Provider. Host this week on the communicators we are pleased to be joined by fcc commissioner michael oreilly, one of three republicans on the commission and our guest reporter this week is Margaret Harding magill of axials. Commissioner oreilly, last couple of months have been a challenge for everybody but especially for the communication industry. What has changed . Guest everyone is faced with different difficult circumstances from the covid pandemic. The Communication Network as a whole seems to be Holding Quite well. I dont like to promise anything or congratulate anybody too early but we will have to see if things hold but im pretty impressed with the way things are now. Everyones lives have been thrown in the air. Im being interviewed for my bedroom and yesterday i was in the nursery and i did a press conference from the girls room in the basement with toys everywhere. Everyones world is in a people and facing trouble and that is why most people have more difficult circumstances than i do. We are living through this together. Host is this a permanent change in our lives . Guest i dont know about that and i will have to defer to Health Experts in the space but some of the connectivity issues more of the work from home issues and certainly conferences being done through this medium is more likely to increase over time and i would not say its the new normal but a lot more this way than returning fully to the old style, in my opinion be one if this is a continuing trend what is the fccs role in this . Guest it depends on what service we are talking about. From the more practical sense we have a big new building we are building and getting ready to move into and its use will be much different than the past. We did an open meeting yesterday via the technology we are able to use with videoconferencing and it went smoothly. You start to venture out and wonder how much you have to be physically in the fcc and what does it mean and what policy in general Going Forward we certainly have a role in these issues. Making sure consumers are protected and make sure the networks are running well but some of the pieces depending on how or what we are talking about so its fine lines there. Host lets bring in Margaret Harding magill into this conversation. Hello peter, thank you, commissioner. They launched a keep americans connected pledge with the idea that broadband providers would promise not to cut off americans who cant pay for their Internet Service because of the coronavirus pandemic. That pledge expires june 30. You think the fcc needs to extend it . Guest i refer to the chairman. He works hard to get it established and over 700 companies have agreed to the pledge and they i have heard some parties its become difficult on the revenue side for them to hold the pledge Going Forward but we will have to see. I will take my cues from the chairman and where he wants to go with it. Im mindful of what it means for americans there facing difficulties Going Forward and the tension of how long can you stretch the inevitability and the back season to the get exonerated and were not just talking about penalty fees but the rates themselves and is that money not going to be collected Going Forward or are we talking about a situation that is two more months or 18 months. Those things all matter but ill take my cues from the chairman on this one back have you been able to track how effective the pledge has been for customers that are staying online or new customers and im curious what kind of differences the pledge has made. Guest in fairness i dont have a lot of data points that i normally would and regular setting. I have had anecdotal evidence suggesting its been beneficial and you see the connectivity issues that americans are facing in their daily lives and entertainment side and on the business side. We had good successes in terms of people reaching out and ive had some complaints in terms of the pledge and that is something that the chairman will, im sure it referred to as appropriate to the Enforcement Bureau if needed to see if they are living up to their obligations and commitments they made to the commission and the public at large. This is an opportunity to at some point there will be Lessons Learned of how this works and whether there are ways we could have made it more efficiently but were struggling through this as everyone else is at this time. What complaints have you heard . Guest i think people are, you know, they said they been turned off unexpectedly and this provider did this or that and then i get those not infrequent to have the emails to my account on some of those turn into legitimate issues and of the many years i worked at the commission and others have turn out not to be there were other problems with why they got disconnected and it wasnt a billing issue but a Network Issue and they thought provider had so [inaudible] we will have to see if anything materializes there. I guess on the complete front do you think the fcc to change at all how it is tracking, complaints or how effective but it sounds like its more anecdotal and do you think there should be more transparency with a database of some sort . Guest i would think im more at the anecdotal level if i were at my office and able to talk to the Commission Staff in a regular. Everyone is scattered throughout washington dc region and we have some folks in gettysburg that do work there and handle complaint process there and so that is different than normal and im saying im getting some of that anecdotally rather than and im sure the chairman has much more efficient mechanism and able to rely on data from those different folks. I tried to as necessary let staff do the hard work that has been after them but also leave them alone a little bit because everyone has issues and i have childcare issues as you can imagine that monopolize my time so its balancing life and work at the same time so ive tried to be more respectful if i can. These are not issues that will go away and we do need to look at things that will be from Lessons Learned whenever we get to a more stable point. Host commissioner oreilly, hazlitt covid19 crisis put more urgency into developing 5g . Guest yes and no. We have already had a very aggressive interest and a schedule and agenda to deploy 5g and provide the environment for private carriers to extend their networks and build out the new revolutionary, what we are expecting from 5g so the expectations are there and this provides an opportunity to do so and the same thing on the cyber side. In a bigger perspective it does highlight the importance of broadband and i had been critiqued in terms of how my views towards broadband and ive always said its incredibly idle to individuals and i have not been willing to do the work but ive said so much more on and i spent so much time trying and working hard to get broadband out to all americans so 5g wireless which i referred to as wireless fiber or some call it wireless broadband but that will be a piece of our solution Going Forward, in my mind. There is the idea of getting fiber into everyones home and not that is not in the cards so wireless will play a heavy role and everything in between. Host thomas johnson, general counsel at the federal commune occasions commission recently had an oped in the Washington Post about 5g and the headline 5g conspiracy theories threaten u. S. Recovery. What is the genesis of the story . Guest i have not talked to tom but i think the genesis comes from a number of individuals who have, like in 5g, have a number of Health Concerns that arent realistic or accurate. The bogeyman of what they think may come from 5g is the same ones we heard with 4g and 3g and everything before that. This would does not surprise me that there are a couple of folks in america and worldwide who shun technology and believe that there are nefarious purposes from what is being deployed and the latest time. We have to be cognizant of that we have been mindful of Health Issues at the commission. I worked hard to get a couple of items up in foreboding before or so we could have 5g deployed in dealing with the latency issues and Health Issues. I think it is something that will be beneficial to americans and lives within Health Standards from the experts which we are not, the fcc, rely on policy experts and number of Health Agencies and i think that is in a very respectful way and im sorry some visuals have a totally different perspective and there are activities in some of the threats that they have relayed is problematic. I would like to believe they were able to debate these issues in a thoughtful way versus some of the rhetoric i have seen but we will just have to play it o out. Host given the fact that broadband has become so vital to so many americans, especially in the last couple of months is there a chance that broadband will be a utility considered a utility . Guest i dont see that in the cards in the near future. It always depends on what the Political Landscape look like in washington dc. When you say utility there are a lot of meetings that go with that. Someone who wants to regulate the rates or someone who wants to mandate that there be one provider per community when in many communities there are a number of different existing providers and competition drives down price. I dont know exactly what that word means but if youre heading towards a Power Company or a water company, we have far surpassed that in the past those and for most americans. There are certainly places where one provider is the best we can get and we work hard to subsidize a number of those areas so we can serve someone in those areas but one of my Top Priorities during my time at the commission so i dont believe we are heading in that universe but i think the market is much more resilient and more responsive and that is why you see the benefits i talked about earlier in terms of how our network is handled to traffic the increases and how its been diverse traffic, its not just in urban centers because we all went to many of us went to our jobs in downtown and now we are fightint distributed in the network can handle that. They can handle the increases and traffic overall so that is respectful and appreciated, in my opinion for all the work weve done, not just the issue of Net Neutrality but it is a tenure effort to make sure that good policy was enacted and did not stifle innovation. There were hiccups along the way with Net Neutrality being one of them. Very problematic. But most in general compared to other nations were in a much better situation in my opinion. Host Margaret Harding mcgi mcgill. On the performance of the networks we heard from companies and from their trade groups that their networks are performing well. What kind of work is the sec doing to validate that and to investigate on its own how that works . Guest we have a whole team that looks at these issues and the data points and im sure, we will have other points Going Forward as we examine Lessons Learned and what it means and i have heard from the chairman that has been positive data points in terms of what networks has responded to the increases so i think that is a testament to how well we have been willing to have good policy and lead to the United States and that should be a feather in our cap compared to other nations around the world. Regardless of the performance, one big issue has been people who dont have access to broadband and that is especially important during children who need to do their schoolwork virtually. Given that some schools may rely on some form of remote schoolwork in the fall what can the fcc do in the coming months to ensure that children have the access and the devices they need to do school from home . Guest it is a huge issue and it starts, not just education, but it is how we get broadband to those areas that are toughest to serve and how do we make sure those consumers that dont have it today get it and those that want it can have broadband. My focus has been in terms of broadband supplement so people spend time on a ford ability and a number of competitors but i dont care about those folks with no competitors. They still rely on dialogue. Im try weve done some really good work on that and will take time we will have it is not easy to get to the hardest part of our nation but to your point when it comes to education there are limitations on what the fcc can do with the statutes that exist today and what programs can do legally and then the funding, how much money do we have and what are those that strings that come with those and i certainly appreciate some of the terms in the debate over Education Funding for technology and a number of providers in the past and a number of the advocates have shifted from it has to be five or two wireless is important and something i push for a long while that wireless will be our solution as part of this big problem that we have right now. I appreciate that that debate is maturing as i expected it once would. But it is or having this between now and the fall to be able to stand up to schools that may not open or reface a second wave i am mindful of that and give some limitations on what we can do with the commission and i know we will continue to work on this in the months ahead. This commission because of a program that [inaudible] theres been some discussion about could that be used to make sure that students connect from home and do you think that is something the fcc [inaudible] and if not, what concrete actions can be done in the next two months before School Starts back up again . Guest that is an issue for congress to decide and the statute is quite limiting. It references something i worked on when i was younger and it says classrooms. If we start to view every persons home, now standing our experiences and there are no limitations to the statute and a means wherever you are landing can be funded and that is a problem in my opinion because it may be that Congress Wants to go there now but thats their option and they had that debate and they can appropriate money and do the things i used to recommend when i worked in there for many years so that is something they need to consider and something i cant overlook because i may agree or disagree with the policy decision but you cant just ignore a statute and thats not how it works in my business. It sounds like you want to see some action from congress and maybe there is not a time that the fcc can do. Guest im not advocating for congress to do something and that is up to them and they are the elected representatives of america. I dont try to tell them what to do but i try to have the responsibility to be opposite. They tell me what to do great i think our hands are tied in some regards where people think we can have classrooms to be everywhere paid the chairman has been taxable in number of covid policy changes that we have done in the last few months but there are limitations. Whether Congress Changes those are not are certainly up to th them. Host commissioner oreilly, could you please explain section 230 of the committee occasions act and what the president has signed as an executive order in your view on that. Guest i dont think i can fully go through that in the time we have for this program but it is a legal liability standard in statute, created in 1996 act that governs the activity online and those that offer services and those that benefit from the services. From the mom and pop shop to the big provider that you can imagine. It provides them certainty in terms of their liability for what is said over the network or what is portrayed and that is something that has been a hallmark for 25 years and the executive order you referenced comes from the president and ive had an opportunity to read it a couple times and i sympathize with his point in terms of ive made the argument, both here and elsewhere, that the president has the full right to review any statute as part of his obligation to proposed changes and that was part of my old job. The president proposes, congress disposes. That was his right to examine every statute. Thats completely consistent. I have been concerned as a conservative that my fellow conservatives have been stifled or their words are being limited on certain tech platforms. Thats pretty problematic and there are there are outstanding data points and ample evidence for that to be the case. It does not mean that happening on the other side of the aisle as well but it is definitely concerned that something is fresh in their mind and happening pretty regularly from my conversations with folks. That is problematic. To what we do about that is a different storyboard that gets into the issue that ive had concerns about. What are the limitations of the statute . Did congress provide its authority to act for the president s or is it intentional authority or was it accidental authority or no authority . That is something important. What would the president like to see happen . The fcc to find certain components of the 230 statute and what is the scope and how it is being handled and whether we can limit or provide appropriate limitations if necessary. I think we have to start with jurisdiction and First Amendment and then you get into what are the first moment if we go down this route and what would happen if we did x, y or z and what does it mean for the future of the internet and communications from a Digital Communications and ip traffic. I havent taken a position because i have to do my homework. That is what people expect of a regulator, someone who has a history of doing the heavy lifting on policy, digging themselves into the weeds of someone who has a background of writing statute that is what you expect from me and thats what im doing right now. I give my concerns and now i am in the process of conducting the heavy lifting and talking to knowledgeable people and i want to reach out to those that wrote the statute and those that are continuing to weigh in on the matter. Host your democratic colleagues on the Commission Said that an executive order that would turn the federal Communications Commission into the president s Speech Police is not the answer. Guest while, her, i would agree with but i dont know if that does this. I will do the heavy lifting before making a comment or trying to make an assertion because is that where the effect then i could see her point but i dont think that you can make this assertion now. I dont think anyone can rightfully, especially since we dont have a recommendation from the administration on what the petition would look like. I will certainly advocate as a chairman whenever, if so, comes forward and whatever document comes forward and would put it out for Public Notice and let all newcomers take shots and applaud what they see as appropriate in the document. From there we can see it there is something we do or not do and we will explore all those issues we need to, thorny issues, that are so important in our democracy. Host Margaret Harding gail of axios. One issue that has come up with the executor border is what authority does the fcc have in this area to enforce or regulate or define section 230 and you have experience on this bill. Do you believe congress intended to give the fcc authority here . Guest i think that is what i made the point of whether intentionally they gave us authority or accidentally gave us authority. Im exploring that and want to talk to knowledgeable people about the matter because my memory and i was there when a number of these deals were struck and it is funny because i remember those conversations better than again the conversation i had yesterday with my wife. I remember those votes we had on the things in the basement of the capital in the conference negotiation with my old boss and the house managers with quite a different opinion than the Senate Managers when we went to conference on the bill. My memory is good on those things and im not sure i have deep reservations that they provided intentional authority for this matter but i want to listen to people and see if other memories are different than mine. There were not many people in the room. Some are no longer with us and in society and others have moved on and maybe do not focus on this matter. We want to hear from those who have a voice in this matter. Sometimes the language is not as clear as it could be and provides an opportunity for the commission to act given its placement in statute and General Authority and ive said this in the past, ive given speeches on this as a matter of fact, congress does itself better justice if it writes tighter statutes and some of these things, you know, ive been through the sausage making process and its a difficult one and there are tradeoffs in the Conference Committee and sometimes language is as tight as you would have liked it and i respect them. Thats why i will do Due Diligence on the statute itself for jurisdictional issues. I do not believe its the right of the agency to read into the statute authority that is not there, authority that in terms of intention there arent a lot of people there and still serving congress at the time. Weve got to play those cards out and see where this goes. Part of that will be putting this out for comment and seeing where the experts, not only congress, not only in dc but throughout in terms of there will be a lot of academia that has points as well. The jurisdiction question is obviously an important one but theres also the philosophical question of what the fccs role should be here. Youve spent a strong and vocal supporter of the First Amendments. Do you believe that the fcc should be involved or in regulating or in defining Online Platforms like facebook and twitter when it comes to monitoring the content . Guest in general i believe section 230 has functioned as intended, therefore has been incredibly beneficial but Good Congress or could the fcc put guardrails auto it and narrow it to make it more functional and therefore not provide wideopen opportunities for the abuses weve seen in marketplace . I certainly that is something to explore and what you expect from a wide open debate we are about to have. I think there are both parts. It has been beneficial and could be improved . I think there are sound arguments for that. Is it my response ability or other agencies, those debates will be had in the coming mont months. I think that gets us into the point that commissioner [inaudible] made is that the fcc should not be the Speech Police but how do you draw that line as we narrow the scope of what this productions provide . Guest i think i just said you can put guardrails if necessary but if necessary you can put guardrails on 230 and it doesnt mean thats for congress who they would like to have see that happen. You could set up different structures and for nearly 20 years you can have it at either an agency as the fcc so you follow the jurisdiction issue but it could be at the fcc or you could set up and require boards and Different Things to look at these things. There are a lot of different ideas when people want to go down these packs. Im not saying that we should and im just saying that there are different options if that becomes necessary in the debate plays out that way. [inaudible conversations] host i apologize, margit we are out of time for it i want to get to the commissioner that you are being renominated next week. Would that be for another fiveyear term and do you see any landmines ahead . Guest i been renominated and this is part of the confirmation process but i have a hearing next week and am grateful for the committee for holding that hearing. Theres always landmines in a nomination process, notwithstanding fcc commissioner itself but any nominee and its a tough process. I lived through it as a staffer in different nominees so we will just have to see if it plays out and if it was meant to be, it will be. Host michael oreilly, one of three Republican Federal Committee occasions commissioners and Margaret Harding magill of axios. She covers tech for that publication. Thank you both for being on the communicators. Thank you, peter. Cspan has unfiltered coverage of congress, the white house, the Supreme Court and publicpolicy events. You can watch all of cspan Public Affairs programming on television, online or listen on our free radio app and be a part of the National Conversation through daleys Washington Journal Program or through our social media feeds. Cspan, created by americas Cable Television company as a Public Service and brought to you today by your television provider. This november we will take back the house. We will hold the senate and we will keep the white house. President trump returns to the campaign trail saturday for a rally in tulsa. Watch our live coverage starting at 8 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan, ondemand on cspan. Org or listen on the go with the free cspan radio app. The House Education Committee holds a hearing on budget cuts amid the coronavirus. Educators and advocates testify about the shortfalls and how the outbreak is causing achievement gaps, especially for vulnerable students. We want to welcome everyone and note a quorum is president and the committee is meeting for hearing to hear testimony on quote, budget cuts and loss learning assessing the impact to covid19 on Public Education and this is a completely virtual hearing and ask all microphones remember and witnesses participating remotely be kept muted as a general rule to avoid unnecessary background noise. Numbers and witnesses will be responsible or automating themselves when they are recognized to speak or when they wish to be recognized read further, pursuant to House Resolution 965