Transcripts For CSPAN2 Books About American Presidents 20240712

Booktv. Org. And no one book tv, were showing you some programs about u. S. President s. First this past february, lexus took talks about a biography of George Washington bridge offers her thoughts about why her book is different than other books on the same. She spoke with no times colonists in politics and prose bookstores in washington dc re read. I want to president ial history because the presidency and especially the one who it was it bill sora, who everyone pressured into it. Its really important that everyone understands him in the presidency. But i think the biographies are alienating those in the way that they their visual presentations, there title some of the way they are written. So i really wanted it the reader to be like that if they have never read a president ial biography, they had everything that they needed at the beginning of the book and then at the beginning of the section come to equip them to feel they are ready the experts. I really did think a lot about my reader then a part of it was a washington has been called in adams family theories editor. Edit the paper. They called him vanilla once to my face. And i think that is well for small items you cant compare from there too much fun. Thats why there letters survived in the new that predict. Alexis you can break him out of the small. He can be fun and interesting. You have to have fun with him as the whole different thing. I organized the material in my head is always trying to make sure that i got things across. Then decided to be vulnerable and charged with everyone. I do think there are certain things to help you understand. I can tell you in sentence, for example the beginning of the resolution. A less battles than he won. What are we talking about the battle season on the frontlines. His intense the most of the time but is not out there. Why are we wasting time about it. It is a supported to me that you understand something thats usually just a sentence but is lost in the paragraph. The mark went on for a long time. We had one general and the british had many generals. I really present you with a chart at the beginning of that check section and listen to George Washington and then all of these other guys pretty good at it and you take that knowledge with you. I just wanted you to have those. I dont want my reader to have the longest answer ever. I dont expect you to turn around and give a really long talk about this. I want to be really excited about it and turnaround and talk about it like at a cocktail party. I will say that it would like half the book on my train ride back home. And so my wife i was reading this book. And i said did you know that washington owned dogs. And she said i did not know that. And chiefly, i really wanted to talk to you about these facts about washington predict. Alexis is ported to know that he loved dogs. You have to know that it was silly enough to cause dogs and sweet. And you need that it makes him like you imagine him as ridiculous. We also need details for another things like you cant just know that how many people he owned. Anything to survive. You need to know that he assaulted his slaves. This was really me just give you every detail i can leave out of it. Because this book this much to did mystify him placed him in the context of his relationships. Because he is a model for the presidency, what kind of almost demystify it in the way in which the book unlike those more traditional biographies, feel like theyre more about roman empires. Jamelle and this is a book about a president. Its just a dude that we chose. Thank it is interesting. Youre always sure to emphasize to us, not just the people around him, that washington doesnt uncertain person pretty as someone that has goals and aims but also thing i had in my mind was danny glover and legal weapons. His tool for the ship. He just doesnt want to do anymore. Alexis we think of the founders as ill be in in agreement at the same time they were understanding what they are doing. They set out with all of the details worked out. Thats just not true. Washington was doing the best he could. Jamelle just getting into his head about how anderson himself doing the job. Alexis this humanizes him to give us comfort in that missing is in some ways. Jamelle he was a slave owner. Sort of one of the overriding identities of this entire life. Alexis means and it was his business. Jamelle he was poor and his entire life. Was concerned about what is going to how he is going to do in feed and house of the people he owned. In the what weather were going to do for him. I think at the end, washington sort of would also say that, yea im going to free my slaves at one point but he never really acted on it. I wonder if he could talk about or you can talk about his ambivalence there. It is unwillingness to take the extra stuff. Because you make note, that here in virginia, some others did take the extra step. Alexis i also that this was something that biographers pulling the silver on us. Thing is simple to them because it is hard to repair someone. Its hard to do that if you cant see him having this beautiful realization. Washington begins to have, not a change of heart but a change of priorities during the revolution. It means different people. The argument is sometimes enslaved and free black men fought. During the revolution. This would change his mind. No he did not want that. He is really reluctant about it. Can billy lee, his righthand man. Hes a rep. Of everyone rather than the exception. What i wanted to do have the present. His is present in his mind. Its important as anything else. What is he concerned about at mount vernon. His force labor force. To understand his anxieties and priorities, has to be there the whole time. The materials are. I wanted this motion bunch of micro histories and one biography. It is understanding why he ultimately did the thing that he did. He could have sold his land. We called him them planters. I think that is miss leading. Their plantation owners. And forced labor. And they were all cash for. But they had landed. No one had more land than George Washington pretty had gain a ton of really prochoice land during the french and indian war when he fought for the british. It wouldve happily continued to do. We might be bridges subjects, and they just given him the promotion of the wanted. [laughter]. He was at reluctant rebel. Not some idealist. So i think that is important to think about the things that he is saying not quite true. He thing i dont have the money, cant do this, you should or he could have if he really wanted to. He wanted to be the person that others thought he could have. And he had examples for there were people in virginia who did this and had likely under duress because of their slave masters were terrified of this. Lets talk about how to set up a move for martha. He left her pass the buck to her in the letter this incredibly vulnerable position. He just didnt want to see and be responsible for her which was the separation of families forever. Jamelle how many people were enslaved in mount vernon. Alexis it fluctuated. Martha had two children from her previous marriage. They had over hundred and 30 enslaved people. Washington inherited 11 and number as well because he purchased him and the other weird thing is it was a, enslaved man was told him. Like it was a like a fine him all taken. Like he went to regimented, he went with them with the explicit purpose and by people. The numbers while the hundred 14 by the time he got here. Jamelle the thing for me writing about washington is a slave owner, also most of the people he self most of his life work enslaved people. When i went up there and they talked about it in those terms there, most people jeffersons, most of the time the more people whom he enslaved. Never me radically changes the way i think about these men. And how they mustve thought about themselves. It wasnt a salon everyday. Would like all their buddies. Alexis ben franklin. Jamelle was set up to sundown most days, seeing the people you enslaved. Thinking about them when you had to discipline. Just an observation. Alexis i think theres something worthwhile about thinking about that in talking about it. People talk about how it was impressive of how he thought about all of these inventions. To maximize profits and labor, to make sure he was applying that. We do think of them is sort of like doing important work all the time. They were drama queens and messy and they were also scroll the themselves to be better. Washington would hang out with his wife and make is like people robust and race. Thats what he did on sunday. I also want to know that he went to church sometimes but i also know he did that. Over the past 20 years, over 300 books and watch them at any time, booktv. Org and searching George Washington. I books. Im nextdoor look at u. S. President s as historian nancy eisenberg, the coauthor of a new a biography of john and John Quincy Adams. His a portion of her talk from institutions Historical Society in may of 2019. John adams was a disciple of the light meant as much is jefferson. At the heart of this revolutionary movement was the impulse to unmask superstition like the divine right of kings. And independence of thought. John adams held that a desire for things to be found in every part. They needed an audience. The ruling you needed the masses to worship the riches and their money. This is why he identified the danger of the cult of personality. It is when the personality of the leader is equated with the nation. Nancy the worship title or places we the people, as the sole of the body of politics. Adams watch the cult up close and personal. First when he was in france. Franklin seduced the educated leads as americas first rock star. Adams understood the desire among human beings to be seen and loved. He zoomed in on the force of spectator ship. There was the opposite. The fear of obscurity, of insignificance. Long before every american wants 15 minutes of fame, adams was in place of danger of ventilation. At the center of his constitutional theory. What glittered in the eyes of men and women was often most super visual of dazzling distractions. Kate explained the first riches beauty. Its societies invariably divided people into classes. The Political Parties used the same method emarketing candidates. An attractive appearance in a prominent name in a glamorous reputation. That wasnt enough, flattering quackery were his delight, would keep supporters mesmerized. John times understood, the politics was a good con game as far back as 1790. His point was his impulses a marginal government. Republican democracies alike. Society rewards ambition cannot emerge or avert the mad scramble for public recognition. But he went further. Buddhist psychology was possible for the sham worship of the lesser few. Since the majority of people would never take to the stage, they lived vicariously through their idols. By curious was his word. What he was saying is that the people felt a special kind of something with a powerful rated wasnt a corrupt politician, roden to office on the slated reputation. It was the voters live for the show. We document these things for book. Not selectively braun suit simply resonate to the current political scene. A lot of people think i forget we started researching this book long before the current political scene. Americans tell themselves the value independent thinking and the alignment sense of that phrase. But in fact, citizens still swoon of the rich and famous. They join crowds cheering fans. Adams extrapolated from this to say the mob mentality is a dangerous sport contained within democracy. Incessanoften inflamed by the pn press pretty Party Organizers from Alexander Hamilton forwarded. I found a way to exploit imaginary bond between voters and their leaders. In the first president ial election, in 1788, and 89, Hamilton Beach work that southern electors withheld their votes for adam by writing rumor new englanders might steal the election from washington from hamiltons perspective, there could be only one king, one idolized star. Washingtons presidency borrows the trappings of loyalty. The chief executive in a grand mansion and he rode in a lab finished carried and held intimate receptions for the capital he leads. He made two grand national tours. The king of england, his birthday was a holiday, a national holiday. Washingtons image was known to all. Eight visiting dignitaries remarked that americans kept portraits of washington in their homes much like the russians worshiped icons of the saints. Now adams cleverly dissected the cult of washington. He used his skill to explain the worship of washington. The generals first and most important trait, was emphasized his handsome face. And next, is tall stature. He was 6foot three. Delete breeding. There was evidence hit his elegant form. His graceful movements and his large state. Washington was a man of few words. Adams joked that his fellow virginians adore him. Because among plantar elites, the geese are all swans. Image matters more than genius. Adam knew this. We know it to be as true as well. Voters take manufactured qualities and signs of innate character. Clouds of course, suffered comparison to washington. He acquired the nesting again of his tendency read label started while Vice President and is used in the election of 1800. Political gamesmanship became for six like for the time the second adams entered the president ial contest. In 1924, when then secretary of state, John Quincy Adams was seeking the presidency, a cartoon captured the first brace socalled. To this day, and term of president ial horserace. This is relevant because tonight, is the kentucky derby. In the cartoon, John Quincy Adams is head of the george and William Crawford and while Andrew Jackson, dressed in his military uniform, southern telling coming up fast. All john adams stands at the front of the crowd cheering on his own. While spectators place wagers on the outcomes. This is democracy at its worst. A spectacle. The Election Campaign is not about philosophies or policies by gamble. The excitement of the race is what matters most. In 1828, when the second president adams wants election to jackson, he found himself not only running against national hero, but it is far better organized protests and party machine. The new yorker, Martin Van Buren was jacksons lectionary guru pretty pulling on the earlier new yorker hamiltons playbook. Jacksons admirers tried to remove him into the air of the noble washington but the effort failed. Because jackson was known to be impulsive and blustering and a mini concert, autocratic. The general was promoted with the lavished campaign biography. The first of its kind. His rash arbitrary behavior was recast as a cardinal virtue. That is, he exhibited frontier baldness and manly bigger. And while the incumbent adams was overly cerebral. There was something even arthur at work here. John quincy adams concluded jacksons followers were really and this is in his words and very important. Champions of executive power. Jacksonian democracy was in fact a warrior conduct. Democracy was a smokescreen expansion drove politics pretty slaveholders wanted slavery to expand to the pacific. Behind screen the union of planet speculators and southern slaveholders. John quincy adams was elected to congress in 1830 after his one term presidency ended. It was an unusual move. Never to be repeated. He remained in the house until he died in his desk in 1948. Parties ruled. In the arts of party drilling, as he called it was because a monetary. Party members became riotous. The sanctimonious called to liberty, allowing southern democrats to purchase silvery support for slavery for free men of the north. What could be a greater irony. Jackson the head of the Democratic Party, jeffersons supposedly small government party. It was now party of executive power. Election. Frederick John Quincy Adams is a grisly error. Men possible with child ritual of the royal european courts we had so long served as a diplomat. Somehow like his father before him, he was a secret promoter of monarchy. The sad truth is this. The personality could hide all sins. Just the truth and voters often didnt care. For John Quincy Adams, what happened was slaveholding and taken out of the presidency. Along with the illusion what textbooks call jacksonian democracy. Weve opened up our archives look at other programs about u. S. President s. No former second Lady Lynn Cheney and his is the life of James Madison. She was joining conversation bike for Vice President , cheney at the nixon president ial library in 2014. He was the architect of the constitution. The architect of the bill of rights trading he was crucial to the establishment of the government under the constitution. He was president during the first award under the constitution. And he performed if not magnificently in all of those jobs, at least very well. As at the end of his presidency, john adams it was kind of us our figure. Not given to making compliments easily. If john that James Madison administration and covered itself and more glory than any of his predecessors. Theres a great complement because his predecessors are washington, jefferson and adams himself. I do think he is been underappreciated and it has been really so much fun. And oh five years of labor doesnt sound like so much fun but discovering things and being able to put into a form that help would reach a wide audience. And as the book is called, reconsidering James Madisons life. Which was the most important contribution. They were enormous obviously but if one, he just had to pick one, what would it be. It would have to be the constitution. I think he was a genius. And the reason is as he was the kind of genius he had is that he was able to break through conventional thinking. When everybody else was thinking one way, madison didnt necessarily accept it. He would think of other possibilities. And he did that in the case of the constitution and in the case of establishing a Great Republic which is what we are. The conventional wisdom was that you can have a Great Republic. Great republic where people voted for representatives for themselves. And rep. Government. That it would be to use over a long and vast time. Annette would fall apart unless you had monarchial power, a king or a monarch at the center. Able to become a pacifist that was the rationale for the constitution produced in philadelphia. It was his genius to see through what everyone else believed time and again and to transform the world by doing it. You talk about his relationship with the other founders, George Washington for example. We think sometimes of the founders as a sort of sitting around having a polite conversation and all of them having the greater good in mind at all times. Its much more interesting to realize them as they were which was people who firmly believe in their point of view and were willing to fight to see it succeed. In the beginning madison was wanting washingtons chief lieutenant. When the first government under the constitution began, this will be familiar to any of you in politics, washington has an aide, his inaugural address, the aide produced a 72 page disaster. Washington wrote to madison and asked him, please come to mount vernon and help. Madison did and he wrote washingtons inaugural address. He did a very good job of it. After washington delivered the address, madison, who was the leader of the congress wrote the congresss response to madison. Thank you, you laugh, even though i got it wrong. He wrote the congresss response to the inaugural address. Washington at this time thought madison was so good at this time he asked madison to right abyou write washingtons reply. [laughter] im not sure theres been another time in history when one man has been so influential at the beginning of the administration the way madison was in the beginning with washington. As you talk about the Constitutional Convention obviously there will battles over various provisions in the constitution. We ended up with article 1, ab it took a long time many hours and days of work to put it all together. Can you side the specific compromise and most important provision that they were argued about and ultimately able to resolve. It was the thing we all learned in history books about the big states and the small states. And of course the big states wanted states to be represented proportionately according to the population. The small state one of the states to be represented as states and we all know the compromise. They got representative states in the senate and proportionately in the house. Madison was appalled at that. He really thought there should be proportionate representation across the board. He had gone into the Constitutional Convention thinking that the great threat to the republic where the states. He called them the evil state because they had been so irresponsible under the articles of confederation repressing religious freedom churning out money, Rhode Islanders especially guilty was called rhode abrogue island. This is what rhode island did passing laws that made it necessary for merchants to accept that depreciated money for debts that had been incurred. Maybe you are getting paid off at a penny on the dollar. The states were taxing one another, oppressing one another actually. They were conducting their own Foreign Policy. Madison thought the states needed to be controlled and when it turned out that the compromise to have the states represented as states and not proportionally in the senate he was very disconsolate it took him a couple days to get around to accepting that. What conceivably made them think they needed a Vice President . [laughter] thats kind of an internal question, isnt it . [laughter] it had to do with the Electoral College. Every elector had to vote. They finally got to the Electoral College when they couldnt agree on anything else. The alternate at that point was to let the congress choose the president and just imagine how different our president s wouldve been if the congress was choosing. He wouldnt have Ronald Reagan. , well, nixon, i dont think he wouldve had nixon either. You wouldve had plenty of speakers of the house go on to become president. The Electoral College advocates two votes. Big states and small states, small states are worried that the big states will always elect the president. So to assuage their concern the deal was made that you could only cast one vote, one of those two vote someone from your own state the other had to be cast for somebody from another state, which would give small states a better chance. But then they started worrying, and youve all played this kind of game, if you want that one vote for your own guy and your own state to be really important you throw away the second vote. Expended on jim who doesnt have a chance. To prevent that, were finally getting to the answer, they invented the vice presidency. The idea was that the person who got the second highest number of votes would then become Vice President. That seems like a pretty good idea but then they started worrying, what was he to do . [laughter] its so interesting to see how this builds up they decided that he needed a job and that they would make him president of the senate. By the end of the Constitutional Convention there were two delegates who were so worried about the Vice President , creature of the executive branch, being president of the senate part of the legislative branch. About about his just violating the separation of power, two delegates aldrich gary and randolph of virginia two delegates, im sorry, specifically cited the vice presidency as reasons they wouldnt sign the constitution. They called it that dangerous office. So there you go. [laughter] during the course of his career in the terms of implementing the constitution would be the best way to describe it i guess, Alexander Hamilton became an important player in all of that. Can you talk about what was that led to their major disagreements and confrontation. First maybe its important to understand he and hamilton were not buddies exactly but they were friendly colleagues. They wrote the federalist papers together with a little help from john j. The story of writing the federalist papers, if you dont mind i will just a go right ahead. The story writing in the federalist papers are so interesting because it was done at such speed and such haste and that was explaining to a college audience and from colleges and universities in this area will appreciate that what madison did during one period of time during 40 days was equivalent of writing a 10 page paper every other day. You could do that, that doesnt seem impossible but the papers became immortal. Writing philosophy, writing politics, writing an effort to convince people to support the constitution at that breakneck speed the printer was putting the beginning parts of essays in the print before often before they were finished. So madison and hamilton respected one another until hamilton became secretary of the treasury under George Washington and began to make his financial plans clear. Madison was troubled from the beginning but he eventually particularly when the issue of establishing a National Bank came up he was deeply concerned. He didnt think a bank was a bad idea but at the Constitutional Convention, in fact, he said it was such a good idea that at the Constitutional Convention he had proposed giving the congress the power to grant charters, which is what you needed if you wanted to establish a bank. However, the Constitutional Convention turned that opportunity down stop congress didnt have that power and that was madisons problem. Hamilton was simply running roughshod over the strict number of powers that congress had been given. There was no power to grant charters and therefore madison thought you should not establish a bank. He lost the fight but he went on to kind of win the war i guess you would say. He established the first opposition Political Party. Parties didnt have any better reputation then that they do now. So its counterintuitive. It was against the conventional wisdom that said that parties were divisive, noisy, we didnt want them in the republic. Madison said yes we do. A government without opposition is a little more than a monarchy. He organized the first party in order to change the way defeat the way that hamilton was trying to defeat the government to make it so strong that madison thought it was something the constitution hadnt contemplated. By founding this Political Party leading and founding of it he managed to get jefferson elected president in 1800s and jefferson like madison was a small government guy. That was former second Lady Lynn Cheney on the life and politics of James Madison. In our look at u. S. President s is another former official in the george w. Bush administration in november 2015 karl rove appeared in our weekly Author Interview program after words to recount the president ial campaign of william mckinley. He is joined here in conversation by historian richard rukeyser. We have our two nominees and their two positions, how does each man campaign . How does mckinley campaign how does brian do it . First of all, brian has one problem he needs to deal with which is his gotten the support of the populist party but their price was they nominated their own Vice President ial running mate so he has this completed problem is got to somehow conciliate the populace. They got a million vote in 1892 he wants to take the democrats who voted for cleveland, put them with the populace who voted for general weaver and james weaver in 1892 and thereby sink the republicans. Hes got a democratic running mate and populace running mate and hes got to finesse the issue of how do i get populace running mate off the ticket in battleground states where i cant afford the vote to be split. He decides hes going to storm the country in a fashion thats never been done before. Hes gonna get on a train and campaign the country has three major trips he makes across the country. President ial confident candidates never do that. Is the first time its ever happened. Theres been occasions in previous elections where candidate michael on the road and go to a major ga our encampment or big gathering of some sort but they literally numbered the number of times they spoke on the road to less than a dozen. They had been sort of free Front Porch Campaign in 1888 Benjamin Harrison basically had about 80 speeches nobody had better done what brian did which was get on a train and go someplace and its an amazing testament to his courage and endurance. Most days until october 7 in august and september and until october 7 he is generally making his own train reservations writing in a common car grabbing a sandwich at a depot someplace and hoping that when he got to the end of the line somebody would pick him up and have a hotel reservation. He makes a trip kentucky come up to washington dc in late september and hes got a private railcar provided but sometimes hes just riding in the middle the head of the populace campaign. He writes his compatriots and jamming the debtor Democratic National committee senator jones of arkansas, james jones, he says youve got to get him a private railcar. I saw this with my own eyes. He said we took a late train to baltimore because he wanted them to be in a junction in delaware at 8 00 a. M. We waited until 2 00 a. M. To switch train. There were a handful of people there. You can kill them if you keep doing this to them. If you have a private car you can fall asleep in the car, be moved on to the train would pick him up in the middle of the night, he could wake up refreshed have a place to have his clothes, wash his face get a meal but until october 7 hes traveling by hook and by crook. So hes going everywhere, what does mckinley do . Mckinley is being pressed by hannah to go on the road because once panic sets in its unstoppable. The hannah is panicked. Now by late july early august we got a race on our hands and keeps pressuring mckinley youve got a go on the road. Mckinley says to him, i cant do that. If i go on the road, hes gonna get on a trapeze and im going to have to mimic him. I go on the road a bit on the road before. I know what its like. Hannah sends friends to go talk to him. He sends Charles E Dawes to go talk to him. He sends a friend my ricky herrick to go talk to him. Finally mckinley says, i got to think before i speak. What happens is people are already showing up in groups to see the major. So somebody and i think that somebody is mckinley says its make that my routine. Only lets get it organized. So these people dont simply show up on my doorstep and say, we are here to see you. Lets set it up so we know whos coming we invite the people we want to have come so its not just the people who want to volunteer to come but lets have them come if its a Critical Group from a critical state lets know that they are coming, have them send what they want to say in advance so we can edit it. Lets figure out what im going to say so have remarks each time i show up. We will have it met at the station take them under an arch to the Courthouse Square will have them form up there we will have bands in all kinds of entertainment to keep them occupied and when the moment comes when i finished meeting with the last delegation we know how long it takes them to march up market street, they can then come on along with the have organized program they can say what they want to say, i will say what, they will give me a gift, i will thank them for coming, if ive got time will shake up his hand. And we go to the next group. This becomes campaigning on an industrial scale. 750,000 people come to canton ohio. 100,000 people come in groups of varying sizes and its like a regimented thing. They show up the station go to the town square the women go shopping, the men pick up cigars, the merchants do well in town sometimes the Community Takes special groups and feed them at the tabernacle. They have appropriate drinks for the man. If youre what you get a beer and sandwich of your drive to get a cup of coffee and a sandwich. Its an industrial and scale its unified organized and delivered. He knows exactly what he wants to say. The messages tailored to that individual audience and repeated back in their hometown papers and repeated by them when they go home. I saw the major heres what he said. Which of these two men do you think address more people . Am convinced by the numbers that brian sees more people. The estimate is 2 million to 3 Million People attended his rallies. He would go everywhere and there were people. He attracted spectators. In mckinley attracted supporters. People went to see a targeted. It was targeted. He in essence created an army and his campaign was based around this principle. We want to create an army of people who will serve as surrogates and advocates. They organize. They organized everybody. They had groups for blacks and germans, they had women because some women could vote in the western states. The organized traveling salesman. The commercial club. Because these were people who traveled widely, spoke well and knew lots of people. Theres a big craze sweeping the country. Lots of young men were falling into it and it was a great excitement. They decided to tap it, bicycles. Tell us what happens on election day. On election day mckinley wins the northeast its not a single county in the northeast that goes for variety. Mckinley wins 75 of the vote. He takes all the critical battleground states he wins most of the critical battleground states in the midwest. He hoped to win nebraska and kansas and fails. He loses the rocky mount states. He loses the south as expected. All the states in the old confederacy fall to the democrats though several are close and the critical breakthrough is in the border states from delaware, maryland, West Virginia and kentucky where mckinley wins republicans had not won there in decades. He narrowly loses missouri where his chances are hurt by internal division between republicans. He sweeps oregon and nearly california and the west coast with 50 of the boat,vote. Were the consequences of that for the two party system . It brings into the Republican Party a faulty combination of immigrants and new voters particularly laborers which gives the republicans dominance for the next 36 years. Up to the depression. Up to the depression. Republicans hold the house for 26 36 years the white house for 28 in the senate for 30 and the only time they lose power is when they divided among themselves as they do in 1912. They hold more governors and more state legislatures than we do until today. The mayors in most major cities during this time i routinely republican, boston, new york, philadelphia, baltimore, cleveland, cincinnati, chicago, st. Louis, the republican mayors left and right because mckinley has created this new coalition of Industrial Workers and smalltown farmers who have their own farms in the traditional Small Business allies of the Republican Party as well as Union Veterans and becomes an Unstoppable Coalition to for over three decades. So you credit mckinley with real political creativity and judging foresight who since has time has been likened . Has there been anybody that consequential . I think fdr was he. He was a deliberately set out to blow the pylons under some of the republicans coalition. Blacks began to move into the Democratic Party under him. Jews who had become an element of the Republican Party after the 1896 campaign. The populist movement had a lot of very angry antisomatic voices a lot of the Jewish Voters in america became republican. He reached and got them back. A talent to a den republican in the aftermath of 1896 were drafted back into the democrats under roosevelt and began to drift back into the republicans after that. Anyone else besides fdr . Ronald reagan in his own way. Politics has changed but if what youre looking at is whos a strong principal leaders able to change politics i think that would be the two i would pick more than any else. Are watching booktv on cspan2 we are taking a look at all the programs about american president s. In august 2014 president ial historian Rick Perlstein appeared on cspan q a program to talk about the presidency between 1973 and 1976 this was a period when Richard Nixon resigned gerald ford assumed office and Ronald Reagan entered the National Political stage. The big story of the shift of american politics in the spirit of 73 to 1976 turned out to be that in this dark dark period, which is what we started out talking about when people are turning on their tvs watching watergate seeing the politicians they trusted some like mafia dons when we lost our first war in vietnam when we got our first inklings of what they called the energy shortage, which was shocking because people didnt even know energy was something there could be a shortage of. That something very what i found secretary was starting to happen and that people were beginning to think about america and how we could solve the problems. How we could call our leaders to account how we could create a Foreign Policy that wasnt involved in being the worlds policeman and getting to another vietnam. How we could conserve energy. There was kind of a struggle at the same time with the countervailing energy in American Life that people really didnt want to do the hard civic work of facing our problems and the Ronald Reagan road on that wave and began telling people that they didnt need to worry about any of these problems that watergate wasnt really a problem that the watergate abthe Energy Crisis was trumped up and that by the time the bicentennial which is kind of the ultimate chapter of the book, this very sort of traditional vision of patriotism was beginning to win out over this more stern sort of grownup version of patriotism in my interpretation. We are going to jump so we can get to when Ronald Reagan ran and 76 but before that, heres something you never see in this country and thats the president testifying before congress and this is gerald ford after the pardon which this wouldve been october 17, 1974. Wondered whether anybody had brought to your attention the fact that the constitution specifically states that even though somebody is impeached, that person shall nonetheless be liable to punishment according to law. I was fully cognizant of the fact that the president on resignation was accountable for any criminal charges. But i would like to say that the reason that i gave the pardon was not as to mr. Nixon himself, i repeat and i repeat with emphasis the purpose of the pardon was to try and get the United States, the congress, the president , and the American People focusing on the Serious Problems we have both at home and abroad. Thats riveting stuff. That so symbolic of the period im writing about. It symbolic of this poor guy gerald ford was this terrible luck. This is the guy whos the best athlete of any president weve ever had yet he somehow kind of depicted on tv by chevy chase as this physical bumbler because of a couple subsea mix. I say gerald ford was damned if he did and damned if he didnt. He so desperate to be seen as transparent, as open, as kind of transcending with darkness and close nature of the white house under Richard Nixon and he accepts the subpoena to testify about this pardon yet he looks so squarely. He looks like one of the bad guys weve seen in the summer before and the watergate hearings and instead of being celebrated for his openness, no one trusts him. Everyone assumes because everyones rotten, the public has no face in their institution, no faith in their leaders that this genial midwestern guy was enormous . He said some strong things about gerald ford, what you think of him . I think he was an honorable man doing the best he could an almost impossible situation. I think that he promised something he couldnt deliver. What he promised was an end to the vision. When he came the famous speech the Long National nightmare is over and it was just heralded by the pundits as most utopia. Almost utopian terms. Watergate is over we can turn the corner. Faced with the burdens of governments he basically looked just as squarely and sneaky as the last guy. Then in the bicentennial. 76. Right. You notice hes kind of ending his first term entering the general election against jimmy carter. He wrote in his diary after this wonderful celebration that people were very skeptical of whether america should even have or could have a joyous Birthday Party after all the problems weve been facing he says, well, jerry, i think weve healed america. This kind of belief we could somehow heal america and write our divisions and their problems off the books is always a promise that abits a big theme in my book. I want to go to the last chapter. Chapter 32, the end in question. What happens at the end . The New York Times says that Ronald Reagan is too old to roundtrip for president after he loses nomination 1976, they bid a do basically imply or not you have Ronald Reagan to kick around anymore. Elizabeth madrid did the same thing. She said something more complicated originally in the galleys i struck elizabeth truths quote because she pointed out to me quite generously, she actually said that a couple weeks before that speech and then she changed her mind after he gave his speech. Are you going to show the speech . I want you to describe it we are going to show you several pieces of video. The first one is when gerald ford is calling Ronald Reagan to the podium. This is kansas city 1976 at this stage whats happening . Ronald reagan has made this underdog challenge to gerald ford and this was really the last convention which the outcome was not predetermined. No one knew who was gonna win the convention. It was quite possible Ronald Reagan could run away with an upset and become the nominee in 1976. He probably wouldve lost to jimmy carter and history wouldve turned out to philly. Basically his people have done a good enough job of coming close that they win certain concessions very conservative platform bob dole shows the running mates many of the liberal republicans and after gerald ford gives his acceptance speech he beckons to the rafters, poor Ronald Reagan is way up in nosebleed seats because of course the people that control the convention they didnt want him in a salubrious place for the cameras. In says he calls him ronnie or ron, ronald. What you come give a speech. This wasnt accidental . Well, the myth has it nancy reagan among others is propagated that this speech was completely spontaneous and he really didnt want to give it. There was a wonderful book that kind of told the behindthescenes story of the 1976 campaign by a guy who still active in washington victor gold. A real character. Its called pr as an president. Used to work for spiro agnes used to work for barry goldwater. He did this dyspeptic curmudgeon just ripped the curtain behind off from behind the campaigns in 1976 were run and detailed reporting on all the negotiations that went into making it look like Ronald Reagan was giving a spontaneous speech but actually giving the speech that was choreographed written down to the pretend that you dont want to give the speech. Lets look at the first part of this were gerald ford is calling Ronald Reagan to the stage and then i will get your reaction. Asking Ronald Reagan to come down and join him. Reagan is still signing autographs. He might not even be able to see the president. Hes shouting into the microphone. Would you come down and bring nancy, said the president. Come on down. They just delivered the alabama. Thats John Chancellor and david brinkley. Whats going on right here . This is the part where they Ronald Reagan abhe finally kind of wins the crowd accolades and his supporters were so loud he said okay am going to do it. And supposedly he said to one of them, i dont even know what im going to say. He gets into the batters box and hits one of the great grand slams in american a bob dole headed terrible a just because a few sides so angry at each other that at one point abbroke out after seven rockefeller ripped out of the one of Campaign Signs and have an one of the ragged people ripped up the phone from the new york delegation. It was an unbelievably chaotic convention. So hes waving to everybody, theres one of gerald fords sons, the next up in this will go to gerald ford introducing and then Ronald Reagan beginning to speak at that convention. We are all a part of this Great Republican family that will give the leadership to the American People to win on november 2, i would be honored on your behalf to have my good friend governor reagan to say a few words at this time. [applause] he obviously didnt have a a Ronald Reagan was an amazing speaker. He had an amazing gift. During the Goldwater Campaign people were amazed at how he could give a halfhour commercial stop exactly 30 seconds with his internal clock in his head he had this ability to see others seeing him and deliver exactly what would create the greatest emotional energy. Lets listen a little bit. I think here ladies and gentlemen im going to say fellow republicans here but those who are watching from a distance all those millions of democrats and independents who i know are looking for a cause around which to rally which i believe we can give them. The confidence in the face of a party that really seems on the ropes this is around the time when 18 percent of americans identifying themselves as republicans and political genius is to say we can bring in democrats. Whats the reaction on the part of the republicans to him versus jerry ford at that time . If you continue to watch this, basically the people in the audience look like they are at a religious revival. People are crying, people are Holding Hands they were swaying, gerald ford gave a good speech but Ronald Reagan gave a great speech. In fact, one of the people at my speaking agency when he said he finished the book and read this account of the speech and how people were crying and swaying, this is a guy whos not conservative, conservative or republican, he said he cried. This ability of Ronald Reagan to elicit a motion for people who dont see it coming is one of his most astonishing political gifts. Heres more of Ronald Reagan actually speaking. There are cynics who say the Party Platform is something that no one bothers to read and doesnt very often amount to much. Whether its different this time than its ever been before, i believe the Republican Party has a platform that is a banner of bold unmistakable colors with no pale pastel shades. [applause] [applause] [cheering] we have just heard a call to arms based on that platform and a call to us to really be successful in communicating and revealed to the American People the difference between this platform and the platform of the opposing party which is nothing but a revamp and reissue and a running of the late late show of the thing that we been hearing from them for the last 40 years. [cheering] were you hearing . Hes declaring victory. When he talks about the platform this is a platform his people were able to control. Lots of great gorilla fighting going on in the platform committees. When he says this is truly a platform of no pale pastels, gendered language which i dont think would be acceptable to us today he is referring back to the speech he gave at the 1975 conservative Political Action conference in which he said we need a party that is an imitation of the democrats but one that strikes its colors. Exactly the language he just used. Basically its him saying to his supporters, you think ford won, weve really won the future. Like you to win the war even though ford has won the battle. The other thing we hear is him reaching out to democrats. Of course we are familiar with the phrase reagan democrats. This idea that the white workingclass voters who are alienated by things like the Civil Rights Movement in the feminist movement could be folded into the republican tent was another one of his geniuses. The fact that he kind of sees this luminance in which he could strike a new vision of the Republican Party to the future really kind of shows the American Political Movement becoming Ronald Reagan. That was president ial historian Rick Perlstein his written extensively on president s nixon and reagan. His appeared on booktv 14 times and you can watch his programs at any time by visiting his website booktv and searching his name. As we continue our look about other programs of u. S. President s former director Lyndon Baines president ial library in 2017 he spoke about his biography of president s george hw and george w. Bush. We only had one other fatherson president in the history of the United States. John adams and John Quincy Adams was 24 years nearly a quartercentury near during the presidencies of those two men john adams was in his last 16 months of life when John Quincy Adams was in office he was in quincy massachusetts threeday stagecoach six days stagecoach ride away from washington. He really wasnt able to be in washington to be any kind of influence on his sons presidency. George hw bush was a spy 76 years old when his son took the office he had just been there eight years before and he was in a position to be a real influence on his sons life. This is a story that needed to be told and 41 agreed to do it if 43, which george w. Bush agreed to do the book. I wasnt sure whether he would say yes or no. I went up to dallas i knew george w. Bush a little bit he took the meeting and i was shocked that in the beginning of the meeting he said, ive decided this story needs to be told and youre the guy to do it. I was so unprepared i didnt have a tape recording he sat there and put his feet up on the desk and fingered an unlit cigar and started talking about his dad. I realize there was so much to him that was a mystery about his father, particularly his fathers storied early years when he went to war as an 18yearold, signed up for the navy to get in world war ii at 18 was in the Pacific Theater and shut down when he was 19 and his life was spared but the lives of his crewmates were not. Realize there was some purpose that he had that he was spared and his friends were not. He went to decided to forgo a family pass to the riches of wall street and go to the ballfields of odessa to make his way in the oil business became a husband at 21 became a father soon thereafter lost his daughter, his second child before he was 30 years old. These are amazing years that ushered him early in two manhood. George w. Bush really had it talk to him a lot about it. It was wonderful privilege to get this story out of both of them in the intimate way that they were willing to tell it. Just the process of getting people to unpack because for two figures who have this historic doorway they are not particularly given to reflection or psychologic rumination. Theyre very in the moment not subject we planned out theyve always rejected the idea of a dynasty, how did you get them and what are your favorite stories about getting interviews that you did to get them to reveal because they are remarkably candid you got them to really be reflective and candid and what were some of your favorite interviewing stories about it . What i liked was the intimacy. They realize the story needed to be told in some ways they were revealing things about each other that the others didnt know. It was the amazing thing i would tell sometimes 43 something his dad said he would say thats interesting i didnt know that. There as you said, they are famously circumspect george w. Bush sometimes when he was getting introspective would say this is sort of psychobabble but then he would tell me something that was particularly revealing. I remember one conversation with George Hw Bush in his very small office at kennebunkport. Getting hard of hearing it was just the two of us was in his wheelchair and her legs were touching behind the desk in his office and he was talking about what he wouldve done with the rock if he were president. When his son was president. This pretty heavy stuff. Of course thats the subject we all speculate about what 41 have done what 43 wouldve done . He said, in the final analysis i think i probably would have done that. Its hard to tell but i think so. He sort of like iconic at this stage in his life but i wondered, is that the answer from a former commanderinchief . Or the answer of a father who wants to protect his son . Im not sure he really would have done what his son did but i think he was being protective at that moment when he was thinking about his sons actions with the war in iraq i think he was being protected. The extraordinary loyalty and this is it kind of of a family contrivance, this is it kennedys dont cry, this is there is love really is a word they use a lot and loyalty and the family values not in the political expedient way of deploying that term but the real family values they embody talking about unconditional love from his father the character and service and humility really matter, civility matters the idea of responsibility that comes with power. Its all that flows from the father Prescott Bush. How do you codify that tradition in the family and then contrasted with some of the values we see in our Politics Today because to me it is stark. Its dramatically different. There is a family ethos. And its probable when youre around the bushes. I think Prescott Bush as you mentioned stands for civility and decency and putting service above self. That was something that was passed through the bush family. George hw bush talked often about the lessons they learned and his mothers need his father was a great influence and i dont know if he other felt like he measured up with his dad in many ways which is markable for the 41st president of the United States to say. But he talks frequently about his mother and she would often say, george, dont be a braggadocio. Talk about the team george. I dont care how many homeruns you hit. How did the team do . If you didnt win its a moot point. That humility thats really the hallmark of the bushes and so many respects is clearly lacking in today and not just from commanderinchief is lacking in public discourse. In the age of social media its inherently selfaggrandizing. But we talk about the fatherson talk about the relationship theres this great story that the elder bush told me about being with his son in midland when his son was about three years old when george w was three years old and apparently he erupted in a fit of temper about something and theyre walking along the streets george w. Bush starts flailing away almost cartoon style like a windmill his arms are just going 360 degree and is trying to hit his dad and his dad is keeping him at bay. But just putting his palm on his four head until he talkers himself out. Then he stops and they walked along again. In a way its a metaphor of a young and reckless days george w. Bush because in some ways he tried to land the blow with his death. And never did and ultimately they just walked on. His father always had faith he would do the right thing ultimately and wouldnt bring up that ill tempered moment. But also pressing on the fathering and the parenting because theres some wonderful details in the book. Moments where you could see hw leading by example. One example he walked off a summer job a couple days early and it made a big impression on w in terms of a parenting style. Its a future president parenting another future president. Is both relatable and his inherently historic. Goes back to the story i just mentioned as a metaphor. George w. Bush worked as a roughneck or in west texas and made a considerable amount of money. He agreed to work for eight weeks walked off the job in his seventh week because he wanted to spend time with his girlfriend and he goes to see his dad and his dad said, you didnt honor the commitment you made. Im ashamed of you. Im disappointed. George w. Bush walks out of his dad office he is disappointed in his father that was his fathers greatest weapon. To talk about how disappointed he was at any given point. He wasnt particularly emotional at any point he did it yell at his kids are his kids there was no corporate punishment but the expression of disappointment was the best thing he could do to sound a message that said straighten up and fly right. So that happens, he leaves his Fathers Office then he gets a call from his dad later on that afternoon and said, can you and kathy, his girlfriend, come to the astros game tonight applicable tickets . So he expressed disappointment but he also welcomed them back into the fold. That faith that he had his son to ultimately do the right thing never waned. And love that that is just what he carries with him. Another fascinating one with his mother barbara they have a family intervention because the boston for smoking at 17 and hiv ways in each dub ab barbara bush they take him out to dinner hes at this. 16 years old and its almond panic kennebunkport george w6 this is a big deal this never happens the parents never take me to dinner and it was an intervention barbara just said, you if you smoke what are you doing smoking . George hw says well, barb, you smoke too. [laughter] then the subject just kind of dies. [laughter] i love that, you cant lecture someone for doing something you do yourself. Theres a bit of yankee common sense which is lovely. Theres an amazing interview you did with the interview ab its really extraordinary in the book but were w really rejects it pretty pointed language the idea he was ever a prodigal son. And it was interesting. There are a lot of misconceptions about george w. Bush and about the relationship he has with his father but one is this expedient narrative that he was a prodigal son, the narrative the one who was never expected to amount to anything and certainly wouldnt be the political heir apparent. Thats just dead wrong. There are aspects of it that are true but he was quite auspicious in many respects, i got to clean up the language a little bit he said, i chased a lot of tail and drink a lot of whiskey but i was never the prodigal because i never love my family. And he never did. He always embraced his family. So and talked about that the fact that he made it on his own one of the things here almost expected to do as a bush is make it on your own. To achieve some success on your own, to leave the nest often strike out in a different place george hw and barbara bush did to make your own mark in one she could provide for your family to go into public life and put something above yourself. Ultimately george w. Bush does that but family there and he always loves and admires and i dont think he was this rebellious as some people think he was. Our offer programs about u. S. President s conclude with historians Kenneth Ackerman and David O Stewart contributed to cspan recent book that asks numerous historians to rank the president. They offer their thoughts on the rankings in april 2019 at the museum here in washington dc. Ask what you think the survey of the president as presented in this book is valuable . To me reading the survey over very closely the past couple days and prepared to be here today i thought it was very striking but it tells you about the country and our history. The pattern that jumped out at me when i thought was the way the modern president s are treated. The 12 president s who served since world war ii 1243 that clearly one in four those are represented very heavily at the top tier. Five out of the top 10 are modern president s. Seven out of the top 15 are modern president s. We are so lucky we have a string of such great people in the last few years. But there they were. When i first saw that i kind of wondered whether it was just a bias built in that we tend to overestimate exaggerated the good and the bad about people from our lifetime people we get to know by seeing them on tv every day but thinking about it it really represented something more. He represented how the presidency has changed except that modern president s are in fact much more consequential than early president s. None of the 32 president s served before the postworld war ii era ever had to deal with thermal nuclear war and the prospect of millions of people being killed by a Nuclear Exchange in a couple hours. None of them had to deal with the United States as a global power and having to deal with International Relations in the level we do now. Yes thereve always been newspapers and publicity and often negative publicity going back to the time of john adams but the modern president s have had to deal with the Television Age which has put their faith in our households every single day and resulted in the public knowing them in a very deep way. As results, they really are more consequential. How someone like James Garfield or Teddy Roosevelt or Rutherford Hayes would stack up if they were challenged the way the modern president s are is something we dont know its a very interesting thing to think about but they werent it was a different era. That really jumped out at me when i saw the list. David, on the importance. I think in a lot of ways these surveys are a mirror of our times as much as they are a reflection of what went before. You see a lot of sensitivity toward issues of race and inclusion Andrew Johnson was a virulent racist, he started out abdid the first survey in 1948 johnson was 19 33, he was doing okay. Since people have become much more conscious of his racist policies the way you really abetted and freed slaves after the civil war he dropped like a rock and i think appropriately. Andrew jackson who was terrifically significant president has taken a lot of heat for both his actions as slaveholder and slave trader but also his actions toward the Indian Tribes where he was quite ferocious and sending them off to the west and taking their lands. So it tells us a lot about who we are or who we think we are all want to be. And i think it runs the risk, ken has created a nice story for why we have so many modern president s that its right, im not so sure its right. I think it also reflects that we are pretty self obsessed and that president s like Andrew Jackson were incredibly important clearly change the country or change james j pope who acquired 40 of our landmass. There being forgotten and going away. I think thats a problem we have that our memories are not as good as they should be and its a reminder to those of us who write history that we need to preach the sermon a little bit and help keep these stories alive. Brian, you conducted all the interviews that appear in this book. Im wondering if seeing them all together did anything surprise you or stand out as you read it as one book. The beauty is you can go back and read what they had to say. Some of what they had to say and as susan said, archive allows you to go on and listen to the interviews. I listen to both of the interviews ive done with these gentlemen in preparation for this and they were fantastic. Not because of me because of them. Some people will look at this book is a book of precedents, i look at it as a book of president s but just his historically the fast abreu ab they spend weeks and years going over all the Little Details and if we didnt have historians we would have this wouldnt have this information. Sitting here me talking is driving me crazy i just assumed listen to these guys because they got stories to tell. Lets get back to this since your chapter is on garfield, struck by from the book notes that you did, you said that his assassination was one of the more misunderstood events in american history. Tell us why. A couple of things, first this, abthe man who shot James Garfield arguably he was killed by the doctors. He was hit by two bullets, one grazed his arm the other hit him in the back. There were a lot of people particularly in that era just after the civil war, a lot of people had gunshot wounds and lived lived to tell the story. But garfield died of infection and blood poisoning caused by doctors, examining his wound without washing their hands and without cleaning their instruments. The germ theory existed but it was still a new idea from france. It hadnt been totally adopted. But most doctors on the western frontier the civil war doctors who dealt with gunshot wounds knew that you dont examine a wound with your unwashed hands. There was direct testimony of that at the time. Even by the standards of the time it should not happen. The other thing i will just mention briefly, the garfield assassination was different from the others in the purpose of the assassination. John wilkes booth shot Abraham Lincoln in order to kill Abraham Lincoln. Lee Harvey Oswald shot john kennedy to kill john kennedy. ab what charles could tell was trying to do he had nothing personal against James Garfield, he liked the man, he he had met the man he met his wife. What he was trying to do was to reverse the election of 1880. He was not so much trying to get garfield out of office as to put someone else in office. He is trying to make Chester Alan Arthur and his circle of friends the president and ruling circle in the United States. Was a regime change. Thats a very scary thought when you dig about it and he was successful in doing it. Getting back to Andrew Johnson, im going to steal a question that susan asked earlier at mount vernon earlier this week. Abraham lincoln of course is ranked number one president. James buchanan who preceded him and Andrew Johnson came after him are consistently ranked the last two. How do you explain that . Lincoln is historical kryptonite. You dont want to be close to him. He had the greatest challenges of any president i think and did such a wonderful job its hard to look good next to that. Both buchanan and johnson were cosmically unsuccessful. Buchanan slid into war and almost did nothing to stop it. It was tragic. Thousands of americans killed during the war casualties would be 7 million. And johnson had a hard job and did it poorly. But it was a really hard job. And what the survey is based on if there was a category of relations with the press who would rank near the top or the bottom . There are stories about each president and how they related to the media and one of my favorites is Calvin Coolidge during his time that radio came into being and he did 22 speeches and for people who remember his image it would not have been terrific for television but its okay for radio and during that time he was on radio and the audience grow just like starting off with 3 million up at 100 billion but this exists. And stuck on press relations . I think kennedy was growing and charmed everybody but also the press and i do think of Franklin Roosevelt because he would have the whole White House Press corps into his office once a week its very effective to get to pull punches. This is what im very curious to see where our president is when the next pole comes out. [laughter] i agree kennedy and fdr following nixon but that current isnt an issue so that would be interesting to show you several hours of programs from our archives with the wellknown author tonight is awardwinning historian Doris Kearns Goodwin the author of seven books and has appeared on cspan and book tv over 60 times and is well known for her work on Abraham Lincoln in fact her book team of rivals was the inspiration for Steven Spielbergs film lincoln in 2012. Earning her phd at harvard so coming up with the end of the parents she discussed her entire body of work and took the were phone calls also will be showing you discussions from her books leadership and Turbulent Times and bully pulpit we will start with her jt 1995 appearance on this cspan series book notes in the hourlong interview she discussed franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt and the home front during world war ii. Her book, no ordinary time won the Pulitzer Prize for history. Here is historian Doris Kearns Goodwin. Doris Kearns Goodwin author of no ordinary time if you could have asked fdr or eleanor a couple of questions after all the work what would it be quick. With eleanor i would like to understand why she was unable h