we are aware they do not reach enough families and they are unsustainable over the long term. The federal response as are necessary to adequately respond to the crisis. While it has virtually spared most children we cant lose sight of the fact they will suffer the greatest consequences of this economicns crisis. Children are being pushed deeper into poverty and Economic Hardships are skyrocketing, particularlyla among immigrant families which in turn exacerbates health disparity. But also the benefits have already been proven effective as theyve lifted millions outut of poverty and increase the workforce participation. They also are strongly associated in improved life expectancy. The centers for Disease Control and prevention recently categorized one of the key interventions. Today come implementing both rapid and longterm measures to reduce Economic Hardships r is critical for preventing future health of the nation. While the act provided immediatelimmediaterelief, the d 30 Million People ofof income eligible teenagers and young adults with disabilities. The act includes the expansion to the Economic Impact payment, Child Tax Credit, earned income tax credit that reduced poverty for years to come. These measures are needed now. Children and families f strugglg cannot continue to wait. Using the tax code to administer the benefits throughout economic recovery are not only important but part of the nations Public Health infrastructure for building the healthy population while doing this pandemic. Thank you. [applause] thank you very much. Ms. Rodrigues, you may proceed. Good morning, congressman. Lingual instructor and we worked long hard hours to provide for our children. We live paycheck to paycheck and struggling for savings. And middle of march our workplace suddenly closed due to the pandemic. I lost both of my jobs on the same day my husband lost his job as a bartender. Overnight my h now we were worried about contracting this terrible the virus. We are also worried how we will cover basic expenses like food and mortgage. Ii was not approved for insurance because i was working a parttime job. The Unemployment Benefits are limited for my husband. Working 20 hours each week but that is not enough to pay our bills. We are not sure what to do. The job market is very tough right nownd and we worry about contracting the virus were looking at jobs that getting costco or target for those that are hiring in our community. Butwe the schedule changes every week it would be very hard to find a second job that is willing to schedule me around his work and now my kids are home from school. One of us needs to take care of c them. There is no way we can afford child care. Im working very hard to homeschool them right now so its important to be that we do everything to keep them on track. And that financial crisis we want to be working but we are not sure. Our Mortgage Lender has given us three months extension that we will owe them a lot of money we are terrified and dont know what we willl do. The checks that were issued in april have shortterm relief for us. We are trying not to pay said amount of debit of debt. It we are struggling and we dont have many options. If we are going to get back on heret feet. In certain time in the Child Tax Credit will also be a huge help over the course of the next year and its hard to say if we will be working or how secure those jobs will be. The earned income tax credit and the Child Tax Credit will give us peace of mind this will go a long way to help parents like us and to recover from the pandemic and the tax code i hope you remember my story thank you. Thank you very much. You may proceed. Chairman, Ranking Member smithha thank you for the opportunity to speak today about tax policy and the federal governments response to the covid19 pandemic my testimony i make four points. First although there is room for improvement the tax provisions provided timely Economic Relief and to there are signs the economy is doing better and businesses and individuals need additional Economic Relief and any assistance to the tax code would be well targeted and temporary. Lawmakers should avoid arbitrary design with appropriate tax relief and finally although the federal government must be addressed at some point lawmakers should avoid raising taxes while the economy is still recovering. With the economic slowdown passing five pieces of legislation providing three. 6 trillion in Economic Relief. A significant portion of thatt p was born of tax relief in the cares act. Rebates for individuals and tax relief for individuals and payroll tax relief. The largest single revenue provision where the Economic Relief payments for households. Businesses had an increase of cash flow as well as that tempering expansion although there are ways you could improve the tax provisions in the rebates they do a good job to provide assistance to individuals. Over the last couple of weeks we have seen some signs the economy is improving but it will remain low well below its potential for several years the Labor Department today reported 45 million file for unemployment last week individuals will need assistance as long as they continue to use the tax code to provide assistance to ensure the tax relief is well targeted to individuals and businesses affected by the pandemic and recent proposals have failed to be geared to the economic situation. For example the white house has suggested the narrowing target Tax DeductionHouse Democrats and the heroes act on state and local Tax Deductions and then to be targeted to those. Lawmakers should avoid arbitrary tax relief the heroes act compare those provisions from businesses in the cares act. For example they reinstate the passthrough and make it permanent and in addition that allows to disallow for those corporations and there is little justification for these arbitrary numbers and caused by the pandemic and the federal response it with those increases and they may have an interest like an increase in some point from tax increases and spending cuts. The cost of borrowing is very low 1 percent of early april and federal interest cost has remained relatively low the past few t years even when Interest Rates were higher. And then to impede Economic Relief and recovery higher cash flow would make it more difficult to maintain a payroll likewise higher taxes would have a short term cap on egthe budget. Tax policy has beeno important proponent with the economic slowdown. While there is room for improvement these provisions provide we needed relief and tax policy can provide temporary relief so in that Current Situation ultimately the most effectively to get the economy back to normal is to get the virus under control. Thank you. Thank you very much. Without objection, each member will be recognized for five minutes to question witnesses. We will not observe the gibbons role in this remote setting and instead go in order of seniority switching between majority and minority numbers a. Members are reminded to unmute when you are recognized for your five minutes i will begin by recognizing myself. Ms. Rodriguez im very sorry to learn of the difficulties your family has been experiencing and hope youre able to get back on your feet as quickly as possible. Did your family receive a stimulus check . If so we were able to use it on necessities to help your family cover expenses . Would it be helpful to your family and if so how do you thank you would use that . We received a check of what was really helpful to the family we paid our mortgage if we received an order it would ri helpful because we learned yesterday that im pretty sure im the third person in the classroom so i will be allowed to have a jobnd again. So will take care of my kids . Im thinking about that so many parents dont know whats going on in the school right now in the School System will change. I really love made job but im very nervous whats going on with my family. And i want to lose what i have right now. I dont have family here i know how hard it is so even if i return to work starting working at 25 percent of the people so it would be the same as before so i am nervous atabout that. I cant imagine how difficult that would be and with more jobs before this and nthe families that are in every bit as bad of a situation. Welcome back to the committee and then to inquire about that pandemic recession in that pre pandemicel level of financial fragility among American Families with food dbanks pacing demand and the situation and supposedly the pandemic economy does not give millionspp of families. And thats exactly right. The pandemic for those who didnt already know the financial circumstances f were and even after the largest economic expansion and in history im not sure what word. First, letsge not forget the Unemployment Rate has the variation withic africanamericans typically chasing the double Unemployment Rate of white workers in the us economy. Second its already pointed out very few families could whether any sort of financial emergency of several hundred dollars. Theother Data Confirms struggles if they went just a week without a paycheck. What policy should they pursue with low and middle income families with Financial Stability . Thats a great question. First i think we have a major challenge of lowpaying jobs and unpredictable and unfair Work Schedules and we need to with the earned income tax credit and with the American Familiesct act to ensure every child in this country lives in a household with minimal income. At the end of the day cash is essential. We can do a lot through caregiving support. Our friends at the National Law Center called for at least 50 billion of additional child care funding for immediate relief to create jobs directly and indirectly to think about a new care economy investing in thesese jobs to help families whether the crisis. Why is that . You can also lose access to child care because of the pandemic, schools have to shut down and we can do a lot that will not be outsourced there is more but the ten tax and transfer system can do a lot to prepare and whether any future crisis. Given the pay gap between men and women which is sizable for white women compared to white women tell us about the eitc. They can for thewo question. So that improvement to the eit c Child Tax Credit proposal of the heroes act and retail nursing jobs and then to be disproportionately represented. It is a little bed of cycle with that wage gap. Im more likely to be eligible for the tax credit for families and to be help more for these credits for that boosted income. I am interested in the fact your organization is dedicated to improving the health of low income children and became advocates of the earned income tax credit of the refundable Child Tax Credit as a means to promote Better Child Health can you tell us how you came to understand those two things being so closelyco connected . But not with the Economic Hardship so when we are approach with the research esquestion with the refundable credits could be a policy reliever and then talking to experts of people of experience and social providers that is not just policy to reduce poverty but there is the emerging body of evidence of the impact on child health and the credit thats incredibly important for child health a couple of reasons and then to have implications on health and developmenth and yet held and with low birth weight and with the earned income tax credit so we were excited to start working on this because it shows theor power and other shortterm and longterm health outcomes. Thank you very much. I recognize the rankingmbr. Member mr. Smith for five minutes. As you discuss in the t opening testimony with those targeted tax provisions in individualsid and families it is one time payment called the economic it impacts payment. For businesses it provided to allow businesses to receive tax refunds in that accelerated the refund of the alternative minimum tax credit is as to tax relief for families and businesses get all stories in the district for what it provided. And on the tax relief policy is targeted. Sometimes we are told the tax policy it cannot be positive for individuals why is this not the case and can you give an example how that directly helps workers . So to some degree the business tax relief because a lot of these proposals put forth provides emphasis to individuals that was to help businesses maintain payroll maintain the connection between businesses and individuals so one example of this from thell cares act as the employer side payroll tax. And then to delay the payment of the tax or the payroll that they pay to their workers so for a short period of time and to keep employees higher and Holding Everything hostage should maker it for them to be connected to their jobs and then and the general tax code that tax policy to impact workers and in the context of the cares act. You also testified congress should avoid raising taxes at this stage while the economy is still week. Can you elaborate why that is unwise . Inse my testimony and whether yhe cares act or other provisions and to help households maintain their budgets and their bills. And raising taxes for businesses work against that goal. Thank you so much its important that we hear from you. And you represent many families that are struggling for those that are vital part of our country. Would it be helpful to provide incentives so it would be safe to return to . Thank you for asking ask the last again. Do you think it would be helpful to have a safe workplace to return to those measures could be taken and to spread inn the workplace and that technology. Yes. And we went to go back to work. Sharing that perspective is vital. Thank you mr. Smith you are recognized for five minutes. Thank you to all of our witnesses. As they have indicated with that income gap and Racial Disparity has been intensified by this pandemic and longstanding. We know people of color are overrepresented in keeping the country open with low pay and relatively unsafe conditions i believe every actions our Committee Takes to provide relief to address this inequality at the very least lets not make mattersrs worse lets work to the 2008 crisis because the big banks and executives that contributed to so much recovered rather swiftly working families are still fully recovered from being hit so hard though they face the pandemic and economic crisis as we consider to how best deliver assistance through the tax code we also need to recognize for years it has helped too perpetuate instead of reducing it through the years house ways and Means Committee particularly through the republican 2017 tax law. While leaving behind families of cover of color about encouraging retirement savings. Unfortunately the pandemic relief enacted in recentna months repeats some of these mistakes under the cares act 60 percent of the tax provisions for this year are for businesses most of which come with no strings attack to make sure they maintain payroll the cbo recently affirmed aid to state and local governments and other direct expenditures are far more effective is a stimulus and tax expenditures directed to Corporate Tax breaks. And then to widen the income gap. Those like ms. Rodriguez anxiously a rates the stimulus check in with that provision to deliver an average of one one. 6 billion no Strings Attached and to average more than 1 million in annual income already. This group has over 80 percent of the benefits and 135 billion with more assistance to them that all through the same act. The heroes act would repeal that provision that he large corporations 400 of tax breaks they already received is just not enough. As the stock market soars hundreds of millions of a distant additional assistance remains untouched and we need liquidity to Small Businesses and frontline workers are struggling with millions of americans doesnt even have a singles check or werehe excluded to file taxes some corporations the republicans seemed while posing relief to families we were provided to the heroes act the Economic Advisor larry kudlow says we need to the Corporate Tax rate in half are companies that bring jobs home. The trump tax law already allows them in with offshore investments and since no tax break and while republicans have stood to expand refundable tax credits for working people like the eitc and child tax credi credit, they are now lining up to make tax breaks for Large Businesses refundablendab so thy ede the fancy name to monetize tax credits. And that most effective is one effective stimulus provides direct assistance to those that need it the most and we should have giveaways with thatys approach. I do agree for working families that empower the economy especially the frontline workers that we rely on at the moment and to provide support and assistance to the tax code that should be a priority. Thank you for the question. Please leave enough time for the witnesses to get an answer. You are recognized for five minutes. Is that with the government stimulus check . I think it depends where we are with the virus. If we think the economy is safe to reopen in individuals face to go back to work and to earn a paycheck and as we mentioned at the end of the testimony l and it is necessary for the time being. What is the Payroll Protection Program . And with the forgivable loans to Small Businesses to keep workers employed. Is a to keep the workers employed. This goes back to the earlier point is not useful to make that distinction for individuals so thats the proper meaning. The purpose was to encourage businesses to keep employee people that they otherwise laid off. And with this total effectiveness and to keep that employer employee relationship maintained. So to be in Myrtle Beach South Carolina there is no industry more affected by this virus and it shut down hotels and restaurants actually 1700 restaurants. They can have people into their businesses. Eremployer after employer to keep them on payroll. That now the restriction is that they havee survived. And those on the lower and would have been laid off for a good. With this cause of the provision so i would strongly push back on this characterization it was limited ton Small Business. So to reference the fact that people are safe. Do you think its a goodin idea so there is logic so to improving so they feel safe to go back to work. So that is up in the air. I am on the tax policy. The republicans have held the line for people on the lower end. Did it change the Child Tax Credit at all . Yes the tax jobs acted expand did you expand the job tax credit . I now recognize mr. Larson for five minutes. An thank you for your testimony. Covid19 so thank you for pointing that out it is linked and tied into be successful we have to address both. So truly that so we need to do. s and with the success of the caress act and joined with republicans to come up with a solution. The heroes act also presents that same opportunity but so does the opportunity here to address what is going on. I want to submit for the record with Federal Reserve chairman who testified in front of the say it Senate Banking committe committees low income households while job losses africanamericans and hispanics have been greater that of any other group if not contained in reverse the downturn can further widening gaps of economic wellbeing if there was some progress. Our colleague john lewis had said at its core, this is a civil rights issue. Chairman powell pick points out our health and economy is inextricably linked in time. And we have an opportunity here to come together. I have long believed what we need to do is take our existing programs and expand upon them. We have taken of the secures act we are thought to deal with pension reform and yet we also know this committee has priority with regard to Social Security. Something that congress has neglected for over 37 years and hasnt had an expansion in 55. And to have the most basic of requirements including the 5 Million People currently of Social Security who received the below minimum income checks. According for the center for Budget Priorities 108,000 connecticut residents missing out on the impact payment if they dont fill out the form with the irs. These constituents are most likely to be the lowest income owners expand on this programs that already have participation and efficiency rates like the eitc and Social Security. This is a crucial point. We can write policy in congress and not have the intended effect of what peoples lives are really like and those that can benefit from these programs. So the recovery rebates right now will miss 12 million he would be eligible but we could have done more to take advantage like the snap program or the wic program. And to help us reach a lot of those households who desperately need those resources. Nobody wants a program to be inefficient and slow to respond. But we need to think hard to these programs reach in the eitc for those with qualified children has extraordinary participation rates of 80 percent or more. But then those without qualified children and the Treasury Department ultimately took advantage of its ability to deliver payments through the Economic Impact payment and other programs and Going Forward we need to make sure that the Treasury Department works even more extensively for those. Your time is expired. If i were to reach out and forgive me have a crude hound that decided to just come visit me. If i decided to reach out to our witnesses and what policies on theul tax front that could do multiple things those on the lower side of the economic spectrum but also economic expansion and i understand we have an unknown in front of us what is happening with the virus. Give me one or two things the subcommittee should move forward on what would that be . Thank you for the question. There are a lot of individuals that theyli need relief because that is justified. Because of the downturn continues and the economy is still south then extending that provision is appropriate. And on the Business Front with the jobs act that will expire so for example in 2022 those voter depreciation will phase out around the same time. Intellectual property investmen investment. These are things that can work against the economy so to say these sorts of provisions that are friends on the other side to have impact, if right now we are having one of these moments of us history to see the Unemployment Rate and the hardship and the suffering , what do we do from a policy standpoint . Money for things like childcare, fine. What do we do to get employment and opportunity . Before this happens we finally see that miracle of a real big a breakthrough of wage gain. I now talk about getting back to that but and at a time like this. Virus containment and to stay out of the way and those provisions. And impact policy there is no silver bullet. And then to offset that incentive for hiring . And for business to do employment individuals what would you consider . Looking at the aftertax cost of the payroll tax cuts for employers and those are roughly similar in their effectiveness. Thank you mr. Chairman. Now aid two one ratio. I want to thank our Witnesses Today because the testimony has been very powerful i hope our colleagues on the other side take note for what has been shared by them. Familieses cannot wait and workers to serve a fair tax code one that gives them a fair chance. Then proud to champion as a mother to an 11 yearold i know all too well how difficult it is to not have childcare. Im proud my legislation helps to cover expenses related to the pandemic in the most recent package that passed the house we have to do better forr caregivers and the majority of caregivers of working mothers in california has over four. 5 million caregivers who provide an estimated those in the pandemic is affecting the unique population. Can you share your thoughts and ways we can better target our work to help thes people and specifically family caregivers . Thank you for the question. Many tax provisions including expand in the refundable tax credit would provide relief and support for family caregivers. Women often tend to shoulder the burden disproportionately and there has been a lot of storiesdidias because the childe system has not had the support it needs in order to operate safely help childcare providers make it to the pandemic and enable safety regulations to be met, there is a concern men who are low were paid may have to leave the workforce in order to provide care. So the tax relief that is in here to make it refundable is a significant and robust investment to the Childcare Development fund as well as the paid family medical leave provision to make those permanent and more comprehensive that can help families balance work and caregiving responsibilities. Were trying to get people into the workforce and not sidelined them and that will be the reality without investment in childcare. Thank you for sharing with your struggles today your experience is not unique many people that are represented you speak on behalf of millions of working parents finding themselves caught in a situation where they dont have the financial wherewithal to keep their Families Together hopefully the input will help members on this committee renew their can on their commitment to fight. You heard many comments and questions and i wonder if you have any thoughts based upon what you have heard so far . We really want to have childcare for our kids and the most important thing and we really needed relief right away and then to go anywhere because i have two kids. So we are fighting for the same reason and its very important even if they are legal or not. Thank yous i totally understand that i have my last question it is something that you touched on in the time that i have left talk about the interplay between tax assistance and direct assistance programs to me they are complementary and must go handinhand. Can you comment . Thank you for your question. As weth noted where childcare providers are operating on very low margins. Those that are operating are working at half capacity and how the health and safety materials that they need. So in addition a Child Care Development blockklo grant offes direct assistance on the one out of six can receive those funds because of the current level of funding. For those that cannot afford child care what they paid outofpocket. Those with direct t assistance but also the child care system. Thank you. Thank you for holding this important hearing thank you to all of our witnesses. First i want to respond to changes in the Child Tax Credit raised in the republican tax bill to expand the Child Tax Credit for taxpayers with income as high as 400,000 that republicans failed to increase to that same amount for the earned income threshold to increase the credit percentage it ensures that the poorest americans the children will benefit from the increase the most which is a big reason why last year introduce the American Family act which would expand the Child Tax Credit increasing 3000 per child. And it gives them the authority to give that credit as the advance or Monthly Payment and was social policy at Columbia University shows the pre pandemic the Child Tax Credit expansion like that in the heroes act would cut the Child Poverty rate for black children and half with the cove in 18 recession is supposed to be higher than these estimates and the hero act wouldoes reduce from the baseline. Thank you again for being here today from the great state of washington and the Child Tax Credit expansion families could receive 250 per child and under the age of six each month. Talk about the expansion of the Child Tax Credit would help your family in the importance to make sure the senate ask quickly to make that happen. Right now we have to pay food and it is expensive. But this would be helpful we dont want to ask for more and more help we were happy to hear that. Whether we will have to the next day or not. That better directly to the family because if you give money to an employer it will be better if we have the money directly. What is needed to build longterm Financial Stability and address the inequality by the crisis . Thank you for the opportunity to respond. Right now the health the marginalized communities are front and center and we are seeing the devastating effects that the disparities can has but the poverty and racism have been making people sick and now to have this discussion and those inequities created by the virus and currents recession are exacerbated so we really want to live in a country where every child has an opportunity to thrive as found in the American Families act that extend benefits and increase thedi credit with the lowest income families to afford basic needs today and tomorrow and well after the pandemic. All of those l particularly the appropriation money but on the proverbial credit card Rainy Day Fund service continues to add to the debt for up to over 25 trillion thats going to cause us problems down the road. Im going to have you comment on that in a second if i can. Its important and i believe the health and safety as a number one priority we have to look out for as we continue to have covid19 without a cure or treatmentov or vaccine. Shutting down the economy and definitely will not accomplish the goals of safety and health so again we have to find a balance and measured approach of moving forward to do that and to restore the company to its strength is essential workers and consumers are participating in the workplace. As republicans in a number of democrats we support tax incentives to. That brings me to a piece of legislation called the clean start tax credit act but im sponsoring a and we believe again. What it does is ensure the business is to cover the increased cost of training to help properly sanitize as they start to reopen for the 50 refundable tax credit of up to 25,000 per unique location. Along with senator portman and senator cardin for the compliance our goal is to extend the section available to restaurants, to the Beauty Industry and barber shops as they have been affected. We believe this is important for the industry and we look forward to working on that. Having mentioned that, i wonder ifif you can comment about the amount of debt we continue to create and the ramifications of that. We are not going to be able to spend our way out of this epidemic. Thank you. Even before the pandemic the federal debt held byt the public as a percentage of gdp was around 80 . This year it would climb to about 97 in 2030 and as you mentioned it would be about 4 trillion but that doesnt even account for the slower economic output we are already seeing soviets certainly something to keep in mind. As i mentioned in my testimony, i dont think its something to be concerned with right now. I think the cost of doing too little and Economic Relief is greater than the doing too little. If we look at the indicators here for the u. S. Treasury. There is important Government Spending since it seems we still have space. That said, its something we need to address in the future and after we solve the current economic issue. The gentlemans time has expired. Theres more moore, you are recognized for five minutes. You may be on mute. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member, my time is limited. When they say unemployment has been lower among africanamericans think about what it had been. No one should have to work for jobs to take care of their family. Do you think we should also raise taxes and as you know as others have said here today we can do that by being austere for example being in denial. If they are protecting people that are more secure we should also not raise taxes on the poor. There is no reason to be raising taxes on income household [inaudible] those who dont pay taxes either, do you endorse those proposals i think there is a question [inaudible] one of the virtues is where that relief can be provided. Otherve heard from experts we could expect and Economic Impact of last 20 to 21 for the process now of building the recovery poverty among children is now at 40 so can you share with us the importance of putting in place something to prevent hunger, starvation, homelessness andhi health probls among Homeless Children . [inaudible] we do not have to look very far at what happened in the Great Recession with the poverty rates they were effective in mitigating those. Let me ask you this, i have a proposal and i am so pleased yom looked through it to comment at what it might do for the Economic FoundationGoing Forward. [inaudible] it would extend the income Tax Obligation so it would extend credit to those people and also g you want to know the Health Benefits often those are things like Healthy Behaviors and we know we need those like purchasing foods we need to be able to do that every single month. Thank you. My timee is expired. I have a unanimous consent request. I want to submit for the record a statement to be made as well as the joint trade associate [inaudible] to help recover from the pandemic. I missed that before so thank you for the opportunity. Without objection. That all members please mute, we are getting some feedback. Thank you. He doesnt wish to inquire. I recognize mr. Buyer for five minutes. Thank you mr. Chairman very much. Discussing the opposition to quote on quote arbitrary limitations by the comparison in 1965 it was 201 with more than 17 million in 2018. 85 of the money went to the stock buybacks or shareholder insurance. If we get to the arbitrary limitations how about the rebates in the act limited to those with children under the age of 17 so you had in adult child with a significant disability and taking care of parents with alzheimers, you are not eligible for that. Perhaps limitations based on corporate practice wouldnt you think that we should expand those things to get rid of the arbitrariness of limiting the . I have no problem expanding the definition under the Economic Impact. I estimated switching from the definition under the Child Tax Credit for just children under the age of 17 to the definition of the dependent exception under prior law. The wonderful with us from Washington State covid19 is hardest on those that have the least and has exposed the underlying economic. Doesnt it points to our need to think beyond the nearterm as we start the tax policy in response to this crisis . Thank you representative for your leadership on ensuring tt its tied to Economic Conditions and i would agree with you we are benefiting on b the fact people did not experience [inaudible] they established the Social Security act and took other measures that created some foundation for us today to be able to get some money out the door and with all the struggles it is one of the only ways we can get out weekly checks to people who need it. I think the last economic expansion, again if not the longest in u. S. History still left millions of households behind and inequality persisted at extreme levels including extraordinary racial wealth gaps little progress. Going forward to think about how we can be the foundation for a much stronger economy. I realize in the midst of a crisis we are going to put out the fires but we should ask ourselves do we want to rebuild the same sort of structure or can we build a new one and one thing i would add we havent said this directly but one reason families here are struggling to even have a minimal amount on a weekly or monthly basis in the 1996 welfare law we dreaded cash assistance and we are paying the price to this day. So proposals like the representatives family act are worth pursuing and it makes sense to include a version of that but we should ask ourselves whether it makes sense to well beyond this crisis. Districts and youre recognized for five minutes. Chairman thompson and Ranking Member smith, thank you for posting this hearing and great discussion. I think obviously it is important to deliberate how best to move this country forward through the Recovery Period and on the performance that was unprecedented its a blessing if there ever was one to hav have e fundamentals the way they were and having the list of employment in 50 years and having the page is increasing among the many other things is a fantastic position to be if you are going to bounce back. I think ms. Matsui would appreciate the debate on whether it was as a result of progrowth tax policies. I would say that it wass absolutely a huge part of that that women and minorities were those who benefited the most with the tax reform. Im looking at a New York Times article that talks about Hispanic Women with the most games and its the most of any prime Age Working Group and we had the lowest unemployment in African American and other minority groups. Thats something i think we can all champion and cheer for and be proud of. Ms. Rodriguezz, i appreciate yor story and r representing hard working families all across the orcountry. Thank you for your testimony. We need to find ways to shore up the safety net and provide a temporary targetedem assistanceo help folks like you. But if you could have the choice between more government assistance and stimulus checks and whatever we could create words you could have your job back into the certainty of an income in a place that you go to do to provide the service and provide for your family, which one would you prefer to do at this point . I would go back to work. But i want to work in a safe place. We are going to need child care. I appreciate your desire to work because i think the most important thing we can do to get the country out of this sort of temporary recession and back to a strong rebounding and recovery in an economy that is growing by a described is to reopen the economy. In texas we are about 75 open and trusting the citizens of texas to know how to safely return to work. We know theres more risk now and its going to be with us for a while and we can do some basic things to try to manageas those risks but weve trusted the people of texas and i think longterm those families are going to be so much better off than if w they just tried to fid ways thatt temporarily keep them lyst j hanging on instead of sustainably going back to work and making a living. Do you feel like you would know howib to safely and responsiblyo back to work at this point knowing what we know . [inaudible] it is going to be so hard to work and be parents at the same time. And god bless you. Thank you so much. We now recognize you for five minutes. Og thank you mr. Chairman. Thank you to all the witnesses for the work youve done here today and for your insight. We appreciate your time and help here today. I want to ask a question if i may. Do you think the state and local governments are an important part of the economy . State and local governments are currently employed there. The numbers about 20 million is that correct . That seems about right. About 1. 5 million have been goid off or furloughed from state and local governments during this recession which is double the amount of people laid off or furloughed during the quote on quote Great Recession. Yes theyve hit people in the private and public sector. Do you think the federal government has a role to help state and local governments . The way i see it is state governments in contrast to the federal government, they cant really borrow in the same way. They are restricted by balanced budget amendments. So the revenue goes down because the economy is down state and local governments [inaudible] it can lead to layoffs and people unexpectedly losing their jobs. I dont know that theres concern about the pension balance and things like that, but it shows what they are losing revenue. I think that there is w a ple for that. We dont want them to lay off employees. Theres massive debt protected by the senate for budget policy priority is the 615 billion the only thing they ro is either raise taxes or hire more employees both of which you think are bad ideas or get help from the federal government and i think you would agree with the statement each day Congress Fails to act they are forced to make cuts that will devastate service is the American People rely on and destroy the economic recovery before it even gets off the ground i think youd agree with that statement generally, wouldnt you . States will have to react. They say the message is straightforward i and urgent American Cities are still being devastated by this pandemic and it is imperative the administration take swift action before the beginning of the next fiscal year fo switch in many cities is july 1 which is what mr. Barnett said. You are a republican with us here today and agree they need assistance and needed urgently or they will be forced to raise taxes which we dont want them to do orn continue the furlough and fire employees. The people that will be affected are the schools for example 40 of the funding of schools is provided by state governments and the states are devastated right now. The money that they provide are for health and human services. This is a blue state bailout and ghs the height of hypocrisy when in fact right now it is devastated thank you for your cooperation and i appreciate it very much. Thank you to my colleagues and to the chairman and Ranking Member. Doctor ferguson may be having some problems. Lets come back to him. Let us know when your situationn is changed. We will go to mr. Davis from illinois for five minutes. You are recognized for five minutes. Thank you mr. Chair. The care act provided families with Economic Impacts to provide quick and direct Financial Stability during uncertain tim times, 1,200 per adult and 500 per child. I was disappointed only individuals but biography number were eligible for this payment. Theres over 4 million workers in the o United States. They were all left out of this and they contribute to the local economy that are not eligible for relief. Even those that have a National Security number were left out that is outrageous. Covid19 doesnt discriminate and many are due to the effect ofec the virus like so Many Americans and thats why i introduced the Family Protection act which would ensure that they are paid eligible to. Thank you for drawing attention to this important issue we have a substantial payment of over 15 billion based on the 2015 data for example. The Racial Disparities in health and economic outcomes and one of the ways we can address those disparities is by ensuring that we include everyone regardless of the immigration status. When we talk about the workers they are voluntarily complying with the tax law trying to contribute broadly in the labor market and also with regards to taxes and it includes even folks from europe as well as folks from canada and disproportionately folks from asia, africa as well and the final point i would make is right now when you think about essential frontline workers in many ways we are we owe it to them who in many cases are the front line workers and in agriculture keeping the food supply system working so people can still beat if they have the resources to afford. We elected them and it will be in the interest of the Public Health and economy to ensure theyf are included. In the short time i have remaining i was shocked to see making 82 cents for every dollar a man earns. Can you discuss these disparities and Say Something about the remedy . Thank you for the question, representative. The refundable tax credits are important in 2,191. 6 million benefited and because the expansions are targeting in particular with jobs such as house healthcare workers where they are taking such a strong role now it would also benefit those workers and help them meet basic needs. Thank you and i will yield back. I i now recognize mr. Kofi fr five minutes. Thank you mr. Chairman for recognizing me and allowing me to participate in the hearing today which is so important. The hearing is highlighted on the pressing needs for continued support for the working families. Last year introduced the act in the ways and Means Committee with mr. Evans which makes improvements to the young income tax credit and Child Tax Credit. They are critically important and expanding them would positively impact 46 million american households. The. Weve heard that testify into. They are still looking at a long road ahead. So, the question for the panel. One would assume there is a choice between Business Loans and tax credits and Child Tax Credits. Virtually all of us agreed to and supported when it comes to business support we were there with the paycheck protection program. Their paycheck protection program. We supported and continue to support it along with some republican colleagues on the bipartisan bill to expand so we are all in on that. The committee can address why it isnt necessary to choose between Small Business and assuming that they will then produce benefits for working people and it clearly makes the case that those in the Child Tax Credit. Thank you for your question, representative, and for yourh leadership including the working family tax relief act. I do appreciate that question because what they know about women and workers in the lowest paid professions is that even when they are working fulltime before the pandemic of their incomes are falling below the poverty line or near poverty what the refundable tax credits to his update as an incentive employers can safely support their workers and those in the meantime. Its for the importance to the economy is unprecedented as they are literally on the front lines protecting our basic necessities everything from sanitation to basic needs and supporting state and local leaders and this legislation by allowing them the same to keep people on the payroll. Be of the things that relates to it if i had a single word to describe the crisis that we are in for the workers and families businesses are operating in an environment where they will have the operation. You touched on the. Families are literally struggling to put food onab the table as you can see in the uncharted territory. To try to provide some of that certainty is to understand the best practices for the social distancing in particular the economy will be different thanre what preceded it we need to give the businesses, workers what they need to make it through the crisis. They provide them that certainty they have two get through this crisis. The incredibly effective tools to ensure they have the economic wherewithal to emerge and get back on the road toac prosperit. That being said, we are at a critical moment in the nations history, and i think that we have an opportunity here to reform the tax code to ensure that it works for all. We dont know what the economye will click o look like once yout through this pandemic but we do know that it will be different so id like the witnesses to address how this moment in time we can actually help make positive change for the workers and families. Thank you for the question. It does seem like a moment given what we have seen for the care sector to invest in child care as a public good and make sure the person is and placed either on parents to meet the cost of child care on the workforce and providers to provide the high quality learning environment that children need investments in child care sector to make sure not only they survived the Coronavirus Crisis that is recognized as a public good and they dont continue to devalue the labor of caregivers i think would be important in restarting the economy. Thank you representative. To add first i think we need to make sure we have the social infrastructure in place and administrative infrastructure to reach the families when they need help. Its far too hard to get the resources to families to backstop the business sector than it should have been. We need to make sure peopled hae access and make sure they are able to dial up as representative larsen mentioned earlier if we have ongoing payments to make sure they have a basic it is easier in the future. Thank you and, i apologize i went over my time i wont go back. Is doctor ferguson finished with his call . I will go to mr. Panetta for five minutes and then we will come back. You mr. Chairman. Appreciate you holding this hearing and along with the other members for allowing me to sit on this Committee Hearing and talk about and more importantly to listen to the Witnesses Today and thank you to the witnesses taken the time to come and present your side of things. I also want to thank the congresswoman for the work she has done on something very important on the Central Coast in california, the work on the immigrant Family Protection actf obviously here we have a number of immigrants coming in contributing to the number one industry in the economy contributing to the culture ande it was unfortunate even mixed families were not benefits to the recipients and i hope we continue to push the issue especially with her leadership so i look forward to continuing to help her and be a part of that. We know the pandemic is taking a toll on everyone because the witnesses have highlighted, it isnt taking a toll on everyone equally. Congress has responded publicly i think we understand with the 2. 2 trillion terrorist act that provided payments, supplemental Unemployment Benefits and put in place certainin protections for renters and homeowners however we all recognize that more needs to be done. Yes we provide temporary relief that sorsort of college was, its temporary. It preserved the economy but its been highlighted today if left out a number of those that continue to contribute to the economy and wee should be lookig at ways beyond just returning to where we were. We can take this opportunity to create a more equitable economy by expanding and providing a more visibly and social safety net and being better prepared. One of the ways we tried to do this is looking at housing and it can prevent a number of people from continuing with their lives inn this time. Other protections have been put in i place but there needs to be more when it comes to rental assistance and families so we must confront an issue of housing supply not just rental assistance but housing supply is we cant do through the tax code and programs like lowincome housing tax credits and so id like to addresso this question o mthe professor. I want you to talk about the availability of Affordable Housing on how it can be a challenge for families in the compounds of their challenges they are facing at this time during the pandemic and other areas like here on the Central Coast. Thank you for that question. Housing is for the vast majority the single biggest part ofe ther budget. Its the lack of supply of Affordable Housing has been a longstanding problem that especially in this situation to explore it wasnt delivering benefits for everyone and in particular it can lead to challenges and lack of access to jobs and schools and Educational Opportunities so we need to do a lot more to tackle housing. We have a fraction of people that are eligible for assistance more on the demand side and the supplyside. We need to create new jobs coming out of the crisis. We can think about doing it with the crisis climate as well and with regards to the physical infrastructure we dont have enoughor Affordable Housing. Wthey dont have clean water still to this day including in flint michigan people have these National Needs so thank you for drawing attention to the issue and i hope we take seriously we are doing far more than we are tore address housing burdens in this country. I would also like to give a shout out to the representative for her efforts when it comes to the lowincome housing tax credit thank you for that as well. Sticking with you, professor, the Multiplier Effect i think its interesting how weve seen it a but obviously with lowincome individuals and families that hasnt been the case. Can you address the Multiplier Effect . Absolutely. Its there and if you give people more of a surety, it will be more. Is mr. Ferguson with us. We have heard from all the witnesses. Thank you for participating. Mr. Chairman, i am online. Im going to recognize you for five minutes. First i would like for unanimous consent to enter the written colleague consent of my colleagues who couldnt be here and there is a letter to the treasury he would like entered into the record as well i would ask unanimous consent. Thank you for holding this hearing. I look at where we are in the country right now and im starting to see some differences between different parts of the country that are opening up and those that are not and i look at whats happening here in georgia and its Pretty Amazing to see the rebound in the economy. Ive had the pleasure of going out and touring my district this past weekend. One of the cities i went to see that is completely dependent on tourism told me that sales tax revenue for their city for the entire year was only off thousand dollars from the same period last year which i think is remarkable and i think it shows when the economy opens up and people can go about their wanormal business. Iat we are seeing here is a rebound in the economy. We still have tremendous capacity in the Healthcare Systems to be able to take care of individuals that they too go into the hospitals and i think what we have done here is what they set out to do which is to see th the curve of bounds they didnt overwhelm the hospitals. Its about slowing the spread of the virus and i think weveer de that. Now i think that its time to return dignity to peoples lives and lets start rebuilding this Great American economy. With that being said i think thereve been some good ideas discussed. We need to be innovative in the tax code not just in the c short term but as we need to look ahead at what the economy will be. One of the areas we all agree on we have to protect American Intellectual property if they want to make sure it is the backbone of those are going to need to the Manufacturing Processes whether it is in genetics or traditional manufacturing so the thing i would like to ask you is do you think it would be advantageous to consider and make repatriating intellectual property possible and more advantageous . This is a pretty good tax policy question. There were two things that may impact the intellectual property and lawmakers may want to visit that at some point in the future though it may not be appropriate in the pandemic setting. First the jobs act scheduled for treatment of intellectual property to go from being an expert in to open up to the first tier starting in 2021 they dont think there was a justification. The downside is to reduce the investment in the United States and the amount they would have over a several lawmaker so the d address that if they are concerned about the Property Investment in the second is the treatment of intellectual Property Income overseas. It didnt change the treatment through the tangible while income and treatment of the staff here. Those provisions were meant to lower the Playing Field during the transaction. Over the past couple of years i think the lawmakers could begin to address those that may improve the effectiveness of the provision. And if she we talked about a whole lot of is access to broadband in Rural Communities. They have a big opportunity right nowow to showcase a. There is great advantages to hiring folks in the rural areas. The problem is in this economy they dont have access to broadband so thinking about not only how to we expand broadband and what are the tax policies needed to help the private sector invest smartly but also think of you have any ideas or suggestions you think would be helpful if you have a tax Credit System that favored Rural Communities as opposed to urban. The time is expired. If you could get back to mr. Ferguson in writing on that and certainly an issue shared by all members of congress and the need has been shown with the reliance on telemedicine in the pandemic and distance learning. Thank you for raising that. That concludes all of the questions and i would like to thank the witnesses for joining us today. Please be advised members have two weeks to submit written questions to be answered later in writing and those can be made part of the formal hearing record. Thank you all it was a great hearing and with that, the subcommittee stands adjourned